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View Full Version : Appalachian Trail programs at Lees-McRae College near Boone, NC



warren doyle
06-28-2007, 21:33
For anyone that might be interested, I'll be giving three programs the next three Sundays (7-8:30pm) in Abrams Auditorium (bottom floor of library) at Lees-McRae College in Banner Elk, NC. They are free and open to all.

July 1st - The Appalachian Trail (slide/music show)

July 8th - The Life and Poetry of Don West (poetry reading)

July 15th - 30,000 miles of Trail Stories (storytelling).

Happy trails!

Roland
06-28-2007, 22:02
Warren,

One gets the impression that there may be a few members who seek-out all of your posts to respond with insults and personal attacks. While this type of behavior is banned by the site's usage agreement (http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement), it often goes unchecked until it escalates into nasty flame wars.

You might consider starting your threads in the Straight Forward forum. This forum is more closely moderated and off-topic or inappropriate posts are sometimes deleted.

Even when your detractors have resorted to name calling and personal attacks, I have not seen you engage in similar behavior. I sometimes wonder if I could keep my cool, in the same situation. I may not always agree with you, but I respect your restraint.

warren doyle
06-28-2007, 22:19
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it. I believe there are more of you out there than of them. This faith supports my restraint.

minnesotasmith
06-28-2007, 23:06
Will ethics be covered?

emerald
06-29-2007, 00:21
I'd like to see the slide show, but it's a bit far to travel.:( Maybe it will be showing somewhere nearer where I live later this year.

Appalachian Tater
06-29-2007, 00:43
Are law enforcement people allowed to attend?

Heater
06-29-2007, 00:54
When is your class on stealing services? :D

ASUGrad
06-29-2007, 09:26
Near Boone is a relative term. It's about 3 DUI's away. You are at the foot of Beech Mountain. That is some seriously beautiful country there. Grandfather Mountain, the Blue Ridge Parkway, Valley Crucis.

Uncle Silly
07-02-2007, 23:19
3 DUI's?? There aren't enough bars IN Boone, much less between there and Banner Elk, to get you 3 DUI's....

BucketHeadnBryn
07-02-2007, 23:35
Murphy's is good for at least 2 DUI's.

MrHappy
07-03-2007, 03:09
Not from the area but have visited, and it was only a 20 minute or so drive from banner elk to boone.

ASUGrad
07-03-2007, 09:13
Not during the Touron season. They have to slow for every store on 105. You never know when you might find that perfect Christmas ornament.

It takes 20 minutes just to get through the light at 321/105 in Boone. There is a way to get to BE through Valle Crucis so you can hit the Mast General Store(s). The Candy Barrel is my favorite.

sherrill
07-03-2007, 11:54
I don't always agree with things Mr. Doyle posts here, but I don't agree with "hijacking" or "thread drift" that seems to follow his posts, especially when he is offering free services.

Not that anybody particularly gives a crap, but this activity is more and more turning me away from Whiteblaze.

The Old Fhart
07-03-2007, 11:58
Sherrill-"I don't always agree with things Mr. Doyle posts here, but I don't agree with "hijacking" or "thread drift" that seems to follow his posts, especially when he is offering free services.

Not that anybody particularly gives a crap, but this activity is more and more turning me away from Whiteblaze."So thread drift disturbs you more than his illegal activities?:-?

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:05
what does he do that's illegal?

Creek Dancer
07-03-2007, 12:06
Are the programs free?

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:08
Are the programs free?

they are FREE and open to ALL

Ender
07-03-2007, 12:09
When it's in a thread that has nothing to do with the illegal activities, then yeah, it bothers me. Start a thread about it if you want to talk about it so much... nothing's stopping you. Every single thread of his is hijacked, and he's almost never the one to bring up his illegal activities.

Not that I'm in any way defending those activities, but start a different thread to discuss them. It's not hard to do, there's plenty of bandwidth.

And seriously, show me one person here who's never broken a law. I break the law every single time I get behind the wheel of a car and do 5 mph over the limit.

Appalachian Tater
07-03-2007, 12:10
they are FREE and open to ALL

Even "internegators"?

John B
07-03-2007, 12:11
I agree with Ender and Sherrill.

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:12
Even "internegators"?

sure. he has no hatred in his heart like you and others have

Appalachian Tater
07-03-2007, 12:18
L. Wolf, I am pretty accepting but lying and stealing and teaching others to lie and steal is not acceptable.

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:19
L. Wolf, I am pretty accepting but lying and stealing and teaching others to lie and steal is not acceptable.

have you witnessed any of this?

Creek Dancer
07-03-2007, 12:21
they are FREE and open to ALL

Oops, I missed that part. Thanks.

minnesotasmith
07-03-2007, 12:25
That still has not been addressed by the person who started this thread.

Will this program include a section on ethics, or not?

Ender
07-03-2007, 12:28
He gave you the topics in the very first post.

emerald
07-03-2007, 12:28
One gets the impression that there may be a few members who seek-out all of [Warren's] posts to respond with insults and personal attacks. While this type of behavior is banned by the site's usage agreement (http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement), it often goes unchecked until it escalates into nasty flame wars.

It seems to me the purpose of this thread was to announce 3 activities and invite anyone who may wish to attend. :-? I'm not at all clear why such an announcement requires a discussion, but I have little doubt someone will be happy to explain that to me.:rolleyes:

Since I began writing this post, there's been considerable additional posting, little or perhaps none of which appears to be related to the initial post, nor was the post which prompted my reply.

