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View Full Version : Has anyone bought, tried, or made an Alcohol stove like this...



RockStar
03-05-2007, 09:55
This guy on ebay has been selling this alcohol stove for a long time now : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270084478286&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:PIC&ih=017

I have been considering buying one just to test it out. It seems legit. He has lots of good feedback and a ton of info and pics on his auction. The only thing I wonder, and maybe I should ask him this, is he did a test in the cold...not just a little cold but like high winds and temp in the 20's and he said it took 20 minutes to get the water going. I use my regular alcohol stove and it never takes me that long or more than 2oz to make dinner...I wonder if he warms his fuel first or not? I always had problems until I learned you have to warm your fuel up a little. It is interesting...chekc it out lemme know what you guys/gals think. Long live the GUy who made the first alcohol stove!!!:banana

Ewker
03-05-2007, 10:44
I can't speak for that stove but I just recently bought this one off ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-BOX-STOVES-BACKPACK-ALCOHOL-CAMP-STOVE-2300-SOLD_W0QQitemZ220087301336QQihZ012QQcategoryZ87136 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It isn't cheap since Gossamer Gear is selling his stove.

Last night I boiled 16 ounces of water in 5 minutes 25 seconds with 1 ounce of fuel in extremely windy conditions. The stove kept going for another minute after the water reach a full boil. I think I could have boiled 24 ounces with no problem.

My results were not the same as what he says but so far I am impresses

he says this on his site:

"TESTING HAS SHOWN IT CAN BOIL 2 CUPS OF WATER IN APPROXIMATELY 4 MINUTES WITH ONLY 2/3 OUNCE OF FUEL AND WE WERE ABLE TO BOIL 3 CUPS OF WATER IN LESS THAN 6 MINUTES WITH ONLY 1 OUNCE OF FUEL. IT HAS BOILED 6 CUPS OF WATER IN 12 MINUTES WITH 2 OUNCES OF FUEL. THAT MAKES THIS STOVE ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT ALCOHOL CAN STOVES EVER.

This guy also offers a money back guarantee

RockStar
03-05-2007, 11:11
I can't speak for that stove but I just recently bought this one off ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-BOX-STOVES-BACKPACK-ALCOHOL-CAMP-STOVE-2300-SOLD_W0QQitemZ220087301336QQihZ012QQcategoryZ87136 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



WOW, am glad I posted instead of buying the other one. This things looks like my next stove! THANKS!!:sun

One question, so how much fuel do you carry then for say 4 day trip with this stove? I use to use around 8 ounces for 4 days with my reg. pepsi can.

No Belay
03-05-2007, 11:13
Rock Star, Sometimes things aren't what they're advertised to be. Bought 2 of the stoves you're looking at and had only mediocre experiences with them. Gave one to my EX and the the other to a home stove builder to dissect. The White box stove is a side burner so you can place your pot directly on top of it for support and it comes with a hardy wind screen. They used to be a reasonable $9 with the windscreen but now have been increased to an unreasonable price of $20. I don't think any alky stove is worth that. Check out gear builder forum on WB. Unless you have 3 thumbs like me, the stoves are easy to make.

Savor Happy!

RockStar
03-05-2007, 11:20
Thanks No belay!!

Ewker
03-05-2007, 11:21
The White box stove is a side burner so you can place your pot directly on top of it for support and it comes with a hardy wind screen. They used to be a reasonable $9 with the windscreen but now have been increased to an unreasonable price of $20. I don't think any alky stove is worth that.

I emailed the guy about why his price went up so much. I was going to buy two (one for me, another for a friend)at 10.00 each. When he aligned with Gossamer Gear is when the price shot up.

I will say this stove doesn't even look like a pepsi can stove. It is hard to tell the inner section from the outer section. It looks like a lot more work went into this than a normal alcohol stove that I can make. you have nothing to lose but 3.00 since he offers you your money back

Heater
03-05-2007, 11:31
I can't speak for that stove but I just recently bought this one off ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-BOX-STOVES-BACKPACK-ALCOHOL-CAMP-STOVE-2300-SOLD_W0QQitemZ220087301336QQihZ012QQcategoryZ87136 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It isn't cheap since Gossamer Gear is selling his stove.

