do shelters suck or what?

[Jester2000]

the ACLU sucks worse than shelters


:::: nods agreement with LW ::::

Yes, an organization dedicated solely to the defense of the Bill of Rights (including, believe it or not, the Second Amendment) is truly sucky. Nice, though, that they'll defend your right to say that about them. . .

[moxie]

Yes, an organization dedicated solely to the defense of the Bill of Rights (including, believe it or not, the Second Amendment) is truly sucky. Nice, though, that they'll defend your right to say that about them. . .
Right on Jester, some people have little to do but attack things and ideas that are different. If you don't like something don't use it but why attack it if others chose to. Narrow minded thinking have brought our country such things as racial intolarance, discrimination, religious conflict, and now shelter slamming. Just think how easy it is to walk past a shelter and set up a tent or tarp and keeping your opinion to yourself. What is gained by slamming those that choose to use them. :-?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

While I can agree with the stated mission, the ACLU often uses it time and money defending BOR issues that have little impact while ignoring more pressing BOR issues IMO. This, not their stated purpose, is why I feel the ACLU sucks. YMMV

[Darwin again]

Yes, an organization dedicated solely to the defense of the Bill of Rights (including, believe it or not, the Second Amendment) is truly sucky. Nice, though, that they'll defend your right to say that about them. . .

Who needs a stinking Constitution? It's just a piece of paper.

[bfitz]

I support the ACLU. Or rather the existence of the ACLU. Not monetarily, of course. But such groups are a necessary evil. Somebody has to defend the indefensible, to keep the argument real. Of course the constitution would exist without the ACLU.

[Lone Wolf]

But such groups are a necessary evil. Somebody has to defend the indefensible, to keep the argument real. Of course the constitution would exist without the ACLU.

yeah. like the National Man/Boy Love Association. A wonderful group.

[bfitz]

You have a problem with the cited fact? Or do you not consider the ATC's own Data Book to be among "the usual AT resource materials?"

Or do you have a problem with Darrell Maret's rule, which I cited from "the usual AT resource materials" of 1990?

Scroll back through the thread, Darwin, and see where the bad vibes come from and it starts getting heavy. Oh here, let me help you:

Msg #2, L. Wolf: shelters suck. tear them down. build no more.

Msg #7, Neo: i hate shelters

Msg. #46, Fanatic Fringer: They suck I tell ya. They suck.

Msg. #83, matthewski: the answer is: shelters suck.

Msg. #108, L. Wolf: no need to cram into a box with a bunch of other sheeple.

Msg. #109: Enter the Estimable Jack Tarlin, with a relatively innocuous post, attacking only me

Msg. #119, L. Wolf: BS. man made boxes draw the weak

Msg. #120, L. Wolf: i don't give a f ck about hyoh. burn all shelters

Msg. #134: Tarlin again: feel free to put a sock in it.

Msg. #138, Tarlin again: What I've noticed is that role here is to make yourself look like a moron.

Msg. #147, L. Wolf, again: shelters truly suck

Msg. #156, matthewski: suck sucky sucker suckiest sucks like an old roach motel

Msg. #176, L. Wolf again: That "rule" is a buncha BS.

Msg. #190, Tarlin again: Christ, you're an idiot.

Msg. #193, Tarlin again, more gratuituous insults

Msg. #198, Tarlin again. Insult and/or threat, not sure which


------------

Y'all would make Old Benton Mackaye proud, I tell ya.

But y' know what? I'm outta here. Looking back at this list, I realize that WB is a bunch more trouble than it's worth. I'll miss some of you. The rest? Happy trails.

C'mon, you can dish it out pretty good yourself. I know I've been missing out on the fun lately, but I can't imagine coming home at the end of the season and not having you around.

As for shelters, they suck except for when it's raining, or all my friends are there having a party. Oh, and they provide a nice dry place for the registers, our own little paper forum on the trail. Privys however I could do without completely. Shelters themselves don't suck half as bad as shelter nazis.

[Darwin again]

So Jack occasionally brings a little stormy weather to the threads? That's what he does. That's just Jack being Jack. Same with the rest of the assorted rogues who spout here regularly and periodically. Granted, sometimes the discourse isn't for the faint of heart or the thin-skinned, but we all give and get, some of us more than others.

Anyways it's good to have people to tell you when you've taken too many bites out of the chicken leg of stoopid; when you've fallen out of the ridiculous tree and hit every branch on the way down. It keeps the discussion "real" despite the bunched underoos.

No need to storm off like a diva. With friends like the peeps on this board, who needs abusive family members. Shelters still suck.:D Except the really nice ones that still smell like fresh-cut lumber...

[Darwin again]

PS. I was going to add sme nicer things about the people here, but I figured it would just invite mockery.

[mweinstone]

top ten reasons privys suck:
10. because oleofactory overload dosnt allways work.
9. stradeling the neighborhoods excrement nude is damageing psycologicaly.
8.poop snakes and ass spiders not to mention the hole seeking ticfly.
7. because blocking the door open helps so little.
6. look up. its all webs and flywraps. mmmm flywraps........
5. because there unibomer shaks with poop insence.
4. because the sterility of the woods is gaurenteed unless package is opened.
3. because minnesota smith just took a six roller.
2. the holes so small ,.. it touches. oooh gross!
and the number one reason privys suck is,........minnesota smith just took another six roller!

