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gold bond
02-15-2007, 20:10
Our Scout Troop would like to provide hot meals for hikers along the AT in either Ga or NC for a weekend. What locations would help facilitate this? We would also need camping nearby.

smokymtnsteve
02-15-2007, 20:12
your local homeless shelter would be a good place to start.

skyhiker2
02-15-2007, 20:23
Yeah,,, not to sound like a smart-ass, but smokymtnsteve is right. I did it a few times and still to this day 20 years later I often refer ( in my mind) to what a humbling experiance it was.

In all sincerity what are they going to get by handing me a hot meal.

Appalachian Tater
02-15-2007, 21:16
Thru-hikers certainly appreciate food and especially cold drinks but they're right, there are much needier people in the world.

RAT
02-15-2007, 21:32
What's with all this Anti-Magic all of a sudden ? I have done trail magic in the forms of trail work, feeds, and have taken leftovers to hostels and food banks for over 15 yrs. and I have never seen a hiker yet that didnt appreciate it even the few that chose to walk on by. I have done ALOT of long distance hikes and have yet to hit on any signifigant trail magic in the form of hot meals, cold drinks, etc always had to Yogi ;) , so I would be glad to walk upon gold bond and his scouts providing such services but of course all the places in Ga and NC will be full of other so called trail angels doing their magic as well so good luck finding an empty place !!! I agree that efforts and monies can be better spent providing for the homeless and those in need (hikers really dont "need" it and have come to expect it) as long as it isnt the worthless drunks who could work but wont and bum their way thru life. There is always a food bank or the red cross or someone who has had a house burn down or something, the local homeless shelters usually are just drunks that wont quit their bad habits long enough to provide for themselves other than bumming on corners and grocery store parking lots pretending to be vets. But why all the animosity towards gold bond just cause they want to spread some trail magic ? Geez lighten up ya`ll and be polite.

RAT

Appalachian Tater
02-15-2007, 21:37
I don't see where you see animosity at all. Of course hikers appreciate it, but there are needier people. Everyone should meet some homeless people; they might not think they're all worthless drunks. Many of them have severe mental illness other than addiction disorders. A civilization can be judged on how it treats the most vulnerable members of society.

Jack Tarlin
02-15-2007, 21:41
Rat's right.

The guy asked for a few locations, not for a lecture on the morality of trail magic.

Off the top of my head, Gooch Gap in Georgia has plenty of tentspace.

In NC, Wayah Bald might work, easy to drive to and good camping nearby.

Jack Tarlin
02-15-2007, 21:46
But your logic in your last post, Tater, we're all thoughtless, selfish. horrible people because we opt to take six months off and spend three to six thousand dollars that we should perhaps be giving to the less fortunate.

Honestly, folks, the world of charitable works will not fall to pieces because these kids are out throwing a weekend cookout for thru-hikers. I think meeting the hikers and talking to them would be a great experience, especially for the scouts that are really into the woods. Every thru-hiker was a curious 13 year old kid once upon a time.

Honestly, folks, you could go a bit easier on this falla.....unless, of course, you're all planning to go down to your local homess shelter first thing in the morning and write 'em a check for 150 bucks.

Oh, you don't plan on doing that?

Didn't think so. :-?

RAT
02-15-2007, 21:54
Thanks Jack, that was my point, a homeless shelter is not a place to feed hot meals to thru hikers so not an appropriate answer esp. without any followup to it, just seemed rude to me, sorry if I misinturpreted.


Everyone should meet some homeless people; they might not think they're all worthless drunks. Many of them have severe mental illness other than addiction disorders. A civilization can be judged on how it treats the most vulnerable members of society.

The ones I see can stand at the end of an exit ramp for hours on end with a sign that says something that isnt true (they are in groups and take turns doing this) and in my opinion if they can endure that in all weather conditions and are of good enough mind to con folks of their money then they could certainly run a cash register or some other form of legitimate work, only they choose not to. Most homeless are that way because they choose to be. I am not saying ALL are like this by no means because I helped a family once that had become stranded during the holidays and really needed the help and had no choice but to resort to begging. In that case it would be most humble to help. And as for judging a civilization, you arent supposed to judge anyone anyway least you be judged yourself ;)

Deep Gap and Stechoa Gap are some others but will surely have angels there already :)

RAT

Bravo
02-15-2007, 21:59
Yeah it's not like hikers need it but the scouts are into outdoor stuff. Let them feed and talk to some hikers. Sure helping some less fortunate folks may be good for them but feeding thrus could be like meeting pro ball players.

If I was a scout I'd want to meet some thrus not feed the homeless.

Jack Tarlin
02-15-2007, 22:04
Another point....the folks that are giving this guy all sorts of guff..... Let's imagine THEY arrived at Gooch Gap or wherever after a long day's hike and found this guy and his boys ladling out soup and grilling cheesburgers, and had big fat coolers full of ice cold soda and juice.

I'm sure the first thing out of their mouths would be to berate this guy for his thoughtlessness, cruelty, and indifference to the poor.

Um, no. I don't really think so.

They'd be too busy scarfing down everything that wasn't nailed down, and we all know it.

Whatta load of sanctimonious BS we're hearing here today! :D

Lone Wolf
02-15-2007, 22:05
but feeding thrus could be like meeting pro ball players.

oh christ, give me a break:rolleyes: "thrus" are just getting started in Ga/NC. most won't make it. they're hardly worthy of any kind of stardom.

Lone Wolf
02-15-2007, 22:07
[QUOTE=Jack Tarlin;323377 Let's imagine THEY arrived at Gooch Gap

They'd be too busy scarfing down everything that wasn't nailed down, and we all know it.[/QUOTE]

pretty unlikely after just 2 short days of hiking

Bravo
02-15-2007, 22:09
oh christ, give me a break:rolleyes: "thrus" are just getting started in Ga/NC. most won't make it. they're hardly worthy of any kind of stardom.

I'm not saying they are. I don't know how old the scouts are but if I was 10-12 years old and into outdoor stuff like hiking then distance hikers would be folks I'd look up to. Even if they only walked 50-100 miles that's still seems like a lot to a little guy. It's probably 50-100 miles more than the scouts have walked. It's exciting and impressive to them. It's enjoyable to them. Just cause you're an old man killjoy doesn't mean the kids won't enjoy it.:D

By the way when are you gonna teach the scouts how to ford.:D

Jack Tarlin
02-15-2007, 22:19
No appetite, Wolf??

Geez, I remember one morning on USFS Road 42 about seven years back when you and I and a bunch of other folks cooked a big breakfast and fed around thirty-five folks who'd just woken up at Springer Mt. Shelter an hour or so before. They'd been on the Trail for all of one whole mile, and their appetites were just fine. :D

Blissful
02-15-2007, 22:34
In all sincerity what are they going to get by handing me a hot meal.

Give these teens some impetus to get off their backsides from their gaming, get out and hike by conversing and sharing in the hiking exerience from those of us who are doing it. (!) This isn't to feed our face. It's so we can impart our enthusiasm for hiking to young men so they will pick up a backpack and do it. That's a worthwhile endeavor, IMO. Hope they go for it and are out there when we come through!

Then they can also do a weekend at a homeless shelter for the full experience of helping others and allowing others to help them.

fishinfred
02-15-2007, 22:42
""Honestly, folks, the world of charitable works will not fall to pieces because these kids are out throwing a weekend cookout for thru-hikers. I think meeting the hikers and talking to them would be a great experience, especially for the scouts that are really into the woods. Every thru-hiker was a curious 13 year old kid once upon a time."" What Jack said.


Right on !
Just cause they want to meet and feed some Thru-Hikers doesn't mean they don't already do "Other Stuff", a GREAT experience for our youth. Its ALL GOOD! Wish my Troop would have done it back in the day.......

I only know of one really good spot in NC but its already taken :D
Does DEEP GAP have camping? Probably have company there too????
Hope the Scouts have a great time!
Fishinfred

rickb
02-15-2007, 22:50
The Scouts are allowed to do all sorts of things for fun. Fun is an important part of the whole experience.

That said, the question was where along the AT is a good place to provide Trail Magic.

Others are in a better position to comment, but I am surprised nobody has suggested that these kinds of things are better done away from the AT. Or at least not in the AT corridor proper.

