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amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 15:01
I would like to ask the community of some of the things that they observed or they are strongly against as for people bringing kids to the shelters. Has any one ever had a bad experience with this? The reason I ask is I am relocating to Johnson City and selected this position for the access to the trail for me and my family. We would like to spend a lot of time on the trail and break in to some overnighters and I am just concerned for the trail etiquette of this and want to make sure that we do not offend the community or have an impact on it in a negative way. My kids are 7 and 4 and are well mannered I would like to expose them to another side of the world and let them meet all different kinds of people in a good open environment like the outdoors. I am open to advice and opinion no matter what it is. Thank you in advance for any response.

Midway Sam
03-22-2007, 15:08
My only concern is how "well mannered" other people at the shelter are. I know my kids won't be a problem but I'm not sure I want them exposed to some of the conversations and behavior I've witnessed at shelters.

This is not a condemnation of hikers or shelter users, just a parenting decision.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 15:09
That was another one of my concerns that I had.

Bravo
03-22-2007, 15:13
Just warn your kids or be prepared for occasional nudity when someone's changing clothes. Possibly some bad language. There's also always a chance of seeing some drinking or dope smoking.

Most of the time people in shelters are considerate of others. Especially if there's kids around. Some people will always be inconsiderate no matter who's around though.

I'm sure your kids would be fine. Just be aware of the reality of the shelters.

Whitefish
03-22-2007, 15:16
Show them the true meaining of camping and avoid them completely.

Schulo
03-22-2007, 15:26
I take my oldest son to the shelters on occasion, he is 14. I always warn him that he may see some nudity and explane that it is no big deal, and to always give the other hikers some form of privicy by not making a big deal of it. As for the dope smoking I do not tolerate it in front of my children. If the other hiker can not show me a little respect by not exposing my child to that world then they get no respect from me and they probably will be packing up and moving along, wether they want to or not.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 15:35
Thank you Bravo.

Rhino-lfl
03-22-2007, 15:36
Crap does this mean I can't walk the trail in my speedo?

j/k if people seem oblivious to the kids, remind them that there are kids present. If they still take no mind, club them to death with a piece of wood :)

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 15:37
Just warn your kids or be prepared for occasional nudity when someone's changing clothes. Possibly some bad language. There's also always a chance of seeing some drinking or dope smoking.

Most of the time people in shelters are considerate of others. Especially if there's kids around. Some people will always be inconsiderate no matter who's around though.

I'm sure your kids would be fine. Just be aware of the reality of the shelters.

I don't think you can "prepare" a 7 year old, let alone a 4 year old, to witness dope smoking or any other kind of elective drunkenness or to listen to foul language, let alone the casual nudity of strangers in a society in which nudity has been so excessively sexualized. (He or she will grow to know that nudity is sexualized in our culture, if he or she doesn't now.) If that is not normally something you want your kids to be exposed to, then don't allow it just because you're in the great outdoors.

I saw drunks when I was little, people talking the way they'd never talk when they were sober and obviously not totally in control of themselves. I found it scary. I would not have wanted to sleep near them, and these people were not strangers! Either your child will find witnessing that behavior acceptable or they will find it unacceptable...neither one is really a good thing in a young child. If you stay, then this will be the company you have chosen for them to keep, and they will file that away in their little minds.

You can't control what the other adults in the big wide world do, of course, and your kids know that by now. People who are otherwise very agreeable do still make choices that we wouldn't allow ourselves (which goes both ways, for that matter), and that's something we have to live with. Accepting that they have a certain freedom to choose is the price we pay for our own freedom. I don't have a problem with kids knowing that.

You can choose to eat and sleep where the behavior would be tolerable in your own home. If that doesn't describe the shelters--and I have known of places where the adults do act appropriately when they know there are kids around, so it is a fair question--then camp elsewhere. Show that you have the gumption to be where it is physically less comfortable, in order to be where your integrity says you should. Then you won't have to explain why, when they are fifteen and have the choice of remaining where the company is fun but making terrible personal choices, the best idea is to go elsewhere, even if "elsewhere" has its own drawbacks.

Parenting, after all, is all about the long-term picture....this is coming from the mother of eight-year-old twin boys.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 15:39
I have thought of that Whitefish and am looking in to possible getting a 3 to 4 person tent an me and my wife sharing the load. I truly do like the solitude of the tent , and it would help out with allot of what all of you are saying. Just trying to find a tent we can all get in to and grow in to over a couple of years is the hard part.

jesse
03-22-2007, 15:42
Show them the true meaining of camping and avoid them completely.

You should at least be prepared to tent, everytime. The shelters might be full! My son and I showed up on a very cold night at a shelter that could have been full, and we were not prepared to tent. That was only our second time on the AT. I later learned that the shelters are full of mice. I probably will not stay in one again.

As far as people who do not like kids, they should also be prepared to tent.

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 15:53
I have thought of that Whitefish and am looking in to possible getting a 3 to 4 person tent an me and my wife sharing the load. I truly do like the solitude of the tent , and it would help out with allot of what all of you are saying. Just trying to find a tent we can all get in to and grow in to over a couple of years is the hard part.

Check with your friends. A lot of times, those bigger tents only go out a few times a year. There are a lot of them stored in garages, begging for an outing. Otherwise, just buy the tent and resign yourself to the fact that you might be selling in someday, to make room for your four new hammocks. :D

smokymtnsteve
03-22-2007, 15:57
As for the dope smoking I do not tolerate it in front of my children. If the other hiker can not show me a little respect by not exposing my child to that world then they get no respect from me and they probably will be packing up and moving along, wether they want to or not.

amd pray tell,,,how will U accomplish the other hiker packing up and moving along whether they want to or not?

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:03
Rhino i love your post and LOL

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:05
Oregon thank you that was well put. and I Appreciate all of your words.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:08
I do like the thought of the hammocks.
:-?

Check with your friends. A lot of times, those bigger tents only go out a few times a year. There are a lot of them stored in garages, begging for an outing. Otherwise, just buy the tent and resign yourself to the fact that you might be selling in someday, to make room for your four new hammocks. :D

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:11
thank you. and good point

As far as people who do not like kids, they should also be prepared to tent.[/quote]

Schulo
03-22-2007, 16:25
Well smokey I am very convincing when it comes to my kids. And it helps that law inforcement is miles away most of the time, usually brute force is not necessary but when it come to protecting my children, if required can be used.

