View Full Version : Questions for an '08 throu-hike
Hi guyes, I have been lurking for about a year, and have finaly decided to do a throu-hike attampt next year ('08), and have begun to make plans accordingly. I am in the prossess of revising my budget to save up the cash for the trip, revewing my gear and seeing what I can eliminate and lighten. I got a Hennasy and am going to get a larger tarp, lighter pad (insulation mostly),ect.
On to my questions:
How often do you throu-hikers build campfires? and is it worth packing a hatchet?
How many of you
A; carries maps ans compas, and
B; had a use for one or the other,
C; had eather map or compas and never used eather, or didn't have eather map or compas and needed one?
There are several "guiedbooks" avalable (throu-hikers companion, Wingfoot's, ATC's ect), which one(s) get the most use, or are the most usfull. If you had to choose only one, which one would it be?
What piece of gear did you start with and regret having or discard?
What pece of gear did you not have and regret not having or add durring the hike?
Has any of you tried "foraging" (gathering eddible plants and such to supplament or replace packed food? Is doing so leagl?
At what points do most peopla drop out and for what reason? (baring severe injury)
What one trate (if any) would you say defines a successfull throu-hiker versus aan unsuccessfull one?
Thanks!
ps, who do I PM to chjange my screen name?
Maps are an individual thing. Some say you should always carry a map, others feel it creates unnecessary expectations. I like em cos they are a source of information and conversation. Always nice while on a break to bust out a map and reconnoiter.
It wasn't a piece of equipment I regretted carrying but too much food. Good planning and flexibility go a long way.
I wished I had brought a small winter cap. (Easily remedied). Even on the warmest day, at night after the earth and your body have cooled down, a hat came in handy to make things more comfortable.
Fire memories are distorted. I always remember fire nights more than those without. I know, I went weeks without, and then would have days in a row of ragers. Really depends on weather and social conditions. But a hatchet is unneccessary. A couple I hiked with had a 2 oz. saw that worked awesome but never saw the likes of it in a store. For the most part, downed limbs are plentiful.
Barring injuries, I would say that the thing that pulls most off the trail is unmet expectations. Tis not what they thought it would be.
Good luck.
Appalachian Tater
04-30-2007, 20:07
Whenever there was cool weather and fires were allowed, there were fires. Usually there's a firepit. If camping away from an established site with a firepit, you might not want to build a fire. Some of my best thru-hiking memories were sitting around fires BS'ing.
You don't need a hatchet, as Yahtzee said--it's too heavy anyway. If a limb is too fresh or big to break, just burn it in the middle and push the ends into the fire, or burn one end. Firewood is generally plentiful, especially if you pick it up coming back to camp from a water supply.
Just make sure your fires are out. You will find many fires still hot under the ash, fortunately mostly in firepits.
Foraged for berries and tried boiling fiddle-head fern but they were bitter. Don't plan on any foraging as a source of food unless you're looking in hiker boxes, and even then you would likely be disappointed.
A lot of people drop out in the beginning, and it seems a lot drop out at Harpers Ferry. One guy broke his wrist going up Katahdin in 2006, after having started in Key West. In addition to the unmet expectations and injuries, a lack of money stopped more than a few.
Never saw anyone needing or using a compass. On the AT you don't need a map if you have a guidebook unless there's an emergency. I think profile maps are generally terror-invoking anyway because of the distorted scale. There are gear lists and information all over this site. If you do a northbound they have everything you need at Neels Gap if you find you're missing something. As long as you can safely keep warm and have enough to eat, it would be better to start out with too little than too much.
Get a proposed gear list together, with weights, and post it here, and you will get great advice.
Well lets see; Hear is my gear list, although I don't know the individual weights
My pack is a Gregory Forister (large)-I am thinking of getting a lighter pack
sleeping bag is a Kelty Arete- +15 rated down
hennasy explorer hammock-+4 msr aluminum steaks (medium rare)
MSR titanium 2 quart pot and a titanium seara cup
MSR sweet water filter-I am going to replace this with a "just drink" filter
Cammleback 3 qt water blater (whick I will remove the cover from)
1 qt nalageen collapsable water bottle (may get a second)
pepsi can alcahol stove (no alcohol just yet) with windscreen from my old wisperlight
Msr camp towle
match case and matches/lighter
couple of light sticks
minni led light with both push to light and a switch for handsfree on-going to glue an alagator clip onto it
50ft para-cord
combination spork-spreader
gerber multi-tool
plastic spade-tp
rei super-ultra light thermarest type pad (mostly for insulation in the henassy as well as the rair on-ground experience.
pioneering compass
small bottle of skin-so-soft bug repellent
hand sanatiser (small)
bio-degradable soap (also small)
I think thats it.
not packed;
fleese sweater, wight blase t-shirts 2, convertable pants from rei, about 4 pairs of smartwool socks and a couple changes of unmentionables
yet to get;
water bag
first-aid kit (basic)
lightweight parka/polypro longs
So far without food, water or a change of clothes my pack weighs about 23 pounds.
Forgot about the hat- I have a canvas type adventure hat from rei, thinking about replacing with a gortex.
and I have a pair of trek poles.
and several "shore to summit" waterproof ultralight stuffsacks
Hellow...wnyone out there?
RockStar
05-16-2007, 00:11
How many of you
A;I carry a guidebook, This time I will carry the Thru-Hikers Companion.
C; Have a tiny compass on my Thermometer but, never needed it.
The Thru-Hikers Companion proceeds go to the trail...I can't see myself buying another edition of Thru-Hikers Handbook.
Gear I ditched:
I started with a small but, still too big, First Aid Kit. Now I have some dental floss(for teeth adn thread) a kneedle, 4 antibacterial band aids, and stuff for my feet, and stuff for bug bites.
Also I didn't wear my thermal pants. Though I didn't change into dry clothes either for sleeping in. So I will most likely add them back.
Gear Regrets:
My Rain jacket is a "Shell" and I regretted not having a down vest or heavier Rain jacket. I also regretted not using a Platypus for my water. I now have a 2L Big Zip for easier cleaning. I hated stopping to fumble with my Nalgene.
I also bought an Outdoor Research Stuff sack for my food! Wet food is NOT cool. It already smells like funk!
Has any of you tried "foraging" (gathering eddible plants and such to supplament or replace packed food? Is doing so leagl?
Yes, I found M&M's and Reeses pieces on the trail daily and ate them! Literally!
At what points do most peopla drop out and for what reason? (baring severe injury)
It is said that 50% leave at Neels Gap, some of which is b/c a lot of ppl only do the first 40 miles for Spring Break. Then another 50% by or at Damascus, then another 50% at Harpers ferry. This is what I have HEARD and observed through my own experience and reading trail journals. A LOT of ppl get bored and decide to do it in section hikes.
