Is the WM Ultralight TOO warm?

[Old Tom Bombadil]

I am a newbie to Hiking and have been reading a lot of threads to decide on gear. I will not be able to thru hike for several years. I plan on one Section Hike this summer (Springer up to Franklin, NC). I am in Atlanta and my Dad lives in Lake Toxaway, NC, so I plan on doing a bunch of 2/3 day hikes on the SC Foothills trail and exploring the Chattooga/Batram/NE Ga area.

It looks like the WM is the bag of choice, but since I will be doing a lot of summer camping in GA/SC/NS, is the Ultalight too much bag for me (warmth wise)? I am a cold sleeper, but Id rather be a little cold than hot. Price is not an issue. That being said, it would be nice if the bag I buy will work in the same ares for 3 seasons and a future thru hike. Is the solution to by two bags? Thanks.

[Nightwalker]

I have a 30° down bag that I use all year. In the Summer, I start it out totally off of me, then use it as a quilt as the night goes on. I usually end up covered to the chin by morning. Just my 2¢

I also have a homemade fleece bag for very warm conditions which makes an excellent liner in the Winter. I think it cost me about $12.00 to make.

[Old Tom Bombadil]

Sorry, hit the enter button too quick. The bag I am looking at is the WM Ultralight. I am concerned it will be too hot for summer. I have support in NC for drop off/pick up all year, so I plan on a minimum of one 3 day/month in the Cashiers area (except winter)

[Heater]

It looks like the WM is the bag of choice, but since I will be doing a lot of summer camping in GA/SC/NS, is the Ultalight too much bag for me (warmth wise)? I am a cold sleeper, but Id rather be a little cold than hot. Price is not an issue. That being said, it would be nice if the bag I buy will work in the same ares for 3 seasons and a future thru hike. Is the solution to by two bags? Thanks.

You might want to look into a semi rectangular bag that opens up flat like a true quilt that you would put on your bed. I have a WM Sycamore 25 degree bag. That might be what you are looking for here.

You can bundle up on cold nights or open it up for the warmer ones. Pull it up off your legs and just cover the torso works good on cool nights for me. It also hs a hood that cinches up all the way open or closed to however much you want. I think it is a great bag. Check it out.

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=Microfiber%20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=21

[tmnobo07]

I own the WM Ultralite and it's an awesome bag. IMO and experience, it's the best 3 season bag out there. And only 26oz!

Will it be too warm for strictly summer camping?...you betcha. But one nice feature is the full length zipper. This enables you to use it as a quilt like Nightwalker suggested. This is what I'll be doing this summer. I personally can't justify spending a couple hundred dollars just to carry a lighter summer bag. I think you're best investment would be to buy a 3 season bag. You could buy 2 bags but personally I'd rather save that money for some other piece of gear. But if money is no object...

My buddy just ordered the WM Highlite. He plans on using it on the AT this summer. He's going to use his Marmot Helium during the cold months and then switch to the Highlite in the summer. His Helium is only a half zipper and he absolutely hates that feature. With the half zip he has a very hard time regulating his temp because he can't really use it as a quilt.

[Mocs123]

You might look at a WM Summerlite. Western doesn't make a bad bag, you just have to find the one that is right for you.

BTW: I also have a highlite but like the summerlite better becouse of the full length zipper. I don't have a Ultralite, but would like one. Anyone have one they need to get rid of cheap?:)

[bigcranky]

I know that the standard recommendation is to buy a 20-F bag if you only want one bag. But, I am starting to think that a 20-F bag is a compromise -- defined as "that which makes no one happy."

A 20-F bag like the Ultralight Super is too warm in the summer, and not warm enough in real winter conditions. It's fine for the shoulder seasons like March, except when it's not. (The temps can drop into the single digits on occasion in the mountains.)

I have gone to two bags, a 30F and a 5F. The 30F bag is good by itself from April to October, and with a down jacket and warm clothing, I can extend that a month on each end. The 5F bag is perfect in the Southern Appalachians from Thanksgiving through mid-March, and maybe a little more depending on the weather forecast. In the summer, when it's very warm at night, I start with the bag draped over my feet, and drag it higher as the night grows cooler. You can do this with a 20-F bag, of course, though you'll pay a premium for the extra 10 degrees.

A better combination for someone who hikes year-round might be the 5F and a 35F or 40F rated bag, like the Caribou or Highlite from Western Mountaineering. If I had to do it over again, I might look seriously at the Caribou over my Megalite.

