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MrHappy
02-28-2007, 02:13
This year I found myself in a larger-than average minority of people who thought it would be a good idea to start the AT in January. On January 17th I was the 10th person to pass through Neels Gap. On January 18th the weather went from 60 degree days and 20 degree nights to 20 degree days and 0 degree nights. I had been b**** slapped by the climate.

On January 28th, at Siler Bald Shelter (the one 3.5 miles from Winding Stair Gap), at about 4000 feet (I think?), the temperature reached -15 degrees Fahrenheit according to my thermometer (it was 3 degrees in Franklin that night). Winds in Franklin were reported at a steady 30 miles per hour with 45 mph gusts. I'll assume that they were similar up on top of Siler Bald. They felt worse.

The windchill factor that evening was NEGATIVE SIXTY THREE DEGREES.

So, you may want to think of March, or at least February, as a good idea. If you're still not perturbed, well, pack that down jacket and the extra fleece.

whykickamoocow
02-28-2007, 06:58
That is incredibly chilly cant say i have ever experienced weather like that, instead of leaving early Feb, might put my start date off till March 1st

mrc237
02-28-2007, 07:13
You can beat the crowds but you can't beat the weather!

Fannypack
02-28-2007, 07:14
no weather guarantees for March; in 1st week of March 1996, the lows were between 0 & 10 deg...

and on March 19, 1996, 1 ft of snow at Winding Stair Gap and 2 ft in Smokies...

just be aware that March in GA thru the Smokies can bring significant snow; usually the biggest problem in GA is freezing rain/ice on the trail

be aware of bail out options

finally, this year, 2007, the college spring break is Mar 10 thru 18 so be prepared for many of these students in the Smokies and allot of them will not be prepared for the weather, some wearing blue jeans

mrc237
02-28-2007, 07:58
I remember WSG in 96 Brrrrr!

NICKTHEGREEK
02-28-2007, 08:07
no weather guarantees for March; in 1st week of March 1996, the lows were between 0 & 10 deg...

and on March 19, 1996, 1 ft of snow at Winding Stair Gap and 2 ft in Smokies...

just be aware that March in GA thru the Smokies can bring significant snow; usually the biggest problem in GA is freezing rain/ice on the trail

be aware of bail out options

finally, this year, 2007, the college spring break is Mar 10 thru 18 so be prepared for many of these students in the Smokies and allot of them will not be prepared for the weather, some wearing blue jeans

Makes you wonder about all the "wisdom" passed out about hiking in trail runners, not carrying extra food, and rain pants are all you need to wear in the winter.
Anyone test how long it takes to melt enough snow to yield a quart of water with a tea candle stove?

Marta
02-28-2007, 08:23
Makes you wonder about all the "wisdom" passed out about hiking in trail runners, not carrying extra food, and rain pants are all you need to wear in the winter.
Anyone test how long it takes to melt enough snow to yield a quart of water with a tea candle stove?

The thing about the AT in the South is that it's not very hard to bail out, go to town, and wait for the 60-degree days to return. Especially if you're carrying a light pack and wearing trail runners, you can be at a road crossing in a few hours.

Marta/Five-Leaf

rafe
02-28-2007, 08:26
Being an old phart, I'd never advise anyone to start before April 1. :)

Toolshed
02-28-2007, 08:27
Makes you wonder about all the "wisdom" passed out about hiking in trail runners, not carrying extra food, and rain pants are all you need to wear in the winter.
Anyone test how long it takes to melt enough snow to yield a quart of water with a tea candle stove?
I truly beleive anyone can backpack with very little when there are no extreme temps. Being prepared for whatever could be thrown your way is what really counts.

The Old Fhart
02-28-2007, 08:38
"Terrapin_too-"Being an old phart, I'd never advise anyone to start before April 1:). Being The Old Fhart, I never started before April 4th. ;) In 1987 there was what they called a 'freak' storm that blanketed the south and dumped 3 feet of snow in GSMNP on April 2nd. There seems to be storms like this every once in a while so I wouldn't call them freak storms but the odds are the weather will be worse the earlier you start. It is still possible to hit 60s in January and I believed that happened this year.

Lone Wolf
02-28-2007, 08:39
i never start before the 3rd week in march

Bob McCaw
02-28-2007, 08:49
I was section hiking in the Smokies May 13 last year and encountered 35 degree temps, heavy rain, and 40 mile per hour winds. Nasty! You have to get well into the year before you can stop thinking about keeping warm.

Ramble~On
02-28-2007, 09:00
I love it ! They call it winter for a reason.

The Smokies will have another crowd of ill prepared Spring Breakers hiking in shoes or sandals and wearing blue jeans. March is usually when we get snow. The southern Apps in winter can dish out some vicious cold temps and elevation can get some serious snow. I realize most people don't view "the south" as having severe winters or heavy snow falls and that's true for Florida and most areas at or just above sea level but anything above 5,000 feet has the potential to dish out some nastiness day or night and well past March.

The Solemates
02-28-2007, 10:11
its winter in the mountains. of course its gonna be cold. i dont understand why people do not comprehend this.

Ewker
02-28-2007, 10:26
its winter in the mountains. of course its gonna be cold. i dont understand why people do not comprehend this.


because it is the south..we don't get that type of weather down here :rolleyes: :p ;)

Alligator
02-28-2007, 10:57
Being The Old Fhart, I never started before April 4th. ;) In 1987 there was what they called a 'freak' storm that blanketed the south and dumped 3 feet of snow in GSMNP on April 2nd. There seems to be storms like this every once in a while so I wouldn't call them freak storms but the odds are the weather will be worse the earlier you start. It is still possible to hit 60s in January and I believed that happened this year.I remember that storm, it dumped a huge amount of snow on the Mid-Atlantic States too. Being a younger fellow;) schools were on delayed openings for several days.

