Ammonia as dog defense

[insure ants]

I've heard of carrying bear spray as a defense against aggressive dogs on the trail, and am wondering about ammonia. Bear spray only has a few shots, then it's empty. Instead, I'm thinking about carrying a squirt gun filled with pure ammonia. Dogs with their ultra-sensitive sniffers almost certainly would be driven away with one line of that stuff aimed at their snout. What do you think?

[spittinpigeon]

:bananaI think you've just made another DRAMA THREAD! (cue the music):banana

[Jimmers]

I've heard of carrying bear spray as a defense against aggressive dogs on the trail, and am wondering about ammonia. Bear spray only has a few shots, then it's empty. Instead, I'm thinking about carrying a squirt gun filled with pure ammonia. Dogs with their ultra-sensitive sniffers almost certainly would be driven away with one line of that stuff aimed at their snout. What do you think?

It might work in a pinch. IF you can accurately hit the dog on its nose. I don't think Ammonia is strong enough to bother a dog if you only got it on the chest or legs.

[aaroniguana]

Can I go first? Huh? Please?

I carry a small can of pepper spray on my hiking pole. Where I hike locally, a lot of people hike and jog with dogs off leash, and it gets interesting sometimes. But I tested the spray on myself. Hurts like hell but I still have my vision. I doubt you can say the same for a dog squirted with ammonia. Even diluted.

Very, very bad idea.

[insure ants]

It might work in a pinch. IF you can accurately hit the dog on its nose. I don't think Ammonia is strong enough to bother a dog if you only got it on the chest or legs.

I figure if I set the nozzle to "wide" the spray will be broad enough to catch the dog in the face and his nose will know. Most dogs don't charge silently like a bear, but come right up to you and reveal their intention to take a bite out of crime, giving you time to get off a shot to their snout.


pepper spray .........I tested the spray on myself. Hurts like hell but I still have my vision. I doubt you can say the same for a dog squirted with ammonia. Even diluted.

I've heard this before but it sounds like a rural myth. Anyone have a scientific article that says dogs will go blind from a little ammonia? Even if true, if it comes to a choice between a dog taking a pound of flesh out of my leg and the dog having to order prescription glasses, I'm gonna save my pound of flesh.

[Chip]

:bananaI think you've just made another DRAMA THREAD! (cue the music):banana

I think you are right about another DRAMA thread. (I hike with my dogs on a leash ). Anyhow for those who want to carry a spray to stop dogs, why not ask a Vet as to what works best ? Postal letter carrirers carry a special spray to stop dogs as they deliver the mail. :)

[budforester]

I've heard of carrying bear spray as a defense against aggressive dogs on the trail, and am wondering about ammonia. Bear spray only has a few shots, then it's empty. Instead, I'm thinking about carrying a squirt gun filled with pure ammonia. Dogs with their ultra-sensitive sniffers almost certainly would be driven away with one line of that stuff aimed at their snout. What do you think?

You may want to alsso look over a recent thread on dogs and deterrents:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23529&highlight=ammonia

[spittinpigeon]

I had five black dogs come running after me just north of 19E, I jumped up, grabbed a tree limb, and managed to pull myself up with my pack on. I love dogs, but hate unleashed ones. My knife is handy, and a couple of good loud shouts coupled with aggressive forward motions sometimes does the trick in lieu of anything else. Of course that's with one or two dogs.... Five? Forget about it, I'm a wuss.

[Skidsteer]

I've heard of carrying bear spray as a defense against aggressive dogs on the trail, and am wondering about ammonia. Bear spray only has a few shots, then it's empty. Instead, I'm thinking about carrying a squirt gun filled with pure ammonia. Dogs with their ultra-sensitive sniffers almost certainly would be driven away with one line of that stuff aimed at their snout. What do you think?

Sounds like an excellent way to piss off an aggressive dog.

[insure ants]

Sounds like an excellent way to piss off an aggressive dog.

If it's full strength ammonia it should do more than piss the dog off, it should drive him away like the hounds of hell are after him.


He insisted on taking the dog, so I said fine I have a compromise. I knelt down and cut the damn thing's head off to his utter horror, the guy ran like hell, didn’t even try to stop me.

Right on. Right ON!

:banana

[Elf]

I'm more interested in the squirt gun than the ammonia. I've never owned a squirt gun that didn't leak at least a little. Most of them leak a lot.

[TIDE-HSV]

of my last post in the other thread, I got accosted by two off-leash black labs in the state park I live next to. It was one of the very few times I left the Halt behind, so I was left to play batter with my Leki. One dog, older and smaller, only made one pass and had enough. The other made three attempts to get at me, but he never had nerve enough to brave the stick, once I had it cocked back. The owner was trying to get them back on leash and I gave him an ass-chewing as I passed on by. All the trails are clearly marked that dogs must be leashed and it was a Saturday, when they would be bound to encounter someone along the way...

