View Full Version : Glucosamine
Earl Grey
02-22-2007, 13:52
This supposedly helps cartilage rebuilding and helps the joints. This in conjunction with a knee brace might make walking downhill bearable. Does anyone use this?
Footslogger
02-22-2007, 13:55
Yes ...have been taking Glucosamine now for well over 3 years. Was beginning to develop minor pain/grinding after long walks/hikes. Notice a big difference in my knees. Less grinding and smoother through the full range of motion.
'Slogger
another thumbs up for glucosamine sulfate from me
Lone Wolf
02-22-2007, 14:05
i've been using it for a couple years. was training for an ultramarathon and my right knee was talkin' to me. i had major surgery on it 28 years ago. tore my ACL, PCL, MCL plus tore the cartilage. the stuff works
hammock engineer
02-22-2007, 14:06
I have taken it on and off. It helps, but I can never remember to take it daily.
A couple thoughts. From what I understand (I used to be big into suppliments for what its worth), it takes about 3 weeks or so to start feeling the effects. I saw a show that did a lab test on different brands. They did not find a big difference between the expensive brands and cheap brands. Just use your common sense here as suppliment's claims are not totally governed by the FDA.
A side thought. I put together a 2 weeks supply and weighed it. It is pretty heavy. That might be something you will want to buy along the way and not think you are going to carry a month's supply. I think the normal dose is 1 or 2,000 mg per day.
Look into ones that also contain Chondritium (bad spelling). Studies have shown this helps.
Hiking poles, pack weight, and going slow are major help to me when the knees or back are hurting.
Skidsteer
02-22-2007, 14:09
I've been taking it for about a year. I started taking it as a preventative because I thought my joints were in pretty good shape at the time. Glucosamine makes them feel even better.
I began a regimen of Glucosamine and Chondroitin many years ago when I heard about it in Canada. At that time it was still fairly obscure in the US. I found a relatively quick improvement in just over two weeks. I continued to improve somewhat over the following month. For many years I continued to use it and even after stopping I experienced no regression to the point at which I started. So, from my experience, somewhere between a month and six weeks you should be at whatever level you'd peak at.
Footslogger
02-22-2007, 14:17
[quote=hammock engineer;326902]
Look into ones that also contain Chondritium (bad spelling). Studies have shown this helps.
======================================
Work in the orthopedic/sports med world and so far I know of no convincing evidence to support the efficacy of the Chondroitin. Not only that, the products that contain both Glucosamine and Chondroitin are considerably more expensive.
Can you point me to those studies. Maybe my information is out of date ??
Thanks,
'Slogger
4eyedbuzzard
02-22-2007, 14:35
...Look into ones that also contain Chondritium (bad spelling). Studies have shown this helps.
Work in the orthopedic/sports med world and so far I know of no convincing evidence to support the efficacy of the Chondroitin. Not only that, the products that contain both Glucosamine and Chondroitin are considerably more expensive.
Can you point me to those studies. Maybe my information is out of date ??
My Orthopaedist had me taking Glucosamine and Condroitin after a back injury in 2003. Now he is less of an advocate. His attitude toward supplements and and even vitamins in general is that they might help and at worst produce expensive urine.
I did find this article which references some clinical studies on the suject: http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?thread_id=220&topcategory=Knee
Blissful
02-22-2007, 14:59
Yes, I take glucosomine only - twice a day. I get it from Swanson vitamins. Without it my knee joints ache like crazy ( in fact, when I stopped using it for 2 weeks once, thinking I could go off of it, my knees acted up again). I already have it in my mail drops.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-22-2007, 15:11
I take Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM supplements (http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=1D419C3F966D4069B5C08DE1591DB275&PID=5481&CID=45&CPID=8177) daily - it has helped.
VictoriaM
02-22-2007, 15:28
I take 1500mg of Glucosamine with Chondroitin daily. It's helped a lot. I've also taken just Glucosamine, and feel that it didn't help as much as the "and Chondroitin" formula does, but YMMV.
superman
02-22-2007, 15:28
Yes, I also take Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM supplements (http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=1D419C3F966D4069B5C08DE1591DB275&PID=5481&CID=45&CPID=8177) . I've been taking it for about 10 years.
