PDA

View Full Version : Invasive Toxic Plant: Giant Hogweed



Don
07-24-2003, 09:53
Giant Hogweed, an invasive species that causes blisters and extreme sensititvity to UV rays, is spreading along the east coast. Following is a story from the Baltimore Sun about local problems with the plant:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/yahoo/bal-md.hogweed24jul24,0,6834200.story?coll=bal-newsaol-headlines

And here is a site that provides more specifics about identifying the weed...

http://dnr.metrokc.gov/wlr/LANDS/weeds/hogweed.htm

finally, a map showing its distribution in the Northeast:

http://ceris.purdue.edu/napis/pests/ghw/imap/usaall.html

Blue Jay
07-24-2003, 09:57
And yet another reason to hide under you bed and leave the woods to me. Lions and tigers and plants, oh my!

smokymtnsteve
07-24-2003, 14:29
.....

icemanat95
07-24-2003, 15:36
This stuff is a serious problem. It's no reason to stay out of the woods, but keep an eye out for it in your travels and if you find any, mark it on your map and report it. If it shows up on your property, kill it with Round Up. Get the concentrate and mix it 50% stronger than the label recommends.

Don't worry about Round Up's effects on insects and animals, it is a highly targeted herbicide. You could drink it full strength and suffer nothing worse than indigestion and maybe some diarhea. But it kills plants pretty good. Glyphosates like Round Up Rodeo and Accord are the most commonly used herbicides in the industry. You can plant in the treated soil again in six weeks as well. My father-in-law uses it to weed his garden, all the orchard owners I know use it around the bases of their trees to kill off weeds and other plants that could compete with the trees for soil nutrients and water. It's a very safe herbicide.

Invasive weeds like Giant Hogweed, Purple Loosetrife, Autumn Olive, Fragmites and Kudzu choke out native plant species very quickly. Fragmites and Purple Loosetrife are wiping out native cattails. Autumn Olive was planted heavily along highways and other municipal projects because it grows fast and begins to form a visual and sound barrier, but it then continues to spread. Kudzu is, well, kudzu. Poison Ivy , Oak and Sumac are also invasive species. They spread easily and are hard to kill. If poison Ivy, Oak or Sumac get established on your property you will wage a many-years war with them to wipe them out. Japanese bamboo is the same though it isn't toxic. It spreads like crazy and it's near impossible to kill. Unfortunately many of these invasive species were considered ornamental plants until recently and people planted them intentionally. They then lost control of them and they began to spread into the wild damaging the natural integrity of the local ecosystems. There are NO mechanical means of eliminating them; chemicals must be used.

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 07:29
Are there any type of death dealing products that do not meet your approval. To claim that you can drink a herbicide is outrageous.

meBrad
07-25-2003, 09:32
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted.

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 10:08
Brad, I am a Biochemist. You are a fool

meBrad
07-25-2003, 10:20
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 10:24
Brad, both things are designed to stop life. What you call them makes no difference at all (unless you are a BS artist). Call Scotts, the manufacturer, and request an MSDS for both types of round up. You will agree that you should NOT drink them as WAS suggested.

meBrad
07-25-2003, 10:53
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 10:54
I got the Monsanto MSDS (remember the Monsanto Plant that blew up in India poisoning thousands). Eye Protection:Wear chemical goggles. Skin protection: If repeated or prolonged contact: Wear chemical resistant gloves. Respiratory protection: Wear Respirator. It reacts with GALVANIZED (my capitals) steel to produce hydrogen. Monsanto has not conducted toxicity studies on this product. Why, because they already know the result. IT KILLS THINGS. Reread you post, I think you may agree with my assessment of your BS talent.

MOWGLI
07-25-2003, 11:00
I propose a celebrity death match of sorts. Brad & Blue Jay battle it out atop the summit of Killington. Loser has to drink Round-up and roll around in Giant Hogweed. $10 admission fee. All proceeds to benefit ATC.