[buckowens]

First off, I love most dogs more than people... I was a Trooper in a past life and we carried pepper spray, and have had to use it on very aggressive dogs. It was a good alternative for me so that I did not have to shoot the dog. One good shot and they will take off pretty quickly. I have a canister attached to my waist belt for my upcoming section.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I used to add a bit of sudsy ammonia to my windshield washer tank. After replacing 2 fairly expensive washer pump motors in 6 mos. I discovered the ammonia ate up the seals. Not 100% sure but I suspect it would do the same to your squirt gun

[MOWGLI]

Insure-ants:

Have you done any hiking before? Or are you just a David Cone fan?

[Hikes with a stick]

I'm going to be doing a short section hike next weekend from Hughes gap to 19E, and this thread is getting me worried... It sounds like the dogs that give hikers problems are people's pets. Anytime I have ever seen a dog on a trail, all they usually want to do is sniff me. They have all been on a leash though...

What makes dogs so aggressive on the AT? Do go after hikers hoping to get food? Or is it just the fact when they are off the leash and away from their owners that they act more aggressively?

[MOWGLI]

What makes dogs so aggressive on the AT?

People's imagination.

[leeki pole]

I love dogs, have three. When I was running everyday, I always carried a water bottle filled with half ammonia/half water. We live in a pretty rural area where there are no leash laws.

Long story short, once you squirt poochie, right in the snout, he ain't going to mess with you again. It won't hurt the dog and when I ran by the next time, he just sat there and watched.

Just don't forget when it's August and hot to drink the wrong bottle!:)

[Rhino-lfl]

Physical violence is your best bet. Sprays can fail, clog, miss, etc. A good smash to the face, thrust with a sharp ended pole, or just let them bite the pole or a something on your arm and then run them through with the knife in your other hand.

Most people that get attacked by dogs on the trail start wetting their pants just as they see the dog and that fear will make the dog more aggressive. Unless you're a 5' tall 90lb woman and it’s a 260lb rotty, just crack or stab it. You'll never get in trouble with the law for defending yourself from a dog (unless it's a police dog lol). The hard thing to justify is why you beat the crap out of the dog owner and their hiking partner too.

[BigwaveDave]

I carried mail for a living, don't run, stand your ground , put something between you and the dog, backpack etc. If you have spray use it, if you have hiking sticks or a pole use it.Every dog is different, some you can talk to, some will haul butt, some won't. The only dogs we were really concerned with were pitbulls, dobbies and rots especially if they were trained as fighting dogs by some misguided humans. Then you in a world of hurt and would probably get tagged. Some dogs will try and circle you, don't let them blind side you. Whatever happens your never back down. That dog whisperer crap works great on TV.

[MOWGLI]

Watch a dogs tail. That usually tells the story. Am I right BigWaveDave?

[insure ants]

Watch a dogs tail. That usually tells the story. Am I right BigWaveDave?

I read a story on that in the science section of the NYT not long ago. The conventional wisdom is that if the tail is wagging, it's a happy and friendly dog that just wants to say hi. But this article made a distinction based on the direction the tail is wagging.

If a dog is distressed, it may wag its tail, but the wag will be primarily toward its left. The reason is that the fear/anger center is located in the right side of the doggie brain, so when this center is active, a tail may wag toward the opposite side of its body.

If a dog is happy, an area in the left side of its brain is activated, which will cause a tail wag mainly toward the right side of its body. I watched our dog after reading this article, and sure enough, when she was happily wagging her tail, the emphasis of the wag was toward her left. The tail will wag back and forth toward both sides, but there is definitely an emphasis toward one side of the body or another.

CAVEAT: I'm not sure I remember the directions correctly from the article. I may have left/right backwards.

Anyway, when a strange dog runs up to you on the trail, you probably won't have time to analyze the directional emphasis of its tail wag. That's why you need a weapon handy. Especially if I detect aggression, if it comes within two feet of me it will get a line of bear spray or ammonia.

[insure ants]

I watched our dog after reading this article, and sure enough, when she was happily wagging her tail, the emphasis of the wag was toward her left.

Oops. I meant the right.

[Hikes with a stick]

Is that my right or the dogs right?

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Physical violence is your best bet. Sprays can fail, clog, miss, etc. A good smash to the face, thrust with a sharp ended pole, or just let them bite the pole or a something on your arm and then run them through with the knife in your other hand.

Most people that get attacked by dogs on the trail start wetting their pants just as they see the dog and that fear will make the dog more aggressive. Unless you're a 5' tall 90lb woman and it’s a 260lb rotty, just crack or stab it. You'll never get in trouble with the law for defending yourself from a dog (unless it's a police dog lol). The hard thing to justify is why you beat the crap out of the dog owner and their hiking partner too.

You are one bad-a$$ed rambo-mofo aren't you? Bet your mommy tells you you're good looking too.

