Lyme Disease questions

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Can anyone tell me what the sysptoms of long-term Lyme disease are? I've looked this up and am getting conflicting info. I've been having some health problems and this is one of the nicer things the doc thinks may be the cause.

[ShakeyLeggs]

Here ya go;

http://origin.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_humandisease_symptoms.htm

Untreated, the infection may spread to other parts of the body within a few days to weeks, producing an array of discrete symptoms. These include loss of muscle tone on one or both sides of the face (called facial or “Bell’s palsy), severe headaches and neck stiffness due to meningitis, shooting pains that may interfere with sleep, heart palpitations and dizziness due to changes in heartbeat, and pain that moves from joint to joint. Many of these symptoms will resolve, even without treatment.
After several months, approximately 60% of patients with untreated infection will begin to have intermittent bouts of arthritis, with severe joint pain and swelling. Large joints are most often effected, particularly the knees. In addition, up to 5% of untreated patients may develop chronic neurological complaints months to years after infection. These include shooting pains, numbness or tingling in the hands or feet, and problems with concentration and short term memory.

[Gray Blazer]

...a stiff neck that can last for several weeks. Within 2 days to 2 years polyarthritis without joint swelling develops.This develops into chronic arthritis within weeks or months after the skin lesion. Neurological symptoms on neuritis of cranial and somatic nerves appear. These may last months. The cardiac abnormalties including myopericarditis and cardiomegaly develop within weeks of the initial skin lesion.

[orangebug]

Chronic Lyme disease can mimic many illnesses, much as syphillis (another spirochete) is famous for mimicry. A good physician will create a differential diagnosis, while a good managed care doc will practice "evidence based medicine" and create a single diagnosis and never vary from cook book treatment planning.

It sounds like you have a good doc. Listen to the differential diagnosis and the work to narrow things down and to treat based on clinical judgement.

[oldfivetango]

A friend of mine was hospitalized for a lyme tick bite 2 years ago.
He was so feverish that he "lost" three days while in the hospital
and still has problems requiring medical attention although I do not
know the specifics of his current condition.One thing I have noticed
since I have started wearing high top snake boots while in the woods
is that I no longer get the tiny "seed" ticks.I suspect that gaiters treated
with permethrin would give considerable protection as well.But you have
to check yourself regularly.Tweezer is still the recommended way to remove
the offender.Don't get fancy and put something on the tick or he just might
regurgitate his toxins into your bloodstream.Just my 2 cents.
Oldfivetango

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Thanks for the responses. They took eight vials of blood last Thursday and I'm scheduled for a CAT scan of the abdomen and chest on Tuesday. If this is Lyme disease, my sympathies to anyone who has had it. The only person I've heard mention long-term Lyme was Mowgli - his wife had it, I think.

I considered just PMing him, but this a problem any of us could potentially experience so I figured a thread with clear title that contained the info would be a good idea.

[Frosty]

Thanks for the responses. They took eight vials of blood last Thursday and I'm scheduled for a CAT scan of the abdomen and chest on Tuesday. If this is Lyme disease, my sympathies to anyone who has had it. This may have nothing to do with anything, but a year ago last August I got sick while hiking the Northville Placid Trail in the Adirondacks. Food made me nauseous and I suffered severe night sweats. Stayed off the trail two days, found a clinic, and got no help there. Came home and my doctor looked at everything, including Lyme, Rocky Mtn disease and all its cousins. COuldn't find anything while I remained drained of energy and ambition, tired all the time, and occasionally having night sweats. He even called doctors and hospitals int eh ADK region asking about local problems.

Then one day in October, I realized I felt fine. I don't know when it happened, and my doctor still doesn't know what it was, though he says it was likely what he called a non-mono mono, something that mimics mononucleosis.

Hang in there, keeping giving you doctor bodily fluids to test, and maybe your body will decide enough is enough as mine eventually did.