Or not?

Gadog430
02-15-2007, 22:51
I know this time of year there are sometimes issues with the road to Deep Gap not being open.

As a person that has done Trail Magic and shuttling, you take those boys right on up there IMHO and let them cook.

Waht a sweet thing, and you never know which one or ones of them will find a lifetime of love for the trail and the outdoors.

What a wonderful gesture.
Dawg




""Honestly, folks, the world of charitable works will not fall to pieces because these kids are out throwing a weekend cookout for thru-hikers. I think meeting the hikers and talking to them would be a great experience, especially for the scouts that are really into the woods. Every thru-hiker was a curious 13 year old kid once upon a time."" What Jack said.


Right on !
Just cause they want to meet and feed some Thru-Hikers doesn't mean they don't already do "Other Stuff", a GREAT experience for our youth. Its ALL GOOD! Wish my Troop would have done it back in the day.......

I only know of one really good spot in NC but its already taken :D
Does DEEP GAP have camping? Probably have company there too????
Hope the Scouts have a great time!
Fishinfred

Glenn
02-16-2007, 09:28
Feeding the homeless would be good for highschool kids but not younger. I take my daughter to do trail magic. I'd rather have her visiting with a retired doctor or college student than the average homeless person. Hikers express great appreciation while others think they deserve the help.

Jack Tarlin
02-16-2007, 09:30
Rick raised an interesting point, but it's one that has been discussed before:

Most "On the Trail" Trail magic is actually held at or immediately adjacent to a Trailhead or parking area.

Someone setting up a grill in a parking lot isn't interfering with anyone's "wilderness experience." There are merely grilling in a parking lot,
period.

Hikers can re-act to this in one of two ways: They can gratefully take part, and say "thank you" to the folks offering the food.

Or they can re-act the same way any polite person does when offered something they don't want or aren't interested in: You smile at the person making the offer, you say "No, thank you!" and you move on.

It's not that big a deal, people.

Jim Adams
02-16-2007, 10:05
I don't see where you see animosity at all. Of course hikers appreciate it, but there are needier people. Everyone should meet some homeless people; they might not think they're all worthless drunks. Many of them have severe mental illness other than addiction disorders. A civilization can be judged on how it treats the most vulnerable members of society.

Trail Magic is just that---Trail Magic. These scouts are looking to do something in the OUTDOORS! Didn't we have a thread recently about how alot of scouts don't get to enjoy the outdoors or go about it incorrectly due to the leaders also not knowing? Let the Scouts have some fun and possibly also learn alittle more about the outdoors and BACKPACKING. Providing Trail Magic sounds like a perfect answer to alot of questions.:)

I, being a paramedic, probably deal with the homeless more than most on WB. If you want to help them--educate them! Usually they always find a meal from somebody. Most either need to be educated, even just slightly to improve their position in life OR they don't care and will continue to take anything that they can for free w/o working for it. Something to think about--Everyone who is homeless and remains that way CHOOSES TO LIVE THAT LIFE. Most homeless that I deal with, if given a free pack and sleeping bag and told that they can hike the GREAT Appalachian Trail for free on just the food in hiker boxes will choose not to do so because hiking is too much work. They will of course sell the backpack to buy alcohol and cigarettes and use the sleeping bag under a bridge. BTW, where did you say those hiker boxes with free food were?:-?

geek

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 10:09
scouts need to be hiking and doing projects not feeding hikers with packs full of food and pockets full of money. just my opinion.

rafe
02-16-2007, 10:12
scouts need to be hiking and doing projects not feeding hikers with packs full of food and pockets full of money. just my opinion.


LW, I'm not disagreeing here.... but haven't you done your share of trail magic? IIRC, you used to organize hiker feeds. Did you have a change of heart? Or is it just that the Boy scouts shouldn't be doing it? :-?

Jim Adams
02-16-2007, 10:13
How about Fontana in the lot above the Hilton?. Ample parking, wont hurt any wilderness areas, large groups of hikers, water, restrooms, picnic tables. Just a thought.
geek

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 10:17
LW, I'm not disagreeing here.... but haven't you done your share of trail magic? IIRC, you used to organize hiker feeds. Did you have a change of heart? Or is it just that the Boy scouts shouldn't be doing it? :-?

i've never organized a hiker feed but have helped out at a few and yes i've done"trail magic" on a small scale. change of heart? sorta. there's so much of it going on these days that i no longer do it. i feel the boy scouts should spend thier time and money hiking, doing projects and helping the needy. hikers are not needy.

Jack Tarlin
02-16-2007, 10:19
Except he said they wanted to stay overnight and camp, and there's nowhere to pitch there, at least no place big enough for a group. I'm pretty sure they don't want to stay at the shelter. But it's a good place for a "day" event.

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 10:19
How about Fontana in the lot above the Hilton?. Ample parking, wont hurt any wilderness areas, large groups of hikers, water, restrooms, picnic tables. Just a thought.
geek

that's where you guys wouldn't give us food cuz we weren't "thru-hikers":D

icemanat95
02-16-2007, 10:25
your local homeless shelter would be a good place to start.


I almost NEVER agree with Smoky Mountain Steve, but I'm 100% behind him right now. If your Boy Scout Troop wants to do a good deed for someone, better to do so for a group with a real need rather than a bunch of dilettantes on a long-term vacation.

Yes the AT can seem glamorous and all that, but thru-hikers themselves aren't really in need. If they were, they wouldn't be out hiking.

If you absolutely MUST do a thru-hiker feed, pick a town location that hikers pass through anyhow and choose a location where hikers are likely to pass so that you don't intrude on the backcountry experience. Post a notice or three at shelters prior to the road crossing the hikers would leave the trail from and maybe offer a shuttle to the location so hikers don't have to burn half their day getting into and out of town. Be conscious of sanitary requirements...a bunch of hikers eating means a bunch of hikers defecating shortly thereafter. Make sure facilities exist and that you have permission to use them.

DavidNH
02-16-2007, 12:09
As to where trail magic is best done.. perhaps a place where you can safely park near or on the trail, or a state park pavilion or with camping facilities.

Personally, I would kind of prefer the trail magic to not be advertized. That way it is a wonderful surprise if I happen upon it and not a great loss if I miss it. But if the trail magic IS advertized.. it would be especially nice if the givers were truly there in spirit as well as in fact during the dates they advertized they would be there.

What can be more discouraging than knowing of upcoming trail magic, rushing to make it, and upon getting there finding that all they want is to pack up and get out quick as they can? Now I don't expect some one to be feeding hikers over a several day period but if they advertize via a sign that they are doing that than I do kind of expect them to do just that. Just because its morning of the last day is not reason for the people to be no longer interested in giving to hikers.

I did find some amazing amounts of generosity of trail magic.. notably Georgia, a state park in maryland, and Falls Village, CT. I also saw some real disappointments..mostly further further north. I am not going to mention any names of places or people here regarding the dissapointments..I don't want to go on that tangent. Any trail magic is a gift, what really makes it special th ough is the spirit with which it is done!

DavidNH

Jack Tarlin
02-16-2007, 12:35
You've already gone on to that tangent, David.

Geez, I can't believe you're criticizing the "spiirt" of some of these people. So people come out for the whole weekend, i.e. they leave their homes early so they can set up most likely Friday afternoon, (in many cases giving up a vacation day or personal day from work), then feed hikers that day, all day Saturday, and then again early on Sunday, and then you're all pissed off because they're not there all day Sunday as well?

David, you should know that it can take several hours to break down a big feed and pack everything up. Often without much help as the hikers are generally gone once they're done eating. Also, did it occur to you that these folks in all likelihood have a long drive ahead of them, then have to spend an hour or two un-packing their cars, and then another two or three hours cleaning up all the stuff they used over the weekend. Oh, and THEN they have to go to work early the next day.

And you're all upset cuz they weren't there to cater to you "as advertised."

You're actually pissed that some folks only spent 49 consecutive hours feeding strangers and you showed up at the fiftieth hour.

Boo-hoo.

Sorry, David, but this is a bit over the top.

When it comes to receiving gifts and kindness from complete strangers, if one can't simply say "Thank you" it's best not to say anything at all.

