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tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 14:55
Hello all.

Shortly after my wife and I decided that we were going to attempt a thru-hike in 2007, we thought that it would be a great way to raise money for a great cause. We had seen other people that have done the same for various charities. So upon narrowing it down to charities that we felt strongly about we decided to go with Project R & R.

Project R&R’s mission is to end the use of chimpanzees in biomedical research and testing in the United States and to help provide them rescue and restitution in permanent sanctuary. While we focus on the U.S., our goal is for a worldwide end to harmful, intrusive, and lethal research on all great apes.
So, just wanted to let everyone know about it and to check out our blog for more information about us and Project R & R at:


http://www.veganthruhikers.com (http://veganthruhikers.com)


See you all on the trail.

Tim & Megan

The Weasel
01-23-2007, 14:59
Hello all.


Shortly after my wife and I decided that we were going to attempt a thru-hike in 2007, we thought that it would be a great way to raise money for a great cause.


See you all on the trail.




Tim & Megan

That's a good thing you're doing, and it's not uncommon. But I encourage you to soft-pedal it with other thru-hikers and, to some extent, here on WB, since sometimes it feels a little bit much when it sounds like fundraisers" are sort of politely saying, "Give to mine! Give to mine!", even if they don't mean it that way. I'm sure you have plenty of friends who will help you, and it can be a great personal inspiration to keep going.

The Weasel

John B
01-23-2007, 15:13
Since you seem to wanna be all politically correct and down with the animals and all that, I noticed on your website a pic of your gear. Seems you have a couple of Nalgene bottles. Since the company that makes them is kinda involved in animal research and vivisection aids, so to speak, maybe you should consider switching to something else?

http://www.rmad.org/nalgene.html

4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 15:15
So upon narrowing it down to charities that we felt strongly about we decided to go with Project R & R.

Project R&R’s mission is to end the use of chimpanzees in biomedical research and testing...



Great idea. Let's use humans for research instead.:rolleyes:

At what point in the taxonomic order does research become okay?:-?

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 15:22
Thanks John B, I was not aware of that.

The Old Fhart
01-23-2007, 15:32
....so your 'mission' has to do with ending animal cruelty yet you're taking a small dog on a thru hike! Rather hypocritical.

Overpass
01-23-2007, 15:55
....so your 'mission' has to do with ending animal cruelty yet you're taking a small dog on a thru hike! Rather hypocritical.

I gotta agree here. Taking a SEVEN year old Bichon (a toy dog, bred to be a pampered lapdog) on a 2000+ mile hike really would be cruel. It's a grueling journey even for larger, younger and much more robust dogs.

4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 15:55
....so your 'mission' has to do with ending animal cruelty yet you're taking a small dog on a thru hike! Rather hypocritical.

Additionally they'll have to have the dog transported around GSMNP, Bear Mountain in NY, and Baxter State Park in Maine as all three prohibit dogs except for guide animals. In addition, dogs must be leashed on all National Park Service owned OR administered lands.

Lilred
01-23-2007, 16:05
Instead of working to save animals, why not choose a charity that might save humans?? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people put the life of an animal above the life of a human. These animals are tested in order to save humans. Without animal testing, we would still have women dying after childbirth. It was testing of the rhesus monkey that has saved many women's lives. Why not donate money to an orphanage instead. Chimps are tested for a reason. They are the closest animal DNA wise to humans. They are not an endangered species. Let's get our priorities straight here.

Mother's Finest
01-23-2007, 16:05
I think that is a great charity, and a great idea.

Liberal ideas are often bashed here on WB, but do not worry.

As to the idea of taking your dog on a hike classified as Animal Cruelty, I think that the standards set are a little soft. The dogs owners should have a good idea of its conditioning, know its behavior patterns, and I am assuming that since they are animal lovers if the dog has a problem they will send it home....If a human can make a 2000 mile walk, so can a dog.

peace
mf

Overpass
01-23-2007, 16:06
Additionally they'll have to have the dog transported around GSMNP, Bear Mountain in NY, and Baxter State Park in Maine as all three prohibit dogs except for guide animals. In addition, dogs must be leashed on all National Park Service owned OR administered lands.

Well, that's true of all dogs on the trail. I personally am not against dogs on the trail, as long as they are well-behaved, not a nuisance to other hikers and the dogs themselves are enjoying the experience. But plenty of even healthy, well-conditioned, prime-of-their-life, 2 year old athletic dogs like labs have to leave the trail due to exhaustion and injury. An ageing toy breed will NOT be able to handle this. Period.

Overpass
01-23-2007, 16:08
If a human can make a 2000 mile walk, so can a dog.

Um, the humans are choosing to hike 2000 miles. The dog has no choice in the matter.

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 16:25
Mothers Finest,

Thanks. I can see that.

My wife is a vet tech so our dog will be fine as far as care. And if our dog can not make it well will send her home, that was the plan. We would never push her more then she could handle.

QHShowoman
01-23-2007, 16:25
I wonder who gets to carry the extra 18+ lbs of that Bichon in their pack most of the way?!?

I am a professional fundraiser and have been a fundraiser since my early days of selling candy door-to-door as a Camp Fire Girl. Now I teach others how to fundraise. Here's what I don't get about a lot of folks who thru-hike "for a good cause" (note that this isn't specifically directed to the folks who started this thread, because there isn't much regarding the details of sponsorship on their Web site, but is meant in general):

For fundraising activities like the one described in this thread, there are two distinct types of sponsorships that I've seen discussed iby well-meaning hikers for charity:

1. Sponsoring the hiker by pledging a certain monetary amount to the charity based on the number of miles completed.

and

2. Sponsoring the hiker by underwriting the costs of his/her hike with monetary or gear gifts to the hikers themselves.

I have no issue with sponsorship type 1 -- this is a win-win situation for the charity. Regardless of how many miles the hiker completes, the charity directly benefits.

Sponsorship type 2 is the one I take issue with. Why on earth do folks think it is ethical to accept gifts or contributions to cover their PERSONAL expenses in the name of a non-profit organization? This is money that you are diverting from the non-profit and into your own pocket. How can someone feel good about this? Even if a sponsor is donating gear or food (i.e. "donations in-kind"), those donations can be auctioned off by the charity or used in some other manner that directly translates into income to support their mission.

If you are going to hike/run/bike/etc. for charity, isn't it YOUR responsibility to cover the cost of your effort, not the responsibility of kind-hearted donors who think that somehow, buying you a new Therm-a-Rest is going to translate into bigger contributions for the charity you have selected?

Think about it.

DawnTreader
01-23-2007, 16:30
Common people, the guy just wants us to check out his website. He didn't ask for opinions about dogs on the trail, or why his charity isn't good enough... show some respect

jesse
01-23-2007, 16:32
It's a grueling journey even for larger, younger and much more robust dogs.

yea, but, one little dog is such a small sacrifice to save so many apes!!

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 16:33
DawnTreader

Thank you.