Arthritis is an issue for me and it has made a huge differece. I don't believe in taking any pill I don't have to but my life would be a lot more difficult without it. Almost all my friends in my age group also take it.
I've been taking one 1000MG capsule of glucosomine sulfate daily since 1997. Started with three capsules a day, and gradually backed off to one per doctor's advice.
It has worked very well. I used to come off a long hike (multi-week) with horribly sore knees. No more.
It's important to remember this is not an anti-inflammatory. You don't get instant relief. Took about three months to notice significant improvement, and it's lasted all this time. I think of it as preventive medicine.
A pharmacist friend told me plain old generic or store brand GS is all you need...that the name brand stuff with Condroitin and other additives, while not harmful, are mostly hype and a waste of money.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-22-2007, 15:43
My PT recommended the MSM for pain relief - it does not promote healing.
btw - I have heard that one can save some money by measuring it out yourself - get GS in bulk from a veterinarian - say its for your horse - get some empty gel caps and package it up for yourself
hammock engineer
02-22-2007, 15:57
Can't really say where I read them, it's been a few years since I was into suppliments. I'll leave that up to the Mythbusters.
Pacific Tortuga
02-22-2007, 16:18
Been taking Rx strengh for six years in part for preperation for a thru. I'll see how it does me on the trail, believing in it is half the cure.
Farr Away
02-22-2007, 16:41
I started taking glucosomine again after I seriously injured my knee last summer. Like others have said, you don't see instant results, but it does seem to make a difference. At this point, I plan to take it through this next hiking season anyway. My 2 cents.
I've taken it in two different forms - (big) tablets and gel caps filled with powder. It may be worth weighing each kind...
FanaticFringer
02-22-2007, 16:49
Been taking it now for a month. 2,000mg daily. Wally World has a great price. Get the big container. Have already noticed more spring in my knees.
troglobil
02-22-2007, 17:13
I started last week, hoping it helps. My wife works in a rehab home and Drs. there that she respects reccomend it.
EarlyBird2007
02-22-2007, 17:24
I've been taking it for about 6 years now. I had done several marathons and triathlons, as well as hiking and biking. At about age 48 my knees really started hurting, as well as an elbow that I hurt in a fall. I started taking it and, after a couple of months, it really started to help. My Dr. told me this is one of the few supplements for which scientific studies have shown clear results. As others have said, don't give up on it until you have taken it for a couple of months. It has to build up a level in your system before it starts to help.
Mr. Clean
02-22-2007, 18:14
I've been taking glucosamine/condroitin for about four years. It will take several weeks for knee (or other) pain to go away. After a period of time, you can cut back to every other day or so. I take it now every other or third day and my knees are fine.
Take this time now to also strengthen your knee muscles. While sitting in a chair, even at your work desk, lift your leg at the knee till it is parallel with the floor and hold. Do the other leg. Repeat many times. You will find that after a few weeks, you'll be able to hold your leg up for very long periods of time. It has really helped me to be able to hike about the White Mtns in New Hampshire and the Mahoosucs. You WILL see a big difference.
hopefulhiker
02-22-2007, 18:48
You have to take bunches of it... But it makes you Fart a lot....
Footslogger
02-22-2007, 19:02
You have to take bunches of it... But it makes you Fart a lot....
============================
Maybe we oughta rename it GLUFARTSIMINE
'Slogger
Earl Grey
02-22-2007, 22:12
After all the positive review I went to target to get some. Man this stuff is pretty expensive. Bought the target brand where you take 2 a day, doesnt matter if you take them at the same time or not. Lets hope it works.
FanaticFringer
02-22-2007, 22:16
After all the positive review I went to target to get some. Man this stuff is pretty expensive. Bought the target brand where you take 2 a day, doesnt matter if you take them at the same time or not. Lets hope it works.
You think it's expensive at Target, try your local health food store.:eek:
My bottle from Wal Mart is 300 count. Will last 5 months for around
$13.00. Thats damn cheap.
