View Full Version : Colrado hiker billed $10,000 for rescue
Nightwalker
06-14-2007, 04:50
http://tinyurl.com/2qjqre
© Copyright 2007 United Press International, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
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GOLDEN, Colo., June 14 (UPI) -- A hiker rescued Tuesday after hurting his ankle on a steep Colorado hillside may feel the pain in his pocketbook -- he could be charged more than $10,000.
Golden firefighters led the rescue effort in Clear Creek Canyon even though David Seals was trapped outside the city's jurisdiction, said KCNC-TV in Denver. It took rescue crews several hours to lower the Kansas man 600 feet.
Sabrina D'Agosta, Golden's communications manager, said taxpayer money is used for rescues within the city limits.
"Our collection rate is fairly low," D'Agosta told KCNC-TV. "It's about 20 percent of the time, and we negotiate in cases of hardship and we do also send a lot of those to collections."
The hiker also will be billed $2,400 by the West Metro Fire Department, which had nine people work seven hours of overtime.
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Note: If this was the wrong place to post this, I'm sorry. It seemed of general interest, though on the "wrong" trail. :sun
mweinstone
06-14-2007, 06:47
standard fare. mountain resques drain local squads and so this is where were at in our day. break a bone in the wilderness, loose your ass.
RedneckRye
06-14-2007, 08:27
If he had spent $3 before he went out, he could have saved $9997.
Colorado has a search and rescue insurance program, I think it is called a CORSAR card. I paid $3 for mine when I did the Colorado Trail in 2003, so it might be $4 or $5 now. I picked mine up at a gas station that sold fishing licenses, the lady behind the counter told me that the card was included if I bought a fishing or hunting license, but that she rarely sold them seperately.
Maybe most hikers think nothing can go wrong.
RedneckRye
06-14-2007, 08:35
It is the Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search and Rescue Card, $3 for 1 year or $12 for 5 years.
Here is the official info...
http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html
Probably not a bad idea to spend a couple dollars of you're headed that way.
the goat
06-14-2007, 08:39
glad to see someone paying for their own rescue.
It is the Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search and Rescue Card, $3 for 1 year or $12 for 5 years.
Here is the official info...
http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html
Probably not a bad idea to spend a couple dollars of you're headed that way.
Cool. Plans are for glisading down Andrews Glacier, so might be appropo.
Anybody know anything about something like that for GA or other states?
If he had spent $3 before he went out, he could have saved $9997.
Colorado has a search and rescue insurance program, I think it is called a CORSAR card. I paid $3 for mine when I did the Colorado Trail in 2003, so it
The CORSAR card is *NOT* an insurance card.
From the same link:
The CORSAR Card Is Not Insurance
The card is not insurance and does not reimburse individuals nor does it pay for medical transport. Medical transport includes helicopter flights or ground ambulance. If aircraft are used as a search vehicle, those costs are reimbursed by the fund. If the aircraft becomes a medical transport due to a medical emergency, the medical portion of the transport is not covered.
Basically, it helps fund the rescues. The areas that get the most rescues also tend to also have the lowest taxe base and pay a higher percentage of their income for rescues than a wealthier county. The CORSAR funds helps fund the trainining, equipment and rescues from a general fund.
Think of it as a charitable donation card.
Basically, you will not get charged for an SAR *UNLESS* you did a bone-headed thing due to you not being prepared. I suspect there is more to his story than the article is saying.
When a friend of mine suffered from massive altitude sickness and had to be helicoptered out, he was not charged a dime. The local authorities have to get X amount of hours of training in per year and put the SAR towards that.
If my friend had worn blue jeans, did not have equipment, etc. he may have been charged. I believe New Hampshire works the same way now.