Boat Drinks
02-28-2007, 17:45
finally, this year, 2007, the college spring break is Mar 10 thru 18 so be prepared for many of these students in the Smokies and allot of them will not be prepared for the weather, some wearing blue jeans


You mean I'm leaving one of the Spring Break Capitals for the Trail and I'm still gonna run into them??? :eek: Damn. Well, at least there wont be traffic!:p

bigcranky
02-28-2007, 18:01
Sorry, man, but the trail will be full of spring breakers -- myself included. (Okay, so I'm a little past my college years.) The Smokies seem to get the brunt of the SB hikers for some reason.

Alligator
02-28-2007, 18:37
Spring break dates vary by college. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Just a Hiker
02-28-2007, 19:08
Hello all. I just left the Smoky's today and I am at Standing Bear Farm for the evening. Those of you that know me know that I hike year round, and these types of threads make me mad. I left Springer on february 8th, but I left knowing full well that it was still winter, and that it was going to be cold and snowy. Thats the price you pay to leave early. No one said the AT was going to pull her dress up and pull down her panties for you....if you want to make it to Maine then you will earn it. Because right after the cold and snow there will be lots of rain, then lots of bugs, then very hot days with alot less water than you are finding now. I normally don't waste my time responding to threads like these, but folks like Mr. Happy and Zero sure talked alot of ***** in the lean-to registers in Georgia and now their on here making excuses for why they bailed out or have taken more days off than they have hiked. It's fine to talk the talk, but you still have to walk the walk. Take Care...

Just Jim

Trailwind
02-28-2007, 19:16
Not sure if it was 3 or 4 years ago, but in first week of April during my son's spring break we were in -1F temperatures on the AT at Deep Gap NC just across the border from GA. The next day it warmed up and the rest of the week was fine. 15 hours in the sleeping bag to keep moderately warm during the night...not fun.

Jack Tarlin
02-28-2007, 19:29
This is a really interesting thread, and it's something I've been saying for years......with little success, evidently, as there seem to be more and more early starters each year.

The simple truth (dare I say Inconvenient Truth?) is that if you start before the middle of March you have a MUCH greater chance of running into extended periods of really bad weather. This will slow you down; it will cause you to have late starts each day, and early finishes to your day; it will cause you to take zero days in shelters which is pretty horrifying, unless you think a nine-hour game of hearts is a good time; most importantly, it'll most likely cause you to spend unplanned, and extra time in Trail towns like Hiawassee, Franklin, Fontana, and Gatlinburg, meaning you'll be making no miles and spending a ton of extra money, which many folks can ill afford to do. Every year, lots of folks who start in late February or early March are "caught" by folks who left a week or two later, because the earlybirds were slowed down, or completely stopped, by extended periods of horrible weather. The early ones, who thought they'd somehow have a less crowded trail by jumping the gun and getting ahead of the pack, ended up being caught by folks who wisely waited several weeks to start their hikes. In short, the early ones gained nothing in terms of time, their "secluded trail experience" was mostly spent having six-mile days in lousy weather or spending five extra days in cheap motels, and they ended up EXACTLY where they would have been if they started a few weeks later.....minus around 500 bucks that they hadn't planned on spending.

People can do what they wish, but personally, I wouldn't think of starting in January, February, or early March. Mid to late March, or even early April seems to work out best for me.

Oh, and another thing....those guys that start on Valentine's Day don't see their first wildflower for weeks and weeks into the trip. For me, one of the best things about a Northbound thru-hike is experiencing the joy and beauty of the early Southern Spring, and if you start in January or February, folks, you ain't gonna be starting in springtime.

To each their own, but a lot of folks who start early end up having a rough time of it, and things are rough enough at the outset of a thru-hike anyway.....why make it worse? And lastly, there are an awful lot of folks who drop out early every year because they're too beat up, too tired of being cold and wet, and aren't having any fun at all. One has to wonder how much of this could be avoided if they'd started two or three weeks later. Fact is, for lots of folks, a too early start means a too early trip home.

Earl Shaffer's memoir wasn't called "Walking With Spring" for nothing.

If Earl had started in January, he may have never heard of him.

Something to think about perhaps?

max patch
02-28-2007, 19:41
What Jack says is entirely correct; the only thing I'd add is that those that start in Jan and Feb are probably going to finish during the summer -- and to miss hiking in NE in the fall is a real loss.

Phil1959
02-28-2007, 19:52
I love wolf's short replies! Listen to them.3rd week made sense to me.Lived in Alaska and there you rely on the when more than the clothes stuff. Sometimes,I question the sanity of it all,but then again,don't we all?

Jack Tarlin
02-28-2007, 19:57
Meant to say that if Earl had started too early, WE may have never heard of him, cuz maybe he'd have bailed two weeks into his trip!

Happily, that didn't occur!

rafe
02-28-2007, 20:10
All I know is that I started early April... and in the first few weeks, kept catching up to folks who had started a week or two or three earlier. It made me feel better about my start date. Folks starting early have more crap to deal with. Obviously there are other factors and considerations that affect a start-date decision.

And yes -- the converse happened as well... that is, I was also passed by lots of folks that had started later than me. That's what happens to terrapins. :cool:

YMMV/HYOH, etc.