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:31
He gave you the topics in the very first post.

minnesotasmith has no intention of attending. he's just trying to stir up poop like the rest of the warren haters.

Ender
07-03-2007, 12:32
minnesotasmith has no intention of attending. he's just trying to stir up poop like the rest of the warren haters.

pathetic

123567890

Appalachian Tater
07-03-2007, 12:34
have you witnessed any of this?

No, but Mr. Doyle has repeatedly admitted his crimes and immoral activities on this forum. Since he confesses, no witnesses are required.

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:36
Mr. Doyle has repeatedly admitted his crimes and immoral activities on this forum.

show me where he admits to CRIMES and IMMORAL activity

The Old Fhart
07-03-2007, 12:39
Lone Wolf-"what does he do that's illegal?"Don't tell me you've never read his manifesto and numerous posts admitting to same?::rolleyes:

Ender
07-03-2007, 12:40
Show me where he's teaching them.

So far, I've seen him admit to them, but as you said you're accepting of that.

Lone Wolf
07-03-2007, 12:41
Don't tell me you've never read his manifesto and numerous posts admitting to same?::rolleyes:

nope. enlighten me

Frosty
07-03-2007, 13:18
That still has not been addressed by the person who started this thread.

Will this program include a section on ethics, or not?Yeah, he's going to talk about the ethics of filling a bear box with all your gear so no one else can use it, and the ethics of standing on a shelter platform pissing off the edge, and the ethics of appropriating for your own use canned water intended for LA hurricane victims.

What is it with you guys?

There comes a point where such behavior becomes stalking. We all know how you feel. Telling us one more time adds nothing.

Remember when The Weasel returned? His attitude turned a lot of us off, and much of the same behavior you see here was occurring then (though not nearly to the same degree).

I was one of the ones who posted in The Weasel's threads, adn the moderators pointed out (to me and to everyone) that regardless of whether we liked The Weasel or not, he had a right to post without being harrassed. If we didn't like him or his topics, we were to stay out of his threads. They were very, very clear on this, and deleted inappropriate posts.

I saw they were right. I still don't care much for The Weasel, but I will not go into his threads with off-topic stuff. He has a right to post here, and to have his posts addressed for their content.

The difference, of course, is that The Weasel is a friend of Attroll and Sgt Rock, and Warren Doyle is not, so the harrassment continues.

What needs to happen is for the moderators to follow the rules they set up, and moderate.

Instead they are trying to drive Doyle away.

The last thread that Warren posted was attacked in the same way, but the moderators did not act the same way that they did with The Weasel, deleting inappropriat topics and warning people. Instead they closed Warren's thread. The message is pretty clear. If a small clique wants someone off this forum, they need only highjack every thread and have the moderators close the threads for them.

I objected to the moderators when Warren's last thread was closed, and nothing was done. I didn't even receive a reply.

Well, I object to behavior in this thread, also.

Moderators, please follow your own rules. You did not permit this behavior when it was against a friend of yours. Do not permit it now. There is nothing objectionable in the original post. It is the type of thing supposedly AT enthusiasts should be interested in and support.

sherrill
07-03-2007, 13:19
So thread drift disturbs you more than his illegal activities?:-?

To answer your question, yes, in this context, it does. I said I don't always agree with Mr. Doyle, but as Ender suggests, that should be directly addressed in a thread for that subject in and of itself.

the goat
07-03-2007, 13:29
Yeah, he's going to talk about the ethics of filling a bear box with all your gear so no one else can use it, and the ethics of standing on a shelter platform pissing off the edge, and the ethics of appropriating for your own use canned water intended for LA hurricane victims.

lol, you also forgot the ethics of:
- trying to move into the palmerton hostel indefinitely & then complaining to the caretaker that the free hostel isn't accomodating enough.
-sleeping in shelter privies while slackpacking.
- farting in someone's face while pissing off the edge of a shelter.
- berating those who disagree w/ you ideologically.

emerald
07-03-2007, 13:39
Frosty, I thought the Kennebec thread should be closed because it served its intended purpose. This thread has too. Someone please close it!

I now realize you were not likely referring to the thread I mentioned, since that thread was started by someone else.

Alligator
07-03-2007, 13:50
...
The last thread that Warren posted was attacked in the same way, but the moderators did not act the same way that they did with The Weasel, deleting inappropriat topics and warning people. Instead they closed Warren's thread. The message is pretty clear. If a small clique wants someone off this forum, they need only highjack every thread and have the moderators close the threads for them.

I objected to the moderators when Warren's last thread was closed, and nothing was done. I didn't even receive a reply.

Well, I object to behavior in this thread, also.

Moderators, please follow your own rules. You did not permit this behavior when it was against a friend of yours. Do not permit it now. There is nothing objectionable in the original post. It is the type of thing supposedly AT enthusiasts should be interested in and support.
1. There is no moderator for the General Forum besides Admin. That could mean that they have not even read this thread as of yet. Moderators only have privileges in the forum they moderate.
2. I was out hiking, so the thread you mentioned Frosty ran a different course than it would have had I been online. I did not respond to your objection because admin trumps mods and the thread was already closed. I did have to wonder though why is WB getting solicitations for a circle expedition three years in advance:-? ?
3. Warren does a lot of trolling on this site. He specifically drops unrelated, controversial tidbits into threads. Don't be fooled in that regard. He's been doing it for years. He is not Mr. Innocent. Ender, I very much disagree with you. In fairness, in this particular thread, he is not trolling.
4. I did not acquiesce to The Weasel's positions.

leeki pole
07-03-2007, 15:06
I think we need to get back to the business of hiking. That's why we're here (at least some of us) and what we do and love.

