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moxie
02-14-2007, 11:37
Over the years the media has painted a picture of what "normal americans" are. Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days are a few examples. Dad works, mom cooks and washes dishes, the kids all say gee and wow and never drink or smoke pot. Everyone has clean clothes, is shaven, and have bright little faces and straight teeth. Everyone is white and goes to church on Sunday. No on ever drinks or smokes. My question is, why don't we ever see these people on the AT if they are the normal Americans? No all we see are people like Baltimore jack, Blister, LW and Jester and I don't have to describe the likes of them. Oh, some of Warren Doyle's people look a little normal but they get hot meals every night and frequent showers. We need more normal people on the trail. I would suggest Whiteblaze and ALDA get together and have a two week seminar for thru hikers. It would consist of classes where they woule learn to say "gee and wow". They would learn hygene and have seminers on proper dress. They would learn to dress for dinner each evening and never eat until they say grace. Every evening of the seminar they would be required to watch re-runs of Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver. When they finish the course they would be take a bus to Springer and start their hike. For those that fall of the wagon and take up the evel of drink and smoke or even say s*it there would be refresher courses at say Hot Springs, Damascus, The Water Gap. and Monson. Only then can we expect to find what America thinks is "normal on the AT.

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 11:41
Over the years the media has painted a picture of what "normal americans" are. Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days are a few examples. Dad works, mom cooks and washes dishes, the kids all say gee and wow and never drink or smoke pot. Everyone has clean clothes, is shaven, and have bright little faces and straight teeth. Everyone is white and goes to church on Sunday. No on ever drinks or smokesWhat's wrong with that? I know that's not tolerable to some people, but I repeat, what's wrong with that?

Newb
02-14-2007, 11:50
Hmmm. I'm white, don't smoke pot, my dad works, my mom was a housewife, I have clean clothes, I shave, I have a bright little face but my teeth are little crooked. I've said "Gee" and "Wow" before. I don't go to Church on Sunday, but that's because God doesn't work on a fee for service basis. I drink like a fish. So, by your 14 point rating I score an 11. Does that make me 78% normal? I'll take it!

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 11:53
Hmmm. I'm white, don't smoke pot, my dad works, my mom was a housewife, I have clean clothes, I shave, I have a bright little face but my teeth are little crooked. I've said "Gee" and "Wow" before. I don't go to Church on Sunday, but that's because God doesn't work on a fee for service basis. I drink like a fish. So, by your 14 point rating I score an 11. Does that make me 78% normal? I'll take it!Sorry, can't tolerate that. You are too normal. Cut it out.

Fiddleback
02-14-2007, 12:04
One could argue that "normal Americans" do not imitate life and lifestyles of 50 years ago. One also could argue that "normal Americans" don't hike the AT.:D

Of course, I wouldn't propose those arguments.;) Having spent 30 years with a Lady who taught emotionally disturbed children I've learned that normality is merely the imposition of a majority's cultural perceptions upon a minority.

I would argue that diversity leads to a healthy system. Conversely, if everybody is and thinks the same; there is no growth and no progress. Eventually, the culture loses its own morals whatever they might have been...leading to a new 'normal.'

FB

Frosty
02-14-2007, 12:18
Over the years the media has painted a picture of what "normal americans" are. Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days are a few examples. Dad works, mom cooks and washes dishes, the kids all say gee and wow and ... It sounds like your TV broke in 1959, and you haven't watched any television or gone to the movies since Doris Day and Rock Hudson slept in twin beds :-?

If you are serious, the answer is that there are plenty of people who are fairly normal, or at least the type of person whose portrait you are painting. They just tend not to be overly-dramatic and call attention to themselves, which makes sense to me.

Of course, by society's standards, anyone who takes off work for five months to hike isn't "normal," so all the working age people are pretty much by definition "not normal." So already you have a large segment of the thruhiker population that isn't "normal."

For retired people, it is expected that they will do things like hike for six months, or sell the house and buy an RV, or sit in a rocking chair all day. They have "earned it" by working all their lives.

And youngsters of course are always granted leeway in odd behavior, with the belief that they will become wiser (and normal) with age. Kids in college especially can behave in ways that would be untolerated in a 40-year-old. So "normal" for them isn't what it is for me.

Lastly, I think perhaps that people tend to hang with like people. On my two short attempts at a thru, I met many people you would classify as normal, and never once saw heavy drinking. Or hardly any drinking at all, actually. Never saw anyone drunk. Perhaps it is the same for people who like to drink heavily. Perhaps they wonder where all the other type people are. Perhaps not. I have no idea.

I'm not a psychologist or sociologist, but I did stay in a cheap motel just down the road from a Holiday Inn Express a coupla week ago.

SalParadise
02-14-2007, 12:24
[QUOTE=Newb;322178] I don't go to Church on Sunday, but that's because God doesn't work on a fee for service basis. [QUOTE]

what about the collection plate? ha!


yeah, I fit in the far majority of those categories, too. I guess that makes me The Beaver, since Wally was clearly a pothead.

Moose2001
02-14-2007, 13:00
if we're so abnormal, why do so many "normal" people say they would love to do what we do!

derekthered
02-14-2007, 13:22
i'm more like eddie haskell...

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 13:36
[quote=Newb;322178] I don't go to Church on Sunday
.....and people who do should not be tolerated!

Moxie00
02-14-2007, 13:37
Well I started this thread because everything is closed in Maine today, schools, airports, stores, roads, and snow is falling at 3 inches an hour and the wind is blowing 40mph.Birds are lined up at my feeders and I thought it might be fun to stir thr soup a little. I tought it might be nice to discuss how Ozzie and Harriet never stay at shelters or hostels. People who many think of as normal just don't fit into the thru hiker community. Even some of the boy scouts you meet out there on weekend hikes often behave like junior vikings, especially when you are trying to fall asleep 100 yards from their campsite. Some normal people start but few get ver far. From my observation, and I am juat a simple country boy from Mount Vernon, Maine, the successful long distance hiker is far from normal and that is why I LOVE THE TRAIL COMMUNITY. I am different and on the trail I can associate with others that are also different. Some day Beaver and Wally may walk into my campsite but until that day I will cherish all my weird and different trail friends.

