View Full Version : Another Hiker Rescue in the Whites
the_iceman
01-23-2007, 07:31
Dateline 1/22/07 – 11:00 pm news
Another hiker was rescued in the White Mountains yesterday. The 24 year old had been hiking with two of his friends over the weekend when they became separated in a whiteout. The other two made it out while safely but he became disoriented and lost the trail.
He used his cell phone to call his friends to tell them he was safe but could not describe his location due to weather conditions. Let me guess, everything looked white?
Luckily he was somewhat experienced because he had a sleeping bag and a enough clothing to survive 2 nights before a rescue was launched and he was brought out to safety by helicopter. He is suffering from frostbite but there was no information on the extent.
New Hampshire law says he gets to pay the rescue expenses. I sure hope the “friends” that left him behind split the cost.
Pokey2006
01-23-2007, 07:41
It was my understanding that they only have to pay the cost if they are really, REALLY stupid? What, exactly, are the guidelines there?
Though I agree some people should have to pay the expenses, I always had an issue with that policy, only because I wonder: where do you draw the line? It shouldnt' be that EVERYONE has to pay for their rescuse. But there are no cut and dried rules, as far as I could tell. Maybe I'm wrong?
He did have the right gear to keep himself alive, unlike many of the people who need to be plucked out of the mountains of NH. I just hope his frostbite isn't too bad.
the_iceman
01-23-2007, 08:18
I am not sure of the exact policy but I think you are right. I think the words were "Under NH Law he MAY have to pay for the rescue."
Pokey2006
01-23-2007, 08:28
It's certainly an interesting topic for debate...
Not sure it applies here, though, since the guy did go in there prepared with the right gear...I think the policy was meant for the total yahoos who would go into those conditions in jeans and t-shirts and then call for help on their cells.
I wonder, too, about some cases where people hike out on their own after being missing for a couple of days, or are in the process of hiking out when they are found. Do they get charged for the efforts to rescue them, even though they "rescued" themselves?
Like I said, it's a good idea to charge people for being idiots, just where do you draw the line?
Isn't this the guy that went ahead of his party, not left behind by them?
TJ aka Teej
01-23-2007, 08:30
http://www.wmur.com/news/10812993/detail.html
Great news. It's been an active topic over on Views From The Top.
http://www.viewsfromthetop.com
Pokey2006
01-23-2007, 08:34
I would like to know more about why that is, Sly, if for no other reason then to teach us all a lesson in what not to do. Maybe he was the stronger hiker and offered to go ahead and warm up the car for the others? Maybe he was already suffering the ill effects of the cold and knew he had to get off the summit ASAP, even before his friends?
Unfortunately, news accounts don't give us, fellow hikers, the details we need to draw any definitive conclusions. Or learn any truly meaningful lessons. The lessons are in the details.
I would also like to know exactly what gear he had with him. News accounts only tell you "winter camping gear," and we all know that can mean all kinds of different things. But whatever he had, it might be a gear list for the rest of us to emulate!
TJ aka Teej
01-23-2007, 08:37
The latest Fish & Game report has been posted to VFTT:
http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15586&page=4&pp=15
4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 11:36
Unfortunately, news accounts don't give us, fellow hikers, the details we need to draw any definitive conclusions. Or learn any truly meaningful lessons. The lessons are in the details.
Events such as these rarely arise from one mistake, they are usually the result of a chain of errors: The weather conditions(white-out), while worse than predicted, were not totally unexpected. Error in underestimating conditions. The pre-hike planning and decision to "go". Error in overestimating ability and suitability of gear. Splitting up. Error in ignoring safe practices. Getting lost. Error in navigation.
Sure, one can "spin" the story to a positive angle, but the lessons learned are ONLY due to poor decisions. Had the trip ended without incident we wouldn't be discussing it.
I would also like to know exactly what gear he had with him. News accounts only tell you "winter camping gear," and we all know that can mean all kinds of different things. But whatever he had, it might be a gear list for the rest of us to emulate!
Whatever he had it wasn't enough(though I do wonder if another in the split-up party was carrying a suitable tent), although it is difficult to carry enough for what the Whites can dish out especially in winter. And though he had fashioned a makeshift shelter of some sort, he already had some frostbite when found. The hospital reports him only in "fair" condition. Had the wind kept up another day there is a good chance he would have been dead by the next morning. Perhaps a lesson or two to be learned but not anything I would honestly want to emulate.
the_iceman
01-23-2007, 13:40
Two errors that I can see. Well one really:
Splitting up the party which caused him to be hiking alone in severe weather conditions. If they had the gear (they were planning on camping) they should have stayed together and hunkered down until conditions cleared or until they could retreat TOGETHER.