Wolf - 23000
06-14-2007, 12:17
Calling a search and rescue all over a sprain ankle??? Is it just me or are we getting really soft. Just like most hikers on this website, I've fallen down a few time, got a couple burses, bang-up a few times. I’m sure we all have at some time but I've never even consider calling and relying on someone else to get my butt out. Every hiker who goes into the wilderness has a responsibility to get his/her butt out!!! If they cry because they got hurt a little, I say let them pay the whole amount.
Wolf
Calling a search and rescue all over a sprain ankle???
Without knowing all the details, the scenario probably went something like this:
a) Tourist from Kansas (TFK) thought it would be cool to scramble up some rock formations and do some hiking
b) TFK had no map, compass, food, water or extra clothing
c) TFK became lost
d) TFK hurt himself (It is almost ALWAYS a dude. Women seem to be smarter. :D)
e) TFK panicked and use his cell phone to call SAR
f) SAR spent a whole afternoon rescuing dude who was probably only a couple of miles from the road at the most
g) SAR people are PO'd as lots of time and money spent rescuing TFK who was woefully unprepared
h) Bill was sent.
Accidents do happen and most SAR folks understand that. What most SAR folks will not excuse is people who are unprepared and depend upon SAR to save them.
Again, this is all conjecture. Just an educated guess.
Out here, in Washington State, I don't think I have heard of anyone ever being charged for a rescue. On the other hand.....a good number of helicopter rescues on the volcanoes are "assisted" by the Navy from NAS Whidbey or similar military operations. And I'll say this: being rescued by the military is about one notch over dying on a glacier. They are brutal, fast and efficent and use you for training purposes ;)
Better than dying, but you won't get any 5 star treatment. About the same if you get rescued by the Coast Guard!
On the other hand, SAR is a big thing out here, and they turn out no matter how big or small the rescue is. Turn an ankle? They'll haul your stupid butt out. Break 50 bones falling while mtnering? They'll haul you out.
And hey, the 4x4 ambulances they have out here are pretty nifty.......
I have though asked my husband one favor:
That if anything ever happens to me, I was a newbie hiker, and had never been on a trail. All the rescue stories on King 5 news always start "Experienced Hiker......":rolleyes:
That if anything ever happens to me, I was a newbie hiker, and had never been on a trail. All the rescue stories on King 5 news always start "Experienced Hiker......":rolleyes:
Heh...my friends and I joke about that too if an accident should happen in the local foot hills trails...
I know a few years ago, there was an SAR rescue where a man (see! It is almost always a dude) was hiking in the Whites during winter. He had no map and compass. Otherwise was pretty safe, though. Just paniced and made a cell phone call from a high point. The rangers directed him towards the Lincoln Trail (? sorry, my memory is fuzzy about the Whites..damn..I gotta get back). It is an old railroad bed that is flat. It leads straight to the ranger station in less than 3 miles.
Well the guy panicked again once on this trail. Went UP to a hight point so he could make another cell phone call. Doh!
This incident was all over the hiking forums. Because of this incident, NH SAR folk started to become more hard #ssed about charging people.
Old Fart may have more info.
Heck, I need to go work for the West Metro Fire Department. $25+/hr... not too shabby.
Heh...my friends and I joke about that too if an accident should happen in the local foot hills trails...
I know a few years ago, there was an SAR rescue where a man (see! It is almost always a dude) was hiking in the Whites during winter. He had no map and compass. Otherwise was pretty safe, though. Just paniced and made a cell phone call from a high point. The rangers directed him towards the Lincoln Trail (? sorry, my memory is fuzzy about the Whites..damn..I gotta get back). It is an old railroad bed that is flat. It leads straight to the ranger station in less than 3 miles.
Well the guy panicked again once on this trail. Went UP to a hight point so he could make another cell phone call. Doh!
This incident was all over the hiking forums. Because of this incident, NH SAR folk started to become more hard #ssed about charging people.
Old Fart may have more info.I remember a story about someone calling from Tripyramid. They had a GPS or a GPS phone and gave the Rangers coordinates. Rangers said go uphill 1/2 mile to the trail. They balked because they wanted to go DOWNhill, not UP. Forget how it turned out.
