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Rainbow_Brite
05-21-2007, 22:21
So my boyfriend (Mt. Dew) and I were camping at Trail Days in the parking area of tent city when our packs were stolen. They were leaning up against the outside of our tent while we were sleeping, and they were just gone in the morning. The police said that others had reported theirs missing as well. Does anyone know anyone else who lost one? Does anyone remember seeing anything like that on Saturday night? We're not realistically expecting to get them back, but if anyone's got any insight we'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Rainbow Brite

Gaiter
05-21-2007, 22:39
a red headed hiker named "shawa" (not sure on that spelling but try pronouncing it) had his pack stolen as well, i was speaking to him sun morning and i only got bits and pieces but, it sounded like he didn't fall asleep near his stuff, and when he got there on sun, everything but his cooking stove was gone, that was sitting right where his stuff had been, he said his tarp had been set up and that was gone w/ his pack, he didn't know what he was going to do.

Ewker
05-21-2007, 22:43
A friend of mine had his pack and all the stuff he bought Sat stolen Sat night also. It was attached to a tree next to his hammock.

RockStar
05-21-2007, 23:36
Good God. What the heck are they gonna do with the packs? Try to sell them or something? Maybe I should be looking for them on ebay? Its not like ppl havent been busted before for selling stolen stuff on ebay. I think a stinky pack and items in it that match the description of said stolen items would constitute some charges at least. Something? Ya think?

spittinpigeon
05-22-2007, 00:43
Good God. What the heck are they gonna do with the packs? Try to sell them or something? Maybe I should be looking for them on ebay? Its not like ppl havent been busted before for selling stolen stuff on ebay. I think a stinky pack and items in it that match the description of said stolen items would constitute some charges at least. Something? Ya think?


This was my first TD and (correct me if I'm wrong, which obviously I am with what I'm about to say) I was under the impression that locals were not allowed in tent city, but I spotted a few, and one of them had nothing good to say about us. Despite the fact that he was 'cleaning up' with all of our empties.

RockStar
05-22-2007, 03:06
I dunno. I haven't been to one either. I can see why locals wouldn't be allowed though.

Roland
05-22-2007, 04:48
Don't forget that it's the "locals" that volunteer their time and their tax dollars to support Trail Days.

LEGS
05-22-2007, 05:13
I dunno. I haven't been to one either. I can see why locals wouldn't be allowed though.

and why shouldnt they be allowed, its thier town and they are the host for the week. when was the last time you went to a party and the host was not allowed to attend. come on man, what kind of logic is that.
but i would like to know why you think the locals shouldnt be allowed?
ha! damn glad your not on the traildays planning board. but then again your not a hiker or a local are you? so probably wont be seein much of you around town or the trail anyway.

LEGS
05-22-2007, 05:16
This was my first TD and (correct me if I'm wrong, which obviously I am with what I'm about to say) I was under the impression that locals were not allowed in tent city, but I spotted a few, and one of them had nothing good to say about us. Despite the fact that he was 'cleaning up' with all of our empties.


where in the hell did you get that idea, ya smokin some wacky stuff man. locals aint allowed, get real! thier town, thier party for you, they are the hosts, so what ever gave you the idea they werent allowed. it is an open public gathering advertised nation wide man, who is not allowed?

LEGS
05-22-2007, 05:18
Don't forget that it's the "locals" that volunteer their time and their tax dollars to support Trail Days.
tell it like it is brother!!! wild that they would even think that way isnt it?

neighbor dave
05-22-2007, 05:22
where in the hell did you get that idea, ya smokin some wacky stuff man. locals aint allowed, get real! thier town, thier party for you, they are the hosts, so what ever gave you the idea they werent allowed. it is an open public gathering advertised nation wide man, who is not allowed?
:-? i ain't never bin ta wonna dem parties but iffin yer aksin me eyed say dirtbag meth freaks wif sticky fingurs:-?

fonsie
05-22-2007, 06:40
This is why I sleep with my pack in my tent with me...... No matter where I am.

generoll
05-22-2007, 07:22
why would you automatically assume that the packs were stolen by locals? are you sure another hiker wasn't looking for an upgrade?

TinAbbey
05-22-2007, 07:30
yeah mine was stolen as well. strange. don't know why hikers would want more gear to carry. it wasn't even a pack thats big enough to hike with.

shuffle
05-22-2007, 07:33
It just seems so wrong to think that other hikers would steal them. When they know how important a pack is to a hiker. But I guess maybe I try to see the good in all and not look at what people are capable of. It is impossible for hikers to lock their packs up while at trail days. Unless they find someone who will put their packs in their car for them. I came by car this year and set up a tent. But I kept things inside my car all day when not there. It seems so disturbing to think one has to worry about packs getting stolen when at trail days. Don't they realize that a hiker's pack is all he has for 2000 plus miles???

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 07:36
:-? i ain't never bin ta wonna dem parties but iffin yer aksin me eyed say dirtbag meth freaks wif sticky fingurs:-?Sounds as good as anything else. Legs, you gonna stand up for the meth-freaks? They might possibly be locals. I also like the idea they could be hikers. It's a shame these people lost their backpacks. I didn't see that coming.

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 07:39
legs, it was good to see you again at trail days. richard the can man was the local referenced here. hes cool. helped him gather cans and hit the motherload around the 2006 tent. he was cool to meet. as are all locals of all trail towns ,...cool. the can man showed up early and worked hard all day. at 4 oclock another can collector showed up and was bitching that " someone had beat him to it" as if he had a chance showing up so late. and as if hes a local. ha! not knowing the can man and being a can guy himself proves he was an outsider come to try to put richard the can king out of buizz. shame! and yes there were pack theives. but they were one. i watched as the dudes truck was robbed by this theif. i didnt react cause the theif had the same shape in the dark as baltimore jack who was to sleep in the dudes car that nite. as i cant see ***** in the nite, i thaught it was maby jack. but found out later it was the theif. hes a plump man slightly smaller than baltimore jack. hes white and has very short hair possibly balding a little or just a receding hairline. hes in his 40's and looks like a sneek. he knows hikers i belive and passes himself off as a volenteer and possibly a member of white blaze. i was sure who i saw and we confronted the person in stelth and decided we had no proof.

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 07:46
one thruhikers pack was completly replaced by one of the outfitters with excepitonal gear. the hiker was joyous in the end. i hope he posts his account of generosity. and i ask for prayers for the theif. praying can move mountains. lets pray one up his arss.

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 07:52
i left thousand of dollars and berb and gear all laying out as allways and couldnt catch one theif to skin. but if i had caught one, i would compose a beating team of, otto, jack, dude, mala, wolf, grey squirrle,gorrila, stumpy, attrol and me. we would probbubly stop beating for meals and pooping only. # one could be done whilst beating. also, if we drank to much while beating , we could puck en-beat.who would your beating team comprise?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2007, 08:01
Glad Matt got a look at this fellow.

Last year we kept several thru's empty or nearly empty packs in our SUV after they had unpacked what they needed to camp after one person's pack was stolen.

While this would be a bit of a pain, those of us with cartop carriers might want to bring them to TD and make them available to thru's camping in our area for storage and lock them up at night. It would be darn-near impossible to carry one out with several people's gear inside and driving in would wake people up.

RockStar
05-22-2007, 08:02
and why shouldnt they be allowed, its thier town and they are the host for the week. when was the last time you went to a party and the host was not allowed to attend. come on man, what kind of logic is that.
but i would like to know why you think the locals shouldnt be allowed?
ha! damn glad your not on the traildays planning board. but then again your not a hiker or a local are you? so probably wont be seein much of you around town or the trail anyway.

Actually if I stayed overnight with someone and they started going in and out of my room then my suitcase adn clothes went missing....I'd be pretty damn suspicious. And second...Im a woman and therefore appreciate hospitality but, don't put anything passed anyone. I didn't say "Welp I guess the whole gosh dern town was in on it. I knew thed rip off the good hikin folk" What I said was "I SEE WHY LOCALS WOULDNT BE ALLOWED IN TENT CITY"

And lastly I may not have logged enough miles to be dubbed LEGS but, I have been on 3 different trails for overnighters. Including 80 miles of the A.T. and I WILL be on it next year and no matter what the outcome of my hike I WILL be at Trail days. And if you would prefer I can rub my ass on the Plaque at Springer first to get your panties in a further wad and hang a sign in front of my hammock saying "Pleas locals and T.D. planning commission don't steal my pack" Im sure to attract more pendejo's who love a good fight.

Some of you people worry me. I know you may have wives and all but,t he level of drama for which you need to THRIVE and post really far exceeds most men I know. And I know lots of f*gs.

However THANK YOU, from the bottom of my heart for telling me I am not a hiker. I appreciate that because it inspired me to take a look at what you might or might not be and I have deduced an ******* with too much time on his hands who obviously ,doesnt spend it wisely,can't READ or he would KNOW I am a female and address me accordingly. Although...maybe being "A HIKER" also means you are an *******. I see a lot of "HIKERS" telling other "non hikers" their mileage doesnt count b/c they blue blaze or that they aren't HIKERS unless they do this or that.


Im gonna go cry now because Im not a "hiker" booo hooo hoooo somebody doesnt like me... b/c I would question them if ever while staying over my belongings they were seen around in the AREA given SPECIFICALLY for ME to sleep in went missing...:rolleyes:

Lilred
05-22-2007, 08:05
It just seems so wrong to think that other hikers would steal them. When they know how important a pack is to a hiker.


Who's says it was another hiker? Theives and con men gather at public outings just for the pickins. I wager it was an outsider, non-hiker. I'd keep a close eye on ebay and craigs list. Locals don't want some stinking hiker pack and a hiker wouldn't steal another's pack, maybe.

RockStar
05-22-2007, 08:12
Who's says it was another hiker? Theives and con men gather at public outings just for the pickins. I wager it was an outsider, non-hiker. I'd keep a close eye on ebay and craigs list. Locals don't want some stinking hiker pack and a hiker wouldn't steal another's pack, maybe.


OH NO lilred! *gasp...you also think it was an "outsider". How rude! You must not be a hiker. :eek: :rolleyes:

dixicritter
05-22-2007, 08:22
Alright now let's settle down with the name calling here, that's uncalled for.

There are bad apples in all walks of life. I heard about problems Sunday before Rock and I left town. It is really sad that folks would target a party like that, but it happens in this messed up world we now live in. The best advice I can give is to do the best possible job of making it hard to get to your gear while you are at Trail Days. Keep the valuable stuff as out of sight as possible, or if you have a friend there with a car see about locking it up. Sad that it has to come to that.

Krewzer
05-22-2007, 08:42
There was a notice on the wall in "the Place" about some homeless people, or person, and gear being stolen. That was on Thursday, so I think the local police already knew there was a problem before Trail Days got going in earnest.

Is it me or does it seem like there's more than the average number of SOB's hanging around the AT this year?

Wanderingson
05-22-2007, 09:01
Here's a picture of the guilty little bastard

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/media/backpack%202.JPG

Dances with Mice
05-22-2007, 09:25
i left thousand of dollars and berb and gear all laying out as allways and couldnt catch one theif to skin. but if i had caught one, i would compose a beating team of, otto, jack, dude, mala, wolf, grey squirrle,gorrila, stumpy, attrol and me. we would probbubly stop beating for meals and pooping only. # one could be done whilst beating. also, if we drank to much while beating , we could puck en-beat.who would your beating team comprise?I'd tie him in a seat between you and MS on a long drive. He'd be begging for a beating.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2007, 09:27
::: dino tail and teeth want to be on the beating team :::

Yahtzee
05-22-2007, 09:34
I believe I have heard Baltimore Jack mention he doesn't think any one year is worse than another or that the Trail isn't getting less safe (sorry Jack if that's not true, my brain is usually a wee liquified when I see ya) but from my experience starting in '97 the Trail culture has slid precipitously. In 2003, almost on a daily basis, my hiking partners and I encountered sketchy situations. So much so we dubbed it "Year of the Psycho". They had a knife pulled on them in the Shennies, we just missed a robbery of hikers in Pearisburg, Miss Janet had money stolen by hikers, assaults by hikers on other hikers, and there was some seriously unwanted "pink blazing" going on. I don't know the reason. Popularity and ease, I guess, attracts a lesser caliber of people. But I have serious concerns, no real fears, that critical mass is going to occur and there is going to be a tragedy on the trail that comes from within the hiking community as opposed to the random acts of violence the trail has seen before.

After hiking from PA to Canada via the AT and LT in '97, I was hooked. Not by the hiking or the mountains but by the people. And that is what brought me out again in '99, '01, '02 and again in '03. But in '03, after hiking from Springer to CT, I quit. The people weren't the same. There was so much entitlement and ignorance on display by hikers in towns and on the trail that the force, the light, the spirit that enabled me to climb mountains was lost.

I don't doubt that many, many hikers this year and in years to come will have amazing experiences just as I and many others have had on the trail, but I wonder how much longer that will last and at what frequency.

I just wish everyone could have as amazing a time on the trail as I did. Hiking the AT completely changed my life, it restored my faith in my fellow man, and truly distilled life down to its pure essence. Friendship and community. Long may it last.

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 09:35
Here's a picture of the guilty little bastard

http://www.aminus.org/blogs/media/backpack%202.JPG
In America, or at least what's left of it, you are supposedly innocent until proven guilty.

spittinpigeon
05-22-2007, 10:04
where in the hell did you get that idea, ya smokin some wacky stuff man. locals aint allowed, get real! thier town, thier party for you, they are the hosts, so what ever gave you the idea they werent allowed. it is an open public gathering advertised nation wide man, who is not allowed?

Why don't you act and spell your age. I was told (forgot who it was, but it was someone with more TD experience than I) about gear theft, and that they figured out it was locals, hence the ban of locals. Happy? No? That's what I thought. Let it go grandpa.

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 10:04
This was my first TD and (correct me if I'm wrong, which obviously I am with what I'm about to say) I was under the impression that locals were not allowed in tent city, but I spotted a few, and one of them had nothing good to say about us. Despite the fact that he was 'cleaning up' with all of our empties.
There are a few in this town that don't like the hikers, then there are a few in this town that don't like the bicyclists, then there are some that hate the motorcycle riders, a few who hate the people that ride horses, and then there are a few who hate anybody and everybody that "ain't from these here parts." But out of all of those you probably will not find a thief. Most likely it is the guy or gal that you danced around the fire with, or you had a drink and maybe even a toke off of the happy roll up with. Could be someone who even looks like a hiker...............

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 10:07
yeah mine was stolen as well. strange. don't know why hikers would want more gear to carry. it wasn't even a pack thats big enough to hike with.
most likely someone who drove in and dressed up like a hiker..............

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 10:11
i left thousand of dollars and berb and gear all laying out as allways and couldnt catch one theif to skin. but if i had caught one, i would compose a beating team of, otto, jack, dude, mala, wolf, grey squirrle,gorrila, stumpy, attrol and me. we would probbubly stop beating for meals and pooping only. # one could be done whilst beating. also, if we drank to much while beating , we could puck en-beat.who would your beating team comprise?
You guys would have had to stop and let me pray for them so they would be able to take the rest of the beating they had coming..............

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 10:12
Glad Matt got a look at this fellow.

Last year we kept several thru's empty or nearly empty packs in our SUV after they had unpacked what they needed to camp after one person's pack was stolen.

While this would be a bit of a pain, those of us with cartop carriers might want to bring them to TD and make them available to thru's camping in our area for storage and lock them up at night. It would be darn-near impossible to carry one out with several people's gear inside and driving in would wake people up.
I think next year I'm going to offer to look after people's packs at my house.....

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 10:20
There was a notice on the wall in "the Place" about some homeless people, or person, and gear being stolen. That was on Thursday, so I think the local police already knew there was a problem before Trail Days got going in earnest.

Is it me or does it seem like there's more than the average number of SOB's hanging around the AT this year?
That sign has been on that wall for some time now, and I can almost guaruntee that most homeless people don't want anything that belongs to someone else. We have a homeless guy that comes in there and uses the shower every now and then and he wouldn't take a dime from you if it was laying right on your table. I know because he stayed in my house this past winter a couple of times and I left money on the counter top and it was still there after he left while I was gone.

