looking for place/community

[cybrmarc]

Hi, I'm posting this here because I've gotten some great advice here in the past. It's also sort of a DIY life-situation sort of thing, and you guys and gals have tended to be pretty creative in that realm.
I'm asking for advice regarding a situation in which Me and my friend Alex would like to find ourselves in. For the past few months we've been road-trippin', visiting various "intentional" communities and camping out in national forests. We're getting tired of traveling, not having a home. We have become somewhat dissilusioned with joining a community of people out there who are open to truthspeaking (what we call emotional honesty and responsibility) and personal growth. We're also realizing that, even though we've grown a lot by being around each other and learning quite a bit about ourselves and cooperation, we cannot fulfill each other's social needs.
We've been brainstorming on what we can do about this. Some things that we came up with were: to get an appartment/cabin/land near/in a town, that is also near public forest land. And get part-time jobs! Most importanly, we are trying to create a situation in which a community of people and other relations can form around us. We've also thought about continuing to search for communities. So any advice would be appreciated - expecially about places that have that kind of a mix - public forest land/civilization. Or anything else!
thanks,
-Marcus
p.s. our travelogue is http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net (http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net/)

[Chaco Taco]

Welcome aboard. You will like it here. Good people!
I am looking for sort of the same. Search some of the trailtown threads.

[Mother's Finest]

You mean a place like Dancing Bones Village?

Or maybe even the famed Twelve Tribes Hostel in Rutland.....

Truthspeaking is not something you will find many places in the world, likely not even the two above mentioned spots.

Good luck on your journey.

peace
mf

[Lone Wolf]

Hi, I'm posting this here because I've gotten some great advice here in the past. It's also sort of a DIY life-situation sort of thing, and you guys and gals have tended to be pretty creative in that realm.
I'm asking for advice regarding a situation in which Me and my friend Alex would like to find ourselves in. For the past few months we've been road-trippin', visiting various "intentional" communities and camping out in national forests. We're getting tired of traveling, not having a home. We have become somewhat dissilusioned with joining a community of people out there who are open to truthspeaking (what we call emotional honesty and responsibility) and personal growth. We're also realizing that, even though we've grown a lot by being around each other and learning quite a bit about ourselves and cooperation, we cannot fulfill each other's social needs.
We've been brainstorming on what we can do about this. Some things that we came up with were: to get an appartment/cabin/land near/in a town, that is also near public forest land. And get part-time jobs! Most importanly, we are trying to create a situation in which a community of people and other relations can form around us. We've also thought about continuing to search for communities. So any advice would be appreciated - expecially about places that have that kind of a mix - public forest land/civilization. Or anything else!
thanks,
-Marcus
p.s. our travelogue is http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net (http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net/)

www.twelvetribes.com/whereweare/us/

[mweinstone]

jesus is the answer.to look elsewhere is to turn your back on god.

[Lone Wolf]

jesus is the answer.to look elsewhere is to turn your back on god.

cheap wine is the answer. me and hemingway know this

[Mags]

cheap wine is the answer. me and hemingway know this


.....and Jesus turned water into wine. Even the son of god knew cheap wine is the answer!

(I mean, can you get any cheaper than water into wine? Even Franzia ain't that cheap...)

[Lone Wolf]

.....and Jesus turned water into wine. Even the son of god knew cheap wine is the answer!

(I mean, can you get any cheaper than water into wine? Even Franzia ain't that cheap...)

that's why hiking with jc would be cool. no treating or filtering. just say, yo, jc, turn this vermont pond water into a 64 bourdeau. woah wait! that's french. how about a current manaschevitz. that it jewish, right?

[Jack Tarlin]

'64 was kind of a rough year for Bordeaux, Wolf. There were some excellent wines that year from the folks who harvested early; however severe rain in early October wiped out a lot of really fine stuff.

You'd do better with a '61.

[Lone Wolf]

'64 was kind of a rough year for Bordeaux, Wolf. There were some excellent wines that year from the folks who harvested early; however severe rain in early October wiped out a lot of really fine stuff.

You'd do better with a '61.

goldamn! i knew that refined mofo jack tarlin would set me strait! he knows his stuff:D

[max patch]

woah wait! that's french.

What do you have against the French?

http://tinyurl.com/cqykq

[Fannypack]

'64 was kind of a rough year for Bordeaux, Wolf. There were some excellent wines that year from the folks who harvested early; however severe rain in early October wiped out a lot of really fine stuff.