Frosty
02-28-2007, 21:18
Hello all. I just left the Smoky's today and I am at Standing Bear Farm for the evening. Those of you that know me know that I hike year round, and these types of threads make me mad. I left Springer on february 8th, but I left knowing full well that it was still winter, and that it was going to be cold and snowy. Thats the price you pay to leave early. No one said the AT was going to pull her dress up and pull down her panties for you....if you want to make it to Maine then you will earn it. Because right after the cold and snow there will be lots of rain, then lots of bugs, then very hot days with alot less water than you are finding now. I normally don't waste my time responding to threads like these, but folks like Mr. Happy and Zero sure talked alot of ***** in the lean-to registers in Georgia and now their on here making excuses for why they bailed out or have taken more days off than they have hiked. It's fine to talk the talk, but you still have to walk the walk. Take Care...

Just JimTo each his own. It's good that you are totally prepared and know what to expect. Not sure why you are mad that someone else did not know what was coming. You've been there before and he hasn't. People can talk until they are blue in the face about how different it is in the woods at elevaton, but until you've been there and felt the wind and cold, the words mean nothing.

Besides, some of us (including you, I suspect) have to see and experience things for ourselves in order to believe them. We don't take orders and direction as well as others, and if we suffer for it, it is the price we gladly pay for being who we are. Mr Happy is 19 years old and can hardly have the benefit of your wisdom. He is learning the right way, for himself, the hard way.

As far as making excuses for leaving the trail to come back later, you say above that you left Springer on Feb 8, but that's not true, is it? You left in mid-January but had to leave the trail yourself, to return later when you were more able. Nothing wrong with that. As you yourself said in mid-January, "I certainly can't hike right now, but I have accepted my situation."

Please try to accept Mr. Happy's situation, and good luck with your hike.

Just a Hiker
02-28-2007, 21:42
Hey all. Hey there Frosty.....you may want to read my whole journal. I meant to start on 1/15, but I didn't because I had just been diagnosed with diabetes and couldn't hike till I got my medication and stuff together. It Had nothing to do with weather or desire or gear. Further, I get mad because more and more I see a bunch of people out here who talk alot of smack and recite a bunch of crap they read on here; however, they don't realize they still have to hike the hike. And when they do hike a little bit, they suddenly get this sense of entitlement as though someone owes them something just because they are out here. And by the time they get to Vermont, their a bunch of cocky jerks. Remember when you first thru-hiked Frosty? It was a wonderful and humbling experience wasn't it? This trail saved my sorry butt, and yes, I take a proprietary view at times. However, maybe I have gotten all I am going to get out of this trail and it's time for me to move on to something else. Take care!


Just Jim

Frosty
02-28-2007, 22:53
Remember when you first thru-hiked Frosty? It was a wonderful and humbling experience wasn't it? Humbling is exactly the word. The next thruhike I finish is will be my first one.

Have been enjoying your journal and others.

weary
02-28-2007, 22:54
Hello all. I just left the Smoky's today and I am at Standing Bear Farm for the evening. Those of you that know me know that I hike year round, and these types of threads make me mad. I left Springer on february 8th, but I left knowing full well that it was still winter, and that it was going to be cold and snowy. Thats the price you pay to leave early. No one said the AT was going to pull her dress up and pull down her panties for you....if you want to make it to Maine then you will earn it. Because right after the cold and snow there will be lots of rain, then lots of bugs, then very hot days with alot less water than you are finding now. I normally don't waste my time responding to threads like these, but folks like Mr. Happy and Zero sure talked alot of ***** in the lean-to registers in Georgia and now their on here making excuses for why they bailed out or have taken more days off than they have hiked. It's fine to talk the talk, but you still have to walk the walk. Take Care...Just Jim
Well, I also hike year round. I've backpacked every month of the year. And been on high northern suummits every month of the year.

But I also think late March, early April is the most desirable time to start a thru hike.

Gray Blazer
02-28-2007, 23:02
Do you own snowshoes? I've seen the Roan Highlands when you couldn't get through w/o snowshoes in mid-April.

MrHappy
03-01-2007, 00:17
Just Jim, and others,

Pretty much everybody I know, and everyone on white-blaze, told me that starting in January would be a bad idea. I didn't listen, but I have learned my lesson. I am not making up any excuses. Sure, maybe other people would have kept going when I chose to come home, but I wasn't enjoying my hike at the time, and I want to enjoy it as this may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I don't remember talking any **** in the registers, and Zero is a fairly humble guy too. I also don't recall ever mentioning that I felt entitled to anything. You seem to be casting me in a stereo type.

On a side note, I've been enjoying your journal and living vicariously through you and a few others while I sit at home wishing I could be back out there. Congratulations to your daughter on her acceptance to Middlebury.

Jim Adams
03-01-2007, 00:50
I hike more in the winter than I do in the summer because I don't like the heat, the bugs and with no leaves, you see farther views and more wildlife.
I was told many years ago that "there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing". Ive never had a problem with weather. I have been delayed, re-routed and occassionally stranded but very few times have I ever been in any real danger however if you aren't prepared for this kind of weather you should definitely start later. You could die fairly easily if you don't know what you are doing!

gee

LEGS
03-01-2007, 01:12
You mean I'm leaving one of the Spring Break Capitals for the Trail and I'm still gonna run into them??? :eek: Damn. Well, at least there wont be traffic!:p

you aint that fast, you wont be near the smokies by the 18th march, hell you'll be lucky if your outta georgia by then. hahahahahahah, you go man go!!!! we rootin for ya!!! see ya soon!