[Brrrb Oregon]

I'm thinking about carrying a squirt gun filled with pure ammonia..... What do you think?

I trust you mean household ammonia, and not anhydrous ammonia.

Undiluted household ammonia can burn the mucous membranes of the dog's nose and mouth and possibly damage the cornea of the eye. As noted already, we don't need to tell you what it would do to your pack, if it leaked. And even a little bit of it does stink.

If you're going to carry a chemical for the purposes of self-defense, I'd vote in favor of taking a chemical packaged for the purpose of self-defense. The suggestion that you ask a local veterinarian about what to do in case you are approached by a pack of feral dogs is a very good one, too. My suspicion is that the chance of attack is a statistically remote one.

[superman]

Ammonia is a bad idea.
The important thing to remember in case of a dog attack is that you don't have to out run the dog. You just have to out run who ever your hiking with.:banana

[Quoddy]

Reading all the Rambo-like statements really makes me laugh... "I'm bad!...I'm bad!" There are very few really agressive dogs, and almost all of those can be calmed quite easily by someone who understands dogs. Yeah, sure, get aggressive with a really agressive dog. I'd like to be there to watch that.

[Kiyu]

I'm posting this site data primarily because of the information contained within. Don't own any of their products...yet.
The first site will give you all the information you will ever need about pepper spray. The Pepper Spray Information links on the lower left side are unbelievably complete and the Best Pepper Spray for vicious animals gives some tips about how to avoid dog attacks. Don't know how well they work but it is a starting point. It is worth reading all the info on their site.
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/

This one contains a little info about dogs and the lower dose needed because of their limited ability to wash away the spray.
http://www.opamerica.com/product_info.php/products_id/1484

[Fiddleback]

Boys...boys...boys...(and girls)

It doesn't make any difference...ammonia in squirt guns, pepper spray, bear spray...if you doofus's (and I mean that in a nice way:D ) can't hit the target....

It's not the dogs that need spraying...it's the owners that let them run off leash.

Aim where you should and where it counts, at the 'humans.'

FB

[Brrrb Oregon]

Boys...boys...boys...(and girls)

It doesn't make any difference...ammonia in squirt guns, pepper spray, bear spray...if you doofus's (and I mean that in a nice way:D ) can't hit the target....

It's not the dogs that need spraying...it's the owners that let them run off leash.

Aim where you should and where it counts, at the 'humans.'

FB

The owners might need spaying, too, while you're at it, but you have to live to do it.

[Brrrb Oregon]

Reading all the Rambo-like statements really makes me laugh... "I'm bad!...I'm bad!" There are very few really agressive dogs, and almost all of those can be calmed quite easily by someone who understands dogs. Yeah, sure, get aggressive with a really agressive dog. I'd like to be there to watch that.

Seriously, though, there has been an effort by veternarians to educate children about how to avoid being bitten by a dog by understanding how to approach or not approach a strange dog and what to do to minimize the injury you sustain if you are attacked. The website is currently off-line, apparently, but the address is www.NipTheBite.org (http://www.NipTheBite.org).

My husband works in an emergency department, and says he has not yet stitched up a kid who was bitten by an aggressive dog. Those kinds of incidents are actually fairly rare. The story he hears over and over is, "We don't understand it, she's a family dog, great with kids, nothing like this has ever happened...."

Quoddy is right. If you're going to socialize around dogs, you ought to learn about how to socialize with dogs.

[oldfivetango]

I had five black dogs come running after me just north of 19E, I jumped up, grabbed a tree limb, and managed to pull myself up with my pack on. I love dogs, but hate unleashed ones. My knife is handy, and a couple of good loud shouts coupled with aggressive forward motions sometimes does the trick in lieu of anything else. Of course that's with one or two dogs.... Five? Forget about it, I'm a wuss.

you grabbed a tree limb and then one happened?I just hate it when you
leave me hangin':D
Oldfivetango

[fiddlehead]

my initial thought while reading the thread was the same as Elf and that the water pistol is going to leak ammonia all over your gear sooner or later.
Then when reading thru the thread and seeing all these dog lovers and especially black dogs was that in the Phillipines, black dogs are considered the best and friends of mine who related this, told me that they really do taste good. Just forget that it is dog and try it. So, instead of a water pistol, maybe a real gun would be better and you wouldn't have to carry as much food either.
In 17 years of hiking, i have been bitten once, on the hand, on the trail, by a hiker couple's cute dog. in other words, i wouldn't worry about it unless you are a mailman invading the dogs property.

[spittinpigeon]

Quoddy is right. If you're going to socialize around dogs, you ought to learn about how to socialize with dogs.


