Raingear breathability & Hypothermia?

[vaporjourney]

I have begun to think about updating my raingear (Red Ledge Jacket, cheapo water-RESISTANT nylon pants) to save weight, but have lots of questions before doing so. I'm not so concerned about rain gear in the summer since I'd probably just prefer to hike shirtless and get wet, assuming it's not too chilly. But the winter is where I'm mainly concerned, and mainly worried about hypothermia. I really don't plan on getting a breathable fabric like Goretex/eVent because the pricing is ridiculous. However, I'm wondering if the nonbreathable fabrics cause intense sweating that would drench your insulation (capilene) underneath, causing it to lose all warming capabilities? Then if your clothes underneath are soaked, you lose core warmth, and slowly hypothermia could become an issue. On the other hand, I could see that even if your clothes are soaked, they would be fairly warm since all of your body heat would be trapped under the rain jacket, making you extremely uncomfortable but at least safe. thoughts?

[Blue Jay]

However, I'm wondering if the nonbreathable fabrics cause intense sweating that would drench your insulation (capilene) underneath, causing it to lose all warming capabilities? Then if your clothes underneath are soaked, you lose core warmth, and slowly hypothermia could become an issue.

Yes, you have described exactly what will happen. I prefer several layers of quality fleece with a wind block on the outside. You shed or add layers to keep your level of sweating to an absolute minimum. It's best if you are slightly cold while moving, if done correctly, and no one hits it right all the time, you don't sweat at all and the heat of your body evaporates external moisture. Hard rain slightly above freezing is the hardest to deal with but it works better than shrink wraping your body.

[Footslogger]

I gave up on the nylon outer- membrane laminates all together for backpacking. I have 2 - 3 of them and now just wear them around town when it's raining. Problem with them is that in a steady downpour the outer layer of nylon eventually soaks out and then your dragging around a jacket that doesn't breathe and weights about twice what it does dry.

In warmer climates I hardly wear raingear at all any more. If I do wear rain gear nowadays it's either the Equinox Anorak or the Packa. In fact, I often carry both of them on backpacking trips.

If it's hot/humid and you wear raingear you're gonna get hot and perspire ...period, paragraph, end of subject. That said, if there's a chill in the air you want a wind barrier to prevent the cooling effect from evaporation and the potential for hypothermia.

'Slogger

[Sly]

Vaporjourney, if you're looking for something cheap, that's breathable, waterproof and windproof, Frogg Toggs is about the best you can do. $30 for a set now at Sierra Trading Post.

[Captn]

The Micropore Rainsuit at Gossamer Gear dot com is only 20 bucks.

[TurkeyBacon]

You can change out of cold/wet clothes if need be or just wear the wet stuff as your body heat will dry it. Fleece and synthetic insulation jackets will also dry faster when worn and are designed to keep you warm even when wet. So lets say worst case scenerio, its been raining, you are wet and the shelter is full or non existant. Reach camp, put on additional layers, set up camp, cook in all layers getting wet, get into shelter, take off soaking wet layers, get into sleeping bag, eat, put on rain shell, clean up, get in warm sleeping bag for the rest of the night. In the morning, pack up wet camp, hike to nearest shelter, warm up on hike, repack backpack at shelter. Even in the worst case scenerio you should always have something to keep you warm (sleeping bag and naked if neccessary). Don't forget the incredibly usefullness of hats and gloves. The danger of wet and cold is when you reach camp and stop producing a lot of body heat... if that happens to the extreme situation, just hop in the sleeping bag and eat tommows lunch in the bag and cook tonights dinner in a shelter for tommows lunch. Sorry, that was a lot of rambling, my point is that the shell is only one small peice of the puzzle.
I only suffered one night for wet and cold reasons, while it wasn't fun, it didn't end my hike either.
TB

[SalParadise]

i hiked without breathable raingear and it wasn't much of a problem at all. what i actually found on colder days was that the nonbreathable material trapped every degree of heat inside that the problem actually was keeping cool enough.

[hammock engineer]

This is my take. You are concerned about freezing to death (and rightfully so), so really read and test. Most hypothermia deaths are in 50 deg rain, so I have been told. I would not go on what any one person says. I am not affraid to carry extra weight is I am not confident in something. A couple times I have carried 2 or 3 extra pounds of food and gear, just to have my bases covered.

Where is my take. As long as your insulation is not down, I would not worry too much. Fleece and syn shirts dry out pretty quickly. I have worn some in the summer and went for an unexpected swim. I would ring them out and put them back on. The dried fairly quickly and were a lot warmer than going without. I have not tested and primaloft when let, but I hear good things.

To me it comes out to walking warm and wet vs cold and wet. In the summer just a rain jacket with my shorts is enough. In the fall/spring I can hike with my rain jacket and insulation under it. If I layer right, I will not sweat much. The rainpaints only come in when really cold.

I guess what I am saying is test it for yourself.

BTW I got a golite Phantom rain jacket for 50% off at STP last year. At 15 oz for a gore tex XXL, it is pretty good. That and my cheap campmor pants puts me 3 or 4 oz over frogg toggs for something way more durable. But then again about $100 more. But I wear the jacket all the time. It is my main year around windbreaker.

[Zero_Six]

I have been using ArcTeryx for a couple years now and I am completely sold on it. I think that the fit and function alone are enough to sell the hardshells but the quality is second to none and vapor release is not an issue unless you are under aggressive activity. The softshells are a good option for someone looking for a bit of warmth and DWR but they are not ideal in a driving wind or rain. Great for agressive activity in cold weather such as high altitude climbing.