NativePennsylvanian
03-22-2007, 16:25
I take my oldest son to the shelters on occasion, he is 14. I always warn him that he may see some nudity and explane that it is no big deal, and to always give the other hikers some form of privicy by not making a big deal of it. As for the dope smoking I do not tolerate it in front of my children. If the other hiker can not show me a little respect by not exposing my child to that world then they get no respect from me and they probably will be packing up and moving along, wether they want to or not.


So you strong-arm the dopers and let the naked people be? Son, nevermind the naked man constantly staring at you, I need to to find a rock to smash that kids pipe then a big stick I can chase him away with.

Schulo
03-22-2007, 16:29
We are not talking about people running amuck nude. We are talking about nudity from necessity. Breif nudity has never ruined anyones life, drugs do.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:32
Schulo I agree and understand the brief nudity and am also in the regards of very inflexible toward the drugs. I totally understand what they are saying and this is helping greatly.

amazing4sg
03-22-2007, 16:35
It seems to me that smoking dope is your choice and should not be conducted in a community type environment such as in a shelter. It should be some thing you leave and go do by yourself or with whoever wants to do it with you but should never be conducted in a shelter where all do not agree with your view on it.

Jack Tarlin
03-22-2007, 17:06
Some good comments above....

Personally I'd avoid the shelters altogether, but as an alternative, I'd find a nice place to pitch NEAR a shelter. That way, you can enjoy the benefits of being by a shelter (i.e. good water, good campsites, picnic table, a fire at night) and your kids would benefit from meeting and seeing other hikers.....while avoiding all the possile downsides. You'd have you own private campsite for some "family time", you wouldn't be kept up at night by other folks, you could break camp in the morning whenever you wished, and you'd miss out on some of the possible negative aspects of commmunal shelter life.

Have a great trip!

smokymtnsteve
03-22-2007, 17:38
Well smokey I am very convincing when it comes to my kids. And it helps that law inforcement is miles away most of the time, usually brute force is not necessary but when it come to protecting my children, if required can be used.

ahh..violence in front of your kids...very good...

teach your kids violence..

course that works both ways...

smokymtnsteve
03-22-2007, 17:42
It seems to me that smoking dope is your choice and should not be conducted in a community type environment such as in a shelter. It should be some thing you leave and go do by yourself or with whoever wants to do it with you but should never be conducted in a shelter where all do not agree with your view on it.

and I agree with you...

i also disagree with violence...cept in self defense of course.;)

Schulo
03-22-2007, 18:16
ahh..violence in front of your kids...very good...

teach your kids violence..

course that works both ways...

No its call teaching your kids to make a stand in what you believe in. Something that is rare in todays society. You would like me to say, " Its ok, go ahead some your dope Mr. liberal. Although I don't agree with you cant we all get along. Group hug." give me a break.

Skidsteer
03-22-2007, 18:22
No its call teaching your kids to make a stand in what you believe in. Something that is rare in todays society. You would like me to say, " Its ok, go ahead some your dope Mr. liberal. Although I don't agree with you cant we all get along. Group hug." give me a break.

Smoking dope is definitely Bi-Partisan.

smokymtnsteve
03-22-2007, 18:42
No its call teaching your kids to make a stand in what you believe in. Something that is rare in todays society. You would like me to say, " Its ok, go ahead some your dope Mr. liberal. Although I don't agree with you cant we all get along. Group hug." give me a break.

U choose to use brute force against other folks in front of your kids it will teach them violence...also if U choose to use brute force against someone, that someone may choose to defend themself...at which point someone might get really hurt, be bad for your kids to be out thar in the wilderness with U hurt,,,

Chef2000
03-22-2007, 19:36
If you are stupid enough to lite up in front of a kid you deserve what ever happens to you...

This may be trail legend but in 2000 i heard that in 99 0r 98 someone sparked at the Hilton(fontana) in front of some weekenders kids, he contacted TVA Police (who have a station close to shelter) eventually "the Dogs" were brought in and at least one hiker got in trouble.

Those who know me Know I do not care what you do to yourself, but leave the kids out of it.

Schulo
03-22-2007, 19:55
U choose to use brute force against other folks in front of your kids it will teach them violence...also if U choose to use brute force against someone, that someone may choose to defend themself...at which point someone might get really hurt, be bad for your kids to be out thar in the wilderness with U hurt,,,

A stoned pot head will likely have a very difficult time defending himself against a blind retarded monkey. So the threat of being harmed by a stoner is in no way threatning. Smoke another smokey.

bfitz
03-22-2007, 20:02
Seen plenty of kids at shelters, if you are supervising them there won't be any trouble. I've never heard of anyone actually ecountering such boorish behavior with kids around a shelter, even when crowds are thick. Once in a great while you'll encounter some folks you don't want to shelter with, you'll easily be able to determine that right away. If you're uncertain, a straightforward polite discussion about your and your sheltermate's expectations of eachother shouldn't go amiss. In my opinion this is a non-issue.

bfitz
03-22-2007, 20:13
If you make an overture and don't like the response you get, best to move on...as Jack Tarlin said, easier to tent, you can rule your own roost.

I would never presume to smoke weed in front of someone's children or unvetted strangers at a shelter, and anyone who does is a jackass. The woods are big, plenty of elbow room, there is no reason anyone should impose on someone else like this. You would be perfectly justified telling them off. But with kids around, better to just avoid such situations and simply move away from it. you can always report them if necessary. However, I would be darned surprised if you came back and told me such a thing happened. Most hikers have a sense of ettiquette and protocol when it comes to strangers. If they don't, they should learn. Again, this discussion draws more attention to the subject than is warranted, though, cuz it ain't gonna happen 999 times out of a thousand.

rafe
03-22-2007, 20:15
A stoned pot head will likely have a very difficult time defending himself against a blind retarded monkey.

"Blind retarded monkey" would be a fitting description of anyone threatening or even contemplating violence against stoners at shelters. :D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-22-2007, 20:20
I agree with Jack (someone record the time and date :D). If you want to be sure your kids don't see nude people, hear foul language or see drinking or drugging; tent far enough from shelter that they don't see it. They will still see the trail culture in those you encounter on the trails, but people don't normally change clothes, take a bath or get wasted as they are actively hiking.

