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Wolf - 23000
01-20-2007, 17:42
Has anyone notice that some “hikers” all they do is attack others either here on line or on trail. In some situation some will straight out make things up just to prove their point. When confronted they can only respond, “well I heard ….” Or “well I heard from a reliable source”. It can get really annoying. It usual aimed at hikers who have done more then the average thru-hiker.

For example, recently Warren Doyle posted a thread for anyone interested in joining him to hike w/van support. It not my cup of tea and most people will decline his offer but several post were just straight out personal attack. Saying Warren and party were banned from a hostel or his Baltimore Jack was his evil twin. Just dumb things like that just so someone can get off. I know BJ has been attacked several times.

I know even myself on several times were attacked by straight out made up B.S. When I have someone posting I attacks about my winter hike in Maine or I gave others a bad vibe because I don’t like talking about equipment. I’m also straight out board to death of the subject.

Grow up people! If someone does come to you with gossip, ask them if they were their. If not tell them to grow up. There too many BS rumors that go on here and on trail that its hurting the experience!

Wolf

Jack Tarlin
01-20-2007, 17:54
1. Wolf, thanx for the support, but I've gotten fairly thick skinned over the
years.
2. That Mr. Doyle and his group are no longer welcome at Kincora Hostel due
to their behavior while there is a matter of record.
3. I was accused of being Minnesota Smith's evil twin and not Warren's. In
truth, I'm not sure which is the least pleasant option.
4. At least Smitty, whatever else his sins, doesn't steal, at least not as far
as I know.
5. Have a nice day!

Frosty
01-20-2007, 19:27
2. That Mr. Doyle and his group are no longer welcome at Kincora Hostel due
to their behavior while there is a matter of record.I've never seen an actual record of their not being welcome, but I know what you are talking about. Bob told me a year ago know that some of one of Warren's group the previous year (2005) made breakfast and left without cleaning the dishes one morning. Unsatisfactory for sure, especially as his trail work was delayed while he cleaned the dishes himslef. And as someone who opened his own place up to hikers, I can see how something like that will really annoy you, even years later.

But at some point, we have to say we have beaten this horse to death.

To bring this up month after month, for two years ... Is it really about the dishes that weren't washed? I've been in a lot of places with common kitchens and I can tell you that this is not an uncommon occurance. That doesn't make it right, but it hardly deserves the press the incident has been given.

Surely hikers did this and worse to you in Hanover, and you haven't been posting their names over and over on WB. Doyle wasn't even at Kincora at the time. I know he should be held respsonisble for the actions of his group, but what does this have to do with his offer of a free shuttle?

Jack Tarlin
01-20-2007, 19:42
Um, Frosty.....

Not to interrupt you or anything, but I didn't bring up Kincora. Smith did. And you're right, it has nothing to do with Mr. Doyle offering a shuttle service, so Smith's comments were out of place. But then again, ripping off movie theaters is kind of off-topic, too, but that didn't prevent Mr. Doyle from going on at some length on why he was justified in doing this. And you're right, the matter of Warren's thievery has indeed been beaten to death over and over. One would think everyone knew all about this by know, and we should find something else to discuss. If only Doyle himself would stop bringing this theft up, stop bragging about it, and stop defending his "right" to act this way, maybe people would stop taking him to task for it. If you're tired about hearing about this subject, Frosty, there's a simple remedy: Write to Mr. Doyle and tell him that coming to Whiteblaze and advocating theft is really uncool and he should cease and desist.

Then maybe you won't have to read about it anymore, OK?

Just a Hiker
01-20-2007, 20:06
Hello,

I just had a few words on jealousy and gossip. I honestly don't see a lot of jealousy on the trail, but there is always gossip on the trail and there always will be. Maybe its motivated by jealousy but I doubt it.
In here, however, it's a different story. I think its because we are a small select group of people who make up the ''hiker culture'', and we only see each other on the trail and at occasional gatherings. Its not like the rest of the world where we see each other a lot, and when we get on WB, we tend to tell our true feelings about issues and people. I think we do this because we don't want to start trouble on the trail, but in here things get more cutthroat. I think it's in here where the gossip gets out of hand and people get their feelings hurt. But on the trail everything is all good the way it should be. So maybe it's good that we fight a lot on WB; I think its like hiker therapy.
Anyway, take care all

Just Jim

rickb
01-20-2007, 20:10
Of all the people on Whiteblaze who I would trust with a box of uncounted $100 bills, Warren would be very high on my list.

If given the chance to entrust his own such box with Warren vs. a person selected at random from this list, my bet is Jack would also go with Warren.

Jack's characterizations are just so much bombast.

Jester2000
01-20-2007, 20:15
You know, Jim, I think you're not too far off base. At the last ALDHA Gathering, there was a motley collection of instigating whiteblazers together in one gigantic Redneck-supplied dome tent (which, I believe, is one of the few manmade objects visible from space).

At least six or seven of them, including Jack, Tha Wookie, The Goat, Matthewski, The Dude (known here as bfitz) and a few others. All got along famously.

So maybe it's good that they get it out of their systems here, where the rock throwing is only metaphorical.

Jack Tarlin
01-20-2007, 20:15
The late Mae West once said that the only thing worse than being talked about was NOT being talked about.