Last night I boiled 16 ounces of water in 5 minutes 25 seconds with 1 ounce of fuel in extremely windy conditions. The stove kept going for another minute after the water reach a full boil. I think I could have boiled 24 ounces with no problem.

My results were not the same as what he says but so far I am impresses

he says this on his site:

"TESTING HAS SHOWN IT CAN BOIL 2 CUPS OF WATER IN APPROXIMATELY 4 MINUTES WITH ONLY 2/3 OUNCE OF FUEL AND WE WERE ABLE TO BOIL 3 CUPS OF WATER IN LESS THAN 6 MINUTES WITH ONLY 1 OUNCE OF FUEL. IT HAS BOILED 6 CUPS OF WATER IN 12 MINUTES WITH 2 OUNCES OF FUEL. THAT MAKES THIS STOVE ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT ALCOHOL CAN STOVES EVER.

This guy also offers a money back guarantee

Yeah, I got one one those a few months ago... It was less than 10 bucks then.

Great stove that looks like it is made out of an aluminum bottle.Very thick aluminum... (1/32" ?) The bottom part of the bottle with the neck inverted down into place inside and riveted rather than JB welded or taped. VERY GOOD workmanship.

The Whitebox stove kicksass and it rhymes with Whiteblaze. :D

Footslogger
03-05-2007, 11:39
Not that exact stove but I bought one that looks identical to the one shown in your post quite a while ago. Tried it at home and it seems to work fine. Haven't taken it on the trail yet. Still using my tried and proven Trangia.

'Slogger

Heater
03-05-2007, 11:41
"TESTING HAS SHOWN IT CAN BOIL 2 CUPS OF WATER IN APPROXIMATELY 4 MINUTES WITH ONLY 2/3 OUNCE OF FUEL AND WE WERE ABLE TO BOIL 3 CUPS OF WATER IN LESS THAN 6 MINUTES WITH ONLY 1 OUNCE OF FUEL. IT HAS BOILED 6 CUPS OF WATER IN 12 MINUTES WITH 2 OUNCES OF FUEL. THAT MAKES THIS STOVE ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT ALCOHOL CAN STOVES EVER.



I don't think the boil times are that quick.

I guess it depends on what your idea of "boiling" is.
For me, it is when it starts a gentle "roll" at least.

I guess it also depends on the pot you use, starting water temp, wind, etc...

Fiddler
03-05-2007, 12:27
How soon do you need a stove? If you have some time yet why not make your own? Check these links for several designs and a lot of good info.
Alcohol Stove Links
http://zenstoves.net/
http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/ion_stove.html
http://www.ionstove.com/index.htm
http://wings.interfree.it/index.html
http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/stove.html

A lot of good reading there even if you don't want to try making your own.

RockStar
03-05-2007, 12:52
Thanks Fiddler! I have been searching for instructions! You read my mind!:D

No Belay
03-05-2007, 14:32
Yeah, I got one one those a few months ago... It was less than 10 bucks then.

Great stove that looks like it is made out of an aluminum bottle.Very thick aluminum... (1/32" ?) The bottom part of the bottle with the neck inverted down into place inside and riveted rather than JB welded or taped. VERY GOOD workmanship.

The Whitebox stove kicksass and it rhymes with Whiteblaze. :D

The one I bought from Bill was made from a Budweiser aluminum bottle with the paint buffed off. Buy one, take it apart and use it for a pattern. They're simple to make and make great gifts. I try to make six at a time and seem to really enjoy myself after the 3rd bottle although the quality seems to suffer by #6. :confused:

RockStar
03-05-2007, 15:12
The Penny Stove looks interesting as well. I dunno if they sell beer in cans that big here! Usually for the biggies ya gotta go to Georgia or Florida! :(

No Belay
03-05-2007, 16:44
The Penny Stove looks interesting as well. I dunno if they sell beer in cans that big here! Usually for the biggies ya gotta go to Georgia or Florida! :(

The White Box is made out of 12oz aluminum beer bottles. They sell them in almost every package store here in Paradise. That's the only downside of the stoves design.The actual base is smaller than your typical beer can alky stove.

Fiddler
03-05-2007, 18:55
Another thing I found out (a lotta you know this as well) you can scale any design up or down to fit your needs and/or available materials. Sometimes works better, sometimes don't. But building and trying is at least half of the fun.