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 11:03
Brad, I cannot believe I just tried to talk you out of drinking or performing something that ends in the suffix "cide". Go ahead be my guest.

meBrad
07-25-2003, 11:06
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 11:10
OK, you win drink it.

meBrad
07-25-2003, 11:20
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

smokymtnsteve
07-25-2003, 11:28
......

Blue Jay
07-25-2003, 12:08
Monsanto also makes DDT and continues to sell it around the world. The Brads (and Todds) of the world (could he be in PR or advertizing?) always claimed that it was safe also, even after the Eagles and Hawks started to dissappear. Even now that it has been banned here and proven to be harmful Monsanto continues to sell it outside the United States. I believe that Hogweed, bears, rattle snakes, stinging neetles, Brads, poison ivy and skunks all have a place in this world. But only Brads spray themselves with poison.

meBrad
07-25-2003, 12:23
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

gravityman
07-25-2003, 13:09
I heard a story on NPR (National Public Radio) about why africa was still using DDT. They spray it around their houses and up under the eaves to kill the mosquitoes carrying all kinds of nasties. Apparently all the other insecticides wash off/evaporate too easily. DDT sticks around, which is why makes it so bad, yet so useful.

I thought that was really interesting. How a person and a society has to weigh one bad against another. Tough decision.

Gravity Man

icemanat95
07-28-2003, 19:01
Blue Jay,

I plead guilty of over-exaggeration to make the point that Glyphosate is a very safe herbicide for humans to use, handle, and even mishandle (as most people do). You have to make a conscious effort of stupidity to seriously poison yourself with the stuff, and even then you have to try harder than you would have to with a lot of old-style herbicides.

But obviously the common sense quotient has fallen enough that people cannot see an overexaggeration without having smiley faces next to it.

For the record: Do NOT drink glyphosate or any other herbicide. While drinking glyphosate won't kill you (barring an allergic or sensitivity attack), it'll render your short term future decidedly uncomfortable, and you will become intimately familiar with your bathroom.

Good enough?

As far as whether I do not approve of any death-dealing product, there are many that I don't approve of. I don't approve of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. I'm not a big fan of landmines or booby traps. I think riding a motorcycle without a helmet, while not criminal, is insensitive to the EMT's who are going to have to scoop up the remains of your brains with a grain scoop shovel if you get into an accident. Heroin, Crystal Meth, Crack, powder cocaine, ecstacy and other "recreational pharmaceuticals" result in misery everywhere they are used and made. I am less harsh in my opinion on marijuana, but seing as it's illegal, people should not use it...eventually it will be legalized (another ten years probably.) At that point I'll re-assess. I think smoking cigarettes is stupid, but if you feel you must, go ahead, just don't sign onto any lawsuits later. Anyone in the past forty years who claims they didn't know cigarette smoking was hazardous to their health is either a complete moron or is lying like an old rug. I used to smoke and I knew I was risking it all. Nevertheless I do not support banning cigarettes.

There are a lot of "death-dealing" products that are necessary for public health. Antibiotics, antiseptics, some pesticides (about the only thing that keeps malaria and yellow fever from becoming endemic up along the East coast as far as New York are pesticides that keep the populations down. ) Pesticide use is the only thing that keeps schools and hospitals from being over-run by cockroaches, rats, mice and other vermin. Places where pesticide use in those public places have been banned experience immediate expansions of those pests because it is not possible to maintain the clean-clean environments needed to keep them away when children and sick people are involved.

Likewise herbicides are used to keep invasive species like poison ivy,oak, hogweed, kudzu, Japanese Bamboo, Purple Loosetrife, Fragmites, etc. checked. They are used selectively along powerline rights of way to prevent trees from growing up into the wires and creating fire hazards or wind hazards. They are used along fuel pipelines at storage stations and at electrical substations to keep plants from threatening those installations. Transformer stations need to be kept essentially plant free to remove the fire hazards they would otherwise represent. handwork cannot accomplish this. Some chemicals are used merely to retard plant growth, lowering the mowing frequency from monthly to bi-or tri-monthly where high grass growth would create a safety issue by obstructing sightlines (along highways).

