View Full Version : Kmart Grease Pot Supportscreen DIY
Here's how to make a windscreen pot support for a Kmart Grease Pot.
First, here are some photos of what it looks like and the method of holding it closed.
First photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot001.jpg)
Second photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot002.jpg)
Third photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot003.jpg)
The next few photos are of the drawing that I made in order to make a template which in turn I put onto a sheet of aluminum flashing that needs to be 10 inches wide by 26 inches long. I then traced around the pattern and then cut the alluminum flashing. I added an extra inch to the length of mine to overlap and secure the ends. The photos show the exact sizes.
I chose the dimensions that would give me the height of the stand by using the dimensions of the burner( 1 1/2 inch high) and then chose to have a 2 inch air space between top of burner and the bottom of the pot. The pot is 3 inches high. Those dimensions added together is what determins the height of the potstand, which comes out to 6 1/2 inches high.
You can design your own custom stand to fit whatever pot you have that has a lip around the top of it. Follow the above format.
1st photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartpot001.jpg)
2nd photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartpot002.jpg)
3rd photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartpot004.jpg)
4th photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartpot004.jpg)
Materials needed::
1 sheet poster board 22 x 28 available at Kmart
1 piece of wood 3/4" x 3/4" x 26" to be used to draw 2 arcs (one will be a 15 1/8" inch radius and the other will be a 21 5/8" radius) Use 2 finishing nails that are 2 inches long, pund them in or put them into a cordless drill and drill them in. Put the nail in the chuck just as you would a drill bit, and drill it through the center of the stick in the appropriate place according to the dimensions given.
1 tape measure or yardstick
1 pair sheet metal cutters
1 piece aluminum flashing material 10" x 26"
Drill and drill bit for your hole preference air in and out and closure
Look at the drawings whenever in doubt.
The letters "A" and "B" give dimensions for diameter of pot under it's extended rim(5 3/8") and the diameter of the base(7 3/4") of the pot holder (this dimension I chose. I wanted it to be 1 1/4 inches larger on each side of the pot to give good stability and room at the top for exhaust holes to be away from sides of pot)
Draw a verticle line thru the center of poster board(short dimension). Where it touches the bottom of the board is where you start your measurements. First the hight of your burner, then the air space you want between top of burner and bottom of pot and then the height of your pot.
In my drawing you can see the dimensions given for the diameter of potstand base and pot. Look to see where the arrows point to. Starting at the bottom where letter "B" points to, draw a line up through the point shown by letter "A" and extend it on up till it crosses over the center line at the top of drawing. That pivot point is marked "X" and also with red circle
The red lines show the arcs to be drawn. 15 1/8" radius and 21 5/8" radius
"X" marks the spot where it crosses over the center line. That is where your arcs are drawn from, pivot point. The first arc to draw is 15 1/8 inches from that pivot point to the top of the pot (shown by small red circle on top of pot)
The second arc is 21 5/8" from pivot point to bottom of BURNER (shown by red circle)
The circumfrence of the 5 3/8 pot diameter is 16 7/8"
The circumfrence of the 7 3/4" potstand base is 24 3/8"
The circumfrence of a circle is found by multiplying the diameter by 3.14
Next thing to do is mark off in one inch increments on the large arc (24 3/8") Begining from the centerline at the base of the burner mark off 12 3/16 inches to the right. Now go back to the centerline and mark off 12 3/16" to the left. These 1" increments are made on the arc line(reminder)
Now draw a line from the 12 3/16" mark all the way up to the pivot point(X marks the spot, also circled in red at the top of drawing). Now do the same for the other side of the arc. Where those lines cross over the smaller arc(15 1/8" radius) shows where your cut lines will be to determine the length of the potstand. At this point you can add an additional inch or so to its length for overlapping when assembling.
Cut the shape out of the posterboard, curl it around your pot and make sure it fits before you transfere the shape to your flashing materal.
I hope the photos explain better than my instructions.
I'm not satisfyed with the fastening system I used on my initial stand. Your input to different systems would be appreciated by all. Thank You
If you see any errors in my instructions please send me a private message and also post it for all to see incase I'm not here fast enough to make the change. Thank You
If all efforts fail and would still like to make your own, I can send you a paper copy to make a rigid pattern using posterboard. At least 1 week has to pass by before I honor that offer, that'll give you time to try:banana
zelph = "I'm not satisfyed with the fastening system I used on my initial stand. Your input to different systems would be appreciated by all. Thank You"
Hey Zelph - How about trying a small binder clip? I just received my StarLyte stove today (THANK YOU!!!) with it's windscreen. When I attach a small binder clip upside down (that is, at the bottom where it would sit in the dirt or on the picnic table), it holds perfectly and without causing a noticeable angle or lean to the surface the pot would rest on.