Sly
03-01-2007, 01:24
Hey all. Hey there Frosty.....you may want to read my whole journal. I meant to start on 1/15, but I didn't because I had just been diagnosed with diabetes and couldn't hike till I got my medication and stuff together. It Had nothing to do with weather or desire or gear.

According to your journal you were hopping trains and hitch hiking cross country.

Frosty
03-01-2007, 01:26
Pretty much everybody I know, and everyone on white-blaze, told me that starting in January would be a bad idea. I didn't listenDon't worry about it. Next year people will be talking about early starts, and you'll tell them it's a bad idea, and they won't listen any better than you did.

Advice is nice, but if you listen to too much of it, you can lose who you are. I like your way better. Find crap out for yourself.

It's good to get in over your head once in a while. You'll remember it for the rest of your life, and by the time you're my age, the lies, err, stories you tell will grow. Remember, the only real difference between a tragedy and an epic adventure is, if you survive, it's an epic adventure.

Marta
03-01-2007, 06:58
I didn't listen, but I have learned my lesson.

I just had to laugh. This reminded me of an unfortunate day hike with my youngest son on 1/2/05. He insisted on wearing all cotton clothing when it was 40 and pouring rain. When informed that "cotton kills," he replied "You made that up--no one says that."

Three hours later he was blue and shivering and miserable.

His sister and I indulged in a few "I told you so's."

Forrest said, "I'm 19. I'm not supposed to listen to you."

Touche!

Advice--especially when lobbed in the direction of teenagers--is no substitute for direct experience.

Go for it, Mr. Happy! I think you'll have a great hike--great misery, but also great joy.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Just a Hiker
03-01-2007, 09:56
Hello all. Just a few words before I step off. Hey Sly, if you don't like what I do with my free time then don't read my ******ing journal. When I got sick with diabetes I didn't sit around crying about it or making excuses on here for it. I continued with my life before I came back to the trail, and that consists of living with homeless veterans and hobos. I do this because if I live on the streets with them, then they'll let me help them. It's called credibility!! I also travel with hobos on freight trains because those people are as real as people get, not to mention its a great way to see America. So, if any of you don't like that, then don't read my journal. Better yet, go down to your local homeless shelter and spend some time with a homeless person. I am sure they would love to hear your stories about the trail. I make no excuses for what I do or how I hike the trail; however, if I see something on the trail that bothers me, then I will say something. I'll say it either on the trail or in here, but I will say it. Anyway, I better get going. You all take care and have a great year because I still feel that hikers are the best people on this planet.


Just Jim

MrHappy
03-01-2007, 11:16
Just Jim, by your own logic:

If you don't like what I'M saying, read another thread. Just as you are allowed to say when you don't like something on the trail, I am too. And again, I'm not making any bloody excuses. This is a warning, not an excuse. I don't need to excuse my actions to anybody. It's my ******ing hike.

Fly By Mike
03-01-2007, 11:20
Have a good hike, Jim. My hope is that you show as much compassion and treat with as much respect the 19 year olds you meet on the trail as you do those homeless vets. Its OK to say what you like but your post about Mr Happy and Zero casts doubts on their character in this public forum and IMHO were out of line. Mr Happy said he made a mistake and he also said he didn't say anything in registers to upset anyone. (At least anyone who didn't want to be upset that is.) Peace.

MrHappy
03-01-2007, 11:21
Also wanted to thank everyone else for standing up for me.

weary
03-01-2007, 11:42
I had planned to start April 1, 1993, but was delayed until the 13th by unexpected troubles at home. Regardless, it was still "a wonderful and humbling experience."

Being young and inexperienced (64) I assumed April in Georgia must be like January in Miami. It wasn't. On the high ridges it was almost exactly like midcoast Maine in April. For instance, the first mayflowers I saw were just going by on May 1 -- exactly what I would have expected in our land trust preserves on the coast of Maine.

This is a long way of saying that Jack and others suggesting late starts are correct. I saw my first bloodroot blossoms on the approach trail from Amicalola, and enjoyed one of the last blasts of winter on the Springer summit.

From there and into the Smokies, every low point was a fresh spring. As I approached every summit ridgeline I could anticipate a likely late winter. I wouldn't have missed the amazing variety and beauty for anything.

Weary

Footslogger
03-01-2007, 11:49
Started March 17 in 2001 and then March 29th in 2003. Lots of cold/wet weather both times. In fact, first night on the trail in 2003 at Hawk Mountain Shelter we had a snow storm. If you start early you accept the possible consequences ...simple as that.

When we re-hike the AT in 2010 we are planning on starting March 1 and allowing 7 months. Both of us felt like our earlier AT hikes were tempered by deadlines and mile/day goals. Next time we want to take our time and figure the extra month will give us some leeway ...even if the weather in March does slow us down a bit in the beginning.

'Slogger

Heater
03-01-2007, 11:52
Hello all. I just left the Smoky's today and I am at Standing Bear Farm for the evening. Those of you that know me know that I hike year round, and these types of threads make me mad. I left Springer on february 8th, but I left knowing full well that it was still winter, and that it was going to be cold and snowy. Thats the price you pay to leave early. No one said the AT was going to pull her dress up and pull down her panties for you....if you want to make it to Maine then you will earn it. Because right after the cold and snow there will be lots of rain, then lots of bugs, then very hot days with alot less water than you are finding now. I normally don't waste my time responding to threads like these, but folks like Mr. Happy and Zero sure talked alot of ***** in the lean-to registers in Georgia and now their on here making excuses for why they bailed out or have taken more days off than they have hiked. It's fine to talk the talk, but you still have to walk the walk. Take Care...

