Bivy Sacks

[tunafishsandwich]

Anyone have any experience using a bivy sack as a standalone shelter? I love the simplicity of it and am thinking that setting up and breaking down camp would be much easier than a tent or tarp tent. Although it seems using a bivy sacrifices a place to put your gear, they can be claustrophoic and there are problems with condensation. If I were to go with a bivy I've narrowed down my choices to three models:

Nemo Gogo at 31oz. Uses Nemo's air supported frame and has a large vestibule for cooking or stowing gear. Uses a waterproof breathable fabric.

Integral Designs Unishelter at 31oz. Uses eVent which seems to be the most breathable fabric out there. From what I gather I don't need to reapply DWR either like on Gore-Tex.

Black Diamond Light Sabre at 24oz. Lighter and uses EPIC fabric. I hear there are problems with condensation though.

Can any bivy users tell me if it's worth it. Am I going to gain a whole lot convenience with a bivy oppose to a tarp tent? I really like the whole concept but I don't know how it would actually work out on the trail.

[Vi+]

Tunafishsandwich,

You ask, “Anyone have any experience using a bivy sack as a standalone shelter?”

Long before you were born, I used a bivy sack which is all Gore-Tex, has mosquito netting you can zip closed over the opening, a fiberglass bar to hold the opening wide and stable, and a loop above the opening which you can connect with cord to something overhead to keep the opening open and the top off your face. I.e., it’s pretty simple.

You advise, “I love the simplicity of it and am thinking that setting up and breaking down camp would be much easier than a tent or tarp tent.”

I share your assessment as do others which probably accounts for their sales.

“... they can be claustrophoic and there are problems with condensation.”

Claustrophobia can be a real problem if you feel that way.

I didn’t have problems with condensation, probably because my bivy is all Gore-Tex, fits closely to my sleeping bag, and I don't use it in warm weather. A major consideration regarding condensation is, the farther your breathable fabric is from you, the more likely you are to experience condensation.

I’m unfamiliar with any of your choices. I’ve forgotten who made my bivy; I’d be surprised if they are still in business. The selections you've made are, however, heavier than my bivy, and significantly heavier than a tarp tent.

You also ask, “Can any bivy users tell me if it's worth it.”

That’s a matter of preference, yours.

Your third question, “Am I going to gain a whole lot convenience with a bivy oppose to a tarp tent?”

Your observations of “... the simplicity of it and ... setting up and breaking down camp would be much easier ...” pretty much sum up its convenience.

A bivy transitions poorly in the rain. Your tired and probably hungry at the end of the day. You’re wet, having walked in the rain all day, and it’s still raining. Setting up your bivy sack, removing your sleeping bag from your pack and inserting it into your bivy, WHILE IT’S RAINING, then, after whatever else you’re going to do, getting into your sleeping bag, DRY, is a good trick. The best suggestion I’ve heard is to suspend a small tarp overhead before you proceed further setting up camp. If you intend to eat, it's either in the rain or in your bivy.

Rather than carrying both a bivy and a small tarp, I think you will be better off just using a larger tarp, or tarp tent. You can add insect netting over/under the tarp when it becomes desired.

Speaking of insects, when weather is hot and humid, and the insects are about, I doubt you’ll be enthusiastic about sleeping in a bivy.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Are you planning to use this on long hikes or just for a few days at a time? A bivy would certainly be adequate for a fews days, but for long-term trips I'd look at some of the ultralight tarp-tents like Tarptents Contrail, Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo, Gossamer Gears' remake of the original Squall so you'd have a place to pack and cook in the rain and a bit larger protected environment for yourself.

[Johnny Swank]

I've spent enough nights in a bivy to know that I'd hate one on a thru-hike. For the weight, you can carry a tarp tent that gets you more room and is more liveable in a storm.

Bivies work pretty well in shelters to keep the wind off your and the bugs at bay (assuming you don't have a heat stoke in them). Other than that, I'd look at some other tarptents.

[vipahman]

I don't use a bivy because of it's cons:
- hard to setup when raining
- noisy to sleep in when raining
- my shoes are exposed to the elements
- my pack with supplies is accessible to the local wildlife

Bivies are for good for high-altitude snow shelters and that's it.

[sparky2000]

good answers! It's a $&$ in rough weather no matter how much of the kitchen sink you've brought with you.