Note to RockStar: Don't build more than one stove. You will get addicted.

RockStar
03-05-2007, 20:33
Note to self: Hide the fact that you are already thinking of ways to get stock piles of big and small cans without eating or drinking too much of anything.

I mean...there are so many and the numbers from tests are fine and all but, to see is to believe...and so I must have one of each or at least try. :D Now I can't decide which one to buy so I am gonna try to make one. By the way does anyone know where instructions are to make a stove like the "Whitebox"?

Also what do you guys know about wood stoves? :p

Skidsteer
03-05-2007, 20:49
By the way does anyone know where instructions are to make a stove like the "Whitebox"?

http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

Skidsteer
03-05-2007, 20:50
Also what do you guys know about wood stoves? :p

Oh crap. You're hooked.

zelph
03-05-2007, 21:13
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

I concur with Skidsteer, SuperCat is the way to go, outperforms the Whitbox. Whitebox requires priming pan, has thick walls:eek:

Don"t waste your time on wood stoves.

Pressurized stoves can have a tendency to blow up.

No Belay
03-05-2007, 21:29
But Zelph, which can would you rather consume the contents of, Budweiser 12oz or Tabby's Choice 6oz ? Hmmm... I hve been wanting to try that Tuna Delight.

Skidsteer
03-05-2007, 21:34
But Zelph, which can would you rather consume the contents of, Budweiser 12oz or Tabby's Choice 6oz ? Hmmm... I hve been wanting to try that Tuna Delight.

The Bud aluminum bottle is actually 16 ounces. Tough choice. Pretty much comes down to whether you're a non-drinker or a cat hater. :)

zelph
03-05-2007, 21:53
The Bud aluminum bottle is actually 16 ounces. Tough choice. Pretty much comes down to whether you're a non-drinker or a cat hater. :)

I'm a non-drinker:sun

I prefer the "Snapple" ENERGY aluminum bottle. It has a larger diameter base, larger footprint, more stable.

Make a "SuperCat" Make a "SuperCat" Make a "SuperCat"

"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained"


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fiddler
03-05-2007, 21:55
But Zelph, which can would you rather consume the contents of, Budweiser 12oz or Tabby's Choice 6oz ? Hmmm... I hve been wanting to try that Tuna Delight.
Sometimes you cannot choose. Soooo, you get the Bud good and cold, put the Tuna Delight in a microwave safe bowl with some chopped onion and grated cheddar, zap it about 20 seconds, and spread on lightly toasted whole wheat bread. Now THAT'S a trail feast.

RockStar
03-05-2007, 22:16
LMAO! I love you guys! :) heh

aaroniguana
03-05-2007, 22:33
They're right, it is addicting. I've built about 7 stoves since OTR weekend last summer. Pepsi can, cat, ion, Tinny's design, a Ti esbit wing...

I've built or bought cutting jigs, stretching jigs, pressing tools, pop riveters, nut riveters...

Been cut, punctured, glued, burned, mashed...

I added it all up a minute ago, I would have saved 200 bucks if I'd just bought that gigapower last summer like I initially wanted to. But it was a lot of fun. And I'd do it again.

RockStar
03-05-2007, 22:57
Wow speaking of tools, and just having read how to make the supercat...that reminds me I can put my drimel or drill to even MORE USE. I think my stove is my most favorite piece of gear. when I am exhausted...I get so excited that ol' trusty is gonna make my dinner! I have been GIVEN a pocket Rocket...I saw it in action and it was GOOD but, I just love knowing how much fuel I need and carrying according. I must have one of each! It just seems like the rational thing to do. Some women buy a bunch of shoes and never wear half more than once...Ill make Alcohol Stoves! They will surely match any of my hiking outfits! lol Thanks guys!

Skidsteer
03-05-2007, 23:00
Wow speaking of tools, and just having read how to make the supercat...that reminds me I can put my drimel or drill to even MORE USE. I think my stove is my most favorite piece of gear. when I am exhausted...I get so excited that ol' trusty is gonna make my dinner! I have been GIVEN a pocket Rocket...I saw it in action and it was GOOD but, I just love knowing how much fuel I need and carrying according. I must have one of each! It just seems like the rational thing to do. Some women buy a bunch of shoes and never wear hald more than once...Ill make Alcohol Stoves! They will surely match any of my hiking outfits! lol Thanks guys!

