View Full Version : Law for backpackers (reality based version)
TJ aka Teej
02-14-2007, 18:28
Don't break the law, be respectful of others.
The Weasel
02-14-2007, 18:54
There is much more to it - for those who want reality - than just respecting others. If you don't know what some laws provide, you may miss opportunities that you might want to have taken advantage of. Health payment/insurance is one example of that. In other cases, you might think you are being "respectful" of others and find out you're in serious trouble, such as walking nude on the AT on the "Nude Backpacking Day." There are a lot of other examples.
Teej is right: Respect is a big part of it, but so is knowledge. It really is true that "ignorance of the law is no excuse."
The Weasel
max patch
02-14-2007, 19:13
Excellent post, TJ. Thats all you need to know. Unless, of course, you plan on breaking the law. Then I guess you oughta read Weazies thots on how to avoid being searched, etc.
Two Speed
02-14-2007, 19:28
There is much more to it - . . . You've got your own thread to pontificate on. Why not leave it at that?
smokymtnsteve
02-14-2007, 19:33
You've got your own thread to pontificate on. Why not leave it at that?
cause here in amerika thar is much more to the law than dat???
u jist wait one day you'll need a lawyer....
how bout when dem terroist start putting ieds up thar prosteriors and then the lawman wants to look up yourn.
I only hike in lawless areas, never had a problem. Does this make me an outlaw?:D
The Weasel
02-14-2007, 21:03
You've got your own thread to pontificate on. Why not leave it at that?
Oh, yeah, sorry. I forgot the rule that says, "One thread per person." I kinda also forgot the rule that says, "Two Speed decides who gets to post, and where." When I remember those, I'll stop posting where you don't want me to. Thanks for reminding me.
In the meanwhile, I reiterate: TJ makes a very good point: Treat others with respect, and you reduce your need to know a lot of legal details. You don't eliminate that need, but you make a big start.
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-14-2007, 21:05
I only hike in lawless areas, never had a problem. Does this make me an outlaw?:D
Only if you want to be.
The Weasel
4eyedbuzzard
02-14-2007, 21:14
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
Does anyone think knowing the law will prevent a LEO from searching your pack if he wants to?
Does anyone think a local judge is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over a local LEO?
Lone Wolf
02-14-2007, 21:16
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
Does anyone think knowing the law will prevent a LEO from searching your pack if he wants to?
Does anyone think a local judge is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over a local LEO?
over 20 years on the trail and i've never heard of it. happens extremely rarely.
The Weasel
02-14-2007, 21:21
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
Yes. I've seen it occur twice. I'm also aware of at least three other "stops" by LEOs of thrus from other threads here.
Yes. It will not stop all of them, but it may give some of them pause to be asked, "Do you have a warrant?" Saying that tells an LEO that the speaker has at least basic knowledge of the law, and makes it very hard for the LEO to later say that it was a 'consent search.'
[quote=4eyedbuzzard;322632Does anyone think a local judge is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over a local LEO?
Yes. This is particularly true for federal judges (if a federal crime is charged, such as some drug offenses). Most state court judges will try to follow the law, too, particularly if the facts strongly favor the accused, making it hard for a judge to "decide wrong." It also makes it easier, in a serious offense, to win an appeal.
The Weasel
Two Speed
02-14-2007, 21:34
. . . Why not leave it at that?
Oh, yeah, sorry. I forgot the rule that says, "One thread per person." I kinda also forgot the rule that says, "Two Speed decides who gets to post, and where." When I remember those, I'll stop posting where you don't want me to. Thanks for reminding me.I don't believe I said you couldn't post here. The question was "why not leave it at that" and I didn't request an apology, but thanks anyway.
In the meanwhile, I reiterate: TJ makes a very good point: Treat others with respect, and you reduce your need to know a lot of legal details. You don't eliminate that need, but you make a big start.
