View Full Version : Going Cheap on the Rain Gear
Passionphish
05-21-2007, 23:49
I bought the Sierra Designs Microlight Anorak, 9oz. It was thirty dollars. I am going to wash it in some DWR or over the counter equivilent.
Anybody see anything wrong with this? I figured I would have to do it to a more expensive jacket a few months later anyway. I just thought I would save the money.
Nightwalker
05-22-2007, 00:22
Nothing wrong with it at all. Especially this time of year. I use my Precip during colder weather, and a nylon shell with DWR when it's warmer. No real need to do more.
walmart has a $20 raincoat, thats what i use
Kerosene
05-22-2007, 08:06
No problem with the cost or the weight. Just realize that a DWR coating will eventually wet through given a long and strong enough rain. That may not be much of a problem during warmer weather and while you're hiking.
fiddlehead
05-22-2007, 09:32
I had one of those sierra designs microlights. Pretty wet in a good rainstorm. I'd get some Frogg Toggs if i were you. Not too much more money but a whole lot drier.
I picked up a “close-out” Gore golf jacket and pants about 15 years ago and usually take it in the spring and fall…in the summer I use a cheap untreated nylon jacket and pants…the Gore and nylon are more for wind and cold protection than for rain. My personal choice for rain protection is an umbrella, that I’ve been using long before I ever heard of Ray Jordine. My experience has been if it’s above 50 and the wind is a non factor I’m much happier on that long rainy uphill clime with shorts, breathable-T and deployed umbrella.
I've had a Marmot precip, the coating flaked off. Not cheap though. I have had my eye on the tyvek, and tyvek type painter's one piece suits available at Home depot and lowes, one suit offered had a front zip and a hood, stark white about 7-10$, and ranged around 8 -9 oz for the suit. would be warm, maybe as a backup to the umbrella/poncho for wet/wind cooler conditions.
At that price you could chop into pants/ top and add a waist band, a little dye. there were booties too, spare camp shoes anyone?
I am more cheap and opinionated than experienced, but I think with the right attitude and the right clothing underneath, rain gear can be very cheap and light. I like cheap light nylon as my wind layer and light rain layer. It is like the old k-way jackets. Not totally waterproof, but too light to absorb much either. If it's really pouring I wear my poncho tarp. Having the right layers and the right attitude underneath is what matters, not staying bone dry.
I've had a Marmot precip, the coating flaked off. Not cheap though. I have had my eye on the tyvek, and tyvek type painter's one piece suits available at Home depot and lowes, one suit offered had a front zip and a hood, stark white about 7-10$, and ranged around 8 -9 oz for the suit. would be warm, maybe as a backup to the umbrella/poncho for wet/wind cooler conditions.
At that price you could chop into pants/ top and add a waist band, a little dye. there were booties too, spare camp shoes anyone?
I can tell you, from experience, that Tyvek suits will wet through in minutes. I've worked in them and gotten caught in the rain. They are made of much thinner, softer and far less water resistant Tyvek than the housewrap.
They might work as a wind breaker, but make a lousy rainsuit.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-22-2007, 21:32
As Roland says, the painter / lab protection Tyvek is thinner than the housewrap and not suited to continual use. It will wet thru pretty quickly. For low-cost waterproof gear, Frogg Toggs are my choice. Some also like DropStoppers.
Footslogger
07-22-2007, 21:53
I bought the Sierra Designs Microlight Anorak, 9oz. It was thirty dollars. I am going to wash it in some DWR or over the counter equivilent.
Anybody see anything wrong with this? I figured I would have to do it to a more expensive jacket a few months later anyway. I just thought I would save the money.
=====================================
I own that jacket but have never thought of carrying it backpacking. I keep it in my daypack and carry it back and forth to work (just in case). Don't see why it wouldn't work as rain gear for backpacking ...as long as you realize that it is NOT the least bit breathable and will be like wearing a sauna. That said though, just about all rain gear end up being warm, regardless of how "breathable" the manufacturer says it is. If it's warm outside you'll probably end up just hiking in the rain without even putting it on.
'Slogger
FanaticFringer
07-22-2007, 22:56
As Roland says, the painter / lab protection Tyvek is thinner than the housewrap and not suited to continual use. It will wet thru pretty quickly. For low-cost waterproof gear, Frogg Toggs are my choice. Some also like DropStoppers.
