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Hikes with a stick
06-27-2007, 10:10
I'm heading to Glacier national park in a week, and I plan on doing at least three or four nights in the backcountry there... I'm hiking/backpacking with my girlfriend and another couple, and we have bear canisters for our food. But where do we keep the our packs while we sleep? On previous trips, we have hung them chest high using a strap wrapped around a tree. I would put it in my tent, but I have a seedhouse 2 and there is not much room in there. I'm afraid if I hang it a bear might think there is food in it, and destroy it.

wilconow
06-27-2007, 10:13
I'm heading to Glacier national park in a week, and I plan on doing at least three or four nights in the backcountry there... I'm hiking/backpacking with my girlfriend and another couple, and we have bear canisters for our food. But where do we keep the our packs while we sleep? On previous trips, we have hung them chest high using a strap wrapped around a tree. I would put it in my tent, but I have a seedhouse 2 and there is not much room in there. I'm afraid if I hang it a bear might think there is food in it, and destroy it.

I'm sure you'll get good answers here, but have you asked a ranger? I mean, that's what we pay them for..

Mags
06-27-2007, 10:19
Glacier has designated campsites with bear hanging poles. There is also a designated cooking area away from the campsites.

Once you are done with dinner you can hang your food (and pack if need be) at the pole. Bring some parachute cord and you'll be OK.

Alligator
06-27-2007, 10:21
All the backcountry sites I stayed at in Glacier had bear cables/poles. On the cables, you might be able to get your pack up, but I doubt it would work on the poles.

Alligator
06-27-2007, 10:25
A Grizzly came by our site in the middle of the night, batted our packs, and sniffed our tent. No damage to the packs though:sun .

gold bond
06-27-2007, 10:39
Don't forget your "triangle"....Cooking and eating, sleeping, food storage.

Keep 75-100 paces between the "big three" and do not sleep in the middle. Be very concerned about your "smellables" and keep them hung 6' (if possible) higher than your tallest person.

Even batteries, film / camera's, chapstick, water tablets,any food,toothpaste and tooth brush, etc.. are all considered "smellables" and must be hung. The clothes you've eaten and cooked in need to be hung. Wash / wipe your hands and face from eating really good before turning in.

Allways have an "oop's" bag! A small bag that is hung seperatley and can be taken down easily....for the little "oop's" that will always happen. Your about to go to bed and realize that you have a tube of chapstick or a piece of beef jerky in your pack. Maybe a small tube of tootpaste....anyway, it's a bag that can be easily taken down to prevent you from saying "it'll be alright"....and go on to bed.

most importantly, do what everyone else has said...consult a local ranger and get him to tell you what he wants so it'll be the way he wants it and if anything does happen they can't fine you as long as your following thier procedures!

Hikes with a stick
06-27-2007, 10:40
What is the pole/cable system like at Glacier? Can the bear canister be left on the ground in the pole/cable area, or should I attempt to hang it?

Footslogger
06-27-2007, 10:59
[quote=gold bond;375508]Don't forget your "triangle"....Cooking and eating, sleeping, food storage.

=================================

aka ...the BEAR-MUDA-Triangle !!

'Slogger

superman
06-27-2007, 11:06
I hiked in Glacier National Park in "74." It's important to pay attention to every system they've put in place to help hikers stay safe in my opinion. There used to be deaths every year of hikers who didn't take it serious. I have a good bear can but a bear can play with it for miles if it gets a mind to. Anything you can do to secure your bear can is also a good idea. You can debate about hanging a bear bag on the AT but it's a silly thing to do in Glacier National Park and some other places. There are people who do all the wrong things and get away with it...are you feeling lucky?

Alligator
06-27-2007, 11:08
The cables were strung between two trees. The poles had I think four hooks on each one at the top. The pole stood on it's own base. I don't know exactly how high they were. I found them harder to hang stuff on. The hooks are close together and multiple lines tended to get tangled together. It was also harder IMO to get the line over the hook. They do provide a separate pole to help push things up. I think it would be hard to get four backpacks up the pole. I went through Glacier with a large pack, as opposed I think to Mags, who I believe has a small pack. His experience is also more recent, I was there last in 2000.

I don't know the regs on bear cannisters, check with the park.

gold bond
06-27-2007, 11:25
Amen slogger! They told me that my PCT-1 was nothing more than a "bear burrito"

I as well learned something on my last trip. We were advised by a Ranger to never put our tents in a "circle". He said that if a bear was to get inside of the circle it is possible the bear would get confused and not be able to get out and the bear would start to panick and no telling what the bear would do to get out! I had never heard that before.

The ranger advised us to put our tents eithe in a straight line or a "semi-circle" leaving about 3-5 feet between the tents.

Mags
06-27-2007, 11:26
I went through Glacier with a large pack, as opposed I think to Mags, who I believe has a small pack. His experience is also more recent, I was there last in 2000.