Have a Happy and safe 4th of July, all.:sun

warren doyle
07-03-2007, 15:55
Wow!
By the way, internegators are more than welcome to attend any of my free and open to the public programs, whether it be at all the 25 ALDHA Gatherings (except the 25th) including the upcoming Gathering at Gettysburg; all the 21 Damascus Trail Days (except the first); and, the Lees-McRae College programs. I always allow time to answer questions from the audience during these presentations.
People are also welcome to visit on-campus for free advice as well. It has been nice to have several hikers stop by this spring and summer to do research with my archives or just to 'talk/plan' trail.
Last Sunday evening's presentation was pleasant and I'm looking forward to sharing Don West's life and poetry this Sunday and then my trail stories on July 15th before I head to NE to hike for three weeks
Thanks to the several folks who have offered their thoughtful, objective posts to this thread. You truly offset those few, but very vocal, mean-spirited posters.

Jester2000
07-03-2007, 20:52
You know, I think Warren has a lot to offer prospective hikers and thru-hikers, and I wish him well because of the good information he does pass on. The funniest thing about all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is that between people posting rude responses and people complaining about rude responses (and how those who own this site are trying to "drive him off" by. . . um, doing nothing at all), Warren's post has managed to bounce to the top of the "New Posts" category over and over, with no effort by him.

So as it turns out, more people clicked on this thread than otherwise would have, and more people viewed his thread starter (you know, the one with the relevant info) than might have if this hadn't all gone on so long.

So all of you who are critical of thread drifters and Warren-haters, know that Warren has benefitted from their attention. See? We're all one big, happy, loud, obnoxious family.

Skidsteer
07-03-2007, 21:14
All part of Warren's evil plan.

That bastard.

Heater
07-03-2007, 21:27
All part of Warren's evil plan.

That bastard.

And he is using us as pawns in this magnificant scheme? :confused:

I feel so used. :(

That BASTARD! :mad:

ed bell
07-03-2007, 22:12
I love hiking.:cool:

dixicritter
07-03-2007, 22:41
The difference, of course, is that The Weasel is a friend of Attroll and Sgt Rock, and Warren Doyle is not, so the harrassment continues.

What needs to happen is for the moderators to follow the rules they set up, and moderate.

Instead they are trying to drive Doyle away.

The last thread that Warren posted was attacked in the same way, but the moderators did not act the same way that they did with The Weasel, deleting inappropriat topics and warning people. Instead they closed Warren's thread. The message is pretty clear. If a small clique wants someone off this forum, they need only highjack every thread and have the moderators close the threads for them.

I objected to the moderators when Warren's last thread was closed, and nothing was done. I didn't even receive a reply.

Well, I object to behavior in this thread, also.

Moderators, please follow your own rules. You did not permit this behavior when it was against a friend of yours. Do not permit it now. There is nothing objectionable in the original post. It is the type of thing supposedly AT enthusiasts should be interested in and support.

Frosty, I've closed a few of Warren's threads myself and don't recall ever hearing from you.

I am in no way, shape or form trying to run ANYONE away from WhiteBlaze, never have been, and never will be. I have banned trolls who have spammed the boards, and will do it again.

I have closed down other people's threads in much the same manner as I have closed Warren's for some of the same reasons... the thread disintegrated into nothing but personal attacks, petty name calling and it had gone well beyond serving it's purpose.

Attroll, SGT Rock and myself have discussed the deleting of posts and have pretty much all agreed that if y'all have the guts to make fools out of yourselves by posting some of the things you post, then by golly those posts should stand for all to see. The only exception being violations of the site rules and judgment calls on our parts. THAT is why posts have not been deleted, rather threads have been closed down.

All that being said, this constant trolling after Warren does need to stop! Warren has every right to post just like every other member here. It matters not who knows whom, WhiteBlaze.net is for everyone equally. I don't care who you are.

NOW... enough is enough... don't make me close this one down too.

the onondaga kid
07-03-2007, 22:43
Don't tell me you've never read his manifesto and numerous posts admitting to same?::rolleyes:

Some of us are genuinely interested in the content on this site that's helpfull to the average hiker, and aren't interested in reading posts by those users who prefer trolling the site looking for opprotunities to be over critical and condescending. (not refering to you old fhart, just those who would derail a thread like this) The more I read the posts on this site the more my desire to get out on the traill and meet new people slips away. I sincerely hope it's the anonymity of the internet that encourages the rediculous behavior I've seen on this forum over the last few weeks since I've joined, and the people who express this behavior are either more respectfull and reasonable in person, or at least I hope the majority of them are just blowing hot air and aren't the experienced trail goers they would seem to be.

In either case, if I see much more of this I may just resign myself to sticking to registers, logbooks and campfires for my discussion.

Jester2000
07-03-2007, 22:51
Some of us are genuinely interested in the content on this site that's helpfull to the average hiker, and aren't interested in reading posts by those users who prefer trolling the site looking for opprotunities to be over critical and condescending. (not refering to you old fhart, just those who would derail a thread like this) The more I read the posts on this site the more my desire to get out on the traill and meet new people slips away. I sincerely hope it's the anonymity of the internet that encourages the rediculous behavior I've seen on this forum over the last few weeks since I've joined, and the people who express this behavior are either more respectfull and reasonable in person, or at least I hope the majority of them are just blowing hot air and aren't the experienced trail goers they would seem to be.