In 2005, a 10 yo boy thru hiked with his family. He was at trail days and most party animals toned it down when he was around. Most will - but a handful won't.

bfitz
03-22-2007, 20:23
"Blind retarded monkey" would be a fitting description of anyone threatening or even contemplating violence against stoners at shelters. :DOh, I'm a stoner, and I'll be at the shelter. I won't get stoned or show off my privates in front of your kids, though. If I do, you can punch me in the face, I'd deserve it. One stoner is worth three blind retarded monkeys in a fight, so watch it.;)

Egads
03-22-2007, 20:25
What ever happened to the mantra "Leave no trace"? Does this only apply to the trail? What about children & how bad adult behavior affects young minds?

We should treat each other with respect and follow the golden rule on the trail and on WB too. Enough of the bickering and silliness about whether dope smoking is morally better or worse than the nudity of someone changing clothes, which is altogether different than perverse nudity.

Egads

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 20:33
Oh, I'm a stoner, and I'll be at the shelter. I won't get stoned or show off my privates in front of your kids, though. If I do, you can punch me in the face, I'd deserve it. One stoner is worth three blind retarded monkeys in a fight, so watch it.;)

Especially a stoner that someone is keeping away from becoming stoned in the first place.

Papa bear vs. frustrated drug seeker....best to leave that one alone. The first one to re-discover where they put their common sense should move along.

Appalachian Tater
03-22-2007, 20:35
Stoned "pot heads" are harmless. Ask anyone who works in an ER how many visits people make that are marijuana-related vs. those related to alcohol and other drugs, including tobacco. Certainly having a kid see someone smoking marijuana is no worse than a kid seeing someone drinking alcohol or speeding while driving. If anything, it would be a good way to start a conversation with your children about the casual use mind-altering substances in general.

Of course, no one should be smoking anything IN a shelter, because of the smoke itself. But to inform the police of someone casually smoking marijuana is, in my opinion, more than a bit ridiculous.

Most people changing clothes in a shelter do so quickly and relatively discreetly and there is certainly no harm in your children seeing that sort of nudity. If you have a problem with that, you should not use shelters.

And as far as children bothering others, if they're are well-behaved and not whiney, they should be more acceptable to the other hikers than dogs would be. Certainly your children have as much right to be in the shelter as any other hikers.

Do be aware that it is considered courteous for large groups not to monopolize the shelters and that you should always be prepared to tent in case there is no room available.

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 20:36
What ever happened to the mantra "Leave no trace"? Does this only apply to the trail? What about children & how bad adult behavior affects young minds?

We should treat each other with respect and follow the golden rule on the trail and on WB too. Enough of the bickering and silliness about whether dope smoking is morally better or worse than the nudity of someone changing clothes, which is altogether different than perverse nudity.

Egads

Yes, except to tell some people that their language is foul and their habits are bad is akin to telling a mama that she has an ugly baby. Is just doesn't fly.

(The only difference being, there aren't any ugly babies. Nobody's homely until 2nd grade at least....when they start getting those big teeth in. Ah, well, sometimes the tables turn by high school.)

Singe03
03-22-2007, 21:32
I'm kinda conservative and certainly not pro-drugs, but I find your willingness to commit felony assault to prevent your kids from being exposed to a misdemeanor rather disturbing.

bfitz
03-22-2007, 21:47
What ever happened to the mantra "Leave no trace"? Does this only apply to the trail? What about children & how bad adult behavior affects young minds?

We should treat each other with respect and follow the golden rule on the trail and on WB too. Enough of the bickering and silliness about whether dope smoking is morally better or worse than the nudity of someone changing clothes, which is altogether different than perverse nudity.

EgadsThought you were saying egads out of the shock of being confronted with such a situation, then noticed it was your name. Egads!

Egads
03-22-2007, 21:49
Bfitz,

LMAO

Egads

Schulo
03-22-2007, 21:50
Ok heres the deal people, I am a recovering drug addict, 12 years clean. Though my delivery is probably over board my message is correct. I had a long hard road with leaving the drug induced haze that I created for my self. Pot is where it all started for me.My children will be taught to be judgmental and look down upon anyone that partakes in any form of mind altering drug. So if my stance seem a bit harsh, hopefully this will shed some light as to why. So the thought of a few stoners pales in comparrison to protecting the innocents and lives of my children.

Bravo
03-22-2007, 22:02
Ok heres the deal people, I am a recovering drug addict, 12 years clean. Though my delivery is probably over board my message is correct. I had a long hard road with leaving the drug induced haze that I created for my self. Pot is where it all started for me.My children will be taught to be judgmental and look down upon anyone that partakes in any form of mind altering drug. So if my stance seem a bit harsh, hopefully this will shed some light as to why. So the thought of a few stoners pales in comparrison to protecting the innocents and lives of my children.

So violence is the answer just cause You can't handle drugs. Great answer.

Just because you're a recovering addict doesn't mean that everyone that takes a sip or a toke is like you.

Don't take this the wrong way I'm not advocating drug use at shelters. Especially in front of kids. Dopers should be private. Anyone that thinks that it's more disturbing for a child to see someone puff a pipe than see someone bloody someones face is seiously F'ed up though.

Schulo
03-22-2007, 22:09
So violence is the answer just cause You can't handle drugs. Great answer.

Just because you're a recovering addict doesn't mean that everyone that takes a sip or a toke is like you.

Don't take this the wrong way I'm not advocating drug use at shelters. Especially in front of kids. Dopers should be private. Anyone that thinks that it's more disturbing for a child to see someone puff a pipe than see someone bloody someones face is seiously F'ed up though.

What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:

bfitz
03-22-2007, 22:09
Ok heres the deal people, I am a recovering drug addict, 12 years clean. Though my delivery is probably over board my message is correct. I had a long hard road with leaving the drug induced haze that I created for my self. Pot is where it all started for me.My children will be taught to be judgmental and look down upon anyone that partakes in any form of mind altering drug. So if my stance seem a bit harsh, hopefully this will shed some light as to why. So the thought of a few stoners pales in comparrison to protecting the innocents and lives of my children.Sorry schulo. I can respect your right to raise your kids your way, but when it comes to the ethics of drug use itself, you know it's more complicated than that, and it's not your place to be judgemental or to seek out confrontation over this issue, and definitely not appropriate to assault someone unless it is absolutely necessary (meaning you are actually physically threatened). Of course you know this, they covered anger management in rehab.