I think some of the folks that complain about being persecuted here on WB and elsewhere on the Internet actually thrive on the commentary. It validates their existence.

Being bad mouthed on occasion might concern them, but not being talked about at all would positively KILL them.

In any case, the really funny thing is that a lot of this is Internet nonsense, and of the people that go at it hammer and tongs here on Whiteblaze, you'd be surprised at how well everyone gets along when we meet in person, whether it's Trail Days, or Bob Peoples' Hardcore maintenance weekend, or the ALDHA Gathering, or anywhere else.

People tend to be very different in person than they are sometimes on-line.

And this is not at all a bad thing! :D

bfitz
01-20-2007, 20:18
You know, Jim, I think you're not too far off base. At the last ALDHA Gathering, there was a motley collection of instigating whiteblazers together in one gigantic Redneck-supplied dome tent (which, I believe, is one of the few manmade objects visible from space).

At least six or seven of them, including Jack, Tha Wookie, The Goat, Matthewski, The Dude (known here as bfitz) and a few others. All got along famously.

So maybe it's good that they get it out of their systems here, where the rock throwing is only metaphorical.

Wait a minute! That was tha [explative deleted] wookie???!!!???!!!

Jack Tarlin
01-20-2007, 20:19
Bombast, Rick?

I'm afraid you're mistaken.

There's too much of a chance that when I asked for my money back, Warren would feign ignorance of my ever lending it to him, and would instead claim he'd found it under his seat at the cinema.

Oh, and you wouldn't be on my list either.

Southbounders you know, have a moral code of their own. :D

bfitz
01-20-2007, 20:20
Of all the people on Whiteblaze who I would trust with a box of uncounted $100 bills, Warren would be very high on my list.

If given the chance to entrust his own such box with Warren vs. a person selected at random from this list, my bet is Jack would also go with Warren.

Jack's characterizations are just so much bombast.

If jack had a stack of uncounted hundred dollar bills I'd alert homeland security!!

Alligator
01-20-2007, 20:37
Let me get this straight. This is supposed to be a thread about how it's not nice to spread rumors and engage in personal attacks online or on the trail? Might be off track already.

bfitz
01-20-2007, 20:41
A contrary view is key to every discussion.

mrc237
01-20-2007, 20:49
I hate gossip and try to discourage other hikers from perpetuating it. It serves no purpose. Another reason to stay outta the shelter area.

Gray Blazer
01-20-2007, 23:22
You gotta be thick skinned when somebody you don't even know (and they might even think they are trying to be funny or helping you or something) seems to personnally attack you online. Maybe they are braver when not personnally facing you and they go ahead and spill their true feelings. I found out you can try to say the most informative thing in the most positive way and someone's still goin' to flame ya. I even experimented one time here when I had some AT related news. I was published on a well known website one time (AT related) and I started a thread here about it but didn't say I was the person resonsible. Sure enough right away there was negative comments about how the person responsible was not even a real hiker and blah blah blah. If someone attacks me for what I say I tell em to sue me and don't think about it again until I get that cop at the door delivering some papers.

Gray Blazer
01-20-2007, 23:23
BTW are you the wolf featured in my pic gallery standing with Sandman?

Frosty
01-21-2007, 00:01
In any case, the really funny thing is that a lot of this is Internet nonsense, and of the people that go at it hammer and tongs here on Whiteblaze, you'd be surprised at how well everyone gets along when we meet in personBoy, this is sure the truth. There isn't anyone on Whiteblaze whose company I do not enjoy in person. Everytime I read a post from someone I don't know that gets under my skin, I remember how absolutely wrong I was about one man, and attempt to exercise my right to restraint of tongue and pen. Sometimes I'm even successful.

I haven't really looked into it, but I wonder if younger folk do better on the internet than us codgers. I know my son grew up with computers and has a better "feel" for them than I. Text messaging and IM seem to be the communication of choice among youngsters, so perhaps we are old dogs trying to learn new tricks. Analog guys in a digital world.

At any rate, I'm glad there is the trail and get-togethers. I'm sorry I missed Soruck. Friendships bonded in face-to-face encounters may even survive the internet.

L Tee
01-21-2007, 00:15
Gray Blazer -

Go Gators!!

I went to UF for a few years before transfering to a school here in Orlando. Sorry VERY off topic but I got excited...

Gray Blazer
01-21-2007, 00:19
Boy, this is sure the truth. There isn't anyone on Whiteblaze whose company I do not enjoy in person. Everytime I read a post from someone I don't know that gets under my skin, I remember how absolutely wrong I was about one man, and attempt to exercise my right to restraint of tongue and pen. Sometimes I'm even successful.

I haven't really looked into it, but I wonder if younger folk do better on the internet than us codgers. I know my son grew up with computers and has a better "feel" for them than I. Text messaging and IM seem to be the communication of choice among youngsters, so perhaps we are old dogs trying to learn new tricks. Analog guys in a digital world.

At any rate, I'm glad there is the trail and get-togethers. I'm sorry I missed Soruck. Friendships bonded in face-to-face encounters may even survive the internet.Frosty, I can say you're one of three people I've met from WB and I'm glad to know all ya'll. I'm close to old codgerish and I can't do shuda with a computer. I'm lucky I can post on WB.