How about also, I dunno, owning a compass?
Old Grouse
01-23-2007, 17:23
How about paying better attention to the weather reports and electing to stay in the dorm and study? (These were Plymouth State students, I believe.)
4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 17:44
How about paying better attention to the weather reports and electing to stay in the dorm and study? (These were Plymouth State students, I believe.)
They're in between semesters until next Monday. My daughter is a student at Plymouth. (No, she doesn't know him.)
Hard to fault people for making poor decisions under those conditions. It isn't thrugh ignorance; it is the wind and cold working on you.
Unless you have been on the Prezzie or Franconia Ridge in winter conditions, you just don't understand what it is like. You do get cold hiking, and with cold comes poor decision making. They go hand in hand.
There are lots of things you can do, the two most important being having adequate gear and a willingness to turn back if the weather is bad. Sometimes the weather turns bad on you whenyou are at the top. Then you need gear to survive a night.
Didn't he survive two? The temps at the trailhead were around zero. WHo knows what the temps and wind chill was where he was located.
I think we are being a bit harsh on this guy. Frostbite is not proof of inadequate equipment. Cold and wind permeate everything, and for some things you have to take your gloves off. You can't get out your food with gloves on, and you can't urinate with gloves. And even with goggles an a face mask, you can still get frostbite on your cheeks.
The decision to split up was the worst one. I still don't know how he got on the wrong side of the mountain, but sometimes in a whiteout you cannot tell up from down. Sounds unbelievable, but ask some of the winter campers here.
One thng is for sure. He did the right thing getting off the ridge and into the trees.
Had the trip ended without incident we wouldn't be discussing it.Very true. The difference between a tragedy and an epic adventure is if youk survive, it was an epic adventure.
Whatever he had it wasn't enough I don't see how you can make this statement without knowing what he had, and given the fact that he survived two subzero nights. You cannot carry gear to make you comfortable for every contingency. You ought to carry gear that will enable you to survive a night.
Jack Tarlin
01-23-2007, 18:29
Speaking of gear that will help you survive, does anyone know if he had a map? In that he didn't know which side of the ridge he was on, I kinda doubt it. :-?
The real questions are what were the weather forecasts? and did the three read them before starting?
There are always winter surprises. Some are due to unpredictable conditions. Some stem from a failure to gather predictable facts before starting. I have no answers because I don't know what the Mt. Washington Observatory was predicting.
It's not that forecasts are always correct. But my rule has always been to at least carry enough gear to be comfortable should the predictions come true -- which increasingly is likely.
Weary
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 18:48
As others on this thread have mentioned, what about compass (or GPS) and maps? Did they have these items? What about a weather reports? They could get one for the higher summits from the Mt. Washington Weather Observatory (where I worked in the winter) for that day after about 5am.
I just returned from a NH AMC mountain Safety Workshop held this past weekend and topics such as these were covered in depth. Another key part of trip planning is figuring out escape routes if there is a problem. An example I give participants is on the Southern Presidentials where storms almost always hit from the west so hikers caught in bad storms there go east into the Dry River drainage area where they might not be found for days, rather than going west into the wind, quickly getting below tree line, and hitting a road in a mile or so. If they check for escape routes they don’t make this common, sometimes fatal error.
It is still unclear how anyone even slightly familiar with Franconia Ridge could end up going east from Mt; Lafayette into the Pemi Wilderness area. Generally when people go out for an overnight (like this group) they split some of the common equipment like tent, poles, cooking gear, first aid, etc. It sounds like this guy didn’t have the tent. That is all the more reason that they shouldn’t have separated. Those of us who have been in similar conditions know that the safe hiking distance is where you can both see and communicate with the hikers in front and behind you. Under severe conditions when you are wearing face masks and hoods, in a very loud wind, this could be less than a couple of feet. Getting to the summit is optional, returning alive is not.
Accidents do happen but this sounds like it was preventable by using some common sense. Not going in bad conditions is a key factor. I always tell participants my motto is: “You have to make a decision you can live with.” Thankfully he survived due the SAR personnel who put their own lives at risk. I hope he recovers without any loss of fingers or toes.
the_iceman
01-23-2007, 18:48
Hard to fault people for making poor decisions under those conditions. It isn't thrugh ignorance; it is the wind and cold working on you.
Unless you have been on the Prezzie or Franconia Ridge in winter conditions, you just don't understand what it is like. You do get cold hiking, and with cold comes poor decision making. They go hand in hand.
There are lots of things you can do, the two most important being having adequate gear and a willingness to turn back if the weather is bad. Sometimes the weather turns bad on you whenyou are at the top. Then you need gear to survive a night.