The WeaselWell, we've got one point we can agree on.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-14-2007, 21:52
Do to others as you would have them do to you. I have never had any trouble with LEO's while doing this.
smokymtnsteve
02-14-2007, 21:55
I have never had any trouble with LEO's while doing this.
well not unless U wuz sharin a joint with another, then U could have trouble with a leo
So the question remains:
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
max patch
02-14-2007, 23:08
So the question remains:
Nope. Hiked on the AT for 30 years.
cause here in amerika thar is much more to the law than dat???
u jist wait one day you'll need a lawyer....
how bout when dem terroist start putting ieds up thar prosteriors and then the lawman wants to look up yourn.
Good point there. I sure hope that never happens cuz that's the last place available to hide your stash when you board a plane these days.:eek:
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
I know a guy, they took his gun in the smokeys.
Does anyone think knowing the law will prevent a LEO from searching your pack if he wants to?No, but if he talks you into giving permission then your lawyer can't get you ff on illegal search.
Does anyone think a local judge is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over a local LEO?
They will if I have my local lawyer.
over 20 years on the trail and i've never heard of it. happens extremely rarely.
It's happened to me. Not on the trail, but returning from the trail from a Spring maintaining trip. My car was stopped and searched, allegedly to look for illegal fish. If the search was constitutional, it shouldn't have been. I didn't protest the search because I had been working hard for 10 hours or so, and I knew the cops could find something wrong if they wanted to. I drive old cars because they are cheap and because I suspect that using a car to the limits of its life is less environmentally polluting than sending it to a junk yard and buying a new one, with all the pollution that stems from refining metals, creating and molding plastic ....
I didn't have a fish hook with me, right alone a fish. But they spent 20 minutes probing every possible place for countrarband stuff, before letting me drive on.
I agree that being arrested on the trail is a pretty rare thing. In all my years of recreating in the woods, I only once was accosted by a guy in uniform. It happened one November during deer season. I had sat down in a sunny spot, hoping a deer might wander by, and dozed off.
Suddenly, I was shaken awake by a game warden, demanding my license.
"For sleeping?" I asked. Not a wise thing to say. But luckily I did have a hunting license and the warden wandered off.
Weary
The question is still unanswered. I seem to remember an overzealous nightime raid/search at the Fontana Hilton being discussed, but I could not find it by searching.
So the question remains:
I think someone got arrested at the last traildays but it was because they fired one up in front of a LEO. :rolleyes:
Two Speed
02-15-2007, 07:09
I think someone got arrested at the last traildays but it was because they fired one up in front of a LEO. :rolleyes:Which is remarkably stupid. Possibly I'm being harsh, but I can't help thinking that a charge of "dim wit" ought to be added by the time this individual gets to court.
I think marijuana ought to be legal, but firing up in front of a cop is just asking for it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-15-2007, 07:30
I have never had anything but civil coversations with the LEO's I've encountered on or near the trail.
Many, many years ago, I had one ask for ID and to look in my trunk (which was open as I was removing my pack) at a trailhead. He explained a car like mine had been used in a bank robbery about 20 miles away afterward. This was in the days before I quit drinking and there was about 1/2 bottle of whiskey in the trunk. He didn't mention it nor did he give me a field sobriety test or attempt in any way to determine if I was drinking.
If you do stupid stuff like fire up a doobie (or whatever y'all call them these days) in front of an officer, drive while impaired, make an a$$ of yourself in public while high, disregard the rights of others (loud music, conversation, trash the place, party all night), etc. you can't blame the LEO for doing what the citizens pay him or her to do - enforce the law, keep the peace and maintain order.
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 11:19
Yes. I've seen it occur twice. I'm also aware of at least three other "stops" by LEOs of thrus from other threads here.
Yes. It will not stop all of them, but it may give some of them pause to be asked, "Do you have a warrant?" Saying that tells an LEO that the speaker has at least basic knowledge of the law, and makes it very hard for the LEO to later say that it was a 'consent search.'
Yes. This is particularly true for federal judges (if a federal crime is charged, such as some drug offenses). Most state court judges will try to follow the law, too, particularly if the facts strongly favor the accused, making it hard for a judge to "decide wrong." It also makes it easier, in a serious offense, to win an appeal.