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 22:23
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:

Papa Bear, I'm not a pothead and I never have been. Kids will learn how to avoid trouble from the ways they see you avoid trouble.

Teddy Roosevelt said, "Never fight a man if you don't have to, but if you have to, put him to sleep." What people are quibbling about is whether you have to put somebody to sleep for using dope in front of your kids.

In the case you describe, you don't have to. Don't do it. Assault and battery is a worse crime than using. Besides, just one look at this thread will tell you who everybody else in the shelter is going to feel a need to rescue.....because once we all start becoming vigilantes out there, nobody is going to feel safe bringing their four-year-olds. So don't let your 4 year old see you in a bad scene that you could have avoided by pitching a tent.

That's all they're saying.

By the way....did you decide to get cleaned up because you found a group of people to look down on you? I kind of doubt it. Don't teach your kids that kind of thing. Self-righteousness and a sense of superiority is a poison to the mind, too. Don't go there, either. If you keep your heart clean of that kind of thing, you'll be in a place to really help other people out of that hell.

When you find somebody too hooked on their weed to stop one night for the sake of a child, just shake your head, walk off, and tell them, "When you come to your senses and need help out of that hole you've dug, let me know." Who knows? They may look you up one day.

fonsie
03-22-2007, 22:27
Well it's kind of stupid to spark up in a shelter, because you never kno if someone is going to pop in that might be a undercover. Just pitch a tent, that way you can roll a fatty in your tent or pack one up. Without someone narcing you out. Just dont do it in high bear populated area. Bears love that smell of fresh smoke, LOL. What I don't like is when you get to a shelter and lay out your pad and unpack. Then bam a troop of boyscouts come around and start messig with your gear wile you sleep. I had alot of problems with scouts trying to cram in the shelter with me. I been at Dalgren campground doing a week long hike and a bunch of parents and scouts would sit on the picnet tables and hold sites for other scouts. Then have the nerce to tell thru hikers to move on. I got woken up at 1 in the morning because the parents and leaders where drinking and where drunk and the scouts where running around [email protected]#%ing with every bodys gear that was on pinic tables of other campers. It was June 2, 2006 this happend, and it was'nt the first time it happend I was hiking back thru to get to my truck at Harpers Ferry and on June 9,2006 there was another troop there and they where just worst than the other one. The sad thing was they were'nt evan hiking they parked at the resterant 1/8 mile from the camp ground.

Appalachian Tater
03-22-2007, 22:37
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:

You will be better off tenting far away from the shelters or anywhere else there are other people.

Brrrb Oregon
03-22-2007, 22:42
The sad thing was they were'nt evan hiking they parked at the resterant 1/8 mile from the camp ground.

The amount of trouble you have, IMHO, drops off with the distance, taken to the third power, that you are from a parking lot.

Still, that's a disgrace. I'm not in scouting, but in when someone in an organization with a heirarchy gives me grief, I take names and badge numbers and write a few letters. If I saw adults on a scout outing drunk or scouts out unsupervised, let along vandalizing other people's property at any time of the day, I'd make sure someone in the organization found out who it was.

But, when it comes to ruining the reputation of a national organization and the character of a minor, I'm a bit of a mama bear.

Gogators
03-22-2007, 22:43
Mr. Big Bad "ex Junkie" must have learned the 13th step: You are judge, jury, and executioner. Go beat up anyone who has another viewpoint. I don't know why you are suprised at the open mindedness of people on this sight. Hikers come from all walks of life and are usually laid back respectful people. We might be liberal, but its a good thing for you. We even tolerate your obnoxious bully ass. Almost all hikers who smoke have the good sense to abstain or take a walk if children are present. Can't say the same for most drinkers in hostels and shelters. I know you have your demons, but get over it and realize that unless someone threatens you or your children's well being, you should move on and report them. But pick a fight in front of your kids. Dude, you're an idiot. Maybe you need something to chill out. LOL

bfitz
03-22-2007, 22:49
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHM5Eb99vy4

Bravo
03-22-2007, 22:50
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:

Yep. I smoke once about every 3 months. Thanks for making me see the light. I'm going into rehab tomorrow.

I'd rather my kids hang out with a doper over a violent ex-doper anyday.

Recovering from addiction can be a very postive thing. There's a lot of wisdom to be learned from an addiction. Too bad all you learned was judgement and anger. There was an opportunity to learn compassion but I guess that's just that "Group Hug" stuff that you won't stand for.

ed bell
03-22-2007, 22:55
Not that anyone would see me add some fuel to my coffee:-?;), but this whole "discussion" is way over the top. I've been backpacking for well over half my life and it's not an issue. Shelters suck and I avoid them as a general rule.:sunBrrrb Oregon has it right.

Bravo
03-22-2007, 22:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHM5Eb99vy4

Exactly!!!

Skidsteer
03-22-2007, 23:04
Not that anyone would see me add some fuel to my coffee:-?;), but this whole "discussion" is way over the top. I've been backpacking for well over half my life and it's not an issue. Shelters suck and I avoid them as a general rule.:sunBrrrb Oregon has it right.

Exactly.

It's not an issue.

....And shelters suck.

smokymtnsteve
03-22-2007, 23:13
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:

these are my last words to you on this subject I hope.

the last time that someone assaulted me,,(not on the trail)

one of us lived;)

it was ruled self-defense:D

have a nice day,,,

bfitz
03-22-2007, 23:23
You're a man, not a snake, right schulo?

TJ aka Teej
03-22-2007, 23:39
I would like to ask the community of some of the things that they observed or they are strongly against as for people bringing kids to the shelters.
I've never seen adults on the trail or in shelters ever show anything but kindness towards kids. My 3 kids have shared AT shelters about 30 times total with other ATers, never had a problem ever.

saimyoji
03-23-2007, 00:02
What ever you say junky. Wow this site is full of lame ass pot heads. Did not realize I was hanging out with a bunch of dope smoking pussys. Keep making excuses for each other. If I see you smoking pot on the trail I will report you and ask you to leave. If you dont I will kick your ass and then report both of us. I hope to see you on the inside I will trade your ass for a money and canteen like the punk you are. I am done with this lame ass conversation.:mad:


Jeez, didn't see that coming. :rolleyes:

Brrrb Oregon
03-23-2007, 00:05
Mr. Big Bad "ex Junkie" must have learned the 13th step: You are judge, jury, and executioner. Go beat up anyone who has another viewpoint. I don't know why you are suprised at the open mindedness of people on this sight. Hikers come from all walks of life and are usually laid back respectful people. We might be liberal, but its a good thing for you. We even tolerate your obnoxious bully ass. Almost all hikers who smoke have the good sense to abstain or take a walk if children are present. Can't say the same for most drinkers in hostels and shelters. I know you have your demons, but get over it and realize that unless someone threatens you or your children's well being, you should move on and report them. But pick a fight in front of your kids. Dude, you're an idiot. Maybe you need something to chill out. LOL

Ok, Ok. Take the medicine you're selling, and let it all cool off.