Just a Hiker
01-23-2007, 16:37
Hello, I have a comment or two on this topic. It seems that everyone has a cause these days, which is a good thing I guess. I suppose it proves that we care about the world around us. I have dedicated my life to help homeless veterans and the Appalachian Trail because the trail helped save my life and I was once a homless veteran. So I understand your passion for your cause.

What you are to do is help your cause utilizing the AT as your vehicle, which is fine, but please don't forget about the trail. I see people every year who make a ton of money off the trail and you never see them again. I just ask you to please give something back to the trail. Whether its cash or some trail maintenance, it doesn't matter, but don't forget the trail and the people who will change your life on the trail.

Take care,


Just Jim

QHShowoman
01-23-2007, 16:38
Common people, the guy just wants us to check out his website. He didn't ask for opinions about dogs on the trail, or why his charity isn't good enough... show some respect

Since when is having a dissenting opinion disrespectful? This is a discussion forum -- discuss is what we do here. When you post something in a public forum such as this one, you are inviting discussion and debate. That's what such a forum is for. If you don't want to hear contrasting views and opinions, then don't post -- it's that simple.

If someone posts solely for advertising reasons, as you suggest, I would be inclined to regard that post as "spam" and alert the administrators of this site.

Can you imagine how boring this BBS would be if all the threads simply contained a single post and no responses?

Sly
01-23-2007, 16:40
Instead of working to save animals, why not choose a charity that might save humans?? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people put the life of an animal above the life of a human. These animals are tested in order to save humans. Without animal testing, we would still have women dying after childbirth. It was testing of the rhesus monkey that has saved many women's lives. Why not donate money to an orphanage instead. Chimps are tested for a reason. They are the closest animal DNA wise to humans. They are not an endangered species. Let's get our priorities straight here.

Humans are over rated. And since humans aren't in danger of extinction anytime soon, why bother with testing on animals/monkeys to save human life?

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 16:51
We have and will continue to support the trail in any way that we can.

My wife and I do love to help animals but that does not mean we don't care about people also, for some of you above. This past year we helped organize and run an event that was on the National Mall in Washington DC. The event benifited kids who need prostetic limbs. The event was called Kicking for Kids Who Can't (www.kickingforkidswhocant.org (http://www.kickingforkidswhocant.org)).

Thank you.

Mother's Finest
01-23-2007, 16:56
anybody watch Nature on PBS? They are currently showing a best of the last 25 years. I watched it this past weekend and was in tears. Had a women who had helped find homes for a group of lab released chimps in Florida. She had not seen them in maybe 20 years. They are now old, but they clearly recognized and hugged and loved and missed her.

pretty good timing tmeinberg. You have a check coming from me for the NEVS. I will also send you another check for twice that amount after you guys summit and send me a pic.

peace
mf

Mother's Finest
01-23-2007, 16:57
Sly, you and I think alike.

peace
mf

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 17:02
Mothers Finest

Thank You very much!!!

There are some wonderful stories on R & R's website, you should check them out. http://www.releasechimps.org

We are working close with R & R also, so look for us there soon.

4eyedbuzzard
01-23-2007, 17:39
I must assume by your silence that you either choose to avoid or cannot answer the question as to which species, based upon taxonomic categorization, deserve to be excluded from being used in medical research, and which do not.:-? It isn't a trick question, but it is one that must be answered by those who propose legislative protection. So where do we draw the line as to which species? At the apes? All primates? All mammals?(I just got the lab rat vote;))

As a buzzard, I'm kind of partial to including our feathered friends as well.:D

SillyGirl
01-23-2007, 17:48
I have not read every single comment on this post so sorry if it is repetative. I noticed at the begining of this thread there were some who were putting the initial poster down about decisions being made regarding animal cruelty, etc. Instead of making people feel bad on a public forum for things they have or have not done maybe we should all concentrate on improving our own lives... Or sending individuals private messages expressing your concerns on hypocracy and such. The reason I chose to post this as opposed to sending private messages has to do with the fact that multiple people were making the same type of comments. In no way is this an attack on anyone, I am just saying people can not and never will be perfect. if you get what i mean...

Lilred
01-23-2007, 18:17
Humans are over rated. And since humans aren't in danger of extinction anytime soon, why bother with testing on animals/monkeys to save human life?

I'd love to hear you explain that rationale to a parent who's child has muscular dystrophy or some form of cancer. Until you hold your dying child in your arms, you have no idea how unnerving this kind of comment can be. Or how unnerving it is to hear someone be against animal testing. God forbid you should ever have to be in this situation.

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 18:28
I gotta agree here. Taking a SEVEN year old Bichon (a toy dog, bred to be a pampered lapdog) on a 2000+ mile hike really would be cruel. It's a grueling journey even for larger, younger and much more robust dogs.

Actually, she's an extremely healthy dog who adores hiking. We take her on day hikes and she just loves romping and enjoying the outdoors. I of course do know that the AT is quite a bit more strenuous than a day hike however.
We're really not cruel or hypocritical when we will be watching her for any signs of medical dsitress and taking it quite slowly when we need to. Of all the people in the world, my wife is the last person to let anything bad happen to her pup.

My wife is also a trained vet tech, so we have her knowledge to help us out. Thanks for your comments though, I do understand where you are coming from, but really, our dog won't be in any more danger than my wife or I. :)

max patch
01-23-2007, 18:40
I do understand where you are coming from, but really, our dog won't be in any more danger than my wife or I. :)

I went to your website and saw that little dog that you plan on taking.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but as a former thru-hiker I have an obligation to respond.

She ain't gonna make it.

I hope you reconsider and hike without her.

If you do take her along I hope you are able to send her home before tragedy strikes.

Big mistake.

Obligation fulfilled.

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 18:47
Common people, the guy just wants us to check out his website. He didn't ask for opinions about dogs on the trail, or why his charity isn't good enough... show some respect

Thanks Dawn Treader, for your comment. And I love the name--great literary reference, I wish I had thought of it for my wife--she adores the book and chronicles.

I will respect what you posted the most, and take your mindset.

Thanks for all of your comments. Just check out the site. If you want to. If you don't--or if you don't agree with anything we're doing, don't check out the site. Don't expand your thinking at all. It's ok. It won't hurt me, or the chimps, or my wife, or my dog. It will just mean that you don't want to check out the site.

:p All we're trying to do is a little bit of good. Who does that hurt?

Thanks!

weary
01-23-2007, 18:53
Hello, I have a comment or two on this topic. It seems that everyone has a cause these days, which is a good thing I guess. I suppose it proves that we care about the world around us. I have dedicated my life to help homeless veterans and the Appalachian Trail because the trail helped save my life and I was once a homless veteran. So I understand your passion for your cause.

What you are to do is help your cause utilizing the AT as your vehicle, which is fine, but please don't forget about the trail. I see people every year who make a ton of money off the trail and you never see them again. I just ask you to please give something back to the trail. Whether its cash or some trail maintenance, it doesn't matter, but don't forget the trail and the people who will change your life on the trail. take care, Just Jim
I agree completely, and would go even further. The trail also needs the charity of hikers. Like all the National Parks it is underfunded. As are most of the major hiking groups. A $150 million industrial development is likely to be built on a ridgeline a mile from the trail in Maine because too few dollars were contributed to properly oppose it, and now to mount a viable appeal.