I don't know who put that sign up in the Place but its hogwash........

saimyoji
05-22-2007, 10:45
Well, I posted this over a year ago. Maybe someone wants to reconsider this idea.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13437&highlight=lockers

Skyline
05-22-2007, 10:50
I don't recall theft being such a problem when the Tent City was down by the river in the area where the Old Mill is now. When the hikers were booted out of town, it seemed to get worse. The current campground is just too spread out, too remote, and is begging for thieves to infiltrate.

As part of the planning for future Trail Days, assuming the current campground is going to remain, perhaps it would be a great idea to organize shifts of volunteer patrols in advance just like the Hard Core is organized in advance. I would be willing to serve a couple four-hour shifts in a team of at least three. It would be a good volunteer opportunity for those of us who cannot participate in Hard Core due to other commitments.

Re: whether it was hikers or non-hikers who were the culprits, it's all speculation but I'd like to close with this thought. Large groups of hikers (some of the same hikers in fact) camp each October at The Gathering. "Local" non-hikers do not typically infiltrate these camping areas. Does The Gathering have a similar level of thefts?

Gaiter
05-22-2007, 11:00
what about a bike rack and rent out bike locks, put a few of those around tentcity??

rockrat
05-22-2007, 11:21
If you're worried about it consider buying purchasing one of these (http://www.casanovasadventures.com/catalog/travelgear/p807.htm).

Pacific Tortuga
05-22-2007, 11:44
There were so many pack give-a-ways at Trail Days. It be nice to have a

board and try to match up thoses with new (free) packs with those that

got theirs stolen. See if they could work out some kind of deal on the new

or used pack. If one deal could be made and keep the hiker on the Trail it

be worth it, ya think?

D'Artagnan
05-22-2007, 11:45
If you're worried about it consider buying purchasing one of these (http://www.casanovasadventures.com/catalog/travelgear/p807.htm).


Or maybe one of these: http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm

Sorry, couldn't resist. :o

Ewker
05-22-2007, 11:51
Friday and Saturday nights I was hanging out with some friends. We would have people come up and just sit down or start talking to us. The area where they camped was spread out in the woods so it is possible that one of the guys could have been a decoy while his friends looked for what they wanted. It was dark and there were other folks tents and hammock so unless you were looking back at where you camped you wouldn't see anyone taking something from your tent or hammock.

Alligator
05-22-2007, 12:03
There are motion sensor alarms used for laptops as another option. These sound if the item is moved.

Perhaps the TD planning committee might consider something like a locked shipping container. Access could be controlled with a checkout attendant and perhaps funded by a nominal $1 donation. Have the owner sign a sheet of paper and recieve a claim ticket or somesuch. That way there is a signature in case the ticket is lost.

Wanderingson
05-22-2007, 12:35
So do we have a total count of thefts this year? How many in years gone by? Unusual this year or a growing trend?

JUst a wee bit curious seeing how I have not had the pleasure of making it to TD yet.

Local
05-22-2007, 12:38
This sucks. Those of us on the Trail Days committee are highly disturbed that this year's gathering brought in more thieves than usual. We need to do something about this for next year and will be asking you for advice, as well as listing things you have already suggested.

Please know that the police are anxious to apprehend anyone stealing anything, but they need to be informed quickly when something happens. In one case a camper saw someone stealing things but didn't bother to tell the police.

We will discuss a number of strategies for next year. There will probably be a locked and monitored area, as suggested. We need to work out the details and would like your advice.

We are also discussing setting up some "dummy" packs with GPS trackers.

Ways to keep local undesirables out of the campground are being discussed. Please don't flail me for wanting to keep out some locals, because this is a widely-held opinion among those of us involved in helping to organize Trail Days. We might restrict local entry to those on the Trail Days committee. And yes, it is our opinion that most of the theft is by local people, including those coming in from nearby towns knowing that a lot of valuable equipment will be lying around unattended.

As a footnote to this, out of the approximately 2,500 people in the campground, there was only one arrest: a 20-year-old local female.

Another strategy being discussed is setting up a "sting" operation, with one or two persons watching a pack. Not surprisingly, we have several ex-military people and some local NRA members who want to do this.

The theft of hiker equipment is a growing problem at Trail Days. We are increasingly targeted by thieves. Perhaps a few of these are hikers, but we believe most come from nearby. We need your help in finding ways to stop this.

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 12:41
There are motion sensor alarms used for laptops as another option. These sound if the item is moved.

Perhaps the TD planning committee might consider something like a locked shipping container. Access could be controlled with a checkout attendant and perhaps funded by a nominal $1 donation. Have the owner sign a sheet of paper and recieve a claim ticket or somesuch. That way there is a signature in case the ticket is lost.

Thats not a bad idea. Rent a couple of Pods (http://www.pods.com/Default.aspx). Have someone stationed outside all the time. And rent space inside with only the person on duty having access to the container. With renting the space if it is used will pay for itself.

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 12:41
There are motion sensor alarms used for laptops as another option. These sound if the item is moved.

Perhaps the TD planning committee might consider something like a locked shipping container. Access could be controlled with a checkout attendant and perhaps funded by a nominal $1 donation. Have the owner sign a sheet of paper and recieve a claim ticket or somesuch. That way there is a signature in case the ticket is lost.

A person's home is his castle. It should be the same for a hiker leaving his tent set up with the equipment inside on the trail or at TDs or where ever. As this is not the case, what can you do? What are your options?
a) I like Rockrats' idea, but that might be impractical if you want to leave your tent set up and will add weight to your load.
b) carry your gear everywhere or never let your eyes off it. Prolly the best idea.
c) Motion sensor alarms (which everybody seems to ignore these days, maybe different out in the woods)
d) have a sign posted outside your tent...This tent protected by automatic shotgun!
e) try to catch the rotten basstid
I'm sure there are other ideas (put rat poison in your gorp?) so let's hear them.

Local
05-22-2007, 12:49
I don't recall theft being such a problem when the Tent City was down by the river in the area where the Old Mill is now. When the hikers were booted out of town, it seemed to get worse. The current campground is just too spread out, too remote, and is begging for thieves to infiltrate.

As part of the planning for future Trail Days, assuming the current campground is going to remain, perhaps it would be a great idea to organize shifts of volunteer patrols in advance just like the Hard Core is organized in advance. I would be willing to serve a couple four-hour shifts in a team of at least three. It would be a good volunteer opportunity for those of us who cannot participate in Hard Core due to other commitments.

Re: whether it was hikers or non-hikers who were the culprits, it's all speculation but I'd like to close with this thought. Large groups of hikers (some of the same hikers in fact) camp each October at The Gathering. "Local" non-hikers do not typically infiltrate these camping areas. Does The Gathering have a similar level of thefts?


Skyline, I just read this, and your suggestions are good. I like the idea of patrols and will discuss this with the PD. I would be interested in hearing if others think this would work. There would have to be some restrictions, of course... maybe leave the Glock at home.

The campground is indeed spread out, but we have had requests for quiet area and provided them. And there's no way the current crowd would fit into the original location. We would have people camping in about every private yard in town.

attroll
05-22-2007, 12:52
Skyline, I just read this, and your suggestions are good. I like the idea of patrols and will discuss this with the PD. I would be interested in hearing if others think this would work. There would have to be some restrictions, of course... maybe leave the Glock at home.

The campground is indeed spread out, but we have had requests for quiet area and provided them. And there's no way the current crowd would fit into the original location. We would have people camping in about every private yard in town.

I don't think setting up patrols will work unless the person steeling the pack is very stupid. it will be to hard for patrols to cover the entire campground because it is so spread out.

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 13:06
Skyline, I just read this, and your suggestions are good. I like the idea of patrols and will discuss this with the PD. I would be interested in hearing if others think this would work. There would have to be some restrictions, of course... maybe leave the Glock at home.


I don't think setting up patrols will work unless the person steeling the pack is very stupid. it will be to hard for patrols to cover the entire campground because it is so spread out.

I have to agree using the PD for roving patrols is not a viable option. They can't be every where all the time. Also I don't feel it would be cost effective as well due to the fact that they would have to put more officers on duty and also have to pay the assosiated overtime costs.

In my opinion the most cost effective option would be to rent a some storage containers and post volunteers outside said containers for personal property storage. And rent space to users.

Creek Dancer
05-22-2007, 13:15
Posting security measures, such as roving patrols, might work to deter the thieves.

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 13:32
There was a notice on the wall in "the Place" about some homeless people, or person, and gear being stolen. That was on Thursday, so I think the local police already knew there was a problem before Trail Days got going in earnest.

The sign has been there awhile, including the added snide remarks by folks who get their drawers awad.

Alligator
05-22-2007, 13:33
A couple of dummy packs with those exploding dye packs (banks) in them could be fun. Something smelly that doesn't wash off:clap.

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 13:34
In America, or at least what's left of it, you are supposedly innocent until proven guilty.

Uh, dude, it was a joke. Did you see the pic?

LEGS
05-22-2007, 13:45
Sounds as good as anything else. Legs, you gonna stand up for the meth-freaks? They might possibly be locals. I also like the idea they could be hikers. It's a shame these people lost their backpacks. I didn't see that coming.

WASNT TALKING ABOUT THE STOLEN PACKS MAN, SORRY THAT HAPPENED, BUT TO ASSUME THAT LOCALS CANT ATTEND THIER OWN PARTY IS WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING. METH FREAKS WERE PROBABLY TO WASTED TO EVEN KNOW WHAT A PACK WAS , I'VE HAD MY TENT STOLEN THERE A FEW TIMES AND OTHER THINGS OVER THE YEARS, SOMETIMES IT WAS HIKERS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE FROM ABINGDON, AND OTHERS I'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM TO STEAL MINE AND OTHER PEOPLES THINGS. I'LL TAKE THE SIDE OF THE TOWN ANYDAY OVER ANY DAMN METH FREAKS, LOCAL PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO COME TO THIER OWN PARTY, IS ALL I'M SAYIN MAN. PEACE!

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 13:49
Sorry, couldn't resist. :o

And then, when you came back to your tent all plasterated and saw your pack missing, you could shoot the first suspicious-looking character that came into view.

Sounds like a plan. :D

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 13:52
The theft of hiker equipment is a growing problem at Trail Days. We are increasingly targeted by thieves. Perhaps a few of these are hikers, but we believe most come from nearby. We need your help in finding ways to stop this.

Local, you're a great guy. I'm sorry that this problem added to your headaches. We appreciate all that you have done and will continue to do. Keep the faith, bro.

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 13:57
Uh, dude, it was a joke. Did you see the pic?

Yes, it was a funny pic. I guess I should have put the green $hi+-eating grin by my post.:D

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 14:00
WASNT TALKING ABOUT THE STOLEN PACKS MAN, SORRY THAT HAPPENED, BUT TO ASSUME THAT LOCALS CANT ATTEND THIER OWN PARTY IS WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING. METH FREAKS WERE PROBABLY TO WASTED TO EVEN KNOW WHAT A PACK WAS , I'VE HAD MY TENT STOLEN THERE A FEW TIMES AND OTHER THINGS OVER THE YEARS, SOMETIMES IT WAS HIKERS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE FROM ABINGDON, AND OTHERS I'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM TO STEAL MINE AND OTHER PEOPLES THINGS. I'LL TAKE THE SIDE OF THE TOWN ANYDAY OVER ANY DAMN METH FREAKS, LOCAL PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO COME TO THIER OWN PARTY, IS ALL I'M SAYIN MAN. PEACE!

We're cool...Peace and love!!:sun

Smudge
05-22-2007, 14:08
WASNT TALKING ABOUT THE STOLEN PACKS MAN, SORRY THAT HAPPENED, BUT TO ASSUME THAT LOCALS CANT ATTEND THIER OWN PARTY IS WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING. METH FREAKS WERE PROBABLY TO WASTED TO EVEN KNOW WHAT A PACK WAS , I'VE HAD MY TENT STOLEN THERE A FEW TIMES AND OTHER THINGS OVER THE YEARS, SOMETIMES IT WAS HIKERS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE FROM ABINGDON, AND OTHERS I'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM TO STEAL MINE AND OTHER PEOPLES THINGS. I'LL TAKE THE SIDE OF THE TOWN ANYDAY OVER ANY DAMN METH FREAKS, LOCAL PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO COME TO THIER OWN PARTY, IS ALL I'M SAYIN MAN. PEACE!

Whew!, you're a crotchity old fart aren't ya? A real ambassador to the hiking community...

LEGS
05-22-2007, 14:23
Actually if I stayed overnight with someone and they started going in and out of my room then my suitcase adn clothes went missing....I'd be pretty damn suspicious. And second...Im a woman and therefore appreciate hospitality but, don't put anything passed anyone. I didn't say "Welp I guess the whole gosh dern town was in on it. I knew thed rip off the good hikin folk" What I said was "I SEE WHY LOCALS WOULDNT BE ALLOWED IN TENT CITY"

And lastly I may not have logged enough miles to be dubbed LEGS but, I have been on 3 different trails for overnighters. Including 80 miles of the A.T. and I WILL be on it next year and no matter what the outcome of my hike I WILL be at Trail days. And if you would prefer I can rub my ass on the Plaque at Springer first to get your panties in a further wad and hang a sign in front of my hammock saying "Pleas locals and T.D. planning commission don't steal my pack" Im sure to attract more pendejo's who love a good fight.

Some of you people worry me. I know you may have wives and all but,t he level of drama for which you need to THRIVE and post really far exceeds most men I know. And I know lots of f*gs.

However THANK YOU, from the bottom of my heart for telling me I am not a hiker. I appreciate that because it inspired me to take a look at what you might or might not be and I have deduced an ******* with too much time on his hands who obviously ,doesnt spend it wisely,can't READ or he would KNOW I am a female and address me accordingly. Although...maybe being "A HIKER" also means you are an *******. I see a lot of "HIKERS" telling other "non hikers" their mileage doesnt count b/c they blue blaze or that they aren't HIKERS unless they do this or that.


Im gonna go cry now because Im not a "hiker" booo hooo hoooo somebody doesnt like me... b/c I would question them if ever while staying over my belongings they were seen around in the AREA given SPECIFICALLY for ME to sleep in went missing...:rolleyes:

ROCKSTAR, YOU HAVE MAIL! TAKE CARE GIRL! AND FOR YOU PEEPS OUT THERE WANTING TO KNOW WHAT HER MAIL IS ABOUT, IT IS AND APOLOGY FOR MY RANT, AND I DONT HAVE A HANGOVER, I DRINK THE GOOD STUFF!!! .

LEGS
05-22-2007, 14:27
Whew!, you're a crotchity old fart aren't ya? A real ambassador to the hiking community...


TRY "DISSIN" DAMASCUS, AND I CAN GET REAL CROTCHTY! JUST THE WAY IT IS.

CaseyB
05-22-2007, 14:30
Someone a few posts back mentioned having a shipping container as a pack lock-up area. There would probably be some logistical headaches (people losing their claim checks, hours of operation) but if folks are interested I can donate the use of a container for the weekend.
As for locals not being allowed? Where do you draw the line? Not all Trail Days guests are current/ former/ hopeful hikers. A lot of folks just come to town to party. Does this make someone from Elizibethton a less sketchy campground guest than me? Besides, I thought hikers looked forward to mingling with townies and vice-versa. Maybe I'm takin this too hard but suggesting that locals be kept out of the campground festivities just sounds elitist; like you guys are up there making banjo jokes about us:D

Smudge
05-22-2007, 14:35
No worries. Kinda like my Dad only a little younger..:D

Chache
05-22-2007, 15:43
Or maybe one of these: http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm

Sorry, couldn't resist. :o
I always carry one of these
http://www.securitysafeusa.com/c-22-depository-safes.aspx

sunshine06
05-22-2007, 15:57
I haven't read through everyone's responses yet. I will when I have more time. I just wanted to say that my camera (canon digital rebel XT) got stolen from our campsite, as well as a friends guitar. It sounds to me like more than one person was out thieving, possilby a team. It also seems like they would have difnitily needed a car in tent city to get all this crap out.

-sunshine

Skyline
05-22-2007, 16:08
I have to agree using the PD for roving patrols is not a viable option. They can't be every where all the time. Also I don't feel it would be cost effective as well due to the fact that they would have to put more officers on duty and also have to pay the assosiated overtime costs.

