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highway
09-27-2002, 11:39
Self protection on the trail appears to be a controversial subject, but I wonder just how significant it really is. Please vote and let us all know.

Peaks
10-05-2002, 07:58
Kinda a deceiving question, or maybe the answers are.

Do I carry a knife? Yes, but do I carry it for protection? heck no. It's only got a 1 1/2 inch blade or so. By the time I got it out of my pack, it would be too late to defind my self with it.

Do people really carry poles for protection? Or for some other obvious reason?

chris
10-24-2002, 08:54
I was thinking more like some prophylactics.

Jack Tarlin
10-25-2002, 15:13
Unless one has taken the time and trouble to learn how to use them properly, "protection" aids such as mace, knives, etc. might help your peace of mind, but in fact, probably pose an equal threat to the owner. The single best tool for self-protection in the backcountry is simple commnn sense.

chomp
10-31-2002, 16:10
When I started the AT, my father wanted to make sure that I had a big knife to fend off larger animals, such as wild boar. Truth is, unless whatever you carry is (1) immediatly accessable and (2) you know how to use it properly, you are probably better off without it. Clanging hiking poles together can be helpful in scaring off bears and other animals, but I wouldn't want to try and spear a black bear with my Leki.

-chomp

chris
11-05-2002, 17:24
I saw a fair number of people carrying pepper spray to fend off dogs. There seemed to be a lot of out of control dogs in the south, so this may have been a good idea for people who are not all that experienced in dealing with dogs. The personal sized ones usually come with their own belt pouch. By the way, don't entertain any ideas that personal pepper spray will affect a bear in the least.

Dirtyoldman
11-29-2002, 06:57
I bet bear spray would get a dogs attention!

Jack Tarlin
11-30-2002, 16:26
Common sense.

Lone Wolf
11-30-2002, 16:29
Glock 9mm

gravityman
12-12-2002, 15:09
Sometimes when I am being silly (or am down for whatever reason) I make my wife hold out her arms, I put the poles under her arms from behind, start making plane sounds "RRRRRRMMMMMM" then start the straffing run : "RAT-A-TAT-TAT-TAT" It always cheers me up! :)

I swear on my next thru hike we are going to do that coming into every shelter! :)

Gravity Man

squirrel bait
11-11-2003, 09:53
Hiking staff, osage orange, no BELL.

smokymtnsteve
11-11-2003, 10:20
condoms....

icemanat95
11-11-2003, 12:34
Unless one has taken the time and trouble to learn how to use them properly, "protection" aids such as mace, knives, etc. might help your peace of mind, but in fact, probably pose an equal threat to the owner. The single best tool for self-protection in the backcountry is simple commnn sense.


Jack is pretty close to dead on here.

If you are going to carry anything for self-defense, you ought to spend a bit of time learning how to use it.

Basic rule of knife fighting: Everyone gets cut, because to use your weapon on an opponent, you've got to get in close enough for them to use their weapon(s) on you. In a real knife fight between skilled combatants, the end comes real fast, and one goes away in a body bag and the other in an ambulance. A skilled fighter against an unskilled fighter is even faster.

Your best tool in any self-defense situation, is your brain. Learn how to spot trouble before it escalates into a fight and get the hell away as fast as you can. Unless someone else is in danger, or you have no chance of escape, running away is a perfectly reasonable way of surviving.

Of course if a fight is unavoidable, any weapon you can get your hands on is vastly superior to no weapons at all. Hiking poles, sticks, rocks, dirt, lit stoves, unlit stove fuel, pots of boiling water of hot food, a pack, your pocket knife (a 1.5 inch blade makes a bigger wound than your fingernails) keys, a spoon, a pen, a notebook, pine needles, leaves, etc. all become damaging or distracting weapons.

Look around yourself right now where you sit and see how many potential weapons you can find. Even relatively innocent objects may offer some defensive properties. Even a credit card can be turned into a single use knife capable of delivering a serious cut. Got a CD drive in your computer? Have a spare AOL disk hanging around? Break it and see how hard and pointy the shards are.

At various times and in various places, I have carried all of the tools listed above for defensive purposes. In daily wear, on trail and off, I carry a very sturdy, shaving sharp folding knife and I pray to God that I never have to use it defensively, but I'd rather have it than not.

rickb
11-11-2003, 13:09
A staff for dogs and rabbid racoons. My wife (though technically I don't carry her) to protect me against myself.

steve hiker
11-11-2003, 13:57
I'm not worried about people, but have used bear spray against dogs. Have also thought about carrying a small squirt bottle of ammonia for dogs, which I think would work pretty well. Imagine them getting a snout or eye full of that stuff.