In either case, if I see much more of this I may just resign myself to sticking to registers, logbooks and campfires for my discussion.

No, no, no, kid. Threads like this are scientifically designed to make you want to get out on the trail rather than sit in front of a computer. When you do, you realize that all of these annoying idiots online (myself included) are, in person, interesting, charming idiots (I won't include myself in that yet -- you'll be the judge, hopefully).

And that's when you'll discover that you value not just Warren, but his detractors and supporters as well, and even the people who don't care about him at all! It'll be amazing! Seriously! And then you'll go home and get on your computer and get depressed all over again. But that'll just lead to more hiking! It's a brilliant, insidious plan. And now you're a part of it. . .

Heater
07-03-2007, 23:34
Attroll, SGT Rock and myself have discussed the deleting of posts and have pretty much all agreed that if y'all have the guts to make fools out of yourselves by posting some of the things you post, then by golly those posts should stand for all to see.

...and thank you very much for that! :jump

the onondaga kid
07-04-2007, 00:11
Jester, there's not much that could keep me off the trail at this point, I'm not going for the people, I hike for the views and the journey, and I usually bring my good company with me rather than searching for it once I head out. I'm just not so sure I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people on this forum.

Tin Man
07-04-2007, 00:28
Warren,

At the risk of being labeled an "internegator", do your free programs include a message to attend your commercial programs? Freebies are a great marketing approach that can be very productive in generating new, paying customers. Perhaps if WB had a commercial forum for service providers there would be less controversy over self-promotion.

Other "internegators", please speak softly.

Thanks.

Heater
07-04-2007, 00:31
Warren,

At the risk of being labeled an "internegator", do your free programs include a message to attend your commercial programs? Freebies are a great marketing approach that can be very productive in generating new, paying customers. Perhaps if WB had a commercial forum for service providers there would be less controversy over self-promotion.

Other "internegators", please speak softly.

Thanks.


here here.

Tin Man
07-04-2007, 00:36
Onondaga kid,

Having completed a little over 300 miles of the AT (a mere pittance) over the past 5 years, I can say that most people you will meet out there are very friendly and helpful. I have met many section hikers and a few thru-hikers and they are all very nice. Of course, some are probably the same people who cut you off in traffic or flame you on the Internet. Hikers, boaters, and other recreationers are very friendly when they are in their element and away from everyday stress, so don't be afraid to stop and shoot the breeze.

Nightwalker
07-04-2007, 00:54
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it. I believe there are more of you out there than of them. This faith supports my restraint.

Warren,

Please realize that not all folks who occasionally argue with you or get hot under the collar at you are your enemies or full-time detractors. I get upset at you now and then, but I respect a lot that you've done, especially starting ALDHA.

I'd really like to meet you sometime, and would hope that you know that I'm not argumentative at all in person. I just have this stupid, nasty habit of sometimes losing my manners on the internet. I'd be willing to wager that there are others that are the same way.

Peace,
Frank

TJ aka Teej
07-04-2007, 07:47
...and he's almost never the one to bring up his illegal activities.
Ender, Warren was the first to bring up his illegal activities here on White Blaze, and he constantly continues to do so. As an ALDHA member who endorses the Endangered Services campaign, something Doyle sneers at, I hope most ATers understand that his trumpeting of his anti-Appalachian Trail actions aren't what ALDHA is about. And as far as 'hijacking' is concerned, Warren is the leading Internet Terrorist in that regard, every thread he joins he tries to turn into a 'Hey! Lookit me!' ego-fart.
You may see it differently.

rickb
07-04-2007, 08:09
Will this program include a section on ethics, or not?

Here are two good books on Wilderness/Backwoods Ethics if you are looking to learn something on the subject:

http://www.countrymanpress.com/titles/WildernessEthics.html

Rick B

warren doyle
07-04-2007, 09:29
Advocating illegal activities

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 09:41
let the flaming begin!:)

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 09:51
let the flaming begin!:)

i bet jack has the biggest flame.:D

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 10:07
Actually, Wolf, I was gonna stay outta this one. But since you mentioned it....

This thread is hysterically funny.....

A well-known hiker and alleged "educator" acknowledges (and not for the first time) that he eats food in restaurants that he has no intention of paying for; he attends movie screenings without buying tickets for them; and doesn't pay for fees and services along the Trail unless he feels like it.

And this same guy continually complains that he's persecuted here whenever he posts, and a coterie of his admirers repeatedly complain about this persecution, even demanding that website administrators do something about it.

Note to the people complaining about this "persecution":

Re-read Post#57 above.

If anyone else came on Whiteblaze and said it was cool to act like a bum in a restaurant, avoid user fees while hiking the A.T., or defraud businesses by using their goods and services without paying for them, well if anyone else came on Whiteblaze even ONCE and advocated such stuff, he'd be immediately and roundly condemned.

Yet there's at least one individual who has not only bragged of this sort of behavior here at WB.....but he does it repeatedly, even gleefully. He thinks its cute and funny. He thinks it displays "independence."

And then in his next breath he deplores the fact that many of his posts provoke angry responses.

Note to Mr. Doyle and his defenders: Has it ever occurred to you that there's a connection between comments like those in Post#57 and the posts that criticize Doyle? Has it occurred to you that posts like this one encourage---even demand---some sort of response? Do you think it's OK to come onto WB and tell folks it's cool to cheat, freeload, and steal?

Well, it isn't

Not all of Doyle's critics and detractors jump on EVERY thing he says, or attack him EVERY time he posts. I'm a major critic of his, but this thread had almost sixty comments before I joined the discussion; the folks that say that there is a group of folks who never fail to jump on Doyle are actually wrong.