In my opinion the most cost effective option would be to rent a some storage containers and post volunteers outside said containers for personal property storage. And rent space to users.

Not sure how this became a police patrol idea. I suggested a volunteer patrol idea, though attroll has a valid point that it would be hard to cover the entire 60 acres with one small patrol per shift. Might take more than one team per shift.

It might be necessary, given the level of thievery, to reduce the amount of land used for camping--to compress it to a more manageable and easier-to-patrol footprint. Fence off the area that is intended for camping (there can still be several distinct "neighborhoods" within this fenced-off area) with the balance of the land as kind of a buffer between the camping area and the rest of the world. If things don't improve it might be necessary to provide passes to those who belong in the camping area (campers, and their accompanied/invited guests which could certainly include friendly locals) and refuse admittance to anyone else.

leeki pole
05-22-2007, 16:10
Put your tents in a circle. Put the packs in the middle. Leave a sentry to watch said packs and tents. No worries! Just make sure the sentry has a coooler! :)

warren doyle
05-22-2007, 16:10
(I base my thoughts/feelings on my involvement in, and observation of, every Trail Days since 1988.)

Damascus Trail Days will eventually implode. I'm surprised it has lasted this long. It definitely is going in a different direction then its founders intended it to be in 1987.

Many non-partier hikers avoid TD now with stories of theft, rampant alcohol use, profanity, drugs and nudity in the toxic-waste, fenced-in campground; nudity and profanity in the talent show; coporate logos everywhere; and, a great emphasis on equipment. In addition, the parade has transformed into a glorification of the 'gun' and warfare for hikers and non-hikers alike.

It will be sooner, rather than later, that a business will have their plate glass broken by a water balloon thrown with enough velocity; an innocent bystander, perhaps a small child, will incur an eye injury by a water balloon thrown by a hiker; or, there will be a brawl between drunk hikers or drunk hikers and drunk locals. Or, a fundamentalist church will videotape the hedonistic activities at the drumming circle (so much for the Endangered Services Campaign).

The Damascus Trail Days Committee does have a challenge on their hands in the areas of liability and public image. I don't envy them at all.

I will continue to give programs at TD to help support what the 1987 founders wanted it to be (based on my personal conversations with Dan Bruce and the late Charles Trivett) and also to give my thanks to the people of Damascus.

Skyline #38 - There haven't been any thefts (except for Walkin' Jim's guitar at the college) at the Pipestem Gathering between 1982 and 2004 simply because the event did not encourage a 'party' atmosphere. The ALDHA Gathering (1982) distanced itself from the younger Trail Days (1987) since the mid-90's. Of course, that might change now with Billville members on the ALDHA Board of Directors.

Yahtzee #29 - Your post was right on. However, there already has been a tragedy in the hiker community. I refer to the death of a intoxicated northbounder, who was attending the 2005 Billville Hiker Feed in Duncannon, by a train.
In my 35 year relationship with the trail, I know of no other 'organization' that has condoned, encouraged, and/or glorified the consumption of alcohol more than Billville.
(My opinion on this last item will not change until I observe a change within this 'organization'.)

Skyline
05-22-2007, 16:16
Skyline, I just read this, and your suggestions are good. I like the idea of patrols and will discuss this with the PD. I would be interested in hearing if others think this would work. There would have to be some restrictions, of course... maybe leave the Glock at home.

The campground is indeed spread out, but we have had requests for quiet area and provided them. And there's no way the current crowd would fit into the original location. We would have people camping in about every private yard in town.

Definitely, the patrols would not have Glocks. But they should have the ability to instantly communicate with police nearby (walkie talkies, cell phones, pagers?)

And as much as I may have voiced an opinion when it happened, I do understand why the Tent City could no longer be accommodated in town. You all do a fantastic job putting on an event that brings in about 25 times the town's population.

Jobie
05-22-2007, 16:20
I was going to keep my mouth shut about my TD experience this year, but after reading through the thread, I wont. We had the misfortune of camping next to a group of non hikers from Tennessee. I couldnt figure out what they were doing there- other than partying literally all night, breaking bottles, yelling, fighting and bad mouthing every hiker that came by. There were about 12 of them. We were camped in the woods to the far right on the riverbank, behind the bingo hall. We had nothing stolen and did leave our stuff out, but I was suspicious of their presence.

This is my third TD and I will continue to go back. I know from experience that not much sleep is to be had at TD's, but this group was definitely too much.

I do question why anyone who is not a hiker or has no affiliation with the AT and has that much disdain for the other people there would come to Trail Days?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-22-2007, 16:25
Warren, could you give us Johnny/Janie-come-latelies an idea of what the orginal founders of TD had in mind?

Ewker
05-22-2007, 16:47
Warren, could you give us Johnny/Janie-come-latelies an idea of what the orginal founders of TD had in mind?

I hope it isn't Contra dancing :eek: :p

spittinpigeon
05-22-2007, 17:30
As a footnote to this, out of the approximately 2,500 people in the campground, there was only one arrest: a 20-year-old local female.


There were two local girls of that age, very intoxicated in tent city. They had no clue where the bathroom was and stumbled through the mine field behind the fire hall to go pee. I'm sure one of them is the arrested one.

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 17:48
only one suggestion my weary and stolen from peeps. no one leaves without showing id and a pass. the pass has your pack color and make on it. anyone leaving with a pack without a packpass dies. anyone leaving with a pack and a packpass and no or wrong id, dies. anyone messing with leggs anymore,....same. leggs cares man. let him care. its good folks care. the packpass would have space to list all of your gear if you like. ditto paper and a copy left at the cops table insure thief captures galore. no way out with gear unless they put it in a bigger pack. and we will have our own hiker checkers to show the cops a load that looks stuffed.done. end of problem. no more trail days bashing please. its a wonderful thing. shame on you warren.

Jimmers
05-22-2007, 17:50
Yahtzee #29 - Your post was right on. However, there already has been a tragedy in the hiker community. I refer to the death of a intoxicated northbounder, who was attending the 2005 Billville Hiker Feed in Duncannon, by a train.
In my 35 year relationship with the trail, I know of no other 'organization' that has condoned, encouraged, and/or glorified the consumption of alcohol more than Billville.
(My opinion on this last item will not change until I observe a change within this 'organization'.)

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. But the facts of the matter are that the hiker who died was at the Doyle Hotel, left at closing time after drinking, and died on the train tracks at 3:10AM. No one from Billville provided liquor at the feed.

Yes it was a tragedy, but for you to suggest it was somehow Billville's fault is merely an opinion formed from your anti-Billville bias. If you weren't there, how can you know?

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 18:02
a couple hiker volenteer border guards spotting runners to the cops with radios and wala! add a set of rubber stamps with major brandnames and a few like, other and homemade, and poof! instant counterfiet packpass foiling! throw in a totaly volenteer force with its own radios all linked to richard ,( local), and you dont streatch the real officers thin when they are so sorely needed to remaine thick. these are the solutions. do we have the care to do this or will you sup with warren. all those with this idea, stand up now and donate. i offer to forgo all of the festivitys to lead the fight if needed. im good at eating pancakes off the ground and getting sick or i double as a potty night watchman.

Local
05-22-2007, 18:04
I was going to keep my mouth shut about my TD experience this year, but after reading through the thread, I wont. We had the misfortune of camping next to a group of non hikers from Tennessee. I couldnt figure out what they were doing there- other than partying literally all night, breaking bottles, yelling, fighting and bad mouthing every hiker that came by. There were about 12 of them. We were camped in the woods to the far right on the riverbank, behind the bingo hall. We had nothing stolen and did leave our stuff out, but I was suspicious of their presence. (Part of message deleted.)

Jobie, thanks for this information, and I will take this opportunity to encourage everyone who is in a situation like this to contact the police at the gate as soon as they can. The police are anxious to preserve order, and either calming down or ejecting a bunch of drunks is high on their list. If the police had heard of this early, your Trail Days experience would have been a lot more calm. We hope next year you don't have that experience, but if you do, please contact law enforcement as soon as possible.

Nest
05-22-2007, 18:08
If you're worried about it consider buying purchasing one of these (http://www.casanovasadventures.com/catalog/travelgear/p807.htm).


I know these are heavy, and wouldn't get enough use to justify carrying it for an entire thru, but how about just for TD. Would it be secure enough? I'm thinking of having it shipped to me in Damascus to use while I am there, and just ship it home when I am done. Since I will be in a hammock I will have a tree close by. Are these things really secure enough to leave my pack alone while I am attending the events? I know bolt cutters will cut right through, but if that's what is needed to get my pack it will be passed over for the one that is just in a tent or in the open.

Local
05-22-2007, 18:10
Someone a few posts back mentioned having a shipping container as a pack lock-up area. There would probably be some logistical headaches (people losing their claim checks, hours of operation) but if folks are interested I can donate the use of a container for the weekend. (snipped)

CaseyB, your offer (both on this thread and through a personal note) is amazing and welcomed. I can't speak for the Trail Days committee, but assure you we will do everything we can to honor your good offer. I'll let you know when our next meeting is, and maybe you can attend.

Assuming this offer is accepted (and several of us will do everything we can to insure that), how should the monitoring of this storage unit be organized? Hiker volunteers approved by two or three other hikers known to us? A mixture of hiker and local volunteers? Other? And should we have a ticket system? You can only remove the items identified on the ticket you carry, and which we have a copy of? All ideas are welcome.

mweinstone
05-22-2007, 18:11
a couple hiker volenteer border guards spotting runners to the cops with radios and wala! add a set of rubber stamps with major brandnames and a few like, other and homemade, and poof! instant counterfiet packpass foiling! throw in a totaly volenteer force with its own radios all linked to richard ,( local), and you dont streatch the real officers thin when they are so sorely needed to remaine thick. these are the solutions. do we have the care to do this or will you sup with warren. all those with this idea, stand up now and donate. i offer to forgo all of the festivitys to lead the fight if needed. im good at eating pancakes off the ground and getting sick or i double as a potty night watchman.

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 18:29
The theft of hiker equipment is a growing problem at Trail Days. We are increasingly targeted by thieves. Perhaps a few of these are hikers, but we believe most come from nearby. We need your help in finding ways to stop this.
I'm game for helping to getting this matter resolved..........

Crazy Larry #1
05-22-2007, 18:31
I don't think setting up patrols will work unless the person steeling the pack is very stupid. it will be to hard for patrols to cover the entire campground because it is so spread out.
Set up people with Binoculars to scope assigned areas during the day and someone to patrol desgnated area at night............

NICKTHEGREEK
05-22-2007, 18:39
a couple hiker volenteer border guards spotting runners to the cops with radios and wala! add a set of rubber stamps with major brandnames and a few like, other and homemade, and poof! instant counterfiet packpass foiling! throw in a totaly volenteer force with its own radios all linked to richard ,( local), and you dont streatch the real officers thin when they are so sorely needed to remaine thick. these are the solutions. do we have the care to do this or will you sup with warren. all those with this idea, stand up now and donate. i offer to forgo all of the festivitys to lead the fight if needed. im good at eating pancakes off the ground and getting sick or i double as a potty night watchman.


Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help

spittinpigeon
05-22-2007, 18:46
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help

Hehe, you'll have to go through the initiation ceremony. Unfortunately, we don't have one scheduled for some time, sit tight and someone will be with you shortly.

Chache
05-22-2007, 18:49
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help
Like I said. He needs to stop at two tokes

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 19:09
CaseyB, your offer (both on this thread and through a personal note) is amazing and welcomed. I can't speak for the Trail Days committee, but assure you we will do everything we can to honor your good offer. I'll let you know when our next meeting is, and maybe you can attend.

Assuming this offer is accepted (and several of us will do everything we can to insure that), how should the monitoring of this storage unit be organized? Hiker volunteers approved by two or three other hikers known to us? A mixture of hiker and local volunteers? Other? And should we have a ticket system? You can only remove the items identified on the ticket you carry, and which we have a copy of? All ideas are welcome.

I would like to chime in on this as I think this is a good idea. If the donated container is not enough you could rent 1 or 2. Even look into a 48' or 53' trailer. As for monitoring the storage get enough trustworthy volunteers to monitor the trailers or storage units on a 24 hour basis. Have them work in shifts. For identifying the item stored there when someone presents their gear and ID a small cardstock form is filled out with pertinate information i.e. Name, Address, phone number and anything else deemed appropriate. Also each card needs to be individually numbered. One part of the card is given to the individual and one part is affixed to the stored item. Card must be presented to retrieve the item and numbers matched, ID checked

blindeye
05-22-2007, 19:23
Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jimmers
05-22-2007, 19:24
I would like to chime in on this as I think this is a good idea. If the donated container is not enough you could rent 1 or 2. Even look into a 48' or 53' trailer. As for monitoring the storage get enough trustworthy volunteers to monitor the trailers or storage units on a 24 hour basis. Have them work in shifts. For identifying the item stored there when someone presents their gear and ID a small cardstock form is filled out with pertinate information i.e. Name, Address, phone number and anything else deemed appropriate. Also each card needs to be individually numbered. One part of the card is given to the individual and one part is affixed to the stored item. Card must be presented to retrieve the item and numbers matched, ID checked

Using a card system would be a good idea, possibly the only workable one with so many packs floating around. Of course volunteers would need to be onhand for a large portion of the day in case someone needed to get to their pack for some reason. I doubt it would be too hard to get enough volunteers for such a system.

dixicritter
05-22-2007, 19:25
I hate to be the one to point this out, but the logistical nightmare of storage containers would scare the heebeejeebees outta me. Are we forgetting that we're talking about storing people's gear here? Anyone want to venture a guess how many times a day someone would need to get to their pack for one reason or another? Now who is going to be responsible for going into the storage container each time a hiker wants access to their gear?

Just some things to think about outside of the security issues. I do agree there needs to be some sort of measures put into place to help out with securing gear, but I'm not sure mass storage is the answer.

Jimmers
05-22-2007, 19:27
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help

Know what's really scary? After reading several hundred of his posts you sort of kind of begin to understand what he's saying. In a very genera, confused l way. :D

Jimmers
05-22-2007, 19:31
I hate to be the one to point this out, but the logistical nightmare of storage containers would scare the heebeejeebees outta me.

That's a very good point. An awfull lot of forethought and effort would need to go into this so that it doesn't start to look like the airport baggage claim at O'Hare during Christmas. Just think of the surge of claimed packs on Sunday alone.

Just Jeff
05-22-2007, 19:32
I hate to be the one to point this out, but the logistical nightmare of storage containers would scare the heebeejeebees outta me. Are we forgetting that we're talking about storing people's gear here? Anyone want to venture a guess how many times a day someone would need to get to their pack for one reason or another? Now who is going to be responsible for going into the storage container each time a hiker wants access to their gear?

Just some things to think about outside of the security issues. I do agree there needs to be some sort of measures put into place to help out with securing gear, but I'm not sure mass storage is the answer.

Not to mention the liability of accepting responsibility for that much gear. Have to have everyone sign a waiver that no one is financially liable for anything that happens to their gear.

Dances with Mice
05-22-2007, 19:46
I DONT HAVE A HANGOVER, I DRINK THE GOOD STUFF!!! .That must be a recent development.

Kudos for doing the right thing.

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 20:24
TRY "DISSIN" DAMASCUS, AND I CAN GET REAL CROTCHTY! JUST THE WAY IT IS.

Has anyone ever told you that all caps means "shouting" in online communications? Maybe people are reacting more strongly because they think that is your intent.

P.S. For the record, Damascus is one of my favorite little towns in the world, not just as a trail town. :)

Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 20:25
I always carry one of these
http://www.securitysafeusa.com/c-22-depository-safes.aspx

Do they have an ultralite version of that? Maybe Sil-Armor? :)

Programbo
05-22-2007, 20:33
I remember when the idea of backpacking was to get AWAY from large groups of people :p ..But seriously (or maybe that was) I`m sorry for all the nice people who had their gear stolen...It might be wise for others to mark their packs with some sort of ID number (in a place no one would ever look) in case it`s stolen and you by some freak chance end up in the same shelter with it again someday

Crafty
05-22-2007, 21:12
I was thinking of this issue on Saturday night, as I returned from a full day of frollicking around town, to my tent...to change clothes, grab a drink, etc., etc. It was getting dark and there were a couple of bicycle cops nearby, checking out a rather disorderly campfire crowd. I felt really insecure rumminging through my own tent, thinking that I looked a little suspicious. How would they know if it was my tent, or if I was rummaging through someone else's? There's really no way to know. At some point we just have to trust our fellow human beings, I guess, which is part of what Trail Days is all about, right?