Might also work against panhandling bears, even the really aggressive ones who've spent time bumming on the street of NYC. :-?

RagingHampster
11-11-2003, 15:05
Holy $#!t, 2 people pack heat on the Appalachian Trail?!?!

Anyhoo, I have a 1" long blade on my Swiss Army Knife, and my Hiking Poles. Having said that, I don't think I would ever get at my knife in time, and the wounds it would cause would be minor.

I'm the guy you'll see swinging his poles like a madman!

But... If I ever have the chance to hike in Glacier National Park or Alaska, I wouldn't think of traveling into the woods without a shotgun. But the AT is simply too domesticated with no real dangerous animals. Just don't step on a copperhead, and try not to chase blackbears.

Lugnut
11-11-2003, 18:05
I rely on my wits which means I'm at a terribe disadvantage! :confused:

Streamweaver
11-11-2003, 19:58
I rely on my wits which means I'm at a terribe disadvantage! :confused: HA HA!!!

Like Jack Tarlin said common sense is best!! Streamweaver

smokymtnsteve
11-11-2003, 21:09
you all forget to mention using your bear rope to choke'em with and then you tie'em up ....you'll be out in the wilderness and need to hold the offender still for a while... ;) ..

walkon
02-27-2004, 13:37
LEKI 138cm defense specials. IMHO, if i ever ran into someone with a gun on the trail i would leave immediately and not look back. i dont care if youre a policeman or a soldier or whatever. no guns necessary. IMHO.
walkon

icemanat95
02-27-2004, 14:45
Unless one has taken the time and trouble to learn how to use them properly, "protection" aids such as mace, knives, etc. might help your peace of mind, but in fact, probably pose an equal threat to the owner. The single best tool for self-protection in the backcountry is simple commnn sense.

For the most part Jack is right.

Carrying a weapon, any weapon, without reasonable preparation and training, both mental and physical, is of marginal defensive value. Yes, even a marginally trained person can use a firearm effectively for self-defense IF they have enough time and distance between themselves and the bad guy to overcome their lack of muscle-memory level proficiency. Time and distance can be a rare thing in self-defense situations. An angry dog, or violent human can cover 50 feet from a standing stop in less than 2 seconds. How long will it take you to get that big sheath knife, can of mace or gun out of the depths of your pack. or even out of a belt pack if you haven't practiced, practiced, practiced until you can do it instantly and with little conscious thought. That goes for any and all weapons.

Now with that out of the way, you have less need of a defensive weapon on the AT than you have of one on the streets of your home town. Monastaries and abbeys are probably less safe than the AT (at least as far as human predation is concerned.) Animal threats are minimal on the AT as well. The loose dogs you find roaming the streets of your home town are more of a threat than the wild animals along the AT.

Common sense, both on the streets and on the trail, is your single best defensive tool. Just stay aware of what's going on around you and pay attention to your instincts. If your gut tells you things ain't right, they are probably right and it's time to get into a friendly crowd or beat feet. Generally a thru-hiker is going to be in better condition and more certain of their footing in the woods than your average cretin, so running away is probably a real good option.

What do I carry for defense on the trail? Usually not a damned thing except a prepared mind. Chance favors the prepared mind.

Truly, do not get yourself all wrapped around a post over this issue, it is a non-issue on the trail...or maybe not a non-issue, but almost inconsequential.

Footslogger
02-28-2004, 14:18
Just carry your common sense and instincts with you and follow them ...

illininagel
02-28-2004, 15:21
It's kind of scary to think that 8 people have already responded that they carry guns on their hike.

:eek:

oyvay
02-28-2004, 18:54
Well, the lubricated ones are quite good....oh wait wrong protection ;)
Anyone who knits can tell you metal needles number 1, 2, 3 or 4 will puncture in the skin that will take a good 3 months or so to heal. Beware of "Hell's Knitters!"
According to airport security a pair of nail clippers will do some damage, why else would they be confiscating thousands of them since 9/11. :rolleyes:

Kozmic Zian
02-29-2004, 21:09
Yea......protection. Heavy boot.

weary
02-29-2004, 22:11
Self protection on the trail appears to be a controversial subject, but I wonder just how significant it really is. Please vote and let us all know.

I can't vote, because your choices leave out the only right answer, probably because nature made it a part of every hiker's gear. The only protection device that is remotely useful is your brain.