Pesticides and herbicides can be used responsibly or irresponsibly. This is true of most "death-dealing" products, in fact, this is true of absolutely all things. You can destroy a human being as surely by abusing their emotions as you can by shooting them. A person is just as dead when beaten with a hammer as when stabbed with a kitchen knife.

The crime is in the person who commits it, not in the object used.

Blue Jay
07-29-2003, 08:11
Both Herbicide and Pasticide levels are rising in both food and water. Even Organic farmers are find ing high levels in fields far away from contaminated ones. You are correct that the responsible use of these poisons is beneficial. The problem is that "responsible" is clearly not an attribute of the human species. For example "corn" no longer exists anywhere on the planet. A geneticlly engineered Frankenfood that looks like corn has taken its place. One that can survive ROUNDUP. Even if you had corn seed it could no pollinate because frankencorn is engineered to overcome it. Are we aware of the short or long term effects if this distruction. No, there is no oversight, few regulations (none that matter in any way), and actually very little science involved. Monsanto did not destroy a major food sourse for any compassionate "beneficial" reasons. It was purely to fill the pockets of a few insane executives. Now all food products are under attack from Monsanto. The rest of the world is fighting this insane activity, but Amerikans are just flat out ignorant.

Blue Jay
07-29-2003, 08:19
One more thing, pesticides, herbicides, suicide and fratracide are biological weapons. Just because we use them on ourselves and our families does not change that fact.

meBrad
07-29-2003, 09:27
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

Blue Jay
07-29-2003, 10:38
Thanks Todd (I mean Brad). If you had any different opinion about my intellect I would be deeply offended.

meBrad
07-29-2003, 10:58
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

icemanat95
07-30-2003, 15:40
Originally posted by meBrad
I am left puzzled why you infer that I know him or am him?
Some of the more paranoid netizens frequently assume that their opponents post under a variety of aliases to "gang" up on them. Blue Jay is clearly a fan of conspiracy theories.

meBrad
07-30-2003, 15:46
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

Lone Wolf
07-30-2003, 22:58
Why don't you pseudo-intellectuals take your sophmoric pissing contest somewhere else for christ's sake! wha wha wha.

asmtroop3
07-31-2003, 06:22
I did not want to be the first Wolf but BRAVO.

The two of them should do a section or two together and if they don't kill each other, maybe they will learn to shut the F$*% up.

Granted, this is a forum and it was made to allow freedom of speech. but freedom at the expense of others is not right.

I could get personal right here but Brad and BJ, you figure it out without us, OK.

Blue Jay
07-31-2003, 07:47
Now Mr. Wolf you've always liked to start pissing contests in the past. Mr. Troop you could always avoid Giant Hogweed or other scary threads. I will agree to your suggestions.

meBrad
07-31-2003, 08:47
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

asmtroop3
07-31-2003, 11:56
I do not want to avoid threads because I do not like the content.
Reasonable debates are healthy. I like to throw the occasional stone as well. The last thing I considered SCARY, I killed and ate.

But having to weed through all you two have provided lately to gather the knowledge this site is known for is a pain in the A**.

Maybe we can start a section called the boxing ring or pissing corner or whatever that will be a place for totally unreasonable sh*# like you guys are spewing.

Like you said, I can always take my A** elsewhere.

meBrad
07-31-2003, 12:12
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

smokymtnsteve
07-31-2003, 12:27
.....

Lone Wolf
07-31-2003, 12:31
amstroop, just view them as a couple of elementary school girls bitching at one another except they're using BIG WORDS. hahaha

smokymtnsteve
07-31-2003, 12:33
.....

steve hiker
07-31-2003, 13:24
Brad or Blue Jay, maybe one of you could help me out. What do you think of yellow blazing New Yawk, New Joisey, and the rocks of eastern Pennsylvania. Just hitch from Dumcannon to the NY/CT state line. Any reason why not?

