Help warm me up at night.

[vaporjourney]

After spending a night at Gregory Bald in 4* weather, i'm starting to re-evaluate my clothing arsenal to stay warm in these extreme nights. I'm going to list my sleep-clothing list, and perhaps someone can recommend something to add/replace in it. I'm trying to stay relatively lightweight if at all possible. Also...i'm a pretty cold-natured person, and sleep cold.

Bag- Nunatak Arc Alpinist 20* quilt
Sleeping Pad- POE Insulated 2.5" Pad

Torso (inside to outside):

-Thin, cheap polypro long-sleeve from walmart
-Capline 3 zip-up L/S
-Montbell Thermawrap Insulated jacket
-Red Ledge Rain Jacket

Lower body:

-Capline 1 bottoms
-Smartwool midweight bottoms
-Thin waterproof nylon pants
-Thick Thorlo merino wool socks
-Loose Fleece socks to cover thorlo's

Head/Neck:

-Turtle Fur Beanie cap
-Turtle Fur neck gaiter

I am thinking of taking a pair of fleece pants, but really don't want to add the huge bulk, and an extra 13 oz to my pack. Also...my legs dont feel cold, but they would probably help. Also, I am probably going to replace the socks I use, with a pair of sealskinz to see if they can help my feet stay warm at night.

[Earl Grey]

Perhaps a warm sleeping bag? I think when you start getting into single digit temps its time to lose the quilt and use a bag.

[Lone Wolf]

are you sleeping in a tent?

[Fiddler]

For sure get a bag. I'd guess at least a 10 degree for single digits. You might also try a balaclava for the head and neck, I think they are better in the cold than a cap and neck gator.

[jlb2012]

did you use a hot water bottle?

[1azarus]

I really like wearing the Stephenson vapor barrier shirt in camp and through the night when colder than around 35 degrees. helped a lot, kept my other clothes weight down -- and was really very comfortable!!! less condensation than i thought, and weighs 6 ounces.... if you order one, ask them to leave the (silly) pocket off to save a little weight... by the way, my attempt at vapor barrier pants was a total failure. soooo uncomfortable. try www.warmlite.com/ for the shirt.

[TJ aka Teej]

After spending a night at Gregory Bald in 4* weather >snip< I'm trying to stay relatively lightweight if at all possible.

Staying alive is worth carrying extra pounds in your winter pack.

[Johnny Swank]

I'd lose the quilt and get a bag for those kinds of temps. Make sure to eat right before going to bed and stay well hydrated to keep you furnace stoked. An emergency bag made out of that mylar material used for space blankets is worth it's weight in gold for some of those really cold nights. You look like a baked potatoe, and they're noisy, but man are those things warm.

[The Weasel]

With that clothing, you should be retaining your body warmth. So some of the problem may be metabolic. Try these things, particularly in very cold weather:

- Make sure you urinate before going to bed. Holding fluids can reduce body temperature.
- Eat a small carb-rich snack if you haven't eaten in the last hour; the sugars in the carbs will help keep energy flowing.
- Make sure your head isn't lower than your feet, if possible; if feet are elevated, body fluids (which are warming) tend to drain from your feet, causing more rapid heat loss in them.
- Use mittens (I use socks) on your hands
- Put very warm water in your water bottle and stuff at the foot of your sleeping bag. Don't use boiling hot.

Hope this helps.

The Weasel

[Frosty]

Also, I am probably going to replace the socks I use, with a pair of sealskinz to see if they can help my feet stay warm at night.Sealskinz might help a lot. I use Stormkloth socks, much the same thing, on cold nights. I'm tall and my feet get vey cold sleeping. They make a big difference.

[stickat04]

I slept outside the other night in 8 degrees to test my set up. I was sweating at one point

tent
0 degree bag
Long john top (zyflex)
Fleece bottoms
heavy socks
hat

In tent i had but did not need to use
Mittens and a scarf

It was 22 degrees in my tent

I have used all above on a similar night minus the 0 degree bag but with a 20 degree bag and I froze. Going to a lower rated bag worked for me.

[jlb2012]

wrt to the placement of the hot water bottle - IMO the hot water bottle works better when held next to one's femoral artery - that is to say between one's thighs up near one's crotch. If the water in the bottle is too hot stick the bottle in a sock for safer handling. Generally best choice for a hot water bottle is a polycarbonate bottle like the see through Nalgenes.