Weary

Freeze
02-29-2004, 23:18
When it comes to personal protection on the trail, I adhere to this very simple principle: A good offense is the best form of defense. If I see someone who could be a potential threat, I will launch a preemptive strike and neutralize that threat. Just in case. You can never be too careful. Now, if we are talking about a bear, boar, or your typical 6’4’’, 250 pound linebacker type guy, then that is another story. Run forest! Run!
I don’t know. Never really gave protection on the trail a thought. I kind of feel safer out in the woods than in this urban jungle. Except for the Blair Witch.
:datz

jec6613
03-01-2004, 06:08
I never have carried protection but once, and that was for people and not animals when I was going to cut across an urban area (small can of mace). There are some situations where I'd carry something a bit more serious, but I can't think of any way to make those come up. If I ever felt the need to, and I don't much see the point in carrying pepper spray, a knife or a Glock. Basically, if you needed to protect yourself against wildlife (humans are different, obviously) pepper spray would be less effective than good old fashioned noisemaking, a knife is completely pointless since the animal is already close enough to have seriously injured you and very few handguns or rifles would stop an animal large enough and agressive enough for a person to need to use a weapon.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you ever need to use a weapon, then fine, but what any hiker would carry would be rediculously underpowered compared to what would be necessary to make any sort of a difference, and if you're carrying a weapon of the necessary firepower (about a .44 Magnum and up) then that's adding 4 pounds plus a holster plus additional ammunition and cleaning supplies to whatever you're carrying, minimum, and even more if you get into what are really the proper weapons to defend against charging wildlife, such as the Colt-Walker or dragoon pistols.

Thomas Hughes
03-04-2004, 02:01
I don't think that anyone should carry a Colt-Walker. That's a bit old fashened. That leg cannon is a cavelry weapon anyway. And, it's a blackpowder weapon at that. I feel at ease when I carry my pistol when I'm out. I don't think that person needs to have a .44 mag. for taking big game animals. I think a person shouldn't carry fire arm unless he/she knows how to us the thing, knows when to use it too. As far as taking care of one out in the sticks, just keep it oiled, small can of WD/40 when your in a pinch. Ammo, don't shoot a lot, don't need a lot. I wouldn't freak out if I saw a person with one on there hip. In general, if the person is carring on his hip, he an't going to use it on you. Crimenals tend not to bradcast that they have a gun to use it one you. I'm a git surprised that a lot of fulks here are freaked out by them. :cool:

jec6613
03-04-2004, 02:33
Well, if you carry it for personal comfort, that's one thing, but if a bear's charging at you, you could empty the entire magazine of a Glock 9mm or Beretta M9 and not stop it, and it would take quite a few rpunds out of a pistol firing .45 ACP that you may or may not have in the clip depending on which weapon you bring.

The reason I mentioned the old black powder Colt-Walker or single shot dragoon pistol is that you don't need to buy special ammo (like you do with a .44) to stop a bear, the old fashioned lead ball is enough since it's traveling slow enough but yet with enough kinetic energy to stop a bear dead in its tracks, and black powder is preferable since even the bear is intimidated by it, not so if it's smokeless. That's the real big advantage to carrying black powder for protection: anything, whether it be bear, person or moose or squirrel is scared of black powder much more than by smokeless.