Uhhhh, what the heck are you talking about? The trail isn't a dog kennel. We're not out there to socialize with canines.
Like someone else said, it's the owner's responsibility, however, contrary to what they suggested, you can't mace the owner and expect the dog to back off, chances are that will incite more violence from the animal.
I've punked down dogs on the trail, it came at a point just north of Pearisburg, two dogs came tearing out of their yard at me, I totally didn't expect it, but after all the dogs between there and Maine, I just snapped.
I screamed my brains out and stepped towards them aggressively. They both ran with their tails between their legs, literally.
That may be an isolated incident where I was just SOO fed up and anger was coming out of my ears. They say animals can sense that kind of stuff.
Your unleashed dog on the trail+me=a possibly injured dog. Keep em' leashed, cuz I'm offering no apologies for your incompetance. My knife is right there, and quite frankly, ever since delivering papers as a kid with stupid neighbors and their stupid dogs, I'm quite fed up with irresponsible dog owners. Don't like it? Good.

[soulrebel]

I have a gun filled with ammonia but it can only be refilled with beer.

[Slosteppin]

Uhhhh, what the heck are you talking about? The trail isn't a dog kennel. We're not out there to socialize with canines.
Like someone else said, it's the owner's responsibility, however, contrary to what they suggested, you can't mace the owner and expect the dog to back off, chances are that will incite more violence from the animal.
I've punked down dogs on the trail, it came at a point just north of Pearisburg, two dogs came tearing out of their yard at me, I totally didn't expect it, but after all the dogs between there and Maine, I just snapped.
I screamed my brains out and stepped towards them aggressively. They both ran with their tails between their legs, literally.
That may be an isolated incident where I was just SOO fed up and anger was coming out of my ears. They say animals can sense that kind of stuff.
Your unleashed dog on the trail+me=a possibly injured dog. Keep em' leashed, cuz I'm offering no apologies for your incompetance. My knife is right there, and quite frankly, ever since delivering papers as a kid with stupid neighbors and their stupid dogs, I'm quite fed up with irresponsible dog owners. Don't like it? Good.

I totally agree. That has been my practice since my teens. If a dog is willing to be friendly then I am too, I like dogs. If 1 or 2 dogs are aggressive I will be more aggressive.
I can accept the probability that I will get bit - but the dog will get more damage.

Slosteppin

[TIDE-HSV]

The assumption made above that the dog always wins is way off base. Throughout all the tangles I've had with dogs over the years, I've been bitten once - by an old English sheepdog. My pepper spray just rolled harmlessly off the hair over his eyes. He got mostly my sweatshirt. Since he seemed friendly up until he jumped up, I've learned to assume the worst about dogs with invisible eyes. Dog problems these days are nothing compared to what they were when I grew up in pre-leash law days. I had a gauntlet of three nasty ones I had to run in the last block on my bike, just to get home every day. Mostly, I handled it with speed, over brick sidewalks made bumpy with tree roots. Occasionally, it took a kick to the head. I also like dogs, but I vote with those above who say negligent owners' dogs deserve zero patience...

[BigwaveDave]

Mowgli, I couldn't tell you about what a dogs tail indicates, usually it all happens very quickly and their tail was down there on the list, you mess with the dogs owner and you can probably expect a reaction. They will protect their owners, its instinct. I have 3 dogs of my own and they couldn't care less about me but my wife is another story. They pick up body language and voice pitch from there owners that in turn signal how you will be veiwed ( threat or friend) I do not advocate in any way shape or form any unsolicited violence against any animal on the trail. Now theres a few 2 legged animals that probably deserve it though. One thing about mace to remember, WIND DIRECTION, as a carrier it was quite common in the heat of battle to mace ones self. Thats when it really got interesting.

[Brrrb Oregon]

Uhhhh, what the heck are you talking about? The trail isn't a dog kennel. We're not out there to socialize with canines.
Like someone else said, it's the owner's responsibility, however, contrary to what they suggested, you can't mace the owner and expect the dog to back off, chances are that will incite more violence from the animal.
I've punked down dogs on the trail, it came at a point just north of Pearisburg, two dogs came tearing out of their yard at me, I totally didn't expect it, but after all the dogs between there and Maine, I just snapped.
I screamed my brains out and stepped towards them aggressively. They both ran with their tails between their legs, literally.
That may be an isolated incident where I was just SOO fed up and anger was coming out of my ears. They say animals can sense that kind of stuff.
Your unleashed dog on the trail+me=a possibly injured dog. Keep em' leashed, cuz I'm offering no apologies for your incompetance. My knife is right there, and quite frankly, ever since delivering papers as a kid with stupid neighbors and their stupid dogs, I'm quite fed up with irresponsible dog owners. Don't like it? Good.

Whether I like it or not is totally beside the point. I don't expect you to have any interest in pleasing me, after all. If we ever meet in person, I'll be surprised. As for the dogs, I don't own one. I don't like meeting loose dogs on the trail, I don't like hiking with a dog on a leash, and I don't want to get a dog and then leave them alone while I go out and about....so I'm not any dog's dream owner.