The Weasel
So the question remains:
The question is still unanswered. I seem to remember an overzealous nightime raid/search at the Fontana Hilton being discussed, but I could not find it by searching.
You may have missed the post above. The "aggressive stop" of a hiker in Erwin (shoplifting suspected) and the Fontana Hilton "raid" were two of those I was referring to. I've also seen LEOs in The Place in '00 looking for two hikers who were passing bad checks. A couple of other incidents have occured as well.
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 11:35
***If you do stupid stuff like fire up a doobie (or whatever y'all call them these days) in front of an officer, drive while impaired, make an a$$ of yourself in public while high, disregard the rights of others (loud music, conversation, trash the place, party all night), etc. you can't blame the LEO for doing what the citizens pay him or her to do - enforce the law, keep the peace and maintain order.
FD, bite my toes if you want, but you were lucky, and your post raises the real question - a really good one, too! - of "why do we have this laws that tell LEOs not to 'enforce the law and maintain order.' There are three reasons: To protect the innocent, and to recognize that there are higher values in our society than punishing the guilty, and, lastly, to make sure that if punishment is imposed, guilt is clear..
Our Republic was founded on a belief that those who have not violated laws should not be interfered with unless there is a strong reason to believe that they have done something wrong. Random or mass searches or arrests - they happen in many other places, and I've been in some of them and seen the effect on poeple - are essentially state terrorism. One of our greatest Supreme Court justices once summarized the Bill of Rights down to one phrase: "The right to be left alone." That holds LEOs back.
And that's the second part: Some who are guilty will benefit from that. But we value personal freedom over total order; we're not Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia or, for that matter, Castro's Cuba. We don't condone torture, despite the fact that, in skilled hands, it works. We are, as a people, willing to take the hits that result from honoring our values.
Lastly, the Bill of Rights - especially the 4th and 5th Amendments - make it hard for convictions to happen, but when they do, we have confidence in them. Violations of those things - where LEOs violated rights - are seen when death row inmates have their innocence established. That usually occurs when a false confession - a really false one - resulted. (I'm not talking about a 'mere' violation here, but where there is independent other proof that later established actual innocence).
The vast majority of LEOs do their work honorably and to the best of their ability. But the LAW is there to protect us, just as they are. We need both.
The Weasel
You may have missed the post above. The "aggressive stop" of a hiker in Erwin (shoplifting suspected) and the Fontana Hilton "raid" were two of those I was referring to. I've also seen LEOs in The Place in '00 looking for two hikers who were passing bad checks. A couple of other incidents have occured as well.
The WeaselI read all the posts. The question asked if anybody here had been arrested or searched on the AT. No one has volunteered to answer. Dirtnap was hassled in the city of Erwin after being suspected of shoplifting (so the police said). I tried to find the post about the Fontana Hilton, but I couldn't find it. I believe Baltimore Jack was there.
Buy it in .....We don't talk about such things. Bring it from home, or use common sense when seeking in unfamiliar territory, find a friend with good area knowledge, and don't attract unecessary attention to the process. ;)
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:18
Excellent post, TJ. Thats all you need to know. Unless, of course, you plan on breaking the law. Then I guess you oughta read Weazies thots on how to avoid being searched, etc.
That's pretty much the theme of this thread, stay on the right side and do the right thing. People who break the law pretty much are aware of what they're doing and should be ready to accept the consequences. I don't think ATers are as ignorant as some seem to think.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:23
Oh, yeah, sorry. I forgot the rule that says, "One thread per person." I kinda also forgot the rule that says, "Two Speed decides who gets to post, and where." When I remember those, I'll stop posting where you don't want me to.
Weasel, your response to Two Speed isn't consistant with your own posting behavior. You have, more than once in "your" threads, told other WhiteBlaze members they aren't welcome to post responses.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:29
Has anyone here been arrested or even searched on the AT?