[LIhikers]

As I see it, the idea to hiking in bad weather is to stay warm, not dry. To that end I wear rain gear as an outer layer in weather that might be very windy, very cold, rainy, or even heavy fog. Then I adjust the inner layers to get the right temperature. I sweat a lot so by the end of the day I'm still wet, but I'm warm. Then when I get to camp I change into dry clothes if at all possible.

[the_iceman]

Nothing keeps rain out without keeping sweat in. If it is snowing and really cold you can usually get by without putting a water/wind proof on until you hit open peaks. Just keep the snow brushed off your shoulders and out between your back and pack.

I try to keep a set of camp clothes dry all day. Then I put them on and use my water/wind proofs to hold the heat in when I stop for the day. Try not to stop during the day in cold weather. Dress on the cool side and try to regulate your effort to regulate your body temp.

Hyperthermia is a result of loss of core temperature. It can happen in the summer as well as winter. Knowing the signs is critical which is why hiking alone in dangerous conditions is risky. Lack of reason is one of the conditions so it may be hard to judge your own condition unless you are experienced.

Your sleeping bag and tent are your ultimate protection providing you do not wait too long and lose the ability to set them up and get in.

[jrwiesz]

vaporjourney,
Get Ray Jardines' book, "Beyond Backpacking" at your local library. He addresses "Clothing" in the "Equiptment" section. I think this book is a must read, for most all thru-hikers. Many of the posts here discuss the need to "not get overheated" and "putting on dry clothes at camp", in his book he describes how to effectively attain these goals. Plus many other usefull tips and suggestions. He debunks many backpacking myths and fallicies. One of my favorites, of his suggestions, is the use of an umbrella for rain/sun protection. Give it a read; if you have time to read posts here, you have time to read his book.

[namehere]

eVent and gortex are pricey. after doing some reading on here and elsewhere, the conclusion seemed to be that goretex will eventually wet out and then take an exceeding amount of time to dry. i chose to go with eVent fabrics whenever possible. i found an eVent fabric hard shell jacket for $99 on clearance (pearl izumi forte - around 19 ounces). so far it's worked out pretty good. if you look around for deals, you may find a breathable jacket for a less ridiculous price. and i must disagree with the notion that NO jacket is both rainproof and breathable. eVent lined jackets are much more breathable than regular fabrics, and so far i've found it to be completely waterproof. only downsides to eVent jackets are that they are a bit stiffer than other shells, and weigh a slight bit more. no fabric yet is 100% breathable, but this one is the best that one can get now i think.

[rswanson]

The Micropore Rainsuit at Gossamer Gear dot com is only 20 bucks.
DriDucks (formerly Dropstoppers) Micropore raingear is very breathable and cost effective, yet waterproof. On the AT, they work great because durability isn't as much of an issue. At $20 or so a set, you can afford to try them out, anyway.

[Jim Adams]

Being a paramedic, I am very aware of my surroundings and hypothermia. The posts here are correct. The most dangerous weather to hike in is 40*--60* and rain. It can just sap the energy out of you quicker than you realize.
In rain, in these temps I usually hike in polypro tops and bottoms, shorts and a T. If the temp is in this lower range, I will add a 200 wt. polar fleece top and a warm hat and at times zip the legs onto my shorts. Usually hiking speed alone will keep you warm and yes you will get wet. When I stop for a break, I get out of the rain and I put on my precip to stop the wind and the heat loss. When I start hiking again the precip goes back into my pack. When I get to camp, I put on dry polypro, dry breathable long pants and if needed a down jacket and my precip.
You will get wet while hiking no matter what you do but the key is to stay warm while wet and stay dry when not hiking.

geek

[rafe]

Hyperthermia is a result of loss of core temperature.

I believe you meant hypothermia here.

[Chef2000]

My dream raingear is made by cloudveil tops and bottoms run about 500 bucks, but for now i have settled on Precip jacket 99 bucks and this year getting precip pant.

[soulrebel]

Patagonia Houdini windjacket+umbrella, I've noticed my jacket will go through wet and dry cycles (body heat will dry most dwr items in 15-45 minutes) during an all day freezing rain.

[rbrfuture]

I've been comfortable in rain in my silnylon poncho that covers me and my pack. It breathes and keeps my core dry. I wear fleece on the outside, coolmax shirts inside. I wear shorts and knee hi gaiters as long as I can, even in blowing snow on Mt. Rogers! I experimented with a silnylon jacket to keep my sleeves dry, but got soaked with sweat, so it was better to just have my fleece sleeves get a little wet. I could grab a piece of the poncho to cover my hands on a cold day. I use the poncho as my ground cloth under my tarp tent. I made the poncho with fabric from Quest Fabrics and the tarp tent from a Ray Jardin kit. I use socks as mitts. They work as well as mitts and then they're available as socks too. Keeping my core warm seems to be the key. My knees, feet, and lower arms get wet, but I feel toasty warm inside. Happy trails!

Mssnglnk

[VenomX]

I've been looking at the Mountain Hardware Typhoon (http://www.rei.com/online/Search.do?vcat=REI_SEARCH&vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=Typhoon&x=0&y=0) set. Any opinions? It seems really overpriced but then again I have never destroyed any of my Mountain Hardware stuff. I tend to be rough on gear.

[Big Dawg]

frogg toggs

[Photofanatic]

Whatever rain gear you decided. Get in your home shower turn the water on to the coldest temerature and and let it hit you as hard as your water pressure will allow and when you are finished you will have a basic idea of how well it works. On the trail you are sometimes hiking in the rain which means you turn into it and there is no getting out of it so you deal with it. I chose frog toggs for the weight and breathablity