I almost hurt myself onf the Lincoln Woods trail you mentioned above. A friend and I had hiked over Liberty and Flume and out the Osseo Trail. After all that, walking out on the Lincoln Woods trail, I tripped over a half-buried RR tie and fell, jamming my knee pretty good. I could barely walk and my friend kept threatening to call the Rangers, saying he would write the story himself. He thought it was pretty funny until he tripped, too. Then we promised each other that if one of us fell and died on this flat trail, the other was honor-bound to drag his body back up to Flume and push it over the edge.
TIDE-HSV
06-15-2007, 00:24
are just now catching up on charging for rescues. For many, many, years, the Swiss have been charging mega bucks for rescue. The last time I was over in the Juengfrau Region, a friend tried to talk me into a piggy-back parasail trip (he was a pro). My first thought was that I could plunge several thousand feet to my death. My next thought was that I hadn't prepaid the rescue insurance. (There, it's really more like insurance.)
are just now catching up on charging for rescues. For many, many, years, the Swiss have been charging mega bucks for rescue. The last time I was over in the Juengfrau Region, a friend tried to talk me into a piggy-back parasail trip (he was a pro). My first thought was that I could plunge several thousand feet to my death. My next thought was that I hadn't prepaid the rescue insurance. (There, it's really more like insurance.)
Yeah, you sorta feel like it's "OK, here's my 20 bucks. I am gonna go do something stupid now. Risk my life or health. Wish me luck." :D
Same reason I never go see a doctor. I'd wind up getting sick. :o
Then we promised each other that if one of us fell and died on this flat trail, the other was honor-bound to drag his body back up to Flume and push it over the edge.
Heh..you and your buddy sound a bit like me and my buddy. :) Wise cracking fools who get into and out of trouble. ( I mean that in a good way...I miss Tim!)
The Flume slide trail is still my bench mark as the hardest hiking trail ever! I've bushwhacked in places less steep!!!! That ain't no trail..that's a climb. And, if you have to fake dying heroically, what better place? :)
hammock engineer
06-15-2007, 12:01
I did a quick search on the flume slide trail to see what you guys are talking about. I never saw a trail description that said so many times (a lot actually) that you should not go down this trail. You should not do it by yourself. You should never do this trail in winter.
Now I want to do it.
hammock engineer
06-15-2007, 12:06
Hmmm. I just saw it is only about 4.5 miles off a side trail on the AT in the whites. I might have to add this to my list of places to see if the opportunity presents itself.
Hmmm. I just saw it is only about 4.5 miles off a side trail on the AT in the whites. I might have to add this to my list of places to see if the opportunity presents itself.
As you hike NoBo on the AT, you can split off and go up this trail, summit Flume (the start of the Franconia Ridge more or less) and cotinue along the ridge to Liberty, etc. The AT (Mt. Liberty trail IIRC), joins up again from the Blue Blazed trail that comes from the Flume/Liberty area.
It means you won't have a "pure hike"...but I suspect it would be interesting. It would be CDT-esque!
hammock engineer
06-15-2007, 12:19
As you hike NoBo on the AT, you can split off and go up this trail, summit Flume (the start of the Franconia Ridge more or less) and cotinue along the ridge to Liberty, etc. The AT (Mt. Liberty trail IIRC), joins up again from the Blue Blazed trail that comes from the Flume/Liberty area.
It means you won't have a "pure hike"...but I suspect it would be interesting. It would be CDT-esque!
Thanks. I'll have to break out the map when I get home late tonight. I will be sobo though. Which means the worst part about the route you suggested is I may have to hike the same section sobo a second time. I can live with that. I can think about worse ways to spend 1-2 extra days.