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 13:43
Well I started this thread because everything is closed in Maine today, schools, airports, stores, roads, and snow is falling at 3 inches an hour and the wind is blowing 40mph.Birds are lined up at my feeders and I thought it might be fun to stir thr soup a little. I tought it might be nice to discuss how Ozzie and Harriet never stay at shelters or hostels. People who many think of as normal just don't fit into the thru hiker community. Even some of the boy scouts you meet out there on weekend hikes often behave like junior vikings, especially when you are trying to fall asleep 100 yards from their campsite. Some normal people start but few get ver far. From my observation, and I am juat a simple country boy from Mount Vernon, Maine, the successful long distance hiker is far from normal and that is why I LOVE THE TRAIL COMMUNITY. I am different and on the trail I can associate with others that are also different. Some day Beaver and Wally may walk into my campsite but until that day I will cherish all my weird and different trail friends.I'm not weird....I'm just like you.

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 13:50
I guess what I'm trying to say is.....what's wrong with being weird? What's wrong with being normal? Should you not tolerate people because they are weird? Should you not tolerate people because they are normal? This is the USA is it not? Our troops fight for our right to be weird (or normal). Zawahiri wants us all to be normal like him. That's weird (or normal) to a lot of people in this country.

weary
02-14-2007, 13:54
What's wrong with that? I know that's not tolerable to some people, but I repeat, what's wrong with that?
Well, I guess it depends on you. I prefer reality. But some prefer myths. Perhaps, GB, when you get really gray, you will understand the grayness of America -- that Americans are not just black and white, but mostly murky shades of gray.

Weary

Frosty
02-14-2007, 14:00
Perhaps, GB, when you get really gray, you will understand the grayness of AmericaGray Blazer gets his name from his vehicle, not his hair. Lucky for him he traded in that purple Pacer for the gray Chevy Blazer before he got his trail name.

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 14:04
Well, I guess it depends on you. I prefer reality. But some prefer myths. Perhaps, GB, when you get really gray, you will understand the grayness of America -- that Americans are not just black and white, but mostly murky shades of gray.

WearyPersonally, I think I understand the grayness of USA better than a lot of people in my country. What I'm trying to say is why can we not tolerate "normalness" as described in the original post when we are expected to tolerate everything else in this society? Believe me, I am far from normal as described in the first post. But, I am American....what are you?

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 14:08
Gray Blazer gets his name from his vehicle, not his hair. Lucky for him he traded in that purple Pacer for the gray Chevy Blazer before he got his trail name.
Don't forget the pink escort before that. Now that would be a weird trail name.

mudhead
02-14-2007, 14:10
Most interesting people are half a twist from tight. I would like to meet the Beaver's Mom, as long as it would not end badly. Funniest thing I've seen since-forever.

woodsy
02-14-2007, 14:22
Normal defined:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=normal

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 14:34
Weary, I apologize for the american crack. If you read between the lines in my posts, i'm saying the same thing as you. I never said I prefer the myth. I never said I prefer anything. I was saying why are the people described in the first post not to be tolerated or in my exact words....what's wrong with that? What's wrong with a person who goes to church? What's wrong with a person who doesn't? What's wrong with being white? What's wrong with being a purple pacer? To me the answer to all these questions is nothing. But, that is my opinion. You're telling me I'm not gray enough, but I know where I can buy hair dye.

Ronin
02-14-2007, 14:38
From Woodsy's link: "Normal: An idealistic state of being that remains as such." Sounds like being on the Trail. Unfortunately, it didn't take long before I found myself at the "nip slip" page! :p

STEVEM
02-14-2007, 14:49
I'm totally normal, and plan to thruhike just as soon as the DNA test proves conclusively that I'm the daddy.

saimyoji
02-14-2007, 15:17
Snow emergencies, cities are closed, too bad out there to hike...why are you all still sober? :-? :D

moxie
02-14-2007, 16:05
Weary, I apologize for the american crack. If you read between the lines in my posts, i'm saying the same thing as you. I never said I prefer the myth. I never said I prefer anything. I was saying why are the people described in the first post not to be tolerated or in my exact words....what's wrong with that? What's wrong with a person who goes to church? What's wrong with a person who doesn't? What's wrong with being white? What's wrong with being a purple pacer? To me the answer to all these questions is nothing. But, that is my opinion. You're telling me I'm not gray enough, but I know where I can buy hair dye.
There is nothing wrong with being normal as described when I started this thread. My father was normal as described. Growing up was like living in a 1950's sitcom. Mom wore an apron and baked cookies, dad owned a store. We had a chevorlet. Nothing wrong with them it's just I didn't grow up to be like them nor did anyone I have made friends with on the trail. My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?

leeki pole
02-14-2007, 16:30
I'm totally normal, and plan to thruhike just as soon as the DNA test proves conclusively that I'm the daddy.
:mad: I'm the daddy! :)

c.coyle
02-14-2007, 17:08
There is nothing wrong with being normal as described when I started this thread. ... My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?

She speaks fluent jive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXj46u4wjqg). That ain't normal.

Lone Wolf
02-14-2007, 17:09
She speaks fluent jive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXj46u4wjqg). That ain't normal.

That sht is called ebonics now

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 18:56
There is nothing wrong with being normal as described My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?My wife always hikes with her pearls on.

c.coyle
02-14-2007, 20:03
That sht is called ebonics now

Knew you'd like that. Once I saw that flick, she would never again be the Beav's mom.

Barabara Billingsley trivia question: Why'd she always wear that pearl choker?

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 20:06
Knew you'd like that. Once I saw that flick, she would never again be the Beav's mom.

Barabara Billingsley trivia question: Why'd she always wear that pearl choker?Because she was the perfect Mom? (I suspect the real answer is funnier than that). Does it have anything to do with the ZZ Top song?

c.coyle
02-14-2007, 20:21
Because she was the perfect Mom? (I suspect the real answer is funnier than that). Does it have anything to do with the ZZ Top song?

Supposedly it was to cover a tracheotomy scar. Barbara is still alive and working. A very cool lady.

hopefulhiker
02-14-2007, 20:36
I dunno, I don't drink or smoke, have a wife and two kids. I hiked the trail but no one thought I was normal!

