Oh Boy

[spittinpigeon]

Saturday, Singe and I hiked up the Money Brook Trail to the Wilbur lean to on Greylock. There's a boy scout troop there, first thing I ask is how many people in the shelter, a scout says five, I do the math and toss my pack in there. Scout asks if I'm a thru-hiker, which I'm glad that I'm still giving off that vibe because I didn't feel like one now that my beard is gone. (yes, I couldn't hang on to it any longer, I tried.)
So the usual questions about my thru follow, and everything seems fine. After Singe shows up, one of the scout leaders asks me where I'm sleeping, I say in the shelter which accomodates 8 people. He asks if we brought tents because there's a spare platform, I say no, and he offers his tent, saying that if these weren't his kids, it would be ok, but ONE of us has to move. Now, my pride starts kicking in, and I'm ready to fight tooth and nail, but there's something amiss. I ask him what his concern is, and in full earshot of the scouts, he says to me "trail molestation", while puffing his chest out trying to look intimidating. I'm just like...STOP, my jaw is on the floor, lost for words. I tell him that I don't know if I should feel insulted or what. Meanwhile, this dude is getting a reading on my gaydar.
Truth of it is, we had two dogs, some **** (yes Matthewski, I'm bringing the **** to New England) and a half gallon of whiskey. We're going to be up all night, and I'd prefer to be away from the scouts anyway. So I tell the guy that I'll comply, but he has to understand where I'm coming from, I tell him this is my trail while I thump my chest to show how much it means to me, and I'm accustomed to sleeping in the shelter, it's suggested that groups shouldn't monopolize shelters, yadda yadda yadda. I didn't say 'my trail' possessively, more like I was trying to get across how much it means to me to be on it. He replies to 'this is my trail' with 'these are my boys', don't worry dude, I know they're your boys, I'm not a diddler.
Next morning, the scout master comes to collect his tent, and thank us for moving, I tell him that he'd better plan on tenting all summer, especially when it's thru-hiker season. He says they'll be down in CT where if one shelter is full, they'll move on to the next, I tell him that thru-hikers sometimes show up in the middle of the night, and if he's THAT sensitive...
So, in retrospect, I realized that the scout leaders slept in the shelter, and would be there to prevent any of his sick worries. However, he was the one thinking of it, and probably viewed us as competition, afterall, the dude was definitely registering on my gaydar, and maybe he didn't want US there to prevent HIM. My conclusion is that he was ashamed of himself for having those thoughts, and in turn projected it onto us.
Now, there are people here who can be my character witnesses, I don't give off the pedophile vibe, there was nothing about me that would clue him in. We were being social, happy and joking around when I first got there. And besides, these kids were around 15, not 9 or 10.
While somebody may be able to confirm this guy's concerns with another story, this was just SCREWED UP! I started to laugh at it, but really, I'm worried about this guy with those, and other kids.
The guy says to me that people are aware of young boys being in the woods, and go out there to try to take advantage, but really... I've heard more stories about Scout leaders doing that than some nomad weekender overpowering two adults to get to five kids.
Tell me your thoughts, I've tried to laugh this off, but if it's still on my mind, it means that something is wrong.

[RadioFreq]

Are you saying that there was only one adult troop leader.....and that he alone shared the shelter with those boys?

[Lone Wolf]

shelters suck is all i have to say

[Alligator]

Even if he was gay, it doesn't mean he was a pedophile.

So between you and the scout leader, you were each thinking the other could be a pedophile. Kinda silly all around.

His thinking he had say over the shelter though is even sillier.

[TN_Hiker]

Are you saying that there was only one adult troop leader.....and that he alone shared the shelter with those boys?

That was exactly my first thought as well. BSA mandates at least two deep leadership and sleeping arrangements are NEVER shared by an adult and youth. My personal feelings are Scouts should always plan on tenting if for nothing else out of respect for others. Scouts are know to be a little loud at times.

[Lion King]

I think Alec Baldwin is hilarious on SNL when he plays the Scout leader.

[Gray Blazer]

We had the best troop leader 456, Clearwater, FL. If we had gone camping on the AT we would have used tents, as I think that troop you met should have been in tents. Now we did have one asst leader who I thought was questionable and it turned out I was right. He was always saying weird things to us and touching our hand funny and saying with the weirdest smile on his face, "What did that feel like?" I always told him I didn't want to play. My Mom set me a clipping from the hometown rag lst year and it turns out this guy is now doing hard time for being a pedophile.