The storage container thing sounds reasonable to me, though. They had something similar at Merlefest to store instruments and gear that you didn't want to leave laying around. Restricting the campground to people that are actually camping there is a no-brainer, too, I would think. Overall, my first Trail Days was an awesome experience and I hope a few bad apples don't ruin it. Cheers.

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 21:17
I hate to be the one to point this out, but the logistical nightmare of storage containers would scare the heebeejeebees outta me. Are we forgetting that we're talking about storing people's gear here? Anyone want to venture a guess how many times a day someone would need to get to their pack for one reason or another? Now who is going to be responsible for going into the storage container each time a hiker wants access to their gear?

Just some things to think about outside of the security issues. I do agree there needs to be some sort of measures put into place to help out with securing gear, but I'm not sure mass storage is the answer.


That's a very good point. An awfull lot of forethought and effort would need to go into this so that it doesn't start to look like the airport baggage claim at O'Hare during Christmas. Just think of the surge of claimed packs on Sunday alone.


Not to mention the liability of accepting responsibility for that much gear. Have to have everyone sign a waiver that no one is financially liable for anything that happens to their gear.

I agree this is not the perfect solution. It is one idea to help resolve the theft issue. In a perfect world we would not have to even entertain any of the ideas surrounding the issue. But we do not live in a perfect world, far from it. If the Trail Days committee does decide to look into this as an option they will have their hands full working through all the issues surrounding it. I do not envy them in the least. As for a waiver I feel that is one part that would be needed and can be included in the card I mentioned and signed by the individual during their item check in. And yes I know it can and probably will be a nightmare on Sunday. As I said this is one idea and I am sure the committee will look at all the options and decide on the one they feel best suits their situation.

spittinpigeon
05-22-2007, 21:38
If there were some kind of system INSIDE the trailer also, a series of hooks to hang packs on that were all in numerical order, that would make storage and retrieval fast and easy.

Lone Wolf
05-22-2007, 21:44
to say that "locals" or non-hikers are responsible for stealing packs and gear is BS. this was my 17th trail Days and i've lived in Damascus 6 years now. thieving has been going on since Trail Days started. i've never been confronted by a "local" trying to sell stolen gear. there's a certain element in the "hiker community" that are just low-life pathetic f cks who are on the trail to party and f ck other hikers over. i know what i'm talking about. i see them constantly. i agree with warren. Trail Days days are numbered.

Gray Blazer
05-22-2007, 21:46
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help

Do you read it all? :D sorry , matt. Nick, Matt is on our side.;)

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 21:58
I agree with LW, to assume that it was locals that are doing the stealing is just plain ridiculous. I'm not saying that it could not be locals but to just jump to that conclusion with out definitive proof is just wrong.

Any time you have a large number of people congregating together you are going to draw a number of individuals for nefarious purposes. I know wrong but it is just the way things are. There is no way to stop it all together but it can be minimized.

As for Trail Days days being numbered I do have to agree to a point. If someone does not get a handle on the bad element then the sponsors will back out due to not wanting their names associated with this type of behavior. In my opinion one thing that can be done is for the PD to come down harder on the alcohol issue. More than a few complaints I have read and heard are alcohol related. And yes I do myself drink but not to excess.

LEGS
05-22-2007, 21:59
Do you read it all? :D sorry , matt. Nick, Matt is on our side.;)

DAMN RIGHT HE IS!

LEGS
05-22-2007, 22:06
Has anyone ever told you that all caps means "shouting" in online communications? Maybe people are reacting more strongly because they think that is your intent.

P.S. For the record, Damascus is one of my favorite little towns in the world, not just as a trail town. :)

YES THEY HAVE, EVEN BALTIMORE JACK HAS HAD HIS SAY ABOUT IT, BUT THEY ALL KNOW I'M JUST LAZY AND JUST LEAVE IT ON CAPS, BESIDES MY OLD EYES DONT SEE WHAT I'M SAYIN" IF THE TYPE STAYS SMALL FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, AND I'M TO LAZY TO GO GET MY READERS FROM THE TV ROOM. PEACE MAN. WE AGREE ABOUT DAMASCUS ANYWAY. HAHAAHA FINE TOWN AND TOWNSPEOPLE THERE FOR WSURE. AND I'M PROUD TO HAVE THEM COME TO TENT CITY , ANYTIME THEY WANT. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THIER PARTY, THEY ARE THE HOST, SO LET THEM COME ON AND FEEL WELCOME. THEY DONT GET MUCH THANKS ANYWAY, GOTTA LOVE EM! LATER MAN, KEEP ON GETTIN IT. HIKE SAFE!

LEGS
05-22-2007, 22:12
to say that "locals" or non-hikers are responsible for stealing packs and gear is BS. this was my 17th trail Days and i've lived in Damascus 6 years now. thieving has been going on since Trail Days started. i've never been confronted by a "local" trying to sell stolen gear. there's a certain element in the "hiker community" that are just low-life pathetic f cks who are on the trail to party and f ck other hikers over. i know what i'm talking about. i see them constantly. i agree with warren. Trail Days days are numbered.

AMEN ! I'M AFRAID ITS SO, BUT I'LL BET THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME SORT OF CELEBRATION ABOUT THE TRAIL, AND IT WILL OCCUR IN MAY, AND WILL BE HELD IN DAMASCUS. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Lone Wolf
05-22-2007, 22:14
AMEN ! I'M AFRAID ITS SO, BUT I'LL BET THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME SORT OF CELEBRATION ABOUT THE TRAIL, AND IT WILL OCCUR IN MAY, AND WILL BE HELD IN DAMASCUS. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

hippity hop hopping along

Heater
05-22-2007, 22:17
MY OLD EYES DONT SEE WHAT I'M SAYIN" IF THE TYPE STAYS SMALL FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, AND I'M TO LAZY TO GO GET MY READERS FROM THE TV ROOM. PEACE MAN.

Try keying in Cntrl and +

Gaiter
05-22-2007, 22:21
If there was to be a trailer storage thingamabob, i would say do a system like Leki's service center, the bag gets tagged, the hiker gets a copy, bag gets hung depending on its tag, all items must be in/secured to the pack, do a one time fee $5 for example, and the hikers can bring their copy and get their pack in and out as needed, only the volunteers running it can go in the trailer/storage device. do a final call at the end of the night, kinda like a bar.
if another security step is needed add in a polaroid or quick signature
kiss it = Keep it Simple & Sweet

has there been a count of how many packs were actually stolen?

Rainbow_Brite
05-22-2007, 22:31
Wow. I had no idea my thread would spark so much conversation. I hope that this discussion can lead to reducing the amount of stuff stolen in the future. =)

Local
05-22-2007, 22:47
(snipped) has there been a count of how many packs were actually stolen?

The Damascus PD as of yesterday a.m. had only two reports of stolen packs. But I have spoken to five people (or their friends) who have had their packs stolen. None have been found. One daypack which fell off a car was picked up by a hiker (thanks, Terry) and turned in.

Local
05-22-2007, 22:52
I agree with LW, to assume that it was locals that are doing the stealing is just plain ridiculous. I'm not saying that it could not be locals but to just jump to that conclusion with out definitive proof is just wrong. (snipped)


Three out of four arrests were of local people. The single trashed area in the campsite was done by local drunks (eyewitness report). People from the immediate surrounding area are increasingly drawn to Trail Days because of the availability of beer for teenagers, and the availability of gear lying around unprotected. No, this is not scientifically definitive, but no one on the local police force thinks that hikers are doing most of the stealing.

Skyline
05-22-2007, 22:53
to say that "locals" or non-hikers are responsible for stealing packs and gear is BS. this was my 17th trail Days and i've lived in Damascus 6 years now. thieving has been going on since Trail Days started. i've never been confronted by a "local" trying to sell stolen gear. there's a certain element in the "hiker community" that are just low-life pathetic f cks who are on the trail to party and f ck other hikers over. i know what i'm talking about. i see them constantly. i agree with warren. Trail Days days are numbered.

The other major assembly of hikers each year is ALDHA's Gathering, and there are hundreds who camp in a designated area--not that different from Tent City at Trail Days. Some of ALDHA's attendees are the same people who also camp at Trail Days.

The difference between Trail Days' camping and The Gathering's camping is that in Damascus locals and non-hikers (not just from Damascus, but from perhaps a 75 or 100 mile radius) interact with the camping hikers or at least "visit" the camping area. At The Gathering there are few if any local/non-hiker counterparts hanging out in the camping area.

The Gathering does not have the theft problems that Trail Days does.

Conclusion? IMHO part of the problem, probably the majority, is due to locals and non-hikers. Yes, there are low-life hikers and a few of them may also be involved, but how do you explain the difference between Trail Days and The Gathering?

ShakeyLeggs
05-22-2007, 23:05
Three out of four arrests were of local people. The single trashed area in the campsite was done by local drunks (eyewitness report). People from the immediate surrounding area are increasingly drawn to Trail Days because of the availability of beer for teenagers, and the availability of gear lying around unprotected. No, this is not scientifically definitive, but no one on the local police force thinks that hikers are doing most of the stealing.

Thanks for the info Local. As I stated more than a few things I have read and heard are alcohol related. One solution that I am sure I will get flamed for it to make Damascus a dry town for the duration af TD. No public consumption period, and have the PD come down even harder on alcohol related problems.


The other major assembly of hikers each year is ALDHA's Gathering, and there are hundreds who camp in a designated area--not that different from Tent City at Trail Days. Some of ALDHA's attendees are the same people who also camp at Trail Days.

The difference between Trail Days' camping and The Gathering's camping is that in Damascus locals and non-hikers (not just from Damascus, but from perhaps a 75 or 100 mile radius) interact with the camping hikers or at least "visit" the camping area. At The Gathering there are few if any local/non-hiker counterparts hanging out in the camping area.

The Gathering does not have the theft problems that Trail Days does.

Conclusion? IMHO part of the problem, probably the majority, is due to locals and non-hikers. Yes, there are low-life hikers and a few of them may also be involved, but how do you explain the difference between Trail Days and The Gathering?

One thing about the Gathering that Trails Days do not have in common is location. Everyone know when and where TD's is each year it never moves. On the other hand the Gathering moves from year to year. Yes it is announced in advance but the bad element is out for the quick and easy they do not want to travel. Thus keeping the majority of the lowlifes at bay.

cutman11
05-22-2007, 23:09
I skipped ahead after post # 91, but if the storage trailer idea is to be used, one simple suggestion would be to get large sacs with drawstrings (like the large sac that came with my WM sleeping bag to store it in when not in its stuff sac), number the bags, then the "renter" puts his stuff in the numbered bag, it is stored on a hook in the trailer, and he gives his name and the bag number to the volunteer who records it on a sheet. When he comes back for his stuff, the volunteer gets his name off his ID and the renter tells him the number of the sac, the volunteer goes into the trailer and gets the numbered sac off its hook, hands it over. The renter returns the empty sac for another user. The sacs could be stored in numbered order inside the trailer for ease of location, and the list of renting names could be kept on the list by the sac number.

Local
05-22-2007, 23:09
(I base my thoughts/feelings on my involvement in, and observation of, every Trail Days since 1988.)

Damascus Trail Days will eventually implode. I'm surprised it has lasted this long. It definitely is going in a different direction then its founders intended it to be in 1987. (snipped)

Many of us share the feeling that the commercialism, carnivals, and other irrelevant stuff are getting away from the original intent of Trail Days. We continue to ask hikers, both in residence here and in other areas, to participate in the planning of Trail Days.

(Warren, as you know, Banner Elk is 43 miles from Damascus, a little less than an hour if the roads are clear.)

We meet this Thursday, May 24th, 7 p.m. at Town Hall. Future meetings will be announced in this thread.

We particularly would like to hear from the Chicken Littles here ("The sky is falling! The sky is falling!") about how we can improve Trail Days, and specifically how we can make it more like the original planners envisioned.

It seems that two separate festivals are emerging, one at the campground for the hikers, the other in Town Park for the tourists and vendors. I may be wrong.

The Trail Days committee needs more expertise and advice, and fewer gloom and doom prognostications.

Alligator
05-22-2007, 23:17
The Athens Gathering though has different variables than Trail Days. (I haven't been to one up North yet.) The local population isn't involved with the event. The camping area is drastically separated from the main daily activities. The camping area is very remote from any significant population. And most people drive to the Gathering and therefore have a reasonably secure place to store valuables. There aren't nearly as many fully loaded packs laying around to tempt people. The goods aren't on display.

Trillium
05-22-2007, 23:21
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help
this is the way I felt last summer. . . but occasionally I see some genius amongst the insanity. additionally, the poster seems to have a truly good heart.

max patch
05-22-2007, 23:28
Am I the only one who doesn't get it about this guy???? What do I need to to to get the secret decoder ring, or more importantly is it worth it??????
Please help

attention whore. put on ignore.

Yahtzee
05-22-2007, 23:38
Can someone explain what the original intent was? Just not clear on that.

Can't say I mind the commercialism or the carnival stuff. The overwhelming majority of us carry commercial gear and TD is a great place to either mingle with manufacturers or actually get stuff fixed. Plus the booth area is fun. May not align with the original intent of the Founders but I'll let Justice Scalia, oops, I mean those who actually work on TD decide the future of TD. Nothing is static in life and I prefer an idea that has morphed thru genuine growth than clinging to some old fangled notion of how things should be.

The problems lay in the campground. Damascus PD do a fine job of making sure hikers don't f' up town, but the campground is a whole nother story.

The first year of the campground many hikers, including myself, who clang to the old fangled notion that tent city was on the creek, stayed on the creek. Finally, a townswoman (forgot her name) basically explained (wink, wink) that in the campground we could do whatever we wanted. Those were her words. I think if left to hikers, the worst "doing what we wanted" would be getting really drunk or high and getting naked. Not the best but most assuredly not what it has become.

I wish I could offer a solution. Even a storage area won't keep out the interlopers who come to screw off and start trouble. Realistically, more PD patrols within the campground is the best bet, but that almost seems more trouble than it is worth. For the PD and the hikers. Even at our drunkest and loudest, the overwhelming majority of hikers continue to respect the basic boundaries we have set for each other. Self-policing? Man, I saw some of that in '03 with Gonzo and that got damn ugly.

At the least, I think the PD could roam the grounds and ID the drinkers. That might dampen some of the youngsters.

Anyway, thanks for the work on TD. Haven't been since '04 but did enjoy it the times I was there. Focus on the campground. Whatever else TD has become, it has become thru genuine interest and the success of all the work of Damascus and its townspeople.

warren doyle
05-22-2007, 23:51
The Gathering at Pipestem/Concord from 1982-2004 was never intended to be a party scene. This type of behavior was always discouraged and people who wanted to party were discouraged to attend. It's all about leadership and vision.
I would have loved to have Charles Trivett and Dan Bruce with me as I've toured the TD campground on Sunday morning the last several years just to hear their thoughts and feelings.
Thanks for the invite Local. I would like to attend a meeting when I don't have another commitment going on. Please put me on your mailing list for future planning meetings.

mweinstone
05-23-2007, 00:28
me and warren party alot at gatherings.

Heater
05-23-2007, 00:50
me and warren party alot at gatherings.

attention whore!!!! :D

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 01:23
attention whore!!!! :D

I don't think that you should speak of Mr. Doyle in that way.

I'm just sayin'...

Heater
05-23-2007, 01:31
I don't think that you should speak of Mr. Doyle in that way.

I'm just sayin'...

I was not referring to Warren, but if the shoe fits.... :cool:

attroll
05-23-2007, 01:32
I don't think that you should speak of Mr. Doyle in that way.