I don't know the regs on bear cannisters, check with the park.

Very good point. I had one pack..and a small one at that.

Personally. I think as long as you hang food items (which includes food, cookware and toiletries such as toothpaste, sunscreen, etc.) you'll be fine.
Make sure ALL food items are removed from the pack.

As a note it is easy to do the "Bearmuda" triangle (I like that! :D), in Glacier. In fact, it is setup so you HAVE to do it.

Ultimately, I really wouldn't worry too much about the griz. You are four people, camping in areas that are nicely setup for that reason, etc.

Have a great time and enjoy the beauty of GNP!

Jimmers
06-27-2007, 11:37
I've heard that it's a good idea to cook dinner before setting up camp, then hike another mile or so and stopping for the night. That way there are no food odors wafting about at all, aside from the goodies in your pack, and those should be hung up anyway. You may want to wash your pack with soap and water if you've ever spilled something smelly on it, especially Dr Bronner's soaps. I've had rangers tell me that bears love the smell of peppermint.

Mags
06-27-2007, 11:45
I've heard that it's a good idea to cook dinner before setting up camp, then hike another mile or so and stopping for the night.

It is what I did in the Sierra and the Bob Marshall Wilderness (for example). However, I don't think it is neccessary in GNP. In fact, I don't think the rangers would condone it considering the amount of people that use glacier in a given year. I suspect they would want cooking in the designated areas.


Here are some pics from Glacier (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=13979) to inspire those thinking of going there. Ignore my ugly mug and the scenery is awesome! :D

Jimmers
06-27-2007, 14:09
However, I don't think it is neccessary in GNP. In fact, I don't think the rangers would condone it considering the amount of people that use glacier in a given year. I suspect they would want cooking in the designated areas.


True, I hadn't considered that. I've been planning a trip to Yellowstone for years, that's probably where that would be most effective. Now if only my hiking partners would stop breaking legs and and spending money on frivolous things like engagement rings I might make it there someday...:p:D

Montana
06-27-2007, 14:14
I used my can last time I was in the GNP with no problems, I just left it near the bear poles that everyone else used. Regarding the pack, I just placed it against a tree with its cover in place to stay dry. The only issue I had was with the deer, I lost a hat and nearly lost a sock to these salt deprived critters! Enjoy, Glacier is absolutely gorgeous!

- Montana

The Weasel
06-27-2007, 14:17
Bears are different in each park, and not just by species, but also by their habituation with hikers. Before going into a particular wilderness, try to speak to a ranger with actual backcountry experience in that park/wilderness (not all rangers do, so it's worth asking their familiarity with where you are actually going on a 'boots on ground' basis). Hanging a pack is useful, but don't underestimate the reach of even black bears. It can be hard to get a pack adequately away from all branches that a bear might use if it aggressively was interested in a pack.

Good advice I've gotten here in California (bears are very aggressive): Clean the outside of bear bins/bags with alcohol wipes after each use. You get food scent on the exteriors from handling them at meal times, and then that can rub off into the interior of your pack or even your sleepbag sack. One ranger also advised mouthwashing, brushing teeth and flossing at night, saying that he didn't want 'food breath' to attract a bear.

The Weasel

Mags
06-27-2007, 15:24
The only issue I had was with the deer, I lost a hat and nearly lost a sock to these salt deprived critters!


As I was cooking dinner one night, I saw a deer run by my food-prep area — with a shirt in its mouth. In fact, it was MY hiking shirt! I yelled at it, startled it, and picked up my shirt, which was missing three buttons. With some safety pins, I managed to effect repairs and give it the stylish look all backcountry travelers desire.

Without the safety pins, the shirt would have been down to almost my navel. If my compass was on a gold chain, it would have been quite the dashing look.

Mags
06-27-2007, 15:26
Now if only my hiking partners would stop breaking legs and and spending money on frivolous things like engagement rings I might make it there someday...:p:D

hmm..I hope those two items are NOT related in some odd and scary way. ;)

Jimmers
06-27-2007, 16:07
hmm..I hope those two items are NOT related in some odd and scary way. ;)

Thankfully not directly. :D

Three years ago I was all set to go when my nephew broke his leg in work just a month prior to the trip. So that trip got cancelled. I love hiking solo, and I've done it in the Grand Canyon and other western parks, but somehow I want a partner for Yellowstone. Just seems safer.

Two years ago the same nephew backed out on me because he decided to get engaged. Can't really blame him I guess.:rolleyes: Priorities and all.

Last year I quit my job rather unexpectedly (it was a surprise to myself too) and went back to Grad school. Isn't life what happens while you're making other plans, or something like that?;)

Alligator
06-27-2007, 16:08
A deer nibbled my shirt too, and it or another tried to make off with my hat, which it stole out of my vestibule.