VictoriaM
02-22-2007, 23:14
You think it's expensive at Target, try your local health food store.:eek:
My bottle from Wal Mart is 300 count. Will last 5 months for around
$13.00. Thats damn cheap.
Wow, I need to start getting mine at Wal Mart. I buy a 120 count bottle (at three a day, that lasts 40 days) for $26 at the grocery store.
Blissful
02-22-2007, 23:58
I get mine at Swanson. www.swansonvitamins.com (http://www.swansonvitamins.com) Glucosomine Sulfate, Swanson brand. 500 mg. 120 caps for $14.99. (but I also get other stuff from them, like ester c, Co Q, and my multi vitamin. They have good quality, IMO)
Also, there is Glucosomine HCl out there. Don't get that stuff. It made my knees ache again, thinking the two were the same. I wasted a whole bottle.
superman
02-23-2007, 08:05
Under the topic of health I mention this for what ever its worth. We had a couple nurses and a vet. Tech. hiking the trail in 2000. Their good advice on the trail was right on the money. The people who listened to the advice worked their way through what ever their hiking issue was. The people who went to doctors along the trail usually went home. I remember speculating about that as we hiked. One thought was that the doctors covered their butts by advising going home. On the other hand if a person went to a doctor maybe their condition warranted going home. We couldn't conclude anything...it was just idle speculation as we hiked. It kind of reminded me of the dying room they used in WWI. Those who went in seldom came back.
This supposedly helps cartilage rebuilding and helps the joints. This in conjunction with a knee brace might make walking downhill bearable. Does anyone use this?
knee braces, & hiking poles help greatly!
Glucosamine-Chondroitin...maybe!:D
Hey Y'all,
Where are the best deals on this stuff?
I recently bought a bottle of Osteo Bi-Flex glucosamine Chondroitin. It was pretty confusing reading the marketing hype and trying to decide which to buy (with sulfate or chondroitin). I went for the this one because it offered 1/3 more free and had the cheesey smiley face walmart markdown. It was something like 20 bucks or so for 107 horse pill size caplets.
It's too soon to say if it's working or not. Mainly because I keep forgetting to take it.
... in conjunction with a knee brace might make walking downhill bearable...
An aside to part of your original question, I have used a knee brace from time to time and it certainly helped on the support, but I had to be a lot more careful on hygiene as within a day or two a rash would develop under the brace. Talc helped some, but I really had to work hard to keep everything clean.
You think it's expensive at Target, try your local health food store.:eek:
My bottle from Wal Mart is 300 count. Will last 5 months for around
$13.00. Thats damn cheap.
Are you talking about Glucosamine Sulfate or Glucosamine with Chondroitin.
I have never seen the Glucosamine with Chondroitin that cheap
Footslogger
02-23-2007, 10:27
Also, there is Glucosomine HCl out there. Don't get that stuff. It made my knees ache again, thinking the two were the same. I wasted a whole bottle.
Glucosamie in the HCL formulation contains Chondroitin. Glucosamine alone is sold in the Sulfate formulation.
'Slogger
EarlyBird2007
02-23-2007, 10:33
I've been using the stuff for almost 6 years. I've found the best prices at Wal-Mart and BJ's Wholesale Club.
Even my vet recommended 1000MG daily of Glucosomine Sulfate (without the hyped additives) for my dog. Plus, a baby aspirin. She was starting to slow down, was between 8 and 9 at the time, a lab mix, and labs are known for having serious joint and hip issues starting by that age. Now going on at least 11, she again has the bounce of a three-year-old on the trail.
Every morning we both get our 1000MG of GS and the 81MG aspirin. Works well for both of us, I'd say.
superman
02-23-2007, 11:33
Winter used to take the big Glucosamine pills but now she has it included in her Hill's Precription Diet dog food. $59 for a 30 lb bag. For an old white german shepard she's doing fine.
Fannypack
02-23-2007, 12:02
Hey Y'all,
Where are the best deals on this stuff?