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 12:41
The AT has turned into a friggin circus with all this "trail magic" *****t. Especially the planned ones where people hitch or hike huge miles just to get a burger. I'm glad I hiked back in the day when "trail magic" truly was magic.

Jack Tarlin
02-16-2007, 12:50
Wolf has a really good point.

These events mean a whole lot more when you literally stumble on to them without any expectations.

You might get a smaller turnout if you don't let people know about it ahead of time, but you probably get a happier group of people; the "surprise" factor is what really makes these things magical.

L Tee
02-16-2007, 12:52
lol L.Wolf, you kinda sound like a grandpa who is complaining about their kids getting a bus ride or a car ride to school when you had to hike 5 miles up a hill both ways...in the snow and blah blah.

More "trail magic" wouldnt seem to make the experience any less rugged. Considering most people are carrying about a thousand dollars worth of equipment on their backs.

Isnt the experience with other hikers supposed to be all apart of the trip? Getting together and enjoying a solid...free...cooked meal with like minded people. I dont know, it sounds like fun to me.

And as for the boyscouts let them go outdoors, and do trail magic as a part of a weekend hiking trip or something. So its helpful and they can earn a badge or a patch whatever it is they earn. Asking questions and gaining knowledge about the subject would be a good experience.

And im spent...

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 12:58
lol L.Wolf, you kinda sound like a grandpa who is complaining about their kids getting a bus ride or a car ride to school when you had to hike 5 miles up a hill both ways...in the snow and blah blah.

More "trail magic" wouldnt seem to make the experience any less rugged. Considering most people are carrying about a thousand dollars worth of equipment on their backs.

Isnt the experience with other hikers supposed to be all apart of the trip? Getting together and enjoying a solid...free...cooked meal with like minded people. I dont know, it sounds like fun to me.

And as for the boyscouts let them go outdoors, and do trail magic as a part of a weekend hiking trip or something. So its helpful and they can earn a badge or a patch whatever it is they earn. Asking questions and gaining knowledge about the subject would be a good experience.

And im spent...

it happens so much it's like feeding bears in a national park. they come to expect it and get pissed when there's no food. just about every road crossing in georgia, late march into april has some sort of "magic" to be had.

jewelweed
02-16-2007, 13:10
I think it is a great idea. My children and I do volunteer work all the time, not affiliated with any organization, religion or whatever. We just volunteer, officially and unofficially and doing things "just because" is just as important as doing for "in need."

And about the pro-ball reference, we met up with a group of thru-hikers during our SNP section hike. And to our children (and some degree us) they were a great inspiration. Even if they do "drop off" eventually, chances are that won't become known, they'll be left with the memory of "it's this week, where are they now?" Then come Sept. they'll picture them finishing and research places like this looking for evidence they even existed. Long lasting positive memories.

Blissful
02-16-2007, 13:15
I hope somebody does something different and has it the first two weeks of March in GA, hint hint. :) My hubby will be out then, he's a Scoutmaster and would love to encourage the boys to go hike and talk to the Scoutmaster (and eat a burger too, of course).

Blissful
02-16-2007, 13:23
I think it is a great idea. My children and I do volunteer work all the time, not affiliated with any organization, religion or whatever. We just volunteer, officially and unofficially and doing things "just because" is just as important as doing for "in need."

And about the pro-ball reference, we met up with a group of thru-hikers during our SNP section hike. And to our children (and some degree us) they were a great inspiration. Even if they do "drop off" eventually, chances are that won't become known, they'll be left with the memory of "it's this week, where are they now?" Then come Sept. they'll picture them finishing and research places like this looking for evidence they even existed. Long lasting positive memories.

Okay, I know this is off topic, but Jewelweed brings up some good stuff. My neighbor recently called me, she wants to give me postcards so I can mail them to her eight-year-old son and let him know where we are (and he plans to share them with his 2nd grade class too). They plan to take out a map of the US and follow where we go. Another elementary class wants to learn songs from the different states when we pass through them.

So this isn't all about us hikers taking selfish vacation walks in the woods for some aimless reason. It's also about inspiring others and sharing with them what we did and what we learned. And even these kids are learning history and geography because of it!

Now back to the food. I'm starving.

DavidNH
02-16-2007, 13:38
WOW jack..you are testy these days.

It's not like I don't show appreciation and I have always said thank you. To everyone who offered anything.



I was simply trying to saythat some trail magic providers were more welcoming than others and that this made the experience more pleasant.

But I don't want to belabor this any further. Belive what you wish. I don't think I was so over the top.

David

Lone Wolf
02-16-2007, 13:39
WOW jack..you are testy these days.

It's not like I don't show appreciation and I have always said thank you. To everyone who offered anything.



I was simply trying to saythat some trail magic providers were more welcoming than others and that this made the experience more pleasant.

But I don't want to belabor this any further. Belive what you wish. I don't think I was so over the top.

David

i understood you perfectly and i'm sure most others did also. don't let jack get to you. he always testy.

Sly
02-16-2007, 13:44
Okay, I know this is off topic, but Jewelweed brings up some good stuff. My neighbor recently called me, she wants to give me postcards so I can mail them to her eight-year-old son and let him know where we are (and he plans to share them with his 2nd grade class too). They plan to take out a map of the US and follow where we go.

To continue the hijack, something similar from the CDT (messages in bold are from the kids)... Pretty neat.

Hey All,

While I was hiking the CDT there was an article written on me by
American profile. A group of fifth-grade special education students in
Ola, Arkansas, read the article and followed my trail journal a bit and
as part of their class they wrote stories on the hike. They sent me
their stories and I had to share them with you as they brought a smile
to my face.

So here they are from Sherrilly Forrest's class (they are much better in
their own handwriting):

By Allen
"Trekking the Triple Crown"

The story is about a guy who hikes the trail and his name is Richard
Larson and his nickname is "Skittles." The tiple trails he started was
in Washington, Montana, and Maine. Then in 2004 he walked 2,650 miles.
In June during a few days of his 3,100 mile trek while he hiked along
the Continental Divide Trail he had to cross a precarious Snow bridge
over a turbulent stream in Glacier National Park in Montana.

If I had free time and had vacation I probaly would have went and hiked.
But my question is how he get there and did he see big animals? Like
bears, snakes, like king cobras, and deer? And how did he get home? But
I'm sure you had fun hiking. I like the story. It should have been run.

By Chris

Richard Larson travaled the Pacific Crest Trail, Continental Divide
Trail and Appalachian Trail. He ate noodles, Lipton sups, tortilla
wraps, Carnation instant drinks, power bars, crackers and chess and his
favorite snack is Skittles.

My opinion is he was smart to walk his own pace on the trail.

By Clay

There is this man named Larson and he hiked three big long tails. One is
continental divde trail. And it goes from Montana to new Mexico. He
stopped at hotels and got his mail and food. It was a five month trek.
The Pacific Crest Trail. It's close to the ocean. He had to put up with
Masquetos and big black flys. The Appalachian trail was the first trail
he had went on. He looked off mountains and saw beutiful things. I
think it was a good idea because he got to see beautiful, beautiful
things. And got his self rutin a story.

By Phillip

Richard Larson was a person who hiked the Triple Crown. Richard Larson
hiked about 20 miles each day. He hiked the 2,175 mile Appalachian Trail
in 2004, the 2,650 mile Pacific Coast Trail in 2005. In 2006 Richard
Larson hiked the 3,100 mile Continental Divide Trail. Richard Larson
loved to hike and see the splendor of hiking in America. He fough off
mosquitoes and black flies, enduring blistered feet, spring rainstorms,
and sweltering summer heat. He got his food from an airplane that
delivered it to him.

He went through a lot of painful stuff. It has to be fun traveling. You
would lose a lot of weight whenever you hike.


Hope you enjoy the stories as much as I did,

Skittles

Webs
02-16-2007, 14:07
About 4 days into the trail are the "Cheese Factory" tentsites; that would probably be enough for a small-ish troop, with a great water source nearby. I think it's just south of Tray Gap in GA. Somewhere around here was my first experience w/trail magic! :banana A nice couple dayhiking gave us a ride into Hiawasee, b/c we were running out of food and pathetic enough to try and buy their fig newtons from them! :eek: Funny now, desperate then!

