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t-wing
05-09-2007, 18:11
How are the white blazes going southbound? especially up north, Would a map be nice or can it be done without???

Tumblerisk
05-09-2007, 20:00
I would definitely take the maps if you're heading south. In order to encourage hikers to travel northbound (which is historically the safer direction for thru-hikers) the ATC only maintains around a 3:1 ratio of nobo blazes to sobo blazes. The debate on this policy has been the source of some heated debates among the leadership of the ATC in recent years, but it looks like we're stuck with it for the forseeable future. My advice would be to head north.

spittinpigeon
05-09-2007, 20:11
I would definitely take the maps if you're heading south. In order to encourage hikers to travel northbound (which is historically the safer direction for thru-hikers) the ATC only maintains around a 3:1 ratio of nobo blazes to sobo blazes. The debate on this policy has been the source of some heated debates among the leadership of the ATC in recent years, but it looks like we're stuck with it for the forseeable future. My advice would be to head north.

Yes, definitely abandon your plans to head south, it's treacherously dangerous, or... whenever you haven't seen a blaze for a while, simply look behind you.

Penne
05-09-2007, 22:05
I don't understand why there is such an aversion to Southbound. I've heard about the black flies, Katahdin tough to start with, and the Whites are a challenge, but that's really the only negatives I've heard. I'm starting my SOBO on June 2 so maybe I'll find out why people don't SOBO, but I hope not.

hammock engineer
05-09-2007, 23:34
I am headed SOBO this June sometime. Don't worry about it. I would take a map and compass though. I think it is very bad advice to tell someone to do otherwise.

I did a section of the LT last fall SOBO. I could see more blazes if I looked North than South at times. A couple mountains I swear only had 5 blazes up and down them. I haven't been out there, but you should be able to reconize the trail most of the time.

See you out there. When are you starting?

warraghiyagey
05-10-2007, 01:19
I don't understand why there is such an aversion to Southbound. I've heard about the black flies, Katahdin tough to start with, and the Whites are a challenge, but that's really the only negatives I've heard. I'm starting my SOBO on June 2 so maybe I'll find out why people don't SOBO, but I hope not.

It's fairly well argued that the trail seems to be set up more to the convenience of NOBOs, white blazes included. What perplexes me is how much more energy it would take when blazing to take two steps and put one on the other side of the tree.
With that said, hiking south is doable without the aid of maps or a compass. If you've lost sight of blazes in the woods neither of these things is likely to tell you something you don't already know.
Penne, you're in a small group that finds heading southbound has it's own allure above simply being on the trail. I doubt I'll ever hike north but the majority of the great people I've met on the trail are hiking that direction, there must be something to it.
There also is to going south.
Peace,
Warraghiyagey
SOBO7
June 1 - Katahdin Stream - sweet:)

Marta
05-10-2007, 06:39
I don't understand why there is such an aversion to Southbound. I've heard about the black flies, Katahdin tough to start with, and the Whites are a challenge, but that's really the only negatives I've heard. I'm starting my SOBO on June 2 so maybe I'll find out why people don't SOBO, but I hope not.

The weather arguement against going SOBO is a crock. You get to hike in the north during the height of the summer. (I started in July and hardly had any black fly problems.) By the time you get into the bad tick-infested areas (CT, NY) it's fall and the little beasts aren't as rampant as they were. (I don't know of any SOBOs who got Lyme disease last year, as opposed to the many NOBOs who had problems.) The days are warmish and the nights are pleasantly cool. When you get down South, the days are often warmish and the nights are cold, but usually not too cold.

The two major negatives are the short days/long nights after the equinox in the fall and the loneliness because most hikers are too chicken to go SOBO.:D

Marta/Five-Leaf

Lone Wolf
05-10-2007, 06:51
I would definitely take the maps if you're heading south. In order to encourage hikers to travel northbound (which is historically the safer direction for thru-hikers) the ATC only maintains around a 3:1 ratio of nobo blazes to sobo blazes. The debate on this policy has been the source of some heated debates among the leadership of the ATC in recent years, but it looks like we're stuck with it for the forseeable future. My advice would be to head north.