The good news is that I lost about 20 pounds in those two months. The bad news is that I gained 30+ back in the last two years.

[superman]

I heard that the symptoms for Lyme Disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and one or two more are the same. I understand that the treatment for all of them is the same agressive antibiotic program. The treatment is started before the test results come back because the results only confirm which it is and timely treatment is the issue. This falls under hearsay.

[Streamweaver]

Chronic Lyme disease can mimic many illnesses, much as syphillis (another spirochete) is famous for mimicry. A good physician will create a differential diagnosis, while a good managed care doc will practice "evidence based medicine" and create a single diagnosis and never vary from cook book treatment planning.

It sounds like you have a good doc. Listen to the differential diagnosis and the work to narrow things down and to treat based on clinical judgement.


Yeah they really pushed the syphillis tests when I contracted Lyme! I couldnt seem to get through to them that Id been tested 3 times and I really didnt think thats what it was! LOL:D

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Can anyone tell me what the sysptoms of long-term Lyme disease are? I've looked this up and am getting conflicting info. I've been having some health problems and this is one of the nicer things the doc thinks may be the cause.

One thing for sure--- Heart Blockage arrhythmia can be a result. I had a pacemaker implanted for this last month, and the Doctors all asked if I had Lyme and ran a Lyme panel.

[Gray Blazer]

Good Luck with the tests tomorrow. I'll be thinking about you and praying for you. JJ

[Nightwalker]

I thought I had Lyme disease last year, after me paranoid wife drilled it into my head on my return from Maine. It turned out to be just a terrible, but dry, sinus infection. I worried myself sick over something that two days of mongo antibiotics fixed.

Moral o' de story? Don't worry about it. Wait for the tests to come back, and treat accordingly.

:)

[Appalachian Tater]

Moral o' de story? Don't worry about it. Wait for the tests to come back, and treat accordingly.

:)

The test for Lyme disease is unreliable.

[mark schofield]

For me the early symptoms were like getting the flu. aches, pains, tired, ect. then I got a small round rash on my leg. my good luck. I went to a dermatologist and he said Lime disease. did antibiotics for a month. that was ten years ago. I did get the vaccine for it although I know it's not full proof. it seems to manifest itsself differently in different people. good luck

[rafe]

Jordan Smith, a state park ranger in California, describes Lyme symptoms in detail in his book, Sierra Noir (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-1004425-1768908?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Sierra+Noir&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go). In his case, he found and removed the tick, presented it to his doctor, but the lame doctor simply could not believe that Lyme was present, and refused to test for it. Over the following months and years the symptoms presented, in spades.

It's not clear from the book whether Smith ever fully recovered, but the symptoms he describes (in later stages) are primarily emotional and neurological -- amnesia, mood swings, loss of motor control. Smith describes long-term self-administration of intravenous drugs to battle the advanced effects of the disease.

[Old Grouse]

It apparently continues to be a problem getting physicians outside the northeast to consider Lyme or other tick-borne diseases when trying to diagnose one's symptoms. And it isn't just those who spend lots of time outdoors who are at risk. Around here Lyme is so common that they usually start you on antibiotics while waiting for the test results.

[Fiddleback]

http://www.aldf.com/images/2004LymeDiseaseCaseMap.jpg

This map showing 2004 reported cases of Lyme disease might explain some of the delay in diagnosis outside the NE. http://www.aldf.com/usmap.shtml contains other info about the spread and incidence including a state by state table. FYI, the reported incidence of LD doubled, 1991-2002.

FB

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Well, I'm back from the CT -- had to drink a bunch of bottles of vanilla chalk and get an IV with dye that burned so bad I was sure fire was going to shoot out of my ears. My poor arms have more spots than the $10,000 blue tick hound from Erwin :D

Guess I'll get the results Friday around noon when I see the doc again.