Paul Bunyan
02-16-2007, 14:11
Hey Gold Bond, great thinking with the boy scouts. I think this would be a great experience for them. As a fellow scout, i belive this really ties in with the scout outh, law, and motto. For those who dont know it, here it is:

Law: A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpfull, friendly, courteous, kind, obediant , cheerfull, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverant.

Oath: On my honor i will do my best, to do my duty to God and my country, to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

Motto: Do a Good Turn daily.

Each part that is highlited above shoqw what the scouts can do through this trail magick. Especially if it hikers, they can learn about hiking, the AT, and tons of stuff about gear. Personally, i dont think you could get the same experience with a homeless shelter.

Paul Bunyan
02-16-2007, 14:14
Oh, one more thing.

The guy wants to help some hikers. Let him!!!!!!

emerald
02-16-2007, 15:42
Now you've done it, you've got the big man (http://www.americanfolklore.net/folktales/me5.html) all riled up! You best not be messin' with Paul Bunyan.:rolleyes: :eek:

Paul Bunyan
02-16-2007, 16:16
Thanks SG, just doing my best for a fellow Boy Scout. Hey, i just got my Paul Bunyan Woodsman award, i am finally certified Paul Bunyan.

emerald
02-16-2007, 16:50
Congratulations, that there'd be way :cool:! Certification may help convince non-believers, but, as for me, I always knew you were a legend before your own time.;)

max patch
02-16-2007, 17:04
Oh, one more thing.

The guy wants to help some hikers. Let him!!!!!!


Turning the Trail into a series of fast food restaurants is not "helping the hikers" in the long run. Quite the opposite.

L Tee
02-16-2007, 18:45
I understand what you were saying though L.Wolf, but if you want to tough it out and skip through one of those trail magic breakfasts, lunches or dinners then one would be able too. It isnt as if everyone hiking is forced to eat free food, its just so hard to pass up :)

Jack Tarlin
02-16-2007, 18:55
A lot of the people who are the most outspoken against Trail magic seem to have hiked a long time ago, before the phenomena of Trail magic really took off.

One can't help but detect a not-so-faint odor of sour grapes here........does anyone REALLY believe that if any of these guys has encountered a big-ass hiker party going on, in say, the park by Bear Mountain, or in the hiker pavillion at Port Clinton......does anyone here truly believe that these guys would have wrinkled their little noses, pouted, and come out with something like "I don't appprove of what you're doing, I think what you're doing is harmful, and I CERTAINLY won't endorse this sort of activity by eating any of your food!!"

Does anyone truly think the Trail magic critics would have acted like this?

Cuz I sure don't.

Sems to me, the people who carp the loudest about Trail Magic are the folks who never got much during their hikes.

Begrudging someone getting the gift of a burger and a coke in 2007 because you didn't have anyone do this for you back in 1985 is pretty silly.

People truly concerned about this allegedly burning issue really need to find another one.

rafe
02-16-2007, 19:03
Dunno about hiker feeds, but I've never passed up a soda in a cooler or in a stream, by the trail on a hot summer day. :banana

Jim Adams
02-16-2007, 19:13
When I hiked in 1990, I had alot of trail magic given to me. It was there then and no, I've never turned it down.
geek

moxie
02-16-2007, 19:13
[quote=Jim Adams;323512]Trail Magic is just that---Trail Magic. I being a paramedic, probably deal with the homeless more than most on WB. If you want to help them--educate them! Usually they always find a meal from somebody. Most either need to be educated, even just slightly to improve their position in life OR they don't care and will continue to take anything that they can for free w/o working for it. Something to think about--Everyone who is homeless and remains that way CHOOSES TO LIVE THAT LIFE. Most homeless that I deal with, if given a free pack and sleeping bag and told that they can hike the GREAT Appalachian Trail for free on just the food in hiker boxes will choose not to do so because hiking is too much work. They will of course sell the backpack to buy alcohol and cigarettes and use the sleeping bag under a bridge. BTW, where did you say those hiker boxes with free food were?:-?


Jim, you should have met "Screamer" in 2000. New York City, homeless, never heard of the Applachian Trail. Was walking on the road in Georgia and the local cops told him if he walked on the trail they wouldn't arrest him. He started north with a plastic pail with his belongings, no pack, no sleeping bag, just a blue tarp, no money and no food. He survived by "dumpster diving and selling cans n he picked up in trail towns. He wouldn't accept charity from other hikers. Cooked in a tin can over an open fire. Bob Peoples told him he needed a bucket so Screamer traded it for an old back pack. I found him boots in a hiker box at The Church Of The Mountain. He had walked 30 miles barefoot after the PA rocks did in his sneakers. He worked his butt off at hostels to pay for his stay there. Rusty threw him out because he was different. I last saw him in New York but heard he made it as far as Andover Maine before cold weather forced him off the trail. He would accept trail magic if everyone else took it but never asked for or took a handout. This homeless man didn't sell his backpack. Hiking with him was a great experience and I cherish the many miles I hiked with him.

Jester2000
02-16-2007, 19:22
Some of my favorite stories from 2000 involve Screamer. Last I saw of him he was laid up at the Barn with a busted ankle.

The strangest thing about Screamer involved the fact that as we all moved north, he got more like us while we got more like him. . .

Jim Adams
02-16-2007, 19:23
Moxie,
That is great!!!! I do wish that I had met him and hiked with him. I'll bet the experience may have turned his life around and would love to know what happened to him. He made a choice. That was the point of my rant. He made a choice to better himself even if it was just to stay out of jail. Most in his situation would have just caught a ride to the next town.

A few weeks ago there was a tread about the greatest AT thru hiker. I didn't respond then but now I know who would have recieved MY vote. I can't think of a better way to improve ones life or lifestyle than to hike the trail. If you are out there Screamer, I applaud you!

geek

RAT
02-16-2007, 20:15
The AT has turned into a friggin circus with all this "trail magic" *****t. Especially the planned ones where people hitch or hike huge miles just to get a burger. I'm glad I hiked back in the day when "trail magic" truly was magic.



Wolf has a really good point.

These events mean a whole lot more when you literally stumble on to them without any expectations.

You might get a smaller turnout if you don't let people know about it ahead of time, but you probably get a happier group of people; the "surprise" factor is what really makes these things magical.


it happens so much it's like feeding bears in a national park. they come to expect it and get pissed when there's no food. just about every road crossing in georgia, late march into april has some sort of "magic" to be had.

Begrudging someone getting the gift of a burger and a coke in 2007 because you didn't have anyone do this for you back in 1985 is pretty silly.

All good reasons why I stopped doing the Brown Gap Hikers Feast. It just isnt like it used to be back in the day. Dont get me wrong I am all for trail magic and will defend anyone doing it it's just that it has changed alot since back when we were some of the first ones doing it.

I certainly think it is a positve experience for scouts, along with other things of course, but the oens I se ehiking have idiots for leaders and do nothing but allow the kids to tear up shelter areas and all they write in the registers is how hiking sucks and how hard the hills were etc etc, so obviously poor leadership and turns kids against the outdoors and hiking. Trail magic on the other hand would be very easy and good for them and would surely get them interested in the right things. They can help down at the homeless shelter next time ;) . Screamer was truly a unique individual. Have wondered about him often.

Nice stories Sly, thanks for posting those.


RAT

sourwood
02-16-2007, 20:35
Loved the stories Sly! Pretty good trick, getting a plane to deliver your meals!

Julie

smokymtnsteve
02-17-2007, 22:52
Please don't feed the bears!!

freefall
02-18-2007, 00:35
Anything that gets kids out from in front of the computer and TV and out doing something has my vote. And they could do worse than meeting a bunch of potential thru-hikers.
I was grateful for every instance of trail magic I encountered last year. And in hindsight, it was more about meeting the people than about the food,drink, etc.. Along the way, while not coming to expect trail magic, it did always seem to be when I needed something like a calorie influx to make the push. But I enjoyed the company more. Even more than interacting with the locals in trail towns, talking with others that shared a common thread, the Trail, was always a treat.
As for a location on the southern end of the trail, I'd have to 2nd the Cheese Factory site. I camped there last year. Lots of flat for the ground dwellers, good trees for the hangers, nice views, a great water source and a FS road nearby for access.