Kozmic Zian
03-04-2004, 10:39
LEKI 138cm defense specials. IMHO, if i ever ran into someone with a gun on the trail i would leave immediately and not look back. i dont care if youre a policeman or a soldier or whatever. no guns necessary. IMHO.
walkon
Yea.....I thought we'd been thru this, before. Sorry guys, but the AT and LDH Trails just are not the place or forum for gun carrying. Go to the forums at MSNBC or some of the others on the WEB. Maybe a NRA forum. I'll say it again, If you're carrying a hand gun (concealed) on the AT you're breaking the law. Different states have different laws. You go through 14 on a Thru-Hike. You'd be bound to break the law somewhere up The Trail. Even if you have a permit, you have to have a license for all the states, not just the state you're from with the permit. What are you afraid of anyway? Guns are heavy. People who carry them (in a backpack) could't get to it fast enough to help out in a BEAR(?) attack anyway(that's bout the only thing could hurt a human on the AT, too rare to even worry about). All this talk of guns and glocks, and M50's and 44magnums and the like, needs to be elsewhere. AT hikers are not gun carryers. If you want to go hunting, do it in season, with a registered firearm, in an approved location. Hardly, anywhere on State or Federal Lands in this country can you just walk up with a gun and start popping off rounds, anyway. You have to have permission, and be registered for the hunt. If you don't you can't shoot. These gun yahoos get in the woods and just start shooting, even during hunting season. Shoot, shoot, shoot. I wish they'd just shoot each other, then it'd be over with. I'd like to ask them how many shots they actually got at animals. S***, they make so much racket moving through the woods, there'd be nothing to shoot at anyway. Down in FL where I live sometimes, there are pretty good sized State Forest that I hike in. The Hunt Season is way too long, too many hunters, not well enough controled, not enough weapons checks by Rangers,
and to beat that, after the Hunt is over, then about a month later they have another one, black powder, or some ****, then bow season, then muzzle load season and on and on, Jesssse....give me a break. The poor deer are so freeking scared, you never see one. And this is every year, not just once every 5 years. A freekin slaughter. Give me a break. The guns popin' off, scare the **** out of all the wildlife, birds, everything. It's not that the forestry service dosen't make it easy for the hunters or anything, buy dividing the natural forest up into 1 mile square roaded areas, so's they can get their stupid forestry fire equipment up in the woods, so's they can have their 'controlled burns' to make it all look the same(like a southern Pine forest). Go figure that one. Well, I guess I've vented enough. Enough too, bout them damn handguns. The carryers always say in their dumb defense, "It's not the gun that kills the man, but the man behind the gun". Well, that's bull ****! There'd be no killing without the freekin' gun. Period. Handgun proliferation in this country has got to be controlled. What are we a nation at war with each other? You gonna' shoot somebody with you're gun? Go join the Army. You can go to Iraq and have plenty of opportunities. Leave the handguns at home on the Trail.....Be smart. [email protected]:datz

Kozmic Zian
03-04-2004, 10:49
You got that exactly right, Mr Weary. Thank You.

jec6613
03-04-2004, 11:09
Guns are heavy. People who carry them (in a backpack) could't get to it fast enough to help out in a BEAR(?) attack anyway(that's bout the only thing could hurt a human on the AT, too rare to even worry about)You forget the one animal that can hurt a human on the AT and does more often than any other - another human, and even then a gun is pretty pointless since in most states you couldn't even use it unless they ALSO have a gun and then you'd have to get it out and that takes too darn long. Mace? fine, they're small, light, can be carried on your person in an easily accessible place, and (not to be too stereotypical) might raise the comfort level quite a bit of a woman hiking alone (sorry gals, we guys just don't worry about getting jumped as much).

I'm not going to say that in certain situations hiking you wouldn't want to carry a gun, just not on the AT, and probably not in the entire continental US. Africa sounds like more of the place to carry a high powered handgun and be profecient using it for personal protection, and there too it's more about people not animals.

Oh yeah, as for at least one state you walk through, the only pistol permit that you can have, period, is a concealed carry permit, and you must take a class and be a resident of Connecticut to get it, otherwise you are only allowed to have a pistol on a range or locked in a position outside of the passenger compartment of the vehicle in a case, unloaded with ammunition seperate from the weapon in its own case, and you are not allowed to purchase a pistol without a permit.

Ramble~On
05-16-2004, 18:51
Some one asked me if I was going to take a gun with me in 1996.
I thought about it and decided that if I felt I needed a gun I probably shouldn't hike the trail.
I agree that "common sense" is the best protection...
Then again, If I ever come into a situation that scares me I can always take off a sock and wave it around....that ought to do the job nicely
Other than that, the only thing that I have ever felt that posed the possibilty of needing protection from was people's dogs....but that is another can of worms

JLB
05-21-2004, 20:39
It's kind of scary to think that 8 people have already responded that they carry guns on their hike.

:eek:

Why?

Do you think their guns are going to attack you?

JLB
05-21-2004, 20:42
AT hikers are not gun carryers.

Yes we are, as you can plainly see by the hikers who saying that they carry.

JLB
05-21-2004, 20:44
My self defense weapon is a Smith & Wesson 386SC .357 magnum, with a Scandium frame, and titanium cylinder. At 17oz, it's light, powerful, and safe.

Jester2000
05-21-2004, 20:48
I usually drop my pack on anything threatening me. I have found this to be particularly useful when the Southbounders are in heat.

JLB
05-21-2004, 20:51
The carryers always say in their dumb defense, "It's not the gun that kills the man, but the man behind the gun". Well, that's bull ****! There'd be no killing without the freekin' gun. Period.

These two women would disagree with you.


2 women hikers found slain on A.T.

