Inexpensive gear [Archive]

Moonshine

03-18-2007, 20:10

I am a broke college kid who will be attempting my first section hike of the AT this summer (springer to gsmnp). I have an old pack that I have used for camping, but not hiking. However, this pack weighs in at just a bit under six pounds and I am hoping to cut that to about four lbs in my next pack. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good pack that costs right around the $100 range? I have found a Kelty Storm 3600 online for a reasonable price but have not been able to find one at an outfitters to try on for comfort. Does anyone have experience with the Kelty Storm? Thanks in advance.

Shoe Leather Express

03-18-2007, 20:13

Granite Gear Vapor Trail - $89.96

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39162592&memberId=12500226

TDale

03-18-2007, 20:19

Check campmor, rei-outlet, sierra trading post, and outdooroutlet.com for gear deals

Programbo

03-18-2007, 20:41

Granite Gear Vapor Trail - $89.95

That`s just an oversized stuff sack with straps :p .....But seriously..I would try Ebay..Maybe you`ll get a good deal on something slightly used or even new..That`s a pretty ambitious first section hike..What pack do you now have if you don`t mind saying?..I ask because I`ve seen 5 pound packs that were designed very well and would actually feel lighter on your back and conserve more energy than a 2 pound pack..Or it could just be heavy and junky :)

Heater

03-18-2007, 20:47

What pack do you now have if you don`t mind saying?..I ask because I`ve seen 5 pound packs that were designed very well and would actually feel lighter on your back and conserve more energy than a 2 pound pack..Or it could just be heavy and junky :)

Which 2 pound packs have you tried?

Moonshine

03-18-2007, 20:51

the pack i have now is made by a company called Pacific Crest, of which i know nothing about. i got it used for very cheap and it is a decent pack for what i use it for. i often load it with 40-50 pounds of junk when i camp and it doesnt feel too bad for the very short time i carry it. as for taking it any extended trips on the AT, however, "heavy and junky" pretty much sums it up.

superman

03-18-2007, 20:58

During my hike in 2000 I carried a North Face slick rock tent. How ever some of the hikers bought the Wal-mart $20, 2lb tent. It's a snug little thing but it goes up in small spaces. I bought one also but I only used it after the AT. I used a lot of seam sealer and water proofing on it. I saw some pretty big people use their Wal-mart tents in spite of it's short comings. I only mention it because you asked for cheap gear. I haven't checked but they probably still sell them.

bigcranky

03-18-2007, 21:02

It's possible to get a decent pack without spending a wad of money on it. But, which pack greatly depends on all the other stuff you want to put inside. That Kelty 3600 is a nice pack, but if you are carrying a large synthetic sleeping bag and a traditional double-wall tent and a ton of clothing, it won't be big enough. What other gear will you be using?

Moonshine

03-18-2007, 21:13

i'll be using a eurika solitare tent and kelty stratus sleeping bag which both pack up pretty small. as for clothing, since my hike will be in the south in the summertime i am hoping to keep my extra clothing to just one each of the following: t shirt, shorts, undies, pair of socks, poncho, and a fleece

freefall

03-18-2007, 21:20

All the sites lised above will Have lighter packs at a lower weight and lower cost. The bestthing to do is a search of all the outfitters online right before your threshold. Threshold being the date you feel is the LAST date before you can leave and successfully accomplish.

If you buy something now that is lightweight and useable, you might find something better at a lower cost later on. Useable is good, light is better, Ultralight is even better (for some).

You've got your ultralight gear and your regular gear.There are balance and trade-offs to make that ultimately determine your success.

As long as you choose the best gear for you, the hiking is the easy part.

headonkey

03-18-2007, 21:30

Keep a keen eye for www.steepandcheap.com (http://www.steepandcheap.com) and http://climbomatic.onedaydeal.net. They both have great daily deals but climbomatic has SUPER slow shipping (> 2 weeks). Ultralight Adventures (www.ula-equipment.com (http://www.ula-equipment.com)) has some great packs at good prices too.

Long feet

03-18-2007, 21:36

Hey,

Try the Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus. It is just over a pound and feels great. I could not ask for more. This might shave off four pounds. A good philosophy is to try to get the lightest that you can on everything, as is tends to add up to a lot of weight. You only need a heavy pack if you are carrying a lot of weight. The same for heavy footwear. I do fine with a pair of New Balance trail runners that I got at an outlet store for under $50. If I had a heavier pack, I would have to have some heavy boots. Take your gear to the post office and weight all of your items individually. You can then pick new items for weight savings by price. Good luck with your gear search. I really enjoyed getting all of my "toys" Have fun.