What one trate (if any) would you say defines a successfull throu-hiker versus aan unsuccessfull one?
If at any point you feel like you have something "better" to do. I had something better to do rather than continue struggling for mileage with injury. I came home, Im doing better, and will try again...Unless I win the Lotto...then I might pay a Sherpa to backpack me tot he top of Everest.;) THAT would be something "better" for me to do! :p
Time To Fly 97
05-16-2007, 09:34
How often do you throu-hikers build campfires? and is it worth packing a hatchet?
Too much weight. Take a dead branch and use a forked tree to lever off firewood
How many of you
A; carries maps ans compas, and
Yes
B; had a use for one or the other,
Map frequently - I like to know what's around me. Compass - not so much - good for getting back to your tent after a party : )
C; had eather map or compas and never used eather, or didn't have eather map or compas and needed one?
There are several "guiedbooks" avalable (throu-hikers companion, Wingfoot's, ATC's ect), which one(s) get the most use, or are the most usfull. If you had to choose only one, which one would it be?
My only experience is with Wingfoots and I loved it. Just took a section at a time and sent the rest up in my resupply boxes.
What piece of gear did you start with and regret having or discard?
Started with a tent. Switched to a silnylon tarp which I used for the rest of the AT. You fall asleep watching the rain or a sunset rather than being a "hiker in a bubble." Lighter too.
What pece of gear did you not have and regret not having or add durring the hike?
Leki hiking poles. They are awesome.
Has any of you tried "foraging" (gathering eddible plants and such to supplament or replace packed food? Is doing so leagl?
This would take a lot of time. Mostly you hike and you will need some serious caloric intake to keep your body on track. I did supplement my dinners a few times in Maine with freshwater muscles from some of the larger ponds - but this was more for fun. This legal - but for LNT sake, you would want to go off trail a ways to forage.
At what points do most peopla drop out and for what reason? (baring severe injury)
Hikers just kinda dissappear and then you hear someone say they got off or read it in a register entry. It all comes down to each person's experience. I think your body goes through a major change in Virginia where you go from athlete to super athlete. This makes you insanely tired out, chemically imbalanced, etc. Once you get throught his, you have like super saratonin that fills you with joy for the rest of the hike. Finishing the AT is an experience worth going for. It will change your life.
What one trate (if any) would you say defines a successfull throu-hiker versus aan unsuccessfull one?
If you are looking for goodness in people, beauty around you and want to see Kharma/God's love in action you will find kindred spirits all along the AT.
Happy hiking!
TTF
JustPassinThru
05-16-2007, 11:03
If you're going solo, I'd change-out the 2-qt MSR Titan for their .85 liter.
You probably won't need a cup, and if you do, use the cook pot.
If you're starting in the spring, I'd recommend using a canister stove till you get to Virginia. You'll want something that will heat water quickly.
After the weather warms-up a bit an alcohol stove is more than adequate.
Get rid of the filter all together and use either Aqua Mira or bleach.
If using bleach; 2 drops per quart and let stand for 30 minutes.
Forget the spade, carry and use a snow-stake. It weighs an ounce.
You'll need rain gear. Our Frogg Toggs worked but they're not very durable.
Definitely get hiking poles.
I notice that you're from Maryland. Where at?
JustPassinThru
GA2ME05
If you're going solo, I'd change-out the 2-qt MSR Titan for their .85 liter.
You probably won't need a cup, and if you do, use the cook pot.
If you're starting in the spring, I'd recommend using a canister stove till you get to Virginia. You'll want something that will heat water quickly.
After the weather warms-up a bit an alcohol stove is more than adequate.
Get rid of the filter all together and use either Aqua Mira or bleach.
If using bleach; 2 drops per quart and let stand for 30 minutes.
Forget the spade, carry and use a snow-stake. It weighs an ounce.
You'll need rain gear. Our Frogg Toggs worked but they're not very durable.
Definitely get hiking poles.
I notice that you're from Maryland. Where at?
JustPassinThru
GA2ME05
Columbia (half way between Baltamore and DC, and a bit to the left)
At what points do most peopla drop out and for what reason? (baring severe injury)
It is said that 50% leave at Neels Gap, some of which is b/c a lot of ppl only do the first 40 miles for Spring Break. Then another 50% by or at Damascus, then another 50% at Harpers ferry. This is what I have HEARD and observed through my own experience and reading trail journals. A LOT of ppl get bored and decide to do it in section hikes.
So...by harpers ferry 150% have dropped out?
RockStar
05-16-2007, 22:13
Neels gap 100-50%= 50
Damascus 50-50%=25
H.F. 25-50%=12.5
I never was very good at the math...
Appalachian Tater
05-17-2007, 12:47
Here's the closest thing to "facts" available:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm
aaroniguana
05-17-2007, 21:15
Wow, there are a lot of Marylanders here...
RockStar
05-17-2007, 22:35
I never was very good at the math...
I just said it kinda funny. :p
Here's the closest thing to "facts" available:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851143/k.C36D/2000Milers_Facts_and_Statistics.htm
Thanks tater! :D
Anyone got any experience with the MSR Titan titanium kettle?
Anyone got any experience with the MSR Titan titanium kettle?Love it. My stove, windscreen, Purell, measuring cup and lighter all fit inside.
Some folks think it is too small, but I've found it to be great for solo backpacking.
Appalachian Tater
06-06-2007, 19:30
Anyone got any experience with the MSR Titan titanium kettle?
Yes, it's a wonderful pot. Exactly the right size for one person. The lid fits tightly. The spout is great for draining pasta. The bottom is indented and fits perfectly on a cat or soda can stove. The overall proportions make it very stable on the stove and easy to get you hand into to clean.
My only complaint is that the handle can get hot if you are not careful but that would be true of any attached handle.
Appalachian Tater
06-06-2007, 19:31
As far as size, it easily holds a Lipton's or two packs of Ramen or enough water for a hot beverage and a freeze-dried meal.
With the disclaimer that I've only walked about 3/4 of the AT, over about three decades, some responses to a few of your questions...
How often do you throu-hikers build campfires? and is it worth packing a hatchet?
Easy one: no thru-hiker carries a hatchet. (Except maybe Earl Shaffer, in 1949.) None that I've met, in any case. Campfires are wonderful but are becoming a rarity. Newer shelters often don't have a fire pit. On my last section hike -- ten nights in the woods -- I only had one camp fire. Sad. This seems to be a long-term trend.
Has any of you tried "foraging" (gathering eddible plants and such to supplament or replace packed food? Is doing so leagl?I suppose it depends on whether the thing you're foraging for is endangered or not. I've certainly never foraged for meals. I've picked and eaten wild berries along the trail, even though some say you should leave them for the wildlife. Ramps (sorta like onions) grow wild in parts of Virginia.
