View Full Version : Drinking spring water untreated
Programbo
01-17-2007, 20:24
Did anyone here NOT treat their water on their recent thru hikes (Or any regular trail hikers not treat)...And if so did you ever suffer any ill effects?....I saw a thread on here about treating water and it got me to thinking of my earlier hiking days and how I never treated water I got from the AT springs...Even back in the 70`s people talked of filtering or treating in various ways but most of the folks I met didn`t....Has the environment near the trails changed that much since then that now it is required or are people just more careful now?
Lone Wolf
01-17-2007, 20:27
I've hiked 16,000 miles of the AT and never treated or filtered water. Never been sick either. W T F is giardia?:)
Sgt. Rock put it best: It's all faith based. Most put their faith in chemicals or filters, some go without. Good judgement, hygiene and luck all matter.
humunuku
01-17-2007, 20:35
I've drank from Springs in the smokies for atleast the last 10 years without treating
I have filtered all water,,, thru my teeth,, for the last 20 yrs on the trail. Haven't been sick,,, yet.
RAT
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2007, 20:40
A lot of it is common sense.....is it coming out of a spring on a mountaintop in Vermont, or is it a muddy stream going thru or past a cowfield in Virginia?
I drink most of my water straight on the A.T., depending mainly on what kind of source it is, whether or not people have been walking thru it, camping near it, etc., and also, it depends a lot on the elevation.
But for most folks, it's probably wisest to err or the side of caution, and in most cases, it's probably best to treat most of your water.
70,000 folks might drink out of a particular source during any one season, and maybe only one guy will get sick from it.
But you sure don't want that one guy to be YOU.
I didn't treat running water off of rocks in the Penobscot River (Maine) 2 yrs. ago. No health problems.
About 10 yrs. ago in PA (Eagle Rock?) AT we collected water from a spring and didn't treat it. No health problems.
However, my regular practice is to treat water.
TJ aka Teej
01-17-2007, 20:48
I filter with no-see-um netting, just to keep the tadpoles out of the canteen.
I grew up on well water, and drank straight from Branch Brook for years growing up in Maine. Tacos have upset my tummy more than raw water ever has.
edit, adding: Wash your hands. That'll keep you healthier than filtering will, from what I've heard.
70,000 folks might drink out of a particular source during any one season, and maybe only one guy will get sick from it.
I would be that one guy :mad:
Listen to Jack... I treated sparingly, but a friend of mine was taken out for a week with giardia. What's worse than hugging a toilet? Hugging a privy.
I was in Peace Corps from 1983-1985. The first year i caught everything, even though i was very careful. My weight dropped from 200 to about 140 and the nurse told me if i lost another pound she was going to send me home. About a year into it, however, i wasnt sick any more. I quit worrying about the water, ate whatever i wanted and was fine. My body built up resistence to what was in the water (just as the people who lived there full time had) I havent treated water since, on the trail or in Mexico, and havent been sick. I do treat when out on the trail with kids, however. I figure i have had all the parasites but they arent hardly hardened off to the world yet.
The Weasel
01-17-2007, 22:59
I'm troubled by those who encourage, even by implication, not treating water on the trail, even from apparently "clean" sources. Dysentery (generically, any GI infection that results in diarrhea) is serious, and particularly for people with heart issues, diabetes, and challenged immune systems, and not everyone with such problems knows they have them. This is one area where anecdotal reporting ("I have never had problems") tends to be unreliable, since people who have had serious problems tend not to report them in places like WB. And "immunity" that can happen in fixed locations (such as Topcat relates, as a RPCV) isn't likely in a "moving target" such as going up the AT.
Since treating water is easy (chemically or by filtration), it's smart to do. Yes, it's one more chore, but: It's just not worth the risk to not do it.
The Weasel
Since treating water is easy (chemically or by filtration), it's smart to do. Yes, it's one more chore, but: It's just not worth the risk to not do it.
The Weasel
Chemicals and Filters are not 100% effective.
The Weasel
01-17-2007, 23:22
Chemicals and Filters are not 100% effective.
No, but they are vastly more effective than nothing. Purifiers are nearly perfect (including getting viruses), and chemicals have essentially the same efficacy as most municipal water treatment systems. Doing nothing is very risky. After my last post, I did a little current reading: Giardia can have up to 20% morbidity in some groups. That's a very high risk, particulary of a serious disease.
The Weasel
Chemicals and Filters are not 100% effective.This is the seat belt argument my ex-mother-in-law used. Because seat belts aren't 100% effective (people do die in car crashes while wearing seat belts) she said they were useless and people shouldn't bother using them. I told her that bathing does not remove 100% of the dirt and germs on her body so to be consistent maybe she should stop washing herself. (Clever comments like this is one reason she is now my ex-mother-in-law and her daughter is now my ex-wife.)
The Weasel
01-17-2007, 23:24
This is the seat belt argument my ex-mother-in-law used. Because seat belts aren't 100% effective (people do die in car crashes while wearing seat belts) she said they were useless and people shouldn't bother using them. I told her that bathing does not remove 100% of the dirt and germs on her body so to be consistent maybe she should stop washing herself. (Clever comments like this is one reason she is now my ex-mother-in-law and her daughter is now my ex-wife.)
Is she your ex-wife because she didn't like the comments, or because she didn't wash?
The Weasel
efficacy As a former test engineer, this was favorite word in the entire English language. (As a current mystery writer, my favorite word is now "conk.")
The Weasel
01-17-2007, 23:29
As a former test engineer, this was favorite word in the entire English language. (As a current mystery writer, my favorite word is now "conk.")