Jesse

rafe

03-18-2007, 23:10

Granite Gear Vapor Trail - $89.96

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39162592&memberId=12500226

That's an incredible deal. The OP would be foolish to pass it up.

Shoe Leather Express

03-18-2007, 23:14

That's an incredible deal. The OP would be foolish to pass it up.

Agreed. I use this pack and love it. I wouldn't have minded saving $50 on it when I bought it. :)

Appalachian Tater

03-18-2007, 23:16

That's an incredible deal. The OP would be foolish to pass it up.

Only if he can keep his pack weight below 25 pounds at all times, with food, fuel, water, everything. Otherwise he needs to go with the Nimbus Ozone if he wants a Granite Gear. The Vapor Trail is miserably uncomfortable carrying over 25 pounds.

rafe

03-18-2007, 23:19

Only if he can keep his pack weight below 25 pounds at all times, with food, fuel, water, everything. Otherwise he needs to go with the Nimbus Ozone if he wants a Granite Gear. The Vapor Trail is miserably uncomfortable carrying over 25 pounds.

Yep, good point. Wouldn't argue with any of that. I've got both of these packs. Just jealous, 'cuz I paid full retail for the Vapor Trail. That Campmor price pi$$es me off. ;)

saimyoji

03-19-2007, 08:01

Only M left.

Peaks

03-19-2007, 08:14

Cheap packs? Two suggestions:

First, look for discontinued models.

Second, consider an external frame pack like the Kelty Trekker.

Programbo

03-19-2007, 19:06

Which 2 pound packs have you tried?

The only pack I ever owned which was near 2 pounds was a Gregory Two Day pack and that was still like 3 pounds...I probably sold 7,000 packs in my career from just about every major company and I can`t recall any of them selling a pack which was anywhere near that weight as anything more than a day or overnight pack at best..I`ve been looking around in all the "Outfitters" in the malls (Which are mainly sporting goods/clothing stores which also happen to sell backpacking gear..Heck at my store we had like 100 packs to choose from of current stock and an equal number of discontinued ones) and the packs I see are just to flimsy to adequately carry, support or properly transfer any real weight...Then I see people on the trail wearing them and you can see the weight just hanging dead off their backs like it`s in a soft duffle bag or oversized stuff sack and it`s clear the weight isn`t riding on their hips or along the bodies natural center of gravity like it should.....Just visit..say, the Gregory website, and you`ll see all the real serious backpacks are up near 5 pounds in weight as that`s what`s needed for the correct support/suspension..Anything they have down near 2-3 pounds will barely be 1600-2400 cubic inches which is a large day pack..Same with Kelty..The packs they list at 1-2 days are all 3 pounds or so even....A 2 pound, large enough sized "pack" couldn`t be anything more than a duffle bag with shoulder straps and a hip belt.....But to each his/her own..If people want less weight and all they care about is the total pounds the pack weighs then go for it..But in reality getting a pack that weighs 2-3 pounds more will actually make an equal weight feel lighter and carry better

DrewNC2005

03-19-2007, 19:30

The packs they list at 1-2 days are all 3 pounds or so even....A 2 pound, large enough sized "pack" couldn`t be anything more than a duffle bag with shoulder straps and a hip belt...But in reality getting a pack that weighs 2-3 pounds more will actually make an equal weight feel lighter and carry better

Is the world still flat, too?

Someone obviously hasn't carried a Vapor Trail or a ULA Circuit. I've carried both, and while I prefer the ULA Circuit, the Vapor Trail did a very good job of carrying 20-25 lbs. For me, the Circuit is even better.

To say that either of these packs can't be anything more than a duffle bag with shoulder straps and a hip belt is assinine. If that was the case, nobody would buy them and they certainly wouldn't receive the rave reviews they achieve every year from countless thru-hikers. Thru-hiking (and backpacking in general) has changed a lot since 1977 and 4-7 lb. packs are no longer "cutting edge." Other gear has lightened up to the degree that a 4-7 lb. pack is overkill and the sub 2 lb. packs are up to the challenge.

That said, if you insist on carrying 50-55 lbs., neither the Circuit or the Vapor Trail are good choices. That is when the 7 lb. Arc'teryx or Gregory pack will do the trick. If that is the route you take, it's your back - not mine.

rafe

03-19-2007, 22:13

Just visit..say, the Gregory website, and you`ll see all the real serious backpacks are up near 5 pounds in weight as that`s what`s needed for the correct support/suspension..Anything they have down near 2-3 pounds will barely be 1600-2400 cubic inches which is a large day pack..Same with Kelty..The packs they list at 1-2 days are all 3 pounds or so even...