[sparky2000]

I'm gona try out the soft sole mocossins for night warmth with dry socks.

[Jim Adams]

Down booties---not very small to pack but very light and warm.

[Tipi Walter]

Freedom in the winter(to come and go at will at any elevation)comes with three things(and I agree with stickat04):

Zero bag(Marmot Couloir/WM Puma come to mind)
Adequate R value pad(Prolite 4/Exped/Trail Lite/Trail Comfort series)
Tent

Hot water bottles, gloves, balaclavas, thermals, they really help too but without the Big Three a cold winter trip can stall out.

Another possible Fourth to the Big Three would be a basecamp down jacket or parka, though most backpackers avoid the high cost of a good one. And they are expensive. I do take a lighter weight down jacket which keeps me going at camp, but if I had to stay out all winter in a tent without a woodstove I would take the plunge for a $600 or $700 down parka like Mt Hardwear's Absolute Zero or Feathered Friends Rock & Ice parka. True survival items when you're out and Miss Nature wants to have some fun.

[PJ 2005]

have you tried a wool hat? it might be all in my head, but i always sleep warmer with wool on my head.

[minnesotasmith]

Is a fleece balaclava. I used one extensively for cold-night sleeping on both ends of my thruhike last year. These are like loose ski masks with a goggle-sized opening for the eyes. Get the larger, more expensive kind; the cheapies are too tight and uncomfortable.

Wish I'd had a synthetic-material version of down booties for sub-25-degree nights, though.

[bigcranky]

A couple of things to try, if you really want to make the quilt work:

1. A thicker jacket over your torso. The Thermawrap is a nice jacket, but it's awfully thin for single-digits under a quilt. A nice lofty down jacket would be warmer both under the quilt and around camp. The Alpine Light jacket, or the GoLite down sweater, that sort of thing.

2. A thicker hat, one with a windproof shell. Maybe make one of the synthetic-filled hoods? This should be much warmer than the fleece beanie. (Which you could wear underneath.)

3. Down Booties over a thin wool sock. I love my down booties.

4. You are wearing three pairs of pants. You could replace them all with a heavier set of fleece tights, like the Powerstretch tights.

5. A breathable bivy sack to hold all of this together, and keep the wind from blowing under your quilt. Something with a Pertex top and sil bottom. (Disregard this if you are using a tent.)

I have taken my 30-F bag into the mid-teens with my down jacket, Powerstretch tights, and down booties. Oh, and my balaclava. And the bivy. And no tent -- just a tarp or shelter or cowboy camp.

One more thing to consider: You appear to be wearing your shell layers to bed. This is great for warmth, but what if they are soaking wet from rain or snow? They might not be so useful under the quilt.

4-F probably gets into the category of "freaking cold." (That's a technical term.) So it's a serious test of using lighter gear. But it should be doable -- heck, you survivied, right? Good luck.

[vaporjourney]

thanks for all of the replies guys. I see lots of people shunning the quilt, but have you seen the Nunatak? The nunatak has a foot box, which completely wraps around the lower body, from shins downard. There is lots of fabric, which allows me to completely wrap it around my body, with straps underneath to keep the sides from coming out from underneath me. there is no fabric underneath me, but the idea is that all of the insulation under you is wasted anyway since loft is lost when you lie on it. The only thing that the quilt really lacks, in my mind, is a hood. I'm wearing the fleece hat/neck warmer to help make up for this....onto my thoughts...

Now that a couple of days have gone by, and I've researched metabolism some more, i've come to some conclusions.

1) i was definitely dehydrated because my urine was dark yellow that night. I was unaware how dehydration affects your body's ability to retain warmth. I will make sure I drink lots of water, even in the winter when I'm not thirsty from now on.

2) I was having trouble with my alcohol stove and warm hands, so I didn't get any carbs before bed, just ate some GORP and pop tarts. If I had some carbs, that would have burned calories slower and probably kept me warmer longer into the night. If i got cold again, then I would rely on sugars for a quick zap of warmth.

3) I didnt wear the hood on my rain jacket for some reason. This possibly would have helped me some more, but I'm not sure how much.