As for your encounter with the dogs, part of the "nip the bite" program is actually teaching kids to act like predators, and not like prey. Once you act like prey, the dog's instinct kicks in. Ideally, you don't ask even a well-trained dog to resist that. Work with nature, not against it.

Dealing with the owners of out-of-control dogs on the trail is a little like dealing with out-of-control drivers when you're on a bike. If you live to sue them, great. They bought the dog, they can take responsibility for the dog. As for me, I'm willing to do my part to avoid being "dead right."

[middle to middle]

Be agressive, look them in the eyes, I also bike a lot and some dogs lay in waight for you and love the chase. Keep moving away. Stop ! Sit ! No ! commands get results from a "trained" dog. Just water in a good waer pistol works.

[Brrrb Oregon]

Be agressive, look them in the eyes, I also bike a lot and some dogs lay in waight for you and love the chase. Keep moving away. Stop ! Sit ! No ! commands get results from a "trained" dog. Just water in a good waer pistol works.

Actually, the Humane Society suggests that you avoid looking a dog in the eye. They do suggest that you "feed" a dog that is coming at you something that is not you: i.e., put a bike, your pack, your jacket, or anything else inanimate between you and the attacking dog.

The "Nip the Bite" web site is down, but the Humane Society has some tips on its web site, both for how to lower your chances of being bitten by a strange dog and how to keep your dog from biting someone.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/dog_care/stay_dog_bite_free/index.html

Again, I keep hearing from people who work emergency rooms that most of the bites they see are from dogs that were not thought to pose a threat to anybody. Nice dogs can bite. Someone, usually a child, puts themselves in a position where the dog instinctually takes a chomp. So even if you are never around "strange", "mean", or "aggressive" dogs, it pays to give yourself a little canine cultural awareness.

[Panzer1]

I think if you carry ammonia on the trail to use against dogs you must be one sick mf.

Panzer

[TIDE-HSV]

about your seniors... :D

[Uncle Silly]

I think his point is that ammonia, in particular, is a vast overreaction to the problem you're looking to solve. There are lots of other methods, suggested calmly on this thread even, that solve this problem with much (better/more polite/less destructive) results.



You have a very peculiar worldview if you really think all dogs on trails are just out looking for a hiker to bite. Please don't hike anywhere near me: my friends and I (canine and human alike) really don't want you around.

[SunnyWalker]

Tide: were the black labs trying to get to you to lick you or bite you? If they were wagging their tongues did you kind of overeact? At any rate, this is a good reason to use a good hiking staff.

-SunnyWalker

[SunnyWalker]

OK, sorry. For a good staff to beat the dogs with go to:
http:www.trailgeartradingpost.com/ Look for the Trail-Stik hiking staff. This would be a good all round self-defense measure.

-SunnyWalker

[Appalachian Tater]

Ironically, it seems that the well-behaved dogs usually have well-behaved owners who leash them. The aggressive dogs frequently have idiot owners who do not leash them, even when it is required by regulation. After several unpleasant incidents, I began asking the owner of dogs to leash them twice, very friendly the first time, very firmly the second.

My second request is very determined and assertive so that the owner understands that if he or she does not protect me from the dog, the dog will need to be protected from me. This has been a very successful technique.

"Removed for inappropriate content by moderator"

It will be unfortunate if I ever have to injure or kill an animal because of an idiot owner.

[huck]

RUN Forest RUN LOL
Bear mace should work

[TIDE-HSV]

I am an old fart, and, as I said earlier, I grew up pre-leash law, so I don't have to have all these semaphore signals to ascertain a dog's intention. When a dog comes for me full speed, head down, tail down, in a crouch, he's not coming to lick me. And, BTW, the owner was not apologizing for their overactive attempts to lick me. And, irony of all ironies, we were invited to our pastor, Larry's, house these evening, but when we got there, he was in the emergency room. HIS black lab, Bo, a gentle a dog as I've ever seen, put him there. Larry was trying to break up a fight between Bo and Jack, Larry's brother's dog. When he got them separated, he was holding Jack up and Bo made one last lunge and got Larry's right thumb and hand instead. The bite went through to the bone and actually chipped off a piece. Tomorrow, he goes to the hand surgeon to examine for nerve damage, etc. This is just a reminder of the power of a dog's bite. And, black labs are great dogs and any disproportion of misfortunes with them are strictly a factor of their current popularity...

[SunnyWalker]

Tide: yes, that is a grim picture. If the dog was running full tilt at me, etc., ect., I would bang it with my staff and etc. Too bad about your Pastor. Maybe I will see you on the AT. -SunnyWalker Ps. look for another old fart :-)

[middle to middle]

Theyare usually busy chasing deer, or drinking out of the water hole.

