View Full Version : Dangerously inaccurate information...
Sgt. Rock's article on 'what to carry, part 3' contains incorrect informtion about treating water with bleach.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=197423
The correct information:
"Can Clorox® Regular-Bleach be used to disinfect water?
Emergency Disinfection: When boiling water is not practical, water can be made potable by using Clorox® Regular-Bleach. Before the addition of the disinfectant, remove all suspended material by filtration or by allowing it to settle to the bottom. Decant the clarified contaminated water to a clean container and add 8 drops of Clorox® Regular-Bleach to one gallon of water (2 drops to 1 quart). Allow the treated water to stand for 30 minutes. Properly treated water should have a slight chlorine odor. If not, repeat dosage and allow water to stand an additional 15 minutes. The treated water can then be made palatable by pouring it between clean containers for several times. For cloudy water, use 16 drops of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water (4 drops to 1 quart). If no chlorine odor is apparent after 30 minutes, repeat dosage and wait an additional 15 minutes. Do not use scented or Splash-less Clorox® Bleaches for this purpose."
http://www.clorox.com/solutions_reg_bleach_faq.php
Johnny Swank
01-17-2007, 15:47
What exactly are your referring to? The amt per dose? I'm not getting why you refer to Rock's piece as "Dangerously inaccurate."
It says a "capful per quart" and doesn't mention the 30 minute wait period.
Hana_Hanger
01-17-2007, 16:06
yes that is the only thing I could spot as well...where Clorax mentions only 2 drops per quart
yes that is the only thing I could spot as well...where Clorax mentions only 2 drops per quart
I always thought that was the general rule... Maybe Sgt Rock uses a very small cap, such as on a Visene dropper!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-17-2007, 16:25
I've always used about 5 - 6 drops to a quart of water when using bleach (maybe more than needed, but I only treat suspect water so I want to be sure....). I'm assuming Scott believes that a capful of bleach might be poisonous or harmful in some way, but it would take considerably more than a capful per quart of water to harm anyone.
4eyedbuzzard
01-17-2007, 16:42
Chlorine bleach and Iodine are the poorest way of trying to ensure potable wate. While effective against most bacteria and viruses, they have not been proven effective against most parasites, notably Giardia. There are many variables involved, especially temperature, pH, etc.
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/ec/ec1431/
In fact, most people do carry their clorox in an eye dropper type container. No one carries a gallon jug of clorox in their pack, so the capful must refer to something like that. Worth clarifying though.
max patch
01-17-2007, 17:12
No one carries a gallon jug of clorox in their pack,
Hmmmm.......if MS treated his water w/clorox....
Johnny Swank
01-17-2007, 18:42
Alright - maybe clarifiying things a bit might help, but even as is this is hardly "dangerously inaccurate". While bleach might not be the most effective water treatment available under lab conditions, it's probably about as useful under real-world conditions on the AT as anything else. It's been shown that regular hygene practices are as important, if not moreso, that anything you're doing with your water.
dixicritter
01-17-2007, 18:47
I'll mention this to Rock tomorrow when I talk to him, he's been having connection issues with being able to access WhiteBlaze. That's provided I remember to ask him, otherwise, he might not get to this until he gets home next month.
I'll mention this to Rock tomorrow when I talk to him, he's been having connection issues with being able to access WhiteBlaze. That's provided I remember to ask him, otherwise, he might not get to this until he gets home next month.I hope there is no change in Sgt. Rock's date with the freedom bird, Dixi.:sun When my dad was in the Army the short timers used to set their hat on top of their boots by the door of their quarters to let everyone know just how short they were.:D
That's provided I remember to ask him, otherwise, he might not get to this until he gets home next month.
If he doesn't get it to it now, I imagine when he gets back next month...he'll have more important things to worry about than his whiteblaze articles.
I think he mentioned a shot of some kind of liquor at Dot's? Much more important! Seeing you is probably the very top of the list, too :)
It's been shown that regular hygene practices are as important, if not moreso, that anything you're doing with your water.
Yep. Listen to Mom. Wash those hands after doing #2 and before eating (and pour shared food into hands!) Much more effective than any $75 filter.