[amigo]

As a former BSA Scoutmaster I can confirm that two deep adult leadership is one of those rules you stringently observe for the protection of both the scouts and the adults. So, there had better have been two adults with that crew. That's for starters. More to the point, I was always acutely aware that a group of scouts can interfere with other people's quiet outdoor experience (although a group of drunken high school or college students is probably worse in that regard) and I always went out of my way to minimize my hiking crews' impacts. That BSA leader should have done his homework and been aware of the rules of use of AT shelters.

As far as the BSA rule about adults not bunking with scouts, that doesn't apply to cabins and an AT shelter would be considered a cabin.

But bottom line, that leader was out of line for hogging the shelter.

I've been backpacking since 1969 (age 14) and this is my first post here. :banana I've wanted to hike the AT since :-? ... 1969.

[The Snowman]

Shelters are not for groups plan and simple. Group site are provided just for this reason to let groupes camp with out being bothered by or bothering other campers.

[Alligator]

Both parties silly.

Party A.

Five people in the scout party. Maybe not BSA?? Anyway, spittinpigeon says [emp. added]
...After Singe shows up, one of the scout leaders asks me where I'm sleeping, I say in the shelter which accomodates 8 people...
In general, groups shouldn't monopolize shelters. But the reason for claiming the shelter is ridiculous. Trail molestation (from a stranger) in a confined space with 4 other group members present seems far-fetched.

Partiers B:cool:.

...Truth of it is, we had two dogs, some **** (yes Matthewski, I'm bringing the **** to New England) and a half gallon of whiskey. We're going to be up all night, and I'd prefer to be away from the scouts anyway...
Why get all puffed up if you wouldn't plan to be in the shelter? Two dogs in the shelter too? And no shelter to pitch on the platform???

I personally wouldn't have cared much, as I would have planned on not sleeping in the shelter, given the late night plan, the two dogs, and the presence of underage teenagers. I probably would have gotten the scout number/location.

[RadioFreq]

I know there are a number of scout leaders (like me) here at WB and they can correct me if I misstep with the following suggestions:

I've noticed a number of posts here re: running into Scouts monopolizing shelters that we all know are there primarily for thru hikers. I get the impression (2nd hand) that these leaders aren't aware of this rule or are choosing to ignore it. If you're not involved with scouts then you probably don't know where to go with your complaint. Doing it here won't help. Here's what I suggest: The only way to correct this is from above. You should call the council these troops belong to and get this to their chief executive. How do you find out which council they belong to? Well, if they are wearing their scout shirts note the troop number on their sleeve and above it should be a council shoulder patch. That's all the info. you need...no need for names or home towns. If they aren't wearing scout shirts then all you can do is ask. Once you get back to a 'puter you can Google the council name. Most councils have a website with contact information. Then you can relay your complaint. Be prepared to back your complaint with sources for the "thru hikers get shelters first" rules. If enough people complain any decent council will issue a note (via monthly Roundtbles perhaps) reminding/educating all leaders what the shelters are for and that they should be bringing their own tents anyway. Scout leaders who backpack should reinforce this at their Roundtables...your word carries even more weight.

As for this specific situation there is one exception to the rule barring an adult sharing sleeping space with a scout and that is if the adult is the boy's parent/guardian....at least that's the only one I know of. But the adult should only share sleeping space/tent with his son, not any other boys. If this group only had one adult leader on their outing AND he was sharing the shelter with the boys (besides his son) then he should be reported to his council office immediately...or as soon as you can get off the trail and get to a phone! Those are two really big violations of scouting safety guidelines. I would even go so far as to report this to the national office in Texas. They are very sensitive to this type of thing. Besides protecting the kids they don't want the bad PR.

That's my two cents.
RadioFreq
Current Asst. Scoutmaster
Former (10 years) Scoutmaster
Former Roundtable ADC
Current Dist. Camping Chair

[Alligator]

I'm sure spittinpigeon will clarify, but he did write leaders twice.

So, if I saw say two leaders and three scouts, no guardian/ward relationships sleeping in an AT shelter, then the troop should be reported? Amigo says it would qualify as a cabin:confused: .