Does anyone think knowing the law will prevent a LEO from searching your pack if he wants to?
Does anyone think a local judge is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over a local LEO?
1) Has anyone here? Yes.
2) If the LEO thinks he/she needs to search your pack, let him/her.
3) Don't ever assume all locals get along.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:30
happens extremely rarely.
Too rarely to worry much about.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:37
I agree that being arrested on the trail is a pretty rare thing. In all my years of recreating in the woods, I only once was accosted by a guy in uniform.
We were at the end of the KI road about 4AM, all flashlights and headlamps, when a State Trooper rolled up. He thought we might be jacking deer. Took him about two minutes to see we weren't, but he still hung around and talked trail for half an hour. Nice guy.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 16:41
The question asked if anybody here had been arrested or searched on the AT.
We'd probably only know if the people searched/arrested told their story.
And then you'd have to gauge how much of that story was spin to make themselves look 'better' :rolleyes:
We'd probably only know if the people searched/arrested told their story.
And then you'd have to gauge how much of that story was spin to make themselves look 'better' :rolleyes:You are probably right, TJ.
icemanat95
02-15-2007, 16:55
Traildays 1995 was heavily attended by Commonwealth of Virginia Bureau of Alcohol Control officers complete with nightvision cameras, etc. They arrested a lot of hikers who were imbibing too enthusiastically and too openly. I was very offended at the time, but I got over it. The town had every right to enforce the laws regarding alcohol consumption and hikers had gotten into the habit of flouting those laws far too brazenly.
But that doesn't mean that local LEO harrassment of hikers is common or that it even rises to the level of uncommon, let alone rare. I would say it is extremely rare UNLESS the individual hiker is being stupid...which is more common than actual law enforcement officers taking notice of it.
Hikers do have rights and should, as all other citizens and legal residents and visitors, understand what those rights are. Neither is it wrong to stand upon those rights if you feel law enforcement is taking undue notice of you. However, hiding behind those rights habitually when you are knowingly doing something illegal is pretty vile behavior.
One thing that really ticked me off recently was a "public service" program from the ACLU about individual rights as protection from law enforcement... Most of the cases involved people getting caught doing something illegal or getting away with doing something illegal by being obnoxious about their rights. There was some valid advice there, but there was also an impression that the individual's right to do whatever they wanted trumped law enforcement's duty to enforce the law. Most cases involved drug possession.
Be aware that probable cause has been interpreted rather broadly in the courts, especially if something serious is found. Don't provide probable cause by being an ass.
In my experience, folks who worry about being harrassed by police officers on the trail or otherwise know they are going to be up to something and have something to hide.
Littlest Hobo
02-15-2007, 17:00
People who break the law pretty much are aware of what they're doing and should be ready to accept the consequences.
According to Virginia law:
18.2-344. Fornication.
Any person, not being married, who voluntarily shall have
sexual intercourse with any other person, shall be guilty
of fornication, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor.
You listening, LW:D
Lone Wolf
02-15-2007, 17:01
According to Virginia law:
18.2-344. Fornication.
Any person, not being married, who voluntarily shall have
sexual intercourse with any other person, shall be guilty
of fornication, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor.
You listening, LW:D
i'm celibate. i'm the only catholic priest in damascus.
TN_Hiker
02-15-2007, 17:14
Happened to me once around 1985 in the Smokies during the late Summer. A buddy and I was blue blazing on a little used trail (don't recall the name) and we encounter 4 LEO's coming the opposite direction. Two had DEA t-shirts on, one was a Park Ranger, and not sure about the other guy, but assumed he was a LEO as well. They asked what we were doing.....duh backpacking. One of the DEA asked if we were sure we wasn't back in here harvesting our dope. We replied no and he in turn said "then you wouldn't mind if we search your backpacks then would you?". We said no, took our backpacks off and had emptied about 50% of our gear when the other DEA guy stated it is obvious they are backpacking. They thanked us for our cooperation and told us to enjoy the rest of our hike and off they went down the trail. The Park Ranger didn't even asked to see our permit. I'm guessing they knew a big patch was in them there hills some where and they had been keeping an eye on it looking for the grower.