We all profess to love the trail. Very few show that love by doing anything to protect the trail.

Weary www.matc.org

Just hit the donate button and then the "in memory of" button and type REdington.

tmeinberg
01-23-2007, 18:54
We have and will continue to support the trail in any way that we can.

My wife and I do love to help animals but that does not mean we don't care about people also, for some of you above. This past year we helped organize and run an event that was on the National Mall in Washington DC. The event benifited kids who need prostetic limbs. The event was called Kicking for Kids Who Can't (www.kickingforkidswhocant.org (http://www.kickingforkidswhocant.org)).

Thank you.

I'm sorry I posted that. I shouldn't have to justify my continuing need to help and be a good person and put goodness out to the world.

I regret posting that. There is no need for me to justify what I am doing, I am happy with it. And there are no negative reprecussions for the cause which we are raising money for, which you would know if you researched the information on the cause as well as I have.

Thanks. I'm really done this time. :)

Overpass
01-23-2007, 18:56
she just loves romping

"Romping" and sheer drop-offs don't mix. I was rock climbing a few years ago and had the unforgettable experience of witnessing the aftermath of a day-hiker's romping pooch who got too close to the edge...

Mother's Finest
01-23-2007, 19:26
Allright Weary,

your post is the most thoughtful one I have read on this thread yet. (other than my own of course)

Challenge met. I just clicked the donate button for the same amount I am giving to the Monkey Charity.

It was in memory of Redington. I hope the caps did not have to be there.

I do not have a lot of free time, so $$ is about all I can give.

anybody else out there on WB reading this today, do what I did (if you can swing it) If you do not believe in the Monkey Charity, double your donation to the boys in Maine....

peace
mf

Webs
01-23-2007, 22:05
Instead of working to save animals, why not choose a charity that might save humans?? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people put the life of an animal above the life of a human. These animals are tested in order to save humans. Without animal testing, we would still have women dying after childbirth. It was testing of the rhesus monkey that has saved many women's lives. Why not donate money to an orphanage instead. Chimps are tested for a reason. They are the closest animal DNA wise to humans. They are not an endangered species. Let's get our priorities straight here.


My thoughts exactly!! People are made in God's image, so why so blatantly misapply the funds to lesser causes than helping fellow man?

On another note, I do think it's great that you're trying to make your excursion have a purpose bigger than just your own enjoyment; but again, priorities!

jm2c

Bilko
01-23-2007, 22:16
The webpage states: This is a call for sponsors: we are looking for anyone who is interested in helping support our hike. No donation is too small, and in return we will give you an ad space on our website as well as a logo on the tshirts that we will be wearing as we hike the trail.

Support your own hike, let people contribute straight to the cause. They shouldn't support your hike. But if you can get away with it, go for it. PT Barnum was right. There are suckers born every minute.

Sly
01-23-2007, 22:30
My thoughts exactly!! People are made in God's image, so why so blatantly misapply the funds to lesser causes than helping fellow man?


According to whom? And why would you think God would only want to help man?

You need to get out more an observe His wonderful creatures in the wild. Frankly, it's thinking like this that has me completely turned off to religion and man to a certain extent. :mad:

Overpass
01-23-2007, 22:36
People are made in God's image
Which "god"??:-?

Sly
01-23-2007, 22:38
Which "god"??:-?

I didn't want to go there but I completely agree... using the god argument works several ways.

Overpass
01-23-2007, 22:50
Think of the childr...er, chimps! Oh the humanity :eek:

Sly
01-23-2007, 22:52
I'd love to hear you explain that rationale to a parent who's child has muscular dystrophy or some form of cancer. Until you hold your dying child in your arms, you have no idea how unnerving this kind of comment can be. Or how unnerving it is to hear someone be against animal testing. God forbid you should ever have to be in this situation.

Sorry, I don't have to explain my rationale to anyone. I'm well versed in family dying, and recently watched my girl friend die. I still don't believe in animal testing and neither did she.

Blissful
01-23-2007, 22:54
According to whom? And why would you think God would only want to help man?

You need to get out more an observe His wonderful creatures in the wild. Frankly, it's thinking like this that has me completely turned off to religion and man to a certain extent. :mad:

Well, since this opened up - that's why I don't go by what man or a religion says. I reach for the Bible. :)
And in there it plainly says that God feeds the birds, are we not more value than they? (Matt 6:26)

We have a responsibility to care for animals just like everything else on this planet, to be good stewards of this wonderful creation. But God also gave man dominion over every living thing. (Gen 1:26) He did not give animals dominion over man.

Sly
01-23-2007, 22:57
He did not give animals dominion over man.

You haven't hiked in Griz or mountain lion country.

Lone Wolf
01-23-2007, 22:57
www.petakillsanimals.com/

rafe
01-23-2007, 22:57
Well, since this opened up - that's why I don't go by what man or a religion says. I reach for the Bible. :)

The Bible says it's OK to have slaves. And that the punishment for adultery is death by stoning. :rolleyes:

Blissful
01-23-2007, 22:58
Sorry, I don't have to explain my rationale to anyone. I'm well versed in family dying, and recently watched my girl friend die. I still don't believe in animal testing and neither did she.

Death is really hard. I just got back tonight from a wake of a little two month old baby that had died and watched their parents cradle that little boy in their arms, not wanting to let go. Tomorrow is the funeral.

It's hard. I'm sorry for your loss.

Blissful
01-23-2007, 22:59
You haven't hiked in Griz or mountain lion country.


Now that is funny. Thanks, I needed a laugh tonight. :sun

Overpass
01-23-2007, 23:01
I don't go by what man or a religion says. I reach for the Bible.

:datz

See above.

Overpass
01-23-2007, 23:06
Well, since this opened up - that's why I don't go by what man or a religion says. I reach for the Bible. :)

Last time I heard someone "reach for the bible", they came up with this:

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

:D

Blissful
01-23-2007, 23:07
The Bible says it's OK to have slaves. And that the punishment for adultery is death by stoning. :rolleyes:


Hey But you without sin cast that first stone!!! :D he he

Sure I mean people can derive all kinds of things from bits and pieces without looking at the Bible in its entire context. There's plenty of things in the Bible I don't understand either. Nor do I understand why that two month old baby died. But that doesn't shake my faith. I figure God will answer all my questions when I see Him. And I have plenty.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Sly
01-23-2007, 23:08
www.petakillsanimals.com/ (http://www.petakillsanimals.com/)

I'm not into PETA and it's not like I'm a vegan either, although I think we could all get by without eating meat. It's one thing to produce food to directly keep people alive and another to test them with the hopes of saving a live in the future.

I guess it all depends on when you believe in life. For instance, I'm all for embryonic stem cell research. I tend to doubt some of the others in favor of animal research go this far on religious grounds.

.

rafe
01-23-2007, 23:09
Sure I mean people can derive all kinds of things from bits and pieces without looking at the Bible in its entire context.