Just Jim

Ouch! ..... :eek:

max patch
03-01-2007, 11:53
Don't worry about it. Next year people will be talking about early starts, and you'll tell them it's a bad idea, and they won't listen any better than you did.


Reminds me of the young lady 5 or 6 years ago who probably set the record for the most questions ever asked on Trailplace about a thru. She covered every conceivable topic, discussed every possible piece of gear out there, and more.

The result? She started at Springer with close to a 60 pound bag and got off at Rainbow Springs.

The Solemates
03-01-2007, 12:00
why bicker about start dates? does it really matter? yes, warn someone of the consequences, and let them make the decision. no "i told you so's" are needed. let everyone make their own decisions and respect that. what a concept. :eek:

with that said, we started 1 Feb on our thru and enjoyed every minute of it. the weather did not slow us down one bit. we're not talking about mountaineering here folks, we're talking about walking. and walking a relatively easy trail when it comes down to it. if we do it again NOBO, we would either start Jan-Feb or in mid-May. No hot. No bugs. No people.

Gray Blazer
03-01-2007, 15:13
Hello all. Just a few words before I step off. Hey Sly, if you don't like what I do with my free time then don't read my ******ing journal. When I got sick with diabetes I didn't sit around crying about it or making excuses on here for it. I continued with my life before I came back to the trail, and that consists of living with homeless veterans and hobos. I do this because if I live on the streets with them, then they'll let me help them. It's called credibility!! I also travel with hobos on freight trains because those people are as real as people get, not to mention its a great way to see America. So, if any of you don't like that, then don't read my journal. Better yet, go down to your local homeless shelter and spend some time with a homeless person. I am sure they would love to hear your stories about the trail. I make no excuses for what I do or how I hike the trail; however, if I see something on the trail that bothers me, then I will say something. I'll say it either on the trail or in here, but I will say it. Anyway, I better get going. You all take care and have a great year because I still feel that hikers are the best people on this planet.


Just Jim
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. If you don't want people to read your journal then don't write one. Don't worry. I'll never read your journal. It's very noble what you do for or with the homeless. I hope you never get stabbed by a hobo or anyone for that matter. I'm thinking of starting a poll.

Who would you rather hike with:
1. Just a hiker (Just Jim)?
2. Mr. Happy?

Well, I don't know either of them, but just judging from the tone of their posts, I say ......Mr. Happy

Frosty
03-01-2007, 15:21
Forrest said, "I'm 19. I'm not supposed to listen to you."Ha! Good one. Sounds like a teen-aged me. Except that I would not only ignore authority, I would sometimes do exactly the opposite of what I was told to do, just to show that I could. Not sure who I was showing :D

Gray Blazer
03-01-2007, 15:24
Ha! Good one. Sounds like a teen-aged me. Except that I would not only ignore authority, I would sometimes do exactly the opposite of what I was told to do, just to show that I could. Not sure who I was showing :DThat explains what you told me when we first met.

Sly
03-01-2007, 15:58
Hello all. Just a few words before I step off. Hey Sly, if you don't like what I do with my free time then don't read my ******ing journal. When I got sick with diabetes I didn't sit around crying about it or making excuses on here for it. I continued with my life before I came back to the trail, and that consists of living with homeless veterans and hobos. I do this because if I live on the streets with them, then they'll let me help them. It's called credibility!!


Calm down dude, and get your story straight. You said you delayed your hike for health reasons but went hopping railroad cars and hitching. .And so what if someone pulls off the trail because they're uncomfortably cold. Better than dying to prove a point.

Fannypack
03-01-2007, 16:21
on a side note, this thread has taken a turn for the better, and i sense that this thread might become the minnesotasmith thread of 2007/2008.

:banana
I sure hope not because it seems at this point, IMHO, that the posts are more about personalities than opinions...

Bilko
03-01-2007, 16:37
Mr. Happy, I had you down on my list as 'Don't bother reading his journal'. But, after reading your posts here, I believe you have learned a valuable lesson. I think the trail has made you a better person. It takes a big person to admit their mistakes and then share that experince with others. I now have you down as "Can't wait to see Mr. Happy back on the Trail". Good Luck to you and thanks for being real about your experiences.

Sly
03-01-2007, 17:21
I sure hope not because it seems at this point, IMHO, that the posts are more about personalities than opinions...

Humble opinion noted. :rolleyes:

Mother's Finest
03-01-2007, 17:36
on a side note, this thread has taken a turn for the better, and i sense that this thread might become the minnesotasmith thread of 2007/2008.

:banana


No chance.


As to the Journals of Mr Happy, the aforementioned Zero and Just Jim, I have read all of them, and until I read this thread, they all seemed pretty kind. I think Just Jim must have been having a bad day.

Good luck to all three on your hikes.

peace
mf

MrHappy
03-01-2007, 18:40
Bilko, thanks for the vote of confidence and the e-mail.

Please Please PLEASE do not turn this into a Minnesota Smith of 07 thread. There can only be one Minnesota Smith. And besides, I'd rather not become a legend, let alone THAT legend.

I think Mother's Finest is correct. Just Jim may have just been having a bad day. I say things I don't mean on the internet all of the time. I guess we'll find out when he gets into Hot Springs and reads this.

Skidsteer
03-01-2007, 18:48
on a side note, this thread has taken a turn for the better, and i sense that this thread might become the minnesotasmith thread of 2007/2008.

