View Full Version : Positive and negative changes in last 5 years
Desert Lobster
01-19-2007, 16:19
concerning the actual trail, the surrounding communities and establishments, the hikers themselves, etc.? Shelters come and gone, relocations, businesses and AT supporters coming and going, encroachments of civilization, areas being set aside to protect the AT corridor, trends amongst hikers, etc.?
Just for example, Shaws being gone being a negative.
mountain squid
01-19-2007, 16:45
:confused: Shaw, himself is gone:( , but Shaw's Lodging is still there. I had a very positive experience there last year and was very pleased (breakfast included). So, I think that Shaws is a positive.
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Sleepy the Arab
01-19-2007, 18:01
One of the best relocations happened around 2002, just south of Double Spring Shelter (the second one), where the trail was routed through the Osborne Tract. What a fantastic walk!
Under bad relocations, I'd say the one just after Humpback rocks in Virginia takes the number one spot. Instead of three miles from point A to point B, the trail was lengthened to 5.6 in a long, winding roundabout that just stinks.
I'm also not fond of the new Mega-shelters such as the ones at Sassafras Gap and Birch Run. Small, subtle and out of sight should be the shelter mantra.
(Insert Lone Wolf saying "shelters are dirty, infested mouseholes" in 3...2...1...)
bigmac_in
01-19-2007, 18:08
One of the best relocations happened around 2002, just south of Double Spring Shelter (the second one), where the trail was routed through the Osborne Tract. What a fantastic walk!
Under bad relocations, I'd say the one just after Humpback rocks in Virginia takes the number one spot. Instead of three miles from point A to point B, the trail was lengthened to 5.6 in a long, winding roundabout that just stinks.
I'm also not fond of the new Mega-shelters such as the ones at Sassafras Gap and Birch Run. Small, subtle and out of sight should be the shelter mantra.
(Insert Lone Wolf saying "shelters are dirty, infested mouseholes" in 3...2...1...)
Now THAT'S funny..........
Jester2000
01-19-2007, 18:20
The existence of White Blaze is definitely a positive thing in the past five years. Oh, also, I'm even more handsome than I was five years ago, which I know is hard to believe, but it's true.
Appalachian Trail Conference became Appalachain Trail Conservancy.
Brrrb Oregon
01-19-2007, 21:29
The existence of White Blaze is definitely a positive thing in the past five years. Oh, also, I'm even more handsome than I was five years ago, which I know is hard to believe, but it's true.
Sorry, but we haven't met...
How many degrees of freedom were available on the looks? :-?
Lone Wolf
01-19-2007, 21:37
(Insert Lone Wolf saying "shelters are dirty, infested mouseholes" in 3...2...1...)
nah. it is what is is. i dislike wooden boxes. i want folks to lay out on mama earth . when its rainin too
Oh, also, I'm even more handsome than I was five years ago, which I know is hard to believe, but it's true.
Just how bad did you look 5 years ago? :D
Desert Lobster
01-19-2007, 22:28
Did Mrs. Shaw move away? I thought the son was going to sell the place?
The Scribe
01-19-2007, 22:41
So far, it sounds like the tradition has carried on.
TJ aka Teej
01-20-2007, 08:43
Did Mrs. Shaw move away?
Pat Shaw, after decades of hard work, has retired and moved out of state to live with relatives. The new owners are from Monson, and are fine folks.
Big Dawg
01-20-2007, 09:58
i dislike wooden boxes.
have you always felt this way, or was there a time when you stayed in those wooden boxes, had bad experiences, and eventually wrote em off? just curious..... :-?
Jan LiteShoe
01-20-2007, 10:05
i want folks to lay out on mama earth . when its rainin too
Earl Schaeffer felt that way too. Felt there was some significant connection. His small shelter in PA has no floor, you sleep in the dirt. I forget the name of that shelter, but it's next to the large new Peters shelter (I believe, CRS disease).
:)
Nightwalker
01-21-2007, 13:06
I thought the son was going to sell the place?
He did. He now has two large 4WD trucks and two snowmobiles in his yard. :sun
I really enjoyed Shaws. The new owners are fantastic. Never was there when Keith was alive, though.
BlackCloud
01-22-2007, 11:51
All negative. Period.
All negative. Period.
Except for the advent of college courses that teach hiking & backpacking. ;)
Blackcloud. Fill your cup up til it flows over. It's half empty.