[tunafishsandwich]

Now when you guys say that it won't perform well in hot and humid conditions what exactly entails hot and humid? I'm looking to go NOBO from Pearisburg, VA to the northern terminus starting mid-May. How will a bivy perform in those type of conditions? I mean is a breathable bivy, like the ones I've mentioned, literally going to act like sweatboxes? Are bivies like these primarily winter-use only shelters?

If the answer is a resounding yes than I'd rather opt for an enclosed floorless tarp (like a Golite Hut1 or ID Silshelter) in combination with a lighter water resistant bivy (like an Oware EPIC or a BMW Vapr). The bivy, I'm hoping, can help keep my quilt under control in shelters while at the same time being a barrier from drafts from the floor (replacing the usual ground sheets most people use) and mice. This however sacrifices my idea of a simple, easy to set up shelter. I want it simple but I don't want an impratical sweatbox.

[Deerleg]

It’s likely you will have some exceedingly warm nights in June across PA and the lower ridges as you head north in the middle of summer…probably enough rain to make a bivy alone frustrating at times to keep dry…if it were me I would add a tarp of some kind. I have used a light weight bivy in combination with a home made tarp extensively during summer trips over the years and it worked out as a good lightweight sleep system.
Have a great hike.

[Froggy]

I have a Sierra Designs Solanthe bivy and since I leave my sleeping bag and pad in it, it's easy to get those set up dry. Kind of bulky when it's rolled up, but dry.

There's minimal room inside, and that's the most annoying feature. It's not flexible enough for a wide range of conditions: I prefer it in cool weather with the possibility of rain or fog. I use it when sleeping on the nets of my boat, for example, at anchor. It's also good when I know that finding space to sleep will be troublesome. In very cold weather I'll take a tent.

It's an all or nothing kind of thing. Since it's not all that easy to wriggle in and out of, and doesn't provide any shelter to cook or mess with gear, it really has minimal capabilities.

I'd take a tent or tarp on the AT.

By the way, my bivy weighs 30 5/8 oz. You can get tarps and a few tents for that weight.

One caveat - in hot and humid and buggy conditions, if using a tarp, a bug bivy might be worth the weight - but consider a bug net first.

[tunafishsandwich]

Okay, you guys are probably right. A standalone bivy is too expensive (both weight wise and price wise). I'm eyeing the GoLite Lair1 tarp in combination with an Oware EPIC bivy. The Lair1, according to BPL, is an easily pitchable tarp and if I tired enough (or lazy enough ;) ) at the end of the day I could just use the Oware since it provides adequate (but apparently not storm worthy) protection from rain.

[Jim Adams]

I have a Lair1 and don't use it because I like the space under my normal tarps. It would be a veritable "palace" for you compared to a bivy. It's in good shape and I'll sell it cheap.
[email protected]
geek

[rswanson]

Check out Titanium Goat's (http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html)bivy sacks. Good reports on them and half the cost of Oware, etc...with a bivy on the AT, you're going to have condensation. Its unavoidable.

If you're considering pairing a bivy with a tarp, consider something like Six Moon Designs (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=45)Gatewood Cape.

[bigcranky]

TFS,

I noticed the ID bivy in the gear list you posted a couple of days ago, and I was going to comment on it at some point. You ask about 'breathable' bivies like the eVent and the Goretex. In my experience, these are only breathable in cold, dry conditions; in warmer weather (anything over 40-F or so) you can get a fair amount of condensation inside. My hiking partner has the Bibler bivy and got soaked even on fairly cold trips. For the same 32oz weight, I think many hikers would be happier in one of Henry Shires' tarp tents. More room, much more ventilation, better rain protection, a place to change clothes and cook out of the rain, and not much harder to set up than a bivy.

My personal preference is for a small tarp and a lightweight, water-resistant bivy. These bivies are generally in the range of 4-8 ounces, have a waterproof silnylon or spinnaker floor, and a breathable top made of something like Pertex Quantum or ripstop 1.1oz nylon. Epic fabric sort of splits the difference between the truly waterproof (Gore, etc) bivies, and these lighter DWR bivies. Like any compromise, YMMV. If you are looking at the Oware bivies, check out the Quantum model, with either a silnylon floor or a Cuben Fiber floor. (Cuben is much lighter, but you need to protect it with a ground sheet, I'd get the sil.) They had a 'second' on their web site for about $200 recently. You could also look at Titanium Goat, Equinox, BackpackingLight, and Mountain Laurel Designs (once they are back up and running).