[gold bond]

When our troop plans a hike on the AT we only take the older boys. 13, first class and at least two shake down hikes. That usually amounts to about 8-9 boys with 4 adults.Usually depending on whether band or football or any other sporting event is going on we will take about that many boys. I let at least two or maybe three depending on the time of year as well as the"trail load" or the amount of hikers on the trail, stay in the shelter. At least one adult has to be in the shelter on the other side. I want the boys to experience trail life as much as possible and hopefully one day maybe one them will tru hike the AT.If there are alot of hikers or there are thru hikers they get first choice and only if there is room will I let my boys do this. We usually try to hike in October- November time frame so we usually do not have alot of problems.
That being said...I do have a few observations about your story.
The AT is what it is...a place where you should always expect the unexpected.You should always be ready to be flexable.Whether you are a scoutmaster with a group of boys or a solo hiker you should always try and be flexable. I teach my boys that courtesy is always the best way!What is the differance between a group of 5-6 hikers that have been hiking all day together coming in to a shelter and a group of 5-6 scouts that have been hiking all day together coming into a shelter?I was a Muskrat shelter over Easter with two friends when a group of 3 girls and four guys came in and pitched a fit because there was only room for two more. Because they were thru hikers they felt like only they should be allowed to stay in the shelter! I said what I had to say and started to collect my stuff when they came back and said never mind, they would tent it.Who was right?I was always under the impression first come first served.
Next, ALL SCOUTMASTERS have to submitt their SSN and a complete FBI/SLED national background check is completed. They as well have to do youth protection training every two years. Is it full proof...I doubt it but it has worked as far as I know.The Boy Scouting program is the ONLY program that requires this. Church groups,Girl Scouts, RA's, or most other programs that I know of do not require this.If for any reason this SM charactor is in question by anyone to include other SM, parents,chatered organazation reps, the council the district, he would be suspended so fast his head would spin!I hope that there were at least TWO SM there! If not please let me know. I can get this info to the people that needs to know. That is soooo unacceptle. YOU MUST HAVE TWO DEEP LEADERSHIP...at least two adults over the age of twenty-one.We always have three...wonder if something happens to one of them, with three you will always have two.
Last...if you had showed up with whiskey in hand and whatever****is, I think I know, we would have had a friendly chat as well.Just as it is your right to do it, it is my right not to have it around the boys.I'm sure we could have come to a friendly agreement as I'm sure as adults we would not want to expose the boys to that.I love to have a shot of brandy at the end of the day as well...when I do not have the boys!
I think you missed a great opportunity to amaze the boys with your knowledge of the AT as well as hiking.I'm sure you have a few good stories that would have had them going back to there troops and telling everyone that missed the hike what a great time they missed!You had a chance to share some experiences with the boys as well as the SM that they may never get again.Those are the experiences that we tell the boys only scouting can offer.You had them from the minute you walked in...you stated they started asking if you were a thru hiker.....you had their respect from the get go!
You stated that it was "your trail"...really! The one thing that the SM was right about tho...they were his boys! As far as chests bowing out....well sounds as though we had a small testrone spill on isle 3!
I think that if you two were to go back and rehash this whole thing both of you would learn something.

[Lone Wolf]

I've noticed a number of posts here re: running into Scouts monopolizing shelters that we all know are there primarily for thru hikers. I get the impression (2nd hand) that these leaders aren't aware of this rule or are choosing to ignore it. Be prepared to back your complaint with sources for the "thru hikers get shelters first" rules.

thru-hikers absolutely DO NOT have priority in ANY shelter on the AT. Shelters are first come, first served. Period.

[RadioFreq]

I'm sure spittinpigeon will clarify, but he did write leaders twice.

So, if I saw say two leaders and three scouts, no guardian/ward relationships sleeping in an AT shelter, then the troop should be reported? Amigo says it would qualify as a cabin:confused: .

My understanding is that they should not be sharing sleeping space....doesn't matter if there are only three walls and a roof.

[Photofanatic]

I have a tent and like my tent but when a shelter is empty I will kick back there a while. I believe that I have read or was told that 1. The shelters are there for anyone who needs shelter. 2. The shelter is not full until everyone who needs shelter has shelter. 3. In the smokies 3 spots are reserved for thru hikers in each shelter each night. Are there rules concerning the shelter system somewhere on the internet?

[jesse]

radio freq

[jesse]

radio freq

You should call the council these troops belong to and get this to their chief executive.

Sorry for the double post!

My suggestion for anyone who shows up at a full shelter is to get over it. There is no reason to go crying to council or anybody else. Its not their shelter. These people need to get a life.