REBELYELL
02-14-2007, 20:41
Gee Wow Golly

Gray Blazer
02-14-2007, 20:45
I dunno, I don't drink or smoke, have a wife and two kids. I hiked the trail but no one thought I was normal!You've got to admit that's kind of abnormal.:rolleyes:

weary
02-14-2007, 22:10
I dunno, I don't drink or smoke, have a wife and two kids. I hiked the trail but no one thought I was normal!
Nor me. Though I have three kids (old type now) and enjoy bourbon and 180 proof stuff on the trail. I'm pretty much restricted to sharing a 750 l. bottle of wine at suppertime at home with my wife. I take too many medicines with directions that say things like, "do not consume alcohol without checking with your doctor."

Weary

Bravo
02-14-2007, 22:34
Nor me. Though I have three kids (old type now) and enjoy bourbon and 180 proof stuff on the trail. I'm pretty much restricted to sharing a 750 l. bottle of wine at suppertime at home with my wife. I take too many medicines with directions that say things like, "do not consume alcohol without checking with your doctor."

Weary

Let me translate-For greatest enjoyment take with alcohol.:D

smokymtnsteve
02-14-2007, 22:36
Let me translate-For greatest enjoyment take with alcohol.:D

yep alcohol and didanosine = pancreatitis..oh yes fun fun fun

Bravo
02-14-2007, 22:40
yep alcohol and didanosine = pancreatitis..oh yes fun fun fun

Ah now you're ruining all the fun. I was sitting here fantasising about enjoying some nice pain pills or anxiety pills with a few drinks and you ruined it. I guess I'll just get back to the drinks.

moxie
02-14-2007, 23:00
I also have a wife, two kids, don't smoke and the last time I had drink was to celebrate the first time Pittsburg won the super bowl in 1974. However, I don't even pretend to be what anyone would consider normal, It is just too much fun being different and I sure as hell consider different people to be more intresting. One thing I love about the trail is that by the time you hit the NC State line most normal people have left and the colorful ones are still out there.

Programbo
02-16-2007, 22:59
I agree with an above poster..It sounds like your tv broke in 1960..I think what tv now-a-days shows as "normal" would have shocked most folks back in the 1950`s..The world is a different place now..It used to be you wouldn`t think twice about cursing in front of a lady and espcially not in front of a young girl..Now it is the young girls who are using the profanity...When I was young you could spot a "bad person" by the way they looked..Now a "normal" person looks like those "bad" people back then did...It`s a shame too because as Hank Hill explained; I approve of people with tattoos and body piercing because it gives you the chance to spot those who`s minds ain`t right and avoid them...Now we have bank tellers and business women who look like that so how can we avoid the bad people?......(Obviously I`m partly kidding..But which part?...LOL)

SalParadise
02-17-2007, 00:09
I agree with an above poster..It sounds like your tv broke in 1960..I think what tv now-a-days shows as "normal" would have shocked most folks back in the 1950`s..The world is a different place now..It used to be you wouldn`t think twice about cursing in front of a lady and espcially not in front of a young girl..Now it is the young girls who are using the profanity...When I was young you could spot a "bad person" by the way they looked..Now a "normal" person looks like those "bad" people back then did...It`s a shame too because as Hank Hill explained; I approve of people with tattoos and body piercing because it gives you the chance to spot those who`s minds ain`t right and avoid them...Now we have bank tellers and business women who look like that so how can we avoid the bad people?......(Obviously I`m partly kidding..But which part?...LOL)

i know you're saying it in jest, but maybe not being able to immediately spot the odd or not-so-odd or whatever group a person belongs to is a cultural evolution for the better. it's nice that we can't so easily spot the weirdos. i'm fortunate to have made friends of potheads and drug dealers and Goths or atheists (i'm not lumping them all in, now) or whomever that in earlier times i might have just avoided to my own disadvantage.

bfitz
02-17-2007, 01:05
"All are mad save me and thee, and sometimes I fear for thee...."

Normal people scare me.

K0OPG
02-17-2007, 08:35
"If we wern't crazy, we'd all go insane" Jimmy Buffett

Jester2000
02-18-2007, 04:54
. . . and the last time I had drink was to celebrate the first time Pittsburg won the super bowl in 1974.

Well, see, that's just sad.

I am, by my own standards, completely normal.

Hana_Hanger
02-18-2007, 05:27
My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?


Maybe you are just hiking the wrong trails!!!:banana

StarLyte
02-18-2007, 08:18
Mainstream is boring, ugly, predictable.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-18-2007, 10:17
My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?Because June Cleaver's goals and ideals do not mesh well with an endeavor that would involve being away from the family - not to mention not being able to bathe regularly, do one's hair, properly care for nails, skin and teeth. Also, June's wardrobe would be kind of difficult to use on the trail - the pumps especially. June Cleavers are still around, but you're not going to seee them on the trail.

weary
02-18-2007, 10:56
I agree with an above poster..It sounds like your tv broke in 1960..I think what tv now-a-days shows as "normal" would have shocked most folks back in the 1950`s..The world is a different place now..It used to be you wouldn`t think twice about cursing in front of a lady and espcially not in front of a young girl..Now it is the young girls who are using the profanity...When I was young you could spot a "bad person" by the way they looked..Now a "normal" person looks like those "bad" people back then did...It`s a shame too because as Hank Hill explained; I approve of people with tattoos and body piercing because it gives you the chance to spot those who`s minds ain`t right and avoid them...Now we have bank tellers and business women who look like that so how can we avoid the bad people?......(Obviously I`m partly kidding..But which part?...LOL)

Among the normal things I've discovered after cataract surgery is that the world suddenly has a bluish tinge, which means that I can hardly read posts by folks like Programbo, who like to post in blue type. Blue on blue reading difficulties aside, the world has taken on a whole new look -- a look that only those who have had cataract surgery, and new born babies ever see.

Eye people tell me that the human eyes gradually shifts from emphasizing blue to seeing the world with a yellow tinge, which is why, Moxie, so many adults fail to see that yellow snow you warn us against.

Weary

superman
02-18-2007, 11:14
You don't have to be crazy to hike the AT... but it helps. Yet another reason to tent.

I didn't like "Leave it to Beaver" because it was eerie how they made episodes about stuff I did. Remember the broken lamp episode?

Normal....I don't need no sticken normal.