[smokymtnsteve]

yeah. like the National Man/Boy Love Association. A wonderful group.

well don't git over-excited LW...

ACLU also joined in support of Jerry FALWEASEL, dat ole cloest queen

[mweinstone]

the word suck will herein be replaced with the word polysorbate wherever it appears in this thread henceforth to be called , "do shelters poysorbate or what?".

[Alligator]

shelters poisorbate but their a great place to get leied. aloha.

[mrc237]

Recently spent a night at the Chestnut Knob Shelter where some ''genius'' took the pail meant for composting the privy and inserted it inside the shelter where some a-holes used it for trash. It was so full it was overflowing but that didn't stop some hikers that were now piling up and around the sides. I know what you're thinking, why didn't I just pack it out. If I had a jumbo sized trash bag I would have. Myself and another hiker had a discussion about leave no trace but it didn't have any effect on a church group that was staying there. They left all their trash! Its the filthy pig people that make the shelters suck!!

[woodsy]

Bet the people here whining about the AT shelters have spent some time hanging around them. Time to call a ....................
Waaaaaambulance....or was that a .......whiiiiiiiiinbulance!
If you don't like em, keep moving! and quit whinning about them! Thanks
Yours truly,
Woodsy

[Darwin again]

Shelters are a blight on all of humanity.

Aren't shelters the primary locations of violent crimes along the Trail?
I know somebody here has that information. Well?

[smokymtnsteve]

shelters don't kill people ..people kill people.;)

[Skyline]

Right on Jester, some people have little to do but attack things and ideas that are different. If you don't like something don't use it but why attack it if others chose to. Narrow minded thinking have brought our country such things as racial intolarance, discrimination, religious conflict, and now shelter slamming. Just think how easy it is to walk past a shelter and set up a tent or tarp and keeping your opinion to yourself. What is gained by slamming those that choose to use them. :-?

From a hiker point of view I totally agree with you. Just like if you don't like the language on a TV show--turn it off or change the channel and let the rest of us who want to see it have it to ourselves. So, yeah, walk on by the shelter.

But from a volunteer and backcountry management POV, I see validity in a change of policy. Just don't build anymore shelters--for reasons I've listed earlier in this thread.

[mweinstone]

shelters need to be sold for scrap . chipped. and spread over the north pole to deflect sunlight.

[Darwin again]

Shelters are so disgusting even Chuck Norris won't stay in one.

Think about it. Have you ever seen Chuck Norris in a shelter? I thought not. case closed.

[smokymtnsteve]

shelters need to be sold for scrap . chipped. and spread over the north pole to deflect sunlight.

well something needs to be done about the city of North pole AK ,,,whichis right next to Fairbanks Ak,,cause the city of North POLE really sucks,

[Skidsteer]

"Took a 'Six-Roller'?"

Now that's a catch-phrase!

[Footslogger]

On rainy nights shelters suck hikers in. Guess that could be construed to mean that shelters suck ??

'Slogger

[Skyline]

On rainy nights shelters suck hikers in. Guess that could be construed to mean that shelters suck ??

'Slogger

'Cause they're afraid to set their tents up because the tents might get wet. Um, that would be the tent doing its appointed task, so the occupant(s) can sleep out of the rain.

[refreeman]

Shelters are a big part of the AT experience. Anyone that never used shelters never really hiked the AT. Those wanna-be hikers might as well yellow blaze the whole way from Springer to Katahdin. It’s the same thing. So all the fake hikers’ Thru Hikes are ALL NULL AND VOID. :cool:

[Lone Wolf]

shelters are for weenies like yourself

[Jester2000]

shelters are for weenies like yourself


And weenies like me. But I'm starting to come around to everyone else's point of view. But moreso. I've decided that all shelter sucks. No shelters, tents, tarps, or hammocks. Anyone who's not cowboying it is a pathetic wuss.

And I don't just mean while on trail. My understanding is that Lone Wolf, the excoriator of those who would stay in shelters, actually lives in a manmade shelter in Damascus. Pathetic.

[refreeman]

And I don't just mean while on trail. My understanding is that Lone Wolf, the excoriator of those who would stay in shelters, actually lives in a manmade shelter in Damascus. Pathetic.

LOL very very very excellent laugh, thanks Jester2000. Ya know, I believe you're right.
;)

[Darwin again]

What's that shelter in Pa. that's perpetually infested with ticks?
Disgusting Shelter?

[woodsy]

Anyone who's not cowboying it is a pathetic wuss.

And I don't just mean while on trail. My understanding is that Lone Wolf, the excoriator of those who would stay in shelters, actually lives in a manmade shelter in Damascus. Pathetic.

Does this mean that everyone here complaining about shelters is a
hyprocite?:D

[woodsy]

Or maybe a hypocrite:D sorry bout the bad spelling:p

[Nightwalker]

Does this mean that everyone here complaining about shelters is a
hyprocite?:D

Without a doubt.

[Tin Man]

Cost to build a shelter = $4,000
Cost of a steel fire ring = $200
A few rocks in a circle, dry tinder, a piece of birch bark and a match placed at the opening of a shelter = priceless

[Tennessee Viking]

I am a maintainer for the Tennessee trek of the trail. And I love most of my shelters. There are sections where camping is very limited and strict. No campfires and limited number of campers per site.

I admit there a number of shelters in my section I am not to proud of. A number of them are the 3 wall concrete forest service shelters, which I find a bit tacky. But they are needed. There are some sections which are hit so hard by weather that a tent provides no protection from the elements.
Then the shelters in the Smokies are about your only protection from bears.