Sleepy the Arab
01-22-2007, 12:50
I forgot to add that Ron Haven and Miss Janet have both done wonders to their respective towns of Franklin and Erwin in the past five years.
Hanover has gone the other way with the loss of the frats that would allow hikers to spend the night (although the "unofficial" places are aleviating some of the burden).
The ATC's new focus on protecting the trail corridor for future generations is a great move. They have a daunting task before them, and could use all the help any us us would be willing to provide.
Blackcloud. Fill your cup up til it flows over. It's half empty.
I don't think he has a cup. :eek:
I don't think he has a cup. :eek:He has one, problem is that someone poked a hole in the bottom. "Screwed at every opportunity";)
TJ aka Teej
01-22-2007, 18:42
Positive: Millions of new people hiked on the AT.
Negative: Millions of new people hiked on the AT.
:D
Very positive: www.MATLT.org
warren doyle
01-22-2007, 19:36
Positive changes in the last five years?
1) Less land being taken from common folk by eminent domain.
2) About 10% of the information superhighway.
Negative changes in the last five years?
1) Filtering from all water sources.
2) The information superhighway which makes it easier for people to 'talk the walk' before they even 'walk the walk'.
3) More thru-hikers not fording the Kennebec.
4) Party 'tribes' on the trail.
TJ aka Teej
01-22-2007, 20:35
I forgot!
Extremely positive: The new ALDHA leadership!
Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:42
Bravo, Teej. :D
Thanks for reminding us of this.
Negative changes in the last five years?
1) Filtering from all water sources.
2) The information superhighway which makes it easier for people to 'talk the walk' before they even 'walk the walk'.
3) More thru-hikers not fording the Kennebec.
4) Party 'tribes' on the trail.
Regarding item 3 -- hasn't it long been the unofficial or semi-official recommendation of ATC that hikers not try to ford the Kennebec? Isn't that Steve Longley's role? When did the "ferryman" start doing his canoe shuttles across, and why?
IIRC, at least one thru-hiker from long ago died while trying to ford the Kennebec.
Desert Lobster
01-22-2007, 20:54
What's your point? Stop being a weenie and ford the river!
Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:57
Apparantly, Terrapin, there are people that think that hikers no longer risking drowning in the Kennebec is not a positive thing.
I wonder about some people........ :-?
Just a Hiker
01-22-2007, 21:14
Hello, First of all, Warren Doyle clearly didn't hike in Maine in 2006. If he had, he would have seen the Kennebec running as hard as it ever has. Not only couldn't a hiker ford it, it was barely crossable in a canoe. Steve Longley really earned his money in '06. And why is Steve Longley there? Because that's the official white blaze route. Of all people, you should know that Warren Doyle. That was dangerously careless of you to put what you wrote on this thread. Some impressionable hiker could read what you wrote and jump right in the Kennebec and get himself killed.
I know I got off the topic of good and bad in the past 5 years, so I'll just say this........Tuna in foil packs!!
Take care.........Just Jim
Negative changes in the last five years?
1) Filtering from all water sources.
Been going on a lot longer than the last 5 years. Well documented even by Roland Mueser (class of '89.)
2) The information superhighway which makes it easier for people to 'talk the walk' before they even 'walk the walk'.Why does this bother you? Ignore it. Pure information is hardly ever a bad thing. Or does the internet challenge your role as the leading trail "educator?"
4) Party 'tribes' on the trail.But haven't you been leading groups along the trail since time immemorial? Isn't that what you do? It must be the partying you object to, not the tribes. ;)
What's your point? Stop being a weenie and ford the river!
Why don't you show up some afternoon and show us how it's done...i mean...how to drown. Yup, gotta wear the backpack too so you'll sink faster!
Simple question. How many AT thru-hikers have ever drowned from fording the Kennebec?
warren doyle
01-22-2007, 21:34
Q:Simple question. How many AT thru-hikers have ever drowned from fording the Kennebec?
A: To the best of my knowledge, only one. However, I don't know whether she was a thru-hiker or a section hiker. That's at least four less than the number of thru/section hikers murdered on the AT and equals the number of intoxicated hikers killed on/near the AT.
