View Full Version : Stove & Sleeping Bag Advice
austinlowes17
04-08-2007, 22:55
I had two questions. The first one regards stoves. I was wondering how practical / reliable alcohol stoves are, and how easy the alcohol is to find in A.T. trail towns.
The second question regards sleeping bags. I can't decide whether to get a down bag or a synthetic bag. I know down is lighter, but i've heard it takes forever to dry and doesn't insulate at all when it's wet. Is this true?
Revolutionist_Rob
04-08-2007, 22:59
I can't speak to the alcohol stoves but for sleeping bags both of what you stated are true. But theres no reason your sleeping bag should ever get wet, so its a null point really. Down is far superior imo.
Alky stoves: very very popular these days and alcohol is easy to find in trail towns. You can use gas-line antifreeze (the right kind.) But this old geezer still isn't sold on them. Down bags: no problem at all keeping them dry, so I don't worry much about it. All it takes (to keep it dry) is a kitchen garbage bag as a liner for your sleeping bag stuff-sack.
austinlowes17
04-08-2007, 23:34
Are the alcohol stoves easy to use? How does the wind affect them? Probobly a newbie question, but i've never had one.
Are the alcohol stoves easy to use? How does the wind affect them? Probobly a newbie question, but i've never had one.
Easy to use? Well, yes and no. There's nothing to adjust, not much to break. As for wind, yes -- you do want a windscreen, just as you would with any other stove. One issue with alky stoves is that once started, you can't really turn them off (except maybe by covering the whole stove with a tin can.) Plus, the flames can be hard to see in daylight. There's a trick (learned with experience, I suppose) in knowing how much fuel to start with for a given meal. For boiling two cups of water, it takes anywhere from 0.5 to 1 oz of liquid alcohol.
Ramble~On
04-09-2007, 05:03
:-? I have a bunch of different stoves for a bunch of different reasons and uses....alc. stoves are light, reliable, no moving parts, alcohol is easy to find..err umm...for your stove that is..(can't forget the dry, southern counties)..yeah a windscreen or at least something to block the wind is needed as with any stove.
Wh. Gas and Can. stove have their place too and are just as popular but are heavier and bulkier. I guess it boils down:) to what kind of cooking you plan to do. If you plan to get fancy and cook things that require long cook times and simmering maybe another type of stove is the route you should take..but for things that're done in 20 minutes or less...such as most backpacking foods...alcohol stoves work great.
Sleeping bags...Again...there really isn't right or wrong and I have several of each...Down is more expensive, can weigh less, can compress more...less bulk...For extended use...I find that my down bags retain a nasty, funky yuk odor...which might have something to do with carrying around a heavy pack for many miles and days without a shower....anyway
I love down and have never had a problem getting a down bag wet.
There are all sorts of excellent synthetic insulations that friends claim are just as good, light and compressable as down...at a fraction of the cost but I can't say for sure cause I haven't used any of them.
Anyway.... my votes go to alcohol stoves and down quilts/bags.
eventidecu
04-09-2007, 06:07
Check out the Snow Peak giga stoves. Got one and love it.
The venerable Trangia alcohol stoves are still a viable and simple cooking option. Fill it once and it lasts maybe three days. There is no guessing as to how much to fill it with each time before you cook, it is easily snuffed out and the remaining saved for another day,and it will simmer for hours on fumes alone.
For sleeping bag I would still opt for down. It is lighter, lasts far longer, stretching your investment, compacts smaller.
Forget the 'insulates while wet' myth for nothing really insulates while wet. It is far too easy to keep your down bag dry, anyway
Alcohol stoves are pretty much the norm these days because they are cheap to make and operate.
My personal favorite alcohol stove setup is the Caldera Cone. The Cone pretty much makes wind a non-factor. It also cuts way down on the amount of alcohol used per boil.
In terms of reliability...I was out a few weeks ago with both an MSR Pocket Rocket and the Caldera. (My son was with me, hence the two stoves and cookpots.) It was cold enough that our water bottles froze. The canister failed. The alcohol stove worked.
Alcohol is probably the easiest fuel to buy along the AT these days.
If you look up articles on buying gear on a tight budget, the usual advice is to put the biggest chunk of money into your sleeping bag. That said, plenty of people hike the AT with inexpensive, synthetic bags. If you can afford a really nice down bag, go for it. It's a wonderful thing. You will want to keep it dry, but that's true of any sleeping bag.
Marta/Five-Leaf
Revolutionist Rob,
You say wet down should never be a problem.
On my shakedown camp on Springer on December 30, 2006, a cloud settled on the mountain top for the afternoon and night. With the cloud, although my tarp stopped the rain, condensation under the tarp dampened my synthetic bag enough that there was water puddled under me on top of my sleeping pad. The next day was no better. At noon, myself and several other more experienced hikers bailed. (At least I learned about the evils of cotton first hand. When I got home two days later, my jeans were still damp.)