Thanks. I'll have to break out the map when I get home late tonight. I will be sobo though. Which means the worst part about the route you suggested is I may have to hike the same section sobo a second time. I can live with that. I can think about worse ways to spend 1-2 extra days.
Ah! Rather than go down Mt. Libertry and the AT, continue along the Franconina ridge to Mt. Flume, go DOWN Mt. Flume (Good luck and God bless!) and rejoin with the AT. The area is very well signed, so you should have no problem joining up again with the AT. I forget if the ATC maps show this alternate or not. Or, as you said, you get to spend an extra day or two in the Whites. Not the worse thing in the world. :)
hammock engineer
06-15-2007, 12:45
Ah! Rather than go down Mt. Libertry and the AT, continue along the Franconina ridge to Mt. Flume, go DOWN Mt. Flume (Good luck and God bless!) and rejoin with the AT. The area is very well signed, so you should have no problem joining up again with the AT. I forget if the ATC maps show this alternate or not. Or, as you said, you get to spend an extra day or two in the Whites. Not the worse thing in the world. :)
Thanks. But based on what I am reading on this I don't think that I want to try to go down it. At least at where my current skill level with hiking is. Now all I have to do is talk someone into doing this with me. I'll have to talk it up to who ever I end up hiking around and see how bites.:D
Pencil Pusher
06-15-2007, 13:45
Here's another news link with video: http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_164095033.html
Highway 6 was closed, lol.
But based on what I am reading on this I don't think that I want to try to go down it.
Smart man! When I did this trail ten years ago, I remember very faint blue blazes, grabbing trees and giving thanks it was not raining. I would NOT want to downclimb this area. But, I an admitted wimp. ;)
spittinpigeon
06-15-2007, 15:39
d) TFK hurt himself (It is almost ALWAYS a dude. Women seem to be smarter. :D)
.
It's relative to the amount of men on the trail vs women.
It's relative to the amount of men on the trail vs women.
Maybe. I still think us guys are more likely to do something stupid in terms of the backcountry than women. Call it testosterone poisining. :)
spittinpigeon
06-15-2007, 15:49
Maybe. I still think us guys are more likely to do something stupid in terms of the backcountry than women. Call it testosterone poisining. :)
Indeed, but maybe it's just HAVING BALLS! hehe, those things can get you into a lot of trouble, in more ways than one.
Indeed, but maybe it's just HAVING BALLS! hehe, those things can get you into a lot of trouble, in more ways than one.
On my hike of the Ring The Peak trail (http://www.fotp.com/ringthepeak/index.html), my buddies and saw a sport ute that was trapped there since winter. Apparently this happens in the area every year. Perhaps it takes some cajones to go off-roading in winter in a stock SUV.
I'd just hate to see the dude explain to his significant other why his SUV is trapped in the mountains. Until th epond dries up, it will be there until bout mid August I estimate. Maybe it was a lady who left it there. I doubt it. :)
My grandfather taught me what it was to be a man: Work hard, do your best for the people you love, always keep your word.
He said nothing about doing things I was not prepared for or did not have the knowledge to do.
Perhaps I don't have big ones. Fine by me. :)
spittinpigeon
06-15-2007, 16:14
My Dad's Father in-law from a new marriage gave me these words of 'wisdom'... "Find out if she has money..... THEN fall in love with her".
I said "money isn't everything Ed", "Ya but it helps".
smokymtnsteve
06-15-2007, 16:59
My Dad's Father in-law from a new marriage gave me these words of 'wisdom'... "Find out if she has money..... THEN fall in love with her".
I said "money isn't everything Ed", "Ya but it helps".
better yet find out if her mom owns a fishing lodge in AK..hhehe;)
Dances with Mice
06-15-2007, 19:42
It would be ok by me if they ran my credit card number before the rescue.
The trouble would be if they called my wife to verify the charge.
Indeed, but maybe it's just HAVING BALLS! hehe, those things can get you into a lot of trouble, in more ways than one.Only if you confuse them with your brains :D
But again, this is just as Mags said, most of the fools that get into trouble are men.