I put your clip fastener on the postal scale but it didn't register. Nor did the small binder clip.
Good luck. And thanks again for the amazingly small and light stove! Can't wait to play with it this weekend.:D
Laura
Neat windscreen. I was wondering how to make a cone shaped windscreen.
doodah man
03-09-2007, 16:35
I'm not satisfyed with the fastening system I used on my initial stand. Your input to different systems would be appreciated by all. Thank You
Hey Zelph,
One idea I have is to use a couple of those aluminum screw posts used to hold punched paper sheets togeather (made by Charles Leonard, Inc). They are available in various lengths as short as 1/4". If you need a few, I have a bunch and can send you some... doodah-man
zelph = "I'm not satisfyed with the fastening system I used on my initial stand. Your input to different systems would be appreciated by all. Thank You"
Hey Zelph - How about trying a small binder clip? I just received my StarLyte stove today (THANK YOU!!!) with it's windscreen. When I attach a small binder clip upside down (that is, at the bottom where it would sit in the dirt or on the picnic table), it holds perfectly and without causing a noticeable angle or lean to the surface the pot would rest on.
I put your clip fastener on the postal scale but it didn't register. Nor did the small binder clip.
Good luck. And thanks again for the amazingly small and light stove! Can't wait to play with it this weekend.:D
Laura
That was fast delivery, glad you got for the weekend and have fun trying it out. I'll give your idea a try this weekend.
Doo Dah Man Hey
Zelph,
One idea I have is to use a couple of those aluminum screw posts used to hold punched paper sheets togeather (made by Charles Leonard, Inc). They are available in various lengths as short as 1/4". If you need a few, I have a bunch and can send you some... doodah-man
Your stove is in the mail today!!!!! I'll try the posts this weekend if I can find them. I think they sell em at Ace Hardware.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
While I was daydreaming of nice weather and stoves:banana I had an idea, went to the hardware store and bought some of these HOLE PLUGS. They are made of steel and are heavily nickle plated.
Photo of HOLE PLUGS (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot010.jpg)Note!!!! Rock head side to side to get special effects:banana
Next photo shows inserted into potstand (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot009.jpg)
This one shows same, inserted in potstand (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot008.jpg)
This one shows them used on the "StarLyte" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot005.jpg)
Also on the "StarLyte" backside view (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/kmartgrspot004.jpg)
First thoughts are positive. I'm thinking of making them part of the "StarLyte" stove. When the potstand is pulled apart by the little part sticking out, the plugs remain fastened to the stand. Very very nice, I like it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do I get a starlyte stove?
How do I get a starlyte stove?
If you're close enough, I'll arm wrestle you for one. If not, go to this link for info on getting one.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21273
If you're close enough, I'll arm wrestle you for one. If not, go to this link for info on getting one.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21273
How does the adjustabel pot stand work?
Dances with Mice
03-10-2007, 12:22
I'm not satisfyed with the fastening system I used on my initial stand. Your input to different systems would be appreciated by all.Would a crease fold (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5836&c=searchresults&searchid=7042)work? No extra parts needed.
Then just a couple picture hanging wires for a built-in potstand (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5831&catid=searchresults&searchid=7042) and it'd look sorta familiar (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15528&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=1).
Are those wires heat resistant? All the wires I use get brittle quick.
Would a crease fold (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5836&c=searchresults&searchid=7042)work? No extra parts needed.
Then just a couple picture hanging wires for a built-in potstand (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5831&catid=searchresults&searchid=7042) and it'd look sorta familiar (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15528&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=1).
I don't think the crease fold would work unless it locked like the caldera cone shaped one.
Looking for somethng everone can make easy and have fewest parts.
Pest--- the adjusable potstand--- You form it into the desired diameter for your pot bottom and then clip it with the furnished stainless steel clip.
Dances with Mice
03-10-2007, 15:27
Are those wires heat resistant? All the wires I use get brittle quick.The one shown being assembled in my gallery completed a 9-month thru-hike with 2 wire changes. The problem reported was rust. So with daily use you'd go about 3 months before having to buy another dollar's worth of picture hanging wire. And just to be clear - I meant that the wires were changed two times. Both of them.
The one I have now is going strong on its second year of overnighters.
Dances with Mice
03-10-2007, 15:37
I don't think the crease fold would work unless it locked like the caldera cone shaped one.Why does it have to lock? The creased fold joint gets stronger with more weight applied to it as long as the force is compressive. If the force is expansive, use single folds on each end and hook them together.
It's easy to check. Take out all joiners and place the pot on the windscreen. Do the edges move apart or together? If together you're golden. If they move apart then you simply make one fold on each end and hook them together.
If the top edge moves together and the bottom edge moves apart then you're screwed and need to use joiners.
Dances with Mice
03-10-2007, 15:41
And someone needs to explain the infatuation with the conical "caldera". Near as I can tell a cylinderical shape would perform exactly the same and is much easier to fabricate.