I mean, WHY do this section of trale? Nobody seems to enjoy it, they just plow right through with a goal of getting to New England or Shenandoah. This section is conspicuously out of place on the AT anyway, going through suburban NY and Rockville, PA at a whopping 270 feet above sea level.

Is it really worth the extra 306 miles just for:

--a view and a whiff (gagh!) of the Big Apple
--an opportunity to rough it up with "youse guyz"
--a chance of getting some sleazy Joisey tail at a trailside bar
--a scenic walk through a Superfund waste site (tasty water!)
--best chance of mangling your ankle on the whole AT
--certainty of slicing the soles of your boots to shreds on PA razors

Lone Wolf
07-31-2003, 13:31
C'mon Jumble Troll, you've worn out the skipping trail thing. Come up with a new original topic.

Blue Jay
07-31-2003, 13:54
Your just jealous Wolfy because I usually bitch at you. Just you'all remember Giant Hogweed is sneaking up on you this very minute, and your guns won't help.

B Thrash
07-31-2003, 19:08
Five major US colleges conducted toxicity studies on Glyphosate (Roundup) with the results at: ace.ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/glyphosa.htm from the results it did not kill any rabbits, rats, cats, dogs or humans, so drink at you own risk.











______________________________________
cogita ante salis
Look before you leap

icemanat95
08-01-2003, 15:06
Interesting study, basically supports what I've been saying all along.

Mudchaos
08-07-2003, 13:09
This article was in todays New York Times. Thought some here might find it interesting.

Is There a Place for DDT?
By HENRY I. MILLER


TANFORD, Calif.—The outbreak of West Nile virus in the United States is rapidly becoming a significant threat to public health. With the peak season just beginning, the mosquito-borne virus has been found in animals (primarily birds and horses) in 38 states, and has caused 103 serious infections and three deaths in humans in 15 states.
Last year, there were more than 4,000 cases and almost 300 deaths. We may be on the verge of an epidemic, but there is no treatment and a vaccine is at least a decade away.
Public health officials have recognized the seriousness of the problem, but too often their response has been tepid and designed to avoid controversy. The Centers for Disease Control Web site, for example, advises people to avoid mosquito bites by covering up, using insect repellent, and staying indoors during peak mosquito hours. Missing from its list of suggestions, however, is any mention of insecticides or widespread spraying. Anyone curious about the role of pesticides in battling mosquitoes and West Nile is directed to a maze of other Web sites.
In the absence of a vaccine, elimination of the organism that spreads the West Nile virus — in this case, the mosquito — is the key to prevention, but fundamental shortcomings in public policy limit the tools that are available.
In 1972, on the basis of dubious data about toxicity to fish and migrating birds, the Environmental Protection Agency banned virtually all uses of the pesticide DDT, an inexpensive and effective pesticide once widely deployed to kill disease-carrying insects. Allowing political sentiment to trump science, regulators also cited the possibility that DDT posed a cancer risk for humans — an assertion based on studies showing an increased incidence of the illness in mice that were fed extremely high doses of the pesticide.
Not only did government regulators minimize scientific evidence of the safety and effectiveness of DDT, they also failed to appreciate the distinction between its large-scale use in agriculture and more limited application for controlling carriers of human disease. Although DDT can be a toxic substance, there is a big difference between applying large amounts of it in the environment — as American farmers did before it was banned — and applying it carefully and sparingly to fight mosquitoes and other disease-carrying insects. A basic principle of toxicology is that the dose makes the poison.
The regulators who banned DDT also failed to take into consideration the inadequacy of alternatives. Because it persists after spraying, DDT works far better than many pesticides now in use, some of which are toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. (While its longevity poses risks, they are minimized with targeted use.) Also, the need to spray other insecticides repeatedly drives up costs. For example, budget problems compelled Maryland this summer to turn down requests for spraying from communities badly infested with mosquitoes.
Given the long-term ineffectiveness of other pesticides, DDT remains the best alternative to fighting mosquitoes and the West Nile virus. It's worth recalling that DDT worked before, eradicating malaria from the United States. It's worth recalling, too, that since DDT was widely banned, insect-borne diseases like malaria and dengue fever have been on the rise worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that malaria kills about one million people annually, and that there are 300 million to 500 million new cases each year.
How can we drain the public policy swamp? First, the government should undertake a re-evaluation of the voluminous data on DDT that has been compiled since the 1970's. It should also make DDT available for mosquito control in the United States.
Second, the United States should oppose international strictures on DDT. This includes retracting American support for the United Nations Persistent Organic Pollutants Convention, which makes it exceedingly difficult for developing countries — many of which are plagued by malaria — to use DDT.
Finally, federal officials should embark on a campaign to educate local authorities and citizens about the safety and potential importance of DDT. Right now, most of what people hear is the reflexively anti-pesticide drumbeat of the environmental movement.
Because DDT has such a bad rap, it will be politically difficult to resurrect its use. But we should begin the process now. In the meantime, we'll just slather on the insect repellent, slap, scratch — and occasionally become infected with a life-threatening but preventable disease.
Henry I. Miller, a doctor, is a fellow at the Hoover Institution. He was a Food and Drug Administration official from 1979-1994