[Rhino-lfl]

Removed for inappropriate content by moderator

[Rhino-lfl]

All you people saying to leave the dogs alone are stupid. If a dog attacks or tries to attack it should be killed. You might feel all proud that a dog charged you then backed off cause you charged back or screamed at it, but what if you were a 4 year old? If a dog attacks me, then it will attack a 4 year old, so no point in letting it get away from me to attack someone weaker another day.

http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement
"Removed for inappropriate content by moderator"

[Uncle Silly]

Back on topic please, children. Anyone going to a vet, please inquire about ammonia's effects, whether or not the vet recommends it, and any alternative they might suggest.

[superman]

Using ammonia on a dog is a bad idea as are many of the other ideas in this thread.

[Rhino-lfl]

I just spent some time on different canine forums, and for those of you who would rather get biten then actually harm a smoochy woochy puppy wuppy, they suggest bear spray, not ammonia.

*** were you thinking squirt gun lol.

[leeki pole]

Using ammonia on a dog is a bad idea as are many of the other ideas in this thread.
Yeah, well rabies is invariably fatal when contracted. Not to mention the shots that really do no good. I guess you'll just take your chances and hope the poochie doesn't have any kryponite, right superman?

[Uncle Silly]

I got charged by a Shepherd last night who probably thought he was defending his territory from the interloper. I thought briefly about this thread and the bull that's been thrown around, while I reached around for my missing ammonia squirt gun. I nearly panicked when I found it gone, until I realized that I never carry anything like that anyway. When the dog got about five feet from me, I let loose a loud, commanding "NO" that stopped it in its tracks. It circled around, barking again, and started to charge once more. Another "NO" stopped it again, and by that time the owner got out of the house and called the dog in.

And I realized that I don't need any sprays to defend myself against dogs. My reaction was instinctive; once past the brief urge to panic and get hysterical, I simply stood my ground and let the dog know in no uncertain terms that I, the human, was in charge. If it hadn't listened, then I might have gotten injured a bit before I got my knife out; but had I been on trail, my staff would have already been in my hands when the dog charged.

So to sum up, here are the steps:
1) Don't panic. You'll feel the urge; let it pass.
2) Stand your ground and mentally steel yourself for the encounter.
3) Fight the battle of wills. Use your voice. Be commanding. Be authoritative. Most dogs will respect this.
4) Be prepared to get physical if necessary, but ONLY after all other options are exhausted. You'll do much better in court if you have a bite scar to show cause to injure or kill a dog.

[Uncle Silly]

Yeah, well rabies is invariably fatal when contracted. Not to mention the shots that really do no good. I guess you'll just take your chances and hope the poochie doesn't have any kryponite, right superman?

You can get a rabies vaccination; all known human rabies survivors were vaccinated either before infection or before disease onset (according to the CDC). 55,000 people die each year from rabies, mostly in Africa and Asia. This means you are at a very very very low risk from rabies in this country.

This is something to be aware of and concerned about. Being paranoid is up to you, but I don't personally recommend it. Enjoy your anxiety; I'm going hiking. :)

[Brrrb Oregon]

Yeah, well rabies is invariably fatal when contracted. Not to mention the shots that really do no good. I guess you'll just take your chances and hope the poochie doesn't have any kryponite, right superman?

That is not true. If the shots are administered before symptoms manifest, the rate of rabies infection are extremely low. Because of the chances of infection other than rabies, you should always get medical attention after any animal bites you, anyway.

According to the Humane Society, at least 80% of dog bites come from a dog known to the victim, either at the victim's home or at the home of someone they know.

They say to "never approach a strange dog, especially one who's tied or confined behind a fence or in a car. Don't pet a dog—even your own—without letting him see and sniff you first. Never turn your back to a dog and run away. A dog's natural instinct will be to chase and catch you. Don't disturb a dog while she's sleeping, eating, chewing on a toy, or caring for puppies. Be cautious around strange dogs. Always assume that a dog who doesn't know you may see you as an intruder or a threat." I have a friend who advises that, if you get permission to pet a dog, you offer the dog the back of your hand to sniff (fingers tucked in towards you) while you ask the owner what kind of petting the dog does or does not like.

If you are approached by a dog who may attack you, follow these steps:

Never scream and run.
Remain motionless, hands at your sides, and avoid eye contact with the dog.
Once the dog loses interest in you, slowly back away until he is out of sight.
If the dog does attack, "feed" him your jacket, purse, bicycle, or anything that you can put between yourself and the dog.
If you fall or are knocked to the ground, curl into a ball with your hands over your ears and remain motionless. Try not to scream or roll around."If you are bitten or attacked by a dog, try not to panic.

Immediately wash the wound thoroughly with soap and warm water.
Contact your physician for additional care and advice.
Report the bite to your local animal care and control agency. Tell the animal control official everything you know about the dog, including his owner's name and the address where he lives. If the dog is a stray, tell the animal control official what the dog looks like, where you saw him, whether you've seen him before, and in which direction he went.The most important lessons for children to learn are not to chase or tease dogs they know and to avoid dogs they don't know."