Nice prices here:
http://search.stores.ebay.com/thegearlessmachine_frogg-toggs_W0QQftsZ1QQsaselZ30061046QQsatitleZfroggQ20t oggsQQsofpZ0
Passionphish
07-22-2007, 23:34
Totally know what you mean about not breathing. I wore it on a short hike near base camp one evening a week ago. It wasn't raining yet but was starting. I think I hiked a mile. Maybe. I was drenched on the inside!
So my next thought is to cut the armpit seams and install zippers.
When it did rain, the jacket did well. It shed every drop that hit. Not that I expect it to keep me totally dry. I believe that it is not wet or dry. But how wet you want to be. So I figure if I get the venting and/or base layers right, the anorak will be a great rain jacket. So far so good. But winter is coming!
Most versatile:
http://thepacka.com/
In cold weather when the rain gear doubles as a warmth layer:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/driducks_rain_gear.html
thelifejunkie
07-23-2007, 01:00
I dislike all "rain" coats. I have yet to find one that really works.
Passionphish
07-23-2007, 06:14
DriDuck Micropore is 12 oz... I like my 9 oz Anorak better. Especially when I consider BPL's notes on durability...
And the price is comparible if you include shipping....
superman
07-23-2007, 06:23
I've also used a garbage bag for rain gear. I've used it to hold body heat by cutting a head hole in the bottom and arm holes in the sides. I've also cut it to use like a poncho by cutting the sides such that I put the bottom corner on my head like a hat. The rest of it just gets thrown back over my pack. The only thing cheaper and lighter is nothing at all.
sixhusbands
07-23-2007, 07:37
Frog Toggs are an unbelievable product. You can get a set for about $50 new and they will last a long time. They keep dry even in the monsoon rains and they keep you warm. Plus they weigh next to nothing!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-23-2007, 08:10
I've also used a garbage bag for rain gear. I've used it to hold body heat by cutting a head hole in the bottom and arm holes in the sides. I've also cut it to use like a poncho by cutting the sides such that I put the bottom corner on my head like a hat. The rest of it just gets thrown back over my pack. The only thing cheaper and lighter is nothing at all.I've used these as emergency raingear on dayhikes with grand & great-grandkids. Cheap, effective and very light --- and several used together with side seams opened can form sides for a shelter made from Mamaw & Papaw's ponchos :D
superman
07-23-2007, 08:39
I've used these as emergency raingear on dayhikes with grand & great-grandkids. Cheap, effective and very light --- and several used together with side seams opened can form sides for a shelter made from Mamaw & Papaw's ponchos :D
Yes...plus grand kids are realy impressed with your cleverness. It's the stuff that great memories are made of.
socalhiker
07-23-2007, 12:33
I have been wearing tyvek hazmat safety clothing for several years for rain gear. It is a lightweight water barrier that is very breathable and inexpensive. Do confuse the tyvek housewrap with the clothing tyvek. housewrap is more pourous and heavy compared with the superlight clothing tyvek and probably would not be practical as rain gear, but the safety clothing has been very effective.
I recently bought a pair of Sierra Design's Micro-light pants, due to their advertised weight of 6 oz (6.2 oz on my digital scale) as part of my continuing effort to refine the weight of my gear. But honestly, I am not too impressed because the moment I tried them on I could feel my legs steaming up. I don't think I am going to rely on them on a trip. I really prefer the el cheapo shell pants ($15) I bought at Target, then snipped out the mesh liner. I had thought that if I liked the SD pants, I'd get the SD jacket or anorak, but not anymore.
For a rain jacket, I have the Marmot Precip and I have a Dropstopper (now Dri-ducks) jacket. The Dropstopper jacket weighs 6.1 oz and I think it does the job as well as anything-- I recommend it as a lightweight, inexpensive choice. Remember to order one size smaller, as these run big. I also have a sylnylon poncho tarp that I sometimes carry. And, I've often used the cheap ($.99) plastic ponchos you see in the check-out lines. They last longer than you might think. Ponchos have the advantage when it comes to ventilation.
Personally, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on raingear. The performance differential -- if any-- isn't worth it to me.
I have been wearing tyvek hazmat safety clothing for several years for rain gear. It is a lightweight water barrier that is very breathable and inexpensive. Do confuse the tyvek housewrap with the clothing tyvek. housewrap is more pourous and heavy compared with the superlight clothing tyvek and probably would not be practical as rain gear, but the safety clothing has been very effective.