What one trate (if any) would you say defines a successfull throu-hiker versus aan unsuccessfull one?Prolly one with a good sense of humor. Prolly why I'm on the wrong side of this question. ;)
I haven't actually thru-hiked, but I just got back a week ago from a 2 month, 1000 mile hike from Springer to Harpers Ferry. I think I can answer a few of your questions.
How often do you throu-hikers build campfires? and is it worth packing a hatchet?
-During my hike I had a lot of campfires. In fact the only times I didn't have campfires were when it was either raining/snowing, or when I was utterly exhausted from a big mile day(more towards the end of my trip). And no, it is not worth packing a hatchet. There is usually plenty of dead wood laying around and a lot of times there will be wood leftover at shelters and campsites. I have had some pretty big fires without having a hatchet. It would just be deadweight in your pack.
How many of you
A; carries maps ans compas, and
B; had a use for one or the other,
C; had eather map or compas and never used eather, or didn't have eather map or compas and needed one?
-I didn't use any maps, and on a trail like the AT do not think it is neccessary. It is more of a personal thing, some people just like to look at maps. I am not one of them. I did carry a compas, as it is always a good idea. Never really had to use it, but it is worth having just in case.
There are several "guiedbooks" avalable (throu-hikers companion, Wingfoot's, ATC's ect), which one(s) get the most use, or are the most usfull. If you had to choose only one, which one would it be?
- I saw mostly companions and Wingfoots. I used a Companion and never once wished I had Wingfoots book. I would say go with the Companion because it offer pretty much everything Wingfoots does but has cool little information and historical facts that Wingfoots does not.
What piece of gear did you start with and regret having or discard?
-A tent and a Frog togg rain suit. I would have used a tarp and bug net, and a lighter more breatheable rainsuit.
What pece of gear did you not have and regret not having or add durring the hike?
-The only thing I regretted not having was a warmer sleeping bag during the Smokies, and one night right before Erwin. I carried a 30 degree bag with me the whole way and got 2 snowstorms. One night in the Smokies it got down to 7 degrees and I was pretty cold and barely slept, but not in any danger. I would say bring some warm clothing if you are starting in March.
Has any of you tried "foraging" (gathering eddible plants and such to supplament or replace packed food? Is doing so leagl?
-I don't see why it wouldn't be legal unless you were on private land or there was a sign specifically saying to leave the plants in that area alone. But, no I haven't ever foraged for food.
At what points do most peopla drop out and for what reason? (baring severe injury)
- I heard a lot of people drop out at Neels Gap just 30 miles from Springer. Other than that I don't think there is a specific point where most people drop out. I have heard about people dropping out from all points along the trail. Reasons could be knee or ankle injuries, stress fractures, family problems, finding out backpacking isn't for you, getting bored, sick of putting on wet and cold clothes and having your shoes and socks completely soaked for 4 days straight, Etc. etc.
What one trate (if any) would you say defines a successfull throu-hiker versus aan unsuccessfull one?
- I would say it would be your mental outlook and attitude towards hiking. I noticed that some people were out there just to party. I like to call them event to event hikers. They go from party to party, and don't seem to be interested in having a outdoor experience. With that said, hike your own hike, but I just don't think that someone out there to get drunk at every available time would hold up against someone who is out there because they love the outdoors and love hiking through beautiful mountains.
Like most people say, at first it's a physical thing, but after a few weeks when you get into shape and get your trail legs, everything becomes mental. Will you be bored hiking through woods ALL day and not seeing a single view?(Not all of the AT is like this but some sections are.) Will you put on a good face even though it's 50 degrees out, completely cloudy, and you have to crawl out of your warm and dry sleeping bag to put on your cold and wet clothes, socks, and shoes? Or what about when it's hot and so humid you feel like you can't breathe and you still have 2000 vertical feet to climb over 3 or 4 miles?
Don't think I am a pessimist, but these are things that you probably will have to face on the Appalachian trail, and it's the people who can suck it up and push through it that can accomplish their goals.
wilconow
06-12-2007, 11:31
Wow, there are a lot of Marylanders here...
yeah im from nw balt co. originally, now live in dc.
Thanks Teripin and McQueen, those were informative ancers.
I'm looking into lightening my back pack if practicle. Currently I have a Gregory forester. I talked with several of the manufacturers at trail days, including Gregory and Osprey.
One of the questions I have when looking into packs is how much volume is needed for an AT throu...
It's hard to know the size of the pack you will need because everyone's gear is different. I used a 3100 cubic inch pack and had no problems carrying all my gear and 5 days worth of food. I would say somewhere around 4000 would probably be plenty of room.
Anyone out there have any experience with the Osprey Atmost 50?
OOps , make that the 65...
Well I just got my msr titan titanium kettle. Anyone out there with experience with osprey packs?
RockyBob
06-30-2007, 08:50
OOps , make that the 65...
I have the Atmos 65. This is the perfect pack for me. But when it comes to packs, different strokes for different folks. Everyone has thier own likes and dislikes. With the 65, I like being able to hang my hydration bladder on the outside of the pack, behind the mesh back panel. This frees up some room inside the pack. But that can be a problem, because you will have the tendancy to put in extra stuff that you don't need.
The hammock is the way to go. :welcome to the mafia. Your well on your way to becoming a "made man".
Thanks rocky, I have tried on the atmost 65 at the local rei with about 30 pounds in it, and think its one of the er, scratch that, tyhe most comphortable packs I have ever worn. my only consern is weatheror not it hase the volume to handle a through-hike, and as I am unfamilier with the ospreys performance in general, long term quality.
For the most part I have so far been very impressed.
Hey Kerby,
I just wanted to say hello to a fellow Columbian. I live in Oakland Mills.
I'll leave the advice-giving to the experience hikers. Sadly, for the time being I remain a cyber-hiker lurking on WB to get my fix.
Best of luck with your preparations and your thru!
Way cool Hiker5!
I went to OM HS.
RockyBob
07-02-2007, 06:59
Thanks rocky, I have tried on the atmost 65 at the local rei with about 30 pounds in it, and think its one of the er, scratch that, tyhe most comphortable packs I have ever worn. my only consern is weatheror not it hase the volume to handle a through-hike, and as I am unfamilier with the ospreys performance in general, long term quality.
For the most part I have so far been very impressed.
That pack will take you from GA to ME with no problem.
Just what I was hopin to hear, thanks!
Tennessee Viking
07-02-2007, 23:34
I only section and day hike. But for the southern sections, you really don't need a compass. The VA/NC/TN/GA sections are well blazed. So you really can't get lost. But for some of the northern sections, especially where it gets rocky and areas that do not have a lot of trees, I have heard that blazes can be rare. Some joke about seeing one for every mile. But unless you go off trail, you really dont need one.