Updated July 21, 1996


Two women hikers were found slain June 1st, just off the Appalachian Trail near Skyland Lodge in Shenandoah National Park. The bodies were found on National Trails Day by park authorities who had been alerted a day or so before that the women were overdue from a backpacking trip.

Killed were Julianne Williams, 24, of St. Cloud, Minn., and Lollie Winans, 26, of Unity, Maine. They were camped about 1.5 miles from Skyland Lodge, in a spot about 25 yards off the trail near a brook. Their dog, a golden retriever/lab mix named Taj, was found nearby, apparently unharmed. A roll of film found among their belongings was developed, and pictures from that roll have been used in posters seeking information from the public.

Investigators said the women's throats had been cut but officials would not say if the women were sexually assaulted. In a story published Saturday, July 20, the Washington Post reported that FBI officials are considering the possibility that the women were killed by two or more assailants, not one.


So much for the "no guns, no murder" theory.

funkyfreddy
05-22-2004, 00:02
These two women would disagree with you.......2 women hikers found slain on A.T. ......Updated July 21, 1996......... So much for the "no guns, no murder" theory.

Yes, the gun toting troll has to repeat over and over again that 2 people were killed near the AT 8 years ago, a trail that millions hike on or cross every year. Pretty lame if you ask me and a poor excuse for illegally carrying a weapon across state lines or in a national park. Sorry, but I have to ask - what do you carry to protect you from your own stupidity? I'm just wondering since you've advertised over and over again in a public forum how you plan on breaking the law.

Please do all of us a favor that like to hike the AT and keep your guns and your fears at home. We get enough hysteria at home and don't need it on the trail, thank you!

JLB
05-22-2004, 00:15
Yes, the gun toting troll has to repeat over and over again that 2 people were killed near the AT 8 years ago, a trail that millions hike on or cross every year. Pretty lame if you ask me and a poor excuse for illegally carrying a weapon across state lines or in a national park. Sorry, but I have to ask - what do you carry to protect you from your own stupidity? I'm just wondering since you've advertised over and over again in a public forum how you plan on breaking the law.

Please do all of us a favor that like to hike the AT and keep your guns and your fears at home. We get enough hysteria at home and don't need it on the trail, thank you!

No thanks. I'd rather be safe than a helpless victim.

You are free to choose your own path. I hope your faith in your fellow man's kindness never lets you down.

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 00:24
----------------------------------------:)

JLB
05-22-2004, 00:41
Just a heads up everyone, please read the other post ( do you carry a gun on the AT (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3005) ) and JLB's comments about firearms, he has been here 24 hours and may be a troll. Not sure, but you should really check this other thread out before you start giving up all this info about yourselves........

Just a thought...not trying to tell anyone what they should do.....;)

Go to his User CP and read all of th posts made in the last 24 hours if you choose to.....

All of my gun comments have been on the two open gun threads, where the topic just happens to be guns.

I have 4 other threads open on other topics that you should familiarize yourself with before casting aspersions on my character.

Thanks.

funkyfreddy
05-22-2004, 01:33
No thanks. I'd rather be safe than a helpless victim.

You are free to choose your own path. I hope your faith in your fellow man's kindness never lets you down.

I have faith in my own wits or providence to get me through my days. I put no faith in anyone else. I choose my own path, hike my own hikes and prefer to hike the AT with my hand on a walking stick instead of a weapon.

Do you think carrying a gun is going to keep you safe, prevent you from being a victim? I doubt it! Based on your posts of the last 24 hours I see a very likely future for you as a statistic....... sooner or later that gun's going to go off or get pulled out at the wrong time or place.

I'm not completely anti guns or anti hunting, mind you - there's a time and a place for everything. I just don't think they have any place on the AT. I know many responsible hunters and/or gun owners. I also know they don't waste their time bragging about their weapons on a hikers forum.

Guns, guns, guns, yawn............. I agree with Eyahiker - just another boring troll :bse

JLB
05-22-2004, 01:52
I have faith in my own wits or providence to get me through my days. I put no faith in anyone else. I choose my own path, hike my own hikes and prefer to hike the AT with my hand on a walking stick instead of a weapon.

Do you think carrying a gun is going to keep you safe, prevent you from being a victim? I doubt it! Based on your posts of the last 24 hours I see a very likely future for you as a statistic....... sooner or later that gun's going to go off or get pulled out at the wrong time or place.

I'm not completely anti guns or anti hunting, mind you - there's a time and a place for everything. I just don't think they have any place on the AT. I know many responsible hunters and/or gun owners. I also know they don't waste their time bragging about their weapons on a hikers forum.