The devil can quote scripture for his purposes. -- William Shakespeare

Lone Wolf
01-23-2007, 23:14
I think we could all get by without eating meat.

.

i would die without smoked pork bbq.

rafe
01-23-2007, 23:23
Best way to eat less meat is to really study how the critters are raised, then slaughtered and "processed." (Pigs are the worst.) Makes you want to chomp down on a carrot. I'm not remotely a vegetarian -- but if I had to hunt, kill, clean and dress the meat I ate -- I probably would be. I can't even stand to stuff a Thanksgiving turkey. I'd rather go to the Great Wall (local Chinese food) and eat moo-shi.

dperry
01-23-2007, 23:28
Great idea. Let's use humans for research instead.:rolleyes:

At what point in the taxonomic order does research become okay?:-?
[/indent]

Or, to look at another angle, why is it OK for a bear to eat fish, but it's not OK for me to eat fish?

map man
01-23-2007, 23:32
When we humans are at our best (admitedly, not as often as we would all like), compassion is one of our great virtues. Compassion for members of our immediate family comes naturally to most of us, I think. From there, when we are at our best, we are able to extend compassion out to our neighbors. And beyond them to other members of our tribe. And beyond them to other tribes. And beyond them to the people of other nations. And yes, as homo sapiens, out to other living organisms too.:sun

Good luck with your hike, tmeinberg. And please consider the advice of a couple other posters so far, to direct all contributions to the charity and none toward supporting the hike itself, just in case you weren't planning to do this already.

dperry
01-23-2007, 23:34
Humans are over rated. And since humans aren't in danger of extinction anytime soon, why bother with testing on animals/monkeys to save human life?

Hey, when all of the other species on Earth agree to stop trying to out-compete me in the evolutionary race, I'll agree to do the same. Until then, I figure it's every life form for itself.


You haven't hiked in Griz or mountain lion country.While the animals win a game here and there, over the whole season I'd have to say they're doing pretty badly. :-?

map man
01-23-2007, 23:45
As for man having dominion over all other living things, I think there are some organisms at the microscopic level that haven't gotten THE WORD yet:D .

RedneckRye
01-23-2007, 23:46
I LOVE WhiteBlaze in the wintertime!!!
LOVE IT!!!
LOVE IT!!!
LOVE IT!!!
This is SO MUCH fun!!!

Almost There
01-23-2007, 23:46
I'm all for animals....and as of right now I am going to the Super Bowl!!!

GO BEARS!!!:D

rafe
01-23-2007, 23:47
Or, to look at another angle, why is it OK for a bear to eat fish, but it's not OK for me to eat fish?

Did you catch that fish with your own claws, waiting patiently over a rapids? If you did, you're certainly entitled to it. OTOH, the world's oceans are in pretty poor shape right now.

Jack Tarlin
01-23-2007, 23:54
Terrapin: Nice quote from Shakespeare, but he actually wrote: "The devil can cite scripture for his purpose...." It's from Merchant of Venice.

And Sly: Last time I served you dinner at Janet's, I sem to remember it was a lasagna that had around 11 pounds of burger and sausage in it. You say we should all get by without meat, but I seem to recall that you were quite pleased with your position in the food chain that evening, unless your second and third helpings were only an attempt to be polite to the chef. :D

rafe
01-24-2007, 00:05
The odd thing is that we clearly have dominion over all the medium and large-sized animals that we're likely to encounter. It's the small and microscopic ones that will do us in. ;)

dperry
01-24-2007, 00:07
Did you catch that fish with your own claws, waiting patiently over a rapids? If you did, you're certainly entitled to it. OTOH, the world's oceans are in pretty poor shape right now.

Actually, I evolved my brain to the point where I could conceive of the idea of paying someone else to wait patiently over an ocean and catch fish for me, using the devices that their highly evolved brains came up with to greatly increase the efficiency of fish-catching over the use of bare hands. Seems like a pretty natural process to me.

All of this, of course, ignores the point that neither the "naturalness" of the way we catch fish, nor the stupidity we commit in using up our resources faster than they can replenish themselves (although I suspect that if things keep going the way they are, people are going to start putting a lot more effort into improving aquaculture) settles the moral point here. PETA doesn't care if I only catch one fish with my bare hands; they still think it's immoral for me to eat it. I still want to know why the bear is free to do this and I'm not.

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2007, 00:08
Actually, they don't worry me, Terrapin.

The greatest threat to our species is other members of our own species.

dperry
01-24-2007, 00:13
The odd thing is that we clearly have dominion over all the medium and large-sized animals that we're likely to encounter. It's the small and microscopic ones that will do us in. ;)

Actually, we're doing awfully well even against those little guys these days, at least in developed countries. Frankly, most people in this country nowadays die from self-inflicted damage of one kind or another.

rafe
01-24-2007, 00:15
The greatest threat to our species is other members of our own species.

I mostly agree with that. I've just about given up on humans ever wising up. A lot of my anger (and concern) these days involves what we're doing to our planet. We may be well past the point of "fixing" things.

rafe
01-24-2007, 00:28
Actually, we're doing awfully well even against those little guys these days, at least in developed countries. Frankly, most people in this country nowadays die from self-inflicted damage of one kind or another.

We keep hearing about the possibility of another flu (H5N1) pandemic. These things happen. Evolution never stops; antibiotics have noticeably influenced the evolution of numerous disease organisms. The flu pandemic (of 1918) killed something like 50-100 million humans worldwide. The Bubonic plague killed 1/3 of Europe's population (1348.) Even the "conquered" diseases like polio could make a comeback if routine vaccination isn't done on a global basis.

Sleepy the Arab
01-24-2007, 00:32
We keep hearing about the possibility of another flu (H5N1) pandemic. These things happen. Evolution never stops; antibiotics have noticeably influenced the evolution of numerous disease organisms. The flu pandemic (of 1918) killed something like 50-100 million humans worldwide. The Bubonic plague killed 1/3 of Europe's population (1348.) Even the "conquered" diseases like polio could make a comeback if routine vaccination isn't done on a global basis.

Y'know, according to some guy I met at Hiker's Welcome in Glencliff, viruses don't mutate.

This thread spun wildly out of control in a short amount of time. We must have cabin fever. All computer and no hiking make jack a dull boy.

RAT
01-24-2007, 00:36
(I just got the lab rat vote;))

I am all for saving RAT's ! (Altho I am of the mountain variety) ;) And save the whales, dolphins, and the monkeys, we can eat them later :) I dont see how Vegans make it on a thru hike, I have converted a few at Brown Gap.

Really I am just kidding (except about the converting Vegan part) , whatever you want to do on your hike is your business. Helping monkeys, humans, rats, or raising money like my close and dear friend ModelT just did on his 4th thru hike to build a salvation army building in his hometown, its all good ! Go with it and have a good time and hopefully you`ll make it and raise alot of dough. Good luck to your little dog too ;)

RAT

dperry
01-24-2007, 01:11
We keep hearing about the possibility of another flu (H5N1) pandemic. These things happen. Evolution never stops; antibiotics have noticeably influenced the evolution of numerous disease organisms. The flu pandemic (of 1918) killed something like 50-100 million humans worldwide. The Bubonic plague killed 1/3 of Europe's population (1348.) Even the "conquered" diseases like polio could make a comeback if routine vaccination isn't done on a global basis.