what a crock :rolleyes:

moxie
05-10-2007, 08:01
I am a member of the MATC, a thru hiker. and a trail maintainer. At least in Maine, my State, every north boud blaze is matched with a south bound blaze. There are 100 day and section hikers to every thru hiker that use the trail and they hike in both directions. Anyone who tells you there are less south bound blazes is either mistaken, lying to start an intresting fight, misinformed or just plain full of sh**. (Of course I can't speak for New Hampshire. The AMC hires college students to paint blazes and some of the white paint may end up on fraternity houses at Dartmouth)

Moon Monster
05-10-2007, 12:19
In order to encourage hikers to travel northbound (which is historically the safer direction for thru-hikers) the ATC only maintains around a 3:1 ratio of nobo blazes to sobo blazes. The debate on this policy has been the source of some heated debates among the leadership of the ATC in recent years, but it looks like we're stuck with it for the forseeable future.

This sounds like lore to me; a trail legend maybe. If it is true, it is not a smart policy. The AT was not originally envisioned for thru-hiking. Even now, it should be (and I think is) set up to accommodate day-use and section hiking primarily, and those activities are just as likely to be southbound as north.

spittinpigeon
05-10-2007, 15:01
This sounds like lore to me; a trail legend maybe. If it is true, it is not a smart policy. The AT was not originally envisioned for thru-hiking. Even now, it should be (and I think is) set up to accommodate day-use and section hiking primarily, and those activities are just as likely to be southbound as north.


Not to sound elitist, but I think thru hikers need more help than someone out for the day. Also, from what I've seen over the years, almost everyone is going north, including dayhikers.

Lone Wolf
05-10-2007, 15:28
Not to sound elitist, but I think thru hikers need more help than someone out for the day. Also, from what I've seen over the years, almost everyone is going north, including dayhikers.

that's a bunch of BS too

Old Hillwalker
05-10-2007, 15:57
I am a member of the MATC, a thru hiker. and a trail maintainer. At least in Maine, my State, every north boud blaze is matched with a south bound blaze. There are 100 day and section hikers to every thru hiker that use the trail and they hike in both directions. Anyone who tells you there are less south bound blazes is either mistaken, lying to start an intresting fight, misinformed or just plain full of sh**. (Of course I can't speak for New Hampshire. The AMC hires college students to paint blazes and some of the white paint may end up on fraternity houses at Dartmouth)

Geez what a load of moose dooky. I am a trail maintainer who works under the auspices of DOC. I am not a student or a member of the Dartmouth Outing Club nor am I or any other volunteer, paid. We attempt to paint Northbound and Southbound blazes equally. 3:1? as I said moose dooky. If the AMC pays college kids to perform trail maintenance it is news to us volunteers, and I feel it cheapens our worth. If it weren't for the volunteers, the AT wouldn't exist.

rafe
05-10-2007, 16:00
Of my 1600 (or so) AT miles, about 1000 have been NOBO and 600 SOBO. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the frequency or quality of the blazing, either way.

In either direction: sometimes the blazes are great, sometimes they're lacking. So it goes...

spittinpigeon
05-10-2007, 16:58
Geez what a load of moose dooky. I am a trail maintainer who works under the auspices of DOC. I am not a student or a member of the Dartmouth Outing Club nor am I or any other volunteer, paid. We attempt to paint Northbound and Southbound blazes equally. 3:1? as I said moose dooky. If the AMC pays college kids to perform trail maintenance it is news to us volunteers, and I feel it cheapens our worth. If it weren't for the volunteers, the AT wouldn't exist.

Maybe there's no 3:1 ratio there because when I went through last summer, it was the worst blazed section of trail I saw before and after that. All the signs were wrong, HUGE mileage discrepancies. However, I don't think the trail is purposely blazed more for nobos, it just happens that way.

Penne
05-10-2007, 17:56
Also, from what I've seen over the years, almost everyone is going north, including dayhikers.

The times I've done sections I've always hiked SOBO. I didn't realize that until after I had started planning my SOBO thru, maybe it feels so natural to go south because that's the way I've been going since I was 11.