I guess I'm in the "don't get it" camp. Is it just a coolness factor, or what?
Zelph:
Outstanding geometry!
Here are a few pictures of another fastening method that is easy DIY.
The cone must overlap two or so inches to space the 3/32" fastener holes a working distance apart. The wire in the pictures is 1/16" welding rod I had laying around. A straightened large paper clip works too. If the holes were sized right, a spare tent stake would work. In a pinch, you could 'stitch' the cone together with tent stakes through the 1/2" vent holes top and bottom.
The cones pictured were designed with an XL spreadsheet, TurboCAD and templates printed on plain paper. If I hadn't had those resources, I would have done exactly what you did!!! Again, good work.
Wire 'fastener':
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0600.JPG
Close-up of wire fastener:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0601.JPG
Inside close-up of wire fastener:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0602.JPG
More cones:http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG
XL spreadsheet for calculating dimension (sorry about picture quality):
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/ConeXL.JPG
Skidsteer
03-10-2007, 16:35
And someone needs to explain the infatuation with the conical "caldera". Near as I can tell a cylinderical shape would perform exactly the same and is much easier to fabricate.
I guess I'm in the "don't get it" camp. Is it just a coolness factor, or what?
It's for folks who've spent years buying the most compressible gear only to realize that their pack has too much leftover space. So they add an item with sharp edges that's awkward to store and prone to spring open violently.
It's a brilliant scheme to justify buying a smaller pack.
And someone needs to explain the infatuation with the conical "caldera". Near as I can tell a cylinderical shape would perform exactly the same and is much easier to fabricate.
I guess I'm in the "don't get it" camp. Is it just a coolness factor, or what?
Look at this report from Hanna_hangar:
I am so in love with this stove. It is truly a JetBoil of the Alkys Stove!!!!
3 cups of water to a rolling BOIL on only 15 ml yep thats right just 1/2 ounce of alcohol!!!!!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=325454&postcount=23
3 cups boiled using 1/2 ounce fuel. That is what cought my interest and is why I made one for the "TwiLyte" stove. Wanted to see if would grab more heat. Another fact of interest is windscreen and potstand combined.
This photo furnished by lance shows how heat is concentrated (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/file...3/IMG_0573.JPG)right where the pot is supported. Nice photos Lance and good idea how to fasten.http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/file...3/IMG_0573.JPG (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG)
DWM---
Why does it have to lock? The creased fold joint gets stronger with more weight applied to it as long as the force is compressive. If the force is expansive, use single folds on each end and hook them together.
The material I used in this one has alot of spring back/expansive pressure. Being cone shaped makes it act a whole lot different than just a cylinder. The use of single folds on each end should work.
When you get the time make one of these just for the heck of it to see what I'm refering to.
Lance----Why so many stoves? Give us some pros and cons on this type of setup. Thanks for sharing your information.
My thoughts were to eventually make it in two pieces, so it could store flat.
I have not tested this thing yet with the grease pot. The pot fits, the cone stands up and is stable like a rock and it's bulky.
I'd like to be able to try every stove design out there to see for myself how they work and how much bull is associated with the designs.
Dances with Mice
03-11-2007, 12:03
3 cups boiled using 1/2 ounce fuel. That is what cought my interest and is why I made one for the "TwiLyte" stove. Wanted to see if would grab more heat. Another fact of interest is windscreen and potstand combined. ....
I'd like to be able to try every stove design out there to see for myself how they work and how much bull is associated with the designs.
Using a metal shield to guide and concentrate the heat of the stove and lowering the pot into the shield (or raising the shield around the pot, same difference) isn't a new idea. (http://www.trangia.se/english/2922.27_series.html) Even Backpacker magazine described a combination windscreen / pot support / heat exchanger almost five years ago (http://www.backpacker.com/gear/article/0,1023,4566,00.html). The combination is tried and true. What I don't get is why increasing the bottom diameter by a couple of inches would make any difference. Below the stove the incoming air doesn't care, above the stove the hot gasses are following the same path around the pot. It still appears to me that ease of manufacture and storage are being traded for style points.
I'm not knocking the caldera, I think it's a great design. I'm just wondering why a hassle factor (conical shape) is being added to a simple design.
Two Speed
03-11-2007, 12:17
. . . It's a brilliant scheme to justify buying a smaller pack.That's bad because . . . ? And just how do you suggest that I accumulate enough gear to equip a Boy Scout troop if this sort of excuse isn't acceptable? Hmmm? Hmmm?
Using a metal shield to guide and concentrate the heat of the stove and lowering the pot into the shield (or raising the shield around the pot, same difference) isn't a new ideaAre you trying to suggest that some of these inovations are recycled ideas? You wouldn't be insinuating that the flux ring on a JetBoil is really a heat exchanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_exchanger), are you? Take thyself and your credit card to REI and don't return until the card is maxed out!