What is the model number of the HazMat suit you use as lightweight raingear?
DriDuck Micropore is 12 oz... I like my 9 oz Anorak better. Especially when I consider BPL's notes on durability...
And the price is comparible if you include shipping....Are you talking about the Sierra Designs Microlight rain gear in your above post? If so, I think you have made a couple math errors somewhere along the line.
The Sierra Designs Microlight suit is $59 total. ($32 jacket and $27 pants) and weighs 15 ounces (9 jacket and 6 pants).
DriDucks cost $20 total (sold as set of jacket and pants) and weighs 12 ounces (6 jacket and 6 pants). If you are a member of BPL, the price is $15 a set.
What you prefer is up to you based on your own needs and how careful you are with your gear (durability), but the price isn't comparable. The Sierra Designs Microlight costs three times as much.
The DriDucks also require you to pay four bucks shipping, but it costs me more than four bucks to go to an REI store, so with the price of gas these days, I consider shipping to be a wash.
My favorite raingear is still the Packa. It isn't cheap but is exceptionally versatile. Switching from a pack cover to a poncho without taking the pack off is amazing. Cedar Tree also modified mine by lengthening each sleeve because of my gorilla-like arms. I believe he will also custom-size a Packa to fit your specific pack size. Cottage industry at its best.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-23-2007, 16:52
I have been wearing tyvek hazmat safety clothing for several years for rain gear. It is a lightweight water barrier that is very breathable and inexpensive. Do confuse the tyvek housewrap with the clothing tyvek. housewrap is more pourous and heavy compared with the superlight clothing tyvek and probably would not be practical as rain gear, but the safety clothing has been very effective.Dupont makes a line of hazmat clothing under the Tychem name. Is this what you are talking about?
Dupont makes a line of hazmat clothing under the Tychem name. Is this what you are talking about?
I remember those, yellow, waterproof, and disposable. (at least in 1997 when I last used them in the toner pits at Xerox)
socalhiker
07-23-2007, 18:43
Roland,
this is the link to the labcoat:
http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=127&idproduct=548
Mine is a size XXL and have modified by adding velcro closures on the front to provide overlap giving added weather protection.
the pants were purchased at least 7 or 8 years ago in a box of 25 from Grainger.com and I don't know the model number but the link above will allow you to navigate to tyvek pants. Most likely the stuff that is produced today is more advanced that the ones I purchased. However I have been using this set up for several years and I have never gotten wet in the numerous occasions I have had to break it out for some pretty significant, pelting type rain.
This being said, when I get caught in the rain, even with rain gear, I try to get out of and avoid standing in the rain any longer than I have too. That is not going to change for me. I will in the future try to get out of the rain. So based on my practice and experience, this set-up is just dandy. It is very light weight. The pants weigh 2.2 ounces and the jacket a little over 3. My experience tells me that what I wear is waterproof. I have never gotten wet in some pretty heavy rain. The pants cost 35 dollars for a box of 25 and the lab coat was a free sample.
One of the posts above challenges the water repellancy of tyvek. I wonder if the challenger was actually dealing with housewrap which is much more pourous than safety clothing. Additionally you might check out the tyvek specifications in the above link. It is fascinating.
the moment I tried them on I could feel my legs steaming up.That's why I only use rain pants in very cold weather. With or without pants (while you are on the move), your legs will be wet. The only issue is: Will they be warm and wet, or cold and wet. In cold weather, I prefer warm and wet. Also, in cold weather, the rain pants make a good extra layer. I typically bring thermals but not a pair of long pants, so the rain pants do double duty.
Rain jackets are better as you can open them up for ventilation in warm weatehr, but in hot weather, just keep your pack dry and enjoy the cooling rain.
~~~
One of the posts above challenges the water repellancy of tyvek. I wonder if the challenger was actually dealing with housewrap which is much more pourous than safety clothing. Additionally you might check out the tyvek specifications in the above link. It is fascinating.
Thanks for your reply, socialhiker.
I've never used the labcoat, that you provided a link to. I have, however, used full Tyvek suits (coveralls) on many occasions over the last 20 years. My experience with them is that they are not waterproof.
The Dupont website calls the coveralls "splash resistant", but not waterproof. Vertical surfaces resist wetting longer than horizontal surfaces. When working in the rain, the shoulders wet-through very quickly. Eventually the entire suit wets through and clings.