Programbo, the world didn't stand still the day you left your job as a sales clerk at Joe's Sporting Goods, Inc. or wherever it was that you sold all that wonderful gear. You're welcome to reminisce on the glory days of yesteryear, but your knowldge of hiking gear and long-distance hiking trends is seriously dated.

I still have and use some gear that's 15, 20, 30 years old. But I don't go around insisting that's the only way (or the right way) to go.

Anyway, the subject of the thread is cheap gear... so I suggest a Camp Trails Adjustable II (external-frame) pack from eBay or a rummage sale. Can't have mine, I'm much too fond of it. :D

Heater

03-19-2007, 22:42

Is the world still flat, too?

Heh... Maybe I should have added "recently" to my inquiry!

Someone obviously hasn't carried a Vapor Trail or a ULA Circuit. I've carried both, and while I prefer the ULA Circuit, the Vapor Trail did a very good job of carrying 20-25 lbs. For me, the Circuit is even better.

I have a ULA Catalyst but might have to order the Circuit because the Catalyst seems to be a little much for me. Maybe good for the PCT where you must have a bear cannister and lotsa food. (I am ordering a URSack to allieviate this) But on the AT I might get by with a Circuit. We'll see...

To say that either of these packs can't be anything more than a duffle bag with shoulder straps and a hip belt is assinine. If that was the case, nobody would buy them and they certainly wouldn't receive the rave reviews they achieve every year from countless thru-hikers. Thru-hiking (and backpacking in general) has changed a lot since 1977 and 4-7 lb. packs are no longer "cutting edge." Other gear has lightened up to the degree that a 4-7 lb. pack is overkill and the sub 2 lb. packs are up to the challenge.

Time marches on, yes. There are a few packs (as described over and over here) that handle today's lighter and improved gear sufficiently and seem to carry just as well as the old 5 pound packs.

That said, if you insist on carrying 50-55 lbs., neither the Circuit or the Vapor Trail are good choices. That is when the 7 lb. Arc'teryx or Gregory pack will do the trick. If that is the route you take, it's your back - not mine.

It is NOT the back I am concerned with as much as the knees, ankles, feet and to a lesser extent... the hip joints. This is where a lighter load helps tremendously on the wear and tear of the lower body. My upper body is just fine. :)

Programbo

03-19-2007, 22:45

You're welcome to reminisce on the glory days of yesteryear, but your knowldge of hiking gear and long-distance hiking trends is seriously dated.

Fine..Then go to the Gregory website TODAY and show me any pack they recommend for 3-4 days+ that weigh less than 5 pounds (OK there might be 1 just barely under 5 pounds) and even the 1-2 day packs are all 4 pounds plus....Kelty is a bit lighter (But a bit lower grade) and even their 3-4 day packs are all 4-5 pounds...Packs/tents and sleeping bags haven`t changed all that much in the past 10 years or so when I left my job except the "ultra-lite" breed which has always been a sub-group...People are still designed the same and the mechanics of how they move and where their center of gravity is hasn`t changed either..But since I am so out of date I shall refrain from any farther input :cool:

Heater

03-19-2007, 22:55

Fine..Then go to the Gregory website TODAY and show me any pack they recommend for 3-4 days+ that weigh less than 5 pounds (OK there might be 1 just barely under 5 pounds) and even the 1-2 day packs are all 4 pounds plus....Kelty is a bit lighter (But a bit lower grade) and even their 3-4 day packs are all 4-5 pounds...Packs/tents and sleeping bags haven`t changed all that much in the past 10 years or so when I left my job except the "ultra-lite" breed which has always been a sub-group...People are still designed the same and the mechanics of how they move and where their center of gravity is hasn`t changed either..But since I am so out of date I shall refrain from any farther input :cool:

Thing is, Programbo, is that YES... they have changed. Not just the bags but the cumulative weight of all the other components.

You can probably save a couple of POUNDS on clothes alone! My old down vest from ten years ago weighs somethin like 22 oz. I can get a comparable vest for half the weight now at least. (soon as I can afford it) ;)

Heater

03-19-2007, 23:00

Thing is, Programbo, is that YES... they have changed. Not just the bags but the cumulative weight of all the other components.

