View Full Version : Southern Bald Questions
wilconow
06-07-2007, 10:00
How come they are bald and how do they stay that way?
I know there are explanations in guidebooks, but I thought I would throw this out there...
It's genetic.
Honestly, I'm not sure myself... I'm also curious to hear. I was under the impression that some of it was due to farming, and that some balds became non-balds over time, while others were due to more natural reasons (though what that means is beyond my realm of knowledge). Maybe certain vegitation, grasses on the balds, crowd out other plant species, making the growning conditions bad for anything but themselves. Just a guess...
Swiss Roll
06-07-2007, 10:38
Max Patch was cleared by a farmer long ago for grazing his animals. Now the forest service keeps it bald by mowing and fires. Don't know about the others.
bulldog49
06-07-2007, 15:42
I believe all the balds are kept bald by the Forest Service mowing them. In their natural state they would become forested. None of the peaks are above treeline at that latitude.
Most logical theory I've read about them is they originally became bald as the result of natural fires and the local Indian Tribes kept them clear by periodical burning and used them for religious purposes. When European settlers came to the area they kept them clear and used them for grazing farm animals.
I believe all the balds are kept bald by the Forest Service mowing them.
There are dozens of "balds" in the Southern Appalachians that have reverted to forest because the FS & NPS don't have the staff or the funding to manage them as balds. Tis a shame. Two that come to mind immediately are Newton Bald (on the MST & BMT in the Smokies) and Tusquittee Bald in the Nantahala NF off of the Fires Creek Rim Trail (and the Chunky Gal Trail).
The Solemates
06-07-2007, 17:55
Max Patch was cleared by a farmer long ago for grazing his animals. Now the forest service keeps it bald by mowing and fires. Don't know about the others.
This is precisely the reason.
Jan LiteShoe
06-07-2007, 18:41
There are dozens of "balds" in the Southern Appalachians that have reverted to forest because the FS & NPS don't have the staff or the funding to manage them as balds. Tis a shame. Two that come to mind immediately are Newton Bald (on the MST & BMT in the Smokies) and Tusquittee Bald in the Nantahala NF off of the Fires Creek Rim Trail (and the Chunky Gal Trail).
I know out of Carter Gap north the Park Service arranges with a fellow to keep his longhorn cattle up there grazing down the angelica and brush. I had a standoff with a bull up there. He was hanging out on the trail. I waited for him to shift. He stared. I stared back. He won; I eventually cut down through the brush and went past below him.
:):)
briarpatch
06-07-2007, 20:45
<insert joke about Dances with Mice's haircut and juggling flaming torches here>
Oh, you meant the bare mountaintops.
Nevermind.
Moon Monster
06-08-2007, 15:03
There are two types of southern balds--grassy and heath (think laurel and rhodo)--and the reasons each exist are possibly different.
Grassy balds do not share with each other much of any topology, climate, or soil-based reasons for becoming or remaining bald. So, the origin of most if not all of them is probably not natural. At the beginning of the 20th century there were over 70 grassy balds. There may have been many more since many local place names (some even on the AT) include the word "bald" when no naturalist, even the early ones arriving in 19th century, has ever noted them as actually being so.
Most, if not all, grassy balds were used by livestock owners for grazing into the 20th century. But, a few may still have pre-dated European settlers and could have been opened by natives or by climate. For example, some could have been opened by wide changes of temperature and high winds 20,000 years ago. They could have been maintained prior to the Europeans' arrival by fires, natives, and herds of now extirpated mega-fauna like elk or bison.
Bottom line on grassy balds, though, is that the origins of some of them are still in debate no matter what someone on one side of the debate tells you.
The heath balds (at least in GSMNP) do share common soil types that appear to easily pre-date permanent-Europeans. They probably were naturally caused.
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_64865.htm
Heath balds and grassy balds mix together on many mountains.
I've seen predictions that natural tree-line would be around 7,000-8,000 ft. at the latitudes and climates of TN and NC.
Origionally balds were created and maintained by Deer populations. The balds are the first and last place that the Sun strikes during the day. The deer recive warmth and eat what is available, including tree saplings. Eventually the trees are not replaced resulting in a "bald". In the post european settlement period the equation has changed firearms and ATV's, resulting in the virtual elimenation of the deer population. Hunters have more "rights" to "enjoy" the deer population than Hikers do. The Balds are presently maintained by the forest service through mowing.
To truly restore the Balds to a natural state, the deer need to be protected. This could be done through the banning of hunting in areas where the forest service mows a Bald. This would result in Hikers enjoying the deer, The forest could use the mowing funds elswhere and there would be more deer on the protcted perimiter.
RockyBob
06-09-2007, 09:43
Landing strips for UFO's
The balds in the Shining Rock Wilderness are different, I believe. What I've read about that area indicates that they occurred because of heavy logging that stripped the mtns in the early 1900's, then several huge forest fires over several decades. This left the soil so acidic that very little could grow.....have never made it up to the mtns during blueberry season, but know that several are covered with blueberry bushes (which presumably like acidic soil), and make for some good eating! I assume if this happened there, that it could have happened elsewhere?
.....have never made it up to the mtns during blueberry season, but know that several are covered with blueberry bushes (which presumably like acidic soil), and make for some good eating! ...Steve, you must go this year for the blueberries.:sunHikers have the best pickins cause the casual blueberry picker stays close to the parking lot. Don't forget the pancake mix!
mweinstone
06-09-2007, 11:39
god...................