Paul Bunyan
02-18-2007, 23:19
Turning the Trail into a series of fast food restaurants is not "helping the hikers" in the long run. Quite the opposite.

If you call handing out a little food to some hikers restuarants, i like to know what do you call a buffet?

I know this sounds stupid, but maybe these people are handing out food to help people? I mean if you dont want the food, dont take it!

I do agree with one thing that has been mentioned, that people shouldnt expect it. I think that a surprise gift of food or drink is awsome, but it is a little bit upsetting when you see people just expecting the stuff, IMHO.

Johnny Swank
02-19-2007, 08:58
I do agree with one thing that has been mentioned, that people shouldnt expect it. I think that a surprise gift of food or drink is awsome, but it is a little bit upsetting when you see people just expecting the stuff, IMHO.

I think that's most of the problem. Folks are expecting to see a hiker feed, cooler, of some other handout at every damn road crossing now. I heard more than one NOBO complaining about the lack of trail magic in Maine when we started our SOBO hike. That's silly.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2007, 09:37
I know this sounds stupid, but maybe these people are handing out food to help people? I mean if you dont want the food, dont take it!



how's it "helping" people? hikers have a pack full of food and lots of cash especially in the south. the people handing out food are doing it to feel good

gold bond
02-19-2007, 11:05
WOW!! I am really taken by surprise here. I have been hiking for years as well have been a scoutmaster for apx 11 years. Our troop has apx 60 boys and is sponsered by a local church in our community. We have completed hundreds hours of community service for our local Sister Care Shelter, local Childrens Home as well as Habitat for Humanity and many other community based orginazations.Two weeks ago our unit gathered over 1,100 LBS of food for our local LIC's shelter.When our guy's aren't camping there doing community service of some kind. I am so very proud to have boy's that do not mind giving up their weekends for community service or camping.My son just got his Eagle Scout Award and completed over 2oo hours of service doing a book drive and building book shelves as well as doing a tranquility garden for our local Sister Care Shelter. All of our Scouts participated in some way. We have had just this year alone seven Eagle Scouts. All together 21 since our troops starting. Our boys have done things in support of our troops over seas as well. Our boys live by the outdoor code as well as practice LNT. We are in the woods at least one weekend a month and have completed many hours of trail maint. all over. We as leaders try to have the boys camping at least 35 days a year to include a one week summer camp. We just got back this weekend from camping at Hot Springs and doing a hike up Big Bald. Lots of snow as well as lots of fun! We use the outdoors as a teaching tool so the boys can learn to move from dependence to independence. We have never cancelled a campout for any reason! The boys have learned how to work thru all kinds of difficult situations and have learned what it means to not just give up cause it's "not going as easy" as they think it should or because its "to hard"
I have been hiking for years. I love to hike and have come to the conclusion that a bad day hiking is better that a good day at work anytime. I am very surprised at the attitudes of some of these hikers. There is no way in this world that I would expose my boys to the attitudes of what I have seen on this thread. What I was putting together was not a "charitable" act as much as it was as a "helpful" or "friendly" act. If you do not know of what I'm speaking of see the Scout Law.
We will continue to hike as well as hike sections of the AT but will not be doing any trail magic this year. Sorry if I hurt any ones feelings or made anyone feel "less" than important, that was not my intentions. I wasn't implying that anyone that hikes the AT is homeless. Certianly you guys aren't as I know what it costs to hike! You all are right though...I would rather have our boys look up to these overpaid, drugged out pro sports guys than looking up to people you love and respect the outdoors!

Jim Adams
02-19-2007, 11:17
Gold Bond,
VERY GOOD RESPONSE!
You and your boys should be very proud of all of the acomplishments that you have had. It sounds as though you are leading these boys in the right direction as opposed to most of the Scouting that I've been exposed to.
Go back and read your response-"a bad day of hiking is better than a good day at work anytime". Keep the boys doing these wonderful things outside.
I do not expect Trail Magic but I have ALWAYS appreciated it, and never turned it down.
Don't let a few people with their heads stuck in the sand discourage your good intentions.
Hope to see you out there!
geek

jesse
02-19-2007, 11:24
Dunno about hiker feeds, but I've never passed up a soda in a cooler or in a stream, by the trail on a hot summer day

I am neutral as to what people do at road crossings or in towns, I do get pissed off when inconsiderate sons of bi***es litter streams with cans and bottles.

Jim Adams
02-19-2007, 11:30
I am neutral as to what people do at road crossings or in towns, I do get pissed off when inconsiderate sons of bi***es litter streams with cans and bottles.

Do you mean the ones that thru hikers drink and then carry out of the woods or the ones that the locals dispose of in that creek?:-?
People providing Trail Magic are usually intelligent enough to only use cans.
Most bottles found in the woods are carried out by hikers--I know I've carried my share of others trash.
geek

jesse
02-19-2007, 11:43
Jim Adams
I mean any can/bottle, full or empty, in any stream anytime. Whether it is left there by a local or a do gooder trail angel.

When I see trash on the trail, I have no idea who put it there.


People providing Trail Magic are usually intelligent enough to only use cans
How do you know that. Besides cans in streams are just as bad as bottles, paper, foil, etc. Shame on anyone who does such a thing ever!!

Lone Wolf
02-19-2007, 12:23
hikers don't need any help. they're out there by choice. they're on vacation.

bfitz
02-19-2007, 12:23
It doesn't really matter why or who benefits, it'd probably be pretty neat for the scouts, and fun for everyone.

Jim Adams
02-19-2007, 12:26
There should be NO trash anywhere on the trail or anywhere else for that matter. If the cans are full, they are not trash, they are a resource for hikers.
geek

Lone Wolf
02-19-2007, 12:39
bottles or cans of soda/beer should NEVER be left in a stream or spring or in an unattended cooler for that matter.

gold bond
02-19-2007, 13:16
We have had thru hikers come and speak to our boys in the past. J. R. "Model-T" Tate has spoken to our OA group several times. The boys as well as most of us adults cannot get enough! He does this out of the goodness of his heart and the boys are in awe of his accomplishments.
Most of our leaders are hikers. We have logged a many mile and want the boys to learn of this. There are five of us that have been working on the AT for about 2 years now. Mostly weekends and holidays. Section by section, rock by rock, we will finish it. I have met some of the most pleasurable people on the AT. We have a local outfitter that helps us out without any strings attached. We have drilled the LNT ethics and the outdoor code into these boys. These boys love the outdoors. Some of their best stories come from the worst campouts! To just put a boy thru the shakedown lectures, put a pack on his back and put him out there sometimes is a negative. Hiking is not always as "fun" as we would like it to be. By meeting hikers, hearing their "stories" I hope to intrest the boys in hiking. Maybe one day thru these experiences we might nurture a game warden, park ranger, or even god help us a thru hiker! We have boys with all kinds of disabilities as well as....well just plain lazy! We live in a world of instant gradification and anything else is unacceptable! Take this website for instance...everyone gets their "opinion" on in a flash! Good, bad or otherwise it can be read, thought on and countered in a key stroke.
These boys as well as us leaders love to hike, camp and fellowship as often as we can. We love the outdoors! We have picked up enough trash in NC, SC and Georgia to fill a small landfill. We have delivered turkey dinners to shut ins every thanksgiving for a while now and we have helped the followers of today be leaders of tommorrow. We have done all of this thru the use of the outdoors.Stupid me...by asking for a place to be a little helpfull and hoping to teach the boys the joy of hiking I have created a mess! I have never met any of you that I know of and being a hiker i consider you all my brothers and sisters but we have all just taken this thing to a whole different level. I do not think the boys are quite ready for all this.Guess we had better stick to the classroom for awhile!
I did a fifty miler over thanksgiving several years ago and was invited to a thanksgiving dinner by a local. I did not eat as I knew I had a long day ahead of me but always thought that that was the coolest thing! When the group that I hike with started the AT and learned of trail magic I thought back to that Thanksgiving and thought immediatly that this would be a cool thing for the boys. I later learned that this was referred to as "trail Magic" Thats the only reason I started this thread, to hopefully find a place to set up, cook ma few meals and do a "good turn". Oh well...maybe we will just watch AWOL on the AT or maybe soft paths...again! Oh wait...I'm sure there are other trails!