Then my section has some of the most popular shelters. Overmountain is a converted barn shelter that can sleep quite a number. Mountaineer Falls is one of the newest shelters on trail, has a wash pit, bar table, and waterfall shower (only one temperature though). Then we have some of the most historical shelters too. McQueens Gap shelter is probably the oldest surviving shelter on trail. Roan High Knob shelter is the highest shelter on the trail, and is fully enclosed.

My neighboring Carolina club are the shelter kings. Most of the shelters on their section are totally built by the club itself. Most of them can sleep more than the forest service amount.

My only concern with the shelters is that since the AT has become so popular, a number of the existing forest service shelters need to be replaced

Just early April my section was hit by a late winter storm. We had a number of hikers on top of Roan that crawled into the shelter half frozen. If the shelter wasn't there, the hikers would have froze to death.

But if you are the type that loves to primitive camp the entire trail, all the respect to you.

For litter bug and graffiti hikers, please respect the shelters. Not only are you using the shelter, think of the thousand other hikers coming behind you. Plus, us maintainers have to clean up after you. And we don't get paid.

[Jester2000]

But if you are the type that loves to primitive camp the entire trail, all the respect to you.



Actually, they're just the type that likes to piss and moan.

[Nightwalker]

Actually, they're just the type that likes to piss and moan.

Internet campers? :)

[Jester2000]

Internet campers? :)


Nope. Pissing and moaning isn't limited to the internet.

[mweinstone]

there is a certian sin, that passes itself for beauty. its called the human condition. good morning beautiful shelter folk. time to rise and dine! walk and talk! you know the drool. now wake it dont fake it! i want good vibbs today as hard as it may be for us. lets start with , shelters provide shelter and move thru , trails take you to shelters. go......

id like to thank the windsor furnace shelter privy for long sitting support thru dark times. when it was raining and i was dry . when the smell kept the bears away,....thanks shelter and privy.

[K0OPG]

yes and no. personal opionions may vary. form your own. Isn't amazing how short this thread could have been?

[mweinstone]

more cool is coopdog backwards. . godpooc!

[Nightwalker]

more cool is coopdog backwards.

Loocerom? :cool:

[WalkinHome]

deleted due to brain cramp

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Hmmmm.... no more shelters = Thousands of dollars extra to spend on maintaining trail per shelter. :-?

Why are there still shelters :confused:

[Skyline]

Hmmmm.... no more shelters = $4,000 extra to spend on maintaining trail per shelter. :-?

Why are there still shelters :confused:

Where did that $4,000 figure even come from? Seems very low to me. Especially for some of the more luxurious examples we've been discussing.

Construction materials, transport costs, etc. have been skyrocketing like, um, medical costs. We're in the middle of putting a 2-room addition on the house I thought would cost about $50,000. The lowest bid, after cutting some frills, came in at $105,000. But once unanticipated items are considered I'll be lucky to get by for $125,000.

Even tho some shelter cost is reduced by volunteers doing the work and certain items are sometimes donated, much is not.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Good point, Skyline. $4,000 does seem extremely low.

[Tin Man]

$4,000 is extremely low especially considering chopper time to get the materials in as they tend to do in the north east at least.

[RockyBob]

Where did that $4,000 figure even come from? Seems very low to me. Especially for some of the more luxurious examples we've been discussing.

Construction materials, transport costs, etc. have been skyrocketing like, um, medical costs. We're in the middle of putting a 2-room addition on the house I thought would cost about $50,000. The lowest bid, after cutting some frills, came in at $105,000. But once unanticipated items are considered I'll be lucky to get by for $125,000.

Even tho some shelter cost is reduced by volunteers doing the work and certain items are sometimes donated, much is not.

I'll write the AR and submit it to the ATC. After I add the Engineering costs to the project, $60-$80K would be about right for a shelter.

[Darwin again]

I'll write the AR and submit it to the ATC. After I add the Engineering costs to the project, $60-$80K would be about right for a shelter.

You must "work" for Halliburton.
Or another "contractor.":-?

[Skyline]

I'll write the AR and submit it to the ATC. After I add the Engineering costs to the project, $60-$80K would be about right for a shelter.

It may or may not be paid by the maintaining club, but I know in national parks and national forests exhaustive historical and impact studies must be done before you can do much of anything in the backcountry. This costs a lot of $$$, either paid for by our clubs or by us taxpayers.

This would be true for tentsites as well as shelters but I'm thinking the impact would not be as great with the tentsites so the thickness of the document might be markedly less. And therefore less expensive.

[mweinstone]

how can i put this,.hmmm..if i were ms i would disertate eloquintly. but alass im a butt ass. so here goes my attempt at speaking. one peice of wood. one helo lift. one saw. one man. one lunch. one water. one privy. one table. one bag of morter. one car ride for the volenteers. one post for the shelter sign. one sign. one blue blaze. one toilet paper holder. one toilet seat. one shovel. one strap for helo lifting logs. one red flag for spotting the helo. one radio to spot the helo. one first aid kit for the volenteer workers. one water cooler for the workers. one gas can and gas for one chainsaw. one chainsaw chain tool for tightening one chainsaw. one can of oil for one chainsaw. one raincoat for one worker. one volenteer at pin to give one volenteer worker. one pencil and one peice of paper to make contruction notes and drawings. one drill and one dowel to make one shelter hook. one rope and one pully to make one bear cable. and one cable. and one cable atatchment. and one bow saw to make one shelter trail and one phone to make the shelter project possible. and one dollar to buy one dollars worth of shelter. this is what you could deliver to the site for some money. times the wood and other things times how many we need and some money becomes some more money. the exact amount is precisly, alot.