For maps and guides, I would just get the guides, the especially the ATC ones. They are extremely detailed. Gives details about shelters, peaks, gaps, local towns with lodging, and provides a history of the trail & surround ing area. And mail it out or pass it on when your done with the section. Plus you have to fold the maps up and they can get torn easily. The guide is pocket sized. And its good reading when resting.
There are some sections were maps are vague on trail direction. I don't believe there is an actual ATC map for the Smokies, its National Geographic and Park maps.
I could be biased because one of my hiking club trail guides wrote the TN section guide. Look for the AT guide for TN/NC by Collins Chew. He is very detailed even down to the rock strata.
Papaw John
07-04-2007, 03:24
Hey Y'all!!!
Recent 'whiteblaze-dot-com' subscriber here. Recently concluded (after lengthy conversation with the Mrs/better-half) that I might fit into the class of '08.
Have section-hiked many times in southern AT. Prob'ly have done most of the Springer--Damascus sections several times. Moved to Annapolis MD and hiked HarpersFerry-PenMar several times.
Kinda reluctant to put my oar in the water on this forum---but I know a few things, eh?
Here's what I can contribute: There used to be a phrase--'the Virginia Blues'. It preceded and foreshadowed the end of someone's thru-hike. I read trail-journals-dot-com for years. Concluded that 'health maintainance' was the issue. That breaks down to two problems.
First--you need to have physically prepared yourself for the 2200miles and that includes learning how hard to push yourself daily and when to stop pushing and recuperate. Chronic injuries (mostly knees, feet or shin-splints) are the reason that many many of the journalers ended up back in their parents spare bedroom or having the Mrs/better-half drive to some backroad NorthCarolina trailcrossing to bring home the defeated hero.
So.....get used to pushing yourself BUT NOT TOO MUCH!!! Once upon a time (when dinosaurs roamed) I was an endurance athlete. Every 'thru' is an 'endurance athlete'!!! A thru-hike seems to me to require a triathlete's sensitivity to what your body is telling you. Sometimes, you have to push past pain. Sometimes you have to stop and take care of yourself. No one can tell you when to do one--when to do the other. It has to be done and you are the only one who can tell the difference. So get out and hike and learn to listen to your body. Get injured. Get shin-splints. Sprain your ankle or twist your knee. Learn what can be pushed thru and what requires a healing period. Take that lesson to the trail.
Second--nutrition and calories have an immense impact. Over the years, I've noticed that there was a subset of would-be thru-hikers that had no concern about their meals unless they were hungry. Once something filled their bellies, no more concern. Mostly they never made it to HarpersFerry.
To finish a triathlon, one trains for months. Maybe years. One of the things one learns is how to eat. You watch your weight. Watch your fats and proteins and fiber and learn to drink water and think of Potassium and Sodium. Stuff like that.
Thru-hikers who I read about getting to BaxterSP might not put the same daily effort into their daily nutrition plan but they had learned to do it. They have learned to FEED THE MUSCLES.
So. To answer your 'uber-question': No piece of equipment or technique is going to get you to Maine except your body. And you must know it and feed it and take care of it and demand it's utmost.
So spend more time thinking about the demands on your body (which to me means the weight of the equip't) and the nutrition your body needs (water first, then calories, then vitamins and fats and etc) and less time worrying about hatchets and maps and such.
Anyhow, that's how I'm approaching this coming spring. Hope it works for me. Hope that's some help to you.
Papaw John
Sage advice, Papaw John. Welcome to Whiteblaze.
Some joke about seeing one for every mile. But unless you go off trail, you really dont need one.
Plus you have to fold the maps up and they can get torn easily. The guide is pocket sized. And its good reading when resting.
I think of maps as part of my first aid kit. You hope you never 'need' it, but it can be a lifesaver if you do. Plus, I like to look at maps and check out where I've been. I like to try and figure out where exactly on the map I am at any given point.
And these maps don't tear. They are made on special paper that is water and tear proof. I've tried to tear one and can't. Those square trail guides that come with the maps are pretty much useless on the AT and weigh a lot. Taking just the Handbook or the Companion, and the maps are plenty. Unfortunately, you have to buy the books in order to get the maps, most are packaged that way.
I had a compass and never used it.
Words of wisdom there Pawpaw, I hadent asked any questions in that direction as I already figured that was the ancer, if you get me.
Wile on the subject of nutrition, what kinds of foods would you recomend? assuming resuplying on the trail rather than reling on drops?
and Lilred, thank you for your responce as well.
Papaw John
07-04-2007, 16:43
Hey Kirby!!
Question is what would I recommend regarding food bought @ trail towns instead of maildrops? Prob'ly I'm not the right guy to answer cause I'm a devoted dehydrator and am planning to use maildrops.
But....ignorance never keeps me from having an opinion!!!
The biggest single issue is calories-in vs calories-out. Was just reading a journal. Fella had a 60lb pack. Reported how whipped he was after 15m days. Took quite a few zeros. Visited family after 6wks on the trail, had lost 30lbs.
You see the equation? Work done has to be paid for with calories eaten so begin by lightening your pack. I used to carry 60 and 70lbs. Used to think a half-marathon was a fun thing to do, too. Now I'm old and have arthritis but have 30lbs on my back. It was easy to drop off the lbs.
Food that is most dense in calories is fats/oils. Oz for oz, has 9 times the calories of carbs. So I'm going to take PeanutButter. I'm going to add olive oil to recipes. I'm going to add lots of nuts to GORP.
FreezeDried food is almost completely fat-free. Liptons etc also very low fat. So if you're eating mostly that kinda stuff (as I do--I just add the things I dry), fatten it up. Add jerky or similar. Liquid margarine is good in a big potful of Ramen, along with whatever else you toss in.
My favorite 'supplement'---DairyQueen Milkshakes. Extra large. Double Chocolate. On a looooong bicycle trip, rode thru Texas. DQ had an ad campaign--sign would have the DQ logo (the red smiling lips) and the words "Texas Stop Sign". We stopped at every DQ in the state. It was great.
Good Luck
Papaw John
Thanks again Papaw, I'll be sure to incorperate your tips into my diet in next years hike.
I got a nalageen(sp?) 3qt collapsable water bottle, is that big enough?
err...make that water bag...
So...is a 3 qt bag sufficient?
7Sisters
07-28-2007, 06:28
Carrying a hatchet - heck no. Not worth it. I'm not a big fire person at all.
Gear I didn't need:
Udig it trowel - I learned to use my boot heal.