So who is the 20-F bag made for? My lovely wife, who is a cold sleeper and needs it even when I am lying there dripping sweat. She doesn't have a winter bag -- yet -- I still need to convince her that winter camping isn't an automatic death sentence. (I'll need to blow the big bucks on some -40 bag, too.) And the Ultralite Super is fine for a March thru-hike start, as long as you have some warm clothing to wear to bed on the coldest nights in the Smokies.

[leep frog]

If you are a cold sleeper then the Ultralite might be right for you in summer, but I find it much too hot. The summerlite or other models are worth consideration as well, as are some of the quilt designs by Rab and other companies. The cool thing about most of these bags is that they have "coninuous baffles" so you can shift the insulation depending on conditions. Some people think this is a liability, but I find it to be a great advantage as I can shift all of the down to the top of my bag in winter where it's far more usefull as compared to being crushed under my weight. It's also worth ignoring degree rating and instead comparing bags by comparing their respective inches of loft.

You have to consider the clothes you take too though! Use them to help keep warm.

I different from Big Cranky--I use a WM Ultralite in the winter in the southern apps, but i use it in combination with insulated pants and a jacket and my other dry clothes. I'm a hot sleeper to though. And this is worth remembering; the insulation under you in winter is just as important as your bag! If you're using some rat nasty, beat down ridge rest you'll get cold no matter what your bag is rated to. Make sure your ridge rest is replaced when it needs to be, and consider adding and 3/4 inflatable pad in really cold weather and it will vastly increase your warmth.

In short, the options are

1) I want to pay for one bag, like the ultra lite and use my clothes and other gear to modify my sleep system for the various seasons.

2) I want 2 bags, one for 3 seasons and one for winter. I think this option is preferable for most people, especially if you are unsure of your gear and don't have a real "system" in place.

If I were you I'd go for the 20 or 30F bag(and bags from companies like WM and FF will be warmer than their cheaper competitors) first and then by a 5F bag for winter. The point is, metabolism is different for everyone, so get the 3 season bag 1st, experiment and figure out what works best for you.

Also, look for mark verber's website. He's got lots of good info on sleep and shelter systems.

[Old Tom Bombadil]

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advice but it looks like I won't get the right answer until I buy a farging bag and get out there and use it! Same goes for the pack, shelter and water treatment. I am heading over to High Country this afternoon to check out some gear.

I doubt I will do any winter Hiking. Although I have lived all over, I grew up in South Florida and my blood will always be thin. Hiking and camping in snow has zero appeal to me. If I run into it thats fine, but I would not go out for a three day if I knew the temps would be below freezing during the day. I think that rules out a 5 degree bag. What I might do is buy a 20 degree and a 40 degree. As I am gearing up, I am also gearing up my girlfriend.

Some more questions......I have a tent I bought a few years back. A Eureka backcountry 2 man. Do you think this is an adequate tent for me and my GF to use on 2-5 day trips? It probably weighs around 5 pounds including stakes. Is there such thing as a two person hammock system? I have never used a hammock before but it seems between a hammock and a tarp you get a much better space to weight ratio Vs a tent.

[tha]

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advice but it looks like I won't get the right answer until I buy a farging bag and get out there and use it! Same goes for the pack, shelter and water treatment. I am heading over to High Country this afternoon to check out some gear.

I doubt I will do any winter Hiking. Although I have lived all over, I grew up in South Florida and my blood will always be thin. Hiking and camping in snow has zero appeal to me. If I run into it thats fine, but I would not go out for a three day if I knew the temps would be below freezing during the day. I think that rules out a 5 degree bag. What I might do is buy a 20 degree and a 40 degree. As I am gearing up, I am also gearing up my girlfriend.

Some more questions......I have a tent I bought a few years back. A Eureka backcountry 2 man. Do you think this is an adequate tent for me and my GF to use on 2-5 day trips? It probably weighs around 5 pounds including stakes. Is there such thing as a two person hammock system? I have never used a hammock before but it seems between a hammock and a tarp you get a much better space to weight ratio Vs a tent.