OK, Frosty, I'll rephrase:
What was the efficacy of soap, if any, on your ex-wife? Or did she conk out before she could submit to the testing?
The Weasel
the_iceman
01-17-2007, 23:36
I played Russian Roulette once. I pulled the trigger 5 times and nothing happened. Then.......................................
This is the seat belt argument my ex-mother-in-law used. Because seat belts aren't 100% effective (people do die in car crashes while wearing seat belts) she said they were useless and people shouldn't bother using them. I told her that bathing does not remove 100% of the dirt and germs on her body so to be consistent maybe she should stop washing herself. (Clever comments like this is one reason she is now my ex-mother-in-law and her daughter is now my ex-wife.)
Funny, I don't generally wear my seat belt either.:)
Almost There
01-17-2007, 23:46
It's simple...HYOH....do what you want and I'll do what I want...started out filtering, still carry it, but only filter when I think the source is questionable...my choice...granted I filter when my wife comes out with me...if she got sick I would never hear the end of it....and it would make me feel miserable that I possibly caused her to be in that situation. It's one thing if I make myself sick....another if I cause her to get sick.
orangebug
01-17-2007, 23:59
I do not treat my water. I used to filter and still carry Polar Pure as a wound treatment/antiseptic.
Morbidity means that some folks show symptoms. Immune suppressed folks should be cautious about anything they eat and drink, but I assume from the initial question that we are talking about the average healthy hiker who hales from the city.
That hiker is at more risk from his dog for exposure to Giardia. Even so, Giardia is a pretty self limiting condition, rarely occuring within a week of exposure. It is not a general gastroenteritis with nausea and vomiting, but more a problem of gas, cramping and episodic diarrhea. Typically, time or a bit of Flagyl are capable of ending the symptoms.
Not all that squirts is giardia. More common GI events occur from the same more common risks in the city: fecal/oral contamination of food or drink from poor hygiene. These events are more commonly accompanied with significant nausea and vomiting, as well as diarhea.
Virus exposures are pretty uncommon in the US and North America. Purification (the practice of filtering and use of a bleaching agent such as iodine) is rarely useful here. Bleaching is effective in standard conditions, temperatures and containers available in labs with high efficacy - but not perfect. Bleaching as performed by hikers is far from the standardized affairs seen in testing labs.
Marketing is a major factor in the popularity of water treatment. Fears of liability is another factor. No one is going to tell you not to treat your water for fear that if you got sick, you might bring a tort against the advisor. Recall that many GI epidemics on the trail have been traced back to taps rather than specific streams.
Pay your ante and take your chances however you decide to deal with water.
Funny, I don't generally wear my seat belt either.:)
No need. You're 24. You're immortal. ;)
Blue Jay
01-18-2007, 02:42
Although I would never do so, I do know a few people who have thrued without water treatment of any kind. At least be careful where you get it, as Jack has already said. Also to be on the safe side, feed the good bacteria in your stomach with Garlic and Yogert. Our insides are always at war with bad bacteria, most of the time the good guys win. I believe hiking can give the bad side some reinforcements, but that does not mean they automatically win.
Pokey2006
01-18-2007, 06:03
ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEATBELT!
But when it comes to treating SPRING water, just look up. Is there a road uphill? A privy? A horse trail? Many springs look OK at first, until you really look around. I've seen waaaay too many privys and horse trails waaaay too close to supposedly pristine mountain springs. Water from larger streams, ponds, etc. should be treated, I think. It would be a shame to have to end the hike prematurely because of the ill effects of contaminated water.
hopefulhiker
01-18-2007, 07:53
I drank untreated water about 10% of the time on the thru in 2005.. I could see and judge the source each time. It tasted great!
When I was a non-filterer I answered people that asked why I didn't filter with "the only way to be sure is to boil it" now that I filter I say "I just don't trust it" (the source) Back in the 70s no one used hand sanitizer now I take it everywhere. If filtering makes you feel better about your health "just do it".
A lot of it is common sense....
70,000 folks might drink out of a particular source during any one season, and maybe only one guy will get sick from it.
But you sure don't want that one guy to be YOU.
If the sampling is big enough some are bound to get sick. If its really big enough some may even die. But your first sentence makes the most sense.
I don't filter, ever, or seldom ever treat.. Georgia &North Carolina water on the AT is wonderful, clear and tasty
Lone Wolf
01-18-2007, 10:50
I drink out of ponds in Vermont without treating or filtering. I do add grape kool-aid though.:)
warren doyle
01-18-2007, 11:37
I have never treated the water I drink on the trail. I had a healthy nine-year relationship with Giardia (she was so soft and fluid in her movement) and then she left me and I had to say hello to Hemo Rhoid who was a real pain in the ...
I personally think it has a lot to do with your own comfort level with your own ability to judge safe/non-safe water sources. I was talking to Ed Speers a few months ago, and he said he never treats water on the AT, but, he's also traveled/hiked the world (including rain forests and jungles) due to his former job. I don't have that kind of outdoor experience, so I'm choosing to treat water. Like others have said before me, it's a matter of common sense and good judgement, but do what YOU are comfortable with.
saimyoji
01-18-2007, 13:28
When I was a non-filterer I answered people that asked why I didn't filter with "the only way to be sure is to boil it" now that I filter I say "I just don't trust it" (the source) Back in the 70s no one used hand sanitizer now I take it everywhere. If filtering makes you feel better about your health "just do it".
Yep. Marketing. Suckers.