Guns, guns, guns, yawn............. I agree with Eyahiker - just another boring troll :bse

You are free to disagree,. I am only offering an informed opinion.

I hope your "wits" are enough when, god forbid, you need more.


Btw, if I bore you, then why do you keep responding? :bse

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 07:53
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eyahiker
05-22-2004, 07:57
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Lone Wolf
05-22-2004, 08:37
Did anyone ever tell you that you're full of s**t, eya? Troll.

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 09:27
----------------------------------------:)

Lone Wolf
05-22-2004, 09:28
Go away boy. :banana

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 09:31
----------------------------------------:)

Lone Wolf
05-22-2004, 09:33
I take nothing personal. These threads are a joke to me. It's fun watching whacks like you get all fired up. :p

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 09:49
Yeah, Me too, but sometimes I'm the one who falls into that 'fired up' category,

But it is really a learning experience. I'm not always so good at keeping my big mouth shut;)

JLB
05-22-2004, 14:51
Yeah, Me too, but sometimes I'm the one who falls into that 'fired up' category,

But it is really a learning experience. I'm not always so good at keeping my big mouth shut;)

Why do you keep responding with no comments?

Kozmic Zian
05-22-2004, 15:09
Yea.....Guns Attack?! Man, you must be either really simple, or maybe like the rest of the NRA people, intent on one thing and one thing only.....the internal destruction of this country, by violence, gun violence, crime, accidently shot children, violence in the schools.......endless......don't even talk about a few incidents on The Trail. That they even happened at all is attributable to the rapid influx of handgun usage in crime in this country.......Don't talk about your silly NRA statistics to me....know the facts first. Check out the percentages, then make your incorrect, childish analyses. It then becomes like the rest of your rant, totally insignificant and groundless.......The fact is, M. JBL, handguns (concealed ones ) are for scared, insecure, and totally mindless individuals who either got whupped too much by their daddys, or grew up mama's boys. So, do us all a favor and yourself, take this mindless chat about nothing to do with hiking to the NRA forum where it belongs. Then you'd have lots o' other simple minded folks you could discuss the pro's of killing each other with. [email protected]

JLB
05-22-2004, 15:22
Yea.....Guns Attack?! Man, you must be either really simple, or maybe like the rest of the NRA people, intent on one thing and one thing only.....the internal destruction of this country, by violence, gun violence, crime, accidently shot children, violence in the schools.......endless......don't even talk about a few incidents on The Trail. That they even happened at all is attributable to the rapid influx of handgun usage in crime in this country.......Don't talk about your silly NRA statistics to me....know the facts first. Check out the percentages, then make your incorrect, childish analyses. It then becomes like the rest of your rant, totally insignificant and groundless.......The fact is, M. JBL, handguns (concealed ones ) are for scared, insecure, and totally mindless individuals who either got whupped too much by their daddys, or grew up mama's boys. So, do us all a favor and yourself, take this mindless chat about nothing to do with hiking to the NRA forum where it belongs. Then you'd have lots o' other simple minded folks you could discuss the pro's of killing each other with. [email protected]

Too bad the facts say the opposite.


Every state that has passed Concealed Carry laws has seen the violent crime rate go down. Murders, rapes, armed robberies...all lower when guns are carried.

I won't convince you, for you don't seem to be very rational, with your hatred of inanimate objects. Oh well. That's your problem, not mine. :)

Dances with Mice
05-22-2004, 16:56
I carry a nice long dogwood hiking staff. And 6 feet 4 inches and 230 pounds worth of stern visaged, buzzed hair cut, weightlifting toned, military police trained, and former karate practicing me. Did I mention having reflexes on loan from God, extremely good eye-hand coordination, or my razor-sharp wit and finely honed sense of humor? I never had to use any of that in self defense, people are usually real nice around me, but it's always there. Or maybe I just hang around nice people. Either way...

I don't carry a gun since I have no physical deficiencies below my waist that require such compensation. If someone else feels the need to pack more heat, hey, I understand but cannot empathize.

Wish I could say I also use common sense, but over the years there has been much evidence to the contrary. REI is having a sale this weekend, think I can pick up some there?

JLB
05-22-2004, 17:54
I don't carry a gun since I have no physical deficiencies below my waist that require such compensation. If someone else feels the need to pack more heat, hey, I understand but cannot empathize.