Dances with Mice
03-11-2007, 13:18
Are you trying to suggest that some of these inovations are recycled ideas? You wouldn't be insinuating that the flux ring on a JetBoil is really a heat exchanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_exchanger), are you? I was getting there but I didn't want to go all engineer at once. Now that you've opened the door ... what I haven't seen on these stove threads, maybe I missed it, is a Kempner-Trego type analysis of stove design factors.
Our basic problem, or premise, is that we want to transfer the energy in our fuel to our water by converting chemical energy to heat.
Identify influencing factors: Stove, windscreen, pot, and environment (ambient temperatures and wind). Any more?
Identify inefficiencies: Heating the ground, stove, windscreen, pot, and hot air escaping the system are all wasted energies. In a perfect system the water would boil but the pot, stove, ground, and windscreen would all be at their initial temperatures and no hot gases would escape.
Then brainstorm ways to minimize the heat not transferred to water.
For example thin pots are more efficient than thick pots. But who would attempt to sand down the bottom of a Heiney can? What sort of fanatic would go to that extreme? No sane person would consider doing that.
More heat would be transferred to the water if the interior bottom of the pot was finned, giving more metal-water contact. I haven't seen anyone try that, but a coiled strip of aluminum on the bottom of the pot might work.
And so on. We could probably generate a hundred or more ideas in an hour.
Two Speed
03-11-2007, 13:38
. . . We could probably generate a hundred or more ideas in an hour.Original ideas, or can I reheat* some old ones?
*any of my fellow enginerds catch that thermodynamic reference/pun?
Skidsteer
03-11-2007, 15:24
...But who would attempt to sand down the bottom of a Heiney can? What sort of fanatic would go to that extreme? No sane person would consider doing that....
I suspect alcohol played a part.
What weirded me out was he actually timed the sanding process on a 'sacrifice can' to make sure he didn't remove too much metal on future Heinie can projects.
He needs to consider decaffeinated.
Two Speed
03-11-2007, 16:25
. . . He needs to consider decaffeinated.NOOOoooooooo!!!
Dances with Mice
03-11-2007, 16:34
I suspect alcohol played a part.I see. I always thought it was easier to open the can by pulling that little tab on the other end. But if your way worked, it worked.
Look at this report from Hanna_hangar: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=325454&postcount=23
3 cups boiled using 1/2 ounce fuel. That is what cought my interest and is why I made one for the "TwiLyte" stove. Wanted to see if would grab more heat. Another fact of interest is windscreen and potstand combined.
.
I had to come back to this information furnished by HH.
3 cups water boiled with 1/2 ounce of fuel.
Have any of you heard of this using an alcohol stove?
That's what makes this one piece potstand/windscreen interesting.
She also states that it rolles up and fits into a cup from ?
3 cups boiled with 1/2 ounce fuel
Dances with Mice
03-11-2007, 23:16
I had to come back to this information furnished by HH.It appears to me that you are saying you just want to copy the design and you don't care why it works. Is that right?
Original ideas, or can I reheat* some old ones?
*any of my fellow enginerds catch that thermodynamic reference/pun?
I like old ideas!!!
Skidsteer inspired me to use the cone shaped windscreen/potstand to increase the ability of the heinekin pot to boil 2 cups of water In this post made not too long ago he said he was going to try it out. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=273557&postcount=25)
I like using the ideas that come from the posts made in this forum. I'm here to learn and want to find out how things work. That's why I'm here. I like sharing my ideas. Brainstorming is what it's all about. Your fellow enginerd has the right idea about brainstorming.
Your link to heat exchanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_exchanger), was very informative. I believe the cone shaped pot stand is exchanging heat where it encircles the pot and has physical contact with it. If you look at the photo provided by Lancephoto provided by Lance (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG)it shows the discoloring caused by heat at the top of the cone, shows that the metal is realy realy hot up there. I believe it's possible that some of that heat is being transfered to the pot more so than a straight up design windscreen where the heat goes up and out and less is transfered to the pot.
VDances with MiceQuote:
Originally Posted by zelph http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=337272#post337272)
I had to come back to this information furnished by HH.
It appears to me that you are saying you just want to copy the design and you don't care why it works. Is that right?
Dances With Mice!!!!! I disagree 100 percent. I do agree that you are an Enginerd(inserbananahere) thats trying to push buttons.
Two Speed
03-12-2007, 12:09
Hey, hey, hey! Don't leave me out of the "enginerd-button-pushing" classification.
Dances with Mice
03-12-2007, 12:17
Dances With Mice!!!!! I disagree 100 percent. Cool! Your last post to me was just a copy of a previous post, I should have waited until you had time to elaborate. No hard feelings? Remember, pushing buttons is in our job descriptions.