You'd do better with a '61.
oops! Jack, u have given yourself away?.... expert.....bs.....or ???

[Lone Wolf]

What do you have against the French?

http://tinyurl.com/cqykq

i'm a scot?

[Dances with Mice]

We've also thought about continuing to search for communities. So any advice would be appreciated - expecially about places that have that kind of a mix - public forest land/civilization. Or anything else!Check'em out (http://www.enota.org/). Never been there myself.

[bfitz]

i'm a scot?Figures....

[Jack Tarlin]

To F.P. :

No BS, '61 really WAS one of the four or five best vintages of the past 40 years, at least for Bordeaux. More recently, try the 2000.

[Desert Lobster]

What are DIY and truthspeak?

[4eyedbuzzard]

What are DIY and truthspeak?

Newspeak can be doubleplus confusing.;)

[cybrmarc]

Alright...I don't drink much wine so...

Truthspeaking is the term that was used when both my friend and I were introduced to a communication technique - the goal of which is to own your feelings and get you in touch with their roots. It involves taking the blame out of emotionally reactive situations and finding where YOUR reaction comes from, and owning and accepting that these unresolved feelings are your responsibility to resolve. This is referred to in a billion other ways in other literature, healing techniques and support groups - but we call it truthspeaking because (for us, obviously not for others who attended the wilderness school we attended - Teaching Drum outdoor school in WI) that makes it clear. Perhaps some day I'll finally remember how to 99.99% of the rest of the world has no clue what that means and finally find a good way to summarize it in 5 words or less!

DIY is do-it-yourself. Trying as opposed to buying. Like making your own hammock or your own panniers except on a broader level (building your own house, cabin, lodge, butchering your own meat, harvesting wild edibles). Also - our version of this involves being close to the land around us, not being separated (for most of the time, at least) by separate living arrangements/walls/headphones/tv/ect.

I'm aware of the intentional communities movement and of a couple that have been mentioned. We've been travelling for the past 4 months checking different ones out (travelogue: http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net) and haven't yet found any that fit us. We're basically ready to start gathering people together in one place for something that does fit us. I am - however - still curious about intentional communities and haven't given up on the possibility of becoming involved with one already existing.

thanks-
marcus

[The Doctor]

Maybe Vancouver?

[4eyedbuzzard]

You're 40 years too late.

[The Weasel]

.....and Jesus turned water into wine. Even the son of god knew cheap wine is the answer!

(I mean, can you get any cheaper than water into wine? Even Franzia ain't that cheap...)

Yes, you can get cheaper. Go to Trader Joes' and buy some "Two Buck Chuck" a/k/a Charles Shaw. It's cheaper than the bottled water. Hoping that when Jesus Dude comes back to California he starts turning wine (millions of gallons of it out here) into water (not nearly enough, so we steal it from Arizona).

the Weasel

[The Weasel]

i'm a scot?

Scots (I'm one too...a Burns on my mother's side) LOVE the French. They protected Bonnie Prince Charlie when the Sassenach were hunting him.

The Weasel

[max patch]

We're basically ready to start gathering people together in one place for something that does fit us.

Probably be a good idea not to mention that you guys are into roadkill as a main course when you cast your nets for recruits.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I originally gave you the benefit of the doubt until I read the following in your journal at http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net/

"... I was inspired to post something about the food we’ve been eating. ...most of our food comes either from a dumpster or from the woods (via us picking them or them being hit by a car).":-?

You aren't a hippie born 40 years too late. They had more ambition. Grow up.

Sorry, it's a "truthspeak" thing.:rolleyes:

[Mags]

Yes, you can get cheaper. Go to Trader Joes' and buy some "Two Buck Chuck" a/k/a Charles Shaw.

Wow! Who needs the son of god when you have Trader Joe's. :)



Hoping that when Jesus Dude comes back to California he starts turning wine (millions of gallons of it out here) into water (not nearly enough, so we steal it from Arizona).

Ah yes....
http://www.amazon.com/Cadillac-Desert-American-Disappearing-Revised/dp/0140178244/sr=8-1/qid=1170280899/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0403298-3045729?ie=UTF8&s=books

Forget oil....the real big topic in the upcoming decades will be WATER. Here (the American West), in the increasingly urbanized Middle East, etc.