[ShakeyLeggs]

Per the ATC FAQ page;

More than 250 backcountry shelters are located along the Appalachian Trail at varying intervals, as a service to all A.T. users. A typical shelter, sometimes called a “lean-to,” has a shingled or metal roof, a wooden floor and three walls and is open to the elements on one side. Most are near a creek or spring, and many have a privy nearby. Hikers occupy them on a first-come, first-served basis until the shelter is full. They are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do. Many shelters are near good campsites for tenting.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.809945/k.C824/FAQ.htm

[Skidsteer]

Per the ATC FAQ page;

More than 250 backcountry shelters are located along the Appalachian Trail at varying intervals, as a service to all A.T. users. A typical shelter, sometimes called a “lean-to,” has a shingled or metal roof, a wooden floor and three walls and is open to the elements on one side. Most are near a creek or spring, and many have a privy nearby. Hikers occupy them on a first-come, first-served basis until the shelter is full. They are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do. Many shelters are near good campsites for tenting.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.809945/k.C824/FAQ.htm

You folks that like to stay in shelters ought to print that on business cards and hand them out to group leaders if they try to railroad you. :p

[gold bond]

Why would anyone no matter what the "book" says go hiking in the back country without a tarp or tent? Just because the "book" says there is a "creek or Spring" doesn't always mean there is water! Just because there is a shelter doesn't mean there is space.If it is full of "individual hikers" or full of four "groups" of two hikers what is the differance? What if it is full of 2 "groups" of three's and a "group" of two, does one "group" of the three have to yield to the "individual" hiker coming in?
If the shelter is first come first serve what is the problem here? If it is intended as the "book" says for "individual hikers" what happens if your hiking with a friend? I usually hike with three friends. We've been hiking for 4 yrs together. Are we "individual" or are we a "group"? What constitutes a "big group"? It was stated that there was only five in the shelter. I hope that the scoutmaster wasn't saying that the only people allowed in the shelter was his five. If that be the true, yes the SM was wrong, but I still would like to know what the definition of a "big" group compared to a group of hikers is.Why would an individual hiker not have the "resource" that a group of hikers has? If I and my three friends are already set up in the shelter along with some other hikers and there is no space left and a hiker comes up, do one of us have to get out and set up our tent because we have one and the "individual" hiker is not expected to have that "resource"?
If I was going to take a half gallon of whiskey and **** and liked to be away from everyone anyway, why am I even in this situation?

[Lion King]

Yes, they are first come first serve, absolutely.

But if you insist on having a gigantic group with you, be it scouts, a college class, a high school spring break trip, the Shriners Hiking Conevention whatever...use common sense and tent away from the shelter.

If not for the room, for the courtesy of others who may actually be out there for an outdoor experiance, or some quiet time at the least..but if that were the case they would tent, or better yet cowboy camp as far from a shelter as possible.

Shelters are social places and I dig hanging around them till all are asleep just for the laughs, but I tent, usually far away from them now, unles there is some kind of major water issue.

The reason..

A) I dont like people to wake me up with tomorrows planning at 3 a.m. because they cant sleep and they want to discuss it with their buddy.

B) SNORERS!!!!!!!!!!! My disdain is world reknown.

C) Calls of Nature all night from 5-10 people will make you get up, be it from the noise of someone who doesnt know they move like a rhino in heat, or from the often used, but seldom needed headlamp right in your eyes...for some god awful reason.

D) Unless Im tenting, for some reason I like to sleep in. And shelters dont allow for that. Ever.

E) Neverending Farts, which are funny unless soemone ate far too much Tuna fish

F) Everyone keeps different hours..some like to talk till 1 am, some like to read till 11 some like to wake up hours before the sun is up and crinkle every piece of plastic they have as long and loud as they can and then they are the last ones to leave....

G) Night Terrors..if you havent had the Joy of being in a shelter with someone who has really bad night terrors, you my friend, have not yet lived. terror-fying indeed.

H) Loud Ipods or cellphones or alarms that Accidentally go off at strange hours.

I) People getting upset because they cant find their gear, which they already packed, yet they insist that the other persons gear that looks like theirs is not the other hikers...this is always fun to listen to in the morning. Know your gear.

J) Privy lines...nothing worse.

K) People who murky up the water source because they just dont have any common sense...again, lines for water if its a small source...especailly annoying if you dont filter and you have to wait on 10 people to slowly pump water.

L) The friggin smell...wow.

M) People burning holes in the shelter with thier alcohol stove and acting like its no biggy, or worse, they spill their fuel on your socks while they are lighting and your stuff gets burned to a cinder, and again...they act like its no biggy.

N) Snorers, worth mentioning twice.

[Gray Blazer]

Saturday, Singe and I hiked up the Money Brook Trail to the Wilbur lean to on Greylock. There's a boy scout
Truth of it is, we had two dogs, some **** (yes Matthewski, I'm bringing the **** to New England) and a half gallon of whiskey. We're going to be up all night, and I'd prefer to be away from the scouts anyway.