I'm just sayin'...
I may be wrong but I think he was referring to mweinstone.

crzy33w
05-23-2007, 03:22
I am not yet a thru hiker, however i got a few miles on the trail, and im not condoning thievery(if thats a word), but to leave your stuff outside your tent while you sleep, in a crowded area, or to leave your stuff up against a tree when your gone is asking for pain. I wish we all could be honest campers, and i understand the need to get around without your pack occasionally but lets be real. at bare minimum put the pack in your tent, or maybe even hide it in some bushes or possibly designate one person to watch a **** load of equipment and take turns. Parodon me if anyone thinks i am out of line, but i read this post and felt the need to complain about it. you may not deserve it, but your asking for it if you leave your life support just laying around in the open. lastly i want to send my wishes to all of you on the trail right now, i hope everyone is loving it, ill be there in 2008. i am jealous of all of you, except the packless and the thief. :)

crzy33w
05-23-2007, 03:31
I am not yet a thru hiker, however i got a few miles on the trail, and im not condoning thievery(if thats a word), but to leave your stuff outside your tent while you sleep, in a crowded area, or to leave your stuff up against a tree when your gone is asking for pain. I wish we all could be honest campers, and i understand the need to get around without your pack occasionally but lets be real. at bare minimum put the pack in your tent, or maybe even hide it in some bushes or possibly designate one person to watch a **** load of equipment and take turns. Parodon me if anyone thinks i am out of line, but i read this post and felt the need to complain about it. you may not deserve it, but your asking for it if you leave your life support just laying around in the open. lastly i want to send my wishes to all of you on the trail right now, i hope everyone is loving it, ill be there in 2008. i am jealous of all of you, except the packless and the thief. :)

RockStar
05-23-2007, 06:43
ROCKSTAR, YOU HAVE MAIL! TAKE CARE GIRL! AND FOR YOU PEEPS OUT THERE WANTING TO KNOW WHAT HER MAIL IS ABOUT, IT IS AND APOLOGY FOR MY RANT, AND I DONT HAVE A HANGOVER, I DRINK THE GOOD STUFF!!! .

Thank you Legs. You also have mail. ;)


only one suggestion my weary and stolen from peeps. no one leaves without showing id and a pass. the pass has your pack color and make on it. anyone leaving with a pack without a packpass dies. anyone leaving with a pack and a packpass and no or wrong id, dies. anyone messing with leggs anymore,....same. leggs cares man. let him care. its good folks care. the packpass would have space to list all of your gear if you like. ditto paper and a copy left at the cops table insure thief captures galore. no way out with gear unless they put it in a bigger pack. and we will have our own hiker checkers to show the cops a load that looks stuffed.done. end of problem. no more trail days bashing please. its a wonderful thing. shame on you warren.

YOU crack me up. :D I bet you're really in the CIA or something and do this for kicks. :cool: Or as I said before you are on the same meds as I am and just aren't taking them. ;)

mweinstone
05-23-2007, 08:10
i second matthewskis packpass idea. wait a minute,...who is this?

your other self.

whats your name?

miscueski.

mweinstone
05-23-2007, 08:11
then theres ascueski whos all ascued.

D'Artagnan
05-23-2007, 08:37
Tent City is a little like New York City -- It's a nice place to visit, but I'm not sure I'd want to live there.

I stayed on the other end of Damascus with a quieter crowd and thoroughly enjoyed my second TD. I was able to catch some amazing bluegrass as the Damascus Volunteer Fire Department and hang out with some really cool people. I enjoyed the parade but also heard from Baggins (a very petite older lady who is thru-hiking this year) that she was hit on the side of the head by a water balloon that failed to burst on contact. She was still feeling the pain of this hit an hour later. I can see Warren's point that (my words here) TD may become a victim of its own success. That would be unfortunate for many reasons.

Hopefully the local folks can get a handle on the troublemakers -- be they hikers or non-hikers and return a sense of safety to the gathering. Let's just not burn the village to save the village.

MattBob
05-23-2007, 08:51
A friend of mine had his pack and all the stuff he bought Sat stolen Sat night also. It was attached to a tree next to his hammock.

Ewker, I think I was the other hanger next to your friend, along the river. I was appalled when I was asked by someone (maybe you?) in that group if I had anything stolen. He was the guy who had a lantern stolen and then his pack, right?

BTW, I still get a chuckle when I think about how I went to bed around 10-10:30pm and woke up to an entire camp that mushroomed overnight. I quite enjoyed it, mainly because I didn't hear you guys setting up.

MattBob
05-23-2007, 09:00
richard the can man was the local referenced here. hes cool. helped him gather cans and hit the motherload around the 2006 tent. he was cool to meet. as are all locals of all trail towns ,...cool. the can man showed up early and worked hard all day.


Richard 'the can man' was always up early walking around rescuing cans that would end up in the trash. I'm not sure why, but whenever he was around, I was always smiling. He always talks good about hikers and has this warmth about him that is hard to miss. I even helped out trying to find more cans for him to take away. I'm surprised that there is no place to be able to recycle glass, cans, and the required plastic drinking containers (dixie cups and gatorade bottles).

Crazy Larry #1
05-23-2007, 09:22
Jobie, thanks for this information, and I will take this opportunity to encourage everyone who is in a situation like this to contact the police at the gate as soon as they can. The police are anxious to preserve order, and either calming down or ejecting a bunch of drunks is high on their list. If the police had heard of this early, your Trail Days experience would have been a lot more calm. We hope next year you don't have that experience, but if you do, please contact law enforcement as soon as possible.
Another thought is that at next years event is that everyone gets assigned camping spots with vital stats on them, I'm just thinking here...........:-?

Footslogger
05-23-2007, 09:23
Maybe it's just me, but I always operate under the belief that my personal gear security is MY responsibility.

General law enforcement observation and patrols are a good idea. Hikers leaving the campsite with a backpack should be questioned regarding ownership. But rather than try and come up with some foolproof solution for theft I would just hang a sign at the entrance to the hiker ghetto reminding all hikers that in deciding to set up camp and participate in the festivities the accept personal reponsibility for their backpacks and gear.

Encourage hikers to use the "out of sight/out of mind" philosophy and make regular revisits to their tents. In an ideal world this wouldn't be necessary but we all know how that works. It's really no different than leaving your backpack unattended in any trail town along the AT. There are just more people at Trail Days so the odds are in the theifs favor.

'Slogger

Skyline
05-23-2007, 09:28
One thing about the Gathering that Trails Days do not have in common is location. Everyone know when and where TD's is each year it never moves. On the other hand the Gathering moves from year to year. Yes it is announced in advance but the bad element is out for the quick and easy they do not want to travel. Thus keeping the majority of the lowlifes at bay.

The hiker community knows when and where the Gathering is to be held well in advance. Just as with Trail Days, hikers come from all over to attend the Gathering. If it was the hiker "lowlifes" who are committing most of these thefts at TD, they could just as easily show up and do the same at the Gathering. My suspicion (and that of the Damascus PD according to Local) is that most of the culprits are not hikers.

Crazy Larry #1
05-23-2007, 09:29
to say that "locals" or non-hikers are responsible for stealing packs and gear is BS. this was my 17th trail Days and i've lived in Damascus 6 years now. thieving has been going on since Trail Days started. i've never been confronted by a "local" trying to sell stolen gear. there's a certain element in the "hiker community" that are just low-life pathetic f cks who are on the trail to party and f ck other hikers over. i know what i'm talking about. i see them constantly. i agree with warren. Trail Days days are numbered.
I agree with you somewhat and I definitely think Warren makes some valid points to ponder on. Perhaps we need to regroup and come at this as it was originally planned in the first place?

Crazy Larry #1
05-23-2007, 09:35
Many of us share the feeling that the commercialism, carnivals, and other irrelevant stuff are getting away from the original intent of Trail Days. We continue to ask hikers, both in residence here and in other areas, to participate in the planning of Trail Days.

(Warren, as you know, Banner Elk is 43 miles from Damascus, a little less than an hour if the roads are clear.)

We meet this Thursday, May 24th, 7 p.m. at Town Hall. Future meetings will be announced in this thread.

We particularly would like to hear from the Chicken Littles here ("The sky is falling! The sky is falling!") about how we can improve Trail Days, and specifically how we can make it more like the original planners envisioned.

It seems that two separate festivals are emerging, one at the campground for the hikers, the other in Town Park for the tourists and vendors. I may be wrong.

The Trail Days committee needs more expertise and advice, and fewer gloom and doom prognostications.
I'll be at that meeting, and I agree with you that there seems to be two seperate events going on. What about the all of the gear vendors being geographically located with the hikers?

Local
05-23-2007, 09:46
I'll be at that meeting, and I agree with you that there seems to be two seperate events going on. What about the all of the gear vendors being geographically located with the hikers?


Nah, we will keep the commercialism in one area, and the hikers/campers in another. The reps at the campground are good about self-monitoring, and anyone trying to sell stuff usually gets sent away to the vendor area, where they pay a fee. To open up the campground to people selling stuff would just add to the chaos.

Wanderer, the meeting this Thursday is the Discover Damascus volunteer group, which also has responsibility for Trail Days. I'm going to bring up some of the issues discussed on this forum, but you may have to endure some discussion of flower planting on Laurel Avenue.

Skyline
05-23-2007, 10:29
I'll be at that meeting, and I agree with you that there seems to be two seperate events going on. What about the all of the gear vendors being geographically located with the hikers?

If I was a gear vendor, I would want maximum exposure to the largest number of people. That would be in the Town Park, not the Tent City.

Ewker
05-23-2007, 11:35
Ewker, I think I was the other hanger next to your friend, along the river. I was appalled when I was asked by someone (maybe you?) in that group if I had anything stolen. He was the guy who had a lantern stolen and then his pack, right?

BTW, I still get a chuckle when I think about how I went to bed around 10-10:30pm and woke up to an entire camp that mushroomed overnight. I quite enjoyed it, mainly because I didn't hear you guys setting up.

I think the guy that asked you might have been the one on crutches. I left right after it happened. A few of the guys went over to where Riff-Raff had camped on the other side of the creek.

We still think it was a setup by the one guy coming in and sitting down then 15 or so minutes later he left. Right after that is when Spam (lantern also) noticed it was missing. Same guy
Glad you didn't have anything stolen.
Oh BTW I camped in the so called "quiet area" :p

The Weasel
05-23-2007, 12:14
For those who can't afford to lose the value of their gear - for some that can exceed $2,000 and for many/most it's still well over $1,000 on a replacement basis, especially if cameras/phones/GPS/Ipods are included - please consider Homeowner's or Renter's Insurance coverage for your gear. It's explained a bit more in Law For Backpackers in the articles sectoin, but it is remarkably cheap, even with deductibles, and covers a lot of damage as well as theft. Most insurers will let you do an immediate purchase paid by them directly to the outfitter, which can mean 'back on the trail' in a few days.

The Weasel

Crazy Larry #1
05-23-2007, 12:19
Nah, we will keep the commercialism in one area, and the hikers/campers in another. The reps at the campground are good about self-monitoring, and anyone trying to sell stuff usually gets sent away to the vendor area, where they pay a fee. To open up the campground to people selling stuff would just add to the chaos.

Wanderer, the meeting this Thursday is the Discover Damascus volunteer group, which also has responsibility for Trail Days. I'm going to bring up some of the issues discussed on this forum, but you may have to endure some discussion of flower planting on Laurel Avenue.
Is taht at the Town Hall?

Jack Tarlin
05-23-2007, 14:13
Quick comments regarding Mr. Warren Doyle's comments in #70, above:

Doyle's animus and bitterness towards the Billville group is long-standing and well known. Basically, his balls are frosted because he blames this group of people for helping getting him tossed off the ALDHA Board (which is true, they did indeed vote against him en masse, along with scores of other folks) And it bothers him immensely that Billville people are now quite active in ALDHA, an organization that Doyle has essentialy withdrawn from, for reasons of his own choosing.

But his comments in Post#70 above are unfair, unjustified, and untrue.

The drinking at Trail Days long preceded the appearance of the Billville group, and of course, Mr. Doyle is aware of this. In terms of alcohol abuse, the years that saw the most alcohol-related arrests and/or ticket citations by law-enforcement personnel actually took place several years before Billville even existed.....and of course, Mr. Doyle also knows this to be true. In short, his "history" of Trail Days and alcohol is incomplete at best, and disingenuous or false, at worst. In short, not for the first time, he's full of it.

Mr. Doyle is also perfectly aware that there has alweays been drinking at the Gathering also, including drinking by ALDHA officials, Board memebers, employeees of the Folklife Center, etc. And this hasn't been a problem, either. There was considerable drinking at the last Gathering, for example, and there were no problems that I'm aware of as a result of this. Mr. Doyle presumably knows this, too. Of course, he'd be in a better position to comment on this if he'd bother to actually attend the event in question, which he didn't, but this can't be helped.

Mr. Doyle is also aware of the other things that Billville people do......but of course he never speaks of these things. We've done a volunteer work project at Pine Grove Furnace Park for years, for example. And we've never seen Warren there. We've been active in Bob Peoples' post-Trail Days "Hardcore" Trail maintenance project since its inception.....but I've never seen Warren there. This past Tuesday, four out of five people on the Hardcore cooking crew were Billville people. Of the three people who have taken part in all seven Hardcore projects two out of three are Billville people, and the third is a friend of ours. Billville people manned the ALDHA information table at Trail Days this year....as they have for many years. How many hours did Waren put in at the booth this year? Billville people and their friends were active before, during, and after Trail Days, working with Trail Days officials and others to help the event run smoothly. How much work did Mr. Doyle do? It should also be added that on several occasions this past weekend, our camp was graced by the presence of Damascus' very friendly Chief of Police, who has become a friends of ours. In short, if our group constitutes some sort of imminent threat or danger at Trail Days, as Mr. Doyle asserts, this would certainly be news to people that actually live in Damascus, and work to keep that community safe.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Mr. Doyle's post is nothing but bile and blather. If he actually had a beef with us, he was welcome to come by and address this in person......he certainly knows where we were camped, as he walked by on Sunday morning, no doubt eager to see piles of uncollected garbage, passed-out minors, pools of puke, and other unpleasantries. Of course, none of this was there, much to his disappointment, I'm sure. For 7 years, we've made a practice of leaving our camps in better condition than we found them, and of course this happened this past weekend in Damascus. If Doyle wishes to challenge this, then he should contact anyone in town or on the Trail Days Committee; then he can get back to us and tell us what he discovered.

In closing, there are folks here on Whiteblaze who think I have a real problem with Doyle.

Well yeah, but only when he says foolish or untrue things.

His post above, #70, is complete nonsense. If has a problem with any of my friends that make up the Billville group, then he should have the fortitude and integrity to address thee people personally.....if he's concerned and wishes to discuss what transpires at hiker events and get-togethers, well, he should actually bother to attend them, instead of commenting and complaining monthg later with a farrago of conjecture, hearsay, exaggeration, and falsehoods.

In short, his attitude regarding the Billville group is getting a bit tiresome.
He's essentially becoming a figure of increasing insignificance in ALDHA and the hiking comunity, and in his bitterness and self-pitying peevishness, he's striking out at us because he needs someone to blame.

Suggestion to Mr. Doyle: Lose the negativity. C'mon out, do some volunteer work. Join us at Pine Grove or Kincora some year. Find out who we are.

After all, that's what the folks in ALDHA did......which is why several of our members and friends now help lead that fine organization. Mr. Doyle could learn by this example. Gee, Warren: Hundreds and hundreds of folks have seen what sort of people make up the Billville community or associate with it, and they've seen fit to award some of these folks with positions of prominence and respect in the hiking community. These same hundreds of folks recently gave you the FEWEST number of votes in an ALDHA election, and they did this for any number of reasons. I don't expect Mr. Doyle to be elated over this, but he should at least understand the implications: People in the Billville group and their friends are very active in the long-distance hiker community, are respected by many in the community, and give a great deal back to the Trail every year.

Mr. Doyle could profit by their example.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 14:26
I may be wrong but I think he was referring to mweinstone.

What should I put as a clue if I don't want to use a smiley face to say "that was a joke, y'all!"

I kind of thought that calling him Mr. Doyle and using a respectful tone would give it away...

