View Full Version : Myth or Fact?: Things Every Hiker Should Know
Imagine: after a long, hard day of trekking through the woods, enjoying fresh air & sunshine, you sit down to a nice hot meal of cancer-causing toxins.
What!?!?:eek:
We've all come across warnings against the cookware and cooking styles we use. I'd like to open a thread to discussing things we've heard (myth or fact).
Myth: "freezer-bag cooking" is completely safe.
Reality: Only use plastics specifically labelled safe for cooking! Heating anything (metal or plastic) causes a reaction that can pull chemicals into your food. Phthalates (environmental contaminants that disrupt the endocrine system) and other toxins could be leached into your food from heating 'flexible' plastics. (John Hopkins Medical)
Myth: "Don't freeze your plastic water bottles before a hike--this releases dioxin carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) from the plastic."
Reality: There are no dioxins in plastics. In fact, freezing works against the release of chemicals, since chemicals don't diffuse as easily in cold temperatures. (John Hopkins Medical)
Myth: "Do not reuse water bottles--heat and the plastic and water bottles releases cancer-causing agents linked to breast cancer."
Reality: (See the first note on boiling flexible plastics). The only other concern is the spreading of bacteria without properly washing them(?) or allowing them sufficient time to dry. (John Hopkins Medical)
Myth: "Aluminum can build-up in the brain from cooking with aluminum cookware, tin foil, ect, and causes Alzheimer’s."
Reality: Is this really a myth? Probably not! Although the FDA says "cooking utensils, foil, antiperspirants, antacids, and other aluminum products are generally safe" they also say this:
"Some people with kidney disease store a lot of aluminum in their bodies and sometimes develop bone or brain diseases which may be caused by the excess aluminum. Some studies show that people exposed to high levels of aluminum may develop Alzheimer’s disease, but other studies have not found this to be true. We do not know for certain whether aluminum causes Alzheimer’s disease...We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people...We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people" :confused:
They advise: "Avoid taking large quantities of aluminum-containing antacids and buffered aspirin and take these medications as directed." :-?
Note: A person using uncoated aluminum pans for all cooking and food storage every day would take in an estimated 3.5 milligrams of aluminum daily (we absorb aluminum daily from other sources as well).
Claim: The anodization process hardens the surface of aluminum cookware making it non-stick, scratch-resistant and easy to clean. Manufacturers claim that a final stage in the anodization process seals the aluminum, preventing any leaching into food.
:( So, can anyone else share things they've heard??
We do not know for certain whether aluminum causes Alzheimer’s disease...We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people...We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people" ummmm......kinda scary.
ummmm......kinda scary.[/quote]
Isn't it? It's enough to make me give up canned soda (I'm still clinging to my favorite anti-perspirant though!)
The Old Fhart
04-21-2007, 01:31
Lexie-"It's enough to make me give up canned soda"Soda cans have a plastic coating on the inside. Wikipedia says: "Aluminium cans contain an internal coating to protect the aluminium from the contents. If the internal coating fails, the contents will create a hole and the can will leak in a matter of days."
So, can anyone else share things they've heard??
Living causes old age, which eventually leads to death!!:sun
Soda cans have a plastic coating on the inside. Wikipedia says: "Aluminium cans contain an internal coating to protect the aluminium from the contents. If the internal coating fails, the contents will create a hole and the can will leak in a matter of days."
Huh. I think I remember hearing about a coating now. What about on the outside, where you put your mouth? (negligible, but curious)
P.S. I'd heard high-grade aluminum/bauxite resources were diminishing, which would make the cost of aluminum increase (far future) as mining the lower-grade rocks is more costly, but I can't find anything supporting that anymore. You wouldn't happen to know?
oldfivetango
04-21-2007, 07:22
Living causes old age, which eventually leads to death!!:sun
Yup! And we are ALL running out of time-so have some fun today!:banana
Oldfivetango
We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people...We do not know if aluminum will affect reproduction in people"
COOL, if it does, then that means I don't need to get a vasectomy, just drink more canned cokes! Thanks for the heads up!!
superman
04-21-2007, 10:15
Good thread
My question is at what age can I stop worrying about things that are going to kill me some day. So far during my life I have been exposed to DDT, agent orange, asbestos, microwaves, I smoked for 35 years and a raft of other stuff that will kill me... some day. I even lived so reckless that I haven't always used my seat belt...not even in helicopters, on my mototcycle or on my parachute.
It's been a hoot...no worry.
http://groups.msn.com/OldGUYthenandnow/shoebox.msnw
What about styrofoam? I worked in a restaurant where a strange lady always made us line the styrofoam containers with saran wrap to prtect from the styrofoam. I guess she preferred plastic wrap poisoning....