Bravo
03-23-2007, 00:10
Ok, Ok. Take the medicine you're selling, and let it all cool off.

Agreed but if we let it cool off what are us cyber blazers to do?:D I've still got tomorrow and all next week to work. Then I get to hang up my keyboard and mouse and throw on my pack. Until then I enjoy a little cyber scuffle.

Down with all stoners. You suck.

Now let's get high.

"Protect your kids from violence and dope by killing your neighbor." I think Jesus said that.:)

Whatever, Bong Hits for JC.

bfitz
03-23-2007, 00:10
Don't worry brrrb he was a troll.

bfitz
03-23-2007, 00:17
The self-hating also deplore nature's finest gifts. And thus, abuse and misuse them.

The Weasel
03-23-2007, 01:59
Well smokey I am very convincing when it comes to my kids. And it helps that law inforcement is miles away most of the time, usually brute force is not necessary but when it come to protecting my children, if required can be used.

Yes, that is an excellent way to teach children that some things are socially unacceptable, i.e., to let them know that when they disagree with how others behave, they should engage in confrontations that will, at their option, escalate into fighting. Yes, I see that now. It makes perfect sense. I hope you are just as good a parent when they, too, misbehave, so that when they fail to behave properly fast enough, you beat them, too. These are lessons that children need, I'm sure you agree.

The Weasel

bfitz
03-23-2007, 02:11
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

Beat...your children well...

Bravo
03-23-2007, 02:55
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

Beat...your children well...

Great song. I guess I had the lyrics wrong.:D

Bravo
03-23-2007, 02:57
Yes, that is an excellent way to teach children that some things are socially unacceptable, i.e., to let them know that when they disagree with how others behave, they should engage in confrontations that will, at their option, escalate into fighting. Yes, I see that now. It makes perfect sense. I hope you are just as good a parent when they, too, misbehave, so that when they fail to behave properly fast enough, you beat them, too. These are lessons that children need, I'm sure you agree.

The Weasel

This is the second time in nearly 3 months that I've agreed wth The Weasel. I'm sceared. Someone help me.:D

mrc237
03-23-2007, 05:53
I guess he's gone but I know one recovery slogan "LIVE AND LET LIVE'' dosn't seem that our friend knows that one.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-23-2007, 07:01
Schulo, I've been in recovery for 22 years. The principles of the 12-step programs emphasize personal responsibility. They are not a license to force your will on others. The serenity prayer is a central theme and illustrates the idea: Accept the things you can't change, change the things you can....

You cannot change other people. You might be able to overpower them and force them to move on, but if you feel so strongly that your children do not need to be exposed to any drug use, I suggest you work your program and take personal responsibility for your children. Plan to camp away from shelters, home-school your children, never allow them any unsupervised contact with other children or families, never allow them to watch unsupervised TV, screen everything they read, never let them surf the Net unsupervised -- and screen your recovering friends as relapses do happen.

In case you haven't figured this out by now, I'm saying drug and alcohol use is a part of our society and you cannot keep your kids from finding out about them. You need to teach your kids that drug and alcohol use can cause great harm and ways to avoid becoming trapped in addiction. Teach your kids HOW now - honesty, open-mindedness and willingness will put them well on their way to avoiding addiction. Simply protecting them from ever seeing drug or alcohol use will not do this - you need to talk with them when they do see it and explain why it is not a good idea and how to deal with it - over and over - just like you have likely already done in teaching them to pick up toys, clean their rooms, etc.

Marta
03-23-2007, 07:30
I'm bemused by the idea that the best way to keep kids from doing something is to keep them totally ignorant that this thing exists--alcohol, drugs, sex, bad language, whatever.

My kids were 14, 11, and 7 when we moved to Russia for a three-year stint in a small city. Russia has the highest rate of alcoholism in the world. I'm not sure if we ever left the apartment without seeing someone so drunk they could hardly stand. We saw a young man fall face down in a slush puddle, too drunk to rise. He would have drowned had his friends not dragged him out. We saw a guy on a steep hill in a park, on his knees, peeing, when he lost his balance and rolled down the hill, pee spraying in an arc. We saw a guy weaving along the street, then falling out full length into some concrete forms. What can I say? It was sadder than any "dangers of drink and drugs" movie ever made. Do my kids drink? A little. Do any of them have a problem with it? No. Seeing other people drink and smoke is NOT the source of addiction. Prohibition is not the answer.

BTW, in about six months of staying in shelters, I only had people light up in front of me a few times, and most of the smokers were men about my age who either announced what they were planning to do, or asked first. (I think my gray hair was a natural deterent--as the presence of a child would be.) The joke is that I really don't care.

And the nudity thing? It hasn't been my experience that shelters are teaming with people prancing around in the buff. There is the occasional quick change of clothing in which people are invited to turn their heads the other direction. This is somehow supposed to traumatize a child for life?

As so many have pointed out...always be prepared to tent.

Marta/Five-Leaf

amazing4sg
03-23-2007, 08:48
Some good comments above....

Personally I'd avoid the shelters altogether, but as an alternative, I'd find a nice place to pitch NEAR a shelter. That way, you can enjoy the benefits of being by a shelter (i.e. good water, good campsites, picnic table, a fire at night) and your kids would benefit from meeting and seeing other hikers.....while avoiding all the possile downsides. You'd have you own private campsite for some "family time", you wouldn't be kept up at night by other folks, you could break camp in the morning whenever you wished, and you'd miss out on some of the possible negative aspects of commmunal shelter life.

Have a great trip!