My large member has nothing to do with my desire to defend myself, but then, I am not a strapping commando like you. :D

The Old Fhart
05-22-2004, 18:51
Dance with Mice-"I carry a nice long dogwood hiking staff. And 6 feet 4 inches and 230 pounds worth of stern visaged, buzzed hair cut, weightlifting toned, military police trained, and former karate practicing me. Did I mention having reflexes on loan from God, extremely good eye-hand coordination, or my razor-sharp wit and finely honed sense of humor?"
Please don't take this as criticism or that I'm being sarcastic, it's just when I read the above, it reminded me of a personal listing for dating. :sun Just my warped sense of humor, or maybe that I'm testing yours. Good post.

eyahiker
05-22-2004, 19:08
L O L :)

Chappy
05-22-2004, 19:33
Please don't take this as criticism or that I'm being sarcastic, it's just when I read the above, it reminded me of a personal listing for dating. :sun Just my warped sense of humor, or maybe that I'm testing yours. Good post.

OF, This is my personal favorite. You're good! :)

Dances with Mice
05-22-2004, 19:44
Please don't take this as criticism or that I'm being sarcastic, it's just when I read the above, it reminded me of a personal listing for dating. :sun Just my warped sense of humor, or maybe that I'm testing yours. Good post.

You'll find I keep my goat well tethered.

I've been waiting for someone to call me a gun-grabbing liberal. That would make my day since Weary, on AT-L, once accused me of being a Budweiser swilling, 4 wheel driving, trash strewing, trespassing, Bush supporting, wilderness area destroying yahoo. Or words to that effect.

Which, of course, is preposterous. Budweiser?!

So what holster is best to put on your dog to carry a cell phone and pistol? We need to get all the flash point pieces in play.

Lone Wolf
05-22-2004, 22:50
FY Koz. I'm an NRA member. You're a spineless liberal. Zip your piehole. :) I bet you always have a coke with you while you're hiking. That's legal.

Chappy
05-23-2004, 00:48
FY Koz. I'm an NRA member. You're a spineless liberal with no backbone. Zip your piehole. :) I bet you always have dope with you while you're hiking. That's illegal.

L. Wolf....How long you been a member of the National Rasslin' Alliance (NRA)?

You're a trip, man...love your one line posts. I can understand 'em much better than those that go over a paragraph. My attention span is not what it once was. :D

Kozmic Zian
05-23-2004, 08:46
FY Koz. I'm an NRA member. You're a spineless liberal. Zip your piehole. :) I bet you always have dope with you while you're hiking. That's illegal.Yea....I'm not going to respond to weak, mindless [email protected];)

Lone Wolf
05-23-2004, 09:30
Now you're learnin! :D

Groucho
05-23-2004, 10:45
Now you're learnin! :D
Dropping your g's already? Won't be long before you'll be a true Southerner.

Want to trade names? :jump :D

Jack Tarlin
05-23-2004, 11:21
Southerner, hell!! He's from RHODE ISLAND for God's sake, and you can't get much more Yankee than that!

Bill Harris
05-23-2004, 19:56
It's what I don't carry, as part of my protection...Deodorant and Tooth paste. ;) :-?

Mountain Dew
05-23-2004, 23:35
Common sense, experience, and prayer.

d'shadow
05-24-2004, 06:27
I have to agree with Mountain Dew. My Dad always said that your mind, common sense, and the ability to think on your feet are the best weapons you can have as you journey through life.

Jaybird
05-24-2004, 06:53
Please don't take this as criticism or that I'm being sarcastic, it's just when I read the above, it reminded me of a personal listing for dating. :sun Just my warped sense of humor, or maybe that I'm testing yours. Good post.



yea...but is he a TAURUS or SCORPIO???........................... & does he love long walks on the beach @ sunset? ;)

weary
05-24-2004, 08:45
I've been waiting for someone to call me a gun-grabbing liberal. That would make my day since Weary, on AT-L, once accused me of being a Budweiser swilling, 4 wheel driving, trash strewing, trespassing, Bush supporting, wilderness area destroying yahoo. Or words to that effect. Which, of course, is preposterous. Budweiser?!
.

I don't need no gun. I carry a nice long alder hiking staff. And 6 feet 2 inches and 185 pounds worth of stern visaged, and military police trained me. And I keep a few buds in my pack to placate trouble-makers.

Weary

Dances with Mice
05-24-2004, 09:02
I don't need no gun. I carry a nice long alder hiking staff. And 6 feet 2 inches and 185 pounds worth of stern visaged, and military police trained me. And I keep a few buds in my pack to placate trouble-makers.

Weary

A few buds. That would work. Do you carry papers or a pipe?

Or did you mean Buds?