I recently bought a bottle of Osteo Bi-Flex glucosamine Chondroitin. It was pretty confusing reading the marketing hype and trying to decide which to buy (with sulfate or chondroitin). I went for the this one because it offered 1/3 more free and had the cheesey smiley face walmart markdown. It was something like 20 bucks or so for 107 horse pill size caplets.
It's too soon to say if it's working or not. Mainly because I keep forgetting to take it.
I have been taking Osteo Bi-Flex glucosamine Chondroitin w/ MSM for a month, seems to be helping..
Krewzer, pls let us know if Osteo Bi-Flex glucosamine Chondroitin helps u.. Thx.
Mother's Finest
02-23-2007, 13:16
You can get the same effect much cheaper.
Go straight to the source. Just buy powdered knox gelatin.
add a pack to you dinner meal. tastless but may change the texture mildly.
this is straight from the mouth of a Doctor....not me.
peace
mf
eArThworm
02-23-2007, 13:55
Tried the Knox gelatin many years ago and it didn't work for me. YMMV of course. Osteoarthritis had made my hands crippled and very painful. Heard about Glucosamine with Chondroitin from Nimblewill Nomad and started taking it several years ago. It worked for me.
superman
02-23-2007, 17:11
Yes, some of these issues simply have to do with aging. Julie Andrews should have incorporated glucosamine in the following song.
Julie Andrews turns 69 -
To commemorate her 69th birthday on October 1, actress and vocalist, Julie Andrews made a special appearance at Manhattan's Radio City Music Hall for the benefit of the AARP.
One of the musical numbers she performed was "My Favorite Things" from the legendary movie "Sound Of Music".
Here are the lyrics she used:
Maalox and nose drops and needles for knitting,
Walkers and handrails and new dental fittings,
Bundles of magazines tied up in string,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Cadillacs and cataracts ,and hearing aids and glasses,
Polident and Fixodent and false teeth in glasses,
Pacemakers, golf carts and porches with swings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
When the pipes leak,
When the bones creak,
When the knees go bad,
I simply remember my favorite things,
And then I don't feel so bad.
Hot tea and crumpets and corn pads for bunions,
No spicy hot food or food cooked with onions,
Bathrobes and heating pads and hot meals they bring,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Back pains, confused brains, and no need for sinnin',
(slightly edited for content)
Thin bones and fractures and hair that is thinnin',
And we won't mention our short shrunken frames,
When we remember our favorite things.
When the joints ache,
When the hips break,
When the eyes grow dim,
Then I remember the great life I've had,
And then I don't feel so bad.
Ms. Andrews received a standing ovation from the crowd that lasted over four minutes and repeated encores.
It seems to work pretty well when I actually take it routinely for a while, but I'm bad about getting up and running out of the house in the morning and forgetting to take stuff like that.
As far as for dogs, we had a large mixed breed that was getting older and having some obvious joint problems, always a very active dog that was getting a little slow to get up and less active as he aged. We put him on it, once daily stuff from Petsmart and in a couple weeks it really seemed to make a noticable difference for him, he got a little spring back in his step.
Does anyone KNOW if it works better to do a 1000mg dose at once or spread it out over the day?
FanaticFringer
02-23-2007, 17:29
Are you talking about Glucosamine Sulfate or Glucosamine with Chondroitin.
I have never seen the Glucosamine with Chondroitin that cheap
Just Glucosamine Sulfate
FanaticFringer
02-23-2007, 17:32
Good article:
www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/medizin_gesundheit/bericht-15998.html
I've been using this stuff for maybe a year now. Every day. May be psychological but I am convinced it helps.
I also use the Cho-Pat knee braces. Well worth the dough for me.
Almost There
02-23-2007, 23:33
Vets did a test with this and dogs...dogs don't know what they're taking...bottom line they saw no discernable evidence that there were any real physical benefits to taking this...in other words...it didn't help the dogs, take it if you want to...I used to, stopped when I saw this evidence. We wanna believe it helps, for animals it either does or doesn't.
SuzyQhoo
02-24-2007, 00:26
Does anyone know if Glucosamine is made from shellfish? Or is it the Chondroitin or the MSM? Or all three?