You can probably save a couple of POUNDS on clothes alone! My old down vest from ten years ago weighs somethin like 22 oz. I can get a comparable vest for half the weight now at least. (soon as I can afford it) ;)

Oh, and these pack sellers are trying to sell packs... and that is their main concern.

A lot of people hike with a sub 3# (2.75# avg.) Gregory Z-Pack for multi-day trips.

hammock engineer

03-20-2007, 00:45

My gearskin weights in at about 20 oz and I have carried around 30 lbs very comfortably. I would try more, but don't really see the need with my current setup to go too much heavier. But I think it would hold it rather nicely.

Marta

03-20-2007, 07:05

I used the Gregory G as my winter pack, from November through January. On the Gregory website it says it's for trips from 1-5 days. What is an AT hike but a series of 5-day (or less) sections? I carried loads of silly stuff, too, to amuse myself on long, dark nights, like a candle lantern, lots of reading material, a pack of cards, several electronic gadgets... And lots and lots of food.

BTW, I bought said pack online as a closeout for $75. To get back to the original subject of this thread, I agree with previous posters who've recommended searching for sales of likely-looking equipment.

Really you don't have to spend much money at all if you don't get caught up in the gear race. I love buying new gear and playing with it, but it is probably the least important factor in a successful hike.

Marta/Five-Leaf

DrewNC2005

03-20-2007, 09:25

Fine..Then go to the Gregory website TODAY and show me any pack they recommend for 3-4 days+ that weigh less than 5 pounds (OK there might be 1 just barely under 5 pounds) and even the 1-2 day packs are all 4 pounds plus....

First of all, Gregory is not the only company that makes high quality packs for 3-4 days. Second of all, the Gregory G-Pack and Z-Pack, to name a few, are packs that fit in this sub-5 lb. category in which you seem to have no faith.

Second of all, Gregory, believe it or not, is not the be all and end all of pack makers. This may have been the case 10 years ago but is not the case now.

Packs/tents and sleeping bags haven`t changed all that much in the past 10 years or so when I left my job except the "ultra-lite" breed which has always been a sub-group...

Is that so? I was not aware that there were sub-2lb 20 degree down bags back then. Maybe there were? But there has been tremendous advancements in the weight of synthetic bags (I can think of 2 or 3 companies that make 20 degree synthetic bags right at 2-2.5 lbs.)

If things haven't changed that much, then the use of materials like silnylon and primaloft are certainly being used more.

People are still designed the same and the mechanics of how they move and where their center of gravity is hasn`t changed either..But since I am so out of date I shall refrain from any farther input :cool:

I can't argue with you there. This is the whole reason most of us here are recommending a cheaper (not necessarily in quality) and lighter pack. Carrying 20 lbs. on your back is better on your joints, shoulders, back, etc. than carrying 50 lbs.

Yahtzee

03-20-2007, 09:38

You can outfit for so cheap these days, and with the exception of sleeping bags, the gear is lighter as well.

I got a GoLite Gust on Ebay for $55. And that was a "buy it now" purchase, not a winning bid.

I got my tent, the Spitfire, at Hilton's Tent City website for $45.

That is a pack and tent for $100.

Whatever you do, understand that only you can provide for you. Meaning? Don't mooch. Or you'll end up with a trailname like Doc Everask.

Good luck and happy trails.

rafe

03-20-2007, 09:45

Part of what's changed (IMO) is the perception of an AT thru-hike as a wilderness expedition. You get that sense from several of the journals in that ancient (1975) James Hare anthology, but far less so as time goes on.

There are so many road crossings, so much "civilization" encroaching on the AT corridor, that it's rarely necessary to carry more than three or four days' food. I'm guessing 3-4 days is probably the "mean interval between town stops" for most thru-hikers and long-distance section hikers on the AT these days... but maybe I'm projecting from my own experience.

The other thing that's changed is that some of us who started hiking in that era (the 1970s) with very heavy gear are now at middle-age and beyond, with knees and backs that balk at those heavy loads that we used to carry in our yout'.

So let me be the first to admit -- I'm willing to take every gram of weight savings that technology (and my budget) can buy. No shame in that. I loved my old Eureka Gossamer double-wall tent (3 lbs) but if Tarpent makes a tent that's even roomier and 1 lb. lighter, it's a no-brainer for me. I loved my old Camp Trails external frame pack (and used it on a 150-mile section last summer) but if my GG Nimbus Ozone shaves 1 lb. from my total weight, that's a bargain, from my POV.

headonkey

03-20-2007, 10:17

There is an EXCELLENT thread about dirtbag hiking (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678). That thread describes how you can basically outfit all you'll need for SUPER cheap and light. One of my all-time faves.