I knew you were going to bring up the bird flu. ;)

a.) It's not yet clear that the bird flu is going to happen.
b.) If it does happen, it's not yet clear that it will be as virulent as the Spanish flu was.
c.) If it is highly virulent, it's quite unclear that we won't have significantly improved techniques to fight it by the time it becomes epidemic, or that we don't already have those techniques (for instance, there is an argument that many of the Spanish flu deaths were actually caused by secondary infections which took advantage of people's weakened immune systems. We can control many of those infections much more effectively now than we could then.)
d.) Even if it does become epidemic, and even if it kills 200 million people, which is twice the high estimate for the Spanish flu, since the population of the world is now more than three times what it was then, the percentage of people dying would still be considerably lower. No one is seriously arguing that any non-humanly caused epidemic would cause our extinction, or even set back civilization more than ten years or so.

And you make my point quite well for me: the Black Death and the Spanish flu were a long time ago, in much more primitive societies (particularly the former, of course). In the developed world, life expectancy is basically double what it was in 1900. Most of that is due to the elimination of diseases caused by microscopic life forms. And look at what we are talking about in the gloom-and-doom predictions about the bird flu: one of the most highly pathogenic organisms in the history of medicine, taking us completely by surprise, and assuming no significant preparation on the part
of society and no significant advances in vaccines and other treatments. I'd say that says pretty good things about our success against the little beasties if all of that is going to be required for a pandemic.

(Note to the easily outraged: Yes, I do think 200 million deaths would be horrible beyond words; no, I do not think we should take such a prospect lightly; yes, we should do all we can to make sure that such a thing does not happen. The point is merely to note how far we've come in these matters.)

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 01:20
PETA doesn't care if I only catch one fish with my bare hands; they still think it's immoral for me to eat it. I still want to know why the bear is free to do this and I'm not.

Well it would be nice if PETA was just another sanctimonious "agenda du jour" group. But the reality is that they are not just pro-animal - they are anti-human.

PETA in a nutshell - the true colors:

“There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about -- what’s this with all these reforms -- you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation. [emphasis added]”
— “Animal Rights 2002” convention, 6/30/02


"...when PETA learned that the photographs of Holocaust victims displayed in its roving exhibit -- entitled “The Holocaust on Your Plate” -- included Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel as a young man at the Buchenwald concentration camp, it shrugged. “Six million people died in concentration camps,” laments Ingrid Newkirk, “but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses.”
— The Washington Post, 11/13/83

Sly
01-24-2007, 01:44
I've found a compromise. Maybe we should just clone people and then experiment on them! :p

n2o2diver
01-24-2007, 02:48
What about cloned animals? :-?

Sly
01-24-2007, 03:05
What about cloned animals? :-?

What about them? Seems to me if people want a cure for human diseases it's best to experiment with humans or human clones.

Why screw up a prefectly good chimpanzee?

fonsie
01-24-2007, 07:22
I wish someone would sponser me or meet me at road crossings with supplies......In my eyes thats not a thru hike for me. Save your money, pay your own bills, carry your own gear and resupply your self. Come and your taking a toy dog....Im sorry I am so negative but dam do it for your selves. Are you really going to have someone pay for your thru hike, that sucks for people like myself that save and have to move out of there home. Quite my job so I can do this 6 month hike. Thats why I don't like to talk to people like you. I appallogize for my negativity but I will not consider you as a thru hiker if you do it to get your name in a magazine. I am doing my thru hike just to do it. Never mind I will shut up>>>

Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 09:36
that sucks for people like myself that save and have to move out of there home. Quite my job so I can do this 6 month hike.

Hiking the whole AT is not a necessity. Quit whining.

rafe
01-24-2007, 09:48
Note to the easily outraged: Yes, I do think 200 million deaths would be horrible beyond words; no, I do not think we should take such a prospect lightly; yes, we should do all we can to make sure that such a thing does not happen. The point is merely to note how far we've come in these matters.

Just how far have we come, dperry? Our response to Katrina was pathetic. And that was in the USA, the most "developed" country in the world. With regard to avian flu, nobody knows when or if it will happen or how it will unfold. The world's a lot more crowded now than it was in 1918 or 1348. We know a lot more than we did, but nature always seems to have a new trick or two up her sleeve.

Mother's Finest
01-24-2007, 11:13
I looked at the website, I decided to donate money to the cause they are pushing, not to "sponsor their thru hike". I sent a check written in the name of the charity to their address. This is written at the bottom of the page.

So what if they are asking for sponsorship....First of all, if you don't ask, you don't get in this capitalist world. There are many out here (some of my best friends included) that believe that if you pray hard enough, it will come. I think that is a nice sentiment, but not realistic. But that is why metaphysics is such a poisonous topic. Too many humans "know" about the great unknowns.

Ultimately, as with any cancer, we will destroy our host. Humans have been progressively overspreading the planet and wasting resources. It will all end at some point. It certainly will not end in Rapture for the Chosen.

Going to hell and loving it.

peace
mf

Almost There
01-24-2007, 11:14
Hiking the whole AT is not a necessity. Quit whining.

Fonsie,

I gotta go with Wolf on this one, if you feel hiking the whole trail in some way will make your life worse...then don't do it! Be a section hiker instead! No one is making you hike, just as no one is making anyone donate to anyone else's hike.

QHShowoman
01-24-2007, 11:49
So what if they are asking for sponsorship....First of all, if you don't ask, you don't get in this capitalist world.

I see no problem with asking for sponsorship -- activities such as thru-hiking are costly and if someone wants to help fund your hike, so be it. Some gear manufacturers will sponsor athletes with donations of gear and such, because it is a good way for manufacturers to advertise their products while testing them in the process.

My issue is that asking for sponsorship in conjunction with a fundraiser is a bit disingenuous and in many cases, misleading. Sponsors are often mislead to believe that somehow, their donation of gear, food, etc., to the athlete will somehow directly benefit the charity. This is not the case.

When a sponsor donates an item to a registered 501 c(3) charity directly, the sponsor gets to use the appraised or fair market value of that item as a charitable deduction on their tax returns. The charity can then use the item, auction it off for greater value, etc., so it is a win-win situation all around. This is not the case when a sponsor donates an item to an individual. The only person that benefits from such a sponsorship is the individual himself.

Now, that's not to say that personal sponsorships can't peacefully co-exist with a thru-hike to benefit a selected charity, because I believe they can. I think it is up to the hiker, however, to inform the potential sponsor of how their donation will be used and that sponsorships WILL NOT directly benefit the charity. The other things that hikers can do is offset the sponsorship by personally making an equivalent donation to the charity -- i.e. a sponsor donates a case of dehydrated meals to the hiker, and the hiker donates the value of those meals to the charity in honor of the sponsor.

Just some ideas.

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 11:54
Hiking the whole AT is not a necessity. Quit whining.