Someone suggested one of the above to me many months ago and I went to buy it and every product on the shelf at the pharmacy was made from some sort of shellfish. It's been so long now, I can't remember what it was.
Does anyone know of an alternative product (without shellfish) that will achieve similar results? My knees could use some help.
Thanks! Suz
I have heard glucosamine is generally made from shellfish but I have also heard that there have been no reports of serious allergic reactions to glucosamine -YMMV - if you try it keep your epipen / benedryl handy. Chondroitin is generally made from cow cartilage. There are some combination products from Solgar out there that are advertised as shellfish free - I have no knowledge as to their effectivity. From what I read MSM is mainly a chemical product produced from methane with no shellfish component.
4eyedbuzzard
02-24-2007, 10:29
Does anyone know if Glucosamine is made from shellfish? Or is it the Chondroitin or the MSM? Or all three?
Someone suggested one of the above to me many months ago and I went to buy it and every product on the shelf at the pharmacy was made from some sort of shellfish. It's been so long now, I can't remember what it was.
Does anyone know of an alternative product (without shellfish) that will achieve similar results? My knees could use some help.
Thanks! Suz
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/glucosamine.html
http://www.nextag.com/non_-_shellfish-glucosamine/search-html
okay, my2 cents: I've been taking gluco/chond/ with msm for about 2 years now. i ran cross country thru highschool and college and my right knee started giving me a lot of trouble...the sports dr said the ligaments on either side of my knee cap weren't tight and were thinnerthan they should be, so my knee was grinding. i've noticed a huge diference...no more grinding and the knee only aches a little bit after about a week of hiking, but nothing some alleve can't fix. i plan on taking through my 2008 thru, will have to research the lightest option.
As for animals, another 2 cents:
i'm a veterinary technician and have been for 6 years and here's my opinion:
i've seen a lot of old arthritic dogs and even more dogs who've had orthopedic surgery who were put on the stuff and it eally helped them. won't help as much as say deramaxx or rimadyl, which are nsaids, but over time, it seems to help a lot. a lot of clients who say there was no improvement gave up to soon bc they weren't seeing immediate results. my 2 dogs, 2yrs and 4 yrs medium and large breeds are on it daily wand while it does cost money and they can't tell me if it works, time will tell as they get older and hey. it can't hurt!
-Beaker
mark schofield
02-24-2007, 11:33
At Costco. 170 tablets at 2/day = 3 months for $21.95. I had arthroscopic surgery on both knees a while back. The Dr. said to give it a try. It's been about 3 years now. I guess the only way to see if it really is helping is to stop taking it. I know that my joints stopped "clicking" after I started.
SuzyQhoo
02-24-2007, 12:15
Thank you HOI & 4EyedBuzzard! Both posts with great information! I am encouraged!
4Eyed...I like that Quackwatch site! I added it to my bookmarks! And I will order some of the non-shellfish glucosamine and give it a try! I've been a mysimon user...I'll have to remember to start using Nextag!
Thanks again guys!!! :)
Suz
Has anyone noticed improvement in body parts other than the knee? Kind of hard to wade through all the lit. without getting a little buggy. I get an angry hip, and am tired of cold weather.
Footslogger
02-24-2007, 12:53
[quote=Beaker2;327790] a lot of clients who say there was no improvement gave up to soon bc they weren't seeing immediate results.
==============================
From my personal experience at the clinic I would say that a very large number of people who try Glucosamine fall into this category. Results tend to sometimes be slow to manifest and increase over time.
It's not a panacea or miracle cure ...but there are countless numbers of people (and animals apparently) who have experienced positive results.
I know it has helped me and that's all that's necessary.
'Slogger
waterboy99
02-24-2007, 14:59
Footslogger. Do you remember last year at Traildays you checked out my knee that was hurting me so badly ?. I remember you telling my wife that I would not ever be the same again and given how much it cost to feed me that she should have me put down because my knee was gone. Well ! right after that, I started a regime of two glucosamine tabs aday and have done so well my wife has given a reprieve. But for real, my knee does not bother me at all. I have not missed a day on the glucosamine since last year. I have done a couple of twenty mile days and plan to hike the entire 34 miles of the Creeper Trail in one day in the next few months. This time last year I could hardly walk across the living room.