Mudchaos

steve hiker
08-07-2003, 13:37
Interesting.

Also interesting is that after the big outbreak of West Nile here in Louisiana (we had the highest incident and mortality rate in the nation), the mosquitos have mysteriously almost disappeared in my neighborhood. At the time of the outbreak, I read that an Army unit out of Kentucky that specializes in insect control would be enlisted to fight West Nile in the U.S. Also about that time, I occasionally heard late at night the rumbling of very low flying aircraft over my neighborhood in suburban New Orleans (across the lake from the area with the highest outbreak in Louisiana and the nation).

It's just pure speculation, but I've wondered if the mysterious disappearance of mosquitos in my neighborhood isn't the result of discreet, perhaps classified ("national security") government sponsored spraying of DDT. Or perhaps soverign immunity allows the U.S. gov't to do what private corporations and municipalities cannot do because of EPA regulations.

gravityman
08-07-2003, 14:32
In Gainesville, FL where I did my grad work you would hear the mosquito truck rumbing down the street in the early am once a week. The mosquitos had to fly thu that in aerosal form to be killed. But I lived on a private street for one year where they didn't do that. WOW what a difference. I couldn't work on my car it was so bad!

There is also something they put in the water to kill the larva.

DDT is so good because it hangs around for so long. That's also why it is so bad. They still use it in Africa because of all the mosquito born problems.

Gravity Man

meBrad
08-07-2003, 14:38
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

meBrad
08-07-2003, 14:43
I have come to understand that my participation in this forum is counter productive. In an attempt to ammend this I am deleting my posts and have requested to have my account deleted

MOWGLI
08-07-2003, 15:02
Originally posted by Mudchaos
This article was in todays New York Times. Thought some here might find it interesting.



Thanks Mudchaos. I read it over coffee this morning.

By the way, it is an OP-ED piece, not an article. Just thought I'd add that for perspective.

I too have memories of being scared of the mosquito fogger trucks that used to work the backroads near my parents cabin near Greenwood Lake, NY (2 miles from the AT as the mosquito flys). I remember running into the house after seeing those noisy "monsters" coming towards our driveway.

One more thing... I have participated in the Mount Peter Hawk Watch in Warwick, NY for the past 5+ years. The last few years have shown a dramatic drop in population for several species of Hawks (Sharp Shinned Hawks particularly). While there is no data to directly correlate raptor population decline with the spread of West Nile Virus (there are other factors such as the decline in songbird populations which Sharp Shinned Hawks prey upon), many birds of prey have succumbed to the disease. 3 juvenile Bald Eagles were released in NYC last year. Two survived to migrate south, and the other was hit by a train along the Hudson River. An autopsy verified the bird tested positive for West Nile.

I'm not advocating bringing back DDT. I just think its interesting that a virus that could potentially be eradicated by DDT application, is doing the same thing to birds of prey that DDT did 40 years ago. Its killing them.