Your labcoat may be made of a different grade of Tyvek than the coveralls. Some of the chem suits are coated with polyurethane. If your labcoat is coated, that could explain why it has not leaked.
Three years ago, I bought FrogToggs. It's not much heavier than Tyvek, but much more waterproof. Still, I only wear the jacket when it's cold. I almost never wear the pants. On a hot, muggy day, an afternoon thunderstorm can be refreshing. I'd rather be bathed by fresh rainwater than to bathe in sweat. Overall, rainsuits are a PITA.
socalhiker
07-23-2007, 23:04
Roland,
Several years ago a pair of sunglasses arrived in the mail promoting a product that has slipped way beyond the grasp of my feeble memory but they were packaged in a little tyvek bag of the type similar or identical to hazmat clothing. For some reason I took the sunglasses out of the bag, filled it with water and squeezed attempting to cause it to burst. The bag neither burst, nor, amazingly, did it leak. Henceforth I acquired the stuff I presently use as raingear and described above. For me it works great.
Apparently not everyone has had the success that I have enjoyed with tyvek or we would see more of it sold as wilderness gear. I too have both Dri-Ducks and Rainshield and they are both fine products and, like you, eschew super expensive, bomber rain gear. Climbing in the winter is a different story. But for the hiking and backpacking I do, it has done the job.
Again, I urge you to read the characteristics page on the link describing tyvek- particularly the comparison to membranous water protection.
Roland,
~~~
Again, I urge you to read the characteristics page on the link describing tyvek- particularly the comparison to membranous water protection.
socalhiker,
I just realized that I misspelled your name, above. My apologies.
I returned to your link (http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=127&idproduct=548), to find the Tyvek Specifications. I found it here (http://www.protective-clothing.net/), on their home page. These two bullets quickly caught my eye:
Tyvek® is the industry standard for dry particulate barriers (emphasis mine)
Tyvek® lets air and moisture pass through (again, emphasis mine)These two points seem to support my experience, that Tyvek protective clothing is an ineffective rain barrier. I also noticed that the site you reference has no connection to Dupont, the maker of Tyvek. At the bottom of the page is this disclosure:
MPE is not affiliated with or licensed by DuPont.
Apparently this company is using the Tyvek name without permission and making knock-off protective clothing using "recycled Tyvek".
I went to the official Tyvek site (http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek/en_US/index.html) to see what Dupont had to say about Tyvek Personal Protection products.
In their general description of Tyvek for personal protection products, they make this claim (http://www2.dupont.com/NOWApp/DPPRequestGateway/0/5/?command=VCProtectionIntro&prtcn=1008):
Tyvek® offers protection from lead dust, mold, asbestos and many other dry particle and aerosol hazards that industrial workers come in contact with everyday
Notice that all the materials for which Dupont claims Tyvek offers protection, are dry materials. Dupont makes no claim that Tyvek used in personal protection products is waterproof.
Under Product Properties, Dupont describes the porosity (http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek/en_US/products/product_properties.html#porosity) of Tyvek by stating that the moisture vapor transmission of Tyvek is similar to that of coated paper. One would not expect a paper shirt to be waterproof.
I also checked Dupont's Permeation Guide (http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/assets/downloads/tychem/permguide82004.pdf) (caution, large file), to see how well Tyvek resists water penetration. While this guide rates the efficacy of a variety of Tychem fabrics, Tyvek did not earn a rating. Dupont makes no claim that Tyvek with anti-static coating, (the type used in in the labcoat you recommend) offers any waterproofing capability.
Dupont's claims are consistent with my experience with Tyvek suits. They protect against dirt and grime, but offer poor rain protection.
Perhaps our expectations for rain protection are different. The climates in New England and southern California certainly are different. But perhaps, our differences in opinion about the suitability of Tyvek for rain protection is best explained by this comment you made earlier:
This being said, when I get caught in the rain, even with rain gear, I try to get out of and avoid standing in the rain any longer than I have too. That is not going to change for me. I will in the future try to get out of the rain.
I wish you sunny days, whenever you're out on the trail.
Hana_Hanger
07-24-2007, 06:35
http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=123&idproduct=487
This is what I used to make a rain jacket it weighs 4.2 oz verses my Frogg Togg jacket at 13.2 oz
I had my son hose me down for over 10 minutes...only part that got wet was a little at the top by the neck ...next time I will order the overalls with the HOOD. I did put a flap over the zipper and velcro in 3 spots to hold it in place.