The Old Fhart
05-24-2004, 12:09
Dances with Mice:
It is obvious that your budding sense of humor has some people in a huff (or is it puff?).
I enjoy reading your comments and hope you don’t become Weary, one is enough.
(sorry, wasn't intending to rhyme)

eyahiker
05-24-2004, 16:53
LOL. This is getting good..........

weary
05-24-2004, 22:16
A few buds. That would work. Do you carry papers or a pipe?
Or did you mean Buds?

I prefer papers. Sharing body fluids spreads giardia and other bad things. But familiarity breeds carelessness. I thus sometimes omit capitalizing one of my favorite beverages. However, whatever works.

Weary

Mountain Dew
05-24-2004, 22:22
NRA ? Did somebody say NRA....A great organization. Not perfect, but very close. With Ben Hur errr umm Moses as the president how could it not be great ? All those liberals that cry about guns causing violence are pathetic. I wonder if those same liberals consider needles the cause of drug use ? Hell No. Guns aren't the problem idiots are.

weary
05-24-2004, 22:36
NRA ? Did somebody say NRA....A great organization. Not perfect, but very close. With Ben Hur errr umm Moses as the president how could it not be great ? All those liberals that cry about guns causing violence are pathetic. I wonder if those same liberals consider needles the cause of drug use ? Hell No. Guns aren't the problem idiots are.

I'll go along with the last comment at least. The problem is not guns, but idiot organizations like NRA. What is pathetic are the stupid, unthinking critics of so called "liberals." Such labels have no meaning. True Liberals by there very nature do not speak with one voice, but with a thousand voices.

Weary

Mountain Dew
05-24-2004, 22:45
Weary- "True Liberals by there very nature do not speak with one voice, but with a thousand voices." And people who support the right to own guns speak with millions of voices so keep pissing into the wind. Although I do not agree with all NRA rules etc. they are stand for freedom which is beyond a liberals comprehension. Notice how liberals don't even like their own label at times ? Keep blaming the cars for accidents, needles for drug use, and playboy for rapes liberals. What perfect logic that makes. ....funny stuff.

JLB
05-25-2004, 12:57
I'll go along with the last comment at least. The problem is not guns, but idiot organizations like NRA. What is pathetic are the stupid, unthinking critics of so called "liberals." Such labels have no meaning. True Liberals by there very nature do not speak with one voice, but with a thousand voices.

Weary

The NRA protects the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you call it an idiot organization? Without the 2nd Amedment, all the others are worthless, when the government decides they are.

Dances with Mice
05-25-2004, 14:40
Y'all are just trying to make trouble to get some of Weary's buds.

Photofanatic
05-25-2004, 15:06
..........

weary
05-25-2004, 17:17
The NRA protects the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you call it an idiot organization? Without the 2nd Amedment, all the others are worthless, when the government decides they are.

Well, there are many complicated reasons, but I'll tell you a personal anecdote. I've owned a gun for at least 60 years. I've hunted for at least 60 years. I've worked to protect wildlife habitat for 50 years. Some think I'm mostly responsible for the recovery of 400,000 acres that Maine preserved when it sold its public domain 150 years ago and then forgot it owned the land.

Twelve years ago I ran for the state senate against an incumbent who had fought against every legislative bill that sought to protect wildlife habitat during her several terms, who routinely opposed efforts to create more land for hunting and fishing opportunities.

But she was supported by NRA and by the Sportsman's Association of Maine, the NRA Maine affiliate. A good friend who was president of SAM said I was rejected because of a wrong answer on one of the NRA questions, a question about whether outdoor shooting ranges should be allowed in residential neighborhoods. Knowing NRA, I knew when I said no, that I had lost any chance for an endorsement.

Weary

Kozmic Zian
05-25-2004, 21:11
Yea.....Dope. If I were you LW, I wouldn't be putting things out on the internet of that nature. You don't know me well enough. Sounds kinda' slanderish to me. You got any money, real estate, anything of value? You keep that kinda' crap up and you won't have it long. [email protected] P.s. I mean that.

Lone Wolf
05-25-2004, 21:15
You want me to post the threatening e-mail you sent me for all to see? Shows what kinda punk you are. :sun I thought you weren't going to respond to weak,mindless BS. :D Go to your post about "pot toking weed puffing hippies.." on 2-13-2004. Sounds like you MAY smoke it.

eyahiker
05-25-2004, 21:24
L. Wolf says: My most recent personal decision (effective yesterday) is only do today what I can live with tomorrow
Now here is some incredibly sensible logic!:clap

Lone Wolf
05-25-2004, 21