We only jump on him after he says foolish things.

Which he does frequently, by the way.

Note to Warren: If you're sick and tired of people attacking you for mooching, freeloading, and stealing, there's actually a quite easy remedy: Stop mooching, freeloading and stealing. Or if you're incapable of this, well, stop bragging about it on the Internet, at lectures, and elsewhere.

Note to Warren's defenders: If you're sick and tired of people attacking your hero, well, maybe YOU can get him to stop behaving like this.

But this "He's being persecuted!" stuff is pretty funny.

If someone goes onto a public Internet forum, repeatedly, and loudly proclaims "I steal!", well he's kinda forfeited his right to act offended when someone says "Buddy, you're a thief."

Persecution my ass.

Was that good enough, Wolf? :D

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 10:10
much shorter than i thought it would be. i eat leftovers off tables too

warren doyle
07-04-2007, 10:18
addendum to aforementioned personal trail ethics:

1a) I shalt only eat leftovers in restaurants after I have purchased, and eaten, a regular meal.

saimyoji
07-04-2007, 10:24
Wasn't there an incident with a publicly read poem disrespecting those who died on 9/11 or something?

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 10:28
The fact that one has acted like a regular patron one minute does not give one the right to act like a vagrant bum in the next moment. Are we supposed to applaud that Mr. Doyle buys a "regular" meal first? What does he want, a medal?

It's not "regular" meals that are being discussed, Mr. Doyle.

Grazing through public eateries in search of scrap food left on plates by strangers....and then surreptitiously eating or pocketing this food is not "regular" behavior.

What is so difficult about this for you to understand?

Likewise, your paying for a ticket for the two o'clock screening in Theater #1 doesn't give you the right to sneak into the four o'clock screening in Theater#2, and your attempt to justify this by saying "I never take a seat that is full!" is ridiculous. Um, note to Mr. Doyle. The right to sit in a seat and watch a movie is EXACTLY what these people are selling. Your magnanimously telling us that you only take "empty" seats is pitiful. Guess what Mr. Doyle.....ya know how movie theaters work? It's like this: Before a film starts, ALL the seats in the theater are empty. Then some of them get occupied by people who have paid for the privilege to sit in 'em. If you sit in one without paying for the seat, then you're a thief.

Got it?

saimyoji
07-04-2007, 10:32
Wasn't there an incident with a publicly read poem disrespecting those who died on 9/11 or something?



http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6242

warren doyle
07-04-2007, 10:40
Especially post #1 of that thread.

TinAbbey
07-04-2007, 10:41
is this cyber hiking?

Heater
07-04-2007, 10:46
What's Independence Day without a few fireworks?

dixicritter
07-04-2007, 11:44
Time to settle down or this one gets closed down too.

TJ aka Teej
07-04-2007, 12:04
Wasn't there an incident with a publicly read poem disrespecting those who died on 9/11 or something?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6242
Read post #3.
And here's my post #15:


THAT was the poem that has sent you into a 3 year tizzy. I can sometimes be a master of over reaction. It takes one to know one. You are the King.

Context, Blue Jay. Context and style.
Less than a month after 9-11, while bodies still smoldered beneath the ruins.
We were 'escaping' to our hiker's Gathering, to be with friends. We had exchanged our 9-11 stories, I told people about my cousin's boy who was in the Pentagon that morning, about the pilot from a neighboring town, about my company losing three employees - I listened while friends told me of their losses, their feelings..
And then it was time for opening ceremonies - the calling of class years that would go back in time until just a few stood - until just one stood. The highlight of the Gatherings for many of us.
A few speakers in, and it was Warren's turn at the mic. After shouting a few horrid "poems" at us, Doyle proclaims that "this is the poem Don West would read to you if he were here!", and then Doyle delivers the lines yelling at the mic in his clenched fist, pop-eyed, red faced, fist pumping in the air, with his high pitched shouting turning into demented sort of screeching. Dozens of people walk out on the founder of their organization, and an angry crowd outside almost becomes a mob.

Months later he writes us a weak "I did nothing wrong, but if an apology would make you feel better here it is" letter. And then Doyle comes to this website and brings up the subject of his shameful behavior that night himself in a thread about Peace Pilgrim;




Gee, I wonder if BJ would have yelled "Shame!" at her if she spoke at a Gathering. Interesting thought?

We had let it go, Blue Jay. No one here had mentioned it after Warren joined us and started posting. Until Warren himself decided he needed some attention, that is.
------------------------------
end of this flashback to 2004...

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 12:11
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6242
Read post #3.

It's the same old story, same old song and dance, my friend!:banana

emerald
07-04-2007, 12:16
is this cyber hiking?

No, it doesn't have anything to do with hiking IMO.


Has it ever occurred to you that there's a connection between comments like those in Post#57 and the posts that criticize Doyle? Has it occurred to you that posts like this one encourage---even demand---some sort of response? Do you think it's OK to come onto WB and tell folks it's cool to cheat, freeload, and steal?

Well, it isn't.

I understand the relationship, Jack. I don't consider myself one of Warren's defenders in the event you were including me.


Not all of Doyle's critics and detractors jump on EVERY thing he says, or attack him EVERY time he posts. I'm a major critic of his, but this thread had almost sixty comments before I joined the discussion; the folks that say that there is a group of folks who never fail to jump on Doyle are actually wrong.

We only jump on him after he says foolish things.