I missed this part. It makes this thread moot. You shouldn't b.o.b.e. around boy scouts, much less drink whiskey and no Bob Evansing!

[Programbo]

Neither you nor the scouts should have been in the shelter :D

[spittinpigeon]

Even if he was gay, it doesn't mean he was a pedophile.

So between you and the scout leader, you were each thinking the other could be a pedophile. Kinda silly all around.

His thinking he had say over the shelter though is even sillier.


Are you saying that because you are gay? Or you failed to see that I based my conclusion on more than him being gay, or both?
Once again, in usual whiteblaze style, everyone who replied missed at least one point. I would think that I have poor story telling skills, but I don't have that problem anywhere but here.

[Dances with Mice]

Saturday I drove some stuff up to Cloud 9 then headed out to spend the night in the mountains. First I drove down to Neels Gap intending to camp on Blood. The Blood Mtn parking lot was overfull - all spaces were taken and cars were starting to double park on the little ring road. A car in front of me was creeping along as a passenger walked in front scouting for a spot they might squeeze into. I was in my big ol' van and knew I wasn't squeezing nowhere and I didn't want to do the double park thing. So I swung back onto the road and drove over to Bull Pen Gap instead.

That parking lot was pretty full too. Geez, I know how to pick'em. But I pulled into a spot on the grass beside the parking area, grabbed the pack and headed up and over to Whitley Gap. Didn't matter where I spent the night so much, and at Whitley I wouldn't have to haul water like I would up to Blood.

A tent city had sprung up at Whitley. Scouts everywhere. About 20 boys, 6 adults. All the boys were in tents. A couple adults had their stuff in the shelter. I sat down to think about whether I wanted to stay or not. I'd passed a couple of camping spots on the ridge leading to Whitley, I could just grab water and walk back up to the ridge to spend the night alone. But I chatted with the leaders and got a good vibe from the situation so I set up my tent. A couple hiking the GA section also showed up and tented nearby.

I had a great time. As it turned out I camped among the first year patrol, the youngest Scouts. The older boys were further away from the shelter. The two adults with the young patrol slept in the shelter so there was plenty of room but I'd always intended to sleep in my tent. I had a flask with me but didn't flash it around and made an adult beverage mixture in my water bottle and no one was the wiser. Well, as far as I know - I didn't try to hide my flask but I didn't wave it around either. I showed the adults my alcohol stove and they were interested. Later that night I demonstrated the fine art of live coal juggling, violating every Scout fire safety regulation in existence. But, hey, I'm not a Scout and it wasn't my Troop!

Were they loud? Oh, yeah. But the kids were in bed and quiet very early - they'd spent the day hiking.

Turned out one of those adults was a world-class snorer and even though I was tenting apart I still had to dig out my ear plugs that night. The other adult in the shelter gave up after a while, walked down the trail some and cowboy camped on the ground to get a night's sleep. How come those who snore loudest always seem to fall asleep first?

The Troop was up early and out the next morning. After they left I took a walk through the area. The shelter area was the cleanest I'd seen it in a long time, all trash had been scoured and the shelter swept clean. Kudos to Troop 205 from Cumming, Georgia. It was great to see that many kids having fun in the woods.

So I had a different experience than the original poster. I stayed at the shelter by my own choice and didn't distance myself from the Troop.

[spittinpigeon]

Ok, let's just address everything in one post. Yes there were two leaders. When he confronted me, I didn't know about the second empty tent platform, and hadn't really made up my mind yet. He caught me by surprise with the outrageous things he said, and I completely forgot about the whiskey until a little later, at which time I did a 180 and moved my stuff, because of THAT reason, but I was still pissed about what he said.
I do believe in first come first serve, the whole group was only seven people, what I've seen as far as guidelines go in almost all 14 states, is that groups of ten or more should tent. My biggest thing was that there was extra room in there, and he asked me to move with that sick story.
Whoever said I 'missed out on a great opportunity'... umm you missed out on the part where their troop leader asked me to leave, and it was because of molestation, not because of whiskey, he didn't even know about it.

[aaronthebugbuffet]

MTV shoud do one of their "reality shows" at a shelter.
More drama than The Real World.
Shelters suck.

[Jester2000]

Not to bash on Scouts, but. . .OK, I suppose I'm going to bash on Scouts.