Jester2000
05-10-2007, 18:39
Geez what a load of moose dooky. I am a trail maintainer who works under the auspices of DOC. I am not a student or a member of the Dartmouth Outing Club nor am I or any other volunteer, paid. We attempt to paint Northbound and Southbound blazes equally. 3:1? as I said moose dooky. If the AMC pays college kids to perform trail maintenance it is news to us volunteers, and I feel it cheapens our worth. If it weren't for the volunteers, the AT wouldn't exist.

You do realize that Moxie was joking about the Dartmouth thing, right?

I think inadequate blazing for Southbounders is just another thing Southbounders believe in order to maintain their "bastard child of the AT" belief system.

But there are reasons why the majority of people Northbound, and it's not just because it's the correct way to do it.

Weather IS an issue, whether you believe it or not. Most people prefer to follow Spring as they move up the trail, and finishing as Fall foliage is breakin' out all over in New England is spectacular.

Many people are daunted by the thought of starting with Katahdin and the Hundred Mile Wilderness. You can call this either lack of confidence or common sense, but either way it's true. And I know it's all about the journey and not the destination, but trust me, finishing on Springer compared to finishing on Katahdin is like . . .(I just typed out and deleted an inappropriate sexual metaphor) Easy Cheez instead of Vermont Cheddar. Both are enjoyable, but, you know.

As for the original question, I say that you probably don't NEED anything other than your wits and eyeballs to stay on the trail, but a map and compass never hurt anyone.

Except, of course, during the infamous "Map and Compass Riots" in Los Angeles in the '70s.

spittinpigeon
05-10-2007, 19:10
How are the white blazes going southbound? especially up north, Would a map be nice or can it be done without???


I would definitely take the maps if you're heading south. In order to encourage hikers to travel northbound (which is historically the safer direction for thru-hikers) the ATC only maintains around a 3:1 ratio of nobo blazes to sobo blazes. The debate on this policy has been the source of some heated debates among the leadership of the ATC in recent years, but it looks like we're stuck with it for the forseeable future. My advice would be to head north.


Yes, definitely abandon your plans to head south, it's treacherously dangerous, or... whenever you haven't seen a blaze for a while, simply look behind you.


I don't understand why there is such an aversion to Southbound. I've heard about the black flies, Katahdin tough to start with, and the Whites are a challenge, but that's really the only negatives I've heard. I'm starting my SOBO on June 2 so maybe I'll find out why people don't SOBO, but I hope not.


I am headed SOBO this June sometime. Don't worry about it. I would take a map and compass though. I think it is very bad advice to tell someone to do otherwise.

I did a section of the LT last fall SOBO. I could see more blazes if I looked North than South at times. A couple mountains I swear only had 5 blazes up and down them. I haven't been out there, but you should be able to reconize the trail most of the time.

See you out there. When are you starting?


It's fairly well argued that the trail seems to be set up more to the convenience of NOBOs, white blazes included. What perplexes me is how much more energy it would take when blazing to take two steps and put one on the other side of the tree.
With that said, hiking south is doable without the aid of maps or a compass. If you've lost sight of blazes in the woods neither of these things is likely to tell you something you don't already know.
Penne, you're in a small group that finds heading southbound has it's own allure above simply being on the trail. I doubt I'll ever hike north but the majority of the great people I've met on the trail are hiking that direction, there must be something to it.
There also is to going south.
Peace,
Warraghiyagey
SOBO7
June 1 - Katahdin Stream - sweet:)


The weather arguement against going SOBO is a crock. You get to hike in the north during the height of the summer. (I started in July and hardly had any black fly problems.) By the time you get into the bad tick-infested areas (CT, NY) it's fall and the little beasts aren't as rampant as they were. (I don't know of any SOBOs who got Lyme disease last year, as opposed to the many NOBOs who had problems.) The days are warmish and the nights are pleasantly cool. When you get down South, the days are often warmish and the nights are cold, but usually not too cold.