Ya mean things like careers, family, and real world responsibilities should come first? Are you suggesting a thru-hike is but a selfish indulgence? :-? Say it ain't so.;)

Sly
01-24-2007, 12:09
Ya mean things like careers, family, and real world responsibilities should come first? Are you suggesting a thru-hike is but a selfish indulgence? :-? Say it ain't so.;)

I guess that all depends on your priorities. I have no family to take care of, no career to speak of, and no real world responsibilities I can't already take care of. Y'all want to be stuck in the real world? Go for it, just don't play the guilt trip card on others.

rafe
01-24-2007, 12:10
Ya mean things like careers, family, and real world responsibilities should come first? Are you suggesting a thru-hike is but a selfish indulgence? :-? Say it ain't so.;)

You mean, like we're all a bunch of self-indulgent narcissists? :D Say it ain't so!

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 14:04
I guess that all depends on your priorities. I have no family to take care of, no career to speak of, and no real world responsibilities I can't already take care of. Y'all want to be stuck in the real world? Go for it, just don't play the guilt trip card on others.

It's not a guilt trip card. It's a reality check. Guilt is the sole creation of it's owner.

For better and worse, we are all part and parcel of this imperfect civilization, and all of us except perhaps some "trust fund" babies wind up earning our keep to some extent. In that sense, yes, we are all "stuck" in it. The AT would not even exist without both the good and bad wrought by the industrialized world, nor would much of the equipment or public property we regularly use to do so. Thru-hiking the AT provides an escape, and may even change one's perception of this civilization, but it in no way changes civilization or our membership in it. As most of us hold the view that civilization should be progressive, we tend to think citizens have a responsibility to participate in this process, and at a minimum earn their own keep. Some may call this being stuck, others may call it choosing to participate. What's more important? Tough question. There is the concept(as noted in one member's signature) that one will regret the things they didn't do more in twenty years more than those things they did. It's a double-edged curse. One might easily live to regret not keeping a good job in order to hike the AT just as easily as the opposite. As you have noted, priorites and perception do indeed differ. My opinion is that hiking the AT should not be the first priority in one's life. The inescapable real world, the one to which every vacationing hiker returns, should come first. If someone has their life in order enough to take a 6 month vacation, they should do exactly as they wish.

Hiking the AT consumes resources and time - it produces absolutely nothing. If one choses to use the fruits of their labor to take a 6 month vacation, I think that is fine. It's a wonderful adventurous vacation and a fulfilling personal achievement. They have earned it and are free to consume their capital as they choose fit, and should harbor no guilt having earned their right to do so. But I get a bit tired of those who would assign some delusional purpose to a hike beyond personal recreation, and especially those who outright solicit contributions for their personal vacation fund, be it through begging or assignment to "hiking for charity." In the final analysis an AT hike is nothing more than a vacation from the real world - the very real world that inspired and produced the AT in the first place with all the civilized aluminum, titanium, and nylon that goes with it.

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 14:07
You mean, like we're all a bunch of self-indulgent narcissists? :D Say it ain't so!

We have met the enemy, and... DOH!:datz

The Weasel
01-24-2007, 14:10
Early in this thread I encouraged those who started it to be a little bit laid back about mentioning their "fundraising" to AT thruhikers......

The foregoing 80 or so messages sort of prove my point. If you're gonna do it, don't mention it to AT people unless you're ready for the debate.

The Weasel

Almost There
01-24-2007, 14:10
I guess that all depends on your priorities. I have no family to take care of, no career to speak of, and no real world responsibilities I can't already take care of. Y'all want to be stuck in the real world? Go for it, just don't play the guilt trip card on others.

No one's playing a guilt card...do what you want, you don't have other responsibilities and so you are free to do as you choose. Those of us that do...that's our choice, but to complain about someone taking the "easy" way because they don't do it the way you do....they're the whiners. It's like the story you told me about Maine and the slackpacking "cheaters".:D

Why should anyone feel guilty for following their heart?

Sly
01-24-2007, 14:14
No one's playing a guilt card...-



Seemed to me 4eyedbuzzard was...

The Old Fhart
01-24-2007, 14:16
4eyedbuzzard-"Hiking the AT consumes resources and time - it produces absolutely nothing." Wow! That entire post was great. One of the best descriptions of the impact and importance of a thru hike I've seen, and the best reason to fund your own hike. That outlook must come from your living in northern NH.;) (I'm a W.Milan native)

Sly
01-24-2007, 14:19
Hiking the AT consumes resources and time - it produces absolutely nothing.Blah, blah, blah... I can't recall signing any membership. I take care of my needs and wants. You want to feel you're a contributing member of society that makes the world a better place, be my guest. I won't be missed.

The Old Fhart
01-24-2007, 14:29
Sly-"I won't be missed."That's where your wrong, Sly. Just the other day I saw a photo of you and I at the hiker feed near Flagstaff Lake in '98 and that brought back fond memories. Like George Bailey in 'It's A Wonderful Life', you can never guage the impact, even you;), have on others.

Sly
01-24-2007, 14:36
LOL... comparing me to George Bailey, that's a stretch. Yes, I'm sure the Home Depot will me. Nothing like cheap, slave labor. For the next few years, if all goes well you'll be able to see my life on DVD hiking on the trails out West. Have any favorite tunes you'd like me to put it to?

Tha Wookie
01-24-2007, 14:38
The greatest threat to our species is other members of our own species.


yeah, except for that giant asteroid bearing down on us right now from two galaxies over.

We'll all be chimpburgers.

;)

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 14:57
Seemed to me 4eyedbuzzard was...{playing a guilt card}

That was not my intent. My intent is that we should be truthful with ourselves and our motivations. When the hike ends, the only thing different in the world is our perception of it.

What I do find interesting however, is the mindset that civilization is oppressive enough to provide motivation for a most ironic escape using the very goods and services it provides, but not found worthy of similar effort to change said problems.

Sly
01-24-2007, 15:12
The world doesn't provide me any goods or services, I buy them. I work, I save, I go hiking. I've done it over and over again for the past 10 years. Before that, I worked, I saved and traveled to far off lands. Sometime in the middle, when I considered becoming mainsteam, I worked, I spent money on stupid **** and had nothing to show for it.

While I'll surely die a pauper, just as I came into this life, I'll live it to the fullest.

YMMV

Just a Hiker
01-24-2007, 15:26
Hello, this has turned out to be a great forum! People are really getting honest around here. 4eyedbuzzard and Sly have made some great points and here is my 2 cents worth.

The AT certainly is a 5 to 6 month escape from which nothing tangible is really produced. However, for me, its not about producing anything.......it's about FREEDOM! Freedom to do whatever I want when I want. Its freedom from the B.S. in this world and the personal knowledge that I can survive without the crap society says that I need to be happy and successful.

Those of us who have left the ''real world'' and joined the ''hiker trash world'' probably only have ourselves to care for. We don't have a lot of family, or a career, nor are we in debt up to our eyeballs. And its safe to say we like it that way! I see so many of the ''vacation hikers'' who tell me that they are so unhappy with their lives and they feel so trapped in a life that is so unfulfilling. They also say they would trade places with me in a heartbeat.

