View Full Version : Burt's Bee's
BigwaveDave
05-18-2007, 16:12
I read a a comment on one of the treads concerning Burts Bees, is there some issue with the company? Just curious.
their lip gloss is the best, only thing i use
as far as the company, there is controversy over land that the owner of burt's bees has bought, they want to turn it into a big preserve or something, but it would mess things up for hunters, don't know the exacts, a mainer will be able to tell you about that
The owner of Burts Bees, a Mz Quimby I believe, is a multi millionaire. She has purchased out right hundreds (or is it thousands?) of acres of land in Maine to perhaps one day be included in a proposed Maine Woods National Park. The idea is to preserve the land as wilderness. Others prefer to keep it open to hunting and logging.
Up around Abol Bridge there were signs in the store calling for boycotting of Burts Bees. Some people dont like How she comes in and takes land off the chopping block.
Personally.. I would be more than happy to support Burts Bees. Were it up to me, All the undeveloped land north and west of Monson (that big blank spot you see on road maps) would be forever protected.
There's land in eastern Maine for lumbering..move it out there. And as for the ORV's and snowmobiles..god.. i wish they could just be wiped out altogether!
David
DavidNH.
BigwaveDave
05-18-2007, 17:34
Now I understand, I guess I'll have to continue to use Burt's stuff, I don't have a problem with hunters or anyone else. If she bought the land then I guess it hers to do as she sees fit. It doesn't sound like she intends to rape, burn or destroy it. Didn't Baxter basically do the same?
i think its literally next to baxter state park here found this link
http://www.restore.org/Maine/purchase.html couldn't find anything supporting the other side, but i don't really care to support the other side.
This is off topic but Roxanne Quimby's Daughter Hannah, aka "Songbird", is a 1999 thru hiker and current ATC Board member.
BigwaveDave
05-18-2007, 19:12
Thanks Thickredhair, we don't hear much about happenings in Maine here in Florida.
BWD
"Not all who wander are lost"
bullseye
05-18-2007, 20:36
My understanding of the Burts Bees situation is that Ms Quimby was a back to nature hippie type chick who was running her company out of a location in Maine, but couldn't find the workforce she needed (according to her), so she moved her company south (NC or SC I think). She was basically shunned as a traitor, and after selling out for big bucks moved back to Maine where she has gotten the cold shoulder ever since. Most of the details are foggy but I read about this in a major mag a few years back. Maybe someone else has a more accurate picture?:-?
aaroniguana
05-18-2007, 20:40
No the part about buying up all the forested land and shutting out the loggers and hunters was quite accurate. The part about moving her business out of Maine and then thumbing her nose at them, well, that's her prerogative.
The General
05-18-2007, 20:45
I simply cannot see a problem with Roxanne Quimby's ethics here. She has been fortunate to be in the position to purchase considerable portions of Land that some of which would have been lost to developers and destroyed for ever. If a park was to be created in the future it would also likely benifit the local economy as well as preserve the land for future generations to enjoy in as natural state as possible. I for one rather hike in wilderness than houses that's for sure.
More power to you Ms Quimby
aaroniguana
05-18-2007, 21:18
There really isn't a problem with her ethics. The problem is in the short-sightedness of the logging industry and its hold on Maine. She'd receive the same welcome if she went into Michigan, bought up forested land and forbade the use of motorized vehicles.
Anyway the point is moot since the current administration has allowed both logging and oil exploration in national parks in several states.
ferryman
05-18-2007, 21:21
At first, I was reluctant to support Roxanne and her efforts to establish a wilderness preserve abutting Baxter State Park, but the more I learned of her intentions for the use of her land, the more I became a fan of hers. As a board member of the International Appalachian Trail, she has been more than enthusiatic to help this fledgling hiking club establish a hiking trail through her property onwards towards Cape Gaspe, Quebec. While most of the IAT through Maine was a road walk, the trail thru Quimby's property east of Baxter State Park has taken on a life of it's own creating incredible panoramic views of Katahdin and a genuine North Maine Woods experience. Landowners to the north are the same who sold land at or below market value for the creation of the permanent Appalachian Trail. If you have ever hiked the 100 mile wilderness, you know what I'm talking about! In the meantime any business establishment that carries the Ban Roxanne bumper sticker, I deliberately avoid. Sometimes being the savior of the future brings a high price to pay in the present land grabbing profiteering world. I only wish there were more conservation minded folks out there! Steve the ferryman
Lone Wolf
05-19-2007, 00:53
I read a a comment on one of the treads concerning Burts Bees, is there some issue with the company? Just curious.