LEGS
05-23-2007, 14:30
Thank you Legs. You also have mail. ;)

thank you, i knew you were good folks. sorry about the no hiker remark, no harm intended. oh yeah, dots is the drinking establishment and the beers are on me. hope to be seein you there soon. just check with mt.rogers outfitters to find out if i'm in town same time you are. i maybe hippity hoppin along. hahahaha(private joke between lw and me. ). later girl. peace and out. oh yeah, matty be good folks for sure.

YOU crack me up. :D I bet you're really in the CIA or something and do this for kicks. :cool: Or as I said before you are on the same meds as I am and just aren't taking them. ;)

no he is not cia, but the irs knows him.

mweinstone
05-23-2007, 17:27
jack makes valid points. if a bit dull for pokeing sake. allow me kind sir.you may have too much to loose.

i met warren and his wife. i watched there presentation at the gathering. i was impressed with his hiking and depressed by him. hes a fkn ingrate.
a control freak, and hates youth cause hes lost it.

any questions?

Lilred
05-23-2007, 18:14
matthewski,
Never knew you could be so articulate...... LOL

Frosty
05-23-2007, 18:53
WASNT TALKING ABOUT THE STOLEN PACKS MAN, SORRY THAT HAPPENED, BUT TO ASSUME THAT LOCALS CANT ATTEND THIER OWN PARTY IS WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING. METH FREAKS WERE PROBABLY TO WASTED TO EVEN KNOW WHAT A PACK WAS , I'VE HAD MY TENT STOLEN THERE A FEW TIMES AND OTHER THINGS OVER THE YEARS, SOMETIMES IT WAS HIKERS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE FROM ABINGDON, AND OTHERS I'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROM TO STEAL MINE AND OTHER PEOPLES THINGS. I'LL TAKE THE SIDE OF THE TOWN ANYDAY OVER ANY DAMN METH FREAKS, LOCAL PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO COME TO THIER OWN PARTY, IS ALL I'M SAYIN MAN. PEACE!It isn't about taking sides, as though we get to vote on who stole the packs. They were stolen by whoever they were stolen by, and you can't change what happened, even by typing in all caps.

Anyway, no one is saying local Damasconians cannot attend their own party. The party is on the green and in the town, right? The camping area is more like lodging. No reason everyone wouldn't be welcome in the lodging area also, but let's not go overboard and say 'tenters only in the tent site' means that locals are not permitted to partake of Trails Days. There is a lot more to Trail Days than the Drum Circle that Lone Wolf leads every night....



I'VE HAD MY TENT STOLEN THERE A FEW TIMES AND OTHER THINGS OVER THE YEARS, SOMETIMES IT WAS HIKERS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE FROM ABINGDON, AND OTHERS I'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE THEY CAME FROMA few!!!!:eek:

How many times did you have a tent stolen?

Just a Hiker
05-23-2007, 19:21
Hello all. I heard about the all of the stolen packs, and I think its a shame. I have extra packs if any of these hikers need a pack to finish their hike. I will be leaving June 2nd for another SOBO thruhike, but I can send out some packs before I go. One is a Gregory Palisades and the other is an REI Morningstar. Just let me know. Take care all.

Just Jim

spittinpigeon
05-23-2007, 19:33
Quick comments regarding Mr. Warren Doyle's comments in #70, above:

Doyle's animus and bitterness towards the Billville group is long-standing and well known. Basically, his balls are frosted because he blames this group of people for helping getting him tossed off the ALDHA Board (which is true, they did indeed vote against him en masse, along with scores of other folks) And it bothers him immensely that Billville people are now quite active in ALDHA, an organization that Doyle has essentialy withdrawn from, for reasons of his own choosing.

But his comments in Post#70 above are unfair, unjustified, and untrue.

The drinking at Trail Days long preceded the appearance of the Billville group, and of course, Mr. Doyle is aware of this. In terms of alcohol abuse, the years that saw the most alcohol-related arrests and/or ticket citations by law-enforcement personnel actually took place several years before Billville even existed.....and of course, Mr. Doyle also knows this to be true. In short, his "history" of Trail Days and alcohol is incomplete at best, and disingenuous or false, at worst. In short, not for the first time, he's full of it.

Mr. Doyle is also perfectly aware that there has alweays been drinking at the Gathering also, including drinking by ALDHA officials, Board memebers, employeees of the Folklife Center, etc. And this hasn't been a problem, either. There was considerable drinking at the last Gathering, for example, and there were no problems that I'm aware of as a result of this. Mr. Doyle presumably knows this, too. Of course, he'd be in a better position to comment on this if he'd bother to actually attend the event in question, which he didn't, but this can't be helped.

Mr. Doyle is also aware of the other things that Billville people do......but of course he never speaks of these things. We've done a volunteer work project at Pine Grove Furnace Park for years, for example. And we've never seen Warren there. We've been active in Bob Peoples' post-Trail Days "Hardcore" Trail maintenance project since its inception.....but I've never seen Warren there. This past Tuesday, four out of five people on the Hardcore cooking crew were Billville people. Of the three people who have taken part in all seven Hardcore projects two out of three are Billville people, and the third is a friend of ours. Billville people manned the ALDHA information table at Trail Days this year....as they have for many years. How many hours did Waren put in at the booth this year? Billville people and their friends were active before, during, and after Trail Days, working with Trail Days officials and others to help the event run smoothly. How much work did Mr. Doyle do? It should also be added that on several occasions this past weekend, our camp was graced by the presence of Damascus' very friendly Chief of Police, who has become a friends of ours. In short, if our group constitutes some sort of imminent threat or danger at Trail Days, as Mr. Doyle asserts, this would certainly be news to people that actually live in Damascus, and work to keep that community safe.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Mr. Doyle's post is nothing but bile and blather. If he actually had a beef with us, he was welcome to come by and address this in person......he certainly knows where we were camped, as he walked by on Sunday morning, no doubt eager to see piles of uncollected garbage, passed-out minors, pools of puke, and other unpleasantries. Of course, none of this was there, much to his disappointment, I'm sure. For 7 years, we've made a practice of leaving our camps in better condition than we found them, and of course this happened this past weekend in Damascus. If Doyle wishes to challenge this, then he should contact anyone in town or on the Trail Days Committee; then he can get back to us and tell us what he discovered.

In closing, there are folks here on Whiteblaze who think I have a real problem with Doyle.

Well yeah, but only when he says foolish or untrue things.

His post above, #70, is complete nonsense. If has a problem with any of my friends that make up the Billville group, then he should have the fortitude and integrity to address thee people personally.....if he's concerned and wishes to discuss what transpires at hiker events and get-togethers, well, he should actually bother to attend them, instead of commenting and complaining monthg later with a farrago of conjecture, hearsay, exaggeration, and falsehoods.

In short, his attitude regarding the Billville group is getting a bit tiresome.
He's essentially becoming a figure of increasing insignificance in ALDHA and the hiking comunity, and in his bitterness and self-pitying peevishness, he's striking out at us because he needs someone to blame.

Suggestion to Mr. Doyle: Lose the negativity. C'mon out, do some volunteer work. Join us at Pine Grove or Kincora some year. Find out who we are.

After all, that's what the folks in ALDHA did......which is why several of our members and friends now help lead that fine organization. Mr. Doyle could learn by this example. Gee, Warren: Hundreds and hundreds of folks have seen what sort of people make up the Billville community or associate with it, and they've seen fit to award some of these folks with positions of prominence and respect in the hiking community. These same hundreds of folks recently gave you the FEWEST number of votes in an ALDHA election, and they did this for any number of reasons. I don't expect Mr. Doyle to be elated over this, but he should at least understand the implications: People in the Billville group and their friends are very active in the long-distance hiker community, are respected by many in the community, and give a great deal back to the Trail every year.

Mr. Doyle could profit by their example.


Somebody just got....

Local
05-23-2007, 20:52
Before this discussion gets too far down a different road, we are asking individuals, or friends of these individuals, to send us information on the packs stolen. We would like to know approximately when (day and hour) the theft took place, approximately where in the campground or other area it took place, and the approximate value of the items stolen.

Also if other items were stolen, such as cameras (we know of at least three), please provide the same information.

We would like the trail name of the person who got robbed, but this is not necessary. This information will be confidential. If there seem to be duplications we will try to resolve these.

You may post here in this thread if you feel like it, or send me an e-mail at rswebsites @ gmail.com (please remove the spaces).

The town wishes to diminish this problem in future events, and your suggestions have been helpful, and will be discussed at our upcoming meetings.

Gray Blazer
05-23-2007, 20:57
Hello all. I heard about the all of the stolen packs, and I think its a shame. I have extra packs if any of these hikers need a pack to finish their hike. I will be leaving June 2nd for another SOBO thruhike, but I can send out some packs before I go. One is a Gregory Palisades and the other is an REI Morningstar. Just let me know. Take care all.

Just Jim
Now there is someone who will actually help. Thanks,JJ!:sun

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 21:42
I still say that they ought to put Jack and Warren in a stadium big enough to hold both their egos and let 'em point and shout 'til the cows come home.

A whining old man and a broken down old hiker. Who gives a ****.

Wonder
05-23-2007, 22:05
I try to stay out of the Jack/Warren battles......but I'm very much siding with Jack here. The members of the Billville community are good friends of mine, and I would trust each of them till the end. I think that Billville has an overwellmingly positive effect on the trail and inspires others to do more.
Nuf' said from me

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 22:34
I have always found criticism of Jack a wee amusing. Sure, he can be a prickly pear if it is subject close to him, but who can't? Always seemed to me to be people who would rather bitch than dialogue that are the ones criticizing. I mean, sheesh, have your own opinion and hold it. Besides, the "broken old hiker" is still going and is still the best repository for information regarding the actual hiking of the AT. Of all those who speak with "authority" on the AT, he's the only one with the bona fides. My only problem with Jack is I have never been party to one of his shelter breakfasts. Always next year.

Any criticism of Billville is ignorant. And by ignorant, I mean, if you have been to Billville gathering you would know what a fine bunch of lowlifes they are.

Peace out and see ya at the Warmer, if not the Feed.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 22:59
I have always found criticism of Jack a wee amusing. Sure, he can be a prickly pear if it is subject close to him, but who can't? Always seemed to me to be people who would rather bitch than dialogue that are the ones criticizing. I mean, sheesh, have your own opinion and hold it. Besides, the "broken old hiker" is still going and is still the best repository for information regarding the actual hiking of the AT. Of all those who speak with "authority" on the AT, he's the only one with the bona fides. My only problem with Jack is I have never been party to one of his shelter breakfasts. Always next year.

Any criticism of Billville is ignorant. And by ignorant, I mean, if you have been to Billville gathering you would know what a fine bunch of lowlifes they are.

Peace out and see ya at the Warmer, if not the Feed.

Check your mail and wipe that stuff off yer nose. And do you really need little Jackie to teach you how to hike? Damn, it's just a trail. 300 pounds carrying 75 is a recipe for disaster. Maybe he'll do another hike just to prove me wrong, but right now it looks like he's got less chance than Minnie Smith did last year. He ain't done a hell of a lot since '03.

Unlike him, at least I'll talk about him to his face, or at least where he can see it.

RiverWarriorPJ
05-23-2007, 23:07
So my boyfriend (Mt. Dew) and I were camping at Trail Days in the parking area of tent city when our packs were stolen. They were leaning up against the outside of our tent while we were sleeping, and they were just gone in the morning. The police said that others had reported theirs missing as well. Does anyone know anyone else who lost one? Does anyone remember seeing anything like that on Saturday night? We're not realistically expecting to get them back, but if anyone's got any insight we'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Rainbow Brite

..I met a "Mt Dew" on SunDay....He had his PACK & only was POed about having 2 b at work on MonDay....thnx 4 the beer DEW.........

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 23:10
Pawned by a cyberhiker (thanks Pirate for that term), what will I do with myself.

And anyone who knows me, which is a ton of people on this site, will tell you I don't kiss no one's ass.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:13
Pawned by a cyberhiker (thanks Pirate for that term), what will I do with myself.

And anyone who knows me, which is a ton of people on this site, will tell you I don't kiss no one's ass.

Well you can kiss mine. How long has it been since you hiked? Or dreamed of hiking or W T F ever it is you do. I'll be out on the trail tomorrow and ten days forward. Doubt I'll see you, kid.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:17
Pawned by a cyberhiker (thanks Pirate for that term), what will I do with myself.

And anyone who knows me, which is a ton of people on this site, will tell you I don't kiss no one's ass.

I still say I'd like to meet you somewhere. 8,000 miles my ass.

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 23:23
That's a big ass, 8000 miles wide. But from the sounds of it, you seem like that big of an ass.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:30
That's a big ass, 8000 miles wide. But from the sounds of it, you seem like that big of an ass.

What are you, like 12 or something? And, trying to calm back down, where do you get off on calling me a cyberhiker? You don't know me that well. I've been posting a lot in the last few weeks because I've been recovering from tendinitis from HIKING. I went out for ~50 miles last week, and it still hurts some, but I'm going out again, because, you might have noticed, not hiking makes me grouchy.

BTW, Jack can defend himself. He's probably still very near a computer somewhere in NE Tennessee.

If you want to back this down some, I will. If you want to keep it going, I have enough rage inside to spend the rest of my life letting out, and I ain't always good at controlling it.

I'm sorry that I cursed you. But I'll say again, you don't know me, and you have no right to stick your nose into something between me and Jack. I was goading him, after all.

Your move.

Gaiter
05-23-2007, 23:31
girls girls your both pretty

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 23:39
Your quite attractive, yourself. But those feet seem abnormally big. ;)

Night, consider me backed off. I can rage, too. Which I guess was my pt. about Jack. Take him or leave him, but why bitch? If it was just innocent goading than we both got some good "pissin' contest" practice in.

Jack Tarlin
05-23-2007, 23:41
Hey Nightwalker.....

Thanks for all the kind words!! Love hearing from my fans!

I'm goin' hiking tommorow morning. And the day after that. And then some more.

And you??

See you out there somewhere maybe......but I sorta doubt it.

Oh.....by the way, you didn't need tendinitis to be grouchy or foolish. But you can use it as an excuse if you like.

Have a nice day!

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:44
Have a nice day!

Thanks a lot Jack.

P.S. Yeah, I'm an ass. Sorry I started it. By the time I'm not mad anymore, it's just way too late.

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:46
I'm goin' hiking tommorow morning. And the day after that. And then some more.

And you??

Same here, as a matter of fact. This whole thing started out as a joke that just got out of hand.

Jack Tarlin
05-23-2007, 23:47
Geez, you're right. Life's too short.

Good to hear from you, see you out there before too long.

Peace, and out. Hittin' it early tomorrow.

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 23:50
While were at it, I give myself 30 lashes with a wet Lipton noodle for being a cyberdick.

Truly, Happy Trails to all. :sun

Nightwalker
05-23-2007, 23:51
Geez, you're right. Life's too short.

Good to hear from you, see you out there before too long.

Peace, and out. Hittin' it early tomorrow.

Thanks Jack. It don't show online, but I love ya. I wish we got along online like we do in person.

Finishing packing now, and feeling like an idiot for the rest of the evening. Sorry to you too, Yahtzee.

Yahtzee
05-23-2007, 23:53
Group hug. My apologies to you as well, Nightwalker. You deserve the credit for the first olive branch.

BTW, that lasted all of 50 minutes. If only all disputes in the world ended so quickly.

Jack Tarlin
05-23-2007, 23:59
Geez, can ya just feel the love.

It's getting all warm and gooey here, lemme tell ya.

That being said, Warren is still a gutless moosecock who REALLY needs to trashtalk to people's faces once in awhile, and God knows he certainly had the chance this past weekend in Damascus. I ran into him across the street from the Outfitters, but he kinda scurried on down the sidewalk like a cockroach caught in a kitchen light......if he had something to say about me or any of my friends, it seems he didn't feel the need.....or had the ability .....to make his points in person, man to man.

Not his style, evidently.

And not exactly a surprise, either.

Nightwalker
05-24-2007, 00:04
That being said, Warren is still a gutless moosecock who REALLY needs to trashtalk to people's faces once in awhile, and God knows he certainly had the chance this past weekend in Damascus.

Not his style. More the look down his nose and get offended type.