Cord for bear bagging.
fleece jacket - weight to warmth was not worth it. Was better off with a fleece base layer shirt.
swapped out therma rest for z Rest
brought too much first aid stuff
snake bite kit
Curious question,
My husband and I are planning a thru in 08 and are quitting our jobs in order to do this. Has anyone else done this? If so, what did you do about having insurance on the trail?
The Weasel
08-26-2007, 16:54
Yes, many do.
COBRA should help (assuming you mean medical) and there are short term policies which can be useful. Both have problems, though.
The Weasel
Appalachian Tater
08-26-2007, 23:17
There are several threads on this site regarding health insurance. Here's a Google search:
http://tinyurl.com/2mbn4o
Time To Fly 97
08-27-2007, 09:16
Curious question,
My husband and I are planning a thru in 08 and are quitting our jobs in order to do this. Has anyone else done this? If so, what did you do about having insurance on the trail?
Weasel's right about COBRA - but this is an expensive. If you can get another family member to add you to their insurance and just pay them back, this may be a better alternative.
Many people go without insurance, but this is obviously a risk and personal decision. Outside of starting a thru-hike with an already known medical condition, serious injuries requiring a hospital stay are very rare. More common are pulled muscles, occasional sprain, giardia, etc. which would cost you a couple hundred at a walk-in clinic - much less than insurance.
Happy hiking!
TTF
naturejunkie
08-29-2007, 11:46
So...is a 3 qt bag sufficient?
Yes, it is sufficient. Alot of people don't carry water bags at all and just rely on two nalgenes or two gatorade bottles. It really is a matter of personal preference. Also, I'd ditch the light sticks, forget the hatchet, and a stick and your boot heel work just as well as a trowel, so ditch that to.
small bottle of skin-so-soft bug repellent
In my experience, mosquitos bite through skin-so-soft like it's not even there! To even have a chance of keeping the bugs off, you need CHEMICALS!! If you don't like deet, then just don't bring any bug repellant because nothing else works.
Not a problem, I have already roplaced the skin so soft with Jungle Juice (98.11% DEET!)
I decided to upgrade my homebuilt pepsycan stove with a titanium jetboil alcohol stove.
It is not only half the weight and size, but burns hotter and lasts longer.
way cool.
SGT Rock
11-29-2007, 23:44
Titanium JetBoil alcohol stove? Never heard of it.
take-a-knee
11-30-2007, 00:58
In my experience, mosquitos bite through skin-so-soft like it's not even there! To even have a chance of keeping the bugs off, you need CHEMICALS!! If you don't like deet, then just don't bring any bug repellant because nothing else works.
Permethrin on your clothing works better than DEET, use the latter on your exposed skin, and never use/buy the 100% DEET products, that toothpaste tube ultrathon works better because the cream base lasts longer on your skin. You are correct the skin so soft is useless for mosquitos, I think they like the smell.
Titanium JetBoil alcohol stove? Never heard of it.
Ops, make that a
Vargo Outdoors Triad Titanium Alcohol Stove
my bad
1/4 moon
12-01-2007, 02:45
just thought id chime in...i saw a jetboil alcohol stove on my thru this year....haha someone had a v8 stove and used a vegetable can for a windscreen which apparently fits right into the jetboil "fins"
SGT Rock
12-01-2007, 14:29
The old Vargo Ti stoves were a POS, but I hear the new ones have fixed some of the issues. Let me know how that works out for you.
The old Vargo Ti stoves were a POS, but I hear the new ones have fixed some of the issues. Let me know how that works out for you.
I'm not sure what POS means, but so far its working well.
at least both times that i have used it.
Maps + Compass = Deadweight. You will never, ever, be in a "survival" situation on the trail unless you do something incredibly stupid. And it's best not to know specifics about what's coming up on the trail; I can't tell you how many times I stopped for a snack at a shelter and had to listen to some dude looking at the elevation profile and being like "oh man, there's a wicked climb coming up." If you don't know what's ahead of you, you can hold on to the possibility during really hard sections that the trail is about to settle into a 20-mile flat ridgewalk; just that possibility, that anticipation, however unfounded, helps drag you over the rough parts.
Maps + Compass = Deadweight. You will never, ever, be in a "survival" situation on the trail unless you do something incredibly stupid. And it's best not to know specifics about what's coming up on the trail; I can't tell you how many times I stopped for a snack at a shelter and had to listen to some dude looking at the elevation profile and being like "oh man, there's a wicked climb coming up." If you don't know what's ahead of you, you can hold on to the possibility during really hard sections that the trail is about to settle into a 20-mile flat ridgewalk; just that possibility, that anticipation, however unfounded, helps drag you over the rough parts.
Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.
What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?:-?
Kirby
Clurd and Kirby, Thanks for clearing that up.
Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.
What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?:-?
Kirby
By the way, love the name.
SGT Rock
12-03-2007, 19:34
Looks like twins.
Christopher Robin
12-03-2007, 19:37
Yes I agree w/map here in the North East you can easly loss the trail above tree line and I live here. Have some clothes you can layer, it is easyer to add or take off then work w/hevyer clothes. I have not offten used a compass but if you need to bushwack into a road or for other resons. Light weight rain jacket or anarak type W/pants serves both wind braker as well. Foreget the Searra cup it donot hold much water.
Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.
What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?:-?
Kirby
You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation? As far as I can tell, maps are only really useful is you plan to go off-trail, and in that case obviously they are essential; but are you really going to take your injured budy--shattered ankle and all--on a five mile bushwack through uneven, difficuly, often incredibly dense foilage to get to a road? No. The "nearest road" effectively always means the "nearest road on the trail," and that information is in the data book, which of course you should always carry. Anyway, if the injury is bad enough that he can't walk, hs isn't going to go anywhere at all. He is going to sit there while you walk to the nearest op-out point (as indicated by the mileage index in your book) and phone for help. Also, the whole issue is moot as long as you hike alone, which is the only way to hike. Remember, injury is ALWAYS your fault; you have total control over where you put your feet, and if you fall it is because you weren't paying attention. That may sound crass, but it's true, and its the only mindset to have if you are serious about not getting hurt on the trail. You can always be accountable for your own feet, but never for your friend's; hike alone, and you have nothing to worry about.
Don't get me wrong--maps can be great fun at times; it can just be cool to get a bird's eye view of what you are walking over. But in the end they are just this: entertainment, as far as the AT is concerned.
Uncle Silly
12-04-2007, 00:37
You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation?
The map would tell you that the road crossing is 4 miles away by trail, but only half a mile following the creek you just passed. Or something similar: the old logging road you're about to come up on, or the side trail, and where these might lead. By having the map, you have the information to know whether leaving the AT is a good option.