The only laws that concern me on the trail are the laws of nature, and they can hang you if not carefull. LEO's, huh? what? Not where I go, LOL. I ain't up to no good anyhow.
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 17:42
That's pretty much the theme of this thread, stay on the right side and do the right thing. People who break the law pretty much are aware of what they're doing and should be ready to accept the consequences. I don't think ATers are as ignorant as some seem to think.
There's much more to the law than not breaking criminal laws. Insurance, medical issues, immigration and a lot more aren't "right side/wrong side." You can be very very respectful to everyone, and still end up in a world of pain (literaly, sometimes) if your pack is stolen, you don't go to the doctor for lack of insurance, and are from Canada without a visa on day 91. All the "respect" in the world isn't going to solve those problems, when a little knowledge in advance just might.
And knowing "the right side" isn't as easy as people might think. I didn't see a whole lot of harm about what I thought was hilarious: "National Nude Backpacker Day." What's the harm, I figured, other than people gagging at seeing my ol' body? Well, when I did my research, finding out that a minor conviction for 'indecent exposure' might mean that I'd have to register as a Sexual Offender, publicly, and never live near a church, school or park again was pretty sobering. I have real doubts that anyone - anyone - who stripped and strolled on the AT realized the consequences they faced if they were busted.
I've said it before, and will again: You're right that being courteous when confronted with a 'situation' is a wise thing, and if you ever read my final article, you'll see that prominently discussed. But that's not enough, either for the LEO confrontations or the other times when being able to say to an RN in the Emergency Room at Trailside Community Hospital, "I think I read once that you have to treat me for this infection even if I don't have insurance, don't you?" Or realizing, "Hey! If I buy some cheap renter's insurance and my pack gets destroyed, I can get the stuff replaced mostly."
I will agree with one thing you said, although I don't think you meant it this way: People have only themselves to blame if they break the law, or suffer a loss of some kind as a result of a legal problem, if they could have learned what to do or not to do in advance, and didn't. That's why 'the ostrich position' is sort of a risky one for someone who doesn't want to know things.
The Weasel
leeki pole
02-15-2007, 17:46
Seems to me most of the problems come when city folks come to the country. They don't know how to act, don't know how to talk (especially in the South) and bring their city attitude and try to force it on good small town folks. Doesn't work. Most LEO's in small towns just want to visit. It's what we do. You get all hot and bothered and they will too. Mind your manners and be friendly, and don't do anything stupid and you'll be just fine. 'Course I've only lived here my whole life so what do I know. If'n you bring your attitude with you, might as well have your lawyer on speed dial. :cool:
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 18:15
Leeki, you may be right in part. But I think it's also a "hikers are at the bottom on the food chain" thing, too: No risk of anyone causing a problem if they bust the chops of a thru a little, too. I'm not the poster child for 'attitude' on the trail (may be hard to believe, but it mellows me out), and was very polite in both Mars Hill and Cherokee when I got seriously hassled - Mars Hill took up 30 minutes of the Chief of Police himself just wanting to know my life history before he told me to 'get moving' - for standing off the road edge, and off the shoulder (on the sidewalk in Cherokee) at the edge of town with my thumb out.
It might be different for you; if you are from not-far-away, some police will cut you slack they know they don't have to provide for those from a long ways away. I think it's a little of both. Good attitude doesn't prevent a stop, and doesn't always shorten it, either. Being local doesn't always prevent a stop, either, but being local AND having good attidtude may make a stop turn into a meeting of friends.
The Weasel
Skidsteer
02-15-2007, 18:28
i'm celibate. i'm the only catholic priest in damascus.
Celibate Catholic priest? That's kinda rare these days.:cool:
I apologize to my Catholic brothers and sisters but you have to admit it was hard to pass that one up. ;)
The Weasel,
Sometimes I go into periods of silence for a few days. If I'm in silence walking down a street and a cop asks me a question do I have to speak? Can I show a piece of paper that says "I can't talk."