:banana


I sure hope not because it seems at this point, IMHO, that the posts are more about personalities than opinions...

I think you just nailed the essence of the Minnesotasmith thread. :)

whykickamoocow
03-27-2007, 23:34
There has been lots said here by lots of angry people...lol.

I was planning on a March 1st start, and don't have a whole lot of experience with the cold weather. Now i know each year is different and weather conditions can vary greatly, but what type of weather can i expect if i start from Mt Springer at this time of year.

Maybe i should jsut stick with this date and just deal with whatever comes my way.

Marta
03-28-2007, 06:21
There has been lots said here by lots of angry people...lol.

I was planning on a March 1st start, and don't have a whole lot of experience with the cold weather. Now i know each year is different and weather conditions can vary greatly, but what type of weather can i expect if i start from Mt Springer at this time of year.

Maybe i should jsut stick with this date and just deal with whatever comes my way.

You should expect everything from hot sunny days (leaves won't be on the trees yet) to way-below-freezing with some snowfall. The thing is that, if you do get into a few days of really nasty weather, you can always bail out to a town and wait it out. You'll have lots of company.:D

But you should take my advice with a grain of salt because I enjoy winter hiking in this part of the country.

Marta/Five-Leaf

rafe
03-28-2007, 06:34
What Marta says. Expect and plan for extremes. Daytime temps up to 80, nightime temps down to 15 or 20. The extremes happen rarely, but you need to be prepared for them.

kyhipo
03-28-2007, 06:50
Hey all. Hey there Frosty.....you may want to read my whole journal. I meant to start on 1/15, but I didn't because I had just been diagnosed with diabetes and couldn't hike till I got my medication and stuff together. It Had nothing to do with weather or desire or gear. Further, I get mad because more and more I see a bunch of people out here who talk alot of smack and recite a bunch of crap they read on here; however, they don't realize they still have to hike the hike. And when they do hike a little bit, they suddenly get this sense of entitlement as though someone owes them something just because they are out here. And by the time they get to Vermont, their a bunch of cocky jerks. Remember when you first thru-hiked Frosty? It was a wonderful and humbling experience wasn't it? This trail saved my sorry butt, and yes, I take a proprietary view at times. However, maybe I have gotten all I am going to get out of this trail and it's time for me to move on to something else. Take care!


Just Jim
though I usually only hike 3-4 months when I go out anymore ,I was down south of the noc last year just strechting my legs,when I came upon a shelter of thru hikers very unfriendly group wouldnt even let me sit down in the shelter for a breather it was raining.They didnt even ask me my name or anything scared to death if I was gonna stay for the night. well rain or no rain I usually pitch my tent when around groups,just the thought of their cocky looks that got to me !!ky

NICKTHEGREEK
03-28-2007, 07:13
The thing about the AT in the South is that it's not very hard to bail out, go to town, and wait for the 60-degree days to return. Especially if you're carrying a light pack and wearing trail runners, you can be at a road crossing in a few hours.

Marta/Five-Leaf

I wonder if MRHAPPY would have had a "few hours" to get to a road crossing with -63 degree windchills. Just getting to pavement is no guarantee either.

Marta
03-28-2007, 08:14
I wonder if MRHAPPY would have had a "few hours" to get to a road crossing with -63 degree windchills. Just getting to pavement is no guarantee either.

My point is that you can hit a town or hostel about every other day. While there, you can check long-term weather forecasts. Big snow storms and severe cold weather are not usually a total surprise. If in doubt about either your gear, clothing, or skills, hang out in town until the weather changes.

Marta/Five-Leaf

DavidNH
03-28-2007, 08:41
I will add myself here to the list of folks who would not think of starting early (January to mid March).

Besides the high likely hood of experiencing bad weather and even snow,

starting early could cause one to:

1) miss most of the southern spring (that has got to be one of the highlights of an AT trip

2) miss the northern fall (another trip highlight) as you may well finish in mid summer.

3) No matter when you will start..the heat waves of summer will get you at some point!

4) The AT is so well travelled, I don't see anyway to avoid crowds. Well, I guess you could avoid shelters. But there are always plenty of people out on the trail during the hiking season.


David

rafe
03-28-2007, 09:07
4) The AT is so well travelled, I don't see anyway to avoid crowds.

Sure there is. Section hike. Hike only on weekdays. Walk southbound, off-season.

I hiked from the Hudson River to Lehigh Gap last September. Ten nights in the woods, one night at the hostel in DWG.

I tented on two of those nights. Of the remaining eight, I had the shelter to myself, except for Highpoint, where I shared the space with one other hiker. I was so happy for the company...

Between the NY State Thruway and Rte 94 (Vernon) I met exactly two other hikers, and had nearly two full days without seeing one other human.

Alligator
03-28-2007, 09:17
Sssshhhh TT;) .

Everyone should start on the same day, maybe 4/1 with a big kickoff party. Please leave lots of progress notes so we know where the main pack is:) .

Footslogger
03-28-2007, 09:28
Sssshhhh TT;) .

Everyone should start on the same day, maybe 4/1 with a big kickoff party. Please leave lots of progress notes so we know where the main pack is:) .

============================

We could call it the ADZATKO

(Annual Day Zero Appalachain Trail Kick Off)

'Slogger

emerald
03-28-2007, 14:02
Sssshhhh TT;) .

Everyone should start on the same day, maybe 4/1 with a big kickoff party. Please leave lots of progress notes so we know where the main pack is:) .