(Didn't treat my water once in New Mexico)
(Always washed my hands)
If he doesn't get it to it now, I imagine when he gets back next month...he'll have more important things to worry about than his whiteblaze articles.
I think he mentioned a shot of some kind of liquor at Dot's? Much more important! Seeing you is probably the very top of the list, too :)Sgt. Rock is not going to be happy to find out that Lone Wolf has taken the lead in the post count department.:D
dixicritter
01-17-2007, 19:37
Sgt. Rock is not going to be happy to find out that Lone Wolf has taken the lead in the post count department.:D
LOL trust me he'll catch back up
LOL trust me he'll catch back upConsidering the fact that you will get a MUCH needed break when he gets home, I'm sure you are right.;)
dixicritter
01-17-2007, 19:39
Seeing you is probably the very top of the list, too :)
Well I should hope so...LOL
Fiddleback
01-17-2007, 20:01
All other variables being the same, the increased concentration of bleach listed by SgtRock (capful per quart) should reduce the 'let stand' time requirement. Such a strategy works for chlorine dioxide treatments, presumably it will for bleach and other chemical treatments as well. Likewise, reducing the concentration and increasing the let stand time is a way to husband chemical water treatments such over long backpack trips. See Ryan Jordan's comments here, http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/klearwater_xinix_chlorine_dioxide_clo2_water_treat ment.html His reduced dosage for water standing overnight is a great idea.
None the less, bleach is not particularly effective against crypto...this from the EPA:
QUOTE When boiling is not practical, certain chemicals will kill most harmful or disease-causing organisms.
For chemical disinfection to be effective, the water must be filtered and settled first. Chlorine and iodine are the two chemicals commonly used to treat water. They are somewhat effective in protecting against exposure to Giardia, but may not be effective in controlling more resistant organisms like Cryptosporidium. Chlorine is generally more effective than iodine in controlling Giardia, and both disinfectants work much better in warm water.
You can use a non-scented, household chlorine bleach that contains a chlorine compound to disinfect water.
Do not use non-chlorine bleach to disinfect water. Typically, household chlorine bleaches will be 5.25% available chlorine. Follow the procedure written on the label. When the necessary procedure is not given, find the percentage of available chlorine on the label and use the information in the following table as a guide. (Remember, 1/8 teaspoon and 8 drops are about the same quantity.)
Available ChlorineDrops per Quart/Gallon of Clear WaterDrops per Liter of Clear Water
1% 10 per Quart - 40 per Gallon 10 per Liter
4-6% 2 per Quart - 8 per Gallon (1/8 teaspoon)2 per Liter
7-10%1 per Quart - 4 per Gallon 1 per Liter
(If the strength of the bleach is unknown, add ten drops per quart or liter of filtered and settled water. Double the amount of chlorine for cloudy, murky or colored water or water that is extremely cold.) END QUOTE http://www.epa.gov/safewater/faq/emerg.html
FB
Johnny Swank
01-17-2007, 20:04
How many confirmed cases of crypto have there been on the AT?
How many confirmed cases of crypto have there been on the AT?
Never mind the AT..how about the US, Canada and western Europe? There are about 3000 cases A YEAR reported in the US. Considering there are 300 million people in the US and most of these problems occur in municipal water supplies..well, draw your own conclusions.
From the CDC site:
Results: During 1999--2002, the total number of reported cases of cryptosporidiosis increased from 2,769 for 1999 to 3,787 for 2001 and then decreased to 3,016 for 2002.
You are more likely to see crypto in less devloped parts of the world, much less hiking a trail that sticks mainly to ridgelines in the woods.
Really folks..don't get too nervous about "goierms" (said in Brooklyn-ese), you are more likely to get sick off your or another hiker's poor hygene than "bad" water. Not saying "don't treat your water"...but don't get too wrapped up on a relatively minor part of hiking.
Finally, I suggest reading "America's finest news source" for this great article about crypto:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38753
Well I should hope so...LOL
I have a strong feeling that seeing the family just might be at the top of the list and that the WB articles rate a distant thirtieth or so. :)