I'm just curious. Now don't get me wrong. I'm sure I'd break my silence in that situation I just wanted to know if I have to.
I know I have the right to remain silent if I'm being arrested but what if I'm not being arrested.
Thanks
Celibate Catholic priest? That's kinda rare these days.:cool:
I apologize to my Catholic brothers and sisters but you have to admit it was hard to pass that one up. ;)
I hear LW gives his alter boys trailnames like "tighty" and "slurpy".
Yes I know I'm going to hell for that one. But I guess I'm still bitter since my priest never touched me. I mean I was a good looking kid. I served as an alter boy for 7 years. That kind of disregard is hell on the self-esteem.:D
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 18:44
The Weasel,
Sometimes I go into periods of silence for a few days. If I'm in silence walking down a street and a cop asks me a question do I have to speak? Can I show a piece of paper that says "I can't talk."
I'm just curious. Now don't get me wrong. I'm sure I'd break my silence in that situation I just wanted to know if I have to.
I know I have the right to remain silent if I'm being arrested but what if I'm not being arrested.
Thanks
or maybe U just don't want to talkto the officer,,,U got ur mind on other stuff...U haven't broke any laws U just don't want to be talking to the officer,,,
like should U be forced to say something like "what a nice day officer thanks for wasting my time?" or "sorry officer I don't have time or energy to talkto U today,,,bother me later?"
or maybe U just don't want to talkto the officer,,,U got ur mind on other stuff...U haven't broke any laws U just don't want to be talking to the officer,,,
like should U be forced to say something like "what a nice day officer thanks for wasting my time?" or "sorry officer I don't have time or energy to talkto U today,,,bother me later?"
Yeah. That too.
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 18:54
Yeah. That too.
kinda leik back when I wuz in the trucking busyness,,,I had this "officer" at a weigh station call me in to look at my permits and log book (s) (of course I wuz showing him the "legal" one)
being on tight schedules to make $$$ I was "anxious" to get going, U know time is money and a trucker don't make $$$ if the wheels ain't turning...this jerk starts asking me why i'm so nervous,,I answered ain't nothing good can come of me talking ot U,,,,it ain't like you guys give rewards if everything is in order,,,this is costing me my time....and I got a living to make and bills to pay so I need to go.
I served as an alter boy for 7 years.
And in 7 years, you never learned how to spell "altar." ;)
Skidsteer
02-15-2007, 19:07
I served as an alter boy for 7 years.
And in 7 years, you never learned how to spell "altar." ;)
...must resist, must resist, must resist....
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 19:39
...must resist, must resist, must resist....
You can do it. Resist. Please. DO NOT SAY IT!!!!
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 19:42
The Weasel,
Sometimes I go into periods of silence for a few days. If I'm in silence walking down a street and a cop asks me a question do I have to speak? Can I show a piece of paper that says "I can't talk."
I'm just curious. Now don't get me wrong. I'm sure I'd break my silence in that situation I just wanted to know if I have to.
I know I have the right to remain silent if I'm being arrested but what if I'm not being arrested.
Bra-
I'm not being cute when I say that it depends on the question. "How are you?" Yeah, you can keep walking. "Who are you?" Probably you need to answer. "Are you on parole?" Absolutely yes. Take a look at my article, Section 3. That will tell you more. Let me know if you want more answer than is there.
The Weasel
Fannypack
02-15-2007, 20:02
Leeki, you may be right in part. But I think it's also a "hikers are at the bottom on the food chain" thing, too: No risk of anyone causing a problem if they bust the chops of a thru a little, too. I'm not the poster child for 'attitude' on the trail (may be hard to believe, but it mellows me out), and was very polite in both Mars Hill and Cherokee when I got seriously hassled - Mars Hill took up 30 minutes of the Chief of Police himself just wanting to know my life history before he told me to 'get moving' - for standing off the road edge, and off the shoulder (on the sidewalk in Cherokee) at the edge of town with my thumb out.