Skyline
02-18-2007, 11:54
I've met guys who reminded me of Wally and the Beav on the AT. It was somewhere between Springer and Neels Gap. Not too many of 'em got much further. Gee, wow, I wonder why...

Skyline
02-18-2007, 11:59
Come to think of it, I ran into June and Ward one night at a shelter. It was Partnership Shelter, and they'd hiked all the way in from...the Mt. Rogers Visitor Center.

GlazeDog
02-18-2007, 12:03
why don't we ever see these people on the AT

They're just wearing disguises. I call it trail-camo.

GlazeDog;)

bfitz
02-18-2007, 14:06
I also have a wife, two kids, don't smoke and the last time I had drink was to celebrate the first time Pittsburg won the super bowl in 1974. However, I don't even pretend to be what anyone would consider normal, It is just too much fun being different and I sure as hell consider different people to be more intresting. One thing I love about the trail is that by the time you hit the NC State line most normal people have left and the colorful ones are still out there.SMS will advise you how to deal with anxiety and pain, and you can mix with alcohol, no problem!

bfitz
02-18-2007, 14:08
Ah now you're ruining all the fun. I was sitting here fantasising about enjoying some nice pain pills or anxiety pills with a few drinks and you ruined it. I guess I'll just get back to the drinks.SMS will advise you how to deal with anxiety and pain, and you can mix with alcohol, no problem!

bfitz
02-18-2007, 14:12
Among the normal things I've discovered after cataract surgery is that the world suddenly has a bluish tinge, which means that I can hardly read posts by folks like Programbo, who like to post in blue type. Blue on blue reading difficulties aside, the world has taken on a whole new look -- a look that only those who have had cataract surgery, and new born babies ever see.

Eye people tell me that the human eyes gradually shifts from emphasizing blue to seeing the world with a yellow tinge, which is why, Moxie, so many adults fail to see that yellow snow you warn us against.

Weary
You need some rose colored glasses, my friend. I will loan you a pair of mine!

Fiddleback
03-04-2007, 12:07
Like the cliche, 'the only constant is change', perhaps the only normality is change. As for the media's portrayal of the 'American family' and lifestyle vs. the real world, check this out, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17445891/ , "Numbers drop for the married with children -- institution becoming the choice of the educated, affluent"

Quote: Punctuating a fundamental change in American family life, married couples with children now occupy fewer than one in every four households -- a share that has been slashed in half since 1960 and is the lowest ever recorded by the census...
Marriage has declined across all income groups, but it has declined far less among couples who make the most money and have the best education. These couples are also less likely to divorce. Many demographers peg the rise of a class-based marriage gap to the erosion since 1970 of the broad-based economic prosperity that followed World War II.
"We seem to be reverting to a much older pattern, when elites marry and a great many others live together and have kids," said Peter Francese, demographic trends analyst for Ogilvy & Mather, an advertising firm...EndQuote

mweinstone
03-04-2007, 12:20
in a world of sin, this all is normal.

doggiebag
03-04-2007, 16:05
Over the years the media has painted a picture of what "normal americans" are. Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days are a few examples. Dad works, mom cooks and washes dishes, the kids all say gee and wow and never drink or smoke pot. Everyone has clean clothes, is shaven, and have bright little faces and straight teeth. Everyone is white and goes to church on Sunday. No on ever drinks or smokes. My question is, why don't we ever see these people on the AT if they are the normal Americans? No all we see are people like Baltimore jack, Blister, LW and Jester and I don't have to describe the likes of them. Oh, some of Warren Doyle's people look a little normal but they get hot meals every night and frequent showers. We need more normal people on the trail. I would suggest Whiteblaze and ALDA get together and have a two week seminar for thru hikers. It would consist of classes where they woule learn to say "gee and wow". They would learn hygene and have seminers on proper dress. They would learn to dress for dinner each evening and never eat until they say grace. Every evening of the seminar they would be required to watch re-runs of Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver. When they finish the course they would be take a bus to Springer and start their hike. For those that fall of the wagon and take up the evel of drink and smoke or even say s*it there would be refresher courses at say Hot Springs, Damascus, The Water Gap. and Monson. Only then can we expect to find what America thinks is "normal on the AT.
IMHO if you have honor, respect for others and keep your word you can hike with me and share my camp regardless if you are: normal, abnormal, rich, poor, clean, unclean, christian, muslim, buddist, pothead, fat, thin, white, black, green, straight, gay, bi, tri, two headed ....whatever. Be who you are - as I am always who I am (WYSIWYG). There are too many reasons to dislike people on a individual basis than to simplify the presence or absence of what normal should be anywhere.
Ps. Who gives a rat's ass what the media portrays as what normal should be.

Schulo
03-04-2007, 16:20
I have a great distain for mainstream. My wife comes from Beaver world and likes to see everything sugar coated. I on the other hand like to look at the world for what it really is. So that being said I am going for a two week hike on the AT in april while she takes the kids to Disney World. Who is normal her, or me? I think how this question is answered has alot to do with an individuals background.

Obsidian
03-04-2007, 19:09
My question was why don't you see people like June Cleaver on the trail?


Perhaps after the invention of the ultralight petticoat?

doggiebag
03-04-2007, 19:30
I have a great distain for mainstream. My wife comes from Beaver world and likes to see everything sugar coated. I on the other hand like to look at the world for what it really is. So that being said I am going for a two week hike on the AT in april while she takes the kids to Disney World. Who is normal her, or me? I think how this question is answered has alot to do with an individuals background.

You both are normal ... it's for the kids. Let them do the Disney thing ... the real world will always be there as they grow into it. In the mean time - you're lucky the wife understands your need to howl at the moon.