The AT has turned into a place where people can be free. No, it doesn't produce anything, but for 5 or 6 months a person can be happy and free.

QHShowoman
01-24-2007, 15:33
The world doesn't provide me any goods or services, I buy them. I work, I save, I go hiking.

Buzzard didn't say anything about the world GIVING you goods or services, s/he was just making the point that the motivation for some folks' thru-hike is to "get away from it all," yet, ironically, they "get away from it all" by hiking a trail crowded with hundreds of folks doing the same thing, punctuate their hike by going from town to town, all the while carrying the items made possible by the very civilization they are supposedly eschewing. It's kind of interesting when you think about it.

Which makes me ponder another question:
Why do folks who live in trail towns take in complete strangers and open up their homes to them and pick up hitchikers because they are thru-hikers, while many folks living elsewhere would pass by a family of 5 broke down on the side of the road with nary a second thought? Just wondering what the difference is...

Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 15:36
Why do folks who live in trail towns take in complete strangers and open up their homes to them

I own a home in a trail town but i don't take anyone in. Except some stray cats.

Mother's Finest
01-24-2007, 15:43
If you are going to spend six months hiking, why not attach a cause to your hike?

Instead of the hike being "just a vacation from the real world", it can actually be used for the greater good.

I know that when the time comes for me to go, it will be both for my own escape and for spinal cord research. Why? Because my best friend in the world cannot hike, nor will he likely ever be able to again. Until stem cell research (or some other as yet unknown science) can yield a cure for paralysis that is just the way it is.

So be aware, sometime in the next ten years, I will be soliciting for that cause.

I like the picture, Sly as George Bailey. You can't hide your kindness.

peace
mf

Sly
01-24-2007, 15:48
I'm guilty. I haven't got to the point yet where I make my own gear, but some have.

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 16:02
Buzzard didn't say anything about the world GIVING you goods or services, s/he was just making the point that the motivation for some folks' thru-hike is to "get away from it all," yet, ironically, they "get away from it all" by hiking a trail crowded with hundreds of folks doing the same thing, punctuate their hike by going from town to town, all the while carrying the items made possible by the very civilization they are supposedly eschewing.

:sun Thank you.

As Sly says, he works, saves up money and goes hiking. Cool.

On a different note: I do find those who find no good in the trappings of civilization and rant about its evils - but then eagerly consume goods and services such as synthetic fabrics, metals, plastics, stove fuel, processed foods, roads, stores, shelters, and even trails themselves - to be somewhat confused as to our place in this thing we call civilization.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2007, 16:04
:

On a different note: I do find those who find no good in the trappings of civilization and rant about its evils - but then eagerly consume goods and services such as synthetic fabrics, metals, plastics, stove fuel, processed foods, roads, stores, shelters, and even trails themselves - to be somewhat confused as to our place in this thing we call civilization.

they call them hypocrites i think.

Sly
01-24-2007, 16:12
On a different note: I do find those who find no good in the trappings of civilization and rant about its evils - but then eagerly consume goods and services such as synthetic fabrics, metals, plastics, stove fuel, processed foods, roads, stores, shelters, and even trails themselves - to be somewhat confused as to our place in this thing we call civilization.


Have a first hand example of such a person?

Just a Hiker
01-24-2007, 16:30
Again, this is a great discussion! I think a person can create a balance in this world and on the Appalachian Trail. I have been trying since I left the Marine Corps and it hasn't been easy. I did my first thru-hike with an old bookbag, a blanket, and a 4x8 piece of plastic. I lived out of hiker boxes and I worked my way up the trail. I didn't hike this way because I wanted to, but because I had drank myself homeless and I felt the AT just might save my ass. Luckily it did save my ass, and I have been hiking ever since. I have good gear now and you can bet I eat a good cheeseburger when I get to town. Those things are my reward to me for waking up every day and putting one foot in front of the other. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, I don't know for sure. I do know I have paid my dues to this world and I am hiking my own hike.


Just Jim

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 16:32
If you are going to spend six months hiking, why not attach a cause to your hike?

Instead of the hike being "just a vacation from the real world", it can actually be used for the greater good.

Part of the problem is that every group seems to have an "agenda du jour" and a corresponding attached "walk/run/activity for some worthy cause." I get an awful lot of solicitations for such things. As a result, I and probably many others simply tune them out. Just more background noise. When I want to donate money to charity, I do so. I don't need somebody wearing out his running shoes or hiking boots to motivate or entice me.

As a side note, why not skip the hike and donate 6 months pay to one's cause of choice? I'll bet it would amount to way more than any donations received for hiking. Me, I'm too selfish - that 6 months of income might just be what I need to fund my own thru-hike.

4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2007, 16:50
Again, this is a great discussion! I think a person can create a balance in this world and on the Appalachian Trail.
:) Perhaps at the root of HYOH?



I have been trying since I left the Marine Corps and it hasn't been easy. I did my first thru-hike with an old bookbag, a blanket, and a 4x8 piece of plastic. I lived out of hiker boxes and I worked my way up the trail.

Frickin' grunts...;) Pretty hardcore Jim. Congrats on your recovery.

Lilred
01-24-2007, 17:06
Y'know, according to some guy I met at Hiker's Welcome in Glencliff, viruses don't mutate.


Don't believe everything you hear. The Aids virus has gone through several mutations since its discovery. That's why it's so hard to come up with a vaccine for it.

As for the vegan arguement, that we should be eating plants, not meat, that's a bunch of hooey. If we were supposed to eat only plants, then why do we have canine teeth (eye teeth), which are used primarily for tearing and ripping meat up. Also, if we were only supposed to eat plants, our molars would be flat, like horses and cows, so we could grind the plants down. Our molars are shaped the way they are in order to better shred meat before swallowing.

And to all you vegans out there, if you're into it for health reasons, great. If you are vegans because you think it's cruel to eat animals, think about this. Research has proven that plants can feel. So next time you rip that plant out of the ground and start chopping it up, remember, it can feel what you are doing to it.

rickb
01-24-2007, 19:04
I am a carnivore, but any thinking person should realize that they way most of this country's factory farms treat animals is shameful.

I'll continue to buy at Wholefoods, when possible

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat-poultry/qs_programrequirements.html

Three cheers to thbose who are committed to making the suffering less.

Sleepy the Arab
01-24-2007, 19:39
Don't believe everything you hear.

I remember when the guy said it, I was so amazed at the mind numbing stupidity of the statement, that I was without a stinging retort. Even now I ask myself, "how can one respond appropriately to something so moronic?"

Bravo
01-25-2007, 02:28
If you are going to spend six months hiking, why not attach a cause to your hike?

Instead of the hike being "just a vacation from the real world", it can actually be used for the greater good.




First off I realized a while ago that my cause is ME. If you can't fix/take care of yourself than what can you take care of. Clean up your own house first before you go around trying to clean up anything else.

Right now I feel that a thru hike is what I need to clean my house. So I'm going.