But dang, if he doesn't know how to bait you! Don't you think that he does it on purpose just to get you going?

spittinpigeon
05-24-2007, 00:04
While were at it, I give myself 30 lashes with a wet Lipton noodle for being a cyberdick.

Truly, Happy Trails to all. :sun

Did somebody say James Lipton?

Gaiter
05-24-2007, 00:05
lol wow, this is a kodak moment!

attroll
05-24-2007, 00:18
OK, could we please get on track here. We know Warren thinks he is some type of a god and the best thing to do is to let him think that and just ignore him.

Now back to the subject.

Does anyone know what the time frame was when most of these packs were stolen? Was it during the parade? Maybe there is some type of pattern that we can figure out.

Jack Tarlin
05-24-2007, 00:26
The pattern?

Usually, it involves untended property left OUTSIDE a tent, or a tent left in an isolated spot.

Solution:

1. Square your s*** away. Don't leave it out in the open, even for a few
minutes.
2. Camp around other folks, in a high-traffic, popular area. Thieves don't
work where they can be observed by others.
3. Keep valuables (wallets, ID's, credit cards, cameras, etc.) with you at
all times.
4. If you know someone with a car, lock up most of your stuff, and keep
in your tent only what you need.

Pretty simple.

LEGS
05-24-2007, 01:14
It isn't about taking sides, as though we get to vote on who stole the packs. They were stolen by whoever they were stolen by, and you can't change what happened, even by typing in all caps.

Anyway, no one is saying local Damasconians cannot attend their own party. The party is on the green and in the town, right? The camping area is more like lodging. No reason everyone wouldn't be welcome in the lodging area also, but let's not go overboard and say 'tenters only in the tent site' means that locals are not permitted to partake of Trails Days. There is a lot more to Trail Days than the Drum Circle that Lone Wolf leads every night....

A few!!!!:eek:

How many times did you have a tent stolen?
well as far as i can remember in 15 years its been twice. and thats to many.

Gaiter
05-24-2007, 01:17
well as far as i can remember in 15 years its been twice. and thats to many.

ya might want to read jack's last post (#180)
just a little tip

LEGS
05-24-2007, 01:25
ya might want to read jack's last post (#180)
just a little tip

like they said, i dont need jack to keep me straight. i just need to take care of it myself, but damn, when ya havin good time ,sometimes ya forgets things. but i learned, so aint no biggie. got good tent now, serves me well, and i'm keepin it. see ya out there someplace sometime. hike safe, happy trails. aint lost nuthin at traildays since "01 so i good to go.

LEGS
05-24-2007, 02:11
That must be a recent development.

Kudos for doing the right thing.

nah, i still drinkin my pbr's, hahahaha. but did manage a good many sips of some good ol spring water. sorry i missed ya at trailsdays man, had some business here to take care of and only got there friday evening and left sunday, had good time , but was short time, always like to spend week or two in damascus. thanks man,i try. hike safe, see ya when i can.

RockStar
05-24-2007, 02:23
My god this thread is weird. Its like little Pms bombs are set to detonate ever so many posts or something.

Nightwalker
05-24-2007, 02:41
My god this thread is weird. Its like little Pms bombs are set to detonate ever so many posts or something.

Don't make me cry...

Jimmers
05-24-2007, 02:47
From what I heard wandering around early Sunday morning, two of the thefts occured sometime saturday night. I'm fairly certain one was Mt. Dew. Can't recall the other hiker's name, but he had a redish brown beard. ( Yeah, I know that's a big help. Describes a third of the males there.:cool:)

Nightwalker
05-24-2007, 02:49
From what I heard wandering around early Sunday morning, two of the thefts occured sometime saturday night. I'm fairly certain one was Mt. Dew. Can't recall the other hiker's name, but he had a redish brown beard. ( Yeah, I know that's a big help. Describes a third of the males there.:cool:)

Hey! Aren't you supposed to be on the GW thread about now? (joke) :D

Jimmers
05-24-2007, 03:16
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be on the GW thread about now? (joke) :D

Funy you should say that! I was just about to post there when I realized anything I had to say would just add to global warming; I'm taking a break until I find something that really annoys me. Conservation and all. :D

mweinstone
05-24-2007, 07:08
im going to be a pack theif when i grow up.

Gray Blazer
05-24-2007, 07:41
im going to be a pack theif when i grow up.

What are you now?:D

Local
05-24-2007, 07:43
OK, could we please get on track here. (snipped)

Now back to the subject.

Does anyone know what the time frame was when most of these packs were stolen? Was it during the parade? Maybe there is some type of pattern that we can figure out.


Sigh. Thanks, ATTroll. I fear this thread has run off the tracks. We'll try to work with the information we have on the number of packs stolen, the places and the time. This information is limited because only a few people reported a theft to the police. If we knew the whens and wheres we could be better prepared next year.

Alligator
05-24-2007, 08:01
The pattern?

Usually, it involves untended property left OUTSIDE a tent, or a tent left in an isolated spot.

Solution:

1. Square your s*** away. Don't leave it out in the open, even for a few
minutes.
2. Camp around other folks, in a high-traffic, popular area. Thieves don't
work where they can be observed by others.
3. Keep valuables (wallets, ID's, credit cards, cameras, etc.) with you at
all times.
4. If you know someone with a car, lock up most of your stuff, and keep
in your tent only what you need.

Pretty simple.These are good points.

Now, this may be my imagination being a section hiker, but I have to wonder if LDHs get so immersed in being on the trail that they may let their guard slip regarding the perils of society, such as thievery. I know hikers tend to be cautious in town, but they may still slip in the campground. Maybe a little bit of an awareness program could be a quick reminder to be a little more cautious. This could be a central poster or a volunteer moving through the camping area.

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 08:27
Just a matter of time before Trail Days in Damascus comes to an end. Hard core partiers are coming in droves and I predict a death or two in the future from alcohol poisoning and/or drug overdoses.

Alligator
05-24-2007, 08:29
Just a matter of time before Trail Days in Damascus comes to an end. Hard core partiers are coming in droves and I predict a death or two in the future from alcohol poisoning and/or drug overdoses.Traded in the big spoon for an electric mixer today I see:D .

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 08:33
Traded in the big spoon for an electric mixer today I see:D .

Nah. Just the reality of what it is. The Bread and Puppet theater festival in Vermont ended in 1998 after a guy was killed in a drunken brawl. Ban alcohol and TDays will go on for a long time.

Alligator
05-24-2007, 08:46
Nah. Just the reality of what it is. The Bread and Puppet theater festival in Vermont ended in 1998 after a guy was killed in a drunken brawl. Ban alcohol and TDays will go on for a long time.That's a reasonable point. A friend of mine used to go to Bread and Puppet and he told me how he ended up leaving due to the scene.

On the other hand, this thread was primarily orientated around theft. Drunken theft is much easier to catch, the perps tend to be sloppy and easier to catch:jump .

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 08:51
That's a reasonable point. A friend of mine used to go to Bread and Puppet and he told me how he ended up leaving due to the scene.

On the other hand, this thread was primarily orientated around theft. Drunken theft is much easier to catch, the perps tend to be sloppy and easier to catch:jump .

stolen packs, drunkenness, drugs, big crowds. they all add to the degradation of Trail Days. I'm glad I went to the earlier TDays years ago.

The Old Fhart
05-24-2007, 08:56
Lone Wolf-"stolen packs, drunkenness, drugs, big crowds. they all add to the degradation of Trail Days. I'm glad I went to the earlier TDays years ago."Strange, but as a sober person, that's just how I remember the good old Trail Days!;) Ya know, maybe the problem here is that when you get as old as you are, you start to forget-what was I saying?:D

Blissful
05-24-2007, 08:58
Ban alcohol and TDays will go on for a long time.

Right on. Best suggestion yet. Even my underage son was offered stuff numerous times at tent city (so for all those who once said on WB that my overprotected home school son needs to experience "the world" so he can make his own way, he has, along with pipes being passed by him at shelter sites before his nose and everything else)

Gaiter
05-24-2007, 09:05
but you ban alcohol and hikers will start camping in places other than tent city, they'll be spread out and causing more trouble, people are going to find a way to drink, i like that its all kept in tent city, if something bad does happen, help isn't far away and isn't hard to find.

Ewker
05-24-2007, 09:09
Local,
I know one guy on TT who had his lantern stolen one night and his pack stolen the next night. I copied and pasted what you posted earlier about on TT. Hopefully he will contact you.

You know where we were camped at since you taped the area off. I heard the Riff-Raff group was a little upset that we had their place from last yr so they moved across the new bridge and camped on that side.

Alligator
05-24-2007, 09:09
Local (and in effect the TD committee) was getting valuable input regarding theft prior to the thread being derailed by Warren. These other ideas could easily have their own thread.

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 09:12
Local,
I heard the Riff-Raff group was a little upset that we had their place from last yr so they moved across the new bridge and camped on that side.

that's the reason why i feel there should be NO roped off or reserved areas for certain "clubs" at TDays. first come, first served. period.

Jack Tarlin
05-24-2007, 09:13
Geez, enough with the sanctimony, OK?

Some of the folks who today are the biggest critics of TD, and consider that the festival has become a horror show, are themselves guilty of the same behavior that they now bemoan. I've seen some very prominent TD critics drunk as monkeys at Trail Days in recent years; I've seen some other TD critics not only supplying folks with strong drink, but also selling it, especially illegally-made homemade liquor.

And I'm not talking about years ago, either

So let's tone down the rhetoric a bit, eh? Otherwise it's time to put on the hip-waders cuz the bull flop is starting to pile up a bit here.

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 09:16
Geez, enough with the sanctimony, OK?

Some of the folks who today are the biggest critics of TD, and consider that the festival has become a horror show, are themselves guilty of the same behavior that they now bemoan. I've seen some very prominent TD critics drunk as monkeys at Trail Days in recent years; I've seen some other TD critics not only supplying folks with strong drink, but also selling it, especially illegally-made homemade liquor.

And I'm not talking about years ago, either

So let's tone down the rhetoric a bit, eh? Otherwise it's time to put on the hip-waders cuz the bull flop is starting to pile up a bit here.

it's not illegal to make liquor. it's illegal to sell for profit.

rafe
05-24-2007, 09:19
So let's tone down the rhetoric a bit, eh? Otherwise it's time to put on the hip-waders cuz the bull flop is starting to pile up a bit here.

Who appointed you guardian of comity?

max patch
05-24-2007, 09:33
well as far as i can remember in 15 years its been twice. and thats to many.

my tent was stolen 19 years ago down by the water. i reported it to the police who told me that tent thefts had happened before and that they would happen again.

Local
05-24-2007, 09:47
Just a matter of time before Trail Days in Damascus comes to an end. Hard core partiers are coming in droves and I predict a death or two in the future from alcohol poisoning and/or drug overdoses.

Wolf, dammit, we've asked you about a dozen times to help us with setting up Trail Days. Your knowledge is extensive, your contacts in the hiker community are vast, you live four blocks from where we meet at the town hall. You don't have to attend the meetings, but that's where decisions are made. I agree with you on the elimination of alcohol, or at least severely curtailing its use. Come on, man. It used to be that Marines would take part in the action, not stand on the sidelines complaining. We need your wisdom. How about getting involved?

Jack Tarlin
05-24-2007, 10:24
Hey Terrapin, haven't heard from you in months. That's what happens when one is out hiking, TT. You should try it some time!

Glad to see nothing's changed and you're still an idiot.

You missed the point, not exactly for the first time..... People that are well-known for getting all messed up at Trail Days, or those who help other people do so, aren't exactly in the best position to preach to others about restraint, the evils of demon rum, etc.

At least not unless they wanna be complete hypocrites.

And I'm not naming names here or singling out any one individual by the way. But there are folks who've spoken out in the past about the party scene, etc., who happen to be well-known hell-raisers themselves.

If you can't see the conflict here, Terrapin, then you're even dimmer than I thought.

Wonder
05-24-2007, 10:48
I do have to agree with Wolf, that major problems can happen when alcohol in involved with large groups of people. I've been a bartender for a long time.....I know. But it has become a large part of the festival, and I think more problems would arise from the banning of it. People sneeking, and being places they shouldn't. Where the irresponsable individuals(those who go way to far and depend on others to care for them.....there are many) can't get help if needed. Maybe it will fizzle out, and god forbib, maybe it will take a tragedy to do so......I sure hope not. Untill then, there will still be those of us who are there to yank people back from fires, get them home, and get them treated if nessassary.
I can easily compare it to the bar business. This is not much different then working a friday night at a college bar(and age of which many of these hikers are) only difference is that I"m not fighting them for car keys at the end of the night......if we ban alcohol, maybe that will be next......

as a side note......for the same reasons mentioned above, I hung up my bar rag a year ago.....just pouring coffee for the moment. I'm done with city college bars. I've just seen too much

pps......LOCAL...do we have a list of stolen items yet....a time frame or anything. That's what I"m most worried about here. We could have the booze talk every year. I'm upset, very upset by what happened this year.
nuf typing before coffee...

leeki pole
05-24-2007, 10:49
Hello all. I heard about the all of the stolen packs, and I think its a shame. I have extra packs if any of these hikers need a pack to finish their hike. I will be leaving June 2nd for another SOBO thruhike, but I can send out some packs before I go. One is a Gregory Palisades and the other is an REI Morningstar. Just let me know. Take care all.

Just Jim
I've got an extra pack, a Golite Gust if a thru needs it. Let me know as well.:)

Skyline
05-24-2007, 10:54
We've got a barely used Gregory pack, some ski poles you could use like Lekis, and misc. other gear in my shed. If someone lost his or her gear at TD and needs to replace it to keep going, maybe I could help too. Give a yell at skyline @ shentel.net (delete the spaces) and let me know your gear needs. I'll see what we have that matches up. We'll figure out how to get it to ya.

ShakeyLeggs
05-24-2007, 11:05
I am still of the opinion that the centralized storage of packs is the best idea put forth here so far.

Jack does point out some simple and easily doable things to protect yourself from theft. But no matter what you do if someone wants to steal your stuff they will find a way. You know the saying "You only put a lock on something to keep the honest people out". No matter what security measures are put into place the dishonest will find a way to circumvent it. The best we can hope for is to minimize the risk.

I think I might have been the first to suggest banning alcohol (post 115). But after reading the comments here about it and doing some thinking I have changed my position. But I do feel that the PD needs to take a zero tolerance stance on alcohol. If someone is visibly intoxicated arrest them for public drunkenness. After a few arrests and people realize that the PD is not playing games people will tone it down (hopefully).

Jack Tarlin
05-24-2007, 11:07
Incidentally, and I can't remember if someone's already mentioned it, in addition to the magnificent assistance supplied by some gear reps in banding together to replace a hiker's stolen gear (and they've done this in other years, too), the Damascus Police pased the hat and gave the theft victim around 35 bucks (he was left penniless) which was a heluva nice thing to do.

The ENTIRE Damascus Police Department (from the Chief on down) was absolutely great all weekend, as well as the officers from other jurisdictions. Considering what these guys put up with every year, I think they used remarkable kindness, patience, and restraint.

I hope some of the folks here on Whiteblaze who've contributed to the anti-police threads (like the Erwin one for example) take note of this. Damascus has some very cool locals, and some of them are in uniform.

Wonder
05-24-2007, 11:09
I have a barely used Lowe Alpine Sorrocco (too big for me), and some somewhat well used EMS aluminimum poles. I cannot get to these items before 5/30, but would be willing to give them to a hiker who has had their stuff stolen at TDs.

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 11:17
Hello all. I am going to have to stop coming to this website because its too painful sometimes. I came on too see if any of the hikers whose packs were stolen needed gear, but of course someone named ''Local'' had to take a shot at Marines. If Marines had been patrolling Traildays nothing would have stolen to begin with. This simple Marine has an easy solution for this issue. Don't get too drunk, have fun and watch your gear. Actually that applies to anywhere on the trail, so don't blame Wolf because he doesn't want to attend your meeting. Marines don't do meetings, we mind our business until its time to fight. Anyway, I hope all of the hikers get their gear replaced, and if I can help just let me know. Take care all.