Forget the food, don't leave your clothes unattended!

Jimmers
06-27-2007, 16:09
Without the safety pins, the shirt would have been down to almost my navel. If my compass was on a gold chain, it would have been quite the dashing look.

Hmm, a free retro 70's look! Great for themed costume parties.:D

Footslogger
06-27-2007, 16:12
Hmm, a free retro 70's look! Great for themed costume parties.:D

====================================

All he would have needed was a pair of platform trail shoes ...

'Slogger

Mags
06-27-2007, 16:20
====================================

All he would have needed was a pair of platform trail shoes ...

'Slogger

I should also add that my last name is MAGnanti and I have lots of dark chest hair, too.

"How ya doin'? I'm freakin' hikin' the CDT. ". :) (Said with a faux Brooklyn accent)

Yes..quite the look.

fiddlehead
06-27-2007, 21:45
In Yellowstone and Glacier, they'll have a pole although it is not very high and any bear could probably get the food anyway, but the bears there don't for some reason. (not like the bears in Yosemite) I always sleep with my pack and just hung my food in those two NPs.
In the Bob, i slept with my food. It's the longest stretch on the CDT and i wasn't going to risk losing it to porcupines, raccoons or mice. The ranger there told me there had been no intances of griz taking hikers food in her time there.
Anyway, after two times thru those 3 places, (3 thru yellowstone and glacier) i've never had a problem although one night in Glacier, i had a marmot going after my food when i camped up above treeline (i had put lots of rocks on top of it) so i pulled it into my tent as i had some special treats for the end of the hike.

Fiddleback
06-28-2007, 10:17
I hiked in Glacier National Park in "74." It's important to pay attention to every system they've put in place to help hikers stay safe in my opinion. There used to be deaths every year of hikers who didn't take it serious.

Probably true but the deaths weren't caused by grizzlies. Over the past 100+ years there have been approximately 50 fatal grizzly attacks in North America. Of those, about 10 occurred in Glacier (resulting in the euthanization of 13 bears).

Prior to 1974, there had been only two fatal attacks in the Park's history. Five of the eight deaths since then were solo hikers/campers.

FYI, in one listing of bear-caused fatalities since the early 1900s, black bear fatalities outnumber grizzlies, 52-50 (the count of attacks in Canada and maybe Alaska are no doubt incomplete...the count of attacks in Glacier is no doubt very accurate).

FB

mriets1
06-28-2007, 12:48
an article about the Grizzly bear fatalities in Glacier in 74 in this months backpacker magazine.

Fiddleback
06-28-2007, 19:43
Not 1974 but 1967...

superman
06-28-2007, 19:55
Probably true but the deaths weren't caused by grizzlies. Over the past 100+ years there have been approximately 50 fatal grizzly attacks in North America. Of those, about 10 occurred in Glacier (resulting in the euthanization of 13 bears).

Prior to 1974, there had been only two fatal attacks in the Park's history. Five of the eight deaths since then were solo hikers/campers.

FYI, in one listing of bear-caused fatalities since the early 1900s, black bear fatalities outnumber grizzlies, 52-50 (the count of attacks in Canada and maybe Alaska are no doubt incomplete...the count of attacks in Glacier is no doubt very accurate).

FB

At that time there was quite a buzz because two girls had been pulled out of their tent and killed. It seems they were camping in a dump where the bears commonly fed. I don't know if that was actually in the park or not. It was the big topic in those parts at that time.

weary
07-01-2007, 02:27
I'm heading to Glacier national park in a week, and I plan on doing at least three or four nights in the backcountry there... I'm hiking/backpacking with my girlfriend and another couple, and we have bear canisters for our food. But where do we keep the our packs while we sleep? On previous trips, we have hung them chest high using a strap wrapped around a tree. I would put it in my tent, but I have a seedhouse 2 and there is not much room in there. I'm afraid if I hang it a bear might think there is food in it, and destroy it.
During my present tour of Alaska, I keep mine in hostels. But riding the shuttle to Wonder Lake in Denelli we spotted four grizlies -- a sow with two cubs and a lone bear a little later.

Weary

TIDE-HSV
07-01-2007, 23:14
My memory is that the NPS was still allowing garbage feeding of the bears at that time and the young workers were traveling back and forth at night from the lodge to the cabins where the young male workers (imagine that!) were staying. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it galvanized a major change in NPS policy towards bears and garbage...

Moon Monster
07-02-2007, 12:10
Now if only my hiking partners would stop breaking legs and and spending money on frivolous things like engagement rings I might make it there someday...:p:D

Just inform them that diamond engagement rings were an invention of a Philadelphia marketing agency in the 1940s and there is very little tradition about them at all. Truly traditional rings are inexpensive. Their finances will balk at this, but your friends may wise up and spend more of their money on real things like backpacking trips!