Yeah, anyway, Terrapin. Of course, I keep promoting alternative itineraries. I ought to shut up too!:rolleyes: ;)

Alligator
03-28-2007, 14:10
We need to work together and keep the thruhiker pack as a

Thus allowing greater solitude for the rest of us.
readily locatable unit confined both spatially and temporally.

rafe
03-28-2007, 14:46
We need to work together and keep the thruhiker pack as a readily locatable unit confined both spatially and temporally.

Git along, little doggies....:D

Bohican
03-29-2007, 14:20
Git along, little doggies....:D

For some reason, this commercial comes to mind....

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2666557

MrHappy
04-06-2007, 19:56
My point is that you can hit a town or hostel about every other day. While there, you can check long-term weather forecasts. Big snow storms and severe cold weather are not usually a total surprise. If in doubt about either your gear, clothing, or skills, hang out in town until the weather changes.

Marta/Five-Leaf


Yep. Ron Haven tried to talk me out of leaving Frankling, because he knew it would be cold. The forecast was for 15 degrees in town. It ended up reaching -3. Stubborn Mr. Happy chose to ignore all of that. Luckily, the next morning I was only a few miles from a road crossing, and I happened to have a cell phone that worked, so the entire evening wasn't life threatening (though it could have been if I hadn't been properly prepared and experienced in cold weather camping).

The Solemates
04-07-2007, 15:32
-3? that's all? we would've never made it if we stopped hiking every time it got below 0F on our thru.

ed bell
04-08-2007, 02:09
-3? that's all? we would've never made it if we stopped hiking every time it got below 0F on our thru.That's because you two are the modern day Wonder Twins. :wonder twin powers, activate. Form of boiling water, shape of a grizzly bear.::D

Egads
04-08-2007, 08:01
Welcome to the Dark Side of White Blaze, where the stronger backpackers (in their own eyes) eat their own.

The same community which goes out of it's way to help a hiker in need on the trail has no mercy from the safety of their living rooms and offices.

Compare the posts on this thread to the affirmations and encouragement in SugarGrits' (Mindi) "This is it" thread.

MrHappy bit off more than he can chew on. The good news is he is safe and will have another opportunity to try again. I personally do not fault him for coming off the trail after experiencing -63* wind chill. We learn much more from our mistakes than our successes.

MrHappy, Get it together & get back out there.

Hike for the enjoyment, not so you can put a feather in your cap.

HYOFH

Egads

SGT Rock
04-08-2007, 08:16
You can still start after St Patrick's Day and beat the crowds - Take the BMT off Springer. By the time you get back on the AT at Davenport Gap half the crowd will be gone. On the other hand winter camping is a whole nother world and shouldn't be missed. If you can hack it, then do it. As to weather. If you plan to hike in winter, don't try to skimp on gear to stay light. That is just crazy.

MrHappy
04-08-2007, 11:41
Read the whole thread. It was -3* in Franklin. At 5000 feet on Silers Bald, it was -15. Like I said -- survivable, but miserable.

It wasn't this particular night that made me decide to take a break and come home. It wasn't until 2 weeks later that I finally made that decision. After 2 weeks of 0 degree weather, I'd just had enough. I did come back to the trail on March 5th, but by March 8th I had pulled my groin muscle. I Spent a long time at Standing Bear Farm, Elmer's, and Miss Janet's, refusing to give in, before finally coming home yesterday. I'll be back out there, if not next year, certainly in the next 4.

Appalachian Tater
04-08-2007, 11:47
Read the whole thread. It was -3* in Franklin. At 5000 feet on Silers Bald, it was -15. Like I said -- survivable, but miserable.

If that's Celsius, you're a wimp!

Just kidding. No way you'd catch me out there in those temps. I hope you consider continuing your hike this year, or if not, as soon as you can. Good luck!

MrHappy
04-08-2007, 21:43
I would love to come back to the trail this year, but my doctors orders are to "avoid hills" until at least June. Since I have to be at school in August, that puts a slight damper on my thru-hike.

Cookerhiker
04-08-2007, 22:56
It seems to me another reason against a January/February start is that your reward for enduring all the cold and snow in the south is maximizing your time exposed to black flies and mosquitoes in the north. Unless, I guess, you start January 1 and finish in 5 months.

TomScanlan
04-08-2007, 23:25
So... as a guy who used to hike a bit ( though no super star) I'm getting back into it. I've never been a winter hiker, and have really not enjoyed most of the last couple of months of hiking, just in the NY area. If I do this next year, I'll invest in crampons (gosh, should I as a sobo starting in june?)!

I'm planning on starting in ME on june 1 and realize that I'm not going to have too much fun in the cold to begin with. Probably even less fun in the cold to end with! In any case, I can understand Mr. Happy for bailing in the short term on the cold. I can also understand Just Jim for being frustrated that folks don't prepare for the cold.


As one that does prepare for the cold (though not for ice or snow travel!) ( and I think mr. happy probably didn't miss full prep by much ), I still don't enjoy it. I'm really starting to doubt my own chances for a all-at-once-thru just because I don't want to deal with too much cold at the beginning or end of the trip.

As prepared as I can be, I just don't enjoy it as much as spring time temps through out :) I'll give it a good try, and then consider sectioning if I realy can't stand it.