Sly
01-21-2007, 02:04
In any case, the really funny thing is that a lot of this is Internet nonsense, and of the people that go at it hammer and tongs here on Whiteblaze, you'd be surprised at how well everyone gets along when we meet in person, whether it's Trail Days, or Bob Peoples' Hardcore maintenance weekend, or the ALDHA Gathering, or anywhere else.


I can go along with that. I think some here on WB don't realize how well, and how long many of us have known each other.

rickb
01-21-2007, 10:48
Southbounders you know, have a moral code of their ownI guess that gets right to it, Jack. Different people have differnt moral codes.

For some, eating a piece of fallen fruit in a farmer's field must be condemned as immoral. Theft! Theft! Theft! Or sitting through a second movie. The horror!

Perhaps rightly so.

But since we have a morral arbitter, why not take advantage of his wisdom?

Is it morral to buy a Western Mountaineering sleeping bag when I could use those resources to keep a child suffering from famine alive?

Jack?

And is it a moral for people on a web site to paint others as thieves or hard drinkers or whatever for years, when the characterizations may live on long after the specific facts are forgotton?

mrc237
01-21-2007, 11:12
You mean making mountains out of molehills? Naaaaaah! The worse thing to hear on the trail "Oh yeah I heard about him/her" "Let me tell you what I heard". By the time the story reaches K the person was indicted for murder. "Thats what I heard".

Smile
01-21-2007, 11:40
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid and the envious. The stupid will like you in five years time, the envious, never."
-John Wilmont, Earl of Rochester

Vi+
01-21-2007, 12:50
Reviewing Wolf - 23000's initiating post:

“Has anyone notice that some ‘hikers’ all they do is attack others either here on line or on trail. In some situation some will straight out make things up just to prove their point.”

“Grow up people! If someone does come to you with gossip, ask them if they were their. If not tell them to grow up.”

Jack Tarlin
01-21-2007, 16:36
1. Rick, being a drinker is a personal decision, and last I checked, alcohol was legal in all 50 states. Likewise, theft is illegal in all 50 states.
2. I never "painted" anyone as a thief. Painting or other adornment wasn't necessary. In repeatedly describing his own actions on the Trail over the years, the theft in question was self-admitted. If anyone painted this gentleman as a thief, well, he did it to himself. Repeatedly. So don't blame ME with calling him names. If a guy comes on to this website and insists on talking about his history of theft, and then insists on trying to justify it.....well, don't blame ME when he gets criticized for it. He should either stop bragging about this activity on public websites and elsewhere, or better yet, cease such activity altogether.

Got it, Rick?

bfitz
01-21-2007, 16:53
IIs it morral to buy a Western Mountaineering sleeping bag when I could use those resources to keep a child suffering from famine alive? So the money you save by stealing half eaten pizza goes to charity? How noble. Are you really going to spend the extra money to "keep a child suffering from famine alive"? I'd probably buy the cheap gear and spend the extra money on weed. Just sayin. Maybe there are less direct ways to affect that kids fate, as well as many others, through activism or proper voting. Either way, I'm at peace with my personal decisions.

Socrates
01-21-2007, 17:24
Is it morral to buy a Western Mountaineering sleeping bag when I could use those resources to keep a child suffering from famine alive?

Heeey, that's what I bought. Now I feel guilty. Ok, not really.

I guess I don't understand what all the gossip is about. Everybody has good in them if you're open enough to see it. And as far as the bad, we all have our faults... If you're open enough to see it.

Computer chat is weird. I learned a long time ago to not take it seriously. Well, not too seriously. lol

smokymtnsteve
01-21-2007, 19:10
So the money you save by stealing half eaten pizza goes to charity? How noble. Are you really going to spend the extra money to "keep a child suffering from famine alive"? I'd probably buy the cheap gear and spend the extra money on weed. Just sayin. Maybe there are less direct ways to affect that kids fate, as well as many others, through activism or proper voting. Either way, I'm at peace with my personal decisions.

grow your own and don't spend any $$$ for weeds..


besides the blame for the straving children belongs to the immoral actions and activities of xian missionaries who brought in food and anti-biotics to these populations but neglected to bring them birth control also,,,so thank a cattlikker

Gray Blazer
01-21-2007, 19:16
Gray Blazer -

Go Gators!!

I went to UF for a few years before transfering to a school here in Orlando. Sorry VERY off topic but I got excited... am a UF alumni.I love your trail name. I guess I'd better keep this on topic. I am a jealous hiker. I'm jealous of Gen Lee's trail name.

Gray Blazer
01-21-2007, 19:19
grow your own and don't spend any $$$ for weeds..


besides the blame for the straving children belongs to the immoral actions and activities of xian missionaries who brought in food and anti-biotics to these populations but neglected to bring them birth control also,,,so thank a cattlikker
Now I know why they call you Smokey Mountain.:D

smokymtnsteve
01-21-2007, 19:27
Now I know why they call you Smokey Mountain.:D

jist liek all yore backpacking gear needs to have multi-uses so should yore trail name :welcome

weary
01-21-2007, 22:48
....
In any case, the really funny thing is that a lot of this is Internet nonsense, and of the people that go at it hammer and tongs here on Whiteblaze, you'd be surprised at how well everyone gets along when we meet in person, whether it's Trail Days, or Bob Peoples' Hardcore maintenance weekend, or the ALDHA Gathering, or anywhere else.
People tend to be very different in person than they are sometimes on-line.
:D
Absolutely true Jack. I wish you would read, think about and understand the implications of what you are saying.