Thank you Jack and it is looking like that would be the best thing to do which is why I asked the question to rather cement my thought on this issue. Moreover, wanting to be as courteous to the AT community as we (my Family) can possible be, and show respect when on the trail. Besides, it might be a chance to buy a new tent or a used one, but still new to me.

amazing4sg
03-23-2007, 09:24
Well it's kind of stupid to spark up in a shelter, because you never kno if someone is going to pop in that might be a undercover. Just pitch a tent, that way you can roll a fatty in your tent or pack one up. Without someone narcing you out. Just dont do it in high bear populated area. Bears love that smell of fresh smoke, LOL. What I don't like is when you get to a shelter and lay out your pad and unpack. Then bam a troop of boyscouts come around and start messig with your gear wile you sleep. I had alot of problems with scouts trying to cram in the shelter with me. I been at Dalgren campground doing a week long hike and a bunch of parents and scouts would sit on the picnet tables and hold sites for other scouts. Then have the nerce to tell thru hikers to move on. I got woken up at 1 in the morning because the parents and leaders where drinking and where drunk and the scouts where running around [email protected]#%ing with every bodys gear that was on pinic tables of other campers. It was June 2, 2006 this happend, and it was'nt the first time it happend I was hiking back thru to get to my truck at Harpers Ferry and on June 9,2006 there was another troop there and they where just worst than the other one. The sad thing was they were'nt evan hiking they parked at the resterant 1/8 mile from the camp ground.


Fonsie that is the kind of thing I am trying to avoid and want to make sure that I know in advance before going out. I want people to remember me and my family as the exception to the norm. I want my kids to see the communal interaction of a group of people from all walks of life and see another side of the world that I think is one that has life long lessons to learn from. I am sorry if this hit a nerve of the community. Moreover, I guess I can see all side of the talk. I do not condone drugs but have used my self when I was a kid. And am glade that I made the right choose for my self and my family early enough to make a difference. In addition, I have been exposed to violence my whole career (Infantry US ARMY) and with both of those worlds in my baggage I want to show my kids the better things in life. Therefore, the outdoors and the AT are what I am using to do this. Then the family time that we can share together is what I am really in pursuit of, no TV, no cell phone. Striping away all of the things that would get in our way of good communication and a chance to just talk with them. Once again, I did not want to start all of this with so much controversy, I just wanted to make sure we were adhering to the unwritten rules of the Trail.

max patch
03-23-2007, 09:38
What I don't like is when you get to a shelter and lay out your pad and unpack. Then bam a troop of boyscouts come around and start messig with your gear wile you sleep. I had alot of problems with scouts trying to cram in the shelter with me.

I'm not buying this post.

I've seen a *lot* of boy scouts on the trail and I have never -- and I mean never -- seen them use a shelter when on a hiking trip during the spring-summer-fall. They always tent. Always.

I've never seen scouts mess with someone elses gear.

I have seen scouts use shelters during the winter.

amazing4sg
03-23-2007, 09:45
I'm not buying this post.

I've seen a *lot* of boy scouts on the trail and I have never -- and I mean never -- seen them use a shelter when on a hiking trip during the spring-summer-fall. They always tent. Always.

I've never seen scouts mess with someone elses gear.

I have seen scouts use shelters during the winter.


I know my son had to work on a Leave No Trace badge for the Cub Scouts and they also have one for the Boy Scouts and it is sad if this did happen but it just reinforces my thinking that if you teach your children what right is they will always be able to see what is wrong in situations like the one referred to before. And if that is so then I would hope that with the earlier teaching of, that my kids can talk to me about any thing that after he got back from a trip like that he would tell me immediately and I would have some chose words for the supposed adults on that trip.

Skyline
03-23-2007, 10:18
I guess he's gone but I know one recovery slogan "LIVE AND LET LIVE'' dosn't seem that our friend knows that one.

He obviously never heard about "Easy Does It" either.

Skyline
03-23-2007, 10:44
Well it's kind of stupid to spark up in a shelter, because you never kno if someone is going to pop in that might be a undercover. Just pitch a tent, that way you can roll a fatty in your tent or pack one up. Without someone narcing you out. Just dont do it in high bear populated area. Bears love that smell of fresh smoke, LOL. What I don't like is when you get to a shelter and lay out your pad and unpack. Then bam a troop of boyscouts come around and start messig with your gear wile you sleep. I had alot of problems with scouts trying to cram in the shelter with me. I been at Dalgren campground doing a week long hike and a bunch of parents and scouts would sit on the picnet tables and hold sites for other scouts. Then have the nerce to tell thru hikers to move on. I got woken up at 1 in the morning because the parents and leaders where drinking and where drunk and the scouts where running around [email protected]#%ing with every bodys gear that was on pinic tables of other campers. It was June 2, 2006 this happend, and it was'nt the first time it happend I was hiking back thru to get to my truck at Harpers Ferry and on June 9,2006 there was another troop there and they where just worst than the other one. The sad thing was they were'nt evan hiking they parked at the resterant 1/8 mile from the camp ground.

While regulars here know I'm not a big fan of BSA for other reasons, in close to 9,000 miles of hiking/backpacking I have never seen this extreme behavior anywhere in the backcountry from scouts or their leaders. Most have been well enough behaved and their leaders at least competent. A few exceptions, sure, but nothing as bad as you describe. I think your encounters in Maryland were very much an aberration not likely to be repeated often. I'm not surprised these two incidents have soured you on Scouting but haven't you also seen some well-led, considerate troops out there too?

FWIW, Dahlgren's location so close to a road, with its amenities like showers and multiple tentpads/picnic tables, are also kind of an aberration. IMHO there are damned few places like it elsewhere on the AT. For good reason--the location and amenities attract problems. Even the occasaional thief as I hear it. I never stay at Dahlgren tho I once took a shower there...a very nice shelter exists about two miles south with plenty of tenting opportunities away from the shelter structure.

bfitz
03-23-2007, 10:45
Thank you Jack and it is looking like that would be the best thing to do which is why I asked the question to rather cement my thought on this issue. Moreover, wanting to be as courteous to the AT community as we (my Family) can possible be, and show respect when on the trail. Besides, it might be a chance to buy a new tent or a used one, but still new to me.
With that attitiude, even in the unlikely event that you do encounter such a situation, you will be able to handle it without any problems. Again, as Marta said, kids are a natural deterrant to bad behavior. Believe it or not, most people encounter children regularly on and off the trail and unlike the militant rehab guy, are concious of the fact that we are responsible for setting a good example for them.

amazing4sg
03-23-2007, 11:10
Thank you bfitz your words are encouraging and I thank you for them, and agree with you I think most people will respect the fact that kids will be around. And by the sound of it on this issue even if some one was not respectful, the other people would be, and it is that peer pressure that might make every one act a little better. I know 99.9999% of the people are good on the trail and I know that my family and I will have no problems what so ever and even if we do, I know that we will have a lot of support from the others on the trail. As long as we do our part to respect every one else in the same way. I am excited about this move and invigorated at the thought of getting the time to spend out on the trail.