Jimmers
07-02-2007, 13:09
You know, I've tried persuading girls of that about diamond rings for years. And I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to be old and lonely if I keep it up!:D

Lone Wolf
07-02-2007, 13:13
the ring represents nothing. the amount of $$ you spent on it represents everything.

Mags
07-02-2007, 13:17
You know, I've tried persuading girls of that about diamond rings for years. And I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to be old and lonely if I keep it up!:D


As my uncle told me once when I younger: "Buddy..if Momma Bear ain't happy, then neither is Pappa Bear".

TIDE-HSV
07-03-2007, 00:18
don't leave your clothes unattended

Or rinse the salt out of them... :D

oldfivetango
07-03-2007, 07:57
the ring represents nothing. the amount of $$ you spent on it represents everything.

Truer words were never spoken!:banana
Oldfivetango

Grimace
07-03-2007, 09:22
We traversed Glacier - Cut Bank to Kintla Lake in '05. What folks said above is correct. Poles and wires in every camp site. Camping is restricted to those sites. We just put our packs outside the tent and all food and smelly stuff went up. A bear cannister is not required. It does nothing to prevent the smell and you have to hang your food out of bear's reach anyway. Why carry the extra weight?

A little trick for those poles because it can be a pain to hang your food. Find a small and sturdy twig. Hold your food bag by it's draw string. Now place the stick lengthwise in the middle of the draw string loop halfway between the top where you are holding it and the food bag. The weight of the food will create enough tension to hold the stick in place while keeping the two side of the draw string separated. Looks like this...
/\
/ \
/_____\ <--stick
\ /
\ / <-- draw string
\/
food bag
is here
\/

Grimace
07-03-2007, 09:26
Ha Ha - my drawing didn't work so well when I posted it.

Imagine a diamond. top point is where your hand is holding the drawstring, bottom point is where draw sting connects to food bag. To horizontal points created by the stick.

With the draw sting held open by the stick - it is easy to hang it on bear poles. If you're careful, the stick will stay all night making just as easy to hook it in the morning.

Hikes with a stick
07-03-2007, 09:34
Thanks for that great tip grimace...

I thought part of the attraction of having a bear canister was that you did not have to hang it, you just leave it sitting on the ground. I thought this was great, because if you are eating and a bear approaches, you just toss what is left of your food in the canister, seal it up, and leave the area.

Grimace
07-03-2007, 09:49
Most bears, unless they have been habituated, tend to avoid humans when they're moving around. Since most trails in Glacier are pretty busy and since most campsites have other occupants, you'll always be around a few other people. A wild bear approaching a group of active humans is rare. Honestly, if a Grizzly comes up to you while you're eating, I'm thinking the last thing that will be on your mind is safely storing your food.

From my understanding, the bear cans are peace of mind that a bear won't eat your food at night. The wires ands poles at camp also offer that to you.
If you don't hang your bear can, and a bear does come sniffing around, it will try like hell to get into it. Bat it around, etc. Your food will stay safe but good luck finding it in the morning. You'll most likely hang it anyway, so again... why carry the weight.

moxie
07-03-2007, 23:41
Try sleeping in your pack. Put your food in your sleeping bag and leave it outside your tent. The griz will eat your sleeping bag but you and your pack will be safe. This will not work in you are over 35 inches tall and weigh more than 45 pounds. In that case sleep with a 44 magnum and use your pack for a pillow.

weary
07-04-2007, 22:37
True, I hadn't considered that. I've been planning a trip to Yellowstone for years, that's probably where that would be most effective. Now if only my hiking partners would stop breaking legs and and spending money on frivolous things like engagement rings I might make it there someday...:p:D
My current hiking partner, my wife, has yet to break a leg and I managed to marry her 45 years ago with just a wedding band; no diamond investment as yet. I ponder buying a diamond from time to time, but always think better of it.

This trip to Alaska would probably buy several diamonds, even though we are saving a bit by sleeping mostly in hostels.

Weary

superman
07-05-2007, 07:31
My current hiking partner, my wife, has yet to break a leg and I managed to marry her 45 years ago with just a wedding band; no diamond investment as yet. I ponder buying a diamond from time to time, but always think better of it.

This trip to Alaska would probably buy several diamonds, even though we are saving a bit by sleeping mostly in hostels.

Weary

My son got married yesterday. Yes, he and his new wife do very well financially and can afford the big party. But... I cringe at the wastefulness of such an expensive wedding with all the other expenses that go with it. I don't think the cost of such things does anything to help the longevity of the union. In fact, for some couples they start their marriage flat broke because they wasted their money on a party. There are so many rainy days that couples have to deal with before they can take a trip to Alaska or what ever they want.

TIDE-HSV
07-05-2007, 14:25
Our honeymoon trip 21 years ago was a backpack into the Wind River Wilderness. We thought about repeating it this summer, but I think we'll go to Norway instead... :D