If you look at the photo provided by Lancephoto provided by Lance (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG)it shows the discoloring caused by heat at the top of the cone, shows that the metal is realy realy hot up there. I believe it's possible that some of that heat is being transfered to the pot more so than a straight up design windscreen where the heat goes up and out and less is transfered to the pot.This was my prototype, photo taken in 2004 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15528&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=7). Subsequent windscreens have been made much tighter. And the pot has gotten smaller. Notice the burn pattern?
Lance----Why so many stoves? Give us some pros and cons on this type of setup. Thanks for sharing your information.
Re: Why so many stoves?
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG
I was curious which configuration worked best with a standard Pepsi can stove and K-Mart grease pot. Cone height made the biggest consistent difference. Base diameter made a smaller difference and hole placement and quantity had mixed results.
5.5" high x 7.5" base diameter worked best.
5.5" high x 7.0" base diameter was next.
6.5" high x 7.5" base diameter was worst.
6.0" high x 7.5" base diameter was somewhere in the middle.
Fuel to bring 2 cups of cold tap water to a rolling boil was consistently less than 1/2 fluid ounce (kitchen conditions).
Other stove/pot combinations might be different.
The pot fits, the cone stands up and is stable like a rock and it's bulky.
Ditto on stability.
Re: bulk
After a few burns, the cone takes on a 'temper'. It is springier, more resilient and less malleable. It can be rolled up quite small without deforming. The following pictures show a cone rolled up.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0603.JPG
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0604.JPG
Hike on!
Skidsteer
03-12-2007, 17:49
I like old ideas!!!
Skidsteer inspired me to use the cone shaped windscreen/potstand to increase the ability of the heinekin pot to boil 2 cups of water In this post made not too long ago he said he was going to try it out. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=273557&postcount=25)
Oh that.
I found a way to get the two cup boil that decreased the weight of the system instead.
Thanks Lance, that was really informative. Nice holes, what was used to punch them? They look 1/2 inch.
Skids, how did your cone turn out or did'nt it? And what got you the 2 cup boil, a wick stove;) ? The one you just made?
DWM----All is Well:)
Skidsteer
03-12-2007, 21:23
Skids, how did your cone turn out or did'nt it? And what got you the 2 cup boil, a wick stove;) ? The one you just made?
DWM----All is Well:)
I lost interest in building the cone once I got the 2 cup boil, although I got past the math stage.
I used a plain, no frills two inch tealight tin, a two inch wire cup brush, and a stop watch.
Basically, I cheated. :D
The Turbo Tea-Lite I just built got a 2 cup boil in an unmodified Heineken pot.
Nice holes, what was used to punch them? They look 1/2 inch.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0600.JPG
Yes they are 1/2"! I used a hole punch found at Harbor Freight. About $25. Much easier and cleaner than drilling holes with a step bit. I mount it in a bench vise for one-handed use.
Here is a picture:
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0592.JPG
-Lance
Thanks Lance, I'll have to go check it out. My 1/2 punch and die is getting tired from punching stainless steel.
If I recall their stuff is made in china and may not last as long as the Roper Whitney that I'm currently using,
Thanks Again for your input Lance.
Anyone made one of these yet using the instructions given?
Anything I need to change?
rjprince
04-10-2007, 19:45
...I believe the cone shaped pot stand is exchanging heat where it encircles the pot and has physical contact with it. If you look at the photo provided by Lancephoto provided by Lance (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/4/3/IMG_0573.JPG)it shows the discoloring caused by heat at the top of the cone, shows that the metal is realy realy hot up there. I believe it's possible that some of that heat is being transfered to the pot more so than a straight up design windscreen where the heat goes up and out and less is transfered to the pot.
Actually the discoloration is caused because the flashing material used was coated with an anti-oxidation material. If you use flashing that is not coated, it will have that burned appearance. And, yes, it does get very hot. In high winds I have melted a few windscreens. The extra air flow makes the stove burn hotter and the aluminum flashing will deform from the intense heat and it develops very brittle and non-maleable properties...
It can be hard to find the non-coated flashing. If you take the tip of craft knife and scrape a very small section, the coated kind will give off a grey to amber colored powder. The non-coated yields shiny aluminum flakes. The coated kind is far more common... It also smells very bad when the coating burns. The non-coated does not.
Disposable
04-13-2007, 22:24
Sorry to get in on this so late, but that last post is what got me going on conical windscreens. I figured they worked better if they were close to the pot sides so that more of the flame would be in contact with the pot, but I melted, or burned clean thru, several screens. And I couldn't figure out just why, since they might work fine half a dozen times before going. My conical screens are about 2 inches bigger at the bottom than the top just to keep them away from the stove flame, but still they can keep the heat close to the pot side as it moves up, and I made them about as tall as the pot on the stove to help that. I haven't tried one as a pot support yet. They are bulky, but I carry a 24 ounce plastic cup and found that the cone rolls very nicely into that for protection. My next one will be an inch shorter to be completely within that cup or within my Heine pot.
