Ouch my toe! Is it my Superfeet?

[rswanson]

I bought Superfeet Green inserts to go in my trail runners (Salomon XA Pro 3D) to give me both more arch support, and provide some dense sheilding between my soles and the rocky trails I tend to hike on (I'm near PA). Initially, the arch support made my feet ache a bit but I stuck with them for a few hikes and the soreness went away. I still feel the arch support under my feet and it doesn't feel 100% natural, but there is no more ache from my arches. I do have fairly low arches. I figured all was well...until recently.

I've been hitting the trail on 5-8 mile dayhikes, varied terrain, over the past month and I've developed a problem. After a mile or so, I'm noticing pain on top of my right big toe...right were my Extensor Hallicus Longus tendon is. It almost feels like a minor tendon sprain or stress fracture of the proximal phalange. After hiking, the pain persists for 12-24 hours. It recurs each hike. I'm not inclined to think its the shoes, as I've been using them for about 8 months now with no problems. Could it be the Superfeet? I haven't pulled them out and replaced them with the stock insoles, becasue those are pretty much shot. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem with Superfeet? I can't find much information on injuries to the EHL tendon, but I have read that tendonitis of this tendon can develop with improperly fitted footwear, as well as overtraining. Any foot experts care to comment?

[Footslogger]

I bought Superfeet Green inserts to go in my trail runners (Salomon XA Pro 3D) to give me both more arch support, and provide some dense sheilding between my soles and the rocky trails I tend to hike on (I'm near PA). Initially, the arch support made my feet ache a bit but I stuck with them for a few hikes and the soreness went away. I still feel the arch support under my feet and it doesn't feel 100% natural, but there is no more ache from my arches. I do have fairly low arches. I figured all was well...until recently.

I've been hitting the trail on 5-8 mile dayhikes, varied terrain, over the past month and I've developed a problem. After a mile or so, I'm noticing pain on top of my right big toe...right were my Extensor Hallicus Longus tendon is. It almost feels like a minor tendon sprain or stress fracture of the proximal phalange. After hiking, the pain persists for 12-24 hours. It recurs each hike. I'm not inclined to think its the shoes, as I've been using them for about 8 months now with no problems. Could it be the Superfeet? I haven't pulled them out and replaced them with the stock insoles, becasue those are pretty much shot. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem with Superfeet? I can't find much information on injuries to the EHL tendon, but I have read that tendonitis of this tendon can develop with improperly fitted footwear, as well as overtraining. Any foot experts care to comment?
========================================

Curious ...did you remove the original inserts from your shoes before inserting the SuperFeet ?

Second question would be in regard to the size SuperFeet you bought. Many hikers buy them based on overall length as compared to the length of their feet ...and that is incorrect. The "heel to arch" length and the "heel width" determine the appropriate size SuperFeet.

As far as your inflamed EHL ...if there is a lot of foot movement inside your shoe it is conceivable that your great toe is having to do extra work and the ligament is being aggrivated.

'Slogger

[Mother's Finest]

I bought Superfeet Green inserts to go in my trail runners (Salomon XA Pro 3D) to give me both more arch support, and provide some dense sheilding between my soles and the rocky trails I tend to hike on (I'm near PA). Initially, the arch support made my feet ache a bit but I stuck with them for a few hikes and the soreness went away. I still feel the arch support under my feet and it doesn't feel 100% natural, but there is no more ache from my arches. I do have fairly low arches. I figured all was well...until recently.

I've been hitting the trail on 5-8 mile dayhikes, varied terrain, over the past month and I've developed a problem. After a mile or so, I'm noticing pain on top of my right big toe...right were my Extensor Hallicus Longus tendon is. It almost feels like a minor tendon sprain or stress fracture of the proximal phalange. After hiking, the pain persists for 12-24 hours. It recurs each hike. I'm not inclined to think its the shoes, as I've been using them for about 8 months now with no problems. Could it be the Superfeet? I haven't pulled them out and replaced them with the stock insoles, becasue those are pretty much shot. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem with Superfeet? I can't find much information on injuries to the EHL tendon, but I have read that tendonitis of this tendon can develop with improperly fitted footwear, as well as overtraining. Any foot experts care to comment?