I was at Gettysburg this past Saturday, which was positively littered with Scouts. This was cool. It was nice to see them all out there, soaking up the history and the beautiful day.

Except.

I was waiting to use the bathroom near Devil's Den (that's a funny sentence), which was full of scouts getting water and horsing around. Not a problem. I waited patiently, until one of the leaders told me "you can just go in there. It's nothing they haven't seen before (this, by the way, was a bathroom designed for single occupancy).

What I wanted to say was "I know in your Scout-centric world the solution to 'scouts screwing around in the bathroom while someone waits' might seem to be 'just go in there with them,' but the actual solution is you telling them to clear out of the bathroom."

Instead, I said, "yeah, well they may have seen it all before, but they've never smelled what I'm planning on doing in there."

Another one of the leaders got the point and told them to "have their meeting outside."

Generally speaking, I think Scouting is great. But every once in a while, they forget that not everyone is into what they're doing, and everyone need not defer to them.

Full disclosure: I once said something very rude to a bunch of Scouts at High Point Shelter. I was out of line and have regretted it ever since. Turns out we're all human. . .

[Programbo]

I personally don`t think scouts should be in shelters in large groups..I`ve heard the "groups of 10" thing myself but I always thought it said that groups of 10 or more couldn`t even be on the trail???..I don`t think a group of even more than 4 should monopolize an entire shelter...But at the same time I don`t think people with dogs should be in shelters...But I DO get your point and you did tell the story well..You were trying to impress upon us this scout master coming off with the molestation story on you as his grounds for not sharing the shelter which was wrong

[Alligator]

Are you saying that because you are gay? Just goes to show your gaydar is pathetic.

Or you failed to see that I based my conclusion on more than him being gay, or both?
Once again, in usual whiteblaze style, everyone who replied missed at least one point. I would think that I have poor story telling skills, but I don't have that problem anywhere but here.

The SM asked you to move due to worry about "trail molestation". From there you say your gaydar was going off. You explain your expectations of shelter to the SM. Next thing you know, your speculating that he's a pedophile. If you based that on anything other than your gaydar, you failed to present it. I'll give you that the reason given by the SM was ridiculous, but the other half of the story, you thinking the guy was a pedophile was completely unsubstantiated. There were two scoutmasters there.

Given that there were already seven people in the 8 person shelter, it's hard to feel much sympathy when you were wanting to squeeze two more hikers plus two dogs so that you could stay up and party. If the weather was lousy you failed to mention that too. And the part about you not having a usable shelter doesn't help any.

Again, both groups acted silly.

[Pokey2006]

I like that idea. Relaying correct information, and educating someone, will do more to teach a misguided troop leader about how it's SUPPOSED to work, than will that whole "this is MY trail" pissing contest stuff. Puffing out the chest is only going to turn him off to the facts.

That said, why bring a group of kids out into the woods if they're not gonna sleep in tents??? Isn't that the whole point? Or at least half the fun? Kids love to camp, and sleeping in a shelter isn't the same thing.

And this shelter wasn't full, so this guy fit into the first-come, first-serve rule.

[spittinpigeon]

Just goes to show your gaydar is pathetic.


The SM asked you to move due to worry about "trail molestation". From there you say your gaydar was going off. You explain your expectations of shelter to the SM. Next thing you know, your speculating that he's a pedophile. If you based that on anything other than your gaydar, you failed to present it. I'll give you that the reason given by the SM was ridiculous, but the other half of the story, you thinking the guy was a pedophile was completely unsubstantiated. There were two scoutmasters there.

Given that there were already seven people in the 8 person shelter, it's hard to feel much sympathy when you were wanting to squeeze two more hikers plus two dogs so that you could stay up and party. If the weather was lousy you failed to mention that too. And the part about you not having a usable shelter doesn't help any.

Again, both groups acted silly.

Thanks for proving my point, both of you, that you have no paragraph comprehension. There were five people in the shelter. And Pokey, read that part about 'This is my trail' again. Thank you! Thank you! I'll be here all week!
Actually, no I won't, this has the telltale signs of a bonafide flame war, and that is my cue to duck out. Feel free to have the last word (you know you want to;) ), but it's futile talking to you, you weren't there, don't know all the "ins and outs", (to quote The Dude...the REAL dude), it's like talking to Republicans. G'NIGHT!

[hopefulhiker]

I cant believe it was an issue because the fact that they brouht a half gallon of liqour with them and were evern considering sitting around getting wasted in a shelter with a bunch of kids.... Also how is one adult going to molest five kids at the same time? It sounds like a bunch of baloney to me....