And don't forget that there are Snapping Turtles:eek:(carefull don't step on one they bite and don't let go easily:-?) and 4' long eels in that Kennebec too:eek:
I relocated about 100 feet of trail I maintain about five feet uphill to get it out of the mud and on to dry ground. I didn't mean to but I think I made the walk from Georgia to Maine about six or eight feet longer. On a more serious note, Miss Janet going on her own and away from the place she used to work at is a very huge improvemment.The next change would be to see Baltimore Jack open a dry no booze/no smoking hostel in Hanover and have Warren Doyle the main speaker at the dedication of "The Lone Wolf Shelter" at the Tenn. Va. State line on the AT. Another intresting change would be if Jester entered the priesthood and became the pastor of the chapel in the Doyle Hotel.
WalkinHome
01-22-2007, 21:45
Well we will just have to stop the traditional, historically correct and safe way to cross the Kennebec provided you Warren Doyle let us know when we have reached the appropriate number of drownings so we can start the ferry service again eh?
Q:Simple question. How many AT thru-hikers have ever drowned from fording the Kennebec?
A: To the best of my knowledge, only one. However, I don't know whether she was a thru-hiker or a section hiker.
I remember it well even though it was years ago, she was on older thru hiker. However, many people die in that section of river because they are caught by supprise by rising water when they open theHarris Dam which happens, usually at e different time every morning. I had a good friend drown there while fishing a couple of years sgo. Most thru hikers either take the canoe or cross very early in the morning that is the safest time,
Bad thing, not sure of the date but maybe fits: that cursed mini-Formula-One race track just south of Falls Village, CT. There's no wilderness with those kinds of noises. Ridiculous. Tragic.
TJ aka Teej
01-22-2007, 22:40
I remember it well even though it was years ago, she was on older thru hiker.
Alice Ferrence, 1985. The next season's Philosopher's Guide was dedicated to her.
When I first got off the Portland-Quebec bus in Caratunk back in '73 there was a notice board in front of the Store/Post Office by the payphone with the numbers of several people who'd take you across. A lady getting her mail drove me up the road a bit, and I got a canoe ride across the Kennebec from a girl (wicked pretty girl, last name Neptune) who wouldn't let me help paddle.
I remember reading an old poster in a shelter (Pierce Pond?) about fording, that you should call ahead from the Camps, that if you do ford how to watch up-stream for logs, how to make a raft, and such. I've forded 9 times since then. I've even spent a few nice afternoons at the ford just swimming.
After all that, I say take the free canoe ride.
If someone, posing as an authority, tries to imply that fording is safe, or easy, or the only 'real' or 'pure' way to cross, they're either ignorant, a liar, or both.
max patch
01-22-2007, 23:07
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking." ~ J.C. Watts
I hadn't noticed your sig before. Interesting.
Apparantly, Terrapin, there are people that think that hikers no longer risking drowning in the Kennebec is not a positive thing.
I wonder about some people........ :-?
What's interesting to me is that (I assumed) this issue was already long settled, at least sixteen years ago, even tho the thread relates specifically to changes in the last five years. It really messes my head to have to agree with you, Jack. But Warren's sense of time is suspect. Maybe he missed the "last five years" part.
warren doyle
01-22-2007, 23:42
Although the drowning happened in 1985, I think the % of hikers fording the Kennebec has decreased every year (including the last five years 2001-2006). I also think the % of hikers not treating their water has also decreased the past 21 years (including the last five years 2001-2006). Long distance AT hikers who don't treat their water and don't ford the Kennebec have become a rarity.
I answered the question that started this thread.
I also think the % of hikers not treating their water has also decreased the past 21 years (including the last five years 2001-2006). Long distance AT hikers who don't treat their water and don't [sic] ford the Kennebec have become a rarity.
The percentage of those not treating water was 13% in 1989 (Mueser.) It was a statistical rarity back then, and it's even rarer now. Wow, that's really sad.
BTW, I don't think you meant the 2nd "don't" in the paragraph. I got to do lots of (wonderful) fording of cold streams in Maine, so I hardly felt deprived taking a ride across the Kennebec. We'd had a great night at Pierce Pond, our car was waiting at Caratunk... I was in no hurry to get across.
TJ aka Teej
01-23-2007, 07:20
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking." ~ J.C. Watts
I hadn't noticed your sig before. Interesting.
Old Fhart used that quote the other day, and when no one was looking I stole it :D
Didn't J.C. Watts lose his seat in the US Senate for doing something dubious?
Nevermind, found it, he was a Rep and decided not to run... Shows you how much i know!
icemanat95
01-23-2007, 09:23
Nevermind, found it, he was a Rep and decided not to run... Shows you how much i know!
Watts was widely regarded as one of the more ethical people in Congress, though he wasn't without controversy.