yeah. overrated, overpriced,
BigwaveDave
05-19-2007, 10:29
Kinda like gasoline
Roxanne Quimby founded Burt's Bees. A few years ago she sold an 80 percent interest for a reported $150 million or something like that. I believe she remains as president or some other high officer in the company. Most of the land she has purchased in Maine was placed on the market by paper companies and logging companies. Had she not bought the land it would have probably been bought by land developers.
The choice for most of her purchases was not logging and hunting vs preservation, but preservation vs condominiums.
The hunting argument is basically phony. Under Maine law owners do not have the right to just ban hunting. They must ban all public use, including hunting. She has not done that.
Therefore hunting continues. What hunters are upset about is her talk about eventually banning motorized vehicles, i.e. four wheel drive trucks and ATV's that enable them to get to their hunting grounds easily.
The only way hunting can be legally banned is for the area to become a National Park. That is unlikely anytime soon, since virtually the entire political establishment in Maine, both Democratic and Republican, oppose the idea.
However, having visited all the great national parks over the years and being very familiar with northern and western Maine, it's my opinion that a Maine North Woods National Park would be the equal or superior to the best of the existing National Parks.
It would also fill a major gap in the National Park system -- the unique northeastern forest with its wild mountains, rivers and streams. By world standards this is close to a northern rain forest. The regions plentiful precipitation is almost equally spread among the 12 months. Unlike most of the great parks of the west, a Maine North Woods Parks would have no drouth season. It's a forest that is always wet, always pleasant, always beautiful.
Weary
She is several generations ahead of the extractive nature of the local population. Preservation is good. Some people do not like change.
Living adjacent to a national park, I assure you that is not the answer. "They" always have money to pay administrators, and build buildings, but have endless nuts and bolts budget issues.
Quimby went to NC because the state made her an offer that ME could not even approach. Took her payroll with her, as is her right.
I hope in the future she does not post her land.
Cookerhiker
05-19-2007, 10:47
Roxanne Quimby founded Burt's Bees. A few years ago she sold an 80 percent interest for a reported $150 million or something like that. I believe she remains as president or some other high officer in the company. Most of the land she has purchased in Maine was placed on the market by paper companies and logging companies. Had she not bought the land it would have probably been bought by land developers.
The choice for most of her purchases was not logging and hunting vs preservation, but preservation vs condominiums.
The hunting argument is basically phony. Under Maine law owners do not have the right to just ban hunting. They must ban all public use, including hunting. She has not done that.
Therefore hunting continues. What hunters are upset about is her talk about eventually banning motorized vehicles, i.e. four wheel drive trucks and ATV's that enable them to get to their hunting grounds easily.
The only way hunting can be legally banned is for the area to become a National Park. That is unlikely anytime soon, since virtually the entire political establishment in Maine, both Democratic and Republican, oppose the idea.
However, having visited all the great national parks over the years and being very familiar with northern and western Maine, it's my opinion that a Maine North Woods National Park would be the equal or superior to the best of the existing National Parks.
It would also fill a major gap in the National Park system -- the unique northeastern forest with its wild mountains, rivers and streams. By world standards this is close to a northern rain forest. The regions plentiful precipitation is almost equally spread among the 12 months. Unlike most of the great parks of the west, a Maine North Woods Parks would have no drouth season. It's a forest that is always wet, always pleasant, always beautiful.
Weary
Weary in your opinion, is a compromise possible by creating a National Park and Preserve (emphasis mine) under which some hunting would be permitted? Would the Maine political establishment and hunters support this? There are several such entities in the National Park system such as Big South Fork in KY/TN, Delaware Water Gap in NJ, and many of the Alaskan parks.
TJ aka Teej
05-19-2007, 13:11
Roxanne Quimby's all right by my lights. I'm not sure if Weary's right about having to allow hunting on privately owned land that is open for other uses. For decades our land in Maine was posted No Hunting, but we allowed horse and snow machine use, banned bikes and ATVs, and allowed fishing. Twice that I can remember hunters were fined for taking deer on our posted land.