But, that's another topic for a different thread....

[Mags]

"... I was inspired to post something about the food we’ve been eating. ...most of our food comes either from a dumpster or from the woods (via us picking them or them being hit by a car).":-?




See "Freeganism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism)".

My Dad would have a different word for the above. And I do, too. :) But, I'll be polite.

Living here in the People's Repubic of Boulder, I get a crash-course in many different "lifestyles".

My own personal life style is called "A somewhat cranky and sarcastic SOBism". I need a catchy title though. :)

[4eyedbuzzard]

See "Freeganism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeganism)".

My Dad would have a different word for the above. And I do, too. :) But, I'll be polite.

So would mine. When in polite mode he would use "vagrant". When "truthspeaking" he'd simply call a bum a bum. He[Dad] was a cranky SOB - my kind of people. :)

[Gray Blazer]

DIY is do-it-yourself. Trying as opposed to buying. Like making your own hammock or your own panniers except on a broader level (building your own house, cabin, lodge, butchering your own meat, harvesting wild edibles). Also - our version of this involves being close to the land around us, not being separated (for most of the time, at least) by separate living arrangements/walls/headphones/tv/ect.

We're basically ready to start gathering people together in one place for something that does fit us. I am - however - still curious about intentional communities and haven't given up on the possibility of becoming involved with one already existing.

thanks-
marcusCongratulations on making your own computer. Will you be making your own kool-aid? There are thousands of communities like the ones you describe. They are called towns. Seems like you'd fit in here in Gainesville, FL.

[bfitz]

Doesn't sound like they'd be stepping on anyone's toes. They're perfectly entitled to live as they see fit. So long as they are truly independant and not leaching off charity of others, I'm behind it all the way.

I do find it a little odd that this sort of getting back to nature thing involves a computer and online discussion forum, but no "separate living arrangements/walls/headphones/tv ect."...

[4eyedbuzzard]

Doesn't sound like they'd be stepping on anyone's toes. They're perfectly entitled to live as they see fit. So long as they are truly independant and not leaching off charity of others, I'm behind it all the way.

There's the problem. They aren't truly independent. They want and use[step on the toes] the trappings of civilization they need, but make no effort to participate in contributing to it. They want to use the public[read civilization]library computer, they want to use public lands for forage and hunting, they want access to civilized medicine, they want, want, want, and use, use, use - and consider themselves entitled to live as they see fit, all the while consuming the collective goods and services of civilization - while contributing little or nothing in return. They leech off the charity of civilization at large.

I just happen to have been at a school board meeting last evening. Every year it seems we have to re-explain to some taxpayer the community's duty (and an individuals contribution and pay-back to this collective duty via taxation) to educate our children "for the greater public good". The greater good means that we raise adult citizens who will ultimately become net contributing - not net consuming - members of society. While we can debate ad nauseum the politics of how we do this as a society, ultimately we do try to "pay it forward." In return we expect more from 23 year old adult citizens than just the self(ish)-suffiency of dumpster-diving.

There isn't anything profound or new happening here with this "intentional community" BS. It's all been done before, and almost always ends in failure. In the end the political and social beliefs of most of the people that lead them to such lifestyle experiments ultimately cause their own demise. The concept of obligation and duty to a group trumping individual freedom is inherent in ALL "social contracts".

Many of us romanticize the concept of "free men" living close to nature; we ponder the concepts of man's natural goodness vs civilization's inherent evils; etc. Rousseau stated, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains", yet he also noted that there is simply no turning back. The reality is that this is the only world we will ever know, one that is not going to go away, and what we make of it, what we do to make it better, is our only legacy. Does one have to participate? No. People are free to distance themselves from this civilization and to choose not to participate. They can even(and usually do) use and consume many goods and services they take for granted, produced by the very civilization they run from. But we who do participate do not have to praise their chosen path, and we maintain the right to condemn it for the selfishness and waste that it is. I'm against it all the way.

[bfitz]

Well, I was thinking of them living kind of like an Amish community or something, growing food, etc. maybe sharing wives:p and kids, supporting eachother in a communal fashion... Maybe I misunderstand.

[Lone Wolf]

Well, I was thinking of them living kind of like an Amish community or something, growing food, etc. maybe sharing wives:p and kids, supporting eachother in a communal fashion... Maybe I misunderstand.

yeah like charlie manson's commune

[bfitz]

No, unlike that one, more like the one my uncle and his family lived with in the 70's.