Grampie
03-05-2007, 10:46
After my wife had met several of my hiker friends she asked; "Is anyone who hikes the AT normal."
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

Crazy Larry #1
03-05-2007, 12:19
Over the years the media has painted a picture of what "normal americans" are. Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days are a few examples. Dad works, mom cooks and washes dishes, the kids all say gee and wow and never drink or smoke pot. Everyone has clean clothes, is shaven, and have bright little faces and straight teeth. Everyone is white and goes to church on Sunday. No on ever drinks or smokes. My question is, why don't we ever see these people on the AT if they are the normal Americans? No all we see are people like Baltimore jack, Blister, LW and Jester and I don't have to describe the likes of them. Oh, some of Warren Doyle's people look a little normal but they get hot meals every night and frequent showers. We need more normal people on the trail. I would suggest Whiteblaze and ALDA get together and have a two week seminar for thru hikers. It would consist of classes where they woule learn to say "gee and wow". They would learn hygene and have seminers on proper dress. They would learn to dress for dinner each evening and never eat until they say grace. Every evening of the seminar they would be required to watch re-runs of Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver. When they finish the course they would be take a bus to Springer and start their hike. For those that fall of the wagon and take up the evel of drink and smoke or even say s*it there would be refresher courses at say Hot Springs, Damascus, The Water Gap. and Monson. Only then can we expect to find what America thinks is "normal on the AT.
GEE! WOW! GOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY! DADBURNITALL! How's that for starters?:banana :D

Footslogger
03-05-2007, 12:27
After my wife had met several of my hiker friends she asked; "Is anyone who hikes the AT normal."
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

==============================

...and she hasn't even met ME yet Grampie !!

'Slogger

Gray Blazer
03-05-2007, 12:40
Mainstream is boring, ugly, predictable.I know what you are trying to say. I'm far from mainstream....but my question still remains unanswered.....Why are mainstreamers expected to tolerate everyone else, but at the same time, no one has tolerance for mainstreamers as evidenced by the above post? In the meantime, here are some PC icons...:welcome :) :mad: Notice there are no european/american icons available.:confused:

doggiebag
03-05-2007, 12:58
I know what you are trying to say. I'm far from mainstream....but my question still remains unanswered.....Why are mainstreamers expected to tolerate everyone else, but at the same time, no one has tolerance for mainstreamers as evidenced by the above post? In the meantime, here are some PC icons...:welcome :) :mad: Notice there are no european/american icons available.:confused:

Missing european/american smileys? LOL you are hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. I believe the last big European icon that affected humanity is now banned in Germany. Uniformity/normality was also encouraged by it's philosophy.

LeeF
03-05-2007, 13:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxie http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=322165#post322165)
why don't we ever see these people on the AT

They're just wearing disguises. I call it trail-camo.
GlazeDog;)

GlazeDog,
You may be on to something. Are there closet hikers, just like Harley Riders, out there? You guys know what I mean, yuppies Monday-Friday then wearing the leathers and the rest of the costume on Saturday and Sunday.

Gray Blazer
03-05-2007, 15:09
Missing european/american smileys? LOL you are hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. I believe the last big European icon that affected humanity is now banned in Germany. Uniformity/normality was also encouraged by it's philosophy.OK, this is the last time I try to explain this. If everyone has disdain for uniform/normal anglo-saxon americans, aren't they falling into the same trap where they are uniform/normal in their disdain for the so-called normal group? The hippies wanted to be different, but by being so, they all became the same. I say there is nothing wrong with being normal. There is nothing wrong with being not so normal. It's like the I'm OK, you're OK thing.

doggiebag
03-05-2007, 15:21
OK, this is the last time I try to explain this. If everyone has disdain for uniform/normal anglo-saxon americans, aren't they falling into the same trap where they are uniform/normal in their disdain for the so-called normal group? The hippies wanted to be different, but by being so, they all became the same. I say there is nothing wrong with being normal. There is nothing wrong with being not so normal. It's like the I'm OK, you're OK thing.

No disdain here for entire groups since there are plenty of reasons to find stupidity to despise idiots and insecure fockers on a individual basis. LOL.

weary
03-05-2007, 17:42
"All are mad save me and thee, and sometimes I fear for thee...."
Normal people scare me.
I think the "Leave it to Beaver" culture has a new meaning these days. The New York Times Magazine Sunday had a big feature on the student edited, student photographed magazines at major universities that feature nude students, both male and female, in various sexual poses.

One 21 year old editor (and recent journalism grad) said she would prefer the the nudes be anonymous, but, she said, they all want to be identified. They are proud of their bodies.

I'm not making a judgment. Just an observation. But we have trumpeted sex in stories, novels, and advertising for decades. One should not be surprised to discover that kids have accepted our message.

Weary

The Weasel
03-05-2007, 18:01
No disdain here for entire groups since there are plenty of reasons to find stupidity to despise idiots and insecure fockers on a individual basis. LOL.

As I've read this thread, I was struck that no one has mentioned that 'normal' originally (and still, in scientific areas) means "a standard" or a "type", as in he word "norm" or "normative." The Beaver/Happy Days "norm" was the housewife mom/worker dad/two kids/house-with-lawn, but, as a boomer myself, we always recognized that this was not so much how things were, but how everyone wanted them to be. Probably the most touching song in "Little Shop of Horros" is "Somewhere That's Green," with its invocation of every one of the little stereotypes, from the lawn to the toaster and the plastic slip covers. But everyone who sees/hears it knows that it's sweet, not judgmental: It says, "This is what most of us want, even if it's not real, and we won't ever get it. Still, it's what we want." That's a norm.

Other norms came into play in the 60s, and many more since then, and our society no long has common norms for what families can or should be. That's not bad. But for many of us, that old norm remains a model, and not a bad one.

So we still like it, and many of us who are, or have been, on the Trail, are believers in it, for good or ill.

The Weasel

dperry
03-05-2007, 18:24
I'm not making a judgment. Just an observation. But we have trumpeted sex in stories, novels, and advertising for decades. One should not be surprised to discover that kids have accepted our message.

Weary

. . .and, unfortunately, we've also promoted some other ideas that definitely are dumb, such as the opinion on marriage of the woman quoted at the end of the article Fiddleback posted. That kind of thinking is likely to have detrimental effects on her, her ex and her significant other, and her kids.

bfitz
03-05-2007, 18:36
I think the "Leave it to Beaver" culture has a new meaning these days. The New York Times Magazine Sunday had a big feature on the student edited, student photographed magazines at major universities that feature nude students, both male and female, in various sexual poses.

One 21 year old editor (and recent journalism grad) said she would prefer the the nudes be anonymous, but, she said, they all want to be identified. They are proud of their bodies.

I'm not making a judgment. Just an observation. But we have trumpeted sex in stories, novels, and advertising for decades. One should not be surprised to discover that kids have accepted our message.