Lone Wolf
02-19-2007, 13:22
spend the weekend with the boys doing trail maintenance with a local maintaining club in Ga or NC

jesse
02-19-2007, 13:56
If the cans are full, they are not trash, they are a resource for hikers.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. It violates LNT, as well as laws about littering on public land. Besides hikers are responsible for bringing their own resourses to the trail, and taking everything off the trail!

Jim you are just wrong on this one, and I wish hikers, like yourself, would quit encouraging the leaving of unattended "magic" on the trail!

rafe
02-19-2007, 14:10
Sorry, I have to disagree with you. It violates LNT, as well as laws about littering on public land. Besides hikers are responsible for bringing their own resourses to the trail, and taking everything off the trail!

Jim you are just wrong on this one, and I wish hikers, like yourself, would quit encouraging the leaving of unattended "magic" on the trail!


So if trail angels leave gallon jugs of water by the trailheads in PA in summer, is that wrong?

bfitz
02-19-2007, 14:10
Sorry, I have to disagree with you. It violates LNT...
LNT is not a law. Every act is contextual. Not saying it's a great idea, but it's not always a terrible one.

Webs
02-19-2007, 14:11
Thanks for your responses, goldbond; they renew my appreciation for the boy scout organization. I wish girls scouts were a little more like it! :) Perhaps then I would have kept on with it. Anyway, I'm so glad that (some of) my generation is still developing w/a sense of awareness of needy people around us and the benefits of selfless service to others. Thanks for all you do w/that!

bfitz
02-19-2007, 14:12
spend the weekend with the boys doing trail maintenance with a local maintaining club in Ga or NC

Might want to let them fall in love with the fun part before you put em to work doing the hard stuff. Not that it's a bad idea in general, either.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2007, 14:12
So if trail angels leave gallon jugs of water by the trailheads in PA in summer, is that wrong?

yeah it is.

eventidecu
02-19-2007, 14:19
Some people can not get out and hike due to physical limits or disability's but still LOVE the trail and the beauty and memories that they make and have of it. Why do you hike it? For the memories and the beauty of it? Trail Angles participate in whatever way they can because THEY want to. Don't complain about Trail Magic or those who are participating in it, either leaving or taking. I doubt anyone on this thread (even you Lone Wolf) has NEVER taken a coke (beer) from a cooler / spring or a hitch ride to back to your car or town. If you don't want it don't take it, it's not for you. Commend those who are experiencing the trail in maybe the only way they can or simply participating in the trail the way THEY want to. HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE! DO YOUR OWN THING! And keep on doin it.

Marta
02-19-2007, 14:24
There should be NO trash anywhere on the trail or anywhere else for that matter.

Thanks for opening my eyes! In my ignorance, I thought those cold cans of soda on a hot day were an incredible treat. (And, yeah, there was a bag for putting the empties in so the Angel could come pick them up, so there would be no LASTING trace of their presence.) Now I know that the mere sight of them ruined my whole AT hike.

I vow to be more sensitive in the future. From now on I will not live and let live; I will constantly be vigilant and try to make everyone do what I think they should do, instead of leaving it up to their obviously faulty judgement.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Jim Adams
02-19-2007, 14:27
The Scouts just wanted to do something fun in the woods that would benefit hikers and they could see the gratification immediately to help themselves alittle.
I looked back through this complete thread and re-read everything and assessed all of the negative comments.
It is amazing that with all of the thousands of miles hiked by the people with all of the negative attitudes that somewhere along the way they still don't have a clue!
geek

jesse
02-19-2007, 14:45
T-too

So if trail angels leave gallon jugs of water by the trailheads in PA in summer, is that wrong?
I have never hiked the AT in PA in the summer. I understand it can get dry. I am not saying leaving water at a trailhead, or even a shelter is right, I would not make an issue of it. In either case the jug should be tied down so the empty can not blow away.
But I did not jump into this thread because of water jugs being left at trailheads in PA in the summer. I jumped in over your post in #51

I've never passed up a soda in a cooler or in a stream, by the trail on a hot summer day
Leaving anything in a stream anytime is wrong, and I do not think the hiking community should encourage it.

jesse
02-19-2007, 14:53
bfitz,

LNT is not a law
never said it was. LNT is a set of principles designed to help keep the outdoors from looking like Newark. There are laws in every jurisdiction againts littering on public land. Leaving cans, full or empty, violate both LNT as well as the law.

Jim Adams
02-19-2007, 15:05
bfitz,

never said it was. LNT is a set of principles designed to help keep the outdoors from looking like Newark. There are laws in every jurisdiction againts littering on public land. Leaving cans, full or empty, violate both LNT as well as the law.

Just wondering?:-?
Do you stop and drink one? If so you are a hypocrit.
Do you leave them there? If you do, then according to your thinking, you are leaving litter.
Do you gather them up and haul them away? Then you are stealing.

I agree, those few cans sitting in a stream are not part of the natural environment but its not like someone backed a triaxle in and dumped a thousand cans in the woods.
Litter makes me frown and bitch everytime I see it.:mad:
A cold soda or beer in a stream makes me smile everytime!:D
It all depends on your perception of "litter".
geek

rafe
02-19-2007, 15:09
Leaving anything in a stream anytime is wrong, and I do not think the hiking community should encourage it.

I've neither encouraged nor discouraged it. I certainly don't regard it as "littering" and where I've encountered it, I've enjoyed it. On a few occasions there was a register nearby, and I took a moment to express my thanks.

jesse
02-19-2007, 15:24
jim,

Just wondering?:-?
Do you stop and drink one? If so you are a hypocrit.
Do you leave them there? If you do, then according to your thinking, you are leaving litter.
Do you gather them up and haul them away? Then you are stealing.

guess i'm a thief.


I agree, those few cans sitting in a stream are not part of the natural environment but its not like someone backed a triaxle in and dumped a thousand cans in the woods.

so, anything less than a thousand cans is OK?

jesse
02-19-2007, 15:28
guess i'm a thief.

... and I will gladly admit it in front of a Judge, if the person who admits to leaving them cares to press charges.

The Weasel
02-19-2007, 15:31
It depends a little on how the Scouts themselves view it. "Good turns" are a major focus of Scouting, but not limited to just "the needy." In a sense, Scouting has as one of its major themes "Do random acts of kindness." That's what the Scout Slogan really says, when it refers to "Do a good turn daily." As Scouters, we try to teach young men that this means, "Do something kind for others, rather than for yourself." So 'trail magic' is very much a part of Scouting, and, in light of the zillions of hours of helping the less fortunate that Scouts provide anyhow, the lecture about 'helping the needy' isn't necessary.

As for a location, well, Fontana Dam would just be kind of perfect to stagger into and find a bunch of good Scout food!

The Weasel

Bravo
02-19-2007, 16:13
Once again I say feed the hikers. This has nothing to do with the hikers. It's about the kids. They have their whole lives to feed the homeless and do trail maintenance. Let them have some fun.

People will be asking them to volunteer their time and money for the rest of their lives. I did a lot of working and volunteering as a kid and now I wish I would have listened to my parents when they told me to go have fun. I thought it was all about work when I was a kid. Now I'm burnt so I'm going for a walk this spring.

Get the kids outside and having fun!!!

eventidecu
02-19-2007, 16:35
For those who say and think Thru Hikers "expect" trail magic and are waiting for "hand outs" I offer this.
In late spring of 2006 while section hiking into the NOC I ran into three Thru Hikers, "High Tech", "postal" and "hot sauce" at the NOC. They wanted to run to town ( I think it was Robbinsville where we ended up) to a real groc store and for some beer. I was boarder line of having enough gas to make it home (to SC at the time) and had very little money with me but told them I would take them. They offered to kick in a couple bucks for gas and away we went. In town one of them handed me a $20 for gas, told the others "not to worry about, I'll get this one". We argued about the amount not being necessary as I didn't need $20 worth of gas. He refused to change the amount and went in the store. Then another tossed a $20 on the seat and soon we were arguing about I wasn't trying to "make money" for taking them to the store. It got to the point I was refusing to pick it up and threatening to toss it out the window if he didn't pick it back up, which he didn't. He refused to take it back and went in the store. I then put it all in the gas tank as to use it as it was intended, gas. While doing so I looked at the third and basically implied "don't you dare" because he was reaching for his money too. We went on to the groc store and went back to the NOC and spent a zero there. I vowed to myself that I would give the $40 back as trail magic this year. When I got home and unpacked a day or two later I found another $20 buried deep in my pack which apparently the third Thru Hiker stuffed in there. Yes three "Thru hikers" not only "paid" for services they OVER PAID for which I intend to double and give back on the trail this year in the form of "trail magic". So in this case Thru Hikers were the ones giving the "Trail Magic". So it can go both ways, even with the "entitlement minded Thru Hikers" of today. Hikers are good people period, helping one another taking when they need, helping when they can or WANT TOO. Got to love it.

Jack Tarlin
02-19-2007, 16:45
What a great story!

And I hope some of this goes 'round and 'round and comes back to you some day when you're hiking!

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 17:08
Got Dutch Ovens? Hold a Scout vs adult chili cookoff.

Talk trash about your secret recipe. Build it up. Tell the boys to bring their best. Hikers can be the judges.

Whoever's chili pot empties first wins First Prize.

First Prize is making another pot of chili. Or whatever.

gold bond
02-19-2007, 17:20
GOD I LOVE HIKERS!!! After starting from the very first reply to this point I'm not sure we could find our way back with a GPS!! i think we've just about covered it all...so here goes for anyone just joining us;
1. Goldbond awoke a sleeping giant by asking about feeding thru hikers some delicious dutch oven lasagna, beef stew and rice, or some southwest chichen stew with cornbread. Maybe some apple cobbler for dessert.
2. The homeless are that way because they want to be.
3. LNT is not the law...but a way of life.
4. Hikers are not poor, homeless or hungry...They are there because they want to be. We are all overworked, underpaid and love computers.
5. Do not and I mean DO NOT put anything in any stream, lake ,mud puddle or any natrual body of water for any reason.
6. Let every hiker hike their own hike. The outdoors is differant for everyone and we are all there for differant reasons. Even though some of us seem to be there for either running from the law or breaking it!
7. Shadesofgrey is a wonderfull person and thanks for your input.
8. Scouting has it's good points and it's not so good points...we will keep working on it. We will celebrate our 100 year anniversery soon...hopefully we will get it right before 200!
9. We all love to share our opinions...that's what makes this country so great...oooo Rah!

Thanks for all the great responses...I will take them all to heart and hope to see you all on the trail one day...may God bless each and every one of you...may your paths be soft and the wind always at your back....good hiking and God bless!

eventidecu
02-19-2007, 17:32
A chili cookoff? LOL Great idea but Please post that location and date cuz I sure don't want to be anywhere near the area shelter locations or camp sights! SOUNDS like the oportunity for some "new" trail names going on here. Judge "P" and "U"

emerald
02-19-2007, 17:32
Got Dutch Ovens? Hold a Scout vs adult chili cookoff.

Talk trash about your secret recipe. Build it up. Tell the boys to bring their best. Hikers can be the judges.

Such a cookoff might lead to other contests, perhaps later that evening at the next shelter.:D


Eventidecu wins the quick-reply contest, he was faster!:o As for any other contests, someone else will need to be the judge.


7. Shades of Gray is a wonderful person and thanks for your input.

Thank you for your kind words. Glad to help when I can.

Ronin
02-19-2007, 17:35
You have a fully equipped shelter, water, and one hour to create an amazing meal! The judges will decide who wins! And now, for the secret ingredient...!

ed bell
02-19-2007, 17:37
You have a fully equipped shelter, water, and one hour to create an amazing meal! The judges will decide who wins! And now, for the secret ingredient...!SPAM!;) (I like spam, eggs, sausage and spam):D

The Weasel
02-19-2007, 17:39
SPAM!;) (I like spam, eggs, sausage and spam):D
Well, each to his own. I prefer spam, eggs, spam, and spam.

The Weasel

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 17:42
1. Goldbond awoke a sleeping giant by asking about feeding thru hikers some delicious dutch oven lasagna, beef stew and rice, or some southwest chichen stew with cornbread. Maybe some apple cobbler for dessert.Need more recipes? (http://www.troop39.net/pdf/venture39-dutchoven.pdf)

gold bond
02-19-2007, 17:45
would that be two alarm or four alarm chili:eek: The privy's can only handle soooo much and the ground is just to hard to dig in this time of year! Better stick to the Carolina beef stew or the Chicken bog. Maybe a good Mountain man breakfast...Tater's, eggs, onions, peppers, onion pork sausage, and lots of cheese! Fresh blueberry cobbler, or some hot apple pie cobbler! Southwest Chicken stew is always good with some fresh cilantro...or a spicy spanish rice....gotta go i'm a gettin' hungry!

gold bond
02-19-2007, 17:50
Thanks DWM! Got a Dutch Oven cooking contest coming up in Geoegia soon. The Georgia / Carolina council is putting it on. Maybe I'll see you there.
If I could get educated on this contaption I would be glad to send you some recipes from this part of the country.

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 19:17
My Venturing Crew ... excuse me ... I meant the Venturing Crew that I had the honor of being the Advisor for ... won the Iron Chef competition at the Winterfest in Gatlinburg one year. We ... I meant they ... were given a long list of ingredients to bring - things like strawberry jam, pizza dough, fruit cocktail, cheese, a jar of peanuts, a pound of hamburger, tomato sauce, pancake mix, all kinds of stuff. Then, when everyone had their ovens warmed up, several items were declared off limits and the Crews had one hour to prepare a meal from the remaining ingredients. While the rest prepared one-pot meals our Crew prepared a four course dinner, from appetizer to desert. It was a lot of fun.

So the one question nobody has asked, and it's the most important question of all: What does your SPL want to do on that campout?

smokymtnsteve
02-19-2007, 19:28
GOD I LOVE HIKERS!!!
2. The homeless are that way because they want to be.

!


and if U really believe and teach that

"the homeless are that way because they want to be"

then you really DO need to spend some time with your scouts at a homeless shelter to meet some of them, listen to thier story and really learn why some folks are homeless..you would learn something. I know I did!

great you've been doing trail work for 2 years,thanks, I did my 1st trail work back in the 70's

and btw I'm an EAGLE scout class of 73, bronze and silver palm, life guard BSA,

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 19:40
and if U really believe and teach that

"the homeless are that way because they want to be"Please pardon Steve. He's never quite gotten the hang of that whole 'Reading for Comprehension' thing.

We love'im anyways.

Steve: Bless your heart. Read it again within the context of the previous posts.

smokymtnsteve
02-19-2007, 19:45
Please pardon Steve. He's never quite gotten the hang of that whole 'Reading for Comprehension' thing.

We love'im anyways.

Steve: Read it again within the context of the previous posts. Slowly. Move your lips if you have to.

I did read it....imo anyone that believes the homeless are that way because they want to be really doesn't knowwhat they are talking about,

so pardon me

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 19:59
I did read it....imo anyone that believes the homeless are that way because they want to be really doesn't knowwhat they are talking about,so pardon meSince you read so carefully then you know very well that he doesn't believe that at all. You are already fully aware that he was simply summarizing the sentiments expressed by previous posters, such as on posts numbers 5, 9, 20, and 22 for example, which you chose not to quote. I may have made the mistake of thinking you were directing your remarks at him rather than the deserving posters. If so then the error is all mine.

Pardon granted.

smokymtnsteve
02-19-2007, 20:23
or if I have been mistaken,

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 20:57
or if I have been mistaken,Don't worry about it. There's a first time for everything, right?

gold bond
02-19-2007, 22:44
DWM, you have given me some great idea's to take to our SPL so he can present them to the PLC at the next PLC mtg. The Iron chef senario is awsome, I think the guys would get some great patrol team building exercising as far as how to work together in a difficult situation. Could probably expand that to not only food but as well as fire building, wilderness survival situations...etc
You are a great resource. Hope I can return the favor sometime. Do you trade patches...if so let me know how I can get you a couple of flaps and CSP's...it would be an honor!