Second I realized that without flyers, donations, websites, etc. that I'm also hiking this trail for all the people that never will. The people that say, "Oh I wish I could do that." "Man that would be so great I always wanted to do that."
Most people never will. Just like pro sports. Why does anyone give a f*** about football? I don't. I'm not playing. I'm not getting paid. Why would I scream at a TV for a few hours every Sunday? Because it feels good to dream and imagine that's why. I know a lot of people that don't have what it takes to thru but they will live vicariously through me for 5 months.

Third...What the f is the greater good? Please enlighten me.

PS I don't know about chimps but mice have saved more lives than 911.

bfitz
01-25-2007, 02:48
I wouldn't want to take on the the trail as an obligation to someone else. Especially if people donated money based on the assumption I was gonna follow through and I didn't finish, or didn't want to but felt I had to fulfil a promise or something.... Might seem like a bit of an ego-trip too.

Blue Jay
01-25-2007, 05:23
I wouldn't want to take on the the trail as an obligation to someone else.

OK that does it, yet another bfitz entry that makes sense. Who are you and how much is bfitz paying you?

Lone Wolf
01-25-2007, 07:12
I wouldn't want to take on the the trail as an obligation to someone else. Especially if people donated money based on the assumption I was gonna follow through and I didn't finish, or didn't want to but felt I had to fulfil a promise or something.... Might seem like a bit of an ego-trip too.

i met a girl in 92 that was "hiking for alzheimers". i pledged $50 if she made it to katahdin. long story short, she yellow-blazed and screwed her way to maine missing big sections of trail. this was well known by the "trail community". In sept. i got a letter in the mail saying she completed her hike and to send my pledge to a certain address. i sent no pledge. the charity lost out cuz she lied.

fonsie
01-25-2007, 07:23
Ok I was a ass last post I did. It's good to do it for a good cause. If I could do it for a cause it would be for a Orphanage Home. Or to help the Homeless get jobs and a stable roof above there heads. I admit I was homeless for about 7 months(Feb 2006-Sept 2006). I had a job at the time, but I was'nt making enough money to have a place to live. I slept in my truck and took a shower at the Gym. Some of these People can't get jobs because think about it. If someone asked for a job and they stunk and were wearing raged out clothes, would you give them a JOB???? Thats why I was upset that people colect money and have other people pay for there hike. Does someone noes of a Organazation that does help Orphans or the homeless??

Webs
01-25-2007, 10:56
Does someone noes of a Organazation that does help Orphans or the homeless??


Here in SC, there is an org called Oliver Gospel Mission, which provides homeless men with food, lodging, and help with recovering their lives. There's a website you can look at:

olivergospelmission.org

Heater
01-25-2007, 11:41
Does someone noes of a Organazation that does help Orphans or the homeless??

You could PM Model T.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=2363

...or visit his site:

http://www.modelt.net/HikeforHope.html

Rain Man
01-25-2007, 13:56
Shortly after my wife and I decided that we were going to attempt a thru-hike in 2007, we thought that it would be a great way to raise money for a great cause. We had seen other people that have done the same for various charities. So upon narrowing it down to charities that we felt strongly about we decided to go with Project R & R....

Tim & Megan,

Hike your own hike. Enjoy yourselves. And if you also do any good, well then God bless you and more power to you both.

Rain:sunMan

.

tmeinberg
01-25-2007, 14:26
Tim & Megan,

Hike your own hike. Enjoy yourselves. And if you also do any good, well then God bless you and more power to you both.

Rain:sunMan

.

Thank You Rain Man!

Nean
01-25-2007, 15:14
I wouldn't want to take on the the trail as an obligation to someone else. Especially if people donated money based on the assumption I was gonna follow through and I didn't finish, or didn't want to but felt I had to fulfil a promise or something.... Might seem like a bit of an ego-trip too.

I did. :-?

No need for assumption, pay based on milage after the trip,;) do what feels right to you:eek:

Yes it gave me a good feeling:o

Lilred
01-25-2007, 15:21
Ok I was a ass last post I did. It's good to do it for a good cause. If I could do it for a cause it would be for a Orphanage Home. Or to help the Homeless get jobs and a stable roof above there heads. I admit I was homeless for about 7 months(Feb 2006-Sept 2006). I had a job at the time, but I was'nt making enough money to have a place to live. I slept in my truck and took a shower at the Gym. Some of these People can't get jobs because think about it. If someone asked for a job and they stunk and were wearing raged out clothes, would you give them a JOB???? Thats why I was upset that people colect money and have other people pay for there hike. Does someone noes of a Organazation that does help Orphans or the homeless??


Potter's Children's Home in Scottsville KY. Our church helps support them and if I ever get to do a thru, I'd like to do it for them. Great place. They also help single mothers get an education and get back on their feet, especially those trying to get away from abusive husbands. They do it for the children.

smokymtnsteve
01-25-2007, 17:52
Instead of working to save animals, why not choose a charity that might save humans?? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people put the life of an animal above the life of a human. These animals are tested in order to save humans. Without animal testing, we would still have women dying after childbirth. It was testing of the rhesus monkey that has saved many women's lives. Why not donate money to an orphanage instead. Chimps are tested for a reason. They are the closest animal DNA wise to humans. They are not an endangered species. Let's get our priorities straight here.



i helped take care of and knew personally some of the chimps at yerkes primate center,,i'm very grateful for the vital medical research

smokymtnsteve
01-25-2007, 17:54
Instead of working to save animals, why not choose a charity that might save humans?? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people put the life of an animal above the life of a human. These animals are tested in order to save humans. Without animal testing, we would still have women dying after childbirth. It was testing of the rhesus monkey that has saved many women's lives. Why not donate money to an orphanage instead. Chimps are tested for a reason. They are the closest animal DNA wise to humans. They are not an endangered species. Let's get our priorities straight here.

right on littleredmg...medical research done with chimps has saved my life

i helped take care of and knew personally some of the chimps at yerkes primate center,,i'm very grateful for the vital medical research

smokymtnsteve
01-25-2007, 18:01
Hey But you without sin cast that first stone!!! :D he he

Sure I mean people can derive all kinds of things from bits and pieces without looking at the Bible in its entire context. There's plenty of things in the Bible I don't understand either. Nor do I understand why that two month old baby died. But that doesn't shake my faith. I figure God will answer all my questions when I see Him. And I have plenty.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

folks shouldn't have strong opinions about things they don't understand

i don't believe in sin so i'm sin free..stand back here comes ur stone

Rufous Sided Towhee
05-26-2007, 15:14
I gotta agree here. Taking a SEVEN year old Bichon (a toy dog, bred to be a pampered lapdog) on a 2000+ mile hike really would be cruel. It's a grueling journey even for larger, younger and much more robust dogs.

According to their website, they sent the dog home after 128 miles, then went home themselves a week later.

Darwin again
05-26-2007, 19:30
Trail dog or bait poodle?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rescuerocks/240477583/in/set-72157594289581646/

Rufous Sided Towhee
05-28-2007, 12:02
Trail dog or bait poodle?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rescuerocks/240477583/in/set-72157594289581646/

Is that a Nalgene bottle in that pic? :-?