Just jim

Wonder
05-24-2007, 11:17
I"m going to have to agree with Jack again. For the 2 years I've been coming to Damascus, the police have always been wonderful and helpful. They seem to enjoy having the hikers around, and try to be a restrained as they can. I think what warmed my heart the most were these two things.
1. I was headed to the bathroom sat. night, and came across a very drunk hiker I have never met. She fell down, and both me and one of the officers went to her assistance. She started to panic a bit at the sight of a uniform, so the officer told me that I was free to get her to her tent, and even offered to help me get her there. Lucky, a "friend" of hers came by, and though he wouldn't help me get her back, he directed me to her tent.
(I should add here, that it really pisses me of when a so called "friend" will pawn off helping because he was too busy dancing.....way to go dickwad)
2. Early one evening I was over at Billville and a friend informed the police that I am moving to Damascus.....they were so welcoming. Got hugs and handshakes all around. I love that the police are intrested in actually "knowing" the residents.....not just controling them like where I come from. Another HUGE check in the awsome book for Damascus

leeki pole
05-24-2007, 11:23
I've got an extra pack, a Golite Gust if a thru needs it. Let me know as well.:)
The pack is almost new. I've got some other gear (socks, a pretty good Columbia fleece, size medium and hat) that I can throw in there as well.

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 12:19
Wolf, dammit, we've asked you about a dozen times to help us with setting up Trail Days. Your knowledge is extensive, your contacts in the hiker community are vast, you live four blocks from where we meet at the town hall. You don't have to attend the meetings, but that's where decisions are made. I agree with you on the elimination of alcohol, or at least severely curtailing its use. Come on, man. It used to be that Marines would take part in the action, not stand on the sidelines complaining. We need your wisdom. How about getting involved?

Trail Days has run it's course. It's gotten too big for it's britches. It's not about hikers or the AT anymore. It's about parking, theft control, carnivals, drunkenness, etc. The parade is out of hand too. I saw a woman on a horse get whacked by a big water balloon that didn't break. It startled the horse and you could tell she was hurt by it. I mentioned Hobocentral leading the hikers in the parade in 08 but have reconsidered.

D'Artagnan
05-24-2007, 12:45
...The ENTIRE Damascus Police Department (from the Chief on down) was absolutely great all weekend, as well as the officers from other jurisdictions. Considering what these guys put up with every year, I think they used remarkable kindness, patience, and restraint...

I'd also like to put in a plug (no pun intended) for the guys in the Damascus Volunteer Fire Department. I spent a few hours there Saturday night listening to some great live bluegrass and got to meet a few of their members and their Chief. They were very welcoming and open to us and I know from personal experience the long hours these volunteers put into protecting the lives and property of their fellow citizens. A great group of people who deserve our respect and appreciation. They really know how to make you feel at home.

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 12:59
Before this discussion gets too far down a different road, we are asking individuals, or friends of these individuals, to send us information on the packs stolen. We would like to know approximately when (day and hour) the theft took place, approximately where in the campground or other area it took place, and the approximate value of the items stolen.

Also if other items were stolen, such as cameras (we know of at least three), please provide the same information.

We would like the trail name of the person who got robbed, but this is not necessary. This information will be confidential. If there seem to be duplications we will try to resolve these.

You may post here in this thread if you feel like it, or send me an e-mail at rswebsites @ gmail.com (please remove the spaces).

The town wishes to diminish this problem in future events, and your suggestions have been helpful, and will be discussed at our upcoming meetings.
I think that information will be very helpfull in the future..........

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 13:06
Geez, can ya just feel the love.

It's getting all warm and gooey here, lemme tell ya.

That being said, Warren is still a gutless moosecock who REALLY needs to trashtalk to people's faces once in awhile, and God knows he certainly had the chance this past weekend in Damascus. I ran into him across the street from the Outfitters, but he kinda scurried on down the sidewalk like a cockroach caught in a kitchen light......if he had something to say about me or any of my friends, it seems he didn't feel the need.....or had the ability .....to make his points in person, man to man.

Not his style, evidently.

And not exactly a surprise, either.
Man, I am truly entertained with this mumbo jumbo from you, Nightwalker, and Yahtzee...........I needed some good humor..........:D

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 13:06
Not his style. More the look down his nose and get offended type.

But dang, if he doesn't know how to bait you! Don't you think that he does it on purpose just to get you going?
I agree with that!

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 13:21
Trail Days has run it's course. It's gotten too big for it's britches. It's not about hikers or the AT anymore. It's about parking, theft control, carnivals, drunkenness, etc. The parade is out of hand too. I saw a woman on a horse get whacked by a big water balloon that didn't break. It startled the horse and you could tell she was hurt by it. I mentioned Hobocentral leading the hikers in the parade in 08 but have reconsidered.
I think what you say has credence to it LW and that committee needs to hear it directly from you. You maybe an ass sometimes LW, but by golly your a smart ass.

I ain't saying that in a bad way either bro.............:D

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 13:22
I'd also like to put in a plug (no pun intended) for the guys in the Damascus Volunteer Fire Department. I spent a few hours there Saturday night listening to some great live bluegrass and got to meet a few of their members and their Chief. They were very welcoming and open to us and I know from personal experience the long hours these volunteers put into protecting the lives and property of their fellow citizens. A great group of people who deserve our respect and appreciation. They really know how to make you feel at home.
that was a good band for sure................

quicktoez
05-24-2007, 14:05
I haven’t read all the post but I know Hangman had his all his money taken from his wallet in Miss Janet’s van and a few other items were also taken from her van overnight Saturday. I myself think I was a bit complacent in regard to my gear because their had been so few problems in the woods. Some kind of storage might help but all in all I think compared to the real world the thefts better than it could have been unless you where one of the unlucky few.
I also think speculation is not healthy and that the locals, especially the ones with badges are awesome. The vendors and police stepping up was above and beyond and I know others helped replace items the vendors didn’t have also.
This was my first TD but not my last, I will remember it forever. I hope Damascus will welcome us for years to come and that a few thieves and fools don't tarnish what is so special for so many.

rafe
05-24-2007, 14:14
Hey Terrapin, haven't heard from you in months.

Nor I from you. It's been real nice. All things must pass...

mweinstone
05-24-2007, 14:55
prolly some old fagen dude somewhere like in the movie oliver twist. going over your gear with his sticky little meth fingers. i hope his next hit exsplodes his ass.

warren doyle
05-24-2007, 15:31
After a long hiatus, the chief internegator emerges from the non-internet world and scores many repressed points (along with a few supporting teammates).

Internegators = 15

Team fkn ingrate; control freak; youth-hater; lost; shameful; godlike; scurrying cockroach; gutless moosecock; whining; frosted-ball; full of it (bile&blather); and bitter & self-pitying = 0 (obviously)

I guess they had a different 'word wall' in their classroom than I did.

Yahtzee
05-24-2007, 16:03
Warren is channeling Matthewski, take cover!

Groucho
05-24-2007, 16:06
it's not illegal to make liquor. it's illegal to sell for profit.

Just in case someone is thinking that they will make their own:
http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/genalcohol.htm#g1


I think that it also illegal to own a still over 1 gal. capacity, and use of that is limited to uses other than spirit distillation. You can apply for a special license for fuel distillation.

Jimmers
05-24-2007, 16:23
Warren is channeling Matthewski, take cover!
Matthewski makes more sense.:eek:

Pacific Tortuga
05-24-2007, 16:51
Talking about stealing packs, Warren on a trivia team about the Appalachian

Trail. Why not just give him a pack and let the others play .......... for

whats left. I really think Warren should be a judge and oversee if the

answer is correct or not, you know, some of the gray areas. Had a great

time and Miss Janet was wonderful. 'OR' Place Jack up there and make it Family Fued :banana

Local
05-24-2007, 17:23
Hello all. I am going to have to stop coming to this website because its too painful sometimes. I came on too see if any of the hikers whose packs were stolen needed gear, but of course someone named ''Local'' had to take a shot at Marines. (snipped)

OK, Just a Hiker, my apologies for the misinterpretation here. I was trying to put some guilt on Wolf and get him to put his advice to good use locally. He is a wealth of information and has a clear perception of problems. I think there are only two or three people in Damascus who read whiteblaze, however.

And I'm not "taking a shot" at Marines. I'm a former Marine (1961-1967) and after my reserve service I spent time in Viet-Nam as a "civilian." I've worked with the military in the Middle East and other places. I regret you thought I was somehow knocking Marines.

Local
05-24-2007, 17:27
I'd also like to put in a plug (no pun intended) for the guys in the Damascus Volunteer Fire Department. I spent a few hours there Saturday night listening to some great live bluegrass and got to meet a few of their members and their Chief. They were very welcoming and open to us and I know from personal experience the long hours these volunteers put into protecting the lives and property of their fellow citizens. A great group of people who deserve our respect and appreciation. They really know how to make you feel at home.

D'Artagnan and others of you who have made positive comments about the police and fire department and local volunteers, I will print your comments and have them read at the next town council meeting. Your good remarks go a long way in encouraging people to work harder next year.

Local
05-24-2007, 17:31
Local,
I know one guy on TT who had his lantern stolen one night and his pack stolen the next night. I copied and pasted what you posted earlier about on TT. Hopefully he will contact you.

You know where we were camped at since you taped the area off. I heard the Riff-Raff group was a little upset that we had their place from last yr so they moved across the new bridge and camped on that side.


Ewker, thanks for this. We are aware that S*** had his pack stolen, and also his lantern. It seems someone was seen walking through the Trail Talk site and then was seen standing outside the site watching.

Concerning Riff-raff, I spoke to them personally and told them that we had given the site to another group because lask year they f cked up. This year they were a bit loud, of course, but left the cleanest campsite in the whole area. I also heard one of the Riff-raff crowd lecturing everyone about looking out for local kids who were trying to get alcohol, and how these kids should be thrown out of the campsite. Impressive.

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 17:36
Hey there Local! Its all good, and you don't need to apologize for anything. My mind set was on the most current problem which is that there are hikers out there without gear, and I wanted to help. I can appreciate the huge undertaking of organizing an event like Traildays. Good luck and Semper Fi!


Just Jim

Crazy Larry #1
05-24-2007, 18:25
OK, Just a Hiker, my apologies for the misinterpretation here. I was trying to put some guilt on Wolf and get him to put his advice to good use locally. He is a wealth of information and has a clear perception of problems. I think there are only two or three people in Damascus who read whiteblaze, however.

And I'm not "taking a shot" at Marines. I'm a former Marine (1961-1967) and after my reserve service I spent time in Viet-Nam as a "civilian." I've worked with the military in the Middle East and other places. I regret you thought I was somehow knocking Marines.
Wolf definetly makes sense on this issue and I wish he would come around to getting involved..........

mweinstone
05-24-2007, 18:40
one of us may have captured the thief with the pack in hand. if a list was posted we could check our photoes witch may number in the tens of thousands. its worth a shot .

spittinpigeon
05-24-2007, 19:35
OK, Just a Hiker, my apologies for the misinterpretation here. I was trying to put some guilt on Wolf and get him to put his advice to good use locally. He is a wealth of information and has a clear perception of problems. I think there are only two or three people in Damascus who read whiteblaze, however.

And I'm not "taking a shot" at Marines. I'm a former Marine (1961-1967) and after my reserve service I spent time in Viet-Nam as a "civilian." I've worked with the military in the Middle East and other places. I regret you thought I was somehow knocking Marines.

Either way, a Marine should be able to take it. Hopefully no Al Queda are reading this, otherwise they'll know an easy way to take Marines down.

Lone Wolf
05-24-2007, 19:38
Either way, a Marine should be able to take it. Hopefully no Al Queda are reading this, otherwise they'll know an easy way to take Marines down.

ok cupcake, fill us in on exactly what you know about Marines.

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 19:58
Yes Spittinpigeon, fill us in on your vast knowledge of the Marine Corps and what it takes to be one. I would love to hear this BS.

Just Jim
USMC

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 20:02
Yeah sweetheart , fill us in on your vast knowledge of the Marine Corps and what it takes to be one. I would love to hear this BS.

Just Jim
USMC

spittinpigeon
05-24-2007, 20:13
Hello all. I am going to have to stop coming to this website because its too painful sometimes. I came on too see if any of the hikers whose packs were stolen needed gear, but of course someone named ''Local'' had to take a shot at Marines. If Marines had been patrolling Traildays nothing would have stolen to begin with. This simple Marine has an easy solution for this issue. Don't get too drunk, have fun and watch your gear. Actually that applies to anywhere on the trail, so don't blame Wolf because he doesn't want to attend your meeting. Marines don't do meetings, we mind our business until its time to fight. Anyway, I hope all of the hikers get their gear replaced, and if I can help just let me know. Take care all.


Just jim



Once a Marine always a Marine right? It just disappoints me to see one running with his tail between his legs over some misinterpreted internet squabble.

Local
05-24-2007, 21:09
Once a Marine always a Marine right? It just disappoints me to see one running with his tail between his legs over some misinterpreted internet squabble.

I am confused. Whose tail is between whose legs? Is this something that should be discussed personally?

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 21:16
Hey there Pigeon*****!

You will never understand the brotherhood and Esprit De Corps of AT Hikers or US Marines. Maybe when you move out of your parent's house and actually do something important, you will. A brokedick like you will always have to hide behind the sacrifice of others, so on Memorial Day why don't you thank a veteran who made it possible for you to have the freedom to be a jerk on this AT Site. No one is impressed with you, nor does anyone take you serious. You are a child who likes to bait people, but I am not biting.

My offer still stands. If any hiker whose gear was stolen, needs gear, just let me know. I'll be around till June 2nd whereupon I'll be back on the trail. Take care!


Just Jim

spittinpigeon
05-24-2007, 22:02
Hey there Pigeon*****!

You will never understand the brotherhood and Esprit De Corps of AT Hikers or US Marines. Maybe when you move out of your parent's house and actually do something important, you will. A brokedick like you will always have to hide behind the sacrifice of others, so on Memorial Day why don't you thank a veteran who made it possible for you to have the freedom to be a jerk on this AT Site. No one is impressed with you, nor does anyone take you serious. You are a child who likes to bait people, but I am not biting.

My offer still stands. If any hiker whose gear was stolen, needs gear, just let me know. I'll be around till June 2nd whereupon I'll be back on the trail. Take care!


Just Jim


I honor God for my freedom not marines, so don't be expecting a reach around this Memorial Day. Ya know, you could be right about the baiting, but you're wrong about not biting. And I don't expect to be taken serious. This whole thread is a circus and if you want to play, this is the place to do it. Someone mentions the word Marine and you two get your panties in a bunch while taking everything out of context. My comments were directed at the irony of you being a self-proclaimed tough marine who can't take a little online banter, but as usual the WB'ers like to put words in other people's mouths and never look back. Not to mention that you completely misinterpreted Local's post and made something out of nothing. I suppose that's where I decided to step in.
It's a dog eat dog forum, it didn't take me too long to realize that and become pre-emptive. Jerk? ME? Possibly, but I've seen almost half the people on here who could easily earn that label, including your dear comrade L. Wolf. The difference is, when we're all sitting around a fire with a brew in our hands, it's the complete opposite from online. I had my reservations about that for a while, thinking that one is more likely to say what they actually mean when hidden behind the semi-anonymity of a monitor, mouse and keyboard. But now that I'm on the driver's side, I realize that it's all in jest.
Maybe I shouldn't even be getting this deep into it, because you'll surely skip over all that and continue with the marine thing. But maybe, just maybe, someday over the rainbow, there will exist a WhiteBlaze where everyone is literate, and every post is about the AT, and nobody misunderstands every other post, and Guns N Roses finally releases Chinese Democracy.
Until then, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

dixicritter
05-24-2007, 22:07
Alright boys, settle down or it'll be corner time. And I'm not playin'!

Just a Hiker
05-24-2007, 22:49
Hey there Dixiecritter!

You guys can throw me off of Whiteblaze if you want to, and you can keep the money I have donated. But know this, I originally posted on this thread to try and help hikers whose gear was stolen at Traildays, and that's the only reason. I have never tried to cause trouble in here, but I won't take crap off anyone either. I was hiking just fine without Whiteblaze, and I can continue to do so. I don't need an internet site to validate my hiking, but I do need the hikers that make it up. So do what you gotta do. Take care!



Just Jim