TJ aka Teej
05-19-2007, 13:14
...is a compromise possible by creating a National Park and Preserve (emphasis mine) under which some hunting would be permitted? Would the Maine political establishment and hunters support this?
Baxter Park has that model. Hunting is allowed in some of the southern section the AT passes through (no bear baiting, though) and almost all the rest of the Park is a Game Preserve.
Roxanne Quimby founded Burt's Bees. A few years ago she sold an 80 percent interest for a reported $150 million
What a country. $150 million "spare change" for selling lip balm. Gotta love it. :rolleyes:
Roxanne Quimby's all right by my lights. I'm not sure if Weary's right about having to allow hunting on privately owned land that is open for other uses. For decades our land in Maine was posted No Hunting, but we allowed horse and snow machine use, banned bikes and ATVs, and allowed fishing. Twice that I can remember hunters were fined for taking deer on our posted land.
All I know is what our town land trust was told by a game warden when we tried to get him to enforce our restriction against ATVs. He said Inland Fisheries and Wildlife wasn't going to help us manage our land, that if we posted against all trespass he would help us, but otherwise he could do nothing.
A couple of years ago the law was changed to allow selective posting against ATVs. And I think a few years before that the law was changed that had allowed selective posting of no hunting.
I think the latter change was designed to head off private hunting preserves, such as are common in some southern and western states. However, I haven't researched the law in any detail recently.
As for whether a compromise is possible by creating a National Park and Preserve where some hunting would be permitted? I'm not that in touch with the political establishment any more.
I think the opposition to a National Park and Preserve stems from the dream that the paper companies and their well-paying jobs will come back. It aint going to happen, but the dream lives on. Restore the North Woods, the major support for a Park stresses making part of the land a preserve.
I don't doubt that at some point some sort of federal protection is likely. The state and private conservation organizations like the Trust for Public Lands, and the Nature Conservancy have purchased either easements or all the rights to two million acres or so. This removes the cost of buying developable lands, making future park/preserve acquisition relatively inexpensive.
Weary
What a country. $150 million "spare change" for selling lip balm. Gotta love it. :rolleyes:
Put your money on the next lip balm killing
http://www.strangenewproducts.com/2005/12/cheetos-lip-balm.html
aaroniguana
05-19-2007, 20:10
Ok, that's just gross. I mean, Cheetos without the crunch? That would belike hiking without the hills!
Wait, forgot the FST, sorry... ;)
Roxie Q. hasn't done anything Percival Baxter didn't do. Love her or hate her all I can say is I don't know of anyone who doesn't admire Percival Baxter and the park he created. History will be the best judge of R. Quimby and what she spent her Burts Bees money on. I hunt and snowmobile but I don't need to do it on every inch of Maine. Now I will shut up as I am running for the Maine State Legislature and if the hook, bullet, ATV and snowmobile people get wind of this it will be used against me. Oh well- I feel how I feel.:)
Toolshed
05-20-2007, 09:57
What a country. $150 million "spare change" for selling lip balm. Gotta love it. :rolleyes:
Charging $5 for tubes of $.16 lip balm ......And you people bitch about a $2 life saving pharmaceutical tablet!:-? :-? :-?
saimyoji
05-20-2007, 20:44
And you people bitch about a $2 life saving pharmaceutical tablet!
To what tablet do you refer?
aaroniguana
05-20-2007, 21:29
Do you think he means Viagra?
Do you think he means Viagra?
Nah. Viagra costs around $10 a tablet, not $2.
No the part about buying up all the forested land and shutting out the loggers and hunters was quite accurate. The part about moving her business out of Maine and then thumbing her nose at them, well, that's her prerogative.
Yes on the logging:In recent years, logging companies have sold millions of acres of timberland with about a quarter of the state's land base changing hands...The land she has bought so far generally will be left alone so it can recover from heavy logging.
She has no problem with hunting: "Another objection raised by many is that national parks are restrictive and that traditional Maine activities such as hunting and snowmobiling wouldn1t be allowed. According to RESTORE's own literature, a portion of the 3.2 million acres would be set aside as a park, where hunting and snowmobiling would be prohibited. But the majority of the land would be managed as a preserve where those activities could occur."