The two major negatives are the short days/long nights after the equinox in the fall and the loneliness because most hikers are too chicken to go SOBO.:D

Marta/Five-Leaf


what a crock :rolleyes:


I am a member of the MATC, a thru hiker. and a trail maintainer. At least in Maine, my State, every north boud blaze is matched with a south bound blaze. There are 100 day and section hikers to every thru hiker that use the trail and they hike in both directions. Anyone who tells you there are less south bound blazes is either mistaken, lying to start an intresting fight, misinformed or just plain full of sh**. (Of course I can't speak for New Hampshire. The AMC hires college students to paint blazes and some of the white paint may end up on fraternity houses at Dartmouth)


This sounds like lore to me; a trail legend maybe. If it is true, it is not a smart policy. The AT was not originally envisioned for thru-hiking. Even now, it should be (and I think is) set up to accommodate day-use and section hiking primarily, and those activities are just as likely to be southbound as north.


Not to sound elitist, but I think thru hikers need more help than someone out for the day. Also, from what I've seen over the years, almost everyone is going north, including dayhikers.


that's a bunch of BS too


Geez what a load of moose dooky. I am a trail maintainer who works under the auspices of DOC. I am not a student or a member of the Dartmouth Outing Club nor am I or any other volunteer, paid. We attempt to paint Northbound and Southbound blazes equally. 3:1? as I said moose dooky. If the AMC pays college kids to perform trail maintenance it is news to us volunteers, and I feel it cheapens our worth. If it weren't for the volunteers, the AT wouldn't exist.


Of my 1600 (or so) AT miles, about 1000 have been NOBO and 600 SOBO. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the frequency or quality of the blazing, either way.

In either direction: sometimes the blazes are great, sometimes they're lacking. So it goes...


Maybe there's no 3:1 ratio there because when I went through last summer, it was the worst blazed section of trail I saw before and after that. All the signs were wrong, HUGE mileage discrepancies. However, I don't think the trail is purposely blazed more for nobos, it just happens that way.


The times I've done sections I've always hiked SOBO. I didn't realize that until after I had started planning my SOBO thru, maybe it feels so natural to go south because that's the way I've been going since I was 11.


You do realize that Moxie was joking about the Dartmouth thing, right?

I think inadequate blazing for Southbounders is just another thing Southbounders believe in order to maintain their "bastard child of the AT" belief system.

But there are reasons why the majority of people Northbound, and it's not just because it's the correct way to do it.

Weather IS an issue, whether you believe it or not. Most people prefer to follow Spring as they move up the trail, and finishing as Fall foliage is breakin' out all over in New England is spectacular.

Many people are daunted by the thought of starting with Katahdin and the Hundred Mile Wilderness. You can call this either lack of confidence or common sense, but either way it's true. And I know it's all about the journey and not the destination, but trust me, finishing on Springer compared to finishing on Katahdin is like . . .(I just typed out and deleted an inappropriate sexual metaphor) Easy Cheez instead of Vermont Cheddar. Both are enjoyable, but, you know.

As for the original question, I say that you probably don't NEED anything other than your wits and eyeballs to stay on the trail, but a map and compass never hurt anyone.

Except, of course, during the infamous "Map and Compass Riots" in Los Angeles in the '70s.

That's all a load of B/S.

Appalachian Tater
05-10-2007, 19:11
Really, the only people who care whether they're headed north or south are thru-hikers and there are only a couple of thousand of those a year. The other million people don't even know which way they're going.

Appalachian Tater
05-10-2007, 19:11
That's all a load of B/S.

That's a lot of work to compose.

Jester2000
05-10-2007, 19:20
That's all a load of B/S.

What, are you taking creative writing lessons from Pirate?

rafe
05-10-2007, 19:42
Weather IS an issue, whether you believe it or not. Most people prefer to follow Spring as they move up the trail, and finishing as Fall foliage is breakin' out all over in New England is spectacular.

Two more issues. The sun is in the south, yes? Walk nobo and you rarely face into the sun while hiking. Also: most wind and weather comes from the south and west. Walk nobo and you're more likely to have the wind at your back.

warraghiyagey
05-10-2007, 20:08
Two more issues. The sun is in the south, yes? Walk nobo and you rarely face into the sun while hiking. Also: most wind and weather comes from the south and west. Walk nobo and you're more likely to have the wind at your back.