Fannypack
01-22-2007, 00:41
Absolutely true Jack. I wish you would read, think about and understand the implications of what you are saying.
ditto Weary post....

BJ , u have made your point....

I have seen a few comments (not just in this thread) from persons saying that they are confused about what the issue is between u & WD and these people seem to be put off by the bickering going on here. BJ, u have a history with WD so get over it and PLEASE stop repeating yourself with your opinions (or truisms) of/on WD...

NOTE: In response to this post, PLEASE don't reiterate your rant about WD because i am convinced u don't like WD's actions. THx.

K0OPG
01-22-2007, 09:43
Well, I guess I figured I would say it before anyone else so that I don't get my feelings hurt...

I am an *******..:eek: ..I don't like bitching and moaning, especially when your actions put you in the situation you are in...grow up...accept responsibility for you actions (or lack thereof) and shut the hell up around the rest of us. If we meet and I nod, that menas DON'T TALK TO ME, if I say, Hi, how's it going?, then that means I would like to converse.

I want a t-shirt that reads..."What did I say or do that made you think I wanted you to talk to me?

Lone Wolf
01-22-2007, 09:46
You know, Jim, I think you're not too far off base. At the last ALDHA Gathering, there was a motley collection of instigating whiteblazers together in one gigantic Redneck-supplied dome tent (which, I believe, is one of the few manmade objects visible from space).

At least six or seven of them, including Jack, Tha Wookie, The Goat, Matthewski, The Dude (known here as bfitz) and a few others. All got along famously.

So maybe it's good that they get it out of their systems here, where the rock throwing is only metaphorical.

Hey, i was in there too! give me credit . i'm jealous.

MOWGLI
01-22-2007, 10:02
Hey, i was in there too! give me credit . i'm jealous.

LW, you were undoubtedly the straw that stirred the drink. Or stirred something up anyway. ;)

D'Artagnan
01-22-2007, 11:27
A contrary view is key to every discussion.

"The true test of a first-rate mind is the ability to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time." -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

This is on a plaque on my desk. :D

Wolf - 23000
01-22-2007, 15:38
You mean making mountains out of molehills? Naaaaaah! The worse thing to hear on the trail "Oh yeah I heard about him/her" "Let me tell you what I heard". By the time the story reaches K the person was indicted for murder. "Thats what I heard".

mrc237,

Well said! It can really tarish someone reputation. I'm not just talking about hikers who have done more than the average, but even hikers doing their first thru-hikes. It is a morral thing as Rick pointed out, but most of the hikers doing it would change their tune if the shoe was place on the other foot. It can distroy someone hike fast. Before one gossip about another, think about it. Would you like it done to you?

Coopdog, you actions don't alway have anything to do with it. I like to consider myself a very polite person to everyone. I like to say good morning or something simular to everyone, ask them how their hike is going, etc. I had hikers bad mouth the hell of me because I didn't tell them what kind of sleeping gear I used, or what I travel with. Stupit things like that. Or how many times have we heard of hikers being treated to trail magic then expect more.

Wolf



P.S. Rick "Is it morral to buy a Western Mountaineering sleeping bag when I could use those resources to keep a child suffering from famine alive?" One could also make the arguement, is it morral for the parents to bring a life into this world to suffer and continue to do so rather than giving them up to a better home. In the end, what is the best intrest of the child.

dadecker
01-22-2007, 16:33
Wow - I thought this site was of higher quality.

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 17:45
rickboudrie post #6
"Of all the people on Whiteblaze who I would trust with a box of uncounted $100 bills, Warren would be very high on my list."

I appreciate your sentiment. Over the years, you seem to know much more about me and my motivations/thought processes than the very few 'experts' who spew forth incessant garbage/litter on this information superhighway.

If you entrusted me with a box of uncounted $100 bills, I would immediately count them so you and I would know the exact amount that you have left with me. We would put the amount on a piece of paper (co-signing it) saying that it was my responsibility to return the same amount to you.

Happy trails!

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 19:07
Warren:

Speaking only for myself, much of what I know of you, your motivations, and thought processes, has been gleaned from your own postings here.

If I've criticized you personally or some of your behavior, it has usually come IN DIRECT RESPONSE to something you've posted here at Whiteblaze.

If I've referred to you as a it's thief because you've come here more times than I can count and bragged about being one. Lately, you've taken to defending your right to be one, which is absurd.

If you're sensitive about this criticism, which you obviously are, I've previously suggested an easy remedy: Either stop posting such stuff here, or better yet, stop the objectionable behavior itself.

But if you continue to act like a jerk while hiking, and continue to publicly defend such behavior, and if you continue to describe yourself as a "Trail educator" and think that people would benefit from some of your more unorthodox beliefs and suggestions, well, you're going to continue to get called on it.

I get slammed here every day for one thing or another, Warren. You need to grow a thicker skin about criticism or clean up your act, and then maybe you'll stop feeling persecuted.