[EWS]

Was no one here ever around adults having a few drinks when they were growing up?:confused:

[Alligator]

...Truth of it is, we had two dogs, some **** (yes Matthewski, I'm bringing the **** to New England) and a half gallon of whiskey. We're going to be up all night, and I'd prefer to be away from the scouts anyway. So I tell the guy that I'll comply, but he has to understand where I'm coming from, I tell him this is my trail while I thump my chest to show how much it means to me, and I'm accustomed to sleeping in the shelter, it's suggested that groups shouldn't monopolize shelters, yadda yadda yadda....


...
Ok, let's just address everything in one post. Yes there were two leaders. When he confronted me, I didn't know about the second empty tent platform, and hadn't really made up my mind yet. He caught me by surprise with the outrageous things he said, and I completely forgot about the whiskey until a little later, at which time I did a 180 and moved my stuff, because of THAT reason, but I was still pissed about what he said. ...
I can't comprehend your story because you aren't telling it straight. You were planning on being up all night, yet you forgot about your whiskey (and your ****:-?)? I have a hard time believing the forgetting part. Maybe if you were already high.

This is how I understand it. Quote me if you like. Saturday you hiked up to the shelter with your friend, two dogs, a 1/2 gallon of whiskey, some ****, and no shelter [you ended up using the SM's]. At least 5 people were in the shelter, at least three boy scouts, yet you decided that your group, 2 people and 2 dogs, were going to stay there. This is before the SM said anything according to you.

Now, I don't have any problem with the staying up late and partying, but the presence of the scouts is a great indicator that you should have moved beyond the shelter given your intentions. Call me crazy for suggesting it, but I have reservations about two drunk and high hikers with strange dogs inside a shelter of boy scouts. And frankly I was worried about you too. The overwhelming information you provided regarding the SM suggests he's a dangerous sexual predator, you're lucky he didn't diddle you:eek::banana ;) .

[Gray Blazer]

(to quote The Dude...the REAL dude), it's like talking to Republicans. G'NIGHT!

Yeah, it does sound like the crap republicans have to put up with a lot. Now that you mention it.:rolleyes: You haven't been flamed, but you deciced to jump on the flame republican bandwagon. What's up with that, oh, I forgot you bowed out (is that like cut and run?)

[gold bond]

Hey Jester have you ever been to Disney Land on Vacation?

Let's not lose sight of the whole thing about scouts....we are talking about "boys"! Yes young boys...boys who still like to have a good time...yes even horse around in the bathroom! Boy's who are excited about being anywhere but in the class room. These "boys" are sitting their butts in a seat for eight hours a day and still have to go home and do 3 hrs of homework! Most of these "boys" spend any free time they have pleasing dad by going to some lame sporting practice and doing their best to make first string so dad will get off their backside.
Either alot of yall have never had kids or have lost sight of how to deal with them or have just forgot what it was like to be one!
I urge any of you who disagree or feel you can do better with the "boys" to volunteer with a scout unit for six months....if you think you dare to!

[Jester2000]

Hey Jester have you ever been to Disney Land on Vacation?

Let's not lose sight of the whole thing about scouts....we are talking about "boys"! Yes young boys...boys who still like to have a good time...yes even horse around in the bathroom! Boy's who are excited about being anywhere but in the class room. These "boys" are sitting their butts in a seat for eight hours a day and still have to go home and do 3 hrs of homework! Most of these "boys" spend any free time they have pleasing dad by going to some lame sporting practice and doing their best to make first string so dad will get off their backside.
Either alot of yall have never had kids or have lost sight of how to deal with them or have just forgot what it was like to be one!
I urge any of you who disagree or feel you can do better with the "boys" to volunteer with a scout unit for six months....if you think you dare to!

If you'll read my post again, you'll notice that my frustration had little to do with the "boys" present, but rather with the "men" supervising them. I waited patiently and said nothing to the boys, expecting their "leader," who was standing next to me, to do something other than suggest I go in and drop my pants in front of his "boys."

And you can ask any of my friends if I've forgotten what it's like to be a kid.

[Jester2000]

These "boys" are sitting their butts in a seat for eight hours a day and still have to go home and do 3 hrs of homework!

PS -- Unless they've been very bad, no child in America is sitting at school for eight hours per day.

[mweinstone]

i would tell the leader what an ass he was makeing of himself and demand he do whatever he needed to protect his wards and tell him that you will do what is nessisary to keep from embarrassing him. then if he still stood his ground, i would turn to the children and make a scary anouncement that you are being forced off the campsite and that your fearful of there leader and to not sleep till they are safe and home. then i would ask for his id. copy it and call his wife.tell her , your hubbys an ass.