Well, try to put up at least a token struggle so we're not eaten up with guilt....:)

RockStar
03-05-2007, 23:14
You should all be ashamed of yourselves! The bible says "put NO alcohol stove before ME!"

No Belay
03-05-2007, 23:28
Sorry amigo, but it sounds like you may be an Alky holic.

Savor Happy!

Fiddler
03-05-2007, 23:35
RockStar, maybe you should contact the Whiteblaze chapter of the A.S.A. That's the Alcohol Stovaholics Anonymous. I think you're already hooked (or close to it).

RockStar
03-05-2007, 23:57
I already have the shakes just thinkin about it. Can I really be an addict if I haven't built my first stove? I can't wait until my roomy comes home in the morning so I can go get my "fixin's" at walmart. Gonna made me up a batch. Buy me some denatured alcohol. you know do it up right.Lol

attroll
03-06-2007, 02:21
Wow speaking of tools, and just having read how to make the supercat...that reminds me I can put my drimel or drill to even MORE USE. I think my stove is my most favorite piece of gear. when I am exhausted...I get so excited that ol' trusty is gonna make my dinner! I have been GIVEN a pocket Rocket...I saw it in action and it was GOOD but, I just love knowing how much fuel I need and carrying according. I must have one of each! It just seems like the rational thing to do. Some women buy a bunch of shoes and never wear half more than once...Ill make Alcohol Stoves! They will surely match any of my hiking outfits! lol Thanks guys!
The supercat is what I use not too. I use it without the base stand though.

The only tool I used to make the holes was a paper hole punch, the plier type style. It took some preasure but I was able to puch the holes without the hassle of drilling and poking holes.

Heater
03-06-2007, 02:22
The one I bought from Bill was made from a Budweiser aluminum bottle with the paint buffed off. Buy one, take it apart and use it for a pattern. They're simple to make and make great gifts. I try to make six at a time and seem to really enjoy myself after the 3rd bottle although the quality seems to suffer by #6. :confused:

We don't get the Aluminum Btttles down here. Wish we did. :(

RockStar
03-06-2007, 02:29
I was wondering if a reg. hole puncher would work. THANKS! I am gonna get the cat food and feed it to the dog, then make one in the morning. ;)


The supercat is what I use not too. I use it without the base stand though.

The only tool I used to make the holes was a paper hole punch, the plier type style. It took some preasure but I was able to puch the holes without the hassle of drilling and poking holes.

No Belay
03-06-2007, 12:14
We don't get the Aluminum Btttles down here. Wish we did. :(

They sell em around here because it's illeagal to have glass containers on the float streams. They're really a rip off. They come in a 4 pack and cost a $1.25 more than a regular six. PM me and I'll send you a couple (empty of course). It might take awhile because I only drink on every third Tues of the month ( Young Republicans meeting):D

Savor Happy!

RockStar
03-06-2007, 13:28
So I got a stapler as suggested and put my holes in all nice and neat. Only problem is that the instructions call for the holes to be 3/8 and the stapler is making holes 1/4(4/8). So I only get (when using the spacing as advised) 9 holes out of 10 on the bottom row and 11 of the 15-16 in the instructions. So I went with it and tested it out, It burns hot, probably hotter than my pepsi can but, there are still a few orange flames here and there. So I calculated it and the overall amount of openings for the jets is 4 2/3 (thats the 10-16 combo with 3/8 holes) and mine comes to 5 1/4(with the 1/4 holes)

So Im gonna try to reduce the amount of holes by 4...that should take care of the 1 inch and leave only the 5/12 extra.

Im gonna go do that meow. :banana

Fiddler
03-06-2007, 13:58
I was wondering if a reg. hole puncher would work. THANKS! I am gonna get the cat food and feed it to the dog, then make one in the morning. ;)
You don't really need a cat food can, you can use any similar type can. I have used tuna cans, the smaller mushroom cans, vienna sausage cans, small fruit cans, even tried a sardine can (only room for 1 row of holes, didn't work too good). Cans will be disposed of anyway, experiment and have fun.