You waited until his comments invited your reply. That unfortunately we must live with so long as Warren continues to post in this manner he does in #57. Others did so preemptively and that's what some, myself included, objected to.


What's Independence Day without a few fireworks?

In Pennsylvania, it would involve people complying with the laws of the Commonwealth and less trips to emergency rooms.:p I forgot to mention, it would also mean lower health insurance premiums for everyone.

dixicritter
07-04-2007, 12:22
OK TJ... want to quote that thread... here's some wise words I found from it that I feel need repeated (post #22)...


I've said this before, but apparently no one believed it -- or perhaps just didn't notice.

But I can't think of anything more destructive of ALDHA than this continuing public bickering. Autumn tends to be a busy time of year for me. But until this year I have always thought about attending and trying to rearrange things so I possibly might.

Weary

I happen to agree with what Weary says here. All the public bickering, and attacking of each other is definitely NOT good for the ALDHA image. Something y'all should really think seriously about.

TJ aka Teej
07-04-2007, 12:25
All the public bickering, and attacking of each other is definitely NOT good for the ALDHA image. Something y'all should really think seriously about.
We have. And our elections prove it.
edit: and by the way dixi, I thought by quoting old stuff was a way to 'settle down' instead of just typing anew. Sorry it didn't work.

dixicritter
07-04-2007, 12:26
We have. And our elections prove it.

Yet y'all still do it here.

Wonder
07-04-2007, 12:43
I haven't read this whole thing, and I'm not going to....I know what it says.....same crap over and over.
Warren, I'm hoping to make it to the event on the 15th.....I've enjoyed your storytelling in the past, and I would like to hear it again. If I'm not working, I'll do what I can to get there

TJ aka Teej
07-04-2007, 12:56
Yet y'all still do it here.
Tip o' the iceberg.
dixi, if I told you all that went down it'd burn off both your ears.

Warren's been using WhiteBlaze (that means using you, using Rock, using Troll...) to re-write his personal history in an attempt to garner sympathy and support from the uninformed. When he compares himself to a Jew during the holocaust with Park Rangers playing the role of Nazis on this website you think WB members should say nothing? You call objecting to that "bickering that hurts ALDHA"? Under Doyle's influence WB has become something I don't know if I can support anymore.

The Old Fhart
07-04-2007, 13:13
DixiCritter: Whenever someone who is a convicted criminal, and has spent time in in jail for crimes committed on the trail, comes on WB and publishes a "how I steal and how you can do it too" manifesto, if that isn't removed or censored, than I'd consider it the duty of everyone else who really cares about the trail to point out that that sort of illegal activity is wrong, hurts the A.T., and all other hikers.

While WD calls this illegal activity his "personal trail-related ethics" it is illegal, pure and simple. He even admits in his list that this is illegal yet the list still stays in his post on WB. If the only way to get him to stop is to close the thread, so be it. This type of behavior is destructive for the A.T. and affects all hikers adversely. If you care for the trail, remove his garbage.

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 14:05
Instead of closing the thread, howzabout a simple policy statement directed at everyone here at WB and NOT aimed at just one individual......something like:

"Whiteblaze is primarily a place to share and exchange useful information on hiking and on the Appalachian Trail. It is not in the best interests of the Trail, or the Trail community, to come on to Whiteblaze in order to encourage criminal behavior, or to educate people on the best ways they can engage in this behavior. Postings of this sort are to be discouraged."

Bottom line is that if people don't get the message that such sort of behavior is bad for the Trail and bad for other hikers, well they're gonna keep doing it, as well as encouraging others to do it. I understand very well indeed that website administrators (i.e Dix, Rock, and Troll) really don't like this bickering and nastiness, and I;m sorry they have to deal with it, but the bottom line is that if ANY person came here and said such things, they'd be roundly criticized for their statements and behavior.

Nobody should get a "pass" on this.

The best way for this unpleasant subject to disappear from Whiteblaze is if the people that like to mis-behave and brag about it would either cease this behavior, or at least have the tact and maturity to stop crowing about it here.

But when it's mentioned.....and bragged about as tho it were some kind of revolutionary act of free-spiritedness....well, people are gonna comment on it.

There's an old legal maxim that comes to mind: "Qui tacet consentit" which means "silence implies consent."

When a well-known figure in the Trail comunity says outrageous things, and says them repeatedly, then it's perfectly just if others add their comments and opinions on the matter. It would be wrong NOT to comment. It needs to be very clearly said that this sort of thing is NOT the norm, it is NOT good for the Trail, and it is NOT acceptable.

If these well-known figures and their apologists get all bent out of shape over this, well there's a simple remedy: If you don't wish to be publicly upbraided for your words or deeds, then temper your comments or change your behavior.

Pretty simple, no?

emerald
07-04-2007, 14:20
Self-moderation is a wonderful concept. I'm sure our website administrators and moderators must agree.;)

Tha Wookie
07-04-2007, 14:24
OK TJ... want to quote that thread... here's some wise words I found from it that I feel need repeated (post #22)...

I happen to agree with what Weary says here. All the public bickering, and attacking of each other is definitely NOT good for the ALDHA image. Something y'all should really think seriously about.


I couldn't agree more, Dixi. I've been saying that for years everytime the Swift Canoe Veterans led by you know who start the same derailing comments to distract from Warren's positive contributions to AT hiking.

I actually refused to go to Gatherings because of the Swift Canoe Veterans. I only went this past year because the ATC asked me to help in a discussion panel. They do a lot more harm to ALHDA than good in their self-righteous Warren hunt. The organization wouldn't even exist without him, the irony.