David335

03-20-2007, 18:43

I just got a Gegory Shasta for $100 off of ebay and it is pretty light and it is giant 5,500 cubic in. So keep looking on ebay you have to sort through loads of crap but you will always found what you need. (eventuly)

Programbo

03-20-2007, 20:45

The other thing that's changed is that some of us who started hiking in that era (the 1970s) with very heavy gear are now at middle-age and beyond, with knees and backs that balk at those heavy loads that we used to carry in our youth.

I agree with that..I am by no means endorsing carrying 50-55 pounds as someone suggested..BUT..What I was talking about is the pack itself..By all means save weight everywhere else..Heck I`m going to be 50 myself in a few months and have a bad heart so I know when I resume multiday hikes later this year I`m gonna try and carry as light a load as possible..But when it comes to my pack I`m not going to try and save 2-3 pounds if it means losing suspension and weight transfer ability..I will defininately be using an external frame over an internal
As far as my statement that packs haven`t changed much in the past 10-15 years I stand by that..Trust me after looking at every type of pack made for 52 hours a week for almost 11 years I have all the specs /materials /construction memorized even from 10 years ago..If I could gather 10 of the top selling internal frame packs from say 1996 and lay them before you and go over all the features and materials and then we were to walk into any REI,EMS,Hudson Trail Outfitters,etc tomorrow and we looked at the packs they had for sale you`d see for yourself that while there are a few minor changes they are basically the same and the reasoning behind why they are designed as they are is still the same...Still all Rip-stop, Cordura, Oxford nylons..Still YKK #5 #7 or #10 zippers..1" web strapping..Fastex buckles..T-Aluminums or graphite stays for the inserts..Some sort of high density foam padding for the straps and waist belt (Which may or may not have some sort of hardened support insert)..Of course this is mainline market packs..Obviously lots of these companies wish to cash in on the modern ultra-light movement and make some packs of non-traditional materials but if you look at the standard packs of all the main makers you`ll see the materials,weights and designs I mention are all still basically true across the board.
Oh well..I don`t wanna come off as Grandpa Simpson and babble on and on about the olden days so I`ll pipe up and let some of the young bucks talk gear..But to the original poster..Keep Ebay in mind! :)

Programbo

03-20-2007, 22:33

[quote=DrewNC2005;342014][/color]>>>First of all, Gregory is not the only company that makes high quality packs for 3-4 days.
Second of all, Gregory, believe it or not, is not the be all and end all of pack makers. This may have been the case 10 years ago but is not the case now.<<<[quote]

Never said they were either of those things..I just grabbed that name at random as an example rather than having people click on 8 different websites..I could just have easily said Osprey, Mountainsmith or anyone else...Don`t be so literal..A common trait of todays younger generation :)

[quote]>>>Is that so? I was not aware that there were sub-2lb 20 degree down bags back then. Maybe there were? But there has been tremendous advancements in the weight of synthetic bags (I can think of 2 or 3 companies that make 20 degree synthetic bags right at 2-2.5 lbs.)...If things haven't changed that much, then the use of materials like silnylon and primaloft are certainly being used more.<<<[quote}

Yes there were those things 10 years ago..What you think someone re-invented geese in the past 10 years?...And no there haven`t been "tremendous advancements"...Going from 15 pound cotton canvas steel zippered rectangular bags of the 50`s-nylon mummy bags of today qualifies as a "tremendous advancement"..The small changes of the past 10-12 years are at best minor improvements of the same design..Geez we aren`t talking about 1952!..Primaloft has ben around since the 80`s

Think what you wish and have fun on the trail..I`m not speaking of gear anymore :(

rafe

03-20-2007, 23:47

Never said they were either of those things..I just grabbed that name at random as an example rather than having people click on 8 different websites..I could just have easily said Osprey, Mountainsmith or anyone else...Don`t be so literal..A common trait of todays younger generation :)

The names you consistently fail to mention are those from "cottage" brands, and those are consistently the most lightweight and innovative. Eg., Granite Gear, ULA, Tarptent, Six Moons, Nunatak, Fanatic Fringe, Feathered Friends, Gossamer Gear, etc. And the reason you don't mention them (I'm guessing) is that you have no experience with them from your work in retail.

In truth, I had no knowledge of these brands until the last half-year or so, as a result of specific inquiries on an internet hiking forum (not this one.) I'd certainly never seen these brands (except for Granite Gear, and then only rarely) at EMS or REI.