Footslogger
02-24-2007, 15:56
Footslogger. Do you remember last year at Traildays you checked out my knee that was hurting me so badly ?. I remember you telling my wife that I would not ever be the same again and given how much it cost to feed me that she should have me put down because my knee was gone.
===================
I said THAT ?? ...nah !! Besides, who else would take out the garbage then ??
Well ! right after that, I started a regime of two glucosamine tabs aday and have done so well my wife has given a reprieve. But for real, my knee does not bother me at all. I have not missed a day on the glucosamine since last year. I have done a couple of twenty mile days and plan to hike the entire 34 miles of the Creeper Trail in one day in the next few months. This time last year I could hardly walk across the living room.
====================
That's great news !! I do remember our discussion and I think I told you that I was taking Glucosamine myself at that time (and had been for quite a while). Either way, I'm glad to hear that you're able to get out there and knock out the miles again. Now we've got to get Miss Ellie going on the Glucosamine so that she can keep up with you.
By the way ...great hearing from you !!
'Slogger
waterboy99
02-24-2007, 18:14
Footslogger. Miss Ellie is on glucosamine twice a day just like me. She may not bang big miles but she is on the trail just about every day. She even got into the ice cold creek yesterday. Not too bad for a 15 year old Golden.
skyhiker2
02-24-2007, 21:35
I submission wresltle and it takes a toll on your joints. When I tried the GC.. It definitely helped.
Footslogger
02-24-2007, 21:47
Footslogger. Miss Ellie is on glucosamine twice a day just like me. She may not bang big miles but she is on the trail just about every day. She even got into the ice cold creek yesterday. Not too bad for a 15 year old Golden.
==========================
More good news !! ...I always say what's good for the goose is good for the gander !!
Thanks for adding that note ...
'Slogger
Has anyone noticed improvement in body parts other than the knee? Kind of hard to wade through all the lit. without getting a little buggy. I get an angry hip, and am tired of cold weather.
yes - my hands have a bit of pain that the glucosamine helps - as to hips I am unsure as to where the pain in my hip is coming from - currently I am guessing a lower back problem but I am unsure (too cheap to go to the specialist and get it diagnosed for sure) - the glucosamine is probably helping the hip somewhat also since the pain is fairly mild.
Thanks for the reply. Will look for it the next time I get to the "big city."
Rocketman
02-28-2007, 00:09
Recently, there was a "definitive" study of the Glucosamine/Chondroitin family of supplements versus the standard Cox2 inhibitor Celebrex. This is the first phase of two phases. In Phase 1 the goal was to compare the relief of pain from these two drugs vs placebo.
An overly brief summary is given. The study was based upon a 98% confidence level of testing. More stringent than the ordinary 95% level of conficence.
MILD PAIN
Celebrex was effective in pain rellef at the 98% confidence level.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin didn't quite qualify at the 98% confidence level.
SEVERE PAIN
Celebrex was INEFFECTIVE in pain rellef at the 98% confidence level.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin was EFFECTIVE at the 98% confidence level.
So, if your joint pain is mild, you could expect more pain relief from prescription Celebrex.
If your joint pain is severe, you could expect more pain relief from the supplement Glucosamine/Chondroitin
The combination Glucosamine/Chondroitin was always given a higher percentage of pain relief by subjects than either ingredient alone.
Phase 2 of the study will examine the extent to which joint space or cartilage thickness is enhanced by the drugs studied in Phase 1. Results in about another year or so.
You can probably find the .PDF of the study report if you Google "GAIT Glucosamine celebrex"
Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, and this stuff...
http://www.dmso.org/
DMSO, every hiker should have access to this stuff.
Footslogger
02-28-2007, 00:39
[quote=Roocketman;330013]Recently, there was a "definitive" study of the Glucosamine/Chondroitin family of supplements versus the standard Cox2 inhibitor Celebrex. This is the first phase of two phases. In Phase 1 the goal was to compare the relief of pain from these two drugs vs placebo.