4) After making sure that I could light alcohol in freezing temps at home (i was unsure if it was possible b/c of problems in the field), I will have to possibly add hot water and put it into a nalgene cantene when i see that temps are in the low teens even before the sun has gone down, guaranteeing a frigid night. Does anyone know if the collapseable Nalgene Cantene's are safe to add water boiling too? I know I"ve read of people doing it with the Zipper Platy's...wanted to make sure.

[TurkeyBacon]

Yah, Just about everything has been posted so far, but...
Dehydration is a MAJOR factor. I've been to Gregory bald and unless you camp on a bald, you will not encounter something that windy and exposed, not to mention 4 * qualifies as freeking cold. Ever think about an insulated hat (like quilted insulation opposed to fleece). I'll second the idea of a breathable bivy. If you can sew, then can be had for reach cheap.
OR try it again, this time in a shelter at higher elevations. Try Buckhorn Gap shelter or Butter gap shelter in Pisgah, easy hike to the summit (reletively easy), high enough to get cold, closer than Smokies. And try drinking more.
TB

[ASUGrad]

Hmm....Gorp and pop tarts are carbs

[vaporjourney]

1. A thicker jacket over your torso. The Thermawrap is a nice jacket, but it's awfully thin for single-digits under a quilt. A nice lofty down jacket would be warmer both under the quilt and around camp. The Alpine Light jacket, or the GoLite down sweater, that sort of thing.

Are you talking about wearing this thicker down jacket over top of the clothing that I'm already wearing to bed? I was assuming that wearing all of these layers would help keep about the same amount of warmth that having a really thick layer would. Plus, I figured that multiple layers would be better than one thick layer, and also wouldn't waste any of the clothing i'm carrying.

2. A thicker hat, one with a windproof shell. Maybe make one of the synthetic-filled hoods? This should be much warmer than the fleece beanie. (Which you could wear underneath.)

Do you think that the hat is the issue if my head never feels cold, and often times feels hot? The turtle fur fleece is pretty damn thick, and when coupled with the neck gaiter, my head always seems warm. but perhaps even more warmth up top would keep the rest of my body warm, even if i feel i don't need it? I've thought about getting the Nunatak Down Balaclava, just damn expensive: http://www.nunatakusa.com/Down_Balaclava.htm (http://www.nunatakusa.com/Down_Balaclava.htm)

4. You are wearing three pairs of pants. You could replace them all with a heavier set of fleece tights, like the Powerstretch tights.

Again, I was just layering both pairs of underwear so that nothing went to waste, and I assumed that two layers (especially the thicker smartwool) woudl keep me as warm as powerstretch would. I'm not trying to rule that out at all, just seeing if it would actually work any better.

One more thing to consider: You appear to be wearing your shell layers to bed. This is great for warmth, but what if they are soaking wet from rain or snow? They might not be so useful under the quilt.


I'm not so worried about the shell layers getting wet, because I figure that it wouldn't be so hard to knock most of the water off of the rainproff fabric before putting it into a down quilt. But this is an issue I hadn't thought of. Also could be an issue if my thermal bottoms go wet that I rely on for layering. Great ideas and keep em coming.

[hopefulhiker]

I used the 30 degree Nunatak with a silk liner and the Big Agnes insulated air core..... It was good down to 20 I would say... That is a lot of clothes you have there too...

[oldfivetango]

I'd lose the quilt and get a bag for those kinds of temps. Make sure to eat right before going to bed and stay well hydrated to keep you furnace stoked. An emergency bag made out of that mylar material used for space blankets is worth it's weight in gold for some of those really cold nights. You look like a baked potatoe, and they're noisy, but man are those things warm.

I bought an emergency bag to play with in my hammock.Tested it on the
back deck one evening a year or so ago.I had a problem as I recall with
condensate.I wonder if there is someway of avoiding all that?Thanks.
Oldfivetango

[rambunny]

Don't forget wrapping up inside the sleeping bag with a plastic trash bag for awhile.

[vaporjourney]

Don't forget wrapping up inside the sleeping bag with a plastic trash bag for awhile.

this is a great idea. I could jsut take along a compactor bag for a bag liner, and then use the liner to stay warm inside my quilt. How long does it usually take before you get completely sweaty and ridculously uncomfortable from the non-breathable trash bag? If I don't do this, I may jsut spring for a silk liner, although I'm not how much warmth they really add.