He ran under the promise that he would serve no more than 2 terms and then retire. His constituents kept him on for four. He retired over popular protest.
A lot of folks consider him a pretty solid presidential hopeful should he decide to re-enter politics.
Watts was decidedly conservative in his outlooks and refused to join the Congressional Black Caucus, causing a great deal of controversy for the decision.
You could always count on Watts to tell you what he thought straight out, in plain language. I hope he returns to politics.
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 13:06
TJ aka Teej-"Old Fhart used that quote the other day, and when no one was looking I stole it.:D " Perfectly ok as long as you leave the food on my table alone!;)
The AT is not a wilderness experience...
saimyoji
01-23-2007, 14:47
The AT is not a wilderness experience...
WB on the other hand can be. :eek: :D
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 15:59
WD-"Negative changes in the last five years?.......3) More thru-hikers not fording the Kennebec."
'Although the drowning happened in 1985, I think the % of hikers fording the Kennebec has decreased every year (including the last five years 2001-2006)."
Here are the accounts of thru hikers from Vol 1 of 'Hiking The Appalachian Trail', as opposed to Warren’s “ferry” tale which is revisionist garbage. This has been posted here before but Warren conveniently ‘forgets’ it and repost his version, that has nothing to do with truth, every chance he gets. The traditional way to get across the Kennebec River has always been in a boat or canoe.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Gene Espy 1951 “When I saw the Kennebec river in Maine I thought I might have some trouble crossing it. There was no bridge: only two small boats, one on each side of the river.”
Grandma Gatewood 1955, 1957, 1964 “…when she reached the Kennebec River at Caratunk. Waiting with a canoe to take her over………”
Dorothy Laker 1957 “I arrived at the Kennebec River in time for the meeting at 11:00 A.m.” , 1962 “The boat wasn’t due until the next morning……………”, 1964 “When I asked them how the Kennebec was crossed now, They said they had built a raft.”
Betty & Walter Boardman 1957 “Then we hiked to the point where the trail crossed the [Kennebec] river, piled gear and ourselves into the boat………..”
Owen F. Allen 1960 “They put a canoe into the water and took us across the river, one at a time.”
Chuck Ebersole 1964 “………we decided to build a raft.” “The river was rising-fast! I looked upstream. What a sight! I saw a surging crest of water bearing down on us.”
Raymond Baker 1964 “An expert with a canoe, he negotiated the swift current without mishap.”
Garnett W. Martin 1964 “….boated Martin across Kennebec River September 20, 1964…….”
Jim Shattuck 1966-67 “Sig, Joe, and I were ferried by canoe across the Kennebec River.”
Howard E. Bassett 1968 “The camp owner’s wife….. took me as far as Bingham….I was soon riding in his car to Caratunk.”
Elmer L. Onstott 1969 “I made arrangements with the owners to take me to Bingham”
Bill O’Brien 1969 “”The men returned with a canoe and paddled across the river.”
Albert Field 1969 “We called a man in Caratunk who owned a boat and arranged for him to pick us up………..”
Andrew J. Giger 1969 “We put the pack in the canoe and start across.”
Ed Garvey 1970 “I am a strong swimmer and could have swum across easily enough without a pack, though I would have ended up far downstream. With a forty pound pack it was a different story.” ………””He gave me a ride all the way to Bingham.” NOTE: I met Ed getting out of the canoe in 1990
Margaret & Bump Smith 1970 “……..for $5 we were transported in an aluminum rowboat across the Kennebec.”
Art Smith 1971 “When I was about 50 feet out into the river I decided to turn back, and when I reached the shore I was glad I did. Looking out across the river I saw scores of logs where there had been only a few of them two minutes before. ……..The surging current reminded me of how easily I could have been washed downstream……”
James R. Wolf 1971 “I wanted to tell these hikers about my ferry arrangements………..”
Bruce Balderson 1972 “At one point I slipped and went under, but managed to hold onto my pole. I finally got out of the main flow of the current and made my way to sure. The pack had gone under water several times and most of my equipment, including my sleeping bag, was wet.”
TJ aka Teej
01-23-2007, 16:20
The first time Doyle attacked me here on WhiteBlaze was after I informed in a post that boats were available at Caratunk before the ATC began the free ferry service in the mid-80s. He claimed I didn't know what I was talking about since "he was there and I was not"...
Lone Wolf
01-23-2007, 16:22
fording the kennebec is fun. i highly reccomend it.