NICKTHEGREEK
03-23-2007, 11:45
I would like to ask the community of some of the things that they observed or they are strongly against as for people bringing kids to the shelters. Has any one ever had a bad experience with this? The reason I ask is I am relocating to Johnson City and selected this position for the access to the trail for me and my family. We would like to spend a lot of time on the trail and break in to some overnighters and I am just concerned for the trail etiquette of this and want to make sure that we do not offend the community or have an impact on it in a negative way. My kids are 7 and 4 and are well mannered I would like to expose them to another side of the world and let them meet all different kinds of people in a good open environment like the outdoors. I am open to advice and opinion no matter what it is. Thank you in advance for any response.

Well after after reading some of the responses I wonder if you really mean to thank posters for ANY response.
Any way, enjoying the outdoors has very little to do with hoboing in a shelter, it simply isn't a necessary part of the experience any more than sleeping in an alleyway cardboard box is to enjoying Paris or Rome. Get a pair of reasonably light tents and set up a camp well away from the shelter. when you do pass by the shelter your kids can regard it as a curiousity and be thankful they are enjoying a real "outdoor" experience. If the inhabitants look worthwhile pause and chat, if not move along. It's all fine and good for kids to get a broad based education from meeting different people, but you don't need to get to know Charles Manson to more fully appreciate how unique your slightly crazy Aunt Emma is.
Another upside to pure camping, the kids can learn to pick a good spot, set up the tents and then most importantly clean up to leave as little trace as possible.

MOWGLI
03-23-2007, 11:59
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

If I am out on the trail with my daughter, and I come across some behavior that I don't want her exposed to, we move up the trail and find another place to pitch our tent. That happened at Groundhog Creek Shelter in July 2003 when some drunken equestrians took over the shelter. All I needed to see was one of the idjits crapping in the dry streambed in front of the shelter, and we were outta there!

Rhino-lfl
03-23-2007, 13:06
Boy oh boy, I wish I was able to see hot naked girls on the trail when I was a kid :)

bfitz
03-23-2007, 13:14
Boy oh boy, I wish I was able to see hot naked girls on the trail when I was a kid :)Hope springs eternal....

Brrrb Oregon
03-23-2007, 13:21
I'm bemused by the idea that the best way to keep kids from doing something is to keep them totally ignorant that this thing exists--alcohol, drugs, sex, bad language, whatever.

My kids were 14, 11, and 7 when we moved to Russia for a three-year stint in a small city. Russia has the highest rate of alcoholism in the world. I'm not sure if we ever left the apartment without seeing someone so drunk they could hardly stand. We saw a young man fall face down in a slush puddle, too drunk to rise. He would have drowned had his friends not dragged him out. We saw a guy on a steep hill in a park, on his knees, peeing, when he lost his balance and rolled down the hill, pee spraying in an arc. We saw a guy weaving along the street, then falling out full length into some concrete forms. What can I say? It was sadder than any "dangers of drink and drugs" movie ever made. Do my kids drink? A little. Do any of them have a problem with it? No. Seeing other people drink and smoke is NOT the source of addiction. Prohibition is not the answer.

BTW, in about six months of staying in shelters, I only had people light up in front of me a few times, and most of the smokers were men about my age who either announced what they were planning to do, or asked first. (I think my gray hair was a natural deterent--as the presence of a child would be.) The joke is that I really don't care.

And the nudity thing? It hasn't been my experience that shelters are teaming with people prancing around in the buff. There is the occasional quick change of clothing in which people are invited to turn their heads the other direction. This is somehow supposed to traumatize a child for life?

As so many have pointed out...always be prepared to tent.

Marta/Five-Leaf

I wouldn't choose living in a city populated by drunks--or a home headed by one--as the best way to educate kids about alcohol. I'm not suggesting that you would, either. You bring the tent.

You don't teach a child that prostitution is wrong by driving them up and down the street in the red light district. You don't teach them about foul language by making them listen to it. That a four-year-old does not know about things that she is not prepared to deal with isn't ignorance. It is innocence. There are too many kids who are robbed of it too soon. These kids are less ready to contend with these realities in a healthy way when they become adults, not more.

The thing is, children learn best by seeing the appropriate, rather than the inappropriate: adults who use alcohol responsibly, people who use language appropriately, people have the courtesy to allow others some privacy when the physical setting or even their own better judgement won't, people who do not think that a life of integrity requires seeking out confrontation or dealing out condemnation. That little "Children Learn What They Live" poem has something to it.

If you think something is intolerable, you don't have to condone it, even tacitly....but you don't have to try to change the other person, either. Tolerance is not acceptance. If they are not hurting something or someone whom you have a duty to defend, then let them be and go elsewhere. Give each the respect due them as human beings and children of God, whether or not they give it to you or anyone else, including themselves. That respect is your duty to give, not some lower principle that you drop willy-nilly when something "bigger" grabs your attention. When your children see you dealing appropriately with a wide range of people, they do learn from that.

If you don't teach your kids in this way, then how will they return to you for the love and support they need when they've let their own life slip into the intolerable? If you decide that when others do bad things, it gives you the right to withhold basic respect from them, you are teaching an inappropriate sense of shame, not an appropriate sense of shame....an appropriate sense of shame being one that says, "You have an unassailable dignity, and it is your duty to live up to it" and not "If you don't act right, your dignity will be gone and no one decent will love you anymore."

Well, that's this mama's take on it, anyway.....and I think it is what you were getting at, too.

bfitz
03-23-2007, 13:29
It's a balance. If you do happen to encounter something, the best way to handle it is use it as an oppurtunity to teach understanding, rather than to be reactionary and have that be what you teach the children.

Marta
03-23-2007, 14:21
It's a balance. If you do happen to encounter something, the best way to handle it is use it as an oppurtunity to teach understanding, rather than to be reactionary and have that be what you teach the children.