As nearly as I can tell, it is very unusual for a person to be attacked by a dog when they don't know the dog, didn't approach or bother the dog, and didn't behave like prey when the dog approached them.

Considering that you can only carry so much stuff on the trail and that attacks of any kind are so rare, and especially since carrying a squirt bottle of ammonia is more likely to back-fire on you by ruining your stuff than it is to accomplish any protective purpose, I'd say to just get the bear spray. There are dozens of awful things that are far more likely to happen than that you find yourself out of bear spray because you were attacked a second time before you were able to get a pepper-spray refill.

Also, if you are that paranoid about dogs or wildlife attacking you, then resolve to hike in a group. Your very small chance of being attacked will go down even more for each person you add to your group. As far as I know, there are no recorded instances of bears attacking a group of five or more adults.

[leeki pole]

Thanks for all your input. I was simply stating what I did when I ran in very rural areas with many unleashed and stray dogs for those who might have concerns about feral animals. Some folks are not comfortable around dogs. I've had them all my life and have three now. But dog bites are very painful encounters, and even your best dog will get protective, especially around food. Better safe than sorry if you're not a "whisperer." And you certainly don't want to go through the rabies series if you don't have to. I know.

I'm not paranoid, I hike alone, with only a knife for cutting sausage and cheese, not my canine friends. Have a nice day. :D

[Rhino-lfl]

Try looking into this mailman repellant.

http://penncyclebuy.stores.yahoo.net/599-017.html

[rafe]

As nearly as I can tell, it is very unusual for a person to be attacked by a dog when they don't know the dog, didn't approach or bother the dog, and didn't behave like prey when the dog approached them.

Umm, have you hiked extensively on the AT, Brrrb?

Back when I did my long "deep south" section, I had several encounters with vicious dogs, sometimes alone but more often in packs. Almost always at trailheads within sight of rural residences. I didn't know these dogs and did nothing to provoke them. They were there, waiting for me, when I emerged from the woods. I could usually hear their barking, several minutes before the encounter. I learned, in these situations, to pick up and wield a large stick beforehand -- and I almost always had to use it. I managed to escape being bitten, but one other hiker I knew wasn't so lucky.

[Two Speed]

Try looking into this mailman repellant.

http://penncyclebuy.stores.yahoo.net/599-017.htmlThat's dog repellant, not mailman repellant.

Georgia Power issued that crap when I worked for them in the '80's. Usually worked, unless you were dealing with a dog that had been hit with it a few times. Had that experience. The mutt in question went from wanting to lay a good bite on me trying to do a Cujo on me. At that point I started throwing all the tools in my toolbelt on the mutt. Decided to hang onto my last screwdriver after I had beaned him with my 2 D cell flashlight, phillips head screwdriver, 9 inch lineman's pliers, sealing iron and other assorted gizmos. I got away without a bite, but I had one real throw down of a fight on my hands after I hit him with the Halt! Wish I had a video of that, because it'd be worth money on America's Funniest Videos, trust me.

Not recommended as far as I'm concerned, but feel free if you want to.

[Rhino-lfl]

Not recommended as far as I'm concerned, but feel free if you want to.

Can we try it on the lwofer character or what ever his name is?

[Uncle Silly]

Can we try it on the lwofer character or what ever his name is?

if you want to, but i REALLY don't recommend it...

[Rhino-lfl]

Ah, the sounds of a granola hippy crying are hard to take ... I agree.

******* liberals.

[Skidsteer]

Can we try it on the lwofer character or what ever his name is?


if you want to, but i REALLY don't recommend it...


Ah, the sounds of a granola hippy crying are hard to take ... I agree.

******* liberals.

Just exactly who are you calling a granola hippy?

I couldn't decipher it from your spelling.

[Two Speed]

Can we try it on the lwofer character or what ever his name is?Not knowing lwofer or you I couldn't say if that's advisable. The point I'm trying to make is that Halt! doesn't always live up to the advertising. Quel surprise, non?

[MikeG]

i got attacked by a dog in my neighborhood one time a couple years ago, it started running at me and right when it jumped up to bit at my arm i kicked it as hard as i could in the ribs (im a flyhalf in rugby, the guy that does all the kicking) ended up break most of its ribs on the right side but i didnt get a scratch. my neighbors tried to sue me but that didnt fly in court when they found out the dog was running loose in a neighborhood.

[middle to middle]

I'm thinking a tazer duct taped to the end of my hiking pole for the pack dogs out running deer ! That will slow them down.

[Two Speed]

Well, if you could find a tazer/cell phone combo . . . :-? would have to be careful about setting off the tazer while making a call, though.