tendonitis is a pretty generic term meaning inflamation of a tendon. Provided there is nothing broken in there, that is as likely as any diagnosis to be true.
You say that you have been training more lately....this problem typically does not develop overnight.
Had you not been wearing superfeet, you would have likely developed this problem more rapidly.
You say that your feet are pretty flat, so it is very likely that like 95% of the population, you pronate. When this happens, our feet get distorted and tendons and ligaments are overstressed. When you add a backpack, and multiple mile days to the equation you get some type of pain. In your case the big toe is hurting you.
Do you notice the pain when you put your boots/shoes on immediately? Does it happen after you have been hiking for a while, or does it improve after you have been hiking? Do you notice any swelling around the joint?
Either way, my answer is going to be the same. In most cases the goal is to fill up your arch, and this will lower the head of the MTP joint......Filling up the arch is the key.
To make sure nothing is busted up in there, you should really get checked out by a doctor. Then go find a CPed to make you a proper orthotic.
www.cpeds.org (http://www.cpeds.org) to find one near you.

peace
mf

[Mother's Finest]

damn slogger, you were right there with me....I really need to get my ass in gear on that article.

peace
mf

[rswanson]

Thanks guys. I was hoping you'd reply, Mother's Finest.

Footslogger- I did remove the original inserts, which are pretty flat now. My shoes have plenty of room in the toebox, just enough to keep my toes from banging into the front of the shoe. I wouldn't say they are overly roomy, and I put about 400 miles in them last year with no issues. I wasn't wearing the Superfeet for most of those miles. The Superfeet are sized correctly for my bare feet.

Mother's Finest- My feet do overpronate, but by judging the wear on the soles of most of my shoes, just slightly. The pain is very moderate, occurs only when hiking on trail, developing over the course of the first few miles, and dissapears usually within 24 hours. No swelling that I can detect visually. The toe or joint do not appear to be inflamed. There is no limitation in the range of movement of my toe.

I do sometimes feel as if my big toes are 'working harder' to give me grip than they should, if that makes any sense.

[mudhead]

I am not a cped.

I do have a recurring issue with the big toe when wearing worn out NB running shoes around the yard. Top of the joint tendon. Hurts like ****.
I find I lengthen my stride in these worn out shoes and overflex that toe. Hurts after barefoot, even. Clicks and noises. Only recourse is to pitch the shoes. For me.

You say they are 8 months old...

Be careful you don't annoy a hip favoring that foot!

[rswanson]

You say they are 8 months old...

Be careful you don't annoy a hip favoring that foot!
I thought about getting a new pair but they've only got about 500 miles on them. The soles look in good shape and not too compressed. At $90 a pair, I'd rather eliminate the $30 inserts as a probable cause first. The pain isn't any more than a minor irritation, one that I often forget about. It doesn't affect my stride at all. I just don't want it to get worse. I'll find out for sure on a multi-day trip in a week. I'll bring the stock insoles as well and see what's what.

On that note, can anyone recommend a good general replacement for stock insoles..other than Superfeet that is?

[Footslogger]

[quote=rswanson;353284]I thought about getting a new pair but they've only got about 500 miles on them.
=========================================

Just a thought. Depending on the shoe ...500 miles is getting pretty close to the end of usefull life at least for backpacking.

It is hard to deal with the death of a $90 shoe that still "looks" as if it has life. But when you're carrying a backpack and dealing with trail conditions you really stress a shoe.

'Slogger

[rswanson]

It is hard to deal with the death of a $90 shoe that still "looks" as if it has life. But when you're carrying a backpack and dealing with trail conditions you really stress a shoe.
Understood. I'm drawing my conclusions about the shoe's life based on the support they still provide in comparison to other trail runner's I've owned. I guess it's simple enough to try on a new pair and compare. I'll give that a shot too, thanks.

[mudhead]

I wear old shoes around the yard because I am frugal. I lengthen my stride because I am an idiot and have forgotten something "9 miles" away in the garage. Haste... Anyway, I figure the shoes flex too much or maybe I need to gather all the tools I need beforehand. You would think that after doing this more than once, I would learn. The hard way.

Speaking of longevity, has anyone actually worn out a Vibram lug sole? Not the cheesy WaffleStomper sole, the real Vibam lug. Always seems like they should have had life left in them, but the rest of the boot was toast.