So.. I can understand the original post... sometimes it may be best to find a good temperature (start date) to start at, but keep in mind that cold will still be a factor at some point, unless you are quick all the way through and nature plays friendly the whole way. Keep in mind, I'm speaking as a potential sobo... nobos may be able to go all the way without severe cold... I really haven't done too much research into that... gosh really of track now!

rafe
04-08-2007, 23:50
You deal with cold, or you deal with hot. Or both. Or section hike, and always do you sections in the best season... like August-September. Works for me. :D

hammock engineer
04-09-2007, 00:53
So... as a guy who used to hike a bit ( though no super star) I'm getting back into it. I've never been a winter hiker, and have really not enjoyed most of the last couple of months of hiking, just in the NY area. If I do this next year, I'll invest in crampons (gosh, should I as a sobo starting in june?)!

I'm planning on starting in ME on june 1 and realize that I'm not going to have too much fun in the cold to begin with. Probably even less fun in the cold to end with! In any case, I can understand Mr. Happy for bailing in the short term on the cold. I can also understand Just Jim for being frustrated that folks don't prepare for the cold.


As one that does prepare for the cold (though not for ice or snow travel!) ( and I think mr. happy probably didn't miss full prep by much ), I still don't enjoy it. I'm really starting to doubt my own chances for a all-at-once-thru just because I don't want to deal with too much cold at the beginning or end of the trip.

As prepared as I can be, I just don't enjoy it as much as spring time temps through out :) I'll give it a good try, and then consider sectioning if I realy can't stand it.

So.. I can understand the original post... sometimes it may be best to find a good temperature (start date) to start at, but keep in mind that cold will still be a factor at some point, unless you are quick all the way through and nature plays friendly the whole way. Keep in mind, I'm speaking as a potential sobo... nobos may be able to go all the way without severe cold... I really haven't done too much research into that... gosh really of track now!


Plan and test the best you can. After that all that is left is to wing it and roll with the punches. Of course I am one of those people who choose to do day hikes in the cold, rain, snow, hot, sunny, cloudy, night, day, or basically any time I can. Usually the worse the weather the bigger the smile on my face. Funny this is when I would see other people on those day (all be it few and far between) they were usually enjoying it too.

Too me if you can prepare right, any weather conditions can be fun. I choose to go out on all the bad days or sleep in the backyard on the sub zero days or rain storms. But now I know I can handle anything thrown my way.

BTW I am shooting for June 1st too. Hopefully I'll see you out there.

hammock engineer
04-09-2007, 00:54
Forgot to add, I have a pair of crampons that I can have sent to me if I need them. Found a good pair that weighs in at just over a pound. Haven't used them yet though. Not much use for them in Ohio.

MrHappy
04-09-2007, 01:29
In terms of gear, I was pretty well prepared for the cold weather. I had a ten-degree bag and I usually sleep very warm (I like to use a 0* even on -20 new england winter nights), a fairly decent tent, nalgenes to use as hot water bottles, and plenty of fleece. Later I added a silk liner to my sleeping bag. The only thing I was really missing was a down jacket or vest.

What I wasn't prepared for was how physically exhausted I would be after day after day of mile after mile, and how much more difficult that made it to deal with the cold, as well as my emotions.

Just by taking two weeks off as I did, it made all of the difference in the world. By the time I got back to the trail I was with other people - great people - and the temperatures were more like 20* at night instead of 0*. I was actually sweating inside my sleeping bag most nights.

Also, just because I couldn't handle it (or at least, didn't want to), doesn't mean others couldn't. G.H.O.S.T and a few others who started BEFORE me are now in PA or NJ I think.

Marta
04-09-2007, 07:45
Going SOBO or starting early NOBO, there's the cold, but there's also the dark. The long dark hours are pretty hard to deal with, night after night. Not impossible, but hard.

None of the obstacles of winter hiking are insurmountable--the cold, the dark, the loneliness. But they do make most hikers wonder what the heck they're doing out there. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the individual.

I vastly prefer hiking in shallow snow to hiking in the rain. I think snow is beautiful and fun. But the long nights on the wrong side of the equinoxes...that's a challenge.

Marta/Five-Leaf

MrHappy
04-10-2007, 12:05
Going SOBO or starting early NOBO, there's the cold, but there's also the dark. The long dark hours are pretty hard to deal with, night after night. Not impossible, but hard.

None of the obstacles of winter hiking are insurmountable--the cold, the dark, the loneliness. But they do make most hikers wonder what the heck they're doing out there. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the individual.

I vastly prefer hiking in shallow snow to hiking in the rain. I think snow is beautiful and fun. But the long nights on the wrong side of the equinoxes...that's a challenge.

Marta/Five-Leaf

I personally couldn't agree more with just about everything you've said here. I love snow, hate rain, and the darkness was very mentally challenging.

minnesotasmith
04-10-2007, 15:04
My last day as I headed north out of the Park saw 5 miles of 11" of snow. 'Nuff said.

Johnny Swank
04-10-2007, 17:53
Going SOBO or starting early NOBO, there's the cold, but there's also the dark. The long dark hours are pretty hard to deal with, night after night. Not impossible, but hard.

None of the obstacles of winter hiking are insurmountable--the cold, the dark, the loneliness. But they do make most hikers wonder what the heck they're doing out there. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the individual.

I vastly prefer hiking in shallow snow to hiking in the rain. I think snow is beautiful and fun. But the long nights on the wrong side of the equinoxes...that's a challenge.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Amen. I'm positive that I night-hiked at least 150-200 miles on my SOBO. I love to hike at dusk (and dawn if I can drag myself up) though. YMMV

hammock engineer
04-11-2007, 00:25
Amen. I'm positive that I night-hiked at least 150-200 miles on my SOBO. I love to hike at dusk (and dawn if I can drag myself up) though. YMMV


Good thing I invested in a good headlamp.:D

Think the hammock will help in making site selection easier too.:cool: