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View Full Version : Fifty mile loop in the Whites?



Mags
02-21-2007, 00:38
A little background...

My buddy Tim and I are friends who go back to our Catholic elementary school days. Besides sharing a loathing of navy blue pants/light blue shirts that exists to this day, we also have shared burgers, beers and wings. Deep friendship I tell ya!

He introduced me to backpacking and hiked the last week of the AT and the PCT with me.

He was going to hike the last week of the CDT with me, but a (very adorable) one year old daughter and studying for his RN final exams changed those plans. :(

So, we talked when I was visiting in RI after my CDT trek. We need to do a backpacking trip in Sept 2007! About 10-12 miles day at most. Lots of good food, and of course much BSing that goes on between two old friends on a backpacking trip.

(Yeah..I know it sounds like OLD JOY (http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/oldjoy)..but Tim and I are not SNAGs (http://www.christinelavin.com/00031704snag.html)...we are too cranky and sarcastic to be SNAGs. ;) )


We were going to do the 100 Mile wilderness in Maine, but logistics-wise it would not work. Eight hr drive from RI, and Tim's wife would have a hard time finding someone to watch a 2 yr old for that long. If Tim wants to stay happily married, we had to find a new plan.

So, we decided to go back to our old stomping ground of the Whites.

I left my White Mtn guidebook with Tim when I moved out here, and I only vaguely recall all the connecting trails, loops, etc. in the Whites. Sad..I know.

My question (hey..I had to tell a story first!), can anyone suggest a ~50 mile loop in the Whites?

I have a vague idea of starting at the Lincoln Trail head to get into the Pemmigwasett, see the Bond Cliffs, maybe hook on the AT and make my way back via the Mt. Flume area. I quite honestly forget the mileage and all the connecting trails, though.

By default (Tim tends to be busy with the little one now running around!) and inclination, I am the trip planner so I just may purchase a White Mountains guide book. Thought I'd pick the brain of everyone here first, though.

I know it is a bit away...but we are both anal planner types who actually enjoy this kind of thing. :D

Thanks!

rafe
02-21-2007, 01:16
My question (hey..I had to tell a story first!), can anyone suggest a ~50 mile loop in the Whites?


Without going into great detail... start a few miles east Woodstock and pick your way east along the Passaconaway range. Then head north across the Kanc via Oliverian Brook and Sawyer River Trails. That'll wind northward and hook up with the AT at Ethan Pond Trail. Take the AT up & over (counter-clockwise) at least to Mt. Liberty. Finish by going over to the Kinsman side, then Mt. Wolf and Gordon Pond trail back to Woodstock. I haven't measured it out... it might be well over 50 miles for all I know. To shorten it, there are other trails that will lead out of the Passaconaway range and into the Pemi range. Or return (from Mt. Liberty) via Osseo Trail and Lincoln Woods Trail. Get the AMC White Mountains Guide and maps.. (order from AMC website.)

PS: I don't know how much time you've got allocated for hiking, and I don't know what kind of shape your buddy is in... but it might be wise to shoot for a low MPD figure in this neck of the woods... something like 10-12 miles per day tops, if you're looking to have a pleasant time of it. For sure, a thru-hiker in top form can do more, but why push it?

Sly
02-21-2007, 01:28
PS: I don't know how much time you've got allocated for hiking, and I don't know what kind of shape your buddy is in... but it might be wise to shoot for a low MPD figure in this neck of the woods... something like 10-12 miles per day tops, if you're looking to have a pleasant time of it. For sure, a thru-hiker in top form can do more, but why push it?

10-12 miles per day? Hmmm... sounds familiar. Oh yeah, it's in post #1. ;)

rafe
02-21-2007, 01:34
10-12 miles per day? Hmmm... sounds familiar. Oh yeah, it's in post #1. ;)

Oops, missed that bit. Great minds think alike. :D

Mags
02-21-2007, 01:45
Thanks for the info. If anything, it jogged my memory (Ah! The Osseo trail! I remember that!).