The data book doesn't provide anywhere near the kind of context that a map does. It can't tell you anything about where you are if you get lost trying to follow the trail in the fog. (Obviously, the map won't help either, until the fog lifts.)
A map is a serious piece of emergency equipment -- and like all emergency equipment, it's quite possible to get along without it. That doesn't mean it's smart to do so.
take-a-knee
12-04-2007, 00:42
The map would tell you that the road crossing is 4 miles away by trail, but only half a mile following the creek you just passed. Or something similar: the old logging road you're about to come up on, or the side trail, and where these might lead. By having the map, you have the information to know whether leaving the AT is a good option.
The data book doesn't provide anywhere near the kind of context that a map does. It can't tell you anything about where you are if you get lost trying to follow the trail in the fog. (Obviously, the map won't help either, until the fog lifts.)
A map is a serious piece of emergency equipment -- and like all emergency equipment, it's quite possible to get along without it. That doesn't mean it's smart to do so.
You don't understand Silly, the map is of no use to this guy 'cause he can't read it. Some people have spatial perception problems, they can't visualize in 2D, much less 3D.
warraghiyagey
12-04-2007, 00:47
You don't understand Silly, the map is of no use to this guy 'cause he can't read it. Some people have spatial perception problems, they can't visualize in 2D, much less 3D.
That seems unnecessary. He just has a different opinion. No harm.
You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation? As far as I can tell, maps are only really useful is you plan to go off-trail, and in that case obviously they are essential; but are you really going to take your injured budy--shattered ankle and all--on a five mile bushwack through uneven, difficuly, often incredibly dense foilage to get to a road? No. The "nearest road" effectively always means the "nearest road on the trail," and that information is in the data book, which of course you should always carry. Anyway, if the injury is bad enough that he can't walk, hs isn't going to go anywhere at all. He is going to sit there while you walk to the nearest op-out point (as indicated by the mileage index in your book) and phone for help. Also, the whole issue is moot as long as you hike alone, which is the only way to hike. Remember, injury is ALWAYS your fault; you have total control over where you put your feet, and if you fall it is because you weren't paying attention. That may sound crass, but it's true, and its the only mindset to have if you are serious about not getting hurt on the trail. You can always be accountable for your own feet, but never for your friend's; hike alone, and you have nothing to worry about.
Don't get me wrong--maps can be great fun at times; it can just be cool to get a bird's eye view of what you are walking over. But in the end they are just this: entertainment, as far as the AT is concerned.
IMHO, hiking alone may be fine for some or even most, but not all people prefer to do that especially if you've bee hiking alone for a while. As far as the idea that "injury is ALWAYS your fault", I beg to differ. Hikers have and always will be injuried by falling branches (widow makers), the hidden striking snake, odd lightning bolt out of nowhere, etc. What I'm trying to say is that occasionally (and it only takes once), hikers are injured or even killed even though they did everything right. To believe overwise only shows a lack of maturity, believing one is invincible or a lack of "real wold" experience.
Carrying a map and a small compass doesn't mean that you have to use it, but it can be awfully nice to have if you do need them. Sure, you can hike on to the next access point as indicated in the AT Companion Book (could be several miles) or you can bushwack the half-mile or mile to the nearest road for help using the map and compass. In an emergency situation, time can become your enemy.
"Injury is ALWAYS your fault" isn't a fact, Montego, it's an attitude. Think about it like this: you can either go out into the woods with all kinds of alarmist nonsense like maps, compasses, handheld GPS devices, satellite phones (yep, I saw'em last summer), etc. That way, WHEN you fall and break something you can call the chopper to pluck you out of the woods. Or you can bring the best protection of all: accountability and enforced self-reliance, the "watch where you step" precaution.
Of course, you are right about snakes, branches, etc. (in the first post, I was specifically talking about falls). But the attitude is still valuable; if you go in with the thought in mind that you have complete control over what happens to you, and that it will be your fault if anything goes wrong, it's more likely that you will conduct yourself with a sense of self-awareness and proactive thought than if you equip yourself with all kinds of emergency stuff.
To believe overwise only shows a lack of maturity, believing one is invincible or a lack of "real wold" experience.
Oh, were my 2,500+ miles of hiking this year not in the real world? Which year did you thru-hike in?
Oh, were my 2,500+ miles of hiking this year not in the real world? Which year did you thru-hike in?
I have never set foot on the AT (I will start my AT thru-hike in '08) though I have hiking/camping/winter camping experience (some extensive) in Germany, Austria, Grand Tetons (School Room Glacier), Wind River Range, Sierra Nevada Range, San Juan Range, Pikes Peak (Barr Trail), Grand Canyon (Angel Trail), and other trails, the names of which I've long forgotten the names of.
So yes, I believe that I have much more than 2,500 miles of hiking under my belt, though your 2,500+ miles of hikine is commendable and certainly nothing to laugh at - my congratulations.
I still belive that carrying a map and small compass, even if they are never used, is a prudent precaution. HYOH and peace.
hopefulhiker
12-04-2007, 03:02
On the water question, I would carry extra water bottles next year because of the water situation being potentially bad. Also I have seen water bottles leak and break, it is best to carry at least one backup.
No maps dumbass, wingfoot rules, self inflating thermarest is the best equiptment, foraging is time consuming and not substantial enough to get more than a taste, people quit all the way up to katahdin stream campground for every reason imaginable although that late in the game it's usually physical. this year alone several people dropped out just ahead of me less than a week from finishing. What makes a sucessfull hike is your ability to keep a positive attitude and a healthy body.
Dakota Dan
12-04-2007, 08:52
......... Like most people say, at first it's a physical thing, but after a few weeks when you get into shape and get your trail legs, everything becomes mental......
Just watch out for unsolicted PM's from hikers who want you to go hiking with in order for them to lose weight in order to do the "physical thing" you speak of. They could get mad, if you refuse to help, and complain to attroll and accuse you of "hitting on them" LOL :)
"Injury is ALWAYS your fault" isn't a fact, Montego, it's an attitude. Think about it like this: you can either go out into the woods with all kinds of alarmist nonsense like maps, compasses, handheld GPS devices, satellite phones (yep, I saw'em last summer), etc. That way, WHEN you fall and break something you can call the chopper to pluck you out of the woods. Or you can bring the best protection of all: accountability and enforced self-reliance, the "watch where you step" precaution.
Of course, you are right about snakes, branches, etc. (in the first post, I was specifically talking about falls). But the attitude is still valuable; if you go in with the thought in mind that you have complete control over what happens to you, and that it will be your fault if anything goes wrong, it's more likely that you will conduct yourself with a sense of self-awareness and proactive thought than if you equip yourself with all kinds of emergency stuff.