[Jester2000]

Hmmmm.... no more shelters = Thousands of dollars extra to spend on maintaining trail per shelter. :-?

Why are there still shelters :confused:

See my post on the fallacy regarding transfer of resources.


We're in the middle of putting a 2-room addition on the house I thought would cost about $50,000. The lowest bid, after cutting some frills, came in at $105,000. But once unanticipated items are considered I'll be lucky to get by for $125,000.

Even tho some shelter cost is reduced by volunteers doing the work and certain items are sometimes donated, much is not.

Shelter cost is also reduced by the fact that building codes regarding shelters are, shall we say, less vigorous.

Making arguments based on the cost of shelters is nice in this theoretical world of the interweb. It even works in your own personal world, where the choices you make regarding income are independent from the source of your money. Less beer does, in fact, equal more Jim Beam. But fewer shelters does not necessarily mean more money for other things. Accept it before it destroys you.

[mweinstone]

jester, does fewer shelters mean less sucks?

[mweinstone]

and does more bucks mean more sucks?

[mweinstone]

lets get back to overuseing the word sucks. thats what this threads about. quit talking specifics. more ramble , less bramble.

[emerald]

I think people who post on WhiteBlaze that shelters suck, suck. In fact, I think this thread sucks. What do you all think, if anything, about that?

I spent several hours at Kimmel Lookout and 501 Shelter last evening talking to thru-hikers, section-hikers and from-the-parking-lot hikers about anything that anyone wanted to talk about and none of it sucked, not in the least bit.

Maybe you all ought to go on a hike!:p ;)

[emerald]

Oh, and by the way, stickerbushes suck!:D

[mudhead]

Mosquitos suck.

[emerald]

Oh, and by the way, stickerbushes suck!:D

:-? ... but blackberries have nice flowers and taste good too!:D

[woodsy]

Whiners suck, kinda like blackflies....deerflies....mooseflies and Mudheads mosquitos.

[Johnny Thunder]

Posts that claim their host threads suck...suck by proxy.


This message was brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

Johnny

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Making arguments based on the cost of shelters is nice in this theoretical world of the interweb. It even works in your own personal world, where the choices you make regarding income are independent from the source of your money. Less beer does, in fact, equal more Jim Beam.I've found that by giving up beer and Jim Beam, I have significantly reduced the cost of living (no more fines, court costs, bailbond fees, etc.) :D

[emerald]

Whiners suck, kinda like blackflies....deerflies....mooseflies and Mudheads mosquitos.

Exactly, my friend, maybe a few whine their way all the way to Katahdin, but they sure are a PIA for the rest who are headed there!:rolleyes: :-? Maybe those whiners ought to just go off in the woods 100 yards and tell their spousal units about it on their cell phones.:D

[mweinstone]

this post could go either way. i could be on the end of the 17th or the top of the 18th page. wow. thats alot to talk about. here at the end of the 17th page we find bitterness. and loathing. solom solom lothing. what does lothing mean please? ill take my answer off the air. here we see the stupendous waste of man. here on the web. this dredded dratty, nappy ol web. we are in shame. and defeat. we stink. we suck. we should be doing anything but this. i say,.......BUTT THIS! im all in on the do shelters suck thread. its not about suckyness factors anymore. we lost interest in suck probubility charts and sub atomic suckyness theory. no longer is our bell rang by mere suckyness of shelters or words like suck when there abused to death. no no no. we need to attack the people. then the world. the universe follows naturaly. untill finally in all out suck war,... we pit our gods against each other and make them duke it out. we are fighters. as long as we fight, we will be wounded. as long as we heal, we will need shelters. they are for war and war only. you fight and tear at our very collective souls and bodys with your evil shelters. no longer will i stand by and watch as bro................................fbi warning............dont listen to matt...............that is all......................dialtone................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........

[Skidsteer]

(shelters still suck)

[Lone Wolf]

(shelters still suck)

they're a blight on the AT

[smokymtnsteve]

the AT is a blight ....blue blazes or better yet no blazes

psuedo-wilderness..

to boldy go where others with really cool gear and guidebooks have gone before.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

How about we build no shelters and we use the extra money to add escalators up all the mountains?

[emerald]

this post could go either way. i could be on the end of the 17th or the top of the 18th page. wow. thats alot to talk about. here at the end of the 17th page we find bitterness. and loathing. solom solom lothing. what does lothing mean please? ill take my answer off the air. here we see the stupendous waste of man. here on the web. this dredded dratty, nappy ol web. we are in shame. and defeat. we stink. we suck. we should be doing anything but this. i say,.......BUTT THIS! im all in on the do shelters suck thread. its not about suckyness factors anymore. we lost interest in suck probubility charts and sub atomic suckyness theory. no longer is our bell rang by mere suckyness of shelters or words like suck when there abused to death. no no no. we need to attack the people. then the world. the universe follows naturaly. untill finally in all out suck war,... we pit our gods against each other and make them duke it out. we are fighters. as long as we fight, we will be wounded. as long as we heal, we will need shelters. they are for war and war only. you fight and tear at our very collective souls and bodys with your evil shelters. no longer will i stand by and watch as bro................................fbi warning............dont listen to matt...............that is all......................dialtone................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........