Exactly!

Interesting you should bring up the prostitution issue, Brrrb. Guess what, the kids have seen a bunch of them, too. They used to prowl the hotels in Moscow, and stand beside the roads and in the parks in Italy. We handled it the way The Dude suggests.

Bad language...we didn't barrage the kids with it, but neither did we give it undue importance by clapping our hands over their ears and acting as if they'd been touched with sulphuric acid.

Cheers!
Marta/Five-Leaf

Rhino-lfl
03-23-2007, 14:52
Exactly!

Interesting you should bring up the prostitution issue, Brrrb. Guess what, the kids have seen a bunch of them, too. They used to prowl the hotels in Moscow, and stand beside the roads and in the parks in Italy. We handled it the way The Dude suggests.

Bad language...we didn't barrage the kids with it, but neither did we give it undue importance by clapping our hands over their ears and acting as if they'd been touched with sulphuric acid.

Cheers!
Marta/Five-Leaf

\/\/00T! Are you saying there are toot's on the AT? I should hike it more often then to spice up my love life.

Brrrb Oregon
03-23-2007, 17:24
Bad language...we didn't barrage the kids with it, but neither did we give it undue importance by clapping our hands over their ears and acting as if they'd been touched with sulphuric acid.

On that point, I learned something in dealing with stroke victims. As it turns out, expletives are called up from your brain differently than elective language. After a stroke, patients who literally can only say "da, da, da, da" electively will sometimes, without thinking, blurt things out with perfect diction. Sometimes it is "Oh, Bob never could bowl worth two bits", getting the family all excited that Grandma is miraculously cured! Most of the time, though, it is an expletive which, borne of frustration, comes out perfectly after what the patient was really trying to say would refuse to come out with intelligibly. The patients have to laugh, or they'd cry.

What I took away from this is that you should practice the language you want to use, knowing that what you use as an interjection may come out at any time, more or less involuntarily. You should not practice language that you personally don't want flying out of your mouth at the worst possible moment, particularly not as an interjection.

I have also noticed that strong language gains strength by being used infrequently. If you use it often, it is more or less expected of you. It doesn't shock; nobody cares. You don't come across as angry when you use it, but merely as habitually foul-mouthed. If you usually speak in a measured way, though, people stop in their tracks when you pull the stops out.

That is what I tell my kids: Practice controlling your mouth, but don't sit in judgement of what people let fly out of theirs. Foul language is an easy habit to pick up. Once made a habit, is an extremely difficult one to break. I should know...I used to talk so that a sailor would blush. I had a pretty good vocabulary, but instead I used one particular word as every part of speech--and prefix and suffix, besides! It is a boring and really a needlessly coarse way to talk, even when the speaker no longer notices it as such. This is obvious any time you read it in a transcript of a recorded conversation. It is the audio version of picking your nose.

It took a long time to break that habit. Somewhere, in my heart of hearts, I know that after my stroke, it will all come flying back. The kids are warned. They know how this works; I don't think they'll be too shocked. :D In the meantime, I would rather they be a little more intelligent than their mom was! Not feeding that into their heads when they're still young is one part of accomplishing that. There will be enough time for them to hear talk like that.

Ender
03-23-2007, 17:30
If I ever have a stroke, and am involuntarily blurting out the F-Bomb, I won't mind. Heck, that's what I'd want to be blurting out anyway if I'd had a stroke. :p

Brrrb Oregon
03-23-2007, 18:34
If I ever have a stroke, and am involuntarily blurting out the F-Bomb, I won't mind. Heck, that's what I'd want to be blurting out anyway if I'd had a stroke. :p

Yeah, pretty much. Still, walking through a nursing home and hearing a bunch of old ladies who in the past would have blushed to say "there ain't no" alternating between that and "da, da, da" is a little surreal.

Come to think of it, I have friends who are much more offended by the overuse of "like", "um", and "ain't" than they are by the F-bomb! :rolleyes:

Oh, well. What offends and what delights is personal, that is all there is to it.

mookiebones
03-24-2007, 08:40
oh man, if I have a stroke...whoever is near me is going to hear the swears of an old sailors soul comeback to live in my body....hahaha...

-Adrienne

Skyline
03-24-2007, 08:51
I don't think the F-bomb (or any of the other words some think are so bad the FCC gives fines to radio and TV for airing) are nearly as hideous as the N-word or other words used to describe groups of people who have traditionally been outside the power structure or mainstream.

The former are just words used to effectively pump up a statement. The latter are words typically chosen to cause hurt to individuals or groups already experiencing degradation throughout much of society.

bfitz
03-24-2007, 15:24
I don't think the F-bomb (or any of the other words some think are so bad the FCC gives fines to radio and TV for airing) are nearly as hideous as the N-word or other words used to describe groups of people who have traditionally been outside the power structure or mainstream.

The former are just words used to effectively pump up a statement. The latter are words typically chosen to cause hurt to individuals or groups already experiencing degradation throughout much of society.You are right. I grew up in the cussingest Irish peasant family you can imagine. My grandmother cussed, all of her 7 children and 21 grandchildren cussed, including the nun, and all of the 54 or so of her nearly 60 great-grandchildren who have learned to talk also cussed. Get us altogether at a reunion and after 2 hours of drinking it'll burn off both your little ears....But the master was my grandfather. His Irish-poet swearing was more of an art than an offensive act. I imitate his accent when I really want to add zing to my cussing because it stands out in my mind like that. Sounded more like a guy from philly saying falcon. like "fauw-kin". But the more time I spend in Dixie, the more I learn to politely cuss. I have to deal with customers constantly and have learned to replace swearing with those endearing southern cuss substitutes like "dang", "dad-burned" etc. It's more creative and fun, and scores social points like I never would have believed. Plus my granfathers art of cussing poetically adapts quite nicely to this style. The best part is, it's like lollipops after quitting cigarettes. The habit slides right into place without any effort.

Dances with Mice
03-24-2007, 15:56
But the more time I spend in Dixie, the more I learn to politely cuss. I have to deal with customers constantly and have learned to replace swearing with those endearing southern cuss substitutes like "dang", "dad-burned" etc. Bless your heart. <insert winking smiley>

That, btw, is the worse southern curse. It just can not be explained to outsiders.

bfitz
03-24-2007, 16:04
Have a nice day!

Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-24-2007, 16:05
Bless your heart :D