Clured, thank you. Thiis is likely some of the best advice I have yet hers. A positive attitude and holding yourself accountable is the only way to live, much less hike.
i see this as more "prepair to succeed" than "be ready to fail"..;as it were.
On the water question, I would carry extra water bottles next year because of the water situation being potentially bad. Also I have seen water bottles leak and break, it is best to carry at least one backup.
well, i have a 3 quart cammalpack, as well as a 3 quart collapsable and a one quart collapsable. I may get annother 1 quart.
My question was mostly geared twards water supply in camp, not nessisarily on trail.
Although beeing ready for a dry season is also worth keeping in mind.
I have never set foot on the AT (I will start my AT thru-hike in '08) though I have hiking/camping/winter camping experience (some extensive) in Germany, Austria, Grand Tetons (School Room Glacier), Wind River Range, Sierra Nevada Range, San Juan Range, Pikes Peak (Barr Trail), Grand Canyon (Angel Trail), and other trails, the names of which I've long forgotten the names of.
So yes, I believe that I have much more than 2,500 miles of hiking under my belt, though your 2,500+ miles of hikine is commendable and certainly nothing to laugh at - my congratulations.
I still belive that carrying a map and small compass, even if they are never used, is a prudent precaution. HYOH and peace.
Wow Montego! thats quite a resume. Maby we'll bump into eachother out there.
I usualy feel more comphortable with a good map and compas at hand as well, although, I haventy often hiuked on trails that are as well maintained and clearly marked as the AT.
Before I ever set foot on the AT I had been reading on WB the pros and cons to maps. After reading both sides of the coin, I tend to fall on the side that advocates having maps. It just seemed to make logical sense to me, to have as a resource in the woods, a map of the area. It's like this, I've driven to Michigan from the south almost every year for the last 27 years. I know several different routes by heart, and know the billboards along the way as well. As perfectly as I know the way, I still will not get in the car without making sure I have my road atlas. In 27 years, it has come in quite handy exactly two times, and boy am I glad I had them both times.
The trail is the same way. If I'm hiking 2175 miles, even if I never need them, it's a good idea to have it along.
No, it's a smart thing to have along.
Wow Montego! thats quite a resume. Maby we'll bump into eachother out there.
I usualy feel more comphortable with a good map and compas at hand as well, although, I haventy often hiuked on trails that are as well maintained and clearly marked as the AT.
I would feel most honored to meet and chat with you. Lookin' forward to it. :sun
Think about it like this: you can either go out into the woods with all kinds of alarmist nonsense like maps, compasses,
???????
First time I heard a map/compass being called "alarmist nonsense" :D
If you don't mind me asking, where were your 2500+ miles done?
I did the couch to fridge yo-yo myself this year. No compass or map..so I'm a bit of hypocrite. ;)
???????
First time I heard a map/compass being called "alarmist nonsense" :D
If you don't mind me asking, where were your 2500+ miles done?
I did the couch to fridge yo-yo myself this year. No compass or map..so I'm a bit of hypocrite. ;)
On the AT if I am not miss reading his (her?) posts.
???????
First time I heard a map/compass being called "alarmist nonsense" :D
If you don't mind me asking, where were your 2500+ miles done?
I did the couch to fridge yo-yo myself this year. No compass or map..so I'm a bit of hypocrite. ;)
AT + Alabama Pinhoti yo-yo = ~2,400, plus four or five overnighters. Not counting resupply roadwalks on the AT.
I would feel most honored to meet and chat with you. Lookin' forward to it. :sun
About when do you plan on headin out?
AT + Alabama Pinhoti yo-yo = ~2,400, plus four or five overnighters. Not counting resupply roadwalks on the AT.
Ok, so I was close.
Very cool.
Jack Tarlin
12-05-2007, 20:21
Without naming names, anyone who says with a straight face that the best thing about carrying maps is that "they can be fun at times" shouldn't be giving anyone else any advice.
This is a remarkably foolish thing to say.
warraghiyagey
12-05-2007, 20:23
Without naming names, anyone who says with a straight face that the best thing about carrying maps is that "they can be fun at times" shouldn't be giving anyone else any advice.
This is a remarkably foolish thing to say.
Ditto. . .
Lone Wolf
12-05-2007, 21:08
Without naming names, anyone who says with a straight face that the best thing about carrying maps is that "they can be fun at times" shouldn't be giving anyone else any advice.
This is a remarkably foolish thing to say.
i would agree
It would be a foolish thing to say about any trail other than the AT. The trail is ridiculously well-blazed, even excessively blazed. On Max Patch, there are wooden posts about every twenty feet, next to the extremely well-defined trail, for as far as you can see. Seriously, guys, we get it. This is that AT. Of course I am immensely appreciative of trail-maintenance, and this is just a minor quibble. But the point is that navigation is never, ever, an issue on the trail. Maps are great conversation fodder and snack-break literature; but they are not ESSENTIAL, and it is not inherently unsafe to hike without them. If they make you feel more secure, then more power to you--take'em and love'em. It should be noted, though, especially for hikers concerned with trimming weight in small places, that they are high on the list of expendables.
Seriously, I would challenge any past thru-hiker to give an example of an instance in which maps provided essential information that the data book could not furnish, and in which the hiker in question did not do anything of egregiously poor judgment.
Not trying to be irresponsible, just practical.
Seriously, I would challenge any past thru-hiker to give an example of an instance in which maps provided essential information that the data book could not furnish, and in which the hiker in question did not do anything of egregiously poor judgment.
Not trying to be irresponsible, just practical.
Well, I'm not a thru hiker but I do long sections every summer. Does that count? Anyhow, I had to get off the trail unexpectedly near Catawba and came to a road crossing. Handbook just mentioned that you crossed a road. My map showed me that it went to another road, that went to another road, that went to the hwy that took you to Catawba. I'm glad I had my map. Had a long walk, but someone eventually gave me a ride. I had to get off the trail, having a map made a difference of one hour compared to two days. I'm glad I had my maps.
take-a-knee
12-05-2007, 23:40
You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation? As far as I can tell, maps are only really useful is you plan to go off-trail, and in that case obviously they are essential; but are you really going to take your injured budy--shattered ankle and all--on a five mile bushwack through uneven, difficuly, often incredibly dense foilage to get to a road? No. The "nearest road" effectively always means the "nearest road on the trail," and that information is in the data book, which of course you should always carry. Anyway, if the injury is bad enough that he can't walk, hs isn't going to go anywhere at all. He is going to sit there while you walk to the nearest op-out point (as indicated by the mileage index in your book) and phone for help. Also, the whole issue is moot as long as you hike alone, which is the only way to hike. Remember, injury is ALWAYS your fault; you have total control over where you put your feet, and if you fall it is because you weren't paying attention. That may sound crass, but it's true, and its the only mindset to have if you are serious about not getting hurt on the trail. You can always be accountable for your own feet, but never for your friend's; hike alone, and you have nothing to worry about.