And yes, great minds do think alike. :)

We could both crank out 15-20MPD without getting too exhausted, but I think 10-12MPD is about right for the trip we have in mind.

I probably will buy the guidebook. The one my buddy has (that I gave him) is ~15 yrs old. Time for a new one!

Just getting info at this point. He takes his boards this weekend..thought I'd e-mail him something to look forward to!

rafe
02-21-2007, 02:06
I probably will buy the guidebook. The one my buddy has (that I gave him) is ~15 yrs old. Time for a new one!

Another thought/concern... I'm getting the idea that some of the blue blazes in this area that I've known from my yout' have fallen into disuse -- even though they still appear on the AMC maps. You might want to confirm your route at a forum like viewsfromthetop.com (http://viewsfromthetop.com/index-vftt.html) and make sure that the trails you've decided on are still maintained and passable. I had to backtrack out of a planned weekend loop last summer when the trail just petered out...

Mags
02-21-2007, 11:14
Another thought/concern... I'm getting the idea that some of the blue blazes in this area that I've known from my yout' have fallen into disuse -



Yeah..we both know that too well! I think it was called the "ISolation Trail" and it was blowdown city! Egads! We were exhausted after that day!

What I'll do is make a loop idea and post the itenerary on Views from the Top. I used to use that site all the time pre-1999.

Feel so old school now! :)

Thanks for all the tips!

The Old Fhart
02-21-2007, 11:36
Mags, another option to consider that might give you a little more flexibility would be to use the AMC shuttle service (http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodging-shuttle.cfm). The link has the shuttle schedule and it might allow you to leave your car at a more secure location and get in more hiking miles without looping back. -TOF

the_iceman
02-21-2007, 15:11
10 - 12 will be a good day in most areas of the Whites. Sept will have sone cold nights. Camping may still be under control of the AMC so bring your wallet. After a certain date they stop charging of tenting I think.

rafe
02-21-2007, 15:28
10 - 12 will be a good day in most areas of the Whites. Sept will have sone cold nights. Camping may still be under control of the AMC so bring your wallet. After a certain date they stop charging of tenting I think.

If you stay off the AT the AMC won't bother you at all. They're only interested in their precious AT corridor. That's where the money goes.

The Old Fhart
02-21-2007, 16:13
Terrapin_too-"If you stay off the AT the AMC won't bother you at all. They're only interested in their precious AT corridor." Actually the AMC maintains over 1400 miles of trails and any A.T. hiker has been on many miles of AMC maintained trails and probably never noticed.

A few examples:
-the AMC Delaware Valley Chapter maintains a 15 mile section of the AT between Wind Gap and Little Gap, the Leroy Smith Shelter and two side trails to the AT.
-the AMC NY-NoJ Chapter club of the AMC has ~60 volunteers maintaining ~120 miles of trail under the direction of the Trail Conference.
- AMC Connecticut Chapter: In November of 1979, the CT Chapter of the AMC assumed responsibility for maintaining and managing all of the Appalachian Trail in Connecticut as well as maintaining the "feeder trails" or blue-blazed trails which are connected to the Trail.
-AMC-Berkshire’s Appalachian Trail Committee manages the maintenance, management, and protection of the almost 90 miles of Appalachian Trail within Massachusetts.

In all the AMC maintains about 350 miles of the A.T.. It is interesting that the section most thru hikers complain about (above tree line in the Whites) is actually maintained by the USFS and not the AMC.

Mags
02-21-2007, 16:19
Mags, another option to consider that might give you a little more flexibility would be to use the AMC shuttle service (http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodging-shuttle.cfm). The link has the shuttle schedule and it might allow you to leave your car at a more secure location and get in more hiking miles without looping back. -TOF

Yeah..we thought about that too. We will be starting and finishing on a weekday, so it should be easy enough to get a shuttle service. Thanks for the reminder!

About the weather. My buddy and I used to do the Whites all the time. It is where I cut my backpacking teeth. (And boy..did it hurt! :)).

IIRC, I think my three-season Colorado gear for September should do the trick for NH. Colorado is higher, but further south. NH is lower, but further north.