Jack Tarlin
01-23-2007, 18:44
In attempting to downplay the risks of fording the Kennebec by pointing out that he "only" knows of one hiker fatality there, Mr. Doyle is neglecting to mention that there have been lots of close calls. Several hikers have given up their backpacks to the river instead of giving up their lives. If you want to hear some scary close-call stories, talk to Steve Longley.
Mr. Longley, incidentally, knows this stretch of the river better than anyone alive. It should be noted that it is his considered opinion that fording the Kennebec is a risky and foolhardy thing to do, and that for anyone to encourage others to do so, especially people who may have no knowledge of the river or the places most suitable for fording, is a truly reckless and irresponsible thing to do.
The ATC, the Maine A.T. Club, and Mr. Longley are all in complete agreement on this matter: Fording the Kennebec is a dangerous, and potentially life-threatening thing to do, and anyone who tells you otherwise is NOT giving particularly good advice.
Good Trail "educators" generally refrain from cheerleading things that can get someone killed.
Programbo
01-23-2007, 18:47
Going back 5 years isn`t far enough for major change..Now 30 years........ :-?
Going back 5 years isn`t far enough for major change..Now 30 years........ :-?
That was my impression also. Of the changes I've seen (and there have been many) I can't say which ones occured over any particular time frame. Eg., when did hiking poles become popular? When (and to what extent) did folks start hiking the AT with "light" and "ultralight" packs?
In attempting to downplay the risks of fording the Kennebec by pointing out that he "only" knows of one hiker fatality there, Mr. Doyle is neglecting to mention that there have been lots of close calls. Several hikers have given up their backpacks to the river instead of giving up their lives. If you want to hear some scary close-call stories, talk to Steve Longley.
Mr. Longley, incidentally, knows this stretch of the river better than anyone alive. It should be noted that it is his considered opinion that fording the Kennebec is a risky and foolhardy thing to do, and that for anyone to encourage others to do so, especially people who may have no knowledge of the river or the places most suitable for fording, is a truly reckless and irresponsible thing to do.
The ATC, the Maine A.T. Club, and Mr. Longley are all in complete agreement on this matter: Fording the Kennebec is a dangerous, and potentially life-threatening thing to do, and anyone who tells you otherwise is NOT giving particularly good advice.
Good Trail "educators" generally refrain from cheerleading things that can get someone killed.
You really need to know the UPS and DOWNS of this river before attempting a FORD, that means you should have spent some time on it's banks,spring .summer, fall etc.. If you listen to WD and LW and others who encourage this practice then you are at RISK of a ride you'll never forget:eek: If one wants to take it upon themselves to risk a FORD, i'm ok with that, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for advising others to do so no matter how cool I think it is:rolleyes:
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 19:54
Going back 5 years isn`t far enough for major change..Now 30 years........ The point is that there has NEVER been a change on crossing the Kennebec like WD 'claims', not in 5 years, ,not in 30, and not in 50. The traditional and accepted way to cross the Kennebec has always been in a boat, canoe, or on a raft.
It is also a fact that some people need to compensate for their insecurities, or make themselves feel more macho, by doing something extremely foolish (or illegal in some cases) and claiming others are weenies for not following their example. Sad but true.
If you want the truth, check what the ATC, the Ferryman, or others who aren't pushing an agenda have to say. The references I quoted also support this.
The first time Doyle attacked me here on WhiteBlaze was after I informed in a post that boats were available at Caratunk before the ATC began the free ferry service in the mid-80s. He claimed I didn't know what I was talking about since "he was there and I was not"...