Weary
I must research this issue....Where can I find these magazines. Link?:p

bfitz
03-05-2007, 18:39
. . .and, unfortunately, we've also promoted some other ideas that definitely are dumb, such as the opinion on marriage of the woman quoted at the end of the article Fiddleback posted. That kind of thinking is likely to have detrimental effects on her, her ex and her significant other, and her kids.Well, it's the united states of america, where we have the right to (most of) our own stupid mistakes....

OK, this is the last time I try to explain this. If everyone has disdain for uniform/normal anglo-saxon americans, aren't they falling into the same trap where they are uniform/normal in their disdain for the so-called normal group? The hippies wanted to be different, but by being so, they all became the same. I say there is nothing wrong with being normal. There is nothing wrong with being not so normal. It's like the I'm OK, you're OK thing....and to hate whomever we want. This is what makes America great!

weary
03-05-2007, 22:32
. . .and, unfortunately, we've also promoted some other ideas that definitely are dumb, such as the opinion on marriage of the woman quoted at the end of the article Fiddleback posted. That kind of thinking is likely to have detrimental effects on her, her ex and her significant other, and her kids.
Well, I guess you are talking about some of these words:

"Victoria Miller and Cameron Roach, who have been living together for 18 months, are two such people, and they say they cannot imagine getting married.

She is 22 and manages a Burger King in Seattle. He is 24 and works part time testing software in the Seattle suburb of Redmond. Together, they earn less than $20,000 a year and are living with Roach's father. They cannot afford to live anywhere else.

"Marriage ruins life," Roach said. "I saw how much my parents fought. I saw how miserable they made each other."

Miller, who was pressured by her Mormon parents to marry when she was 17 and pregnant, said her short, failed marriage and her parents' long, failed marriage have convinced her that the institution is often bad for children. Shuttled between her mom and dad, she moved eight times before she was 16.

"With my parents, when their marriage started breaking down, my dad started to have trouble at work and we spent years on government assistance," Miller said.

Her two young sons live with their father."

------------------

Whatever. In answer to your question, I don't pretend to offer solutions to all social problems. I spend my time mostly trying to protect the Appalachian Trail in Maine -- i.e. to try to avoid the Maine trail, which remains wild, from becoming civilized like most of the 2,000 miles.

But since you ask, I think children probably achieve best when they have been raised by two parents in a friendly household. But I can't claim any personal evidence to speak of. I have three great kids. all of whom I love dearly. They all grew up in a friendly household. All have kids. None are married. One once was. The marriage was probably a mistake. But what do I know.

Two grandkids are in excellent colleges, but live with the alleged handicap of a broken home. Another, my oldest grandchild, who allegedly has a learning disability, and who grew up in a single parent household, quit high school as a sophomore over the objections of his mother.

As a compromise after weeks of dispute, my daughter said, okay, "if you can pass your GED." He did on his first try. He has been gainfully employed ever since in a challenging but not particularly very well paying job.

His oldest cousin, will be going to the Univerity of Maine next fall, we hope.

Two other grandkids are in high school or about to enter same. Then we have a 2-year-old who visits us most weekends with his father ... who incidentally is also the father of the "oldest cousin" mentioned above, though the mothers are different.

Anyway, we all remain reasonably friendly. Most show up for periodic family dinners, and summer lobster bakes. My wife and I from time to time offer help in their passage through life, as did her parents and my parents, from time to time, offer us.

I think mine qualifies for what is a "normal" family these days. YMMV.

Weary

Gray Blazer
03-05-2007, 23:20
Well, it's the united states of america, where we have the right to (most of) our own stupid mistakes....
...and to hate whomever we want. This is what makes America great!
Now you're getting it.:D

dperry
03-06-2007, 00:31
Well, it's the united states of america, where we have the right to (most of) our own stupid mistakes....


True. That doesn't mean we should encourage them.

dperry
03-06-2007, 00:38
With regards to the lady in Seattle, I'm mostly distressed by her conclusion that marriage in general sucks because a.) her parents (who are only one couple) had a bad marriage and b.) her first marriage failed (well, duh--she was 17, and probably not in love with the guy in the first place.)

And yes, if her parents pushed her into an ill-advised marriage and/or didn't teach her about birth control, which is what caused all these problems in the first place, then they deserve to be smacked a bit too.

And yes, not all failed marriages work out badly for the man, the woman, or the children. However, the statistics say that it's not a good bet.

bfitz
03-06-2007, 02:27
With regards to the lady in Seattle, I'm mostly distressed by her conclusion that marriage in general sucks because a.) her parents (who are only one couple) had a bad marriage and b.) her first marriage failed (well, duh--she was 17, and probably not in love with the guy in the first place.)

And yes, if her parents pushed her into an ill-advised marriage and/or didn't teach her about birth control, which is what caused all these problems in the first place, then they deserve to be smacked a bit too.

And yes, not all failed marriages work out badly for the man, the woman, or the children. However, the statistics say that it's not a good bet.Obviously she learned her relationship skills from her parents, too, so whaddya expect? They were the ones who pressured her in the first place.

Fiddleback
03-06-2007, 11:11
I know what you are trying to say. I'm far from mainstream....but my question still remains unanswered.....Why are mainstreamers expected to tolerate everyone else, but at the same time, no one has tolerance for mainstreamers as evidenced by the above post?...Notice there are no european/american icons available.:confused:

The answer begins to surface in doggiebag's response, "I believe the last big European icon that affected humanity is now banned in Germany. Uniformity/normality was also encouraged by it's philosophy."

Mainstreamers (read; majority) rule. The rights of weaker groups are always at risk; hence in many countries there is an effort to ensure their rights and end the tendency to look down on the downtrodden and economically disadvantaged. On the other hand, there is a group bias against the big and strong; Microsoft, WalMart, the world's perception of the United States. Even sports teams...many love to hate the Yankees and the Cowboys (although that's really kicking someone when they're down:) ).

So...look down upon the big and strong, look down on the disadvantaged...the large, controlling group generally expresses a bias against all those that aren't part of the group. In some countries, then, laws, social attitudes, and values that protect the weaker groups are promulgated as 'the right thing to do.'