And as far as the poem he read.... God bless him.

Many people have died for our freedom of speech. They died overseas so peaceful warriors at home can stand up, even in the toughest times, and question the way things are going. One may disagree with the sentiment, but to drag the discussion over years of internet public pages does no one good. In fact, it does a lot of harm to ALDHA.

Warren, if you're reading this, then I suggest that you start posting your threads in the "straight forward" forum, for the sake of ALDHA.

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 14:37
Wook:

Your loyalty to a friend is commendable, but please take a moment and tell us all how encouraging people to lie, cheat, mooch, and steal is good for ALDHA or for anyone else in theTrail community. Tell us, if you will, why you think these repeated comments of Mr. Doyle's are "positive contributions to AT hiking."

I look forward to your response.

And please note.....it's been said quite plainly that when Warren says "positive" things here, nobody, myself included, has anything to him, or about him.

The problem, Wook, is with the NON-positive comments.

Of which, truth be told, there are an awful lot.

Oh, and I'm sorry you've been avoiding Gatherings recently. Because of your absence you wouldn't have firsthand knowledge of how great and successful they've been lately, especially 2006, which Warren Doyle both boycotted and predicted would be a disaster. (He also threatened to intervene with Concord College officials to have ALDHA denied access to College facilities unless he was permitted to help run the event that year, but I guess you don't know about this. Just another one of his "positive" contributions to ALDHA and the community, eh?)

But the 2006 Gathering was, in fact, a great success, despite the absence of ALDHA's founder.

Now, THAT's irony.

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 14:41
Posts #78, #79,#80. The holy internegator trinity all in a row. Warren sure knows how to wad y'alls panties.:D

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 14:44
Oh, and I'm sorry you've been avoiding Gatherings recently. Because of your absence you wouldn't have firsthand knowledge of how great and successful they've been lately, especially 2006, which Warren Doyle both boycotted and predicted would be a disaster.

where and when exactly did he say that? prove it

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 14:55
Ask anyone on the ALDHA Board, Wolf. Ask Stacy, Jester, Bill O'Brien, anyone else. Speaking of panties in a wad, Warren was all bent out of shape because other folks were chosen to co-ordinate the Gathering. (And they performed magnificently, by the way). He both predicted the Gathering would fail without himself at the helm, and actually threatened to contact college officials in case they wanted to "rethink" their connection with ALDHA.

You're gonna doubt me anyway, Wolf, but if you REALLY want to get the facts on this and aren't merely puffing wind and stirring the s***pot, talk to anyone on the Board.

They'll confirm the above.

Then YOU can come back and tell us what you found out.

I think that covers it.

dixicritter
07-04-2007, 15:16
Instead of closing the thread, howzabout a simple policy statement directed at everyone here at WB and NOT aimed at just one individual......something like:

"Whiteblaze is primarily a place to share and exchange useful information on hiking and on the Appalachian Trail. It is not in the best interests of the Trail, or the Trail community, to come on to Whiteblaze in order to encourage criminal behavior, or to educate people on the best ways they can engage in this behavior. Postings of this sort are to be discouraged."


We've tried this tactic on many, many occasions only to be ignored and have the threads continue to downgrade into a complete and utter mess just as this one has and still have to close them down anyway.



Bottom line is that if people don't get the message that such sort of behavior is bad for the Trail and bad for other hikers, well they're gonna keep doing it, as well as encouraging others to do it. I understand very well indeed that website administrators (i.e Dix, Rock, and Troll) really don't like this bickering and nastiness, and I;m sorry they have to deal with it, but the bottom line is that if ANY person came here and said such things, they'd be roundly criticized for their statements and behavior.

Nobody should get a "pass" on this.

No one does get a pass. The rules here apply to every member.


The best way for this unpleasant subject to disappear from Whiteblaze is if the people that like to mis-behave and brag about it would either cease this behavior, or at least have the tact and maturity to stop crowing about it here.

But when it's mentioned.....and bragged about as tho it were some kind of revolutionary act of free-spiritedness....well, people are gonna comment on it.

There's an old legal maxim that comes to mind: "Qui tacet consentit" which means "silence implies consent."

When a well-known figure in the Trail comunity says outrageous things, and says them repeatedly, then it's perfectly just if others add their comments and opinions on the matter. It would be wrong NOT to comment. It needs to be very clearly said that this sort of thing is NOT the norm, it is NOT good for the Trail, and it is NOT acceptable.

If these well-known figures and their apologists get all bent out of shape over this, well there's a simple remedy: If you don't wish to be publicly upbraided for your words or deeds, then temper your comments or change your behavior.

Pretty simple, no?

Actually there is a simple answer to this problem, stop hi-jacking people's threads. Nowhere in the opening post of this thread do I see Warren Doyle posting anything about anything illegal, immoral or anything detrimental to the hiking community, yet once again he has been poked and jabbed at until he posted exactly what y'all wanted to hear so y'all could say "see how bad Warren Doyle is?"

Like I said in an earlier post on this thread, Warren Doyle has just as much right to post here as any other member. He also has just as much right to make a fool out of himself in his posts if he so chooses, and it is up to the rest of the members to decide for themselves what they think and feel about Warren Doyle. It is not up to a select few to do the thinking for the entire membership.

All someone has to do is run a search of the site, all the information is already there over and over again... hundreds of times, I know this because I've been reading it since 2003. So I know a good bit about the history of all this, I'm not ignorant to what this little dispute is all about.