[mweinstone]

my son max had 35 days of suspention , a million sat detentions and 18 months probation so far this year alone. he had a 26 a 27 and a 23 in three majors twice and hes fine to graduate and admits nothing. kids. ya cant live with em, ya cant kill em.

[mweinstone]

ive spent good quality time with beater(spittin), and hes not even capable of disrespect. he would be the first to not drink around them. and he was. and he looks and acts straight a. so this guy was an ass. plain and simple. anyone who tells beater diferently is treating him like a rape victim who knowone belives. please. the leaders words speak volumes of diareah. we know he was a devil. possibly a pedifile? yes.very. i was molested and so were most people. we are the majority. we just dont all say it. so its happening every second.

[Ramble~On]

There are adult leaders involved in scouting that shouldn't be.
Everything a Scout "IS" this person was not.
Any group planning to use a shelter should plan on sharing the shelter or plan on not using it...first come first served and if some scrunching together will allow another person to fit...people need to scrunch.
I probably wouldn't have stayed in that shelter either..I don't care for shelters all that much if I don't "have" to use them.
But I would have told that adult leader that I wasn't affraid of him or his scouts raping me but thanks for his concern. I also would have pondered what kind of behavior he was teaching these boys out in the woods even mentioning that I would need to worry about molestation. If his standards were such and such perceived threats dictated sleeping arrangements perhaps having those boys in a public sleeping area was a poor call on his part.
The last thing any hiker needs at the end of a long hard day..or a nice, short day of hiking is to be greeted at a shelter with B.S. like this or barking, growling dogs etc.
I've been involved with scouting for a number of years and plan to be for more years.....I've seen good adult leadership and I've seen far worse than this instance. Scout age boys are out to have fun..that's a big part of it but that fun is a good reason to camp away from others. Camping and hiking with scouts is about teaching them how to camp and how to hike....staying at a shelter is the "easy way out", it's not "camping". When I was a scout we didn't stay in the shelters...we stayed in the tents we carried or under the stars or tarps.

[gold bond]

Ok Jester, 8AM to 3:30 PM...7 and a half..sorry! Also I wasn't trying to say you were blaming the boys..I'm sorry for that statement. What I was trying to say is as a scout leader myself it is hard to take a handful,10-15 "boys" and make them behave as an "adult". Heck half the time their own parents don't make them mind! We only have them for an hour a week.
One point I was trying to make though is by the time these boys are 11 years old and in the 6th grade their wiz's on the computer! Their doing powerpoint presentations and chemistry. The outdoors is all new. It's like trying to teach an adult about the outdoors. We have fathers that help out from time to time and it is so frustrating at times. Heck most times they wine more than the boys!
I don't want anyone to misunderstand me...if the info at the beginning is all correct neither one of the guy's were in the right.As two Adults they should have excused their selves and discussed it away from the boys. The SM was probably told by someone that this was a great place to take his boys and without getting all the correct info the SM went..that makes him wrong! The rest is history!
Do keep one thing in mind...scouting units are "boy led" The adults are there but try to let the older boys keep the younger ones in line. Sometimes it looks like a 3 ring circus but it is a learning experience for everyone involved. All I ask is for patience and understanding with the leaders...they ain't a gettin' paid for what they do!

[Appalachian Tater]

i would tell the leader what an ass he was makeing of himself and demand he do whatever he needed to protect his wards and tell him that you will do what is nessisary to keep from embarrassing him. then if he still stood his ground, i would turn to the children and make a scary anouncement that you are being forced off the campsite and that your fearful of there leader and to not sleep till they are safe and home. then i would ask for his id. copy it and call his wife.tell her , your hubbys an ass.

For once, I agree with mweinstone. That would have been perfect.

What a jerk. Certainly you had as much right to be in the shelter as they had. Even if they had been girl scouts.

But not to worry, the leader could not have been a homosexual pedophile, because the scouts don't allow homosexual men to be leaders.

[Rhino-lfl]

For once, I agree with mweinstone. That would have been perfect.

What a jerk. Certainly you had as much right to be in the shelter as they had. Even if they had been girl scouts.

But not to worry, the leader could not have been a homosexual pedophile, because the scouts don't allow homosexual men to be leaders.

mmm girlscouts :D

Cookies that is.

[Wanderingson]

So where in the hell did the rubber duckies come from anyway?