FB

LIhikers
03-06-2007, 11:33
Normal is just a statistical average of all people but doesn't describe any real person. So, in that sense NONE of us is "normal". I guess I'd describe the "Father knows best, Leave it to Beaver" condition as bland.

weary
03-06-2007, 12:29
I must research this issue....Where can I find these magazines. Link?:p
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04sexmagazines.t.html?em&ex=1173330000&en=3f778d16ac6e230f&ei=5070

But it may not open. I think you need to be a paid subscriber to a NYT internet service. News stories are available for free. But editorials, op ed pieces, and, I think, magazine pieces cost money.

I can forward pieces to those who I have email addresses, however, I think. I've never tried it.

Weary

Brrrb Oregon
03-06-2007, 13:23
June Cleavers are still around, but you're not going to seee them on the trail.
Yes, especially if you think you know what she would look like while out hiking, when in fact, you probably don't. Those in her book group who won't go out without a girdle never make it to the trailhead. Those who will look a little bit different than they do on Sundays.

Maybe you think that because she keeps a neat home that she doesn't know how to have fun and get dirty at the same time.

Maybe you think that because she had a well-ordered life that she doesn't know how to deal with it when she can't plan everything that might happen to her in the course of a day.

Maybe you think that because she isn't act shocked at your limited and vulgar vocabulary that she talks like that herself. Don't forget: she's not your mother, and she's on her own hike. That you can't remember what your mom taught you doesn't mean it is June's job to fix you. And believe me: after 25 years of volunteering at the hospital, she's heard it all and seen it all. She knows a few jokes that would make you blush.

Maybe you think that because she spent so many of her days thinking of her family that she doesn't know how to take time for herself.

The truth is, the kids are all out of college, she just graduated herself, and she figured, "Why not?" Because of 30 years of clipping coupons and buying hamburger on sale, she has the money. She's a widow now, nothing's keeping her at home. But because she's on the AT, dirty and grimy and having the time of her life, you don't imagine that maybe she spent 25 years of her life making lunches, breaking up fights, picking up after everybody else, and camping out of a station wagon four times a summer.

As you probably all know, the late Pope John Paul II was an avid hiker. Did you know that when he went out, almost no one ever recognized him? Take off the white clothes and leave the crozier back at the Vatican, and he looked like Charlie Brown's grandpa. He didn't walk down the trail giving the papal blessing to everybody who walked by. Because people thought they would know what he looked like while out hiking, he was totally incognito.

You think you know June. Maybe that is why you never see her.

doggiebag
03-06-2007, 13:28
Yes, especially if you think you know what she would look like while out hiking, when in fact, you probably don't. Those in her book group who won't go out without a girdle never make it to the trailhead. Those who will look a little bit different than they do on Sundays.

Maybe you think that because she keeps a neat home that she doesn't know how to have fun and get dirty at the same time.

Maybe you think that because she had a well-ordered life that she doesn't know how to deal with it when she can't plan everything that might happen to her in the course of a day.

Maybe you think that because she isn't act shocked at your limited and vulgar vocabulary that she talks like that herself. Don't forget: she's not your mother, and she's on her own hike. That you can't remember what your mom taught you doesn't mean it is June's job to fix you. And believe me: after 25 years of volunteering at the hospital, she's heard it all and seen it all. She knows a few jokes that would make you blush.

Maybe you think that because she spent so many of her days thinking of her family that she doesn't know how to take time for herself.

The truth is, the kids are all out of college, she just graduated herself, and she figured, "Why not?" Because of 30 years of clipping coupons and buying hamburger on sale, she has the money. She's a widow now, nothing's keeping her at home. But because she's on the AT, dirty and grimy and having the time of her life, you don't imagine that maybe she spent 25 years of her life making lunches, breaking up fights, picking up after everybody else, and camping out of a station wagon four times a summer.

As you probably all know, the late Pope John Paul II was an avid hiker. Did you know that when he went out, almost no one ever recognized him? Take off the white clothes and leave the crozier back at the Vatican, and he looked like Charlie Brown's grandpa. He didn't walk down the trail giving the papal blessing to everybody who walked by. Because people thought they would know what he looked like while out hiking, he was totally incognito.

You think you know June. Maybe that is why you never see her.
Well thought and well said. I love it.

Gray Blazer
03-06-2007, 15:03
The answer begins to surface in doggiebag's response, "I believe the last big European icon that affected humanity is now banned in Germany. Uniformity/normality was also encouraged by it's philosophy."


When I spoke of icons I meant the icons we can choose from to put in our posts available from WB. A swastika is far different from a smiley face or a dancing banana. I was also being tounge-in-cheek mentioning that there were no "white" icons. Being a white person myself, I know that some people consider me evil incarnate and prejudge me because of my skin color. Like Obama, I was "conceived" during the civil rights movement and was raised to believe everyone is equal. I believe there is room in USA for all people, normal or not. What's wrong with being white? What's wrong with being black? What's wrong with being female? What's wrong with being male? What's wrong with being a hiker? :) :banana

Moxie00
03-06-2007, 17:11
Okey, the truth had to come out. About eight years ago June Cleaver burned her apron, shot her hairdresser, told Ward to screw off, put a 10 year supply of meatloaf and egg salad in the freezer for Beaver and Wally and hit the trail. You would never recgonize her today except at ALDA meetings when she sometimes appears in an actual dress. Just never make the mistake of calling Blister, June because she really wants to forget her past.

The Weasel
03-06-2007, 17:28
I know what you are trying to say. I'm far from mainstream....but my question still remains unanswered.....Why are mainstreamers expected to tolerate everyone else, but at the same time, no one has tolerance for mainstreamers as evidenced by the above post? In the meantime, here are some PC icons...:welcome :) :mad: Notice there are no european/american icons available.:confused:

Actually, almost everyone is forced to have tolerance for us "mainstreamers." We tend to be overwhelmingly white, Christian, male-dominated, and disproportionately the leaders in business, the professions, religion and government. While that's changing - and that's a very good thing, in my book - what it means is that pretty much most of the country still has to be nice to us - and is - if they want a job, a loan for a place to live, a face to look at in the pulpit, or some consideration from the police officer.

Interestingly, in my new home here in California, Anglo-Caucasians are poised to be less than a majority here almost any day for the first time since we forced Mexico to "give" us this state. When that happens, us "mainstreamers" won't be the "mainstream" any longer, and we'll learn to be as polite to non-Caucasians as they, for a hundred years or so, have believed (and usually rightly) they have had to be nice to us. This is not a bad thing.