======================================
Therin could be part of the problem for many people. I can't speak for the advertising by the various companies ...but the medical professionals with whom I work do not suggest that patients take Glucosamine specifically to relieve pain. After a thorough physical evaluation and good set of radiographs (that suggest early degenerative joint disease/erosion of articular cartilage) Glucosamine is often suggested to offset and/or reduce further deterioration. Secondary to that is/may be the reduction in pain symptoms.
Celebrex on the other hand is prescribed to control inflamation and pain in the musculoskeletal system.
Personally, I don't consider a study to be very relevant that compares the two compounds as related to their ability to control pain. Just not an apples to apples comparison.
'Slogger
Rocketman
02-28-2007, 11:32
There is at least one study of the extent to which the glucosamine type supplements preserve "joint space" or cartilage thickness. In the absence of glucosamine, there is a gradual thinning of the radiologically determined "joint space" or cartilage thickness. With Glucosamine type supplements, there was a drop in the rate of loss of "joint space" to practically zero. However, there was a lot of scatter in the data, and ithe large data scatter could represent either the experimental error in the Xray method, or person to person variability in response, or both.
Personally, I take it and am convinced that my joint symptoms are far less severe (pain). My joints never creaked from bone to bone scraping contact.
Some doctors didn't read the report carefully, and came to the biased conclusion that the Glucosamine type supplements didn't work, and that Celebrex did. In other words, they read just half of the results and made their conclusion in favor of the official prescription medication. That was the one that failed to provide statistically proven pain relief for severe pain cases.
The upcoming Phase 2 study will report on "joint space" and cartilage regrowth possibilities.
Research is a PITA. Takes too much time and money.
EarlyBird2007
02-28-2007, 12:21
Has anyone noticed improvement in body parts other than the knee? Kind of hard to wade through all the lit. without getting a little buggy. I get an angry hip, and am tired of cold weather.
I injured my elbow several years ago. I used to get pains when I used it a lot. GC helped with this as well as my knees. Been taking it for @ 6 yrs.
Critterman
02-28-2007, 16:02
Recently, there was a "definitive" study of the Glucosamine/Chondroitin family of supplements versus the standard Cox2 inhibitor Celebrex. This is the first phase of two phases. In Phase 1 the goal was to compare the relief of pain from these two drugs vs placebo.
An overly brief summary is given. The study was based upon a 98% confidence level of testing. More stringent than the ordinary 95% level of conficence.
MILD PAIN
Celebrex was effective in pain rellef at the 98% confidence level.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin didn't quite qualify at the 98% confidence level.
SEVERE PAIN
Celebrex was INEFFECTIVE in pain rellef at the 98% confidence level.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin was EFFECTIVE at the 98% confidence level.
So, if your joint pain is mild, you could expect more pain relief from prescription Celebrex.
If your joint pain is severe, you could expect more pain relief from the supplement Glucosamine/Chondroitin
The combination Glucosamine/Chondroitin was always given a higher percentage of pain relief by subjects than either ingredient alone.
Phase 2 of the study will examine the extent to which joint space or cartilage thickness is enhanced by the drugs studied in Phase 1. Results in about another year or so.
You can probably find the .PDF of the study report if you Google "GAIT Glucosamine celebrex"
http:/ncam.nih.gov/research/gait/qa.htm has the study in short form and it says that basically a placebo and glucoasmine worked equally well except for a small subset of people in severe pain. However, success was measured as a reduction of pain by 20% or more. In that small subset of people 79% had a reduction in pain versus 54% for placebo. Makes you wonder when 54% of people taking sugar pills had 20% improvement in pain what is real and what is hopeful thinking.
Footslogger
02-28-2007, 16:18
http:/ncam.nih.gov/research/gait/qa.htm has the study in short form and it says that basically a placebo and glucoasmine worked equally well except for a small subset of people in severe pain. However, success was measured as a reduction of pain by 20% or more. In that small subset of people 79% had a reduction in pain versus 54% for placebo. Makes you wonder when 54% of people taking sugar pills had 20% improvement in pain what is real and what is hopeful thinking.