I hate to say it, but even you aren't talking sense any more. I thought you were a great supporter of The Green Diamond. One of the greatest assets of The Green Diamond is it's shelter system.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, maybe you should just do your hiking in The Garden State and don't come around a certain pavillion or The Greatest Mountain south of Katahdin again if you persist in spewing such filth!:D

[emerald]

How about we build no shelters and we use the extra money to add escalators up all the mountains?

Wonderful idea! Will WhiteBlaze be supplying people to pick the pebbles out of them?:rolleyes: ;)

[Lone Wolf]

I hate to say it, but even you aren't talking sense any more. I thought you were a great supporter of The Green Diamond. One of the greatest assets of The Green Diamond is it's shelter system.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, maybe you should just do your hiking in The Garden State and don't come around a certain pavillion or The Greatest Mountain south of Katahdin again if you persist in spewing such filth!:D

what's the green diamond and greatest mt. south of katahdin

[emerald]

what's the green diamond and greatest mt. south of katahdin

Man, for someone who's supposed to know so much, you sure can come across as clueless.:rolleyes: ;) Obviously, I'm talking about Berks County, Pennsylvania and The Pinnacle (I need one of those trademark or registered thingys here)!:D

[Lone Wolf]

the pinnacle ain't all that. neither is katahdin. there are much nicer and less accesible mtns. on the AT

[emerald]

the pinnacle ain't all that. neither is katahdin. there are much nicer and less accesible mtns. on the AT

Actually, I like the north lookout at Hawk Mountain Sanctuary better, but some people can't stand to pay to hike a great blue-blaze, so, as you probably realize, I'm being somewhat sarcastic.:rolleyes:

Please feel free to give me your favorites and I'm not being sarcastic in the least bit with my request.:)

[mweinstone]

helter shelter

[mweinstone]

shades of grey yelps from under dinos tail. not to be released anytime soon.there is no green diamond wolf. i never heard of it so it is made up.

[emerald]

shades of grey yelps from under dinos tail. not to be released anytime soon. there is no green diamond wolf. i never heard of it so it is made up.

Not so! That was mweinstone yelping. Dino tails reach Philly, but not The Green Diamond -- at least not where I'm located!

One more comment about The Green Diamond being made up and you'll force me to post more links than even you in your wildest imagination can imagine imagining. I'll make your brain hurt, get me?;)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

::: Dino peeks under tail to be sure that is Shades of Gray underneath :::

[emerald]

::: Dino peeks under tail to be sure that is Shades of Gray underneath :::

And? You saw nothing but mweinstone, didn't you?:p :eek:

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

::: Dino peeks under tail again. Shades of Gary is still there - with a wireless computer. Dinos never torture their captives :::

[emerald]

::: Dino peeks under tail again. Shades of Gary is still there - with a wireless computer. Dinos never torture their captives :::

Okay, you're claiming I'm there because you see Shades of Gary, I'm claiming you can't see me because I'm Shades of Gray who's invisible. What exactly is the purpose of this captivity, protection from abuse perhaps?

:-? We might be able to negotiate a settlement here. I'm tired and have a headache. Besides, I need to get up early tomorrow.:o

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

::: dino slips BA insulated air core and down quilt under tail with some warm milk & tylenol :::

[emerald]

::: dino slips BA insulated air core and down quilt under tail with some warm milk & tylenol :::

Shades of Gary finds your offer of shelter generous and comfortable. Thank you and good night.:cool:

[mweinstone]

dinosaurus has her warm bedtime drink, farts softly and sleeps.

[Nightwalker]

dinosaurus has her warm bedtime drink, farts softly and sleeps.

Phhhhhhht, all over SOG...

:eek:

[emerald]

dinosaurus has her warm bedtime drink, farts softly and sleeps

while Shades of Gray falls asleep to the aroma of fir boughs and the cry of the loon somewhere in The Green Diamond, far from Tennessee.:D

[Tin Man]

:-? ... but blackberries have nice flowers and taste good too!:D

Blackberries suck except when crushed and all the emails spill out. Emails tastes awful though, especially on the trail. Pass the blackberry crushing stone please (or do Dino's stomp on blackberries?)

[mweinstone]

the list of whiteblazers comming to wonders say goodby party at marekesh tommorow night grows. me cammo panzer and wify jester wonder teama and maby not bags of tricks cause hes down at partnership non sucky shelter. meanwhile on the non suck side of things, its another day that im closer to taking over the known art world. once in my possesion, i will crush it and drink it. then i will pee out a new art world. then i will rest. then i will wake angry and hungry and will devour most things in a fit of angryhunger. what is angryhunger you ask? its when you are in the woods an unplanned night without food and when you finally reach food, well, its not pritty.with these and other rambleings i bid you well. what i do now, i do for all asbestose and lead haters. goodby cruel world of perfect health!

[emerald]

Blackberries suck except when crushed and all the emails spill out. Emails taste awful though, especially on the trail. Pass the blackberry crushing stone please (or do Dino's stomp on blackberries?)