Hmmm . . . first of all the sun rises in the east (gradually more southeast after December 21 and more northeast after June 21st. So heading NOBO which includes a northeasterly vector over the length would put a NOBO facing the sun through much of every morning, which kind of completely falls out of the 'rarely' category.
Additionally - in the northeast most weather comes from the west in the summertime but by late August it gradually shifts from the northwest or north and stays like that all winter. The wind is not 'likely' to be at you're back through a good portion of the trail, and considering the tree cover, wind is a nominal condition at most.
No offense though T2. I dig your stuff. I guess I just had to be a smarty pants. Think I'm just getting fidgety.
Peace:) :)

Warraghiyagey
SOBO7

warraghiyagey
05-10-2007, 20:11
That's all a load of B/S.


Beater, how dare you include me in this quote.:eek: Why don't you come over here and say that. Or better yet bring your guitar and I'll supply the beer and talk you into going SOBO again.:) :)

rafe
05-10-2007, 20:48
I guess I just had to be a smarty pants.

Well, I don't claim those two reasons are sufficient in themselves to choose one direction over another.

Fidgety? Yeah. One of my favorite mind-games these days is picking a direction for this summer's section hike -- the final one, hopefully. Logistics suggest nobo (walking toward home) but emotionally, the best ending would be at the place where I left the trail in 1990 -- a sobo hike.

warraghiyagey
05-10-2007, 21:00
Well, I don't claim those two reasons are sufficient in themselves to choose one direction over another.

Fidgety? Yeah. One of my favorite mind-games these days is picking a direction for this summer's section hike -- the final one, hopefully. Logistics suggest nobo (walking toward home) but emotionally, the best ending would be at the place where I left the trail in 1990 -- a sobo hike.

If you get an idea of where and when PM or e-mail me. I'm going SOBO June 1 and it would be cool to meet you if you're out there.
Peace:)

Warraghiyagey

Marta
05-10-2007, 21:09
Beater, how dare you include me in this quote.:eek:

Why not include you? He also included himself.

Marta/Five-Leaf

rafe
05-10-2007, 21:09
If you get an idea of where and when PM or e-mail me. I'm going SOBO June 1 and it would be cool to meet you if you're out there.
Peace:)

Warraghiyagey

The hike starts early August and ends mid-September. The region I'm covering is from Lehigh Gap to VA Rte. 610, near Newport/Roanoke.

spittinpigeon
05-10-2007, 21:23
What, are you taking creative writing lessons from Pirate?

Actually no, it's L Wolf. I'm new to this planet and from what I've seen so far, I've concluded that he is your leader. Short, negative posts that get right to the point, he hates it here. The only reason he stays is that he must be tied to his duties as your ruler.

Lone Wolf
05-10-2007, 21:31
What, are you taking creative writing lessons from Pirate?

from me obviously

warraghiyagey
05-10-2007, 21:39
Actually no, it's L Wolf. I'm new to this planet and from what I've seen so far, I've concluded that he is your leader. Short, negative posts that get right to the point, he hates it here. The only reason he stays is that he must be tied to his duties as your ruler.

Well allrighty then.:)

Beater, PM me man.

Marta - SP (Beater) knows the humor meant in the entire post - not just the part you quoted. And by the way, for the sake of good energy, if you respond to a quote you altered, it's OK to go ahead and throw a little ". . ." in there where you made your cuts.
Gives the participants a chance to realize it's not in context.":)

Peace

spittinpigeon
05-10-2007, 21:43
Well allrighty then.:)

Beater, PM me man.

peace

I just did, I wanna come hang out in Boston but I'm tied up back here with all my procrastination and women and music, alcohol and the internet. I should never complain.

Marta
05-10-2007, 21:48
Marta - SP (Beater) knows the humor meant in the entire post - not just the part you quoted. And by the way, for the sake of good energy, if you respond to a quote you altered, it's OK to go ahead and throw a little ". . ." in there where you made your cuts.
Gives the participants a chance to realize it's not in context.":)

Peace


I am not half as dumb as you apparently think I am.

Or maybe I am, since I stooped to respond to this.

Blissful
05-10-2007, 21:50
Many a time I looked behind me at the southbound blaze so I knew I was still on the trail and hadn't missed a turn. Three cheers for the south blazes to keep me on the straight and narrow! :)

And saw many hikers doing their sections and flip flops southbound. Way to go!