The Old Fhart
01-22-2007, 19:18
Rickboudrie-"Of all the people on Whiteblaze who I would trust with a box of uncounted $100 bills, Warren would be very high on my list."You are totally missing the point. The following quote says it best.

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught." -J.C. Watts

What would be more important is what people do on and off the trail when they feel they can 'get away' with illegal acts. Previous post bragging of illegal acts speak for themselves.

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 19:22
Well, that's two of the Trinity.

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 19:32
Warren:

I've mentioned this before, but maybe you missed it:

I spent many years in the film business......I booked theaters, I bought product for chains of video stores, I wrote reviews.

And I spent several years managing movie theaters.

I threw out a lot of free-loaders and thieves. Most of the people I tossed out for sneaking into a cinema without a ticket were around twelve years old.

It was very rare to find an adult guilty of this sort of thing; it was evidently a juvenile behavior that most folks outgrew when they got passed middle school.

Most folks, anyway.

Stop making yourself ridiculous. If you think this sort of behavior somehow makes you look like a "free spirit" or a rebel, or you think that it somehow constitutes civil disobediance or refusal to kowtow to established authority, well, you're wrong.

It makes you look like a thieving sixth grader.

At your advanced age, this isn't merely sad. It's pitiful.

Lone Wolf
01-22-2007, 19:36
Stop making yourself ridiculous. If you think this sort of behavior somehow makes you look like a "free spirit" or a rebel, or you think that it somehow constitutes civil disobediance or refusal to kowtow to established authority, well, you're wrong.


http://gallery.backcountry.net/chomp-ruck03/aal

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 19:52
Ah, Wolf, but the difference is that I don't pass myself off as an "educator".

Plus, that photo is quite elderly (you can tell by my weight!!), it's more than half a decade old as I recall. We all regret some of our actions in the past, as I'm sure you'd agree, especially if I sent along some photos of YOU from a recent Trail Days! :D

Mr. Doyle's transgressions, however, aren't five or six years old; we're speaking of comments he's made in the past week.

You se Wolf, I've reformed!! :D

khaynie
01-22-2007, 19:52
My God, are those canned units of Yuengling in L Wolf's posted picture? I'm most definitely a jealous hiker now. I've never seen them in a can...hell, we can't even get them in GA. What a bummer as I miss the taste of 99 cent Yuengling draft or bottle as bad as the bcs missed picking the #1 & #2 teams for the championship. And that's bad, real bad.

Alligator
01-22-2007, 20:07
Actually Jack, this latest cycle of the dead horse movie was not initiated by Warren. Point of fact is also that he didn't initiate it in this thread either. So what you posted was not a direct response, it was leftover from a thread where your post was removed.

Now Jack, since you brought it up again, I expect that we may have no chance to avoid Warren demonizing the movie biz, while all the while you are spurring on that skeleton of a horse you ride.

Or perhaps we could make an incrementally minute step here and take this movie crap off the table and out of WB.net. You both PM me. That way, no one loses face, and neither has to know who went first. I'll post that both agreed to not discuss it again. How about it:cool: ?

Of course, this could just be ribbing among friends and I am mistaken:rolleyes: .

The Old Fhart
01-22-2007, 20:13
Warren Doyle-"Well, that's two of the Trinity."I believe it is better to be associated with the trinity than common criminals. Isn't it time for you to write another pithy epistle from gaol? :D

Lone Wolf
01-22-2007, 20:17
Ah, Wolf, but the difference is that I don't pass myself off as an "educator".

Plus, that photo is quite elderly (you can tell by my weight!!), it's more than half a decade old as I recall. We all regret some of our actions in the past, as I'm sure you'd agree, especially if I sent along some photos of YOU from a recent Trail Days! :D

Mr. Doyle's transgressions, however, aren't five or six years old; we're speaking of comments he's made in the past week.

You se Wolf, I've reformed!! :D

it's just 4 years ago. you're clearly breaking the law.

Fannypack
01-22-2007, 20:23
it's just 4 years ago. you're clearly breaking the law.
gotcha, nuff said

Gray Blazer
01-22-2007, 20:24
That pic does seem intoxicating, I mean incriminating. I'm jealous.

TJ aka Teej
01-22-2007, 20:24
Isn't it time for you to write another pithy epistle from gaol? :D

More self-serving fiction? Well, it'd probably be better than him shamelessly screeching horrid "poetry" at an audience of innocent hikers.

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:26
Note to Alligator:

I already DID PM you, and got a very gracious reply, I might add.

And no, I'm sorry. I'm not going to agree to refrain from criticizing Doyle or anyone else in the future.

When he stops coming onto this website and giving people lousy advice, then I'll stop criticizing him. When he stops bragging about some of his actions on the Trail, then I'll stop calling him on them. When he stops damaging organizations like ALDHA by publicly opposing some of their PR efforts in regards to protecting Trail Services, then I'll stop bringing this up.

Alligator: Your last post wasn't really necessary: I've already stated several times that if Mr. Doyle is troubled by some of the criticism that comes his way, there's a very simple remedy, and he knows what it is. That's to either alter his behavior, or at least stop defending it.

But out of respect for you, well, sure. Assuming Mr. Doyle doesn't ever come back on Whiteblaze and brag about not paying user fees; eating in restaurants without paying, or ripping off private businesses, well, assuming he never does this EVER again, I'll happily stop talking about it.

I assure you there are more worthy things to discuss.

rickb
01-22-2007, 20:34
I must take note that Jack has not seen fit to comment on SMS' decicision to promote the cultivation of marijuana in this very thread..

And I must thank him for this restraint.

The trail is better when it is populated by a diverse set of individuals, and not a bunch of sheeple.

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 20:37
Trinity scores in only 1 hour and 17 minutes!

Trinity = 1

Bragging Bozo (the common, clownish criminal) = 0

Batter up!

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:37
Um....Rick.

In case you haven't noticed, I generally don't bother to coment on ANY of SMS's posts, whatever their subject!

Life's too short. :D

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:41
Hey Warren:

Look up in the top right hand corner of my posts.

You'll see that I'm from Hanover, and you'll see how many times I've posted.

Now let's look at the top right corner of YOUR posts, and we'll see that you feel compelled to share your entire A.T. hiking history with the public every single time you post here at Whiteblaze.

So who's the Bragging Bozo, eh? :-?

Fannypack
01-22-2007, 20:47
Note to Alligator:

I already DID PM you, and got a very gracious reply, I might add.

And no, I'm sorry. I'm not going to agree to refrain from criticizing Doyle or anyone else in the future.

When he stops coming onto this website and giving people lousy advice, then I'll stop criticizing him. When he stops bragging about some of his actions on the Trail, then I'll stop calling him on them. When he stops damaging organizations like ALDHA by publicly opposing some of their PR efforts in regards to protecting Trail Services, then I'll stop bringing this up.

Alligator: Your last post wasn't really necessary: I've already stated several times that if Mr. Doyle is troubled by some of the criticism that comes his way, there's a very simple remedy, and he knows what it is. That's to either alter his behavior, or at least stop defending it.

But out of respect for you, well, sure. Assuming Mr. Doyle doesn't ever come back on Whiteblaze and brag about not paying user fees; eating in restaurants without paying, or ripping off private businesses, well, assuming he never does this EVER again, I'll happily stop talking about it.

I assure you there are more worthy things to discuss.
who is admin for this thread?

Could it pls be put to bed?

It seems that BJ, WD and others believe the personal attacks rule is just a bluff, but who am i to judge?

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 20:48
It's the top of the second inning and it's a single up the middle! Trinity player on first with no outs. Will they be stranded or will someone allow them to advance?

Alligator
01-22-2007, 20:49
Well then, on to Mr. Doyle. How about this. We've all heard or can search, ad nauseum, the pros and cons of hitchiking--err--, the pros and cons of your conscientious objections:-? . Rather than running the risk of continued discord over what are dead end arguments, how about we just move on. If somebody keeps at it with an old issue, let it roll off your scales--err--skin:D . If you must, put a link into your best post covering the old dispute. There has to be several:) .

We'll all be thankful for it, and everyone's stature will rise. ATTroll will be happy, Dixi will get some sleep at night, and SGT Rock won't have to do any ass kicking when he checks back in:banana .

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 20:53
"It seems that BJ, WD and others believe the personal attacks rule is just a bluff, but who am i to judge?"
__________________

Please, I am not worthy to be in the same league as the Trinity. I just don't have the experience (i.e. personal attacks) that they have.

max patch
01-22-2007, 20:53
Well, Rick may very well trust WD with a bunch of $100 bills, but there ain't no way I'm leaving any french fries on my plate if I have to use the restroom and WD is eating at the same restaurant I am.

Jack Tarlin
01-22-2007, 20:55
Gator:

Good post. I'm off to other things. Gonna try and finish that damned Re-Supply article this week now that I've finally got the new Companion and Handbook in hand.

May peace and goodwill prevail! :sun

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 21:04
"Well, Rick may very well trust WD with a bunch of $100 bills, but there ain't no way I'm leaving any french fries on my plate if I have to use the restroom and WD is eating at the same restaurant I am."

Not to worry max patch. Rule #8 in my Leftover Menu Etiquette Book states the following:

Rule #8 - Always make sure the diner has clearly left the dining establishment before one begins the foraging of the aforementioned diner's table.

Happy leftovers!

Alligator
01-22-2007, 21:21
I was thinking. You know what it is about these issues? They're OLD. No one is really trying to sway anybody here. Rather, the arguments are used to push every one's favorite buttons. It's just an excuse to get your digs in on someone you don't like or are looking to piss off. Right:-? . They have become vehicles of animosity. It's known that there will be no resolution. Both sides going at in an attempt to bludgeon the other. It would be different if there was actually something new discussed, but there's not.

Oh well. At the very least, please refrain from criticizing the site and/or the information superhighway when you are just as complicit as your opponent.

Alligator out.

dixicritter
01-22-2007, 21:50
Is there a point to this thread other than to stir up the same old argument? It really doesn't look like it to me. I will give this thread a chance to settle down before action is taken on it.

As for who has the right to say who can and can not post on this site... That would be up the administration team not the members here. We would appreciate it if you would all remember that.

rickb
01-22-2007, 21:52
Rule #8 in my Leftover Menu Etiquette Book states....


This thread is finally getting interesting.

My question is whether or not it is considered bad form to follow a trucker into the men's room to verify that washes his hands?

And if he is of the sort who just does that quick rinse thing, is it ok to request that he use soap?

saimyoji
01-22-2007, 22:04
If I were you I'd be very careful about requesting anything from anybody in the men's room. :eek:

The Old Fhart
01-22-2007, 22:09
Rickboudrie-"My question is whether or not it is considered bad form to follow a trucker into the men's room to verify that [he] washes his hands?"Is this the sort of behavior something you often do?:eek:

I guess the answer to this depends on what your plans are with him!:;)

warren doyle
01-22-2007, 22:19
Q: My question is whether or not it is considered bad form to follow a trucker into the men's room to verify that he washes his hands?

A: Sorry, I cannot find anything in the LOMEB to answer your question. Most truckstops near the trail are AYCE and therefore not included in the book.


Q: And if he is of the sort who just does that quick rinse thing, is it ok to request that he use soap?

A: (see above answer)

In the future, I may conduct some field research near exit 54 off I-81 in Virginia to see if I can answer your questions.

Alligator
01-22-2007, 22:52
Whoah, wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes here, just attempting some mediation not administration. Definitely not telling anyone they can't post. Rather, to just think about whether they've already said everything they have to say on the subject and to reflect on whether certain criticisms should be directed inwards.

MOWGLI
01-22-2007, 22:58
Is there a point to this thread other than to stir up the same old argument? .

Clearly not. Could you please lock it down?

Frosty
01-22-2007, 23:25
Whoah, wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes here, just attempting some mediation not administration. Definitely not telling anyone they can't post. Rather, to just think about whether they've already said everything they have to say on the subject and to reflect on whether certain criticisms should be directed inwards.I don't think she meant you, Alligator. I think you're doing a fine job here. You have my vote as moderator of the week.

MOWGLI16 also makes an excellent point.

dixicritter
01-22-2007, 23:54
Correct Frosty, Not directed at you Alligator. Do appreciate the help. :)

emerald
01-23-2007, 00:11
Leftover Menu Etiquette Book[/i] states the following:

Rule #8 - Always make sure the diner has clearly left the dining establishment before one begins the foraging of the aforementioned diner's table.

Happy leftovers!

Warren, I couldn't find your book on amazon.com.:eek: Where can copies be purchased?

Desert Lobster
01-23-2007, 01:28
So many folks jealous of Warren!!!

Alligator
01-23-2007, 05:53
Correct Frosty, Not directed at you Alligator. Do appreciate the help. :)Ohh:datz , I was thinking to PM you instead too.

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 07:25
Rule #8 in my Leftover Menu Etiquette Book states...."Leftover Menu Etiquette" is as big an oxymoron as ‘fornicating for chastity’!:rolleyes: Rule #8a-"they also leave you leftover money as well as food!"

These illegal practices are no different than going into a clothing store, buying one pair of pants, and wearing three other pair out. Paying for the one doesn’t make the three you stole alright. Thieves blaming the victims is another common rationalization pattern of sociopaths.

Lone Wolf
01-23-2007, 07:28
eating leftover food that has been paid for and left to be thrown out is not stealing. if so from who are you stealing?

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 07:42
Lone Wolf-"eating leftover food that has been paid for and left to be thrown out is not stealing. if so from who are you stealing?"It is very common for restaurants to sell this food to pig farmers. It isn’t legal for the pigs to come to the restaurant to eat the food!:rolleyes:

Google ‘theft by conversion’ and you will find “conversion n. a civil wrong (tort) in which one converts another's property to his/her own use, which is a fancy way of saying "steals." Conversion includes treating another's goods as one's own, holding onto such property which accidently comes into the convertor's (taker's) hands, or purposely giving the impression the assets belong to him/her. This gives the true owner the right to sue for his/her own property or the value and loss of use of it, as well as going to law enforcement authorities since conversion usually includes the crime of theft.”

MOWGLI
01-23-2007, 07:46
While eating off another's plate in a public restaurant is IMO disgusting and displays poor manners, TOF is reaching with his posts #81 & #83. Give it a rest.

Jaybird
01-23-2007, 07:50
Meaningless thread of dribble...





TIME OUT corner for WARREN & JACK!
hehehehehehehehe:D

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 08:01
MOWGLI16-"While eating off another's plate in a public restaurant is IMO disgusting and displays poor manners, TOF is reaching with his posts #81 & #83. Give it a rest."You are absolutely wrong, I am not reaching for that food at all!:D While I agree with you that this illegal practice is disgusting and displays poor manners, and we would expect no less from some people, the reference to 'conversion' shows that I'm not reaching at all.

Although charges were later dropped for other reasons, don't you remember the students who were arrested and jailed for stealing from a dumpster? As to the answer to who's reaching, I'd say it's you. I've shown why it is illegal and you can only say that my criticizing your mentor makes you uncomfortable. Please show me some facts that it is ok to steal food from a restaurant. I thought so.:D

MOWGLI
01-23-2007, 08:17
For the 150th time, WD is NOT my mentor. Stop acting like an Old Fool - Phart. :) You and Jack are dragging down the website with this crap.

Heater
01-23-2007, 08:36
Well, I guess I figured I would say it before anyone else so that I don't get my feelings hurt...

I am an *******..:eek: ..I don't like bitching and moaning, especially when your actions put you in the situation you are in...grow up...accept responsibility for you actions (or lack thereof) and shut the hell up around the rest of us. If we meet and I nod, that menas DON'T TALK TO ME, if I say, Hi, how's it going?, then that means I would like to converse.

I want a t-shirt that reads..."What did I say or do that made you think I wanted you to talk to me?

:nods at coopdog: :p

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 08:36
MOWGLI16-"For the 150th time, WD is NOT my mentor. Stop acting like an Old Fool - Phart.:) You and Jack are dragging down the website with this crap."And by implication you’re saying WD is elevating it with his 'worthy' posts that you describe as "disgusting and displays poor manners"? :-?

I have asked you directly and nicely to show why the practice of stealing meals is ok and your only reply is to lower yourself to calling me names while defending the crap that your mentor, friend, whatever, posts. BTW, you are bright enough to know the difference between a “P” and an “F”, the name is Fhart, not Phart, and you know it, obviously another sign of your name calling.

If you can't reply with facts perhaps you should refrain from these underhanded attacks. Try thinking before you type and get yourself under control. Thanks! :)

Gray Blazer
01-23-2007, 08:40
you are bright enough to know the difference between a “P” and an “F”, the name is Fhart, not Phart, and you know it, obviously another sign of your name calling.

you should refrain from these underhanded attacks. Try thinking before you type :) Ouch, that has to hurt.:D I'm still a jealous hiker. I'm jealous that you guys don't fight in my threads and make them 5 pages long.

MOWGLI
01-23-2007, 09:34
Stop with the Straw Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) logic. Please.

sherrill
01-23-2007, 10:09
Well, from reading these posts, I'm compelled to observe the subject has remained true to the title of the thread.

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 10:13
MOWGLI16-"Stop with the Straw Man logic. Please."I'm still waiting for the least hint of a logical retort from you on why it is ok to steal from others and I find the silence deafening.

Nice try at obscurantism though!:D

Lone Wolf
01-23-2007, 10:19
Well, from reading these posts, I'm compelled to observe the subject has remained true to the title of the thread.

jealousy and obsession from the "trinity".

rafe
01-23-2007, 10:24
jealousy and obsession from the "trinity".

Strange math there. Is that because they're each worth 1.5 ?? :-?

DjangoRob
01-23-2007, 10:53
I can go along with that. I think some here on WB don't realize how well, and how long many of us have known each other.

However this board has some of the most randomly escalating arguments I've seen on any message boards. Someone will make a comment, someone will disagree with that, someone will make a personal comment and them bam, it's go-time. It took all of what, about ten posts before people are at it hammer-and-tongs.

It's good you guys vent your anger out over here, or I imagine the murder rate would triple on the AT ;)

MOWGLI
01-23-2007, 11:04
I'm still waiting for the least hint of a logical retort from you on why it is ok to steal from others and I find the silence deafening.



It's not, never has been, and I never said that it was. So once again, PLEASE stop twisting my words around to suit your purposes.

If you think I said it was OK to steal, I challenge you to produce a single quote of mine that bolsters your patently false assertion.

woodsy
01-23-2007, 11:06
Classic case of "CABIN FEVER" setting in at WB? The remedy for this well know wintertime disorder is to GET OUT AND HIKE!

MOWGLI
01-23-2007, 11:36
Classic case of "CABIN FEVER" setting in at WB? The remedy for this well know wintertime disorder is to GET OUT AND HIKE!

Yes, yes, 1000 times, YES! My 9 miler on Saturday only served to whet my appetite.

ed bell
01-23-2007, 11:45
However this board has some of the most randomly escalating arguments I've seen on any message boards. Someone will make a comment, someone will disagree with that, someone will make a personal comment and them bam, it's go-time. It took all of what, about ten posts before people are at it hammer-and-tongs.

It's good you guys vent your anger out over here, or I imagine the murder rate would triple on the AT ;)I find it refreshing to hear from an objective observer. :welcome While there are some important issues burried somewhere under all the posturing, it's really hard to gain any insight when the personal grudges get in the way. The intent of the initial post of this thread has actually been completely lost. There is quite an involved backstory to all this, Rob. Unfortunately, I doubt it will ever disappear.

ed bell
01-23-2007, 11:47
Oh, and I'm with woodsy.:sun

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 11:52
MOWGLI16-"If you think I said it was OK to steal, I challenge you to produce a single quote of mine that bolsters your patently false assertion."Very nice 2-step!:sun

If you want to end this right now instead of continually trying to evade answering the question as you have been trying to do, all you have to do is state: "I believe it is wrong to steal, whether it is from a restaurant, or any other business, and no thru hiker is exempt from the law."

You only criticize the posters that point out your friend's (or whatever's) fault and never point out the beam in his eye. Unless you can clearly say what I said above, I don’t have to prove anything, you’ve done all the work for me. :D

dixicritter
01-23-2007, 11:57
Is there a point to this thread other than to stir up the same old argument? It really doesn't look like it to me. I will give this thread a chance to settle down before action is taken on it.

As for who has the right to say who can and can not post on this site... That would be up the administration team not the members here. We would appreciate it if you would all remember that.

Two pages ago I posted this. And still we're talking about stealing? I believe this thread was nothing but a deliberate attempt to stir up this same old tired argument. Y'all need to go find something else to post about, you're setting a bad example.