Earl Grey
04-21-2007, 11:56
What plastic bags are ok for cooking then?
Living causes old age, which eventually leads to death!!:sun
"It's not that life is so short, it's just that you are dead for so long!" :p
Gray Blazer
04-21-2007, 12:31
Myth: The Swedish Bikini Backpacking Team trains every July at Tray Mountain Wilderness in GA.
Reality: I wish!
What plastic bags are ok for cooking then?
SC Johnson (makers of ziplock) says this on their website:
1. Can ziplock bags be used in the microwave?
Ziploc® Brand Sandwich Bags and Snack Bags should not be used in the microwave. Ziploc® Brand Storage Bags may be used for microwave reheating; Ziploc® Brand Freezer Bags may be used for microwave reheating and defrosting. When defrosting or reheating, always open the zipper one inch to vent. Be careful when reheating foods that are high in fat or sugar content (bacon, pastries), because these foods reheat very quickly and may exceed the softening point of the bags.
2. Can I boil in ziplock bags?
No. Ziploc® Brand bags are not designed to withstand the extreme heat of boiling.
"Thank you for asking about using Ziploc bags to make omelets. While we appreciate hearing about new and innovative ways to use our products, we must be cautious that these new ideas follow label directions.
"Ziploc bags are not designed or approved to withstand the extreme heat of boiling and therefore, using Ziploc bags to make any recipe that requires the bag to be boiled is not recommended.
"Like all of SC Johnson's products, Ziploc bags cam be used with confidence when label directions are followed. All Ziploc containers and microwaveable Ziploc bags meet safety requirements of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for temperatures associated with defrosting and reheating food in microwave ovens,as well as room, refrigerator, and freezer temperatures.
"Please share these facts with others who may have this misleading information. We also encourage people to go to www.ziploc.com for more information on the proper use of this product."
So, depends. If it says its microwaveable, it is--with caution. Maybe someone has found a product that could withstand extreme heat?
The Old Fhart
04-21-2007, 12:46
Reynolds has made high-temp cooking bags for years. Check here (http://www.alcoa.com/reynoldskitchens/en/product.asp?cat_id=1337&prod_id=1790) to see what they have and FAQs. The package says not to exceed 400° F. I'm sure there are other brands available.
Reynolds has made high-temp cooking bags for years. Check here (http://www.alcoa.com/reynoldskitchens/en/product.asp?cat_id=1337&prod_id=1790) to see what they have and FAQs. The package says not to exceed 400° F. I'm sure there are other brands available.
Nice--clear nylon! And you wouldn't have to worry about exceeding the temp with a backpacking stove. Anyone actually use them on the trail?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
04-21-2007, 13:36
I'm somewhat familiar with the research on aluminum and Alzheimer’s (my mother has Alzheimer’s) - there is no evidence to suggest that aluminum cookware has any relationship to Alzheimer’s. My grandmother (who died of Alzheimer’s) and mother both used cast iron cookware for many, many years. My father who has eaten well over 99% of his meals with my mother for about 60 yrs does not have Alzheimer’s nor any mental deterioration though he is quiet elderly.
Thanks FD, that's reassuring! I know absorbing aluminum is natural, and we absorb aluminum on a daily basis through many sources.
In fact, I pick the highest aluminum content possible in my anti-perspirants because they work the best. But, I still make trade-offs when possible, since I know my uptake is greater in other areas, and there is still a risk associated with aluminum--research is still being done.
:-? I don't mean to start a thread saying you can't enjoy plastic materials or aluminum, but you hear of instances when you shouldn't use products, and I wanted to share that and get feedback on it.
Hey, I enjoyed smoking for 10 years too. 'Course, I knew the risks. But I don't want cancer. Thankfully, I came away without it (uh, hopefully). I don't freak out when a friend lights up.
Knowledge is power. Use it wisely.
I love my bike.:D
What about styrofoam? I worked in a restaurant where a strange lady always made us line the styrofoam containers with saran wrap to prtect from the styrofoam. I guess she preferred plastic wrap poisoning....
I think there was a foaming agent used that was some sort of CFC, but I don't think they use it anymore (check the box before using). Hmm, I'm not sure about microwave safe... oh, check this out, this was funny:D :
A: A Styroform or plastic package marked Microwave Safe is safe for your microwave: Not you. You don’t eat the package!
Q: You’d think the Food and Drug Administration would warn us …
A: I’m amazed at the confusion you find at various web sites. The FDA seems to say microwaving things in plastic is okay – as long as the plastic doesn’t get too hot! OSHA and the EPA (http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/styrene/index.html) call Styrene a possible human carcinogen. Yet the US Department of Agriculture (http://www.foodsafety.gov/%7Efsg/fs-mwave.html) is emphatic about the dangers. They say, quote:
“Do not use foam trays and plastic wraps…. Melting or warping may cause harmful chemicals to migrate into food.” Unquote.