The Weasel

The Weasel
03-06-2007, 17:33
What's wrong with being male? What's wrong with being a hiker? [/quote]

Well, one of my best friends has discovered that he is gender-inappropriate, and is in the process of converting to being female. (Before anyone comments on how crazy California is, my friend is from the heart of the Midwest.)

So, from his point of view, there is a lot wrong with being male.

It's a wonderful world, isn't it?

The Weasel

Brrrb Oregon
03-06-2007, 18:26
Okey, the truth had to come out. About eight years ago June Cleaver burned her apron, shot her hairdresser, told Ward to screw off, put a 10 year supply of meatloaf and egg salad in the freezer for Beaver and Wally and hit the trail. You would never recgonize her today except at ALDA meetings when she sometimes appears in an actual dress. Just never make the mistake of calling Blister, June because she really wants to forget her past.

You don't know many of these old gals, do you? If Beaver and Wally aren't married and producing grandchildren by now, they'll be lucky to get the recipes for the meat loaf and the egg salad. Golly gee that, boys.

By the way, that wasn't the first time she told Ward off. She just had enough class that she never did it in front of the children. And June would never stiff a hairdresser, let alone shoot one. The only exception would be a hairdresser having an affair with Ward, and he would have gotten the first bullet. (Divorce: Never. Homicide: Maybe....and when I do, not a jury in the world would convict me.)

Let's just hope that all those years in heels didn't shorten her tendons too much. It happened to my grandmother. Very painful.

Gray Blazer
03-06-2007, 21:58
What's wrong with being male? What's wrong with being a hiker?

Well, one of my best friends has discovered that he is gender-inappropriate, and is in the process of converting to being female. (Before anyone comments on how crazy California is, my friend is from the heart of the Midwest.)

So, from his point of view, there is a lot wrong with being male.

It's a wonderful world, isn't it?

The Weasel[/quote]You guys have me laughing. Although those questions aren't supposed to be answered, I knew you guys would come up with some good answers.

The Weasel
03-06-2007, 22:25
Well, one of my best friends has discovered that he is gender-inappropriate, and is in the process of converting to being female. (Before anyone comments on how crazy California is, my friend is from the heart of the Midwest.)

So, from his point of view, there is a lot wrong with being male.

It's a wonderful world, isn't it?

The WeaselYou guys have me laughing. Although those questions aren't supposed to be answered, I knew you guys would come up with some good answers.[/quote]

GrayBlazer, you sort of messed up (happens, I know) to the "quote" function. The "quote" from me in the little gray box, isn't from me. The quote from me you used isn't in the box. Can you edit it correctly or ask our beloved Administrators to fix it, so I'm not misunderstood? :-?

Footslogger
03-06-2007, 22:37
One of the nicest things my wife said to me when we first met was ..."You're SO normal". No idea what she meant but we've been together for a long time now and still going strong !!

'Slogger

Gray Blazer
03-07-2007, 08:24
You guys have me laughing. Although those questions aren't supposed to be answered, I knew you guys would come up with some good answers.

GrayBlazer, you sort of messed up (happens, I know) to the "quote" function. The "quote" from me in the little gray box, isn't from me. The quote from me you used isn't in the box. Can you edit it correctly or ask our beloved Administrators to fix it, so I'm not misunderstood? :-?[/quote]Yeah, I don't know how that happened and I don't know how to fix it. Where's an administrator when you need one? :-?

Gray Blazer
03-07-2007, 08:25
I did it again. Sorry weasel.

Gray Blazer
03-07-2007, 08:26
Ok, everybody, read the last 4 posts carefully so you know who said what.

Krewzer
03-07-2007, 09:33
Normal.... dirty, smelly, hungry. Mostly hair and bones, large calves, quads and Heart.
...and miles to go before I sleep.

Grampie
03-07-2007, 11:00
One of the nicest things my wife said to me when we first met was ..."You're SO normal". No idea what she meant but we've been together for a long time now and still going strong !!

'Slogger

That was only because you are both AT hikers. Like I said before, "beauty is in the eys of the beholder.";)

Skyline
03-07-2007, 11:14
Ward kicked the bucket in 1982.

Footslogger
03-07-2007, 11:27
That was only because you are both AT hikers. Like I said before, "beauty is in the eys of the beholder.";)

==================================

Yeah ...I left that part out. Perspective definitely shapes perception.

Either way though, it's nice to be thought of as "normal" ...

'Slogger

Brrrb Oregon
03-07-2007, 14:22
Ward kicked the bucket in 1982.

Yeah, well, pipe-smoking was wholesome and distinguished back then. Good thing for June that she was too busy to didn't around to enjoy it second-hand.

Brrrb Oregon
03-07-2007, 14:23
Yeah, well, pipe-smoking was wholesome and distinguished back then. Good thing for June that she was too busy to stick around to enjoy it second-hand.

I'm not on drugs; just short on coffee. Well, that's my excuse.

whitefoot_hp
03-08-2007, 14:37
what if you go the AT to get away from the "normies"?

Skyline
03-08-2007, 16:21
what if you go the AT to get away from the "normies"?

Then you should be happy to be among Hiker Trash.

Brrrb Oregon
03-08-2007, 17:46
what if you go the AT to get away from the "normies"?

The number of people encountered on any trail is proportional to the inverse of the distance from the parking lot, taken to the third power. Based on the Neilsen ratings, this can probably be taken to the sixth power for any American citizen who statistically qualifies as "normal". Unfortunately, the number doesn't asymptotically approach zero if the trail has ever appeared in Backpacker magazine or if any creatures living in the area are "in season" for hunting with a rifle.

If the AT doesn't work, try trails without shelters and with trailheads several hours from civilization, preferably without any safe sources of water and certainly without cell phone service and Wi-Fi access. That the place not be available to either snowmobiles or motorcycles is a must.....normal people love those things.

After that, I think you're kind of stuck with countries without stable governments. Normal people avoid those like the plague. Where there is a will, there is a way.

You might still meet June Cleaver, though. If she had picked up jive by 1982, she probably has several other languages under her belt by now, the industrious little wench. ;)