Didn't he survive two? The temps at the trailhead were around zero. WHo knows what the temps and wind chill was where he was located.
I think we are being a bit harsh on this guy. Frostbite is not proof of inadequate equipment. Cold and wind permeate everything, and for some things you have to take your gloves off. You can't get out your food with gloves on, and you can't urinate with gloves. And even with goggles an a face mask, you can still get frostbite on your cheeks.
The decision to split up was the worst one. I still don't know how he got on the wrong side of the mountain, but sometimes in a whiteout you cannot tell up from down. Sounds unbelievable, but ask some of the winter campers here.
One thng is for sure. He did the right thing getting off the ridge and into the trees.
I have spent many a winter night there, The Pemi, and on Washington. Really like the Bond Cliff/Wilderness Trail area. Been in a total white out just a 1/4 mile from the summit of Carriagan. Did not know it was only a quarter mile because we snapped some pics and retreated. Came back the following weekend to summit and realized how close we were. Would have probably turned back anyway.
Was on Washington and had it go from snow to rain as we climbed. Still snowing below. Good hyperthermia conditions. We backed off that one also.
Common sense and count on you and your party. Experiece is good but you have to survive long enough to get it.
It is still unclear how anyone even slightly familiar with Franconia Ridge could end up going east from Mt; Lafayette into the Pemi Wilderness area.This is the question I still have. Supposedly he started out ahead of the other two, so it stands to reason that he headed in a direction the others followed. Yet they came down the west side alright. Granted, Lafayette can be a confusing summit to go down from in darkness/fog/whiteout, and remember the Cox's who went north on Garfield Ridge Trail, but I'm still not sure how he ended up in the Pemi.
I was camping on Kinsman the weekend of the Cox's misadventure, and based on their experience I upgraded my GPS to a mapping one. I know it isn't foolproof, but sometimes it is handier for more than finding ammo boxes with plastic dinosaurs.
the_iceman
01-23-2007, 19:04
Speaking of gear that will help you survive, does anyone know if he had a map? In that he didn't know which side of the ridge he was on, I kinda doubt it. :-?
That is the funny thing about a white out. Unless you have a GPS and know how to use it to place yourself on the map you are out of luck. The first question is "where are we?" No landmarks in a whiteout.
When the wind is howling you tracks disapper very quickly. Sometimes if you wait too long to retreat it is hard to know where you came from. Keeping track of wind direction helps if it is steady from one direction.
If you have the gear and lose postion I would get out of the wind set up shelter and wait it out. Wandering around up there is a good way to step off a 1,000' foot drop.
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 20:36
icemanboston-"That is the funny thing about a white out. Unless you have a GPS and know how to use it to place yourself on the map you are out of luck."As much as I love GPS(one of the top geocachers in NE), a compass would also have saved the hiker. I used a compass for decades and they do work. If the weather was that bad they should never have continued to the summit. I've been on Lafayette a few times in winter and many in summer. Knowing the terrain toward the Pemi, and the winds being out of the north, would have convinced me to go toward the hut without a second thought. The last couple hundred feet of elevation near the summit are the worst wind-wise.
Gray Blazer
01-23-2007, 20:42
Does anybody know if he took uneaten food paid for by other customers from the snackbar on Mt Washington?
Hard to fault people for making poor decisions under those conditions. It isn't thrugh ignorance; it is the wind and cold working on you.
Unless you have been on the Prezzie or Franconia Ridge in winter conditions, you just don't understand what it is like. You do get cold hiking, and with cold comes poor decision making. They go hand in hand.
There are lots of things you can do, the two most important being having adequate gear and a willingness to turn back if the weather is bad. Sometimes the weather turns bad on you whenyou are at the top. Then you need gear to survive a night.
Didn't he survive two? The temps at the trailhead were around zero. WHo knows what the temps and wind chill was where he was located.
I think we are being a bit harsh on this guy. Frostbite is not proof of inadequate equipment. Cold and wind permeate everything, and for some things you have to take your gloves off. You can't get out your food with gloves on, and you can't urinate with gloves. And even with goggles an a face mask, you can still get frostbite on your cheeks.
The decision to split up was the worst one. I still don't know how he got on the wrong side of the mountain, but sometimes in a whiteout you cannot tell up from down. Sounds unbelievable, but ask some of the winter campers here.
One thng is for sure. He did the right thing getting off the ridge and into the trees.
This post by Frosty tells it the way it is or can be out there in winter above treeline in the Northeast . Thanks for cutting the guy some slack Frosty cause nobody here was there. He did good under the circumstances, he managed to stay alive until help arrived, that made S&R and a whole lot of other people happy, me included.!
A whiteout on Franconia Ridge can be serious trouble. There are places where the ridge is narrow with serious dropoffs on one or both sides. There are only three trails to/from the ridge, with about 1 1/2 miles between them. Fortunately I've had mostly good weather up there. I've heard some harrowing stories, tho.
Does anybody know if he took uneaten food paid for by other customers from the snackbar on Mt Washington?
Snackbar is closed but one of the observers up there was wondering what happened to his leftovers after returning from the restroom, LOL
A whiteout on Franconia Ridge can be serious trouble. There are places where the ridge is narrow with serious dropoffs on one or both sides. There are only three trails to/from the ridge, with about 1 1/2 miles between them. Fortunately I've had mostly good weather up there. I've heard some harrowing stories, tho.I don't like going over that cap near Lincoln even in good weather. There is one spot where if you look down between a coupla big rocks all you see is air and Rte 3. But then, I'm a wuss.
Gray Blazer
01-23-2007, 20:59
Snackbar is closed but one of the observers up there was wondering what happened to his leftovers after returning from the restroom, LOLI knew it was closed, but, you are even funnier.:rolleyes:
The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 21:10
Gray Blazer-'Does anybody know if he took uneaten food paid for by other customers from the snackbar on Mt Washington?"The summit buildings are closed but sometimes the Obs crew put leftovers outside on a boulder called 'raven rock' and the mountain ravens pick it clean. I'm sure it wasn't the lost hiker but the other day they found the scraps all gone and in their place was a Don West poem that the ravens wouldn't touch. Even carrion foul have some limits.:D
This thread is heading for the hiking humor forum,
Grey Blazor started it all, PBRs on me!
Gray Blazer
01-23-2007, 21:30
This thread is heading for the hiking humor forum,
Grey Blazor started it all, PBRs on me!I apologize, they closed the jealous hiker thread before I got it out of my system. Now, to get this thread back on track. When my son was 8, he and I hiked up Dry River trail to Mt Washington. I thought it would take two days. It took 5 and I had brought food for 4. When we summited Mt Washigton we ate at the snack bar and bought some extra food and candy bars for our trip down. We played a lot at Eisenhower Falls and other spots and that's why it took so long. That's sort of a survival story. At least I didn't have a low blood sugar attack.
4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 23:50
Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=308059#post308059)
Whatever he had[gear] it wasn't enough
I don't see how you can make this statement without knowing what he had, and given the fact that he survived two subzero nights. You cannot carry gear to make you comfortable for every contingency. You ought to carry gear that will enable you to survive a night.
I disagree. Your gear, from a standpoint of protection from the elements, should be chosen to enable you to survive for far more than just one night. Weather conditions aren't accidents or medical emergencies. When you wind up frostbitten and hypothermic; being rescued by S&R with a helo insertion and evac; you have the wrong stuff. You can run out of food, but if you "run out of warm" you simply aren't carrying the right gear in the first place.
Surviving severe cold and wind isn't a contigency plan - it's the only plan. Part of this is that all the gear in the world won't make up for making bad decisions such as leaving your hiking companions, especially when they have the bloody tent! Anybody going out overnight in the Whites in winter should be equipped for subzero temps and high winds - period. That means a sub zero rated bag and a bulletproof tent. Three days or more of windy sub-zero weather isn't exactly unusual up here. One more night out and this guy may well have died. As it is, from the reports I've read, he has some significant frostbite on his hands and feet.
Jack Tarlin
01-24-2007, 00:04
I agree with Buzzard.
Also, published news accounts have mentioned that when found, he had his gloves on his feet.
This would seem to indicate that at the least, his socks and/or footwear were inadequate for the trip. (Or maybe he just had extra gloves!!)
But going out in those conditions without shelter, or voluntarily splitting up from the guy or guys who DID have the shelter was not prudent.
This guy's very lucky to be alive.
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 00:55
Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=308059#post308059)
Whatever he had[gear] it wasn't enough
I disagree. Your gear, from a standpoint of protection from the elements, should be chosen to enable you to survive for far more than just one night. Weather conditions aren't accidents or medical emergencies. When you wind up frostbitten and hypothermic; being rescued by S&R with a helo insertion and evac; you have the wrong stuff. You can run out of food, but if you "run out of warm" you simply aren't carrying the right gear in the first place.