Will be great to be in my old stomping grounds again!

As always, thanks to EVERYONE for the tips. Think I'll order the guide tonight. I mean it....I'm one of those weenies who love to plan. :)

Mags
02-21-2007, 16:22
y There's a good hike in the pemigewasset (sp?) wilderness that is about 60 miles, hits about 5 4kfooters, lots of free shelters..but it is not a loop..you could easily string a bunch of trails and stuff together to make a nice loop or semi-loop.


Yeah...that's the one I vaguley recall. Takes in the Bond Cliffs IIRC?

I used to do A LOT of backpacking in the Whites. Quite frankly, though, I forget all the connecting trails and specifics. And my old guide books are 2000 miles away. :)

Between the shuttle OF mentioned and this "loop", think the ole noggin might come up with somethig. As you mentioned, gotta get AMC guide though.

I really am stoked to do some East coast backpacking. Has been far, far, far too long!

Mags
02-21-2007, 16:51
i got this map- it is waterproof, printed on a tyveky/plastic material, and shows the entire wmnf, and all of the side trails..and has the milage for every section of trail.

.


Pefect for planning! I just need an overview; I susepct the AMC guide back in Rhody will be fine for more details. (I don't think there were THAT many relos since I last backpacked there in 1999. :D) In any case, thanks for the heads up. That is EXACTLY what I need at this stage.

The AMC guide used to come with a slew of detailed maps. I assume it still does?

rafe
02-21-2007, 18:04
Actually the AMC maintains over 1400 miles of trails and any A.T. hiker has been on many miles of AMC maintained trails and probably never noticed.

My main point wasn't to bash the AMC (though I do that a lot.) The point was that the blue blazed trails in the Whites won't have ridge runners and won't have AMC caretakers at the shelters/campsites/tent platforms. In general, if one has any interest in stealth camping in the Whites -- it's relatively easy to do once you're off the AT and off the highest ridges.

Newbies and infrequent hikers are naturally attracted to the hot spots -- the Presidential ridge and Franconia ridge -- and that's where the AMC and USFS are most active and most visible, in terms of managed campsites and enforcement.

the_iceman
02-21-2007, 18:29
If you stay off the AT the AMC won't bother you at all. They're only interested in their precious AT corridor. That's where the money goes.

I know they used to charge a fee at Guyot Shelter and tent platforms and that is off the AT. I do not mind paying in some cases becasue it is a good cause. The problem is you go into the woods with $20 emergency money expecting a wilderness experience and you pay KOA prices and run out of money.

Mags
02-21-2007, 20:21
yes, mags, the amc guide does come with a few pocket maps, but none are a map of the entire wmnf like the one i linked..there are tons of other maps out there of the wmnf- like one from the national geographic series, and other private map companies all have their own version of a wmnf map..


Too bad. The previous edition had an extensive collection of maps. Even had the southern part of NH (Monadnock for example).



the white mountains ain't a wilderness experience at all-


As mentioned, this is where I used to backpack all the time. :) Yep..i know the crowds in the Whites. The Whites were about the closest "real" mountains from Rhode Island. The Berkshires were 2.5 hrs away. The trailhead for Mt. Libery was three hours away and offered more options. Guess where I went more? :) (Of course the Presies and other areas were further out)

Figure if we go mid-week, post-Labor day and try not to use the AT too much, it should be OK. I am not expecting Montana, but hopefully it won't be like Franconia Ridge on a July weekend!

I went once a weekday many moons ago. I see all these Quebecois speaking French. I mean A LOT! Huh? Turned out it was the Queen's Birthday and was THEIR three day weekend!

Mr. Clean
02-22-2007, 18:41
Not too many options for a loop of that size come to mind, but I'd definitely second the Pemi trip. Start at Franconia Notch and either do the loop to the Bonds and back to the Notch, or continue on and blue blaze over Willey, Field ,and Tom towards Crawford Notch. Then you could even do some of the southern Presidentials, looping back to Crawford Notch.