TIDE-HSV
06-09-2007, 15:10
Of how fast forest succession can take place is Bob Stratton Bald on the border of Joyce Kilmer and Slickrock. Half of the bald is in the Wilderness Area and can't be mowed, so it has almost filled in during the last 25 years or so. The USFS mows the other half, which has remained as a bald. When I first started hiking the Smokies 35 years ago, there were extensive meadows in front of both Icewater and Spence Field shelters, but no more. The original settlers referred to heath balds as "slicks." As said above, the balds predate the white settlers and were maintained by the Indians as ceremonial sites by fire.
Edit: BTW, the deer are not the answer. Deer are border creatures and eat browse, which is almost nonexistent in mature forests. It's really true that there are more deer now than in colonial times. I find myself cursing them on a regular basis as they chomp up expensive azaleas, etc. Deer can help maintain a bald, once established, by browsing on the re-colonizing shrubs, but they are physically incapapble of creating a bald on their own...
Steve, you must go this year for the blueberries.:sunHikers have the best pickins cause the casual blueberry picker stays close to the parking lot. Don't forget the pancake mix!
yep - talked with my hiking buddy about this today - we'd been planning on taking a week to do some time on the AT - just may go to shining rock instead!
smokymtnsteve
06-10-2007, 02:02
actually thier is an overpopulation of deer inthe southern Appalachians, esp inthe smokies...we need to harvest some of them.
The Deer killers claim that they do the deer a favor by thinning them out. These deer are in pitiful shape starving barely able to stand due to starvation. If it wasn't for the deer killers the deer would continue to starve and be in pain.
IF THIS IS TRUE WHY DOES THE FOREST SERVICE NEED TO SPEND FUNDS TO MOW THE BALDS!
These killers claim that that they are feeding thier starving families. They spend tens of thousounds on an RV to camp in, Thousounds more for the ATV's "one per hunter" (These ATV's rip up the AT, "They can tear up the AT To prevent the deer from starving and to feed thier families). These hunters spend thousonds on guns and other hunting gear.
Lone Wolf
06-10-2007, 07:18
The Deer killers claim that they do the deer a favor by thinning them out. These deer are in pitiful shape starving barely able to stand due to starvation. If it wasn't for the deer killers the deer would continue to starve and be in pain.
IF THIS IS TRUE WHY DOES THE FOREST SERVICE NEED TO SPEND FUNDS TO MOW THE BALDS!
These killers claim that that they are feeding thier starving families. They spend tens of thousounds on an RV to camp in, Thousounds more for the ATV's "one per hunter" (These ATV's rip up the AT, "They can tear up the AT To prevent the deer from starving and to feed thier families). These hunters spend thousonds on guns and other hunting gear.
Ted Nugent totally agrees!
yep - talked with my hiking buddy about this today - we'd been planning on taking a week to do some time on the AT - just may go to shining rock instead!Second week in August till nearly the end of September is the best window. Well worth it.:sun
The only problem with deer in the southeast is that there are too many of them. A couple of weeks ago I saw a road kill deer less than a mile south of the Atlanta airport( Hwy 314 in College Park for those familiar with the area).
During my travels in the southern and eastern parts of Georgia, I see more dead deer along the roads than dead possums.
Red Ranger
Second week in August till nearly the end of September is the best window. Well worth it.:sun
thanks! I just got back from a week at Boy Scout camp - we took the troop to Rainey Mtn, near Clayton....was going to ask about timing when I got back - so the blueberries are ripe mid-August through late sept? school's already started by then - we may take our week on the AT, too!
The Deer killers claim that they do the deer a favor by thinning them out. These deer are in pitiful shape starving barely able to stand due to starvation. If it wasn't for the deer killers the deer would continue to starve and be in pain.
IF THIS IS TRUE WHY DOES THE FOREST SERVICE NEED TO SPEND FUNDS TO MOW THE BALDS!
These killers claim that that they are feeding thier starving families. They spend tens of thousounds on an RV to camp in, Thousounds more for the ATV's "one per hunter" (These ATV's rip up the AT, "They can tear up the AT To prevent the deer from starving and to feed thier families). These hunters spend thousonds on guns and other hunting gear.
in reality, what happens is: when deer are left to reproduce at will the population eventually becomes so great that nature takes care of itself. meaning, a disease such as "black tongue", or something equally as nasty, kills the entire population. population control is the only way to avoid such diseases. that's why a person may only hunt specified sexes on certain days during deer season, does on certain days and bucks on others. it's because many biologists and naturalists have figured all of this out for you, so you don't have to worry about those scraggly sick dieing deer.
greentick
06-18-2007, 21:30
The Deer killers claim that they do the deer a favor by thinning them out. These deer are in pitiful shape starving barely able to stand due to starvation. If it wasn't for the deer killers the deer would continue to starve and be in pain.
IF THIS IS TRUE WHY DOES THE FOREST SERVICE NEED TO SPEND FUNDS TO MOW THE BALDS!
These killers claim that that they are feeding thier starving families. They spend tens of thousounds on an RV to camp in, Thousounds more for the ATV's "one per hunter" (These ATV's rip up the AT, "They can tear up the AT To prevent the deer from starving and to feed thier families). These hunters spend thousonds on guns and other hunting gear.
After that I sorta like the UFO theory...
thanks! I just got back from a week at Boy Scout camp - we took the troop to Rainey Mtn, near Clayton....was going to ask about timing when I got back - so the blueberries are ripe mid-August through late sept? school's already started by then - we may take our week on the AT, too!That's a broad window I gave you. Late August, early September is primetime. Flower Knob, just south of the Shining Rock Gap has some thick blueberry patches. Actually, there are thick patches all over the place up there. Give me a report, if you make the time this year, Steve.:sun
smokymtnsteve
06-19-2007, 02:26
the heck with the deer..
my dog has been chasing a Moose around the house all day....:D