[bfitz]

I think Mathewski lived on a commune as a kid...? Somethin like that.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Well, I was thinking of them living kind of like an Amish community or something, growing food, etc. maybe sharing wives:p and kids, supporting eachother in a communal fashion... Maybe I misunderstand.

Perhaps I misunderstand too. But in reading all the drivel at http://falling-leaves.hubraincor.net/ I get the impression that this guy(s) is so caught up in his emotional philosophical "finding himself" BS he'll never be able to handle the politics/structure of a successfully governed commune.

[trippclark]

There's the problem. They aren't truly independent. They want and use[step on the toes] the trappings of civilization they need, but make no effort to participate in contributing to it. They want to use the public[read civilization]library computer, they want to use public lands for forage and hunting, they want access to civilized medicine, they want, want, want, and use, use, use - and consider themselves entitled to live as they see fit, all the while consuming the collective goods and services of civilization - while contributing little or nothing in return. They leech off the charity of civilization at large.

I just happen to have been at a school board meeting last evening. Every year it seems we have to re-explain to some taxpayer the community's duty (and an individuals contribution and pay-back to this collective duty via taxation) to educate our children "for the greater public good". The greater good means that we raise adult citizens who will ultimately become net contributing - not net consuming - members of society. While we can debate ad nauseum the politics of how we do this as a society, ultimately we do try to "pay it forward." In return we expect more from 23 year old adult citizens than just the self(ish)-suffiency of dumpster-diving.

There isn't anything profound or new happening here with this "intentional community" BS. It's all been done before, and almost always ends in failure. In the end the political and social beliefs of most of the people that lead them to such lifestyle experiments ultimately cause their own demise. The concept of obligation and duty to a group trumping individual freedom is inherent in ALL "social contracts".

Many of us romanticize the concept of "free men" living close to nature; we ponder the concepts of man's natural goodness vs civilization's inherent evils; etc. Rousseau stated, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains", yet he also noted that there is simply no turning back. The reality is that this is the only world we will ever know, one that is not going to go away, and what we make of it, what we do to make it better, is our only legacy. Does one have to participate? No. People are free to distance themselves from this civilization and to choose not to participate. They can even(and usually do) use and consume many goods and services they take for granted, produced by the very civilization they run from. But we who do participate do not have to praise their chosen path, and we maintain the right to condemn it for the selfishness and waste that it is. I'm against it all the way.

EXCELLENT POST! Saved me a lot of typing and stated it far better than I could have!

[bfitz]

Is everyone required to participate in the social contract? I mean, is it morally mandatory? If you are philosophically opposed to society can't you ignore it's precepts?

[Mother's Finest]

bfitz,

matty lives in his own commune.

as for participating in the social contract, I don't see how we can opt out.

the best one could hope for is to survive on the margins of society, essentially as a parasite.

There was an article in a recent edition of Harpers that talked about a huge landfill in Indonesia (i think) and the people that lived in and around it, existing off the waste of the rest of society.

hard living.

peace
mf

[Brushy Sage]

One can ignore the precepts of the community only so far; after that comes jail. To relate all this back to the AT experience: There is wide acceptance of different beliefs and behaviors up and down the trail, and hiking any substantial distance becomes a "set apart" experience, in a unique community. The experience does end, finally, and the society we left behind becomes the one we go back to -- although we are probably changed somehow internally.

[Phil1959]

Homer Alaska! Beautiful little town on the Ocean in Alaska.The whole town was started by people like you are talking about.Ya can live up over the cliff,and do whatever you want.Many people your age come and go every year.Some stay and make their own world! That is the kinda place you are looking for. Phil

[James Case]

www.gladheartfarms.org
a great place...
I live there myself. Lots of good friends and we do some farming and make biodiesel and stuff.
Come see it. It's free to visit.
James

[Time To Fly 97]

Hi Marcus,

Just pick a place and come home for awhile. You can find good people, real conversation and happiness anywhere if you look for it. Doing good deeds for new friends is a fast track way to integrate - just keep your eyes opened for opportunities.

You may find that those awesome conversations and relationships get even better if you spend some time with them instead of moving on all the time. Relationships are like fruit trees...the flowers are beautiful in the Spring, but the fruit is worth the wait.

Happy hiking!

TTF