I'd never drink blackberry juice with emails in it and I can't see going to the trouble of crushing them either.:confused: Just what color juice is produced by the blackberries to which you refer?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

while Shades of Gray falls asleep to the aroma of fir boughs and the cry of the loon somewhere in The Green Diamond, far from Tennessee.:D::: Dino peeks under tail just to be absolutely sure SOG survived the night. He and LW are trying to build a fire under the dino tail. Miscreants :::

[emerald]

::: Dino peeks under tail just to be absolutely sure SOG survived the night. He and LW are trying to build a fire under the dino tail. Miscreants :::

I don't know who this Gary dude is, but he seems to have L. Wolf's bowels in an uproar elsewhere. Maybe they are trying to drive one another from the shelter of your tail.

I slept fine here last night as I always do in The Green Diamond. The part about falling asleep while dreaming of smells and sounds one might be apt to encounter farther north of here was just something I made up. Actually, I slept like a rock and woke up without a headache.

[mweinstone]

shelter weeny is spelled , how?

[Lone Wolf]

shelter weeny is spelled , how?

it's spelled, Shades of Gray

[emerald]

shelter weeny is spelled , how?

Shelter wienie or weenie: a weiner prepared over a fire built near but not involving a shelter.:D

[emerald]

it's spelled, Shades of Gray

Are you running a spell checker or just running off at the mouth?:D

[1n the Sun]

worse than locker rooms...ewww....

it would have to be raining golf ball sized hail to make me stay in one...

[mweinstone]

to make your own shelter smell at home you will need: half dozen ripe thruhikers. unwashed. 4 gallons of glop thats been in the sun for a while. spill fuels of various types . rub with esbit tablet untill well coated. place in solar oven and bake while raining. allow to cool on outhouse bench and searve with garnish of used moleskin. leftovers can be used to season surrounding ground. variations: add stiff soc exstract.toss with food bag resin and enjoy!

[Ender]

That's pretty much on the money.

[adagio]

It's comments such as this that make me wish we could just get rid of all the shelters, then maybe just the real backpackers would be out there. I wonder if you know how much volunteer work goes into maintaining the AT and its shelters. I really have no patience with people who are always asking for more and are never satisfied. There was a time when hiking the AT had a lot to do with self-reliance.

[mweinstone]

adagio is my new favorite. hes upfor the ms award for best new poster!

[Mags]

the real backpackers would be out there.


Gotta watch out for those fake backpackers. Carrying gear, while walking, with a pack? Not neccessarily a real backpacker. :p

Mags..fake backpacker since 1996...

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

::: Dino looks in mirror to see if she is real or fake. :::

[RockyBob]

You must "work" for Halliburton.
Or another "contractor.":-?

Nope, I turned Haliburton down. Wouldn't pay enough money.

[Jester2000]

It's comments such as this that make me wish we could just get rid of all the shelters, then maybe just the real backpackers would be out there. I wonder if you know how much volunteer work goes into maintaining the AT and its shelters. I really have no patience with people who are always asking for more and are never satisfied. There was a time when hiking the AT had a lot to do with self-reliance.

It's posts like this that make me wish we could get rid of the trail, then maybe only true woodsmen, with map and compass skills, would be out there.

[smokymtnsteve]

It's posts like this that make me wish we could get rid of the trail, then maybe only true woodsmen, with map and compass skills, would be out there.


map and compasses is fer sissys...REAL woodmen jist look to the sun and stars to find thar way...maps and compasses not allowed for REAL woodsmen.

[Jester2000]

map and compasses is fer sissys...REAL woodmen jist look to the sun and stars to find thar way...maps and compasses not allowed for REAL woodsmen.

Nah, REAL woodsmen blind themselves so as not to take advantage of the sun and stars, as weaker men might do. Then they sense magnetic north using the iron in their blood.

[refreeman]

Adagio why do you even hike the AT? Go hike the Rockies if you are so great.

Or are you the type of person that swims in the kiddy pool and complains about how shallow it is. Sound like the AT just isn’t for you, go swim in the deep end of the ocean. Bye-bye.
----------------
Shelters are a big part of the AT experience. Anyone that never used shelters never really hiked the AT. Those wanna-be hikers might as well yellow blaze the whole way from Springer to Katahdin. It’s the same thing.

[STEVEM]

Shelters suck, trash sucks, Matthews spelling and grammar sucks, but I can't think of anything that sucks more than Paris Hilton.

[mweinstone]

my spelling is wonderfull and shows charicture.

[Heater]

Shelters suck, trash sucks, Matthews spelling and grammar sucks, but I can't think of anything that sucks more than Paris Hilton.

GW bush...

[Heater]

my spelling is wonderfull and shows charicture.

You misspelled caricature. Are you a cartoon character? That's cool! :cool:

If that is is your MO, so be it. It has been VERY successful so far. Just don't put down others down for being less obtuse...

:)

[Panzer1]

to make your own shelter smell at home you will need: half dozen ripe thruhikers. unwashed. 4 gallons of glop thats been in the sun for a while. spill fuels of various types . rub with esbit tablet untill well coated. place in solar oven and bake while raining. allow to cool on outhouse bench and searve with garnish of used moleskin. leftovers can be used to season surrounding ground. variations: add stiff soc exstract.toss with food bag resin and enjoy!


Hay Matty, I just got a great idea for you. You should build a replica of a AT shelter in your living room complete with bunk beds, a picnic table and a fire ring in front of it. What do you thing of that idea.

Panzer

Ps you'll need a tent platform too for visiters.