[rafe]

Well, I'm back from the CT -- had to drink a bunch of bottles of vanilla chalk and get an IV with dye that burned so bad I was sure fire was going to shoot out of my ears. My poor arms have more spots than the $10,000 blue tick hound from Erwin :D

Guess I'll get the results Friday around noon when I see the doc again.

I've had two CTs in the last month. Not quite the same ill effects as you've had, though. Only one of 'em involved the chalk and dye.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Doc called with the results of the CT - they couldn't find anything wrong with my innards.
::: dino doing happy dance as this pretty much rules out the advanced cancer possiblities :::

[Old Grouse]

I'm glad for you. Just curious - did the CT show a lot of tarsal digits in your stomach?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

::: giggling dino ::: Hundreds.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

CT of Dino's stomach (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/CTstomach.jpg)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Well, they called me today to pull more blood to test for Lyme again. The doc says if none of the test they have done so far show anything, they are going to start looking at multiple sclerosis.

[MOWGLI]

FD:

Sorry to hear you're having health problems. M wife is dictating her long term lyme symptoms;

body aches & pains
foggy thought process
poor memory
poor digestive abilities
disrupted sleep
joint discomfort

The most bizarre thing about her Lyme is that it seems to have some association with heavy metal toxicity. She has met a number of folks who are suffering from long term Lyme, and also are being treated for heavy metals with chelation therapy.

I suggest you have your metal levels checked. Heavy metal toxicity can be characterized by an array of neurological symptoms.

Good luck FD! I hope you're feeling better soon!

[MOWGLI]

PS: Just saw that they are testing you for MS. My wife was tested for that and ALS. Turned out to be heavy metals. GET CHECKED!!!

[Appalachian Tater]

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html

[refreeman]

Appalachian Tater

1. The American Medical Association (AMA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu67ew0RG15cA3Y5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=11cm07n7c/EXP=1178998110/**http%3a//www.ama-assn.org/) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8X3w0RG30YAKmJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=117hfmulq/EXP=1178998135/**http%3a//www.fda.gov/) are NEVER WRONG!

2. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8X3w0RG30YAKmJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=117hfmulq/EXP=1178998135/**http%3a//www.fda.gov/) has NEVER approved a drug that tuned out to be unsafe and needed to be pulled from the shelves because it was killing the people that were taking it to get better.

3. The lobbyists of the of the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry have no influence in Washington, DC. The lobbyists of the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry can not exert influence via campaign contributions and job promises post public service.

4. Science has been perfected and is now always right, completely and accurately explaining all natural phenomenon in exact detail. (Especially the Heisenberg Uncertainly Principle.)

5. It has been at lest 2 to 3 days since an AMA certified surgeon amputated the wrong leg or eye from a trusting patient.

6. Common men and women are to stupid to understand any medical information and should be completely excluded from the diagnosis and prognosis of their own illness.

7. Insurance companies will gladly spend all the money necessary to properly treat an illness and never risk a patient's full and complete recovery by insisting on an inferior less expensive treatment.

8. All doctors should be considered living saints (you should bow your head when in their presence). They all went to medical school out of the pure goodness of their hearts and never considered for one second that they might become rich. Moreover, NEVER in the entire history of modern medicine has a doctor misdiagnosed a patient to make more money or prescribed unnecessary drugs and or the incorrect drugs.

9. Within seconds of looking at you a Doctor (saint) know exactly what is wrong and can easily put right any milady. Doctors NEVER guess because they always know. Furthermore, the medical system is PERFECT and should never be questioned because the questioner would be then a heretic.

10.
Doctors never try to shorten the length of contact time spent patients so the doctors can see more patients and make more money. Medical practices NEVER use nurses or physicians assistants instead of Doctors, so patient contact time costs much less at the risk of not providing proper care to the trusting patient. Medical practices always charge less when a patient is seen by a nurse or physicians assistant instead of a doctor.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Appalachian Tater

1. The American Medical Association (AMA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu67ew0RG15cA3Y5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=11cm07n7c/EXP=1178998110/**http%3a//www.ama-assn.org/) and Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8X3w0RG30YAKmJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=117hfmulq/EXP=1178998135/**http%3a//www.fda.gov/) are NEVER WRONG!

2. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8X3w0RG30YAKmJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmdvc2l hBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANNQVAwM TFfMTA3/SIG=117hfmulq/EXP=1178998135/**http%3a//www.fda.gov/) has NEVER approved a drug that tuned out to be unsafe and needed to be pulled from the shelves because it was killing the people that were taking it to get better.

3. The lobbyists of the of the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry have no influence in Washington, DC. The lobbyists of the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry can not exert influence via campaign contributions and job promises post public service.

4. Science has been perfected and is now always right, completely and accurately explaining all natural phenomenon in exact detail. (Especially the Heisenberg Uncertainly Principle.)

5. It has been at lest 2 to 3 days since an AMA certified surgeon amputated the wrong leg or eye from a trusting patient.

6. Common men and women are to stupid to understand any medical information and should be completely excluded from the diagnosis and prognosis of their own illness.

7. Insurance companies will gladly spend all the money necessary to properly treat an illness and never risk a patient's full and complete recovery by insisting on an inferior less expensive treatment.

8. All doctors should be considered living saints (you should bow your head when in their presence). They all went to medical school out of the pure goodness of their hearts and never considered for one second that they might become rich. Moreover, NEVER in the entire history of modern medicine has a doctor misdiagnosed a patient to make more money or prescribed unnecessary drugs and or the incorrect drugs.

9. Within seconds of looking at you a Doctor (saint) know exactly what is wrong and can easily put right any milady. Doctors NEVER guess because they always know. Furthermore, the medical system is PERFECT and should never be questioned because the questioner would be then a heretic.

10.
Doctors never try to shorten the length of contact time spent patients so the doctors can see more patients and make more money. Medical practices NEVER use nurses or physicians assistants instead of Doctors, so patient contact time costs much less at the risk of not providing proper care to the trusting patient. Medical practices always charge less when a patient is seen by a nurse or physicians assistant instead of a doctor.



I'd only like to mention in passing that not all physicians deserve being tarred with the same brush. I mention it in the memory of the radiation oncologist who treated me 27 years ago for a very advanced cancer who was at the time, dying of cancer himself. As a patient I never knew of his illness I was to self absorbed to notice. RIP Dr. John

[ric2hunt]

I dealt with Lyme's two years ago. Had the bullseye target on my arm and felt generally like crap. Doc ordered a very simple blood test to comfirm,took the medicine and all was well within a couple of weeks.

Made the week on the trail a little tough and got more sun than I should have but all ended well

[Nightwalker]

The test for Lyme disease is unreliable.

<< patiently waitin' for your replacement...

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Well, still don't know the results of the Lyme test, but liver disease, lymphoma, ALS (Lou Gehrig disease), auto-immune diseases, mono and spetic infections have beeen ruled out. Epstein-Barr virus is what the doc thinks this may be.

[Nightwalker]

Well, still don't know the results of the Lyme test, but liver disease, lymphoma, ALS (Lou Gehrig disease), auto-immune diseases, mono and spetic infections have beeen ruled out. Epstein-Barr virus is what the doc thinks this may be.

Have 'em check for wacked-inna-head dino-itis. Just a guess...

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

:::: Dino feasting on nocturnal pedestrian tarsal digits :::

[Blue Wolf]

There is only one good test to be sure weather or not you have lymes disease it's called a western block or western black I think? they mis diagnosed a good friend of mine with MS she almost died before a real doctor performed this test & it saved her life.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

My doc said she will be ordering a Western Blot if the Lyme antibody test shows any sensitivity at all.

[MOWGLI]

Tater, if you know of an effective treatment for heavy metals (other than chelation), I'm all ears.

PS: Chelation was recommended by my wife's MD.