Maine land purchased with eye on U.S. park
Bangor Daily News
Tuesday, July 10, 2001
Man I can't wait to do do some of the Maine AT and maybe a few footfalls across Roxanne's woods!:banana
oldfivetango
05-21-2007, 19:23
For the record-REAL MEN use Chapstick;unflavored at that.
But if she can found and market some trendy overpriced items
for all the old hippies out there and they are stupid enough to
pay the price for that cachet of "bees wax" then my only comment
is "you go,girl".And I find it admirable that she would make the attempt
to keep some of the great state of Maine pristine for future generations.
We need more people like her from what I can tell.I believe if you would
research her you will find she lives a life unencumbered by even electrical
appliances and indoor plumbing or at least she did until she had to move the
business.Not the average multimillionaire by any stretch of the imagination.
Oldfivetango
....Not the average multimillionaire by any stretch of the imagination. Oldfivetango
Very true. She's a very wise and rare sophisticated person, with that rare combination of a business sense and a respect for the importance for preserving land for our children, grandchildren and future generations forever.
Few of us have $150 million. But we can all do the same thing. There are scores of groups, organizing to contribute together to protect the trail from development.
My favorite is the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust, probably because I helped found it. But we somehow have been able to buy several thousand acres of Abraham and land on the slopes of Saddle Back.
The opportunity has never been greater -- and the resouces so few.
Weary www.matlt.org
...My favorite is the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust, probably because I helped found it. But we somehow have been able to buy several thousand acres of Abraham and land on the slopes of Saddle Back.
The opportunity has never been greater -- and the resouces so few.
Weary www.matlt.org (http://www.matlt.org)
It takes individuals, organizations like yours, good political decisions, and corporate stewardship. I’m proud that the company I work for has donated nearly 10,000 acres they formally owned to the state of Tennessee ... one of the largest land donations in history to the state by a private company.
Mr. Clean
05-24-2007, 04:21
I believe that one of the biggest reasons that she left Maine with her company was because the State was unfriendly to small businesses, which her company was at the time. It turned out to be a good decision for her. I'm not sure I like the National Park idea, but land preserved in any form is better than some of the alternatives.
Nightwalker
05-24-2007, 04:46
The reason that I was told that so many rural Mainers don't like the company is that they burned a number of hunting camps that were a number of generations old. Access was still allowed, but the camps were burned. There was also talk of limiting access tocertain specific times of the year.
All my info was from people who were ticked off, so differing weights of salt should possibly be taken with...
Burt's Bees was not founded by Roxanne Quimby! It was founded by Burt (who owned the bees, honey, and beeswax). He was already selling his honey and stuff before she came around. they decided to work together and HE suggested she make candles with the beeswax and that is when they started making some money. If you want a condensed version of the story go to the website and you can read all about it. burtsbees.com
The site also talks about the company being environmental friendly and how their products are natural yadda, yadda, yadda.
I like the products and do not think they are overated. I use them on my dogs and cats and they work just as well for them. I love the lip balm. It takes care of fever blisters better than that 17.00 for a 1/4 ounce of abreva. talk about overated and overpriced!
anyway, i like the products and will continue to support them. As far as her buying the land and doing with it what she wants...more power to her.
I believe that one of the biggest reasons that she left Maine with her company was because the State was unfriendly to small businesses, which her company was at the time. .....
And I believe that's wrong. Maine has never in my long residence been unfriendly to small businesses. We do have environmental laws that a lot of big businesses don't like. But we have always loved small businesses.
Weary
katagious
05-27-2007, 09:02
And I believe that's wrong. Maine has never in my long residence been unfriendly to small businesses. We do have environmental laws that a lot of big businesses don't like. But we have always loved small businesses.
Weary
Maine's taxes and restrictive licensing laws are very unfriendly to small businesses. In my opinion (for what it's worth) the people of Maine are very enterprising and small business is a way of life here. Unfortunately..any amount of success is usually treated with a wack up side the head by the tax hungry mob in 'gusta.
I'm bettin some people from heah just don't like the ideah of an outa statah buyin up all of our land. Ayuh. :D
Maine's taxes and restrictive licensing laws are very unfriendly to small businesses. In my opinion (for what it's worth) the people of Maine are very enterprising and small business is a way of life here. Unfortunately..any amount of success is usually treated with a wack up side the head by the tax hungry mob in 'gusta.