RockStar
03-06-2007, 14:28
less holes seemed to help. It burned for 9 minutes after I put the pot on. The pot boiled around 2 minutes, thats a rapid boil. Im impressed!

aaroniguana
03-07-2007, 14:01
I settled on Tinny's pressurised sideburner design using two aluminum bottles (Energy drink, I can't stand Bud), a rivet nut, screen door thumb bolt and wrapped it with a strip of old kerosene heater wick to prime. weighs 3/4 ounce and I can stand on it.

One oz of denatured alcohol (and a couple drops on the primer band) gave me a 14 minute burn, with 24 ounces in a Kmart pot rolling boil at 10m 22s. If I could rig a simmer ring I could make a whole box of Mac n cheese without presoaking. Hmmm...

RockStar
03-07-2007, 15:34
Well I went to get my second round of cat food for my dog. And I use my drimmel to make the holes 3/16. I still didn't get as many as the instructions say but, didn't matter b/c I decided to put more holes in the top row half the size of the 3/16. So I cranked her up and got a 3 min rolling boil with 1 oz. It burned for 9 minutes total with 6 minutes boil time total. I am happy with that, as I mostly just boil water anyway. Also I am not using a lid or windscreen for the expir.

Thanks guys for all your enabling! ;)

attroll
03-07-2007, 17:50
Well I went to get my second round of cat food for my dog. And I use my drimmel to make the holes 3/16. I still didn't get as many as the instructions say but, didn't matter b/c I decided to put more holes in the top row half the size of the 3/16. So I cranked her up and got a 3 min rolling boil with 1 oz. It burned for 9 minutes total with 6 minutes boil time total. I am happy with that, as I mostly just boil water anyway. Also I am not using a lid or windscreen for the expir.

Thanks guys for all your enabling! ;)

That is pretty darn good. If you put a lid on it the water will boil a lot faster.

Madmax
03-13-2007, 21:18
Hey !

Here's my homemade stove. Anyone can make it in ½ hour. 86 grams= 3 oz - everything included. It boils 1½ cup, 350 ml cold water in 7 min using 12 grams of alcohol. It does as well take Espit or hot burning tree spots from the fireplace :-)

Happy trails........

Max

Skidsteer
03-13-2007, 21:25
Hey !

Here's my homemade stove. Anyone can make it in ½ hour. 86 grams= 3 oz - everything included. It boils 1½ cup, 350 ml cold water in 7 min using 12 grams of alcohol. It does as well take Espit or hot burning tree spots from the fireplace :-)

Happy trails........

Max

"Everything" means different things to different folks in this racket.

Do you mind listing the components and weights? Trust me, we're interested. :)

Madmax
03-13-2007, 22:04
Skidsteer..

Everything means all you see in the picture, two lightweight alu-cans from the supermarked, previeusly containing burned almonds and the lager one fishballs :-) The smallest little "burner" is from those candlelights and the stakes made of titanium, I bring anyway. The "Gripper" is from the mini Trangria wich I just got tired of didn't provide any shelter for the wind :-) It's not the most "proff" burner, but it's avaiable everywhere. The pot cools so quickly the you can drink from it allmost right away. Otherwise, made a drinking cup from the lowest 3 inches of a juice carton with inside insulation alufolio and fold it to rest inside the pot when not in use :-) Just add a lid after your own thoughts :-) I'm carrying this little kitchen all the way from Sweden to Spain this comming spring till Christmas, together with my WM Caribou bag, Sixmoon Gatewoodcape and my somewhat homemade backpack.
http://www.era-ewv-ferp.com/index.php?page_id=29
Since I live in Scandinavia where weather can be quite unpredictable and harch, even in the middle of summer, I got my Akto for the more demanding trips. But for fun in the lowland, I don't mind a thing :-)
I have as well a more sustainable modified original Trangia, that even take gaz, and made from the same way of principle, cut it down and add your own features.

Sincerely,

Max

sparkysko
03-18-2007, 05:02
I developed my own style for making a whitebox style stove. I've made all the various pepsi stoves, and this is my favorite style because of it's durability. It'll cost more to buy the equipment to make one than it will to buy one from the real Whitebox maker, but this is how I make mine.