Surviving severe cold and wind isn't a contigency plan - it's the only plan. Part of this is that all the gear in the world won't make up for making bad decisions such as leaving your hiking companions, especially when they have the bloody tent! Anybody going out overnight in the Whites in winter should be equipped for subzero temps and high winds - period. That means a sub zero rated bag and a bulletproof tent. Three days or more of windy sub-zero weather isn't exactly unusual up here. One more night out and this guy may well have died. As it is, from the reports I've read, he has some significant frostbite on his hands and feet.
Some important thoughts above. I came into this one late, but was he on a backpacking trip? Did he have crampons? Were the 3 guys sharing one tent? I've never gone out without a tent on my back, even with a group of fellow backpackers. I just like my own space.
This story and these posts reminds me of an emergency extraction of a group of backpackers from the Cranbrook school stuck on the North Fork of the Citico during the Blizzard of '93. Let me do some research . . .
freefall
01-24-2007, 01:10
It was my understanding that they only have to pay the cost if they are really, REALLY stupid? What, exactly, are the guidelines there?
Though I agree some people should have to pay the expenses, I always had an issue with that policy, only because I wonder: where do you draw the line? It shouldnt' be that EVERYONE has to pay for their rescuse. But there are no cut and dried rules, as far as I could tell. Maybe I'm wrong?
He did have the right gear to keep himself alive, unlike many of the people who need to be plucked out of the mountains of NH. I just hope his frostbite isn't too bad.
I am not sure of the exact policy but I think you are right. I think the words were "Under NH Law he MAY have to pay for the rescue."
Here's what we do in Colorado to offset S&R costs:
http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html
Tipi Walter
01-24-2007, 01:25
http://slideshows.knoxnews.com/index.cfm?start=4&slideshowname=blizzard93&usetemplate=blizzard93
This occurred in the Citico Wilderness and I haven't gathered a whole lot of details though I talked with several of the leaders and they presented some confusing scenarios.
This storm dumped 5 feet of snow at Newfound Gap with 14 foot drifts on Mt Mitchell. In the Boone NC area it got to below zero with up to 100 mph winds on the higher elevations.
the_iceman
01-24-2007, 08:52
Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=308059#post308059)
Whatever he had[gear] it wasn't enough
Anybody going out overnight in the Whites in winter should be equipped for subzero temps and high winds - period. That means a sub zero rated bag and a bulletproof tent.
4eyed - I agree except it is not just overnight. If you venture into the Whites in the winter PREPARE to stay 2 nights even if you do not plan to. Weather forecasts are wrong more than right and usually for the valley and not the summit. When I camp for a few days, even in a snow cave, I take my sleeping bag whenever I leave to ski or hike. 1) I may not make it back there. 2) some idiot might steal it. You have to have survial tools WITH you.
I disagree. Your gear, from a standpoint of protection from the elements, should be chosen to enable you to survive for far more than just one night. Weather conditions aren't accidents or medical emergencies. When you wind up frostbitten and hypothermic; being rescued by S&R with a helo insertion and evac; you have the wrong stuff. You can run out of food, but if you "run out of warm" you simply aren't carrying the right gear in the first place.
Surviving severe cold and wind isn't a contigency plan - it's the only plan. Part of this is that all the gear in the world won't make up for making bad decisions such as leaving your hiking companions, especially when they have the bloody tent! Anybody going out overnight in the Whites in winter should be equipped for subzero temps and high winds - period. That means a sub zero rated bag and a bulletproof tent. Three days or more of windy sub-zero weather isn't exactly unusual up here. One more night out and this guy may well have died. As it is, from the reports I've read, he has some significant frostbite on his hands and feet.All common sense stuff. We are not in disagreement. I carry a huge winter pack for the reasons you enumerate. But no pack can contain enough to meet every contingency, and if you have gear to keep warm two nights you have gear to keep warm three. But other factors intervene. Frostbite comes not only from inadequate gear, but from taking that gear off, even momentarily, for necessary tasks. The wind and cold numb your brain and you make bad decisions. Youk forget things. I remember one wicked cold April night spent in a tent, and only when I returned home did I remember that I had chemical hand/foot warmers in my emergency kit. How could I have not remembered or thought of them while I shivered? Gloves on feet are an example I think more of a cold-and-wind addled brain and a logical attempt to keep the feet warm.
My point was that he survived two nights out, and obviously had the gear to do that. His problem wasn't so much his gear, it was as Jack and others pointed out, separating from the group. He was on the wrong side of the mountain, but even that was better than staying on the ridge.
It's a whole different world in a tent in super cold weather. I have no way to describe it, but it you've done it, you know the mental strain is at least as large as the physical. I think this guy did better than we give him credit for, especially since as you say we are criticizing him without knowing what gear he had. But I still would like to know why they split up and how he got on the Pemi side of the ridge.