[superman]

Maybe the problem with shelters is in the name "shelter." How would it be if we called them "Dog Kennels" or "Mice Ranches?"

[StarLyte]

Hay Matty, I just got a great idea for you. You should build a replica of a AT shelter in your living room complete with bunk beds, a picnic table and a fire ring in front of it. What do you thing of that idea.


There is one in the backyard of "Ishmael", Bruce Dunlavy's back yard; he owns a very beautiful home on the side of a mountain in Mechanicsburg. Earl stayed in the shelter himself. Ishmael also keeps a register there...many of you from this website were in that register :rolleyes: Y'all know who you are.

If you're thru-hiking, and feel lucky, you might see Ishmael at the ATC Boiling Springs office...

[Nean]

There is one in the backyard of "Ishmael", Bruce Dunlavy's back yard; he owns a very beautiful home on the side of a mountain in Mechanicsburg. Earl stayed in the shelter himself. Ishmael also keeps a register there...many of you from this website were in that register Y'all know who you are.

If you're thru-hiking, and feel lucky, you might see Ishmael at the ATC Boiling Springs office...

Stayed in the house myself:o

As for shelters.....I can take em or leave em: its just the AT.:D ;) :D

[The Old Fhart]

Also stayed at the house once which is truly Bruce's masterpiece. The shelter out back looks just like one you'd see on the trail but a lot cleaner!

[camojack]

There is one in the backyard of "Ishmael", Bruce Dunlavy's back yard; he owns a very beautiful home on the side of a mountain in Mechanicsburg. Earl stayed in the shelter himself. Ishmael also keeps a register there...many of you from this website were in that register :rolleyes: Y'all know who you are.

I've never stayed at his shelter in PA...just one that he built on the Big Island. :banana

[mweinstone]

less shelters , more bacon!

[Dances with Mice]

to lighten everyones load, shouldnt the shelters be stocked with the things everyone carrys but seldom uses? duct tape,needle and thread,mirror etc. and to save everyone battery life, why cant the shelters have a 10$ solar light like the kind used to light driveways and gardens. were talking about a lamp so dim it would never disturb the animals. and why not have a barrel water collection system for washing and dry spells? it could be bug free and safe all with a drum a hose a tap and a drainspout.cant the shelters have anything in them? or would the first aholes destroy and litter it? ive allways been for tareing down these poop houses, but if not, fix them up and try to get respect for them. more caretakers maby.Matt - I wonder if the maintainers of the shelters you’ve used understand your feelings about their shelters. Do they understand your frustration, your unhappiness, your yearning for something fresh. If you shared that with them they would then be in a position to meet your shelter needs. Information is key here, Matt. You must share your feelings, your doubts, and your frustrations so that the current shelter maintainers can try to meet your needs. This also gives them the information they need to decide whether your current needs are something they feel they want to meet. Perhaps they won't care about losing you as a shelter user if they feel your needs are something they can't, or don't want, to meet.

This is a hard thing to do but have you considered that your current feelings about shelters have more to do with your own personal angst than the shelter facilities? Once there must have been something very appealing to you about them, something very useful and personally satisfying for you to become a shelter user in the first place.

Unless you're the type of person who acts on a whim. Looking back, do you think you were rash and perhaps you'd not considered very carefully your first use of shelters? Did you act on surface feelings alone about the appearance of the shelters and attributed to them characteristics they didn't possess because their physical appearance entranced you? But now you're feeling bored, would like something new and stimulating in your life and don't know how to find that for yourself so you're looking for some thing to do that for you, sure that the newness will be what can satisfy you.

Consider that it's easy to cast blame on shelters as having never met your needs. It's easier to blame the shelters for being faulty or not up to your current standards than it is to consider your own motivations and the reasons for your expectations. It's also easy to think having a new shelter or shelter facilities will solve all your needs because now when you look at trail shelters all you see are negative attributes.

Just sayin'

[Lone Wolf]

Maybe the problem with shelters is in the name "shelter." How would it be if we called them "Dog Kennels" or "Mice Ranches?"

or pig stys or sheeple pens

[StarLyte]

I've never stayed at his shelter in PA...just one that he built on the Big Island. :banana

you bite !

[mweinstone]

theres a difference between the fact that shelters are being used and that their wrong. they impact the trail and hiking negetivly. not when they were first built. only after our sociaty proved it can only abuse them and they can only hurt the trail. its not compicated. shelters suck. no what about it. sorry ray. friend.

[camojack]

you bite !

Perhaps...but you still love me. :p

[refreeman]

Mweinstone,

Everything has pros and cons. Tents and hammocks negatively impact the trail. For example, tents accelerate erosion and hammocks hurt trees. Shelters pros vastly outweigh their cons. Furthermore, because shelters consolidate the impact of trail use their net effect significantly minimizes any degradation thereby efficiently preserving the trail.

It only takes a moment to see the errors in your thoughts mweinstone. For you to have not noticed them raises the question, Are you one of L Wolf’s sheeple, blindly following his foolishness?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

This tree-hugger uses tree-huggers to hang hammocks - no damage.
::: Indignant dino sticks nose in air and glares sideways at Refreeman trying to decide if his feet are clean enough for toe-biting ::::

[peanuts]

go get him, dino!! he needs his toes bit!!!!