Lone Wolf
05-10-2007, 21:53
How are the white blazes going southbound? especially up north, Would a map be nice or can it be done without???

the white blazes going SOBO, especially up north are as good as NOBO white blazes in the south. always bring a map.

Appalachian Tater
05-10-2007, 21:54
Many a time I looked behind me at the southbound blaze so I knew I was still on the trail and hadn't missed a turn.

If there had been a northbound blaze, you wouldn't have had to look!

Seems to me that when northbound blazes are scare, southbound blazes are scarcer.

rafe
05-10-2007, 21:58
Seems to me that when northbound blazes are scare, southbound blazes are scarcer.

I've thought of wearing one of those bicycle mirrors so's I can look backwards at the blazes in t'other direction. I do a lot of looking southwards when I'm walking north, and vice-versa.

moxie
05-10-2007, 22:55
The kids who work for the AMC just finished painting the I Felta Thi house at Dartmouth with the paint that was supposed to be used for south bound blazes in the Whites. Just use your mirror to check the norrth bound blazes and you will have no problem. Oh- I Felti Thi is no longer allowing thru hikers to sleep on the floor in the bar. The white fraternity house looks great. They painted the shutters blue with paint meant for the side trails.

Old Hillwalker
05-10-2007, 23:10
The kids who work for the AMC just finished painting the I Felta Thi house at Dartmouth with the paint that was supposed to be used for south bound blazes in the Whites. Just use your mirror to check the norrth bound blazes and you will have no problem. Oh- I Felti Thi is no longer allowing thru hikers to sleep on the floor in the bar. The white fraternity house looks great. They painted the shutters blue with paint meant for the side trails.

Damn fool kids also used up all my yellow boundary marking paint on the frat's bathroom floors.

Jack Tarlin
05-11-2007, 01:46
Silly thread.

There is no "historic safe direction" for thru hiking and the ATC doesn't encourage or discourage hikers from hiking in whatever direction they wish. And as for a "ratio" of painted blazes depending on which direction you're hiking, this is also ridiculous. Another really good example of expert Trail advice from someone who needs to spend more time out there......

It's really simple: Bring a current map (and know how to read it!) no matter which way you go, and no matter how long you're in the woods. The answer to T-Wing's question is yeah, bring a map. All the time. You can do without one easily.

Till you screw up.

RSWillis
05-11-2007, 02:10
Yes, definitely abandon your plans to head south, it's treacherously dangerous, or... whenever you haven't seen a blaze for a while, simply look behind you.

Thats right Beater, hit em with the SOBO sarcasm. They all know SOBO's are better anyway.

RSWillis
05-11-2007, 02:20
The only thing anyone on the AT needs a map for is blue blazing or yellow blazing. The trail is almost impossible to lose everywhere except Maine. Hell, a blind man hiked it!
Hubcap- (just summited Springer last night) Hoooooorrraaayyy!!!!

RSWillis
05-11-2007, 02:21
Met two NOBO's today who quit at the springer parking lot on rt.42. ;-(

warraghiyagey
05-11-2007, 03:12
I am not half as dumb as you apparently think I am.

Or maybe I am, since I stooped to respond to this.

I see nothing in the post that even hints that I think you're dumb. :confused: I'm not sure where you found that. All I see is an appeal to be considerate when taking someone's quote out of context - especially when responding to it (especially in a contentious way). ;)

Example:


. . . since I stooped to respond to this.

Sorry you felt compelled to stoop but hopefully my point is a little clearer.:)

Peace
Warraghiyagey

rafe
05-11-2007, 06:52
The trail is almost impossible to lose everywhere except Maine.

Maine is special in this regard?? Hell, I can lose the trail almost anywhere.

The Scribe
05-11-2007, 08:06
Damn fool kids also used up all my yellow boundary marking paint on the frat's bathroom floors.

Now that's the spirit!!!:banana:banana

spittinpigeon
05-11-2007, 11:41
Can someone start hating someone soon please?

Jester2000
05-11-2007, 19:11
The only reason he stays is that he must be tied to his duties as your ruler.

Can't be. A ruler has 12 inches.

spittinpigeon
05-11-2007, 20:14
Can't be. A ruler has 12 inches.

I hate you.

DawnTreader
05-11-2007, 22:49
Beater.. I hate you for sending your hammock home..