I'm bettin some people from heah just don't like the ideah of an outa statah buyin up all of our land. Ayuh. :D
What hurts the state of Maine more than anything is that we all take pride in complaining about taxes and Maine weather, and the allegedly poor business climate.
Much of it stems from complaints by the paper industry when we mustered the courage to be the first state in the nation to force them to clean up the rivers they were polluting.
The companies all insisted they would leave the state if we forced them to clean up. Instead they all built new and rebuilt old mills and in the process doubled the paper-making capacity.
Sadly they built more mills than the forests could supply and began to run out of wood and have now sold their lands to developers.
Maine has the best quality of life of any state for those of us who enjoy the four seasons and the outdoors. I live in a small town on the busy coast of Maine but I need but walk up the road a quarter mile to find a hiking trail and a woodland for exploring and hunting.
One can live and operate a small business in Maine as cheaply as any place in the nation. That's why we are among the fastest growing states population wise, and have so many small businesses.
However, I applaud those who persist in telling fibs about our high taxes and expensive lives and cold weather. It keeps some newcomers away and thus curtails for a while the profits of the land speculators.
Weary
katagious
05-27-2007, 12:00
What hurts the state of Maine more than anything is that we all take pride in complaining about taxes and Maine weather, and the allegedly poor business climate.
Much of it stems from complaints by the paper industry when we mustered the courage to be the first state in the nation to force them to clean up the rivers they were polluting.
The companies all insisted they would leave the state if we forced them to clean up. Instead they all built new and rebuilt old mills and in the process doubled the paper-making capacity.
Sadly they built more mills than the forests could supply and began to run out of wood and have now sold their lands to developers.
I'm not sure that I would completely agree with you summation. But, I'm willing to let it lie for another conversation at another time....
Maine has the best quality of life of any state for those of us who enjoy the four seasons and the outdoors. I live in a small town on the busy coast of Maine but I need but walk up the road a quarter mile to find a hiking trail and a woodland for exploring and hunting.
It has a great quality of life, for many of us. Perhaps, not the BEST..but definately equal to any other. I only need to hit my backyard and I can hike for miles up on miles without running into another human being or homestead. (would like to keep it that way)
One can live and operate a small business in Maine as cheaply as any place in the nation. That's why we are among the fastest growing states population wise, and have so many small businesses.
I really would like to see the data your basing your conclusion on. I don't find anything online to support this. According to http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_pop_per_cha_200-population-percent-change-2000-2005 which bases it's data on the U.S. Census. we're not even in the top 20 for percentage of population growth.
Lucky us though, we do make the top 10 for total tax burden per GDP. :-? http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_tol_tax_bur_pergdp-total-tax-burden-per-gdp
However, I applaud those who persist in telling fibs about our high taxes and expensive lives and cold weather. It keeps some newcomers away and thus curtails for a while the profits of the land speculators.
Weary
Hmmmm...insults...vinegar...honey..and all that....:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
05-27-2007, 12:01
I read a a comment on one of the treads concerning Burts Bees, is there some issue with the company? Just curious.
yeah, it's way overpriced
Hmmmm...insults...vinegar...honey..and all that....:rolleyes:
I read somewhere's that Maine is increasing in population relative to other states -- maybe they were talking regionally. Anyway my town is booming population wise -- though most are retirees looking for the good life, or something.
Maybe it's because our land trust and others have managed to protect 27 percent of the land in town -- which is rare in Maine where only 6 percent of the state is publicly owned -- though more than a million acres of state-wide easements over the last decade have helped a bit.
The problem, of course, is that our town has become so attractive, that land prices are rising, and few natives can afford to buy land here any more. I'm not a native. I was born a mile away and will always be that radical newcomer -- even after 45 years.
Which, of course, is how it should be. Our property taxes are rising, even though the retirees don't have school kids and need few other services other than the ambulance -- which is run by volunteers.
They do like to spend freely, though. I used to predict that unless we controlled growth taxes would go up. Natives insisted they could control spending by voting at town meetings. I predicted that soon they would be outnumbered. Sadly it has happened.
Weary