Don't get me wrong--maps can be great fun at times; it can just be cool to get a bird's eye view of what you are walking over. But in the end they are just this: entertainment, as far as the AT is concerned.
If you actually meant that you should change your name to Clueless.
AT + Alabama Pinhoti yo-yo = ~2,400, plus four or five overnighters. Not counting resupply roadwalks on the AT.
Did you use maps for the Pinhoti?
Just out of curiosity, can the people who advocate not brining a map/compass are they able to use one? Add/subtract declination? Read topo lines? Plot a bearing? Etc?
I am not trying to start an arguement (or aiming this at anyone in particular).. I am just wondering if there is a correlation between knowledge of Nav 101 and taking map/compass?
Speaking of navigation (I realize this is not AT related, but found it interesting), this article was interesing:
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/dec/06/a-chilling-tale-from-quandary/
"Hettinger had decided to climb Quandary alone. He left a note for his roommate Andrew Rohr, saying he was driving up to camp at the trailhead to get an early start. He had never seen Quandary and brought no compass or map. He did carry a GPS receiver."
....
"His GPS receiver, his only navigational aid, failed in the cold weather"
If you read the article, the guy was a bit unprepared to say the least (doing 14er in winter no less!). Obviously a lot more hairy than the AT...
But..well, I dunno. Call me old fashion. A simple map, esp. for those like me are visually oriented, can be useful at times to say the least.
YMMV.
I can do "old fashioned" sailing navigation, and never found anything much different with land nav, actually much easier since there are less variables. I prefer GPS though, the dumb-dumb way to do things, but do carry maps most of the time.
Did you use maps for the Pinhoti?
Nope, and I absolutely should have. This is a good example of the difference between the AT and other trails. I was used to the hyper-blazing on the AT, and assumed that the pinhoti would be similar. But the Pinhoti is inconsistently blazed; in some places, especially around Cheaha, the trail is very well marked and maintained, printed metal plaques for blazes and all. But after you leave the state park the trail becomes skimpy and hard to follow in places, and I definately would have liked a map, especially around Dugger Mountain, where the blazing totally drops off for two or three hours. I came to a junction of two or three trails, and none of the trails out had any blazing, so I just guessed and took the one that seemed to look like it led into the one I came in on, and went for at least five miles without a blaze. Luckily I guessed right, but a map would have been nice.
The point, though, is that this is a situation that never happens on the AT.
The point, though, is that this is a situation that never happens on the AT.
Something similar happened to me in 1998 because of a storm that blew through NJ earlier that summer (IIRC) and on the VT/NH border because of the MASSIVE ice storms that caused blowdowns that winter. Then there was the time in Masschusetts. Massive rains caused the trail to be in water wall over my head. It was a good sized swamp ahead and the AT was under it!
A map saved me endless amounts of time bushwhacking (though I still had to bushwhack) in the first two cases and allowed me to avoid the flooding and walk a set of roads that hooked up to the AT again.
In the first two cases, I am sure I could have stumbled along and found the trail again. In the second case, I would have wandered aimlessly until I hooked back up to the trail again and/or go swimming. (I am a wimp though; macho hikers may have preffered the eco-challenge like swimming in over-their-head-water. ;) )
Never say never. :)
But, that's just me. As I said, I find maps useful.
I can do "old fashioned" sailing navigation, and never found anything much different with land nav, actually much easier since there are less variables. I prefer GPS though, the dumb-dumb way to do things, but do carry maps most of the time.
I have never sailed (well, I was on a sail boat once..) but ocean navigation strikes me similar to desert navigation (Wasn't it TE Lawrence (of Arabia) who said "The desert is an ocean in which no oar is dipped" ?).
Not many features, vast and wide open spaces.
When I go above canyon in Utah I actually use a GPS for that reason. I also take a GPS in winter for hut trips (white out conditions would suck in the wide open areas!)
Other than that? I pretend I know how to use a map and compass. ;)
So a GPS is not dumb-dumb at all. Just another tool. A tool that has limitations and is not a replacement for others.
Jack Tarlin
12-06-2007, 20:34
Well, he said it in the movie anyway, Mags, i.e. Robert Bolt the screenwriter said it. Same guy also wrote A Man for All Seasons, Dr. Zhivago, and The Mission.
Not too shabby.
I have never sailed (well, I was on a sail boat once..) but ocean navigation strikes me similar to desert navigation (Wasn't it TE Lawrence (of Arabia) who said "The desert is an ocean in which no oar is dipped" ?).
Not many features, vast and wide open spaces.
When I go above canyon in Utah I actually use a GPS for that reason. I also take a GPS in winter for hut trips (white out conditions would suck in the wide open areas!)
Other than that? I pretend I know how to use a map and compass. ;)
So a GPS is not dumb-dumb at all. Just another tool. A tool that has limitations and is not a replacement for others.
Sort of like desert nav, but you also have to worry about tides, current, leeway, collision nav, which course can actually be steered, etc. There are a lot more calculations at sea to get from point A to B if you do it properly. The quicker course is usually the old fashioned nav course, but GPS is simpler.
Well, he said it in the movie anyway, Mags, i.e. Robert Bolt the screenwriter said it. Same guy also wrote A Man for All Seasons, Dr. Zhivago, and The Mission.
Good enough for gov't work then? :)
Finally:
Sort of like desert nav, but you also have to worry about tides, current, leeway, collision nav, which course can actually be steered, etc. There are a lot more calculations at sea to get from point A to B if you do it properly. The quicker course is usually the old fashioned nav course, but GPS is simpler.
Well, good thing I don't sail..I'd be lost from the moment I left the harbor. Of course, I wouldn't know how to get the sails up and lots of other things. I'd probably kill myself. ;)
The one time I went sailing (meaning I was on the boat!), I was with the father of a woman I was dating at the time back in Newport, RI.
He's a former priest. The name of his boat? Vatican III ! (I can see why he's a former priest..)
On a quick change of topic (and not to interfear with what is turning into a very interesting discussion) I am looking into an underquilt for my Henasy expidition. Namely eather of the Nest or No Sniveler from jacks are better, or blackbishops synthetic.
Any thoughts or opinions? Experiencees? Ect...
jtbradyl
12-10-2007, 00:34
This is all non-sense
This is all non-sense
What'f non-sence about wonting an underquilt?
SGT Rock
12-10-2007, 17:48
JRB are having a $30 off sell on the No-Sniveler. I love mine.
JRB are having a $30 off sell on the No-Sniveler. I love mine.
Cool, I'll look into that. Would you recomend it over the Nest?