The reason I like the tarp/bivy combination is for its versatility. I can use the bivy in a shelter for bug/mouse protection and to stay on my pad, or I can use it out under the stars, or under the tarp if the weather is bad. It lets me use a smaller tarp b/c the bivy adds a layer of water resistance to my bag. Finally, it adds several degrees of warmth to my sleeping system.

I just ordered the fabric to make my own bivy from the thru-hiker.com site. I'm going to use their Momentum 90 top fabric, 1.3 sil for the floor, and the nanoseeum mesh for the top third of the body. This will be way lighter than my current bivy (an old Mountain Hardwear Micro Mesh Bivy -- all the rage on the AT ten years ago). The total cost was about $75 for the bivy materials, and I should have enough left over to make a couple of stuff sacks.

[Miner]

I use both a Tarp and bivy sack.

I like just using the bivy sack (without the tarp) because there is almost no setup time and I can fit into small areas that most people won't be able to camp in. However, I basically use it to cowboy camp (or in really bad weather under my tarp). I only use it for certain conditions: When I don't expect a storm (a little drizzle from a passing cloud is one thing, rain is quite another). When I expect a cold night and want the extra insulation. When I want the sewn in mosquito netting rather the the one that hangs from my tarp (maybe I didn't bring it). Or when I expect dew/moisture to cover my bag by morning. My recent 4 day trek across the width of Zion National Park over Thanksgiving was done just using the Bivy Sack.

I use a lightweight (5.5oz with the bug netting) bivy with a DWP treatment (the epic material version would have added 1 oz) by Titanium Goat. If I'm going to carry a tarp and bivy sack it seems pointless to buy a bivy that weights more then 8oz (which bivies are). A Tarp Tent would make more sense in weight for all but the lightest bivy/tarp combos.

I would NOT use the bivy sack for conditions which I expect any significant rain without carrying my tarp. I couldn't imagine staying in that sack more 1 night before going nutts.

[dloome]

Bivies were originally designed for mountaineering in very cold, dry conditions. I've used them and think they make an absolutely TERRIBLY backpacking shelter. Also, the ones you listed are friggin HEAVY. Get a tarp that weighs 1/3 of that.

I hate bivies because:
-Claustrophobic. I'm not, but I still don't want to be all zipped up in a body bag at night. Also, if you need to wait out a storm or something, it's boring as hell. No room to sprawl out, play cards, whatever. In order to stay dry in wet weather you've got to stay all zipped up in the thing. Not so fun if you're hiking with other people and want to socialize while you wait out the weather.

-Condensation, hot, sweaty. If you're counting on your bivy for bug protection, there will be a lot of nights when you'll keep the bugs from biting you by staying in your bivy, but you'll be really hot and sweaty in there.

-Setup. This is the biggest reason I hate bivies. Imagine this situation: It's raining towards the end of the day, and you want to set up camp. Try to imagine how you're going to get your bivy out of your pack, lay it out, put your bag into it, cook dinner, write in your journal, and go to sleep without getting everything soaked in the process. Now you have a fun night of hearing raindrops striking your bivy three inches from your face. Enjoy. Seriously, I suggest you try the following: Get a big trash bag you could fit all the way into and pretend it's a bivy. Put it in your pack with all the other gear you'll bring. Now, go outside and have a friend hold a sprinkler to simulate rain. Set up camp as described above without getting all your stuff wet.

In the AT you could always head for a shelter, but how do you know it won't be full, have some crazy dude in it, etc. Why be limited like that? Just get a tarp. Takes two minutes to set up and take down, can weigh WELL under a pound, roomy, airy. Toss in a headnet for bugs and you're set.

[dloome]

Also, I use the Lair 1 tarp as well.
Awesome.
Get it.

[tunafishsandwich]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have two questions for you.

1.) Does the Lair 1 provide adequate rain protection? I'm 6'2" and I'm worried it won't cover me completely.

2.) How are these titanium goat bivies? They seem like an amazing deal. Are any extra features on the Oware (compared to the TG) that justify its additional cost?

[dloome]

The Lair 1 provides adequate rain coverage, otherwise I wouldn't use it. If you're tall, you might look at the Hut 1 which is basically the same, just has a front vestibule that prvides better coverage and extra length. Weighs 3 oz. more than the Lair, probably a good bet.