Dances with Mice
02-19-2007, 23:13
"Cast Iron Chef", I should have said. It was a lot of fun, and the Crews all came up with different creations. Then after the competition everyone shared their dishes. We had two secret weapons - multiple DO's that we stacked, using the coals on the lid of one oven to heat the bottom of another. Our other secret weapon was aluminum casserole baking pans sized such that two could fit inside each DO so we could cook two dishes at once - like a Frito pie in one and a cake in the other. In other words, we used our DOs as ovens rather than big crockpots.

The casserole pans also allow you to prepare and freeze something ahead of time, like lasagna for example, then just cook & eat in camp. Makes cleanup a lot easier too.

My son's now 22 and we're out of the Scout game.

Appalachian Tater
02-20-2007, 00:01
But your logic in your last post, Tater, we're all thoughtless, selfish. horrible people because we opt to take six months off and spend three to six thousand dollars that we should perhaps be giving to the less fortunate.

Actually, that's not what I said or implied: I said hikers appreciate food and cold drinks but there are needier people. I never said not to do trail magic. Hikers, as a rule, are not truly needy. If you want to help someone, help someone who needs help. There's nothing wrong with feeding hikers, but it's not helping the needy. I never turned down a cold drink or anything to eat. Never ever.

For me, living on the trail was cheaper, and less consumptive of non-renewable resources, than my usual life. If I hiked all the time, I could really give MORE to charitable causes, especially if I sold my apartment.

And if anyone really thinks homeless people are bums who choose to be homeless, come on over to NYC and I'll introduce you to some of the homeless people slumped over in a seat on the subway, if you're not scared to get too close to them because of their schizophrenic mumbling, urine- and feces-stained clothing, pubic and head lice, or the lovely scent of pseudomonas infection and gangrenous toes.

SteveJ
02-20-2007, 01:25
gold bond, as a scouter, and committee chairman of a troop which has had 55 eagle scouts in the last 10 years, I really appreciated this post! you go, buddy!


GOD I LOVE HIKERS!!! After starting from the very first reply to this point I'm not sure we could find our way back with a GPS!! i think we've just about covered it all...so here goes for anyone just joining us;
1. Goldbond awoke a sleeping giant by asking about feeding thru hikers some delicious dutch oven lasagna, beef stew and rice, or some southwest chichen stew with cornbread. Maybe some apple cobbler for dessert.
2. The homeless are that way because they want to be.
3. LNT is not the law...but a way of life.
4. Hikers are not poor, homeless or hungry...They are there because they want to be. We are all overworked, underpaid and love computers.
5. Do not and I mean DO NOT put anything in any stream, lake ,mud puddle or any natrual body of water for any reason.
6. Let every hiker hike their own hike. The outdoors is differant for everyone and we are all there for differant reasons. Even though some of us seem to be there for either running from the law or breaking it!
7. Shadesofgrey is a wonderfull person and thanks for your input.
8. Scouting has it's good points and it's not so good points...we will keep working on it. We will celebrate our 100 year anniversery soon...hopefully we will get it right before 200!
9. We all love to share our opinions...that's what makes this country so great...oooo Rah!

Thanks for all the great responses...I will take them all to heart and hope to see you all on the trail one day...may God bless each and every one of you...may your paths be soft and the wind always at your back....good hiking and God bless!

Gray Blazer
02-20-2007, 08:54
I could of guessed a TM post could grow to 6 pages the 4 days I've been gone. Gold Bond, none of these naysayers at this site will be at your feed (highly unlikely, anyway) and most of the thru-hikers will have never heard of WhiteBlaze. Make sure you have a sign-in book. Another "job" for some of your boys would be to have post cards and pens they could give to the Hikers and mail them home for the hikers. I don't know if anybody mentioned Burningtown Gap. Everybody's right about the feeds happening at the road crossings. It would be cool, I think, to hike in a little ways from a road and set up camp. You could hike from Standing Indian to Deep Gap. There's also a camp where I've seen troops camp just north of Deep Gap. There's a blue blaze trail up from Unicoi Gap that seems to me to have room for camping. There's Rocky Bald South of Tellico. Siler's Bald south of Wayah Gap has rooms for tents.I've got a few more ideas. PM me if you want more.

bfitz
02-20-2007, 09:21
bfitz,

never said it was. LNT is a set of principles designed to help keep the outdoors from looking like Newark. There are laws in every jurisdiction againts littering on public land. Leaving cans, full or empty, violate both LNT as well as the law."The law is an ass..." but also, it's not littering since it will be picked up. I think leaving a shelter and fire ring in the middle of the woods is far more of a violation. Not that I won't use one if I come accross it....If you were to just say something like "usually not a good idea..." rather than "NEVER" I would accept it....:D

rafe
02-20-2007, 09:37
The "cans in coolers" and "cans in streams" trail magic that I've seen has almost always been at or near trailheads, where there's no wilderness anyway. I agree that a styrofoam cooler to hold the cans is probably not a good idea (I've seen that once or twice.) There was very little of this when I started hiking the AT (mid 1970s) and even into the early 1990s. Most of what I've seen has been in the last five years or so. There are so many intrusions on the "wilderness" feeling of the AT -- it seems odd to single out this particular activity for criticism. Especially when it's done with care and maintained regularly -- eg. the "Trail Angel Bear Box" near Pochuck shelter in NJ. (A shelter where the official water supply is a spigot on the side of an abandoned house down the mountain...)

jesse
02-20-2007, 11:22
bfita and T-too

The law is an ass
Hikers and outdoorsmen shouldn't need the law. If they practice LNT they will fulfill all the requirments of the law. Respect the outdoors, respect other people.

If you were to just say something like "usually not a good idea..." rather than "NEVER" I would accept it..
I have never seen a stream on public land that I thought an abandoned aluminum can belonged.

where there's no wilderness...
There are so many intrusions on the "wilderness" feeling of the AT -- it seems odd to single out this particular activity for criticism
LNT extends far beyond wilderness areas. It should be practiced on all public lands.
Sorry I helped hijack this thread. I am done.

The Weasel
02-20-2007, 13:50
Gold:

As a SM who has done some things like this in other places, a few more suggestions:

1) When you pick your location, make sure it is one that can handle a fairly large amount of traffic without degrading the trailside. You'll also need an area that is clear enough that you can have open fires (if you're using dutch ovens), and adequate fire protection, including water and fire tools. That's why a semi-developed area (USFS picnic area, Fontana Hilton area, so forth makes sense).

2) Get permission/permits from the owner of the area (USFS, whatever) in advance, or at least coordinate with them. That's part of Scout protocol, as I'm sure you know. Some Trail Angels forget this, though.

3) Try to avoid shelters. Your spilled food (inevitable) will draw animals from the Rockies. Also, a lot of people view shelters as a haven, and may be irked if Scouts appear to have "taken it over" even just for an afternoon.

4) Have your Scouts in perfect "Class B" uniform if possible. It will send a very positive message about Scouting to a lot of people anyhow; the uniform will add to it.

5) Have at least one dish be vegetarian. A large number of thrus will be grateful for that.

6) Don't expect swarms of people, and prepare your Scouts for that. You may get dozens; you may get 2 or 3. Depending on where you decide to set up, it might make sense for someone to check out how many people there are heading towards you a couple of days in advance.

7) Plan for the time of day. In my experience, getting a team of Scouts with all of your supplies to go 1 mile in from a road crossing for something like this will take you about 2 hours. Dutch oven cooking is going to be another 2 hours. So if you're arriving at the road at 8 a.m. (which may be pretty optimistic), and serving at noon. (If you've camped there the night before, all of this starts when breakfast is finished, which is more like 9 a.m., so the timing will be about the same). If you're only 3-4 miles up-trail from a popular shelter, the biggest wave of hikers will pass you before you're ready to serve. Since most hikers do about 2 mph, and are on the trail by 8 am, if you want to serve around noon or 1 pm, try to be located about 10 miles up-trail.

Good luck. Sounds like a hugely great idea.

The Weasel
SM Emeritus, T101

bfitz
02-20-2007, 14:36
Good luck. Sounds like a hugely great idea.
....Seconded.