For one thing, I've never heard a woman say, "Wanna see something really cool? Here, hold my beer a minute." Those words almost always indicate something stupid is about to occur.
For one thing, I've never heard a woman say, "Wanna see something really cool? Here, hold my beer a minute." Those words almost always indicate something stupid is about to occur.
Yeah, like a video camera needs to be on :D lol!
"Here, hold my beer a minute."
Those words should be synonymous with "oh, while you're at it, go ahead and call 9-1-1!";)
If the aircraft becomes a medical transport due to a medical emergency, the medical portion of the transport is not covered.
I'm just guessing that's because they know that most private health insurance plans would cover that portion of the expense. Assuming the victim has health insurance.
Panzer
On the other hand.....a good number of helicopter rescues on the volcanoes are "assisted" by the Navy from NAS Whidbey or similar military operations. And I'll say this: being rescued by the military is about one notch over dying on a glacier. They are brutal, fast and efficent and use you for training purposes ;)
Better than dying, but you won't get any 5 star treatment. About the same if you get rescued by the Coast Guard!
Sorry about the customer service. I'll get with my buddies up there and make sure they're nicer to the next fool they pluck off the side of a mountain...:D
fiddlehead
06-19-2007, 21:46
in 1991, i was hiking the JMT with my buddy Chooch (AT 89) and he broke his ankle in the middle of the hike. He got helocoptered out and it cost him around $450.00 i believe. They charged him from the time they picked him up, until we got to the hospital in Bishop which was only 15 minutes. But it took the helicopter 40 minutes to get there (they came from the west) but they didn't charge him until they picked him up.
His health insurance covered it.
(It was fun bushwhacking in the same route a year later to finish the hike.)
Patrickjd9
06-20-2007, 19:48
It is the Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search and Rescue Card, $3 for 1 year or $12 for 5 years.
Here is the official info...
http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html
Probably not a bad idea to spend a couple dollars of you're headed that way.
The existance of this card was made clear to me the past two times I was in Colorado to hike (in 1999 and 2004).
$3 is nothing. I think $3 is a good deal for a year of coverage. Better yet is the $12 option for 5 years of coverage. Where can you get 5 years of any kind of coverage for $12??
Panzer
$3 is nothing. I think $3 is a good deal for a year of coverage. Better yet is the $12 option for 5 years of coverage. Where can you get 5 years of any kind of coverage for $12??
Panzer
Again, it is NOT an insurance a card. Please review what I wrote earlier.
Please, I hope people do not buy this card thinking they are insured. You aren't.
From the website:
The CORSAR Card Is Not Insurance
The card is not insurance and does not reimburse individuals nor does it pay for medical transport. Medical transport includes helicopter flights or ground ambulance. If aircraft are used as a search vehicle, those costs are reimbursed by the fund. If the aircraft becomes a medical transport due to a medical emergency, the medical portion of the transport is not covered.
SO..again, The CORSAR Card Is Not Insurance
hammock engineer
06-21-2007, 10:29
So what again is the point of the card? It reads to me like it helps cover some costs, but not all. Or is it just a donation?
So what again is the point of the card? It reads to me like it helps cover some costs, but not all. Or is it just a donation?
I wrote this earlier in the thread:
Basically, it helps fund the rescues. The areas that get the most rescues also tend to also have the lowest taxe base and pay a higher percentage of their income for rescues than a wealthier county. The CORSAR funds helps fund the trainining, equipment and rescues from a general fund.
Think of it as a charitable donation card.
Basically, you will not get charged for an SAR *UNLESS* you did a bone-headed thing due to you not being prepared. I suspect there is more to his story than the article is saying.
When a friend of mine suffered from massive altitude sickness and had to be helicoptered out, he was not charged a dime. The local authorities have to get X amount of hours of training in per year and put the SAR towards that.