Should a person run into multiple days of crappy weather like that, life would be hard.
Miles of Smiles
Tom
SGT Rock
04-09-2007, 08:42
The cool thing about alcohol is you can get one and try it out for free basically. Find some plans, make one, and play with it. If you decide you like it and can live with it, then you are not out anything and can spend that gear money on something else. If you decide you cannot, then you can go buy something you can live with more better. Now if you go the other way and buy something, then decide later you like alcohol better, you have blown money on a stove you won't use - unless you are like me and have various made and bought stoves just to play with.
As for bags - go down and just keep it dry.
Toolshed
04-09-2007, 09:00
{Sorry this is longish....I hope I don't come across a an old fart lecturing...}
As far as warmth when wet, a synth bag will keep you warm. I spent a few days in the remnants of a hurricane system that had passed through one weekend, in Northern PA about 15 year ago. I had dropped my common sense that weekend and agreed to share a friend's old tent instead of mine.
It poured for 3 days straight. Any flat spots we could find to set up the tent were overcome with water/mud. We searched for several hours for our campsite that first night. the second night we just gave into the first port we saw, anything to get the constant water off our heads.
Our sleeping pads suctioned up water through the old tent floor - whenever you moved, it seemed to suck up water. My synth bag was soaked and I had to get up several times to wring it out. I stayed warm (early fall) but miserable. Wet nylon clings to you and damp insulation feels heavy on you as you try to sleep - It i not comfortable, but you don't die.
As for down, I have never worried about getting the bag wet from the outside conditions, but rather from inside the tent. (Though I am glad I didn't have my down bag with me during that storm weekend.
In deep winter I use a VBL to contain my moisture, so that it doesn't condense in the outer layers of the bag and reduce the bags warmth rating over the course of a few nights (one loses at least 3 pints per night in between breathing and sweating).
Now I realize we aren't talking about subzero weather in this thread, but you are still emitting moisture all night long. I bring it up as a point because in extremely damp weather, your down bag will continue to pick up dampness, and reduce its warmth rating, while never officially becoming "wet".
Ventilation within your shelter is key here, it is usually better to have some air flow through your shelter than to be completely buttoned down and trapping all your moisture so that it condenses on your shelter sides and roof and either drips on you or is brushed onto your bag as you move around.
Also important is taking breaks and letting your down bag air out over some rocks or branches. 20-30 minutes in the sun or a breeze can go a long way toward evaporating moisture in the bag and allowing it to dry off.
rjridgely
04-09-2007, 09:35
First off, I have never been an ounce counter.
20+ years selling outfitter gear, full & part time & using stoves in the field, from the sub-zeros of the NH White's to the dog-days of the mid-atlantic region has taught me one thing.....NO alcohol (stoves) for me.
MSR Dragonfly (noise no worse than loud people at quiet time) & Peak 1 multifuel are my most used stoves...Peak 1 extreme is used when i want easy gloves-on operation. Used the MSR for 200+ straight days back in 2002 without a hiccup and that same stove today lights on the first try...never having done any maintenance other than oiling the pump a few times & the multifuel Peak 1 is just a reliable workhorse.
If affordable...down is the only choice. Mountain Hardware Conduit bags are really good performers. Just remember to stuff them inside-out so the air squeezes out easily.
RJ, as a long-time Whisperlite fan (20 yrs. or so now) I know how you feel. But I've started to be a bit more weight-conscious (vis-a-vis my hiking gear.) So, while I haven't yet got comfy with the alcohol stove, I will be leaving the MSR behind, from now on. I'll see how it goes with a canister stove (Pocket Rocket.) Or possibly my JetBoil. Haven't decided yet... but it won't be the old Whisperlite.
Toolshed
04-09-2007, 21:34
My Whisperlite sits on the shelf now awaiting when the snow flies.
It was one of my first true pieces of tech gear many years ago and I felt it was one of my most reliable pieces of gear and it always boosted my confidence in the backcountry - I always had a reprieve of something hot to eat or drink.
I like screwing around with the alcohol stoves on my workbench as well as the using the Esbit stove, but after 5 years of tinkering, last year I moved on to a pocket rocket for 3 season use - I still want it hot and fast. But I do enjoy the simplicity of alcohol and esbit tabs.
I havent done much long distance hikes but have joined my brother a bunch of times on his thru hike and his stove worked very well so i made the same one. A beer can or soda can cut right and a piece of baking sheet as a wind screen. The gasline antifreeze found at walmart and most gas stations works perfect and carried in a mini water bottle(6-8oz) had never leaked for either of us and you can wrap the windscreen around it perfectly. Very cheep and if broken,find another can.