[Blue Wolf]

Trust me do the Western Blot anyways they don't like to do it cause it's expensive.

[Appalachian Tater]

Tater, if you know of an effective treatment for heavy metals (other than chelation), I'm all ears.

PS: Chelation was recommended by my wife's MD.

Disclaimer: I am not a physician and this is not within my area of expertise.

Chelation therapy may be a valid treatment for certain levels of certain metals but it is more frequently inappropriately prescribed. If your wife's physician recommends chelation on an ongoing basis or without valid lab values demonstrating the need for it, you should get a second opinion. What is the physician's area of practice? Board certification? Hospital affiliations? Medical school?

"Heavy metal poisoning" is too general a term to be meaningful. Which heavy metals? Why does she have unusual blood levels of more than one? Unless she is exposed to arsenic or mercury, etc., at work, you would probably have the same issues.

If she has high enough levels of lead, for instance, that might required chelation therapy, but it would be emergent treatment, not something that would continue over a long period of time. It's just one of those things that sends up caution flags of possible quackery.

Here is a summary of the issues that is fairly accurate even though the website would not be my first choice as a reference: http://your-doctor.com/patient_info/alternative_remedies/various_therapy/fraud_topics/chelation.html

The problem is that chelation therapy is a legitimate treatment under certain rare circumstances but it is more frequently used unscientifically.

Chelation therapy is NOT without risk and can cause death.

Interestingly enough considering the thread, Lyme disease is another area of medicine rife with fraud:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/lyme.html

There was even a lab in California that did (expensive) tests for some non-existent Lyme indicator to support fraudulent treatment.

[mudhead]

Trust me do the Western Blot anyways they don't like to do it cause it's expensive.

How expensive?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

My doc ordered a CT of chest, abdomen and pelvis with barium and IV dye - I don't think the expense is what is causing her to wait.



She said that Lyme could take up to 30 days to product enough antibodies to be detectible via serological tests (blood). We have just crossed the 30-day mark on my symptoms. The Lyme antibody test will also detect antibodies to certain other diseases. The Western Blot is more accurate in determining which of those diseases has caused the positive Lyme antibody test. However, the antibodies have to be there in a concentration high enough to produce a reaction on the Lyme antibody test to be detected in the Western Blot. I hope this makes sense.

[orangebug]

That makes lots of sense. Expense does play a factor, in that the doc is not interested in buying tests that are not likely to aid in resolving the diagnosis. The tests previously mentioned would help cast a wide net at a very broad group of potential disasters.

My question is why aren't you being treated empirically with doxycycline while awaiting these tests. This is exceptionally cheap and safe, unless you happen to be pregnant.

BTW, the chelation issue rises from time to time. I have had patients terrified they were mercury poisoned due to elevated mercury levels in stool, not in blood, yet normal given presence of amalgan dental fillings. There are very few conditions requiring chelation therapy, unless you happen to have a chelation therapy clinic.

[take-a-knee]

I read an article on a lyme research project some years ago. People were exposed to ticks that were carriers. The tick was removed within 24hr and a SINGLE 100mg dose of doxycycline was taken. None of the subjects ever turned positive for Lyme. I'm not a fan of prophylactic antibiotics but this seems like a no-brainer.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

My second Lyme disease blood test is negative. My doc also did some research on Lyme and other blood tests results. My white cell count and leukocyte count has my doc convinced that this is not Lyme. She thinks it is Epstien-Barr virus.

[ShakeyLeggs]

Here is some info on Epstein-Barr virus (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/ebv.htm)

[RockStar]

I got Mono from finishing a JUST opened and sipped beer of a friends once. Young and stupid of me. Never have done that again!