The bottom line?
The more chemicals you put in your body, the more energy your body has to expend to get them out. You have a choice: To take risks, adding to your chemical load. Or choose to play safe: Cook your food in glass, ceramic, or – on the stove – in stainless steel.
Q: What about drinking coffee in a Styrofoam cup?
A: We’ve known since 1988 that Styrene leaches into the coffee (http://www.ejnet.org/plastics/polystyrene/health.html). The cup actually loses weight while being used.
katagious
04-21-2007, 14:58
You know, Pampered Chef had these things called "toaster bags" they originated in Norway or Sweden. They were dishwasher safe and reusable. You could put anything like a cold slice of pizza or a cheese sandwich and put it in the toaster or toaster oven and toast them. Now that I'm thinking about this..they were similar material as that which the boil bags are made of...I wonder if they could be used and re-used for this...I'll have to dig them up and test em...anyone else ever see/hear of or use these bags?
Brrrb Oregon
04-21-2007, 16:22
Soda cans have a plastic coating on the inside. Wikipedia says: "Aluminium cans contain an internal coating to protect the aluminium from the contents. If the internal coating fails, the contents will create a hole and the can will leak in a matter of days."
This, of course, made me do an immediate internet search concerning the safety of that culinary wonder, "beer can chicken". For those not aware of this class of recipes, they involve grilling a chicken by standing it upright on the grill by way of a can of beer still containing 8-10 oz. of beer. The chicken "sits" upright on the can, with the legs to stablize it, leading to the alternative description, "Chicken on a Throne."
According to the experts at "Barbeque University", laboratory tests could detect absolutely no chemicals released when a beer can is heated over a grill with the beer still in it, since the temperature is held down to the boiling point of the beer.
http://www.bbqu.net/season1/107.html
Isn't that a relief?
A Technical Note: The brand or quality of the beer used, incidentally, makes no difference. I have even forgotten to punch the recommended extra holes in the top of the can, and no one noticed. Although the extra few ounces of beer taken out of the can prior to putting the chicken on it are traditionally drained into the cook, I have successfully used two cans of lousy beer to do three chickens, disposing of the entire contents of the third can, a superior beer, in the traditional way. As two people have been known to polish off an entire beer can chicken in one sitting, and a Weber grill will accommodate three chickens sitting on beer cans, I highly recommend my method.
bullseye
04-21-2007, 16:35
Nice--clear nylon! And you wouldn't have to worry about exceeding the temp with a backpacking stove. Anyone actually use them on the trail?
About 15 years ago I bought a thing called a bakepacker that let you "bake" in you cookpot. It was a grid that you put in water and when you heated it it cooked your food that you had placed in a reynolds oven bag. Had Calzones at Windsor Furnace shelter one time with it. They were great except 1)they didn't brown and 2) you had to run your stove for about 20-30 minutes to cook them. Bags worked great, though.
Drink moonshine. It cures everything. Plus it cleans your nalgene bottle. It will eat thru most platapus containers.
Skidsteer
04-21-2007, 21:26
SC Johnson (makers of ziplock) says this on their website:
1. Can ziplock bags be used in the microwave?
Ziploc® Brand Sandwich Bags and Snack Bags should not be used in the microwave. Ziploc® Brand Storage Bags may be used for microwave reheating; Ziploc® Brand Freezer Bags may be used for microwave reheating and defrosting. When defrosting or reheating, always open the zipper one inch to vent. Be careful when reheating foods that are high in fat or sugar content (bacon, pastries), because these foods reheat very quickly and may exceed the softening point of the bags.
2. Can I boil in ziplock bags?
No. Ziploc® Brand bags are not designed to withstand the extreme heat of boiling.
"Thank you for asking about using Ziploc bags to make omelets. While we appreciate hearing about new and innovative ways to use our products, we must be cautious that these new ideas follow label directions.
"Ziploc bags are not designed or approved to withstand the extreme heat of boiling and therefore, using Ziploc bags to make any recipe that requires the bag to be boiled is not recommended.
"Like all of SC Johnson's products, Ziploc bags cam be used with confidence when label directions are followed. All Ziploc containers and microwaveable Ziploc bags meet safety requirements of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for temperatures associated with defrosting and reheating food in microwave ovens,as well as room, refrigerator, and freezer temperatures.
"Please share these facts with others who may have this misleading information. We also encourage people to go to www.ziploc.com (http://www.ziploc.com) for more information on the proper use of this product."