You will need:
Dremel w/ cutting wheel or hacksaw.

Metal file (I use a round and a flat bastard file). Grinding wheel would work great too.

Rivet tool (I use 1/8" rivets, try to get rivets shorter than 5/8", it looks ugly otherwise, I used the shortest 1/8" rivets they had at Home Depot, *aluminum*)

Micro drill bits (I think 1/16th bit will work as well, I used a #62-52 or so, if you can, start small and then you can make them bigger later if you like).

Wire wheel or steel wool (Some of the bud bottles have a paint that will not come off well with paint stripper, half of mine worked fine, the other half didn't. Wire wheel is quickest, steel wool will take quite a while, this paint is hefty).

Get aluminum budweiser bottles. Super Walmarts have these as well as 1/4th of the grocery stores I visit. They're blue or red and sold in a 6 pack.

Also you need a ruler and a marker.

Okay, lets begin.
Strip all the paint off the bottle. Mark a line at the bottom of the bottle for 2 1/4" from the bottom. This will be the height of the stove. Try to cut a little above this line to give you some wiggle room. I then take the metal file and file the top down to the line, spinning the bottom piece as I file to make it all even.

Mark a line 3 1/2" from the top of the bottle, you'll want to cut this a little below the line (it's okay if it's too long, you can grind it off later, but if it's too short the pieces will be loose and it's junk, 3 1/2" is almost exactly the size. Alternatively you can cut an inch or two off the bottom of the top piece you have so you have a 'tube' which you can shove the remaining top piece in to draw the and size up.

You'll want to take about an inch off the top of the bottle (the part where the bottle cap came off). I used a cigarette pack laying flat, and put a sharpie on top of it, and used this to mark the line on the top of the bottle. Cut this. File the new 'top' of the bottle to make it even. I use a round file to make the weep holes in the new top, but anything will do to make the weep holes for between the inner and outter walls.

Place the top piece upside down into the bottom piece. It should be tight along the sides and the bottlecap side of the top should not 'bottom out' onto the bottom, if it does you need to file the bottlecap side down a bit more. The goal here is that you can 'squish' the two pieces together and the top part will bottom out in the bottom piece, yet everything will be tight and sealed around the edges.

I then drill 3 holes evenly 1/4" from the top of the stove for the rivets. It's a good idea to try to shake out the crud from the inside of the stove after you got the 1st or 2nd rivet in.

I drill small holes 7/8"-1" from the top at 1 cm intervals. (you can't evenly measure out 1cm on this, about 1cm is great, otherwise, just eyeball it.

Before I use the stove, there are a ton of metal filings in the stove, I try to shake them out before they get stuck inside it forever.

sparkysko
03-18-2007, 05:19
Almost forgot. After you rivet everything together, you have to file down the remaining edge of the top piece until it's flush with the bottom piece. It helps if you rotate it while you do this, as it helps to make everything nice and flat. Make sure to file off the burrs that will form. It seems that the metal kinda folds over a little bit, and hides the seam. I've had many people not be able to identify the location of it. You can make these up to a maximum height of 3 1/2". I don't recommend this height as it takes *forever* to warm up. If your hole sizes are too high up along the sides, it will not provide enough warmth to keep the stove lit if you put something on top of it. I've varied with hole sizes and whatnot and it doesn't seem to make much appreciable difference. I do my boil tests with 2 cups of 40F water, and place my stove on a metal pan (to help prevent stray fires). I can boil 2 cups in 7 minutes. Maybe faster if I don't use a metal pan (it steals heat).

These things are *tough*, I can stand on top of mine (i'm 300lbs). They take a fair amount of abuse, incredibly strong on all of the places.

You will get tons of aluminum dust everywhere. I always get *alot* of it in my nose and presumably my lungs as well, even when it doesn't seem like I breathed any in. (Nasty when you go to blow your nose). According to Wikipedia there is no definitive link with alzheimers and aluminum, but you might want to wear a dust mask.

Egads
03-18-2007, 08:54
Stovemaking addictions are worse than hammocking addictions.

sparkysko
03-19-2007, 04:42
Stovemaking addictions are worse than hammocking addictions.

I happen to have both. Hey, it's cheaper than crack.