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

When infection with EBV occurs during adolescence or young adulthood, it causes infectious mononucleosis 35% to 50% of the time......When "mono spot" or heterophile test results are negative, additional laboratory testing may be needed to differentiate EBV infections from a mononucleosis-like illness induced by cytomegalovirus, adenovirus, or Toxoplasma gondii. Direct detection of EBV in blood or lymphoid tissues is a research tool and is not available for routine diagnosis. Instead, serologic testing is the method of choice for diagnosing primary infection.I had a bad case of mono when I was about 14 -- out of school for about 2 months and could barely get off the sofa. The doc thinks that may have been the initial exposure to Epstien-Barr and this may be a relapse. My mono spot is negative at this time so this isn't mono.

My doc is doing the testing mentioned above now.

[sixhusbands]

This years crop of Black Flies will stop a freight train. I live in upstate New York and so far the Black Flies are making most outdoor activities a struggle to maintain your sanity. I was in the Adirondacks last weekend and I spent most of the time swatting and sitting in my tent. If you are close.. slow down.. if you are coming through beware!

[jet airliner]

My wife was diagnosed with Lyme disease 6 years ago. She spent two years before that being bounced from specialist to specialist trying to figure what was going on. She doesn't ever remember finding a tick on her or having the bullseye rash. Her symptoms began when she was pregnant with our son and she ignored many of them, attributing them to her pregnancy and later delivery. As time went on she would experience increasingly severe bouts of fatigue, dizziness, difficulty concentrating, forgetfulness, heart palpatations, severe pain in her temples and the joints of her neck, shoulders and hips. She would often find herself falling down stairs. It really scared her once when she fell down the stairs while holding our infant son. During the 2 years before she was diagnosed, she had been to her primary doctor nurmerous times, and refered to immunologists, rheumatologists, psychologists. She had gone to the emergency room more times than I can count because the pain in her hips was so bad she couldn't stand it. The doctors explored all kinds of illnesses that could be causing her symptoms; mono, MS, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, temporal arteritis, various GYN issues, post-partum depression, and Lyme disease. She had 3 Lyme tests with the ELISA, all of which showed negative.

Needless to say, she began to think she was crazy, and the doctors began steering her in that direction when they couldn't figure out what was going on. If it wasn't for a friend who had gone through exactly the same thing, I don't think my wife would have ever been treated. She went to her primary doctor to ask for the Western Blot test for Lyme. The doctor didn't want to order it and told her he sincerely doubted she had Lyme disease. My wife actully had to demand it from him. He later called her to let her know her test came back positive. He was so surprised and shock at the result, and he repeatedly expressed this over the phone.

My wife was actually relieved that she had Lyme disease. She had spent so much time thinking it was all in her head. She now sees an infectious disease specialist. She has been on oral antibiotics and two rounds of IV antibiotics. She still has bad days, but there are a few good days in there. She still can't work because of her symptoms. She is trying to come to grips with the fact that her symptoms may never disappear.

Dino, I can feel for you and what you are going through and I wish you the best.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Thank you for taking the time to write, JetLiner. The 3 negative Lyme tests really got my attention. Having had mono (which is said to be a lot like Epstein-Barr), I know this doesn't feel the same -- less fatigue and more fuzzy-headedness and aching. I may demand a western blot and ask to be put on the antibotics. While I'm no fan of using antibiotics unnecessarily, I feel the long-term permanent damage Lyme can do to the heart and joints makes it a viable option in this case.

[Jaybird]

Can anyone tell me what the sysptoms of long-term Lyme disease are? I've looked this up and am getting conflicting info. I've been having some health problems and this is one of the nicer things the doc thinks may be the cause.



Yo FD:


Doctors are only GUESSING!
most times they dont have conclusive evidence about LYME DISEASE!
Remember? TN's own governor, PHIL BREDESON, supposedly was suffering from "flu like symptoms, unexplained weight loss, fatigue," etc....& they still DONT have a conclusive answer...

wish i had better news...i had 5 ticks on me in my recent section hike in VA.
darn...all of a sudden...i'm feeling a bit sluggish! hehehehe:D