I also use the legs to make great stuff sacks. Only thing is white gets dirty quickly but you can draw on it and even dye it!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-24-2007, 07:33
This hood (http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=122&idproduct=562) plus an over-size labcoat (http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=126&idproduct=544) (big enough to cover me and pack) would equal excellent coverage for $5.21 plus shipping. Wonder how hard it would be to add a visor to the hood (Dinos don't like drops on their spectacles)
Edited to add: I may order a case of those hoods for the older grandkids. Those plus a trash bag would be better than the current system (a leaf bag). The little guys are good with a trash bag - I put their head in a corner and cut the face hole. I usually don't cut arm holes for the tots as they are so small they can move around in a trash bag pretty freely and they think being a burrito is really cool.
socalhiker
07-24-2007, 16:03
Frolicking Dinosaur,
If you indeed order the hoods and have a few left over I would like to purchase one two from you or alternately, trade pants for hoods. It would be cheaper for me over paying the shipping and handling cost of the seller. Just PM me if this develops. Thanks, SCH
Footslogger
07-24-2007, 16:17
I just clicked the link for the "hood" in FD's post and had a flashback to catholic grade school !!
'Slogger
socalhiker
07-24-2007, 16:35
Slogger, These flashbacks, I take it they are not a, "good thing?" :)
Footslogger
07-24-2007, 16:40
Slogger, These flashbacks, I take it they are not a, "good thing?" :)
=============================
Well ...let's just say I have always referred to it as having "SURVIVED" catholic school.
'Slogger
superman
07-24-2007, 18:53
=============================
Well ...let's just say I have always referred to it as having "SURVIVED" catholic school.
'Slogger
LMAO....are you flashing back to 4th grade dodge ball or thos "smiley faced" nuns? :) Pat and I refer to ourselves as "recovering Catholics.":cool:
Chaco Taco
07-31-2007, 19:43
I like the rain pants by Red Ledge. They sell em cheap at GOP. Light and really durable. Keep me plenty dry even in downpours:clap
Frogg Toggs rock. Breathable. Can use as wind breaker as well.
Uncle Silly
07-31-2007, 21:38
i agree, Frogg Toggs are the schnizzle-my-nizzle. my Toggs are my top windproof layer for chilly evenings on the ridge and work great in the rain. you do have to take care with them (like watching out for stray embers from the fire) but i doubt other products will be much better.
another vote for Frogg Toggs. I do have a hole in the jacket from a stray ember :eek:
can get drop stoppers at The Fly Shop in small... they are the same as the driducks and are the lighter 2 ply suit manufactured by frogg toggs. i prefer them to the frogg toggs because they are lighter, and don't have an elastic at the ankle so they ventilate better. try http://store.theflyshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1329&osCsid=f3b835a994aedaf85dbc5787e81a5761 if you want them in small. also, they are beige, not yellow...
Questtrek
07-31-2007, 23:13
Here's another vote for Dri-ducks .... I have a Sierra Designs Hurricane LT (http://www.rei.com/product/711808) jacket but at my size it weighs in at 16oz. to much for a summer backpack. I also have the Microlight (http://www.rei.com/REI-Outlet/product/754041) for a windshirt and light rain. If there's no rain in the forcast the I take that one. (just in case) great looking products. Nice and sturdy. As you can tell I like Sierra Designs. But... and thats a But..... I recently purchased a Dri-ducks (http://www.cpostores.com/froggtoggs/browse.cfm/4,448.htm) set up for that UL backpacking Trip... You can't go wrong. The jacket is 6oz. I probably won't use the pants unless untill I go to Isle Royale. Even then they are only 5 oz. on my scale. So I guess you just have to have different gear for different trips... If you on the AT all the time I couldn't comment on that. I'm sure that you would have to have something more durable like Frogg Toggs. (http://www.cpostores.com/froggtoggs/browse.cfm/2,271.html)
Questtrek:cool:
superman
08-01-2007, 09:29
I haven't been very fond of frogg toggs since an ember hit it. The frogg toggs were old and pilled. When the ember from a camp fire hit it ignited on my chest area and if it weren't for the quick response of my fellow hikers I would have been a lot burned instead of a little burned.
Oh yeah and how could I forget the time I was wearing my frogg togg pants while I was doing my laundry in a public Laundromat. I bent down and they split opened in the crotch in a big way.
Garbage bags are the bees knees.