[mweinstone]

listen to me. the shelter pros you claim, would not matter if shelters werent there. shelters only change the body of hikers on trail to an unskilled bunch of nature ruiners. were not talking compared dameges as they relate to different methods. were talking about different methods causeing dramatic and negitively impacting changes to the body of hikers. inviting a mob of fools all cause they dont need to know the boy scout basics of food clothing and shelter. now you listen to me greenhorn,..i do support shelters maintanance as they remain used. i honor the caretakers of time. and at least one was my friend. any trail work is trailwork. shelters to roadheads. i support this work. but i reject the decisions to invade the trail with shelters in our times. this war is wrong and were looseing. were looseing control of firepits and privys and surrounding trees and erotion and trash and water purity. the shelter troops should be re deployed at home. on the trail. teaching newbys and patroling trash at first. we must close our borders and dissallow the casual overnight pig pens. some sort of action must be taken . the next stage if left unchecked, is crime. first decline of conditions, then crim, then an exodus of all skilled hikers to other trails. other trails witch will have survived all because they were tough, rough and hard and without such shelters and with no blazes. these are the trails set for survival. ours is slated for defeat. you must listen to the winds of change. arent their any older maintainers who will agree? hillwalker i ask for your valued imput my friend.

[Skidsteer]

listen to me. the shelter pros you claim, would not matter if shelters werent there. shelters only change the body of hikers on trail to an unskilled bunch of nature ruiners. were not talking compared dameges as they relate to different methods. were talking about different methods causeing dramatic and negitively impacting changes to the body of hikers. inviting a mob of fools all cause they dont need to know the boy scout basics of food clothing and shelter. now you listen to me greenhorn,..i do support shelters maintanance as they remain used. i honor the caretakers of time. and at least one was my friend. any trail work is trailwork. shelters to roadheads. i support this work. but i reject the decisions to invade the trail with shelters in our times. this war is wrong and were looseing. were looseing control of firepits and privys and surrounding trees and erotion and trash and water purity. the shelter troops should be re deployed at home. on the trail. teaching newbys and patroling trash at first. we must close our borders and dissallow the casual overnight pig pens. some sort of action must be taken . the next stage if left unchecked, is crime. first decline of conditions, then crim, then an exodus of all skilled hikers to other trails. other trails witch will have survived all because they were tough, rough and hard and without such shelters and with no blazes. these are the trails set for survival. ours is slated for defeat. you must listen to the winds of change. arent their any older maintainers who will agree? hillwalker i ask for your valued imput my friend.

You nailed it.

At least I'm pretty sure you nailed it.

I think.

[Dances with Mice]

You nailed it...Yeah.

Why didn't he say that in the first place?

[mweinstone]

im an ass is why. that, and someone told me i had to be controversial if i wanted to out shine ms. my ms. the hiker created by me. in my sub sewer lex lutherlike lair. the very minnesota smith i created out of parts left over from wyoming skateborders construction. that same smith known to all the world of this website over.

[mweinstone]

not a single shelter be burned either. airlift each one to a town . off trail in a park. with cops patroling the street within sight. like the fake shelter in damascus. use them on asphalt. not in the mountains. not these mountains anymore. im sorry but its the new age we have made dictating now. and leave blazes in towns and roadwalks too. let them be disused in the mountains. let the trails level of difficulty rise slowly as to permit the unskilled to be forced tword learning or not.

[mweinstone]

everyone knows dances is the real genius behind minnesota smiths conquering of the known hiking galaxsy. he used to work in my lair but tryed to free my prisoner scientists from iraque i keep under lock and key. oh, they have everything they want. and they like it here. they understand i cant let them go till the time machine is washed and waxed and the new dishwasher in it works.

[Paul Bunyan]

To get this discussion back on track, i kinda agree with some others. Putting more stuff in shelters would just make it more clutter. Mweinstone, if you think there should be more maintainers, why don't you volunteer?

But on the idea that shelters cause enviromental problems, look at the Smokies. They have utilized it so that the only impact is at that one shelter area. What i see as the real impact problem is every idiot setting up their tent (or hammock) on evry nice viewpoint, and then making a fire. If you want to minimize impact, ban firemaking.

[Lone Wolf]

Mweinstone,

Everything has pros and cons. Tents and hammocks negatively impact the trail. For example, tents accelerate erosion and hammocks hurt trees. Shelters pros vastly outweigh their cons. Furthermore, because shelters consolidate the impact of trail use their net effect significantly minimizes any degradation thereby efficiently preserving the trail.

It only takes a moment to see the errors in your thoughts mweinstone. For you to have not noticed them raises the question, Are you one of L Wolf’s sheeple, blindly following his foolishness?

you be the fool

[mweinstone]

i asked the question, do they need more maintainers i think.i dont recomend anything but blind reduction. first. remove shelters close to each other. slowly over two or three seasons, get to a point where they are all 20 miles apart. within five years from that, remove the ones near other optional sourses of shelter. ones that are near roads and towns. then leave some isolated ones in places like the smokeys where the world comes in droves and let about 95 % of the trail go unsheltered. at the same time inishiate a deblazing. start with easy to navigate sections and progress over a period of years to a point where blazes occure only in the absolute bare nessesity of navigation and let the trail books and the footpath and compass guide. i feel like ben franklin trying to raise support to leave mother england. this shelter thing means war in the end. caretakers who are elderly and young ones too will not let go. there will be much disgruntlment. but in the end, our trail must and will be turned into something much more akin to its tripple crown brothers .campers and backpackers will be segregated.