Something to consider!!!
I know some of you are interested in a kmart pot that has a concave bottom to enhance heat retention.
Here is how to make one: 1. fill a well used kmart pot with water and freeze it.
2. Thaw it and pitch the water. The bottom is now convex.
3. Turn it over, place your thumbs on the outer edge of bottom and start pressing the bottom inward. Keep going all the way around the bottom like that working your way in towards the center. Take your time, don't rush it.
This pot is concaved 9/16 of an inch deep (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/concavepot002.jpg)
This is the same pot different shot (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/concavepot001.jpg)
Disposable--Sorry to get in on this so late, but that last post is what got me going on conical windscreens. I figured they worked better if they were close to the pot sides so that more of the flame would be in contact with the pot, but I melted, or burned clean thru, several screens. And I couldn't figure out just why, since they might work fine half a dozen times before going. My conical screens are about 2 inches bigger at the bottom than the top just to keep them away from the stove flame, but still they can keep the heat close to the pot side as it moves up, and I made them about as tall as the pot on the stove to help that. I haven't tried one as a pot support yet. They are bulky, but I carry a 24 ounce plastic cup and found that the cone rolls very nicely into that for protection. My next one will be an inch shorter to be completely within that cup or within my Heine pot.
Sounds like you're getting close to making it work. If at first we don't succeed, we try again and again if necessary. Keep up the good work. Keep us updated.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I had the idea to use a tried and true closure design. It works for oriental food carry out container, why not the Caldera.
This was my first,fast cut, prototype. No extra parts to loose.
It works. Works good. Just for the heck of it!!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tool064-1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tool064-1.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests032.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests032.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests033.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests033.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests034.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests034.jpg)
zelph more toys for you here: http://www.mogogear.com/go_torch.html check out the tripods , and if you want some --titanium foil-- here : http://www.titaniumgoat.com/products.html
Anyone made one of these yet using the instructions given?
Anything I need to change?
instructions are fine...
here's my version 5 or 6.
need to play with this again... i'm not seeing a huge improvement when using a starlyte.
http://lh6.google.com/mike.beganyi/R1B10S6I3UI/AAAAAAAADic/rEyihdw9G6s/s800/IMG_4297.JPG
previous cone is designed for a snowpeak 700 pot. i think its too tall... haven't spent much time tuning it as i've been working on this concept:
http://lh3.google.com/mike.beganyi/R1OFxy6I3XI/AAAAAAAADjk/EcW1t3DZNck/s800/IMG_4302.JPG
I really like the keyhole connection/closure. Absolutely marvelous.
I suggest eliminating the holes in the corrugations that extend outward from the pot. It might reduce the chimney effect that is taking away heat more quickly.
Hang in there you'll make it work;)
I really like the keyhole connection/closure. Absolutely marvelous.
I suggest eliminating the holes in the corrugations that extend outward from the pot. It might reduce the chimney effect that is taking away heat more quickly.
Hang in there you'll make it work;)
hmmm. i'll block those off with some scrap and see what happens.
definitely lots of heat coming up the sides, which is nice.
it is working really fast with a pressurized stove - sounds like a jet boil. not so good with a starlyte. maybe shaved 30 sec off the burn time... but i don't really have a good baseline -its really cold here - and my experience with alky stoves is limited - so i'm not sure what to expect when fuel, stove, water, and windscreen is cold.
went back and searched for heat exchangers... seems sgt. rock thinks they are a waste with an alkly stove based on the added weight. i'm not seeing any huge benefits yet. i'll have to try an ion in there and see how it works.
i use bubble wrap foil (mylar?) insulation under the stoves, cut to the size of the screen. bounces lots of heat around - so i'm sure my stoves are running hot, maybe too hot.
hmmm. i'll block those off with some scrap and see what happens.
definitely lots of heat coming up the sides, which is nice.
it is working really fast with a pressurized stove - sounds like a jet boil. not so good with a starlyte. maybe shaved 30 sec off the burn time... but i don't really have a good baseline -its really cold here - and my experience with alky stoves is limited - so i'm not sure what to expect when fuel, stove, water, and windscreen is cold.
went back and searched for heat exchangers... seems sgt. rock thinks they are a waste with an alkly stove based on the added weight. i'm not seeing any huge benefits yet. i'll have to try an ion in there and see how it works.
i use bubble wrap foil (mylar?) insulation under the stoves, cut to the size of the screen. bounces lots of heat around - so i'm sure my stoves are running hot, maybe too hot.
Try the Ion, burns cool and long. Use the original cone, no corrugations. Have patience!!! Have fun!!!!!