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So ...If someone really wants to roll the dice they could just start taking sugar pills.
I'll stick with the Glucosamine until I have severe pain and then I'll add Celebrex to the mix.
'Slogger
Makes you wonder when 54% of people taking sugar pills had 20% improvement in pain what is real and what is hopeful thinking.
Even if it's power of the mind no pain is no pain. If popping a pill makes you think your way out of pain you're still out of pain. I say that's good.
2/3 of students studying pathology come down with or feel the symptoms of diseases they're studying.
I read where Chondroitin has a natural blood thinner. Does anyone know if that is true?
FanaticFringer
02-28-2007, 19:44
I read where Chondroitin has a natural blood thinner. Does anyone know if that is true?
Never heard that. I say forget about Chrondroitin. Save your money and just use Glucosamine Sulfate for at least 4-12 weeks .
OK. I'm switching from Chrondroitin. Just found the Spring Valley brand, "Glucosamine Sulfate" 1500mg, 100 tablet bottle for $7.00 on sale at Wally World.
That beats the heck out 20 to 25 bucks.
Earl Grey
03-19-2007, 23:19
Update:
After taking it for a month I can definetly tell a difference. I seem to have more "mobility" as in the range i can swing my leg back and forth. When I used to walk down steps I used to be able to "feel" a spot in my knee but not anymore. This in combination with weight training and I think ill be healthy for the whole trail (knock on wood).
Recently I picked up a big bottle of glucosamine HCl 1500mg at Sams. Theres 300 pills in it which will last a long while. The stuff I WAS taking had then chondroitin in it and and also glucosamine. The directions for the stuff I was taking said take 2 pills a day and it also was 1500mg of glucosamine. The new stuff says to take only one pill a day but its also 1500mg. Why would they be different and whats the correct dosage?
As you might guess from my handle I take Glucosamine and condrotin. I was having some problems with mild nausea taking those horse pills. I found GNC has chewables. They come in chocolate and peanut butter flavor and I seem to tolaerate them better. More exensive? Yes but at least now I take them regulary.
I am not so sure that Glucosamine works. As a Ph.D biologist I would have to say the data is mixed at this point. But I figure I have one set of knees and why wait while the researchers figure it out. I haven't seen any data that suggests either glucosamine or condroitin has any negitive effects other than a slow drain on my checking account.
Mr. Clean
03-20-2007, 04:55
Most studies come to no real conclusion as to if the stuff works, but ask folk who use it and most will say it's saved them. The glucosamine "oils" the joints while the condroitin may possibly rebuild cartilage. I take both, and whatever it does, it is helping big time.
Most studies come to no real conclusion as to if the stuff works, but ask folk who use it and most will say it's saved them. The glucosamine "oils" the joints while the condroitin may possibly rebuild cartilage. I take both, and whatever it does, it is helping big time.
How long did you take it before seeing results. I do not want to start taking it too soon before my hike.
for me it seamed to take 4-6 weeks (4 weeks to think I felt better, 6 weeks to confirm)
FanaticFringer
03-20-2007, 17:22
Most studies come to no real conclusion as to if the stuff works, but ask folk who use it and most will say it's saved them. The glucosamine "oils" the joints while the condroitin may possibly rebuild cartilage. I take both, and whatever it does, it is helping big time.
Other way around. Glucosamine builds and Chondroitin oils.
TIDE-HSV
04-15-2007, 00:00
about Celebrex and all other drugs of the NSAID class. You will eventually pay a price in kidney damage. With five orthopedic surgeries (three on one knee alone), and severe spinal arthritis, God only knows how much Celebrex, Mobic, Advil, etc., I've swallowed. My kidneys are in the normal range in protein and creatinin clearance - barely. It's Glucosamine/Chrondroitin only for me now. If you've taken a lot of NSAIDs, it's not a bad idea, on those occasions when you DO go into the doctor, to have your BUN and serum creatinin run, just to see how your kidneys are doing, particularly if you've had a rise in blood pressure...