[bigcranky]

When my feet start to hurt in my trail runners, it's time for new shoes. No matter how good they look, they can be worn out. I find my Salomon XA Comps last about a year of hiking, though in my case the mesh starts getting big holes -- so they do look bad.

Then I put the old ones in the garage for gardening.

Also, I learned the hard way that Superfeet don't last forever, either. I have a newish pair of trail runners with old, old Superfeet. My heels were killing me all last month. While I was at REI last weekend, I stuck a new pair of SF in there, and the difference was dramatic.

[Toolshed]

Don't know if this helps, but I dropped a heavy sprayer on my left big toe about 25 years ago and broke it. It healed naturally, but sometimes now after a hiking trip, I will get a long dull pain on the top of the toe. I have found I need to "crack" my big toe now, on occasion, by twisting it a bit and the pain goes away. Actually it is the same with my knee.

[mudhead]

Don't know if this helps, but I dropped a heavy sprayer on my left big toe about 25 years ago and broke it. It healed naturally, but sometimes now after a hiking trip, I will get a long dull pain on the top of the toe. I have found I need to "crack" my big toe now, on occasion, by twisting it a bit and the pain goes away. Actually it is the same with my knee.


I annoyed a toe several days ago pushing slush in the driveway.

So I read this and just have to twist the toe. Gently. Did it both ways.

Just like pulling a thorn! Hope it lasts, even if it is placebo! Wicked yeehaw thankyou!

[Mother's Finest]

[quote=rswanson;353284]I thought about getting a new pair but they've only got about 500 miles on them.
=========================================

Just a thought. Depending on the shoe ...500 miles is getting pretty close to the end of usefull life at least for backpacking.

It is hard to deal with the death of a $90 shoe that still "looks" as if it has life. But when you're carrying a backpack and dealing with trail conditions you really stress a shoe.

'Slogger

Agree 100% with the above.....
if you replace the shoes and still have a problem, the only way to deal with it will be a proper custom orthotic.
I am going to take a moment to run a commercial here...... the single best lab in the USA making orthotics is called Sole Supports. www.solesupports.com (http://www.solesupports.com) The podiatrist/engineer that invented them is cutting edge. He is re-defining the way we look at the foot and the gait cycle. Anyone that is investing the money in a set of orthotics would do really well to find a practicioner near them that can cast for them.
I DO NOT WORK FOR SOLESUPPORTS< NOR DO I GET ANY $$$$ OR BENEFIT FROM THEM> I am a practicioner that has been making orthotics for years and these are the absolute best....Next winter olympics US ski team will all be wearing them.
they are not cheap, depending upon the practicioner that casts you it will run 400-600 for a pair. lifespan is 5-10 years.
END COMMERCIAL
where are you in Baltimore rswanson? I am originally from the Cockeysville area, and one of my best friends in high school was named Kent Swanson (he is not with us anymore though)
peace
mf

[leeki pole]

[quote=rswanson;353284]I thought about getting a new pair but they've only got about 500 miles on them.
=========================================

Just a thought. Depending on the shoe ...500 miles is getting pretty close to the end of usefull life at least for backpacking.

It is hard to deal with the death of a $90 shoe that still "looks" as if it has life. But when you're carrying a backpack and dealing with trail conditions you really stress a shoe.

'Slogger
Amen, 'Slogger. Take this as you will, but after 30,000 miles in my running log so far, I've found that 500 miles is pushing the limit of any shoe. Better to buy a new pair of shoes, 'cause you ain't getting new feet.

[rswanson]

Don't know if this helps, but I dropped a heavy sprayer on my left big toe about 25 years ago and broke it. It healed naturally, but sometimes now after a hiking trip, I will get a long dull pain on the top of the toe. I have found I need to "crack" my big toe now, on occasion, by twisting it a bit and the pain goes away. Actually it is the same with my knee.
I'm not really sure what to make of this but it worked...really. Thanks Toolshed...maybe! I'll see for sure after a few miles this weekend and 30 miles in Dolly Sods next week.

Mother's- No relation to Kent Swanson. I'm originally from the DC area but I live in Hampstead now, about 20 minutes from Cockeysville. Small world, right?