While doing some cleaning in my garage I came across this stainless steel hood that's made to fit all candle style lanterns of the type shown in one of the photos. The hood reflects the candles light downward.
The way it fastens to gether might give some of you an idea to incorporate the fastening system into a 2 piece cone pot support/windscreen.
Side view showing
undercut of the
brass pin/pad
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod009.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod009.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod007.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod007.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod006.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod006.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod005.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod005.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod004.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod004.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod003.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod003.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/th_conefasteningmethod002.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/conefasteningmethod002.jpg)
.
Something to consider!!!
I know some of you are interested in a kmart pot that has a concave bottom to enhance heat retention.
Here is how to make one: 1. fill a well used kmart pot with water and freeze it.
2. Thaw it and pitch the water. The bottom is now convex.
3. Turn it over, place your thumbs on the outer edge of bottom and start pressing the bottom inward. Keep going all the way around the bottom like that working your way in towards the center. Take your time, don't rush it.
This pot is concaved 9/16 of an inch deep (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/concavepot002.jpg)
This is the same pot different shot (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/concavepot001.jpg)
Brilliantly simple. So! How does much faster / more efficient is the pot after you concave it?
I had the idea to use a tried and true closure design. It works for oriental food carry out container, why not the Caldera.
This was my first,fast cut, prototype. No extra parts to loose.
It works. Works good. Just for the heck of it!!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tool064-1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tool064-1.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests032.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests032.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests033.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests033.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/th_tests034.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/sub%20one/tests034.jpg)
Liking the ideas on this thread. :)
This is great. When used on a cone the weight of the pot will further hold it in place.
Requires no extra pins or parts.
Simple to use.
Fairly material efficient
Airtight
lays flat, roles flat tight (as opposed to the folded techniques used by Trail Designs for their caldera cones)
Might want to actualy use two tabs for taller cones or thinner material so it doesn't splay at the top. Depends I guess on how the lip of the pot is rolled. Some buts merely splay outward, some have an actual roll that acts as a ridge firmly holding the cone.
p.s. I find it funny how thread are hit or miss on this forum. Some are just useless but somewhat humerous lighthearted banter with little actual useful information. Then I find threads like this with a half dozen or more great ideas.
Would a crease fold (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5836&c=searchresults&searchid=7042)work? No extra parts needed.
Then just a couple picture hanging wires for a built-in potstand (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5831&catid=searchresults&searchid=7042) and it'd look sorta familiar (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15528&catid=newimages&cutoffdate=1).
None of these links seem to work. Do you have some other link. Can't tell what you're talking about by "crease fold"
thanks!
None of these links seem to work. Do you have some other link. Can't tell what you're talking about by "crease fold"
thanks!
Where did the links go, I can't see them either.
Check out this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VerP7-aiEBw
2Questions hang out on hammock forums. He uses a flat fold connection.
Dances with Mice, I admit I haven't read the entire thread, yet.
Did anyone mention pot stability?
I feel very strongly about that. Have your cooking pot tip over, losing your hot meal after a long day in the mountains. Now only the hot water, now that I like "freezer bag cooking". Still, it is a "big deal".
I like the Caldera Cone concept because it combines stove, windscreen and pot in a stable configuration for the pot. I do not like that particular alcohol stove. I do not like preheating the stove. I do not like the fact, apparently, optimum pot to stove height was not thoroughly addressed. Maybe it has been.
I like titanium sheeting better, because it gets easier to roll-up and stow.
I especially like the Caldera Cone, because it was the first "integrated system" I know of, except for the JetBoil, and I have been backpacking over 55 years.
I greatly admire good "industrial design" principles.
That is why I purchased a Zelph MountainLyte "Super Stove".
There is a Caldera Clone thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50705&highlight=caldera+clone), here, and captain paranoia has a software you may use to select your pot lip diameter, your stove height, and your stove and even use titanium sheeting, if you like.
The fact is, Zelph sent me a conical windscreen, held with a big long "paperclip" that works just fine for the rolled out edge "grease" pot he sent me that works just fine.
A big long "bobby pin" would probably work, just as well.
By the way, I cut aluminum sheeting and titanium foil using the Fiskars-type "titanium" sissors I picked up at the local Safeway store.
By the way, also, the problem with heat-enchanger fins is that it "cools" faster, as well.
I leave my JetBoil "pot" in place, to have the residual heat of the burner keep it hot longer. If I use my heat-exchanger JetBoil saute pan, I transfer the food to the plastic cover for the bottom of the pan to keep the food hot longer.
Here is a thread that shows the conical windscreen held with a paper clip. tis setup is just as good if not better than the Caldera Cone system. this windscreen rolls up really nice and fits in the kmart grease pot. The design was formulated using the method shown in this thread. The grease pot sits directly on the modified StarLyte stove. When placed on a rough surface, ground or shelter floor, this setup won't tip over. The angle of the windscreen prevents tip over.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56087&highlight=zmart
That is the setup I have, right now.