[Trajectory]

All dogs behave according to the principle of "pack leader." In any meeting between two dogs, confrontation will occur until one establishes his superiority over the other and becomes the pack leader.

The same principle is at work when a dog meets a strange human. Who will be pack leader? Who is the dominent of the two? It's you or him, so you better be prepared to battle for the top. Otherwise, you will be shredded into compliance as the follower, the subservient one.

Given this principle, when you confront a pack of mutts, it is said the best thing to do is to take out the pack leader, and establish yourself as top dog. All other mutts will then follow you, and will keep their teeth to themselves. Question: if a pack of dogs approaches, is the pack leader always the loudest, most aggressive and nearest of the dogs? Or is the leader like a human general, staying back of the pack but directing the show? A decision must be made as to which dog to target and take out first.

[general]

i love hiking with my pit bull. it's really fun to watch her chase the bears.

[AbeHikes]

Was challenged by a Golden Lab mix on the Approach Trail last January. Owners sitting around a fire-ring watching and yelling for the dog. Pointed my poles at it, kept walking, and stared the dog down. Dog lost interest.

Was running in my neighborhood recently and was challenged by a good-sized Chow who "escaped" from a house as I went by. Kept running normally (while watching it) until it was almost on me. Spun around to face it when it got to me, leaned in toward it, and spread my arms to give myself some options. It turned tail and ran back home.

Spent 3 years "catching" dogs for our canine officers at the PD. A dog challenging or attacking you knows exactly what it's doing in dog terms. It doesn't warrant protection or pity. It's not mentally-challenged. I'm not interested in appearing submissive. I'm in charge, not the dog.

[Trajectory]

All dogs behave according to the principle of "pack leader." In any meeting between two dogs, confrontation will occur until one establishes his superiority over the other and becomes the pack leader.

The same principle is at work when a dog meets a strange human. Who will be pack leader? Who is the dominent of the two? It's you or him, so you better be prepared to battle for the top. Otherwise, you will be shredded into compliance as the follower, the subservient one.

Given this principle, when you confront a pack of mutts, it is said the best thing to do is to take out the pack leader, and establish yourself as top dog. All other mutts will then follow you, and will keep their teeth to themselves. Question: if a pack of dogs approaches, is the pack leader always the loudest, most aggressive and nearest of the dogs? Or is the leader like a human general, staying back of the pack but directing the show? A decision must be made as to which dog to target and take out first.

What, no one wants to bite?

[Uncle Silly]

What, no one wants to bite?

My policy is always "bite back". If they get close enough to bite me they'll find out how strong my jaws are. :)

[SunnyWalker]

I was on the Sante Fe Sangre de Cristo trail to Mt. Baldy over the 4th of July. As usual (everytime I hike this trail) 99% of all hikers with dogs did not have them on leash. The trail and area was clearly marked dogs must be leashed. When I meet these dogs and they run at me I don't feel I have to apologize or anything. I just tap or hit or bean them with my hiking staffs. Thats one thing they are good for. It always seems to work.

[minnesotasmith]

Also, if you are that paranoid about dogs or wildlife attacking you, then resolve to hike in a group. Your very small chance of being attacked will go down even more for each person you add to your group. As far as I know, there are no recorded instances of bears attacking a group of five or more adults.

I think the threshold # for minimum group size to never have a bear mauling is nine (if my memory of what I learned from reading "Mark of the Grizzly" is correct).

[Wise Old Owl]

OK to wrap this up - Please do not use ammonia! Stick with Bear or Dog Repellent and Sticks, Avoid hitting dog owners with stick. Do not shoot owner or dog because you will need weeks to spend in court.

[superman]

My policy is always "bite back". If they get close enough to bite me they'll find out how strong my jaws are. :)

Pooch kabobs could answer the question of what to do with the dogs and those pesky town stops for re-supply.:)

[Bare Bear]

I have always favored a 30.06 Winchester Repeater in case of misses and acceptable faster second shot times but there is something to be said for a bigger cartridge, longer distance; say .50 caliber sniper rifle.....................
seriously folks. I had a lot more trouble with dogs on the Florida Trail than on the AT and a swing of the sticks kept them at bay until I walked on by.

[4eyedbuzzard]

... Do not shoot owner or dog because you will need weeks to spend in court.

And then possibly years to spend in prison. :eek:

[trouthunter]

As a dog owner, and former breeder, and as someone who hikes with a dog, I would say this: If a dog threatens me, he has already crossed the line. No different than if a person threatens me, it doesn't matter how much I care about people or dogs, If you attack me, I will have no, and I mean NO mercy on you!
People need to get over their namby pamby super compassionate crap and realize that both people and animals (for the most part) attack those they perceive to be weak!!

[Wise Old Owl]

This thread has indeed run it's course, as mods we do care but because it is repeating itself it about to be well, put to bed, this is urgent, make final replies and we will close it.