So, depends. If it says its microwaveable, it is--with caution. Maybe someone has found a product that could withstand extreme heat?
Freezer bag cooking is not boiling water in a freezer bag. It's pouring recently boiled water in a freezer bag and letting it sit until it's cooked.
Freezer bag cooking is not boiling water in a freezer bag. It's pouring recently boiled water in a freezer bag and letting it sit until it's cooked.
I also think the people at ziplock can't say that it is safe to use for freezerbag cooking. Imagine all the things backpackers use that aren't for their intended purpose. Most manufactures would say they wouldn't recomend using them that way, bacause they haven't designed marketed or tested them that way. They don't want to accept the liability in the off chance that something does go wrong and they said you could do it. I bet the vaseline company would say they don't advise that you soak cotton balls with their product for a fire starter.
Programbo
04-22-2007, 16:56
Soda cans have a plastic coating on the inside. Wikipedia says: "Aluminium cans contain an internal coating to protect the aluminium from the contents. If the internal coating fails, the contents will create a hole and the can will leak in a matter of days."
I don`t know about a "matter of days" but they will be eaten thru..I used to bring cans of Coke back from Vietnam every year because they`d issue 6 different cans each year for New Years and they looked cool but within a couple of months I`d find the cans empty and the soda had eaten a small hole in the bottom somewhere and leaked out..Vietnam appearently doesn`t use or uses a different lining in their cans (They also reuse soda bottles..I don`t mean recycle and make new ones they just wash the old ones out and refill them)
Brrrb Oregon
04-22-2007, 19:11
I don`t know about a "matter of days" but they will be eaten thru..I used to bring cans of Coke back from Vietnam every year because they`d issue 6 different cans each year for New Years and they looked cool but within a couple of months I`d find the cans empty and the soda had eaten a small hole in the bottom somewhere and leaked out..Vietnam appearently doesn`t use or uses a different lining in their cans (They also reuse soda bottles..I don`t mean recycle and make new ones they just wash the old ones out and refill them)
All I know is that the old ones used to take a little strength to crush, while the ones now make it difficult not to dent them just by tipping them up to drink out of them. They tear like paper.....but, you can still stand a chicken on them.
Rhino-lfl
04-24-2007, 09:19
Huh. I think I remember hearing about a coating now. What about on the outside, where you put your mouth? (negligible, but curious)
Oh brother, start worrying about stuff like that and you'll end up like howard hughes lol.
P.S. I'd heard high-grade aluminum/bauxite resources were diminishing, which would make the cost of aluminum increase (far future) as mining the lower-grade rocks is more costly, but I can't find anything supporting that anymore. You wouldn't happen to know?
We will never run out of aluminum. We'll run out of the fuel to keep the aluminum process going before we run out of the resource.
Rhino-lfl
04-24-2007, 09:35
All I know is that the old ones used to take a little strength to crush, while the ones now make it difficult not to dent them just by tipping them up to drink out of them. They tear like paper.....but, you can still stand a chicken on them.
A cans strength is vertically, not horizontally. And ya, cans are many times thinner now than they were in the past. They are also 100% recyclable back to almost 100% pure aluminum. There is actually an on demand special on cans I think you can still watch it.
"...the kill ratio of mother nature against humans is 100%.
Source: Samantha B... John Stewart Show
What happens if you get over-heated in a gore-tex rain suit?
Jester2000
04-24-2007, 18:40
It's enough to make me give up canned soda (I'm still clinging to my favorite anti-perspirant though!)
One would think that the fact that soda eats through cans would make you give up drinking canned soda.
Leave a hard boiled egg in a coke overnight.
You decide whether to put this stuff in your belly!
Not to mention it's risk factors for diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, cancer, and just the addiction factor to buy another COKE!
But some folks dig em on a hot day, not sure why since they dehydrate you more
:)
BTW, i thought wikipedia could be corrected/changed/added to by anyone, no?
Wanderingson
04-25-2007, 09:16
My question is:
Am I at any risk if I wear my tin foil hat when cooking?
Rhino-lfl
04-25-2007, 09:25
My question is:
Am I at any risk if I wear my tin foil hat when cooking?
Only if you don't rotate your head when it's in the fire.
Dances with Mice
04-25-2007, 10:09
One would think that the fact that soda eats through cans would make you give up drinking canned soda.It's a useful fact. If you accidentally swallow a can, drink a soda.
Rain Man
04-25-2007, 21:07
Leave a hard boiled egg in a coke overnight.
You decide whether to put this stuff in your belly!
Not to mention it's risk factors for diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, cancer, and just the addiction factor to buy another COKE!
But some folks dig em on a hot day, not sure why since they dehydrate you more.
Yeah. It's the same for beer! :D
Rain:sunMan
.