It might be different for you; if you are from not-far-away, some police will cut you slack they know they don't have to provide for those from a long ways away. I think it's a little of both. Good attitude doesn't prevent a stop, and doesn't always shorten it, either. Being local doesn't always prevent a stop, either, but being local AND having good attidtude may make a stop turn into a meeting of friends.
The Weasel
u were hiking the AT and u ended up in Mars Hill and Cherokee?
How & why?
Critterman
02-15-2007, 20:06
Bra-
I'm not being cute when I say that it depends on the question. "How are you?" Yeah, you can keep walking. "Who are you?" Probably you need to answer. "Are you on parole?" Absolutely yes. Take a look at my article, Section 3. That will tell you more. Let me know if you want more answer than is there.
The Weasel
How much does that big chip on your shoulder weigh? Probably alot more than your pack. I think it would make for a better hike to leave it at home.
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:10
Bra-
"Are you on parole?" Absolutely yes.
The Weasel
and your still allowed to practice law???:D :D it jist a smilely thangy
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:25
How much does that big chip on your shoulder weigh? Probably alot more than your pack. I think it would make for a better hike to leave it at home.
What an incredibly unnecesary post. There was no "chip" on my shoulder. I gave a real answer to a real question. Some questions can be ignored, some probably shouldn't be, and some may not be. I used legitimate examples to keep it short.
Lives are on sale at the Dollar Store this week. If you're really that easy to irk, I suggest you get one. They're in Aisle 3. You can dispose of the chip on your shoulder in the dumpster out back.
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:26
and your still allowed to practice law???:D :D it jist a smilely thangy
THAT one can be disregarded! :D :D
The Weasel
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 20:29
I will agree with one thing you said, although I don't think you meant it this way: People have only themselves to blame if they break the law, or suffer a loss of some kind as a result of a legal problem, if they could have learned what to do or not to do in advance, and didn't. That's why 'the ostrich position' is sort of a risky one for someone who doesn't want to know things.
Weasel, I agree with about 1/250th of what you said, but I don't think you meant it this way: "I'm a Califonia Lawyer who has hiked from Georgia to Virgina, and therefore I alone should be heard on LAW and the APPALACHIAN TRAIL of which I claim expert status thereof, so all must suffer viewing my selfpromotion lectures, and if they must consider the opinions of lesser beings they do so at their own PERIL! That's why the 'asshat position' suits me so well."
I don't think you meant it that way. But, I could be wrong.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 20:32
How much does that big chip on your shoulder weigh? Probably alot more than your pack. I think it would make for a better hike to leave it at home.
Similar comments have been directed his way in the past, Critterman.
Expect to be insulted.
TJ aka Teej
02-15-2007, 20:33
Lives are on sale at the Dollar Store this week. If you're really that easy to irk, I suggest you get one. They're in Aisle 3. You can dispose of the chip on your shoulder in the dumpster out back.
Too late...
:rolleyes:
Critterman
02-15-2007, 20:33
What an incredibly unnecesary post. There was no "chip" on my shoulder. I gave a real answer to a real question. Some questions can be ignored, some probably shouldn't be, and some may not be. I used legitimate examples to keep it short.
Lives are on sale at the Dollar Store this week. If you're really that easy to irk, I suggest you get one. They're in Aisle 3. You can dispose of the chip on your shoulder in the dumpster out back.
The Weasel
No chip on your shoulder? really.
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:33
special discount on items from aisle 3
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:34
Bra-
I'm not being cute when I say that it depends on the question. *** "Are you on parole?" Absolutely yes.***
The Weasel
For those who think I'm being too cute or have a chip when I use this example, there are currently about 4,500,000 Americans over 18 on probation or parole, which works out to about 2% of the adult population, and probably closer to 3% of the adult male population. That doesn't count the 2,000,000 in jails and prisons. Without exception, it is a violation of probation and parole to refuse to answer any question of a law enforcement officer, especially "Are you on parole?" Violators can be summarily arrested and returned to their prison with only a short, usually unsatisfactory hearing.
