Maybe this has been an issue in the past?

[spittinpigeon]

Take out your '07 Databooks and Companions, tell me if this is still the same. I leave the Trimpi shelter, and decide to go into Troutdale. When I get to 16, my book says EAST, ok simple enough, sobos always go left regardless of compass direction. After I couldn't get a hitch, I figure hey, it's only 2.6 miles downhill, and I have to go so whatever.
WELL, about 5 miles later, I find myself in Sugargrove scratching my head, and wondering if I've gotten left/right east/west up/down in/out wet/dry warm/cold missionary/doggy confused.
Later, my ride out of town informs me that the AT doesn't even cross 16. So I'm thinking 'OOOH, that's my mistake". But no, it isn't. North or South, either way you come to 16, when you're looking at it, it's left/east or right/west. Right? Or am I still mad? :confused:

[Jack Tarlin]

1. Why do sobos always go left? Sounds pretty silly to me.

2. When a book or guide says go East, it means, go RIGHT.

3. The Trail comes to VA16 but doesn't actually cross it.

5. Southbounders that want to go to Troutdale go to the RIGHT.

4. Your post is a pretty good example of why it helps to carry Trail maps.

[STOKER]

i think jack pretty much covered this 1

[Sly]

Reading the '07 Companion (page 67) VA 650 & VA 16/Dickey Gap East 2.6 miles to Troutdale. I believe that would be right for northbounders and left for Southbounders.

[Lone Wolf]

It's RIGHT on 16 no matter if you're NOBO or SOBO.

[Sly]

It's RIGHT on 16 no matter if you're NOBO or SOBO.

Really? It's been awhile.... how's that work?

[Sly]

When a book or guide says go East, it means, go RIGHT.

Always? Not normally if you're hiking south.

[Jack Tarlin]

Um, Sly, most SOBO's have figured out well in advance whether a book's instructions are aimed at a Northbounder or a Southbounder; these books will make this information very clear. Since something like 95% of Long-Distance hikers are heading NORTH, this is pretty much how books and guides are written. The prudent SOBO's realizes this, and will do the OPPOSITE of what their book says.

People that ignore this information do so at their own peril.

When a guy says he always goes left regardless.....well, there's not much we can do for him! :D

[spittinpigeon]

It's RIGHT on 16 no matter if you're NOBO or SOBO.

The databook, and the companion both said east. I wish they had made a clarification for this misleading intersection, that the usual 'sobos go left when it says east' doesn't apply at that road.

[Footslogger]

When a guy says he always goes left regardless.....well, there's not much we can do for him! :D

==================================

Just remember that 2 wrongs don't make a right ...but 3 lefts do !!

'Slogger

[spittinpigeon]

Um, Sly, most SOBO's have figured out well in advance whether a book's instructions are aimed at a Northbounder or a Southbounder; these books will make this information very clear. Since something like 95% of Long-Distance hikers are heading NORTH, this is pretty much how books and guides are written. The prudent SOBO's realizes this, and will do the OPPOSITE of what their book says.

People that ignore this information do so at their own peril.

When a guy says he always goes left regardless.....well, there's not much we can do for him! :D


Well, if I hadn't used the beginning pages of my companion for fire I could quote it verbatim, but it does say that when it says EAST, sobos always (REGARDLESS of compass direction) go left.

[Lone Wolf]

Really? It's been awhile.... how's that work?

if you're NOBO and come upon va 650 turn right, go 100 yards or so to 16 then hitch RIGHT. if you're SOBO and come upon va 650 turn left, go 100 yards or so to 16 then hitch RIGHT.:)

[Sly]

OK, thanks LW.

For Jack.. ALDHA Companion "Using this Guide" (page vii) East and West- regardless of the compass direction, east or E, and west or W, are used as they are in the AT databook. East is to the northbounders right and to the southbounders left, when referring to the trail.

[Groucho]

Well, if I hadn't used the beginning pages of my companion for fire I could quote it verbatim, but it does say that when it says EAST, sobos always (REGARDLESS of compass direction) go left.

I can see the confusion since the trail does not cross 16 and the usual E W convention does not apply. 16 actually runs ~ NE-SW here anyway with the SW (right at road) being correct.

In the data book: E "East," used to designate direction to facilities that are to the right of the trail when travelling north.

A map, even a road map would have been helpful.

[Old Grouse]

For those of you who have done road rallies, this reminds me of a trap rally I was told about in which the packet of materials included general instructions, route instructions, a pencil and some other handouts. The Generals said, among other things, "Make no wrong turns." The pencil, which not many people looked at, had imprinted on it "Left = Wrong." Almost everyone left the starting point at their assigned intervals, and proceeded on a rally of many miles, only to find that they'd started the day with a killer penalty of a missed checkpoint. The winners left the parking lot, made four right turns (basically around the block) and arrived back at rally headquarters starting point ten minutes later at an all-but unnoticed checkpoint in the back of the lot.

So, NOBO or SOBO, "make no wrong turns."

[astrogirl]

Are there other road crossings that are not...crossings?

I remember nuzzling up next to VA16 and crossing an inlet to a parking lot for hikers or rangers.

[Almost There]

You cross a dirt inlet/road there, and have to walk up it a little way to hit the road, so regardless of NOBO or SOBO you hit the paved road traveling the same direction, hence you turn right no matter what. If you are traveling NOBO you turn down the dirt inlet right, and if you are going SOBO you turn left on the dirt inlet.

As for the maps they're not always right. I was in Central Va, and crossed the road in Sinking Creek Valley, it showed a store with a phone in one direction along the road. After walking about a mile, a lady who's husband had thru hiked back in the late eighties pulled over and asked where we were headed, we told her and she said that they had moved to the area back in 86, and that the store had already closed up before they moved there. She hitched us to the town in the other direction...20 years and it was still on the map. It would be wise to carry both and if one mentions it and the other doesn't, ignore it.

[Rain Man]

I suspect this quoted section is what spittinpigeon is referring to, from pp 20-21 of the 12th Edition of the TN-NC Trail Guide (the one I had handy) --

"Guidebook Conventions"

"North or 'compass north'?-- For the sake of convenience, the directions north, south, east, and west in the guide refer to the general north-south orientation of the Trail, rather than the true north or magnetic north of maps and charts. In other words, when a hiker is northbound on the Trail, whatever is to his left will be referred to as 'west' and whatever is on his right will be 'east.' For southbounders, the opposite is true.

"Although this is instinctively the way A.T. hikers orient themselves, it can be slightly confusing for the first-time A.T. hiker, since the Trail does not always follow an actual north-south orientation. For example, you might be 'northbound' along the Trail (headed toward Maine), but, because of a sharp turn or a switchback up the side of a mountain, your compass will tell you you're actually pointed south for several miles. Nevertheless, in this guide, a trail or road intersecting on the left side of the A.T. for the northbound hiker will always be referred to as 'intersecting on the west side of the A.T.,' even where the compass says otherwise.

"When the compass direction of an object is important, as when directing attention to a certain feature seen from a viewpoint, the guidebook will refer to 'compass-north,' 'compass-west,' and so forth."

I hope this helps.

I do agree that this all helps show how helpful maps can be.

Rain:sunMan

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