Warren may have been there but I lived there. My dad and his friend bought a house in Caratunk about 1945 and we spent every summer there. In 1955 when they built The Harris Dam that caused the crazy changes in water levels in Caratunk I drove my grandmother to the dedication. In the 1940's the Caratunk store and post office was run by a 90 year old man, the oldest postmaster in America to this day. We were well aware of the Applachian Trail and there was always a boat or two available to take any hiker across, Of course before the log drives ended in 1976 we also had to deal with massive rafts of logs as well as high water. Sometimes in the spring the river would have solid logs from shore to shore and up and down river for many miles. When the logs were running crossing usually was not an option and a hiker would get a ride from Pierce Pond camps to Bingham and then go to Thompson's restrauant and find someone who was going to Caratunk of the Forks and hitch a ride. As for the boat, I don't know who it belonged to but it was there. There were only about 50 men living in town and everyone had a canoe. The spot where the trail met the Kennebec was visable from just north of town where the district fire warden had a camp and when a hiker was spotted on the other shore someone would go to the store and find someone to go "fetch" the hiker. Southbounders only had to stop at the store and find someone to take them across. I had family in Caratunk so have been close to the town all my life. No one ever "had" to swim the river but many bacame impatient and did. I have waded across the Kennebec many times but I would never reccomend it to someone with a full pack who was unaware when the next water release from Harris Dam might be. I have lost several friends on that river to drowning and can tell you from personel experience that it often will rise three feet in less than fifteen minutes. When the dam is open the river flows ar a rate between 4500 and 15,000 cubic feet per second, Figure that a cubic foot of water weighs six pounds and it doesn't take a math whiz to tell you that crosing with that weight of water pushing is impossible. When the dam is closed the river flows at abpot 300 cfs and at the Caratunk crossing there are times the river isn't over three feet deep but unless you know what you are doing take the damn canoe, you will like Steve, he is a nice fellow. Yes Warren, in the days before the MATC paid ferry service the people of Caratunk did a real nice job serving the needs of hikers and I WAS THERE.
Biggest change in the past 5 years is the internet.
People read about others' adventures, which flavor how their own hikes unfold.
Fewer surprises. Fewer "discoveries".
In the days before the MATC paid ferry service the people of Caratunk did a real nice job serving the needs of hikers and I WAS THERE.
In 1983 the people of Caratunk (one of them, anyway) served the need at $8.00 a head!
.
In 1983 the people of Caratunk (one of them, anyway) served the need at $8.00 a head!
Can't beat that! What is a life worth?
Over the last 5 years(positive) more thru hikers are completing the journey.:)
Fewer surprises. Fewer "discoveries".
Nah. Just different ones. That great Rodale anthology by James Hare was published in 1975, eight years before your thru. 2000+ pages from about 40 journals. If you'd read that mother from cover to cover, you'd be at least as wise as any thru-hiker wannabe on WhiteBlaze.net. All it took was a trip (or several) to your town's public library.
Biggest change in the past 5 years is the internet.
People read about others' adventures, which flavor how their own hikes unfold.
Fewer surprises. Fewer "discoveries".
More anticipation. :clap
Also fewer negative surprises, of course.
That great Rodale anthology by James Hare was published in 1975 ... 2000+ pages from about 40 journals. If you'd read that mother from cover to cover, you'd be at least as wise as any thru-hiker wannabe on WhiteBlaze.net. All it took was a trip (or several) to your town's public library.
Did that before my hike in 1980.;) Both the Reading Public Library and Wernersville Public Library had a set. The set at Wernersville was donated by a member of BMECC in memory of her late husband, who was an avid hiker and club member. There were trail angels aplenty in those days!
Excellent information on how hikers have crossed the Kennebec River over the years. Information provided by Moxie, especially informative. Thanks everyone.
Perfectly ok as long as you leave the food on my table alone!;)You gonna finish those fries?
Q:Simple question. How many AT thru-hikers have ever drowned from fording the Kennebec?
A: To the best of my knowledge, only one. However, I don't know whether she was a thru-hiker or a section hiker. That's at least four less than the number of thru/section hikers murdered on the AT and equals the number of intoxicated hikers killed on/near the AT.
Quite a few more people die from car accidents than from lightning strikes. However, I would still avoid walking in open fields during thunderstorms.
A Long distance AT hikers who don't treat their water and don't ford the Kennebec have become a rarity.
So why is this a negative?
Last time I checked, it was not yet illegal to ford the Kennebec or drink straight from a spring. Therefore, those who want to do those things can, and those who would rather not, don't have to. Choice is good. :D
Perfectly ok as long as you leave the food on my table alone!;)
You gonna finish those fries?
Well, if TOF doesn't want them and you can't eat them all Frosty, they are looking pretty good to me! I'd hate to see them go to waste on a bunch of pigs!:D
Please overlook my last post. All this talk about hiking makes me hungry.:o
The Old Fhart
01-24-2007, 07:25
Shades of Gray-"Well, if TOF doesn't want them and you can't eat them all Frosty, they are looking pretty good to me! I'd hate to see them go to waste on a bunch of pigs!:D" If you read the "Hiking the Appalachian Trail for a good cause" thread, there are quite a few PETA folks who would rather feed the pigs than people, or especially some bozo!;)