So yeah. If a police officer asks you, my advice is, answer the question. If you're on parole and don't, you'll be busted for sure. If you're not on parole and say nothing, you're going to get very intense interest from the police officer, who will insist on knowing lots and lots about you. And she will find out.
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:36
No chip on your shoulder? really.
Oh, now, yes. Before? Not even a little one. But I already got my life. Those who don't know when real advice is real advice still need to get to the Dollar Store. Steve knows which one has the discounts. (Steve knows a LOT of things that need to be known!)
The Weasel
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:37
Too late...
:rolleyes:
Teej -
Don't mean to be making you crazy with the compliments, but so far I don't think you've said anything here (or elsewhere) I don't both agree with and think well said.
As for Critterman, well, maybe he'll learn not to rassle with skunks. And why.
The Weasel
About how many t-hikers are on parole do you think?
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:39
I know NOTHING ..sgt shultz
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:41
About how many t-hikers are on parole do you think?
not sure about thru hikers but yes some backpackers are/have been on probation/parole
smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:44
So yeah. If a police officer asks you, my advice is, answer the question. If you're on parole and don't, you'll be busted for sure. If you're not on parole and say nothing, you're going to get very intense interest from the police officer, who will insist on knowing lots and lots about you. And she will find out.
The Weasel
good advice weasel...like that time the DOT officer asked me if I expected him to believe that I had drove a steady 55 mph all the way down I 81 as my logbook said....I answered him that of course I expected him to beleive it.
The Weasel
02-15-2007, 20:53
About how many t-hikers are on parole do you think?
Incliding probation, for DUI, or drug possession, or spousal abuse, or negligent jaywalking? Probably more than you think. If 2,000 are trying to thru in a given year, and others are section hiking, I'd say that it's more common than people might think.
I don't ask people that. You may, if you wish.
The Weasel
And in 7 years, you never learned how to spell "altar." ;)
Thay onlee taugwt me two neel and lite kandles not spel.:D
Critterman
02-15-2007, 21:37
Oh, now, yes. Before? Not even a little one. But I already got my life. Those who don't know when real advice is real advice still need to get to the Dollar Store. Steve knows which one has the discounts. (Steve knows a LOT of things that need to be known!)
The Weasel
While I am at the dollar store, I will pick you up some common sense which would solve all the problems you have so far expounded on here.
The Weasel
02-16-2007, 11:58
Yes, if I have common sense, it will solve everyone else's problems. That makes much sense. Yes. King of the World. Finally! YES!!! The final missing ingredient!!!!!
Critterman, you went off a bit half-cocked, and you know it. There was a question, and I don't see a complaint from the person who asked it. I gave, frankly, a very accurate answer, and one which, while hypothetical to make the point (police can ask certain questions which must be answered) applies to more people than you think in actuality, as well. So if you want to keep insulting me, well, go ahead. But so far you haven't provided any information to anyone other than trying to insult me. If you want to continue to debate this, I'll be glad to meet you when you come out the door of the Dollar Store. Don't forget to get a receipt for the common sense. For a dollar, you don't get much.
The Weasel
OntheRoad
02-16-2007, 15:48
Who makes these "laws" that we are supposed to abide by? Some money hungry, corrupt group of old men?
Screw the law. I refuse to let other people's ignorant outlooks and morals decide how I live MY life. With that said, I am going to bring a nice bag of fresh herbal relief for the trail.
Two Speed
02-16-2007, 17:16
Who makes these "laws" that we are supposed to abide by? Some money hungry, corrupt group of old men?
Screw the law. I refuse to let other people's ignorant outlooks and morals decide how I live MY life. With that said, I am going to bring a nice bag of fresh herbal relief for the trail.OTR, I hear what you're saying, but don't forget that some types "herbal relief" can have extremely nasty side effects, up to and including getting your body thrown right into jail. Some LEO's take a fairly relaxed attitude on that subject, but I wouldn't bet my freedom on it.