Tom,
You might also want to look at the Big Agnes bags and tents. I just got the new Emerald Mountain SL-3 tent for my 3/08 thru as well as the Mystic bag, with an integrated pad. My buddy and I are both pretty big guys and the size of the tent is awesome for the weight. What great gear! Furthermore, the Big Agnes customer service is fantastic. I bugged these guys for months before finally buying something, and they were as patient as could be, as well as knowledgeable. I looked at the WM stuff and liked it very much, but I saved about 12-14 oz. over comparable stuff with BigAg. Take a look, if you choose. Prices are about equal, as I recall.
Best,
Tim

[Egads]

I use a 20* WM Alpinelite which is slightly larger than the WM UL. The WM Ultralight is TOO warm for summer, just right in winter. U can use it as an overquilt up to ~40-45 which covers most spring an fall nights in the SE.

Consider using a light overquilt for temps above 40*.

Egads

[Old Tom Bombadil]

You might want to look into a semi rectangular bag that opens up flat like a true quilt that you would put on your bed. I have a WM Sycamore 25 degree bag. That might be what you are looking for here.

You can bundle up on cold nights or open it up for the warmer ones. Pull it up off your legs and just cover the torso works good on cool nights for me. It also hs a hood that cinches up all the way open or closed to however much you want. I think it is a great bag. Check it out.

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=Microfiber%20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=21

Austexs,
I like the idea of getting some extra foot room. Because the Sycamore does not have a taper at the feet like a mummy bag, does that pose a problem when the temps go down to 20 degrees or so? Also, I have a honey who will be hiking with me....I wonder if I get two Sycamores if I could zip them together and make a quilt we could share for those warmer nights. That would be a great solution! I also wonder if the Sycamore would actually sleep warmer than rated if zipped together with two people in it sharing body heat on a good pad???

What is the general opinion of semi-rectangulars?

I actually climed into some WM bags tonight at the store (High Country). The Ultralight was VERY confining to me but I suppose I would get used to it. I got the gear bug so I decided to drive over to Mountain Crossing tomorrow to check out more gear. They are only 90 minutes away and I can do a day hike at Amicalola afterwards to boot. Bought a pair of Asolos tonight and I want to break them in!

[bigcranky]

WM makes a larger 20-F bag. They also make the Megalite, a 30-F bag for big people (like me). Try on lots of bags -- it's fun.

[DrewNC2005]

If the Ultralite was too confining, try the Alpinlite or Megalite. I'm not a very big guy (6' and 180 lbs) but I had the same issue with the Ultralite. Solution: the Megalite. Much more shoulder girth.

[Jan LiteShoe]

For my March 1 start in 2003 I carried the WM Versalite, at that time rated to 20 degrees. (It's since been "down"-rated to 15 or 10, I think). Many, many cold nights I was intensely grateful for it's toasty warmth.
:)

I carried that to Catawba, VA and mailed it ahead to Hannover.

I used the 1-lb WM Highlite from Catawba on. I also had a silk bag liner, and I used that some in NJ and other hot/mosquito-ed states.

When I got to Hannover, I felt my warm bag would be too warm, so I kept bouncing it up the trail "until needed." I never did need it, summited Sept. 18 with the Highlite. Normally, I'd need a warmer bag at that point but by then I'd become more trail-wise and temperature-toughened, LOL.

That said, my 2-lb Versalite was and remains MY FAVORITE PIECE OF GEAR. I love it, love it, love it! Now that I am not so temperature-toughened, I use it in spring and fall camping (the best months, IMO), and also when the power goes out here in winter, ha!

It's not often you can praise a company whole-heatedly,but WM gets full kudos from me.

[bigcranky]

The Ultralight was VERY confining to me but I suppose I would get used to it.


Someone has a WM Badger SDL on sale at the TLB forums for $365:

http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html

Just go to the buy/sell forum and look near the top. It's a *very* wide 15-F mummy bag, with a 66-inch shoulder girth. That's more space to heat up, of course, but if you need the space, you need it. 24 ounces of 800-fill down. Nice.

-Ken

[GitRdone]

I am looking seriously at the WM Megalite...I am 6'3" and 210 lbs. I won't be thru hiking the AT for few more years but, do plan to begin section hiking it. The girth may be a litte big for me but, the Ultra Super lite looks to be too narrow and confining for my build. I toss and turn a lot.

Bud

[bigcranky]

Bud,

I'm 6-2, 205, and there is no way I could use the Ultralite Super. (I know, I've tried my wife's -- way way way too narrow.) The Megalite is a terrific bag. You might also look at the Montbell Superstretch bags.

[budman5]

bud
i use the mega and love it, i'm 6'3" and 220 lbs.
Us Bud's have to stick together...8-)