In conclusion, I will say this only once more, we the admin are not here to babysit y'all. (And yes, Shades of Gray, we do appreciate self moderation very much so.) The three of us all have very busy lives, please remember that.

neighbor dave
07-04-2007, 15:44
:-? the course this thread has taken is piss poor.
some folks need to get a life other than the A.T.
seems as though that's all they have in their lives and it's blurred their vision and fogged their minds.:-?

Tha Wookie
07-04-2007, 15:47
Wook:

Your loyalty to a friend is commendable, but please take a moment and tell us all how encouraging people to lie, cheat, mooch, and steal is good for ALDHA or for anyone else in theTrail community. Tell us, if you will, why you think these repeated comments of Mr. Doyle's are "positive contributions to AT hiking."

I look forward to your response.

And please note.....it's been said quite plainly that when Warren says "positive" things here, nobody, myself included, has anything to him, or about him.

The problem, Wook, is with the NON-positive comments.

Of which, truth be told, there are an awful lot.

Oh, and I'm sorry you've been avoiding Gatherings recently. Because of your absence you wouldn't have firsthand knowledge of how great and successful they've been lately, especially 2006, which Warren Doyle both boycotted and predicted would be a disaster. (He also threatened to intervene with Concord College officials to have ALDHA denied access to College facilities unless he was permitted to help run the event that year, but I guess you don't know about this. Just another one of his "positive" contributions to ALDHA and the community, eh?)

But the 2006 Gathering was, in fact, a great success, despite the absence of ALDHA's founder.

Now, THAT's irony.


Jack,

I WAS at the 2006 gathering. In fact, I spoke to you, on quite a few occasions, and it was clear who I was in our conversations. I'd like to add that I very much enjoyed talking with you, and BSing around the fire with everyone as I always do, and I have quite a lot of respect for you and what you do for other hikers. I'm a bit surprised that you forgot I was there. But not entirely surprised. I see no reason to explain why I think you forgot I was there here on the internet, because I have no interest in badmouthing you. But just so you know, I did enjoy the Gathering, and I saw that the loudmouths here who constantly spout negativity towards ALHA's founder in the name of self-righteousness thankfully constitute a very SMALL minority. In fact, every single person I met was a joy to be around (including yourself), and I'm sorry I probably won't be able to make it this year due to a busy October travel schedule.

ALDHA is a wonderful and important organization. I believe it deserves better representation on this site.

If you can't see Warren's positive contributions, then think about it while you're in Gettysburg.

As far as the rest for which you request a response, Dixi Critter summed it up better than I could, so see her last post.

I look forward to seeing you .... and Warren, at future ALDHA Gatherings!

neighbor dave
07-04-2007, 16:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rssxrTmpm48

Lone Wolf
07-04-2007, 16:30
Ask anyone on the ALDHA Board, Wolf. Ask Stacy, Jester, Bill O'Brien, anyone else.
no. i'm asking you cuz you made the statement so back it up with facts. if you didn't hear it from warren then i call BS.

warren doyle
07-04-2007, 16:42
Yes, Lone Wolf (#83), I hit for the cycle. In a few short hours on Independence Day, the Word Wall score is now:

The Internegators (a.k.a. the Holy Trinity - posts 58, 64, 70, 77, 78, 79 and, with a special litter award, posts #82 and #85): 8

The pop-eyed, red-faced, fist pumping, high-pitched shouting, demented screecher; and, the shameful angry mob producer; and, the lying, cheating, freeloading, stealing, mooching, bragging, fraudulent foolish convicted criminal/thief; and, surreptitious grazer; and, finally, cute and funny vagrant bum: 0

Wonder (post #76) - I hope you can attend and bring some of your Damascus friends with you. It is only a 75-minute drive from Damascus to Banner Elk. Thanks for your kind comments.

Tha Wookie (posts #81, 88) - As always, your considerate, insightful and thoughtful posts are always appreciated. I really don't think it matters where I post. I do try to start new threads under the designated WB categories.

Lone Wolf (post #84) - Maybe he has this info in another one of his register entries.

dixicritter #86 - Great post.

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2007, 18:02
You call it BS, Wolf?

Well I can't help but notice that NOWHERE in his above post did Mr. Doyle deny anything I said.

Which you think he might've done, were he offended or bothered by mis-
statements or mis-truths.

Oh, and note to Wook: I'm glad Warren finds your posts considerate, insightful, and thoughtful.

But your post was also incomplete, Wook.

While I appreciated reading Dix's comments, it doesn't alter the fact that you were asked a simple and direct question: Do you personally believe that encouraging people to lie, cheat, mooch and steal is good for the hiking community, good for ALDHA and is a "positive contribution" to the A.T?

Do you really believe that?

If so, please say so. And if you DON'T believe that is the case, please acknowledge that.

Real simple question, Wook. Why are you finding it so difficult to answer?

But ya know, let it go if you want, Wook. You've made it clear what you think about this, so have I, so has Mr. Doyle, and most important, so has Dix. So I'll happily leave this thread for awhile and go enjoy the rest of the holiday here in Harpers Ferry. Hope your holiday is good as well.

warren doyle
07-04-2007, 18:09
For an explanation of my non-response, please refer to my 'ethics' statement #6 contained in my post #57.

rickb
07-04-2007, 19:18
I would like to commend Mr. Tarlin for not feeling a need to mention that even though Warren Doyle has thru hiked the AT many more times than anyone in history, most of Warren's hikes were done without a pack.

Much better to stick with the crimes against humanity committed by this "recreational walker".