If my friend had worn blue jeans, did not have equipment, etc. he may have been charged. I believe New Hampshire works the same way now.
See http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html for more details.
hammock engineer
06-21-2007, 11:02
I wrote this earlier in the thread:
Basically, it helps fund the rescues. The areas that get the most rescues also tend to also have the lowest taxe base and pay a higher percentage of their income for rescues than a wealthier county. The CORSAR funds helps fund the trainining, equipment and rescues from a general fund.
Think of it as a charitable donation card.
Basically, you will not get charged for an SAR *UNLESS* you did a bone-headed thing due to you not being prepared. I suspect there is more to his story than the article is saying.
When a friend of mine suffered from massive altitude sickness and had to be helicoptered out, he was not charged a dime. The local authorities have to get X amount of hours of training in per year and put the SAR towards that.
If my friend had worn blue jeans, did not have equipment, etc. he may have been charged. I believe New Hampshire works the same way now.
See http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html for more details.
Thanks for clarifying. That has always been my impression.
I have a buddy that is on a SAR team in OR. He told me that if I did anything stupid he would come in and get me, then do bodily harm to me if I wasn't hurt enough already if I did something stupid in order to need rescuing in the first place.
I wrote this earlier in the thread:
Basically, it helps fund the rescues. The areas that get the most rescues also tend to also have the lowest taxe base and pay a higher percentage of their income for rescues than a wealthier county. The CORSAR funds helps fund the trainining, equipment and rescues from a general fund.
Think of it as a charitable donation card.
Basically, you will not get charged for an SAR *UNLESS* you did a bone-headed thing due to you not being prepared. I suspect there is more to his story than the article is saying.
When a friend of mine suffered from massive altitude sickness and had to be helicoptered out, he was not charged a dime. The local authorities have to get X amount of hours of training in per year and put the SAR towards that.
If my friend had worn blue jeans, did not have equipment, etc. he may have been charged. I believe New Hampshire works the same way now.
See http://www.dola.state.co.us/dlg/fa/sar/sar_purchase.html for more details.
I didn't see anything in there that said you had to be "prepared" in order to receive coverage.
Panzer
The CORSAR Card Is Not Insurance
It seems that this would only cover a person in Colorado. If you were hiking in Colorado and somehow got lost and strayed across the state border you would not be covered.. That greatly limits its value.
I think the problem is that what people really need is "SAR Insurance".
Perhaps a rider on your home or car insurance would be better as long as it covered you no matter what state you were in and even if you were not "prepared". Having to buy a seperate policy is not good from a marketing point of view. It needs to be a "check box" on your home or car insurance policy.
The idea of only covering "prepared" people is about as ridiculous as a health insurance not covering people for being overweight, smoking, ect..
Panzer
smokymtnsteve
06-21-2007, 22:07
Health insurance shouldn't cover smoking and overweight !;)
Sorry about the customer service. I'll get with my buddies up there and make sure they're nicer to the next fool they pluck off the side of a mountain...:D
Lol..still better than dying in the mountains. I'd be more than happy to be rescued by the Navy if needed ;)
Most people feel exactly the same way while being expediently banged into the cargo door of an SH-60 on a stokes stretcher whilst hypothermic and bleeding from a compound!!:D :D
We're not much on conversation, but at least you'll be able to complain once we're done with ya!!!:D :D
(all of the last was tounge in cheek incase anyone is offended)
I didn't see anything in there that said you had to be "prepared" in order to receive coverage.
Panzer
No it does not.
But that is how they do it. Along ith most SARs. It is an unwritten "rule"...except in New Hampshire where it is now law.
Basically, if you do something boneheaded, you will get charged for the rescue.
It seems that this would only cover a person in Colorado. If you were hiking in Colorado and somehow got lost and strayed across the state border you would not be covered.. That greatly limits its value.
No one is covered because it is not an insurance card.