Here is how I roll-up the cone for the backpack.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8176/wrapc.png
I use a sandwich bag, not a ziploc. I use a girl's "pony tail" soft wrap.
No sharp edges. The soot does not get inside my Grease Pot.
That is the setup I have, right now.
No sharp edges. The soot does not get inside my Grease Pot.
How are coming along on making one out of titanium?
LIhikers
04-19-2010, 13:04
The K-mart grease pot comes with a strainer that rests inside the top of the pot.
Has anyone ever tried making it into a fry pan?
I've got any idea on how to do it that would involve a circle of sheet metal and some small countersunk rivets, but doubt I'll get around to trying it anytime soon.
No, but there has been some discussion of removing the rolled edge, having three short legs at the outside edge, and having two wire-bail handles to lift out steamed clams or what you can find to cook at the inter-tidal zone.
Me? I would rather deep-fry fritters in a Grease Pot.
Zelph, why do you think cutting Ti-Goat titanium foil will be a special problem? His website says it is easy to cut with sissors, if difficult to punch holes. I figure I can use Fiskars-type "titanium" sissors and for a hole-punch, the punch for setting a grommet.
see: BPL forum, search "titanium" for what works
I haven't done it, because I am holding off my order until I work out the conical-windscreens for the backpacking stove cooking pots I have ..using less expensive material.
That is the setup I have, right now.
Here is how I roll-up the cone for the backpack.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8176/wrapc.png
I use a sandwich bag, not a ziploc. I use a girl's "pony tail" soft wrap.
No sharp edges. The soot does not get inside my Grease Pot.
I know a lot of people like Caldera Cones (and all other variations) but they're just too darn bulky to pack. Being able to fit everything nicely inside your cook pot is a whole lot easier.
I know a lot of people like Caldera Cones (and all other variations) but they're just too darn bulky to pack. Being able to fit everything nicely inside your cook pot is a whole lot easier.
The ZMart cook kit is a variation and fits inside the cook pot.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56087&highlight=zmart
This (I have illustrated) sits inside my Grease Pot.
Those conical windscreens are an excellent design concept. If you don't like the original, make your own.
WhiteBlaze thread have all the "how-to" information to make a custom conical windscreen for any favorite backpacking cooking pot.
My avatar photo, over at bplite, has my all-time favorite backpacking cooking pot, this conical windscreen and two zElph Super Stoves.
I think Zelph may never forgive me, for changing his name here.
I am feeling a little mischevious!
Maybe I just like a wider opening on a cookpot, but I wrapped the windscreen around the fuel bottle long before I had a Caldera Cone. I still think that is the best place for a sooty windscreen. Besides, rolling it around the fuel bottle keeps the windscreen smooth (not deformed).
This windscreen works fine for my Vargo Titanium Sierra Cup 750 and for my Zmart Grease Pot, and rolls up and fits inside. I have to admit: the aluminum Zmart Grease Pot heats faster than titanium.
Seriously, get aluminum flashing your local hardware store, a pair if Fiskars-type sissors and follow the instruction, and use the measurements off your favorite backpacking cooking pot and favorite stove, get the ventilation holes right and use that for a pattern for titanium foil (rolls up nicer, after burned-in a few times) or use the aluminum conical windscreen you have made.
As far as I am concerned, after matching the backpacking cooking pot to the backpacking cooking stove, the windscreen is the most important component.
My favorite backpacking cooking pot: Vargo Titanium Sierra Cup 750, Snow Peak Titanium Sierra Cup, zMart Grease Pot, GSI Halulite Minimalist, MBD DBC. The first two are my all-time favorites. The others are "contenders" for first and second place. I even have a GSI Halulite Ketalite I really like a lot.
I like best having a short and wide cooking pot. That is the form-factor that fills the top three places for backpacker cooking pots, for me.
I can do real cooking in the Vargo Sierra Cup 750 (it is huge, has sloped sides and has a lid). If it were quickly heating and even-heating GSI Halulite, that would be the most perfect for the most versatile backpacking cuisine. If not the most lightweight, that design would be, as far as I am concerned, the best design.
The zMart Grease Pot heats up quickly for FBC and offers a steam-tray option, as is, for "poached eggs" with hot cereal or steamed clams with add-hot-water stuffing, for example.
I am at the Oregon coast, right now. Suddenly, I realize I haven't had breakfast.
I'm working on a new design pot support for someone and had to refresh my memory on how to make a cone. A while back I created this thread to show how I made a cone for the K-Mart Grease Pot. I found the thread and got my info so I thought I'd bump it up for those that might want to make a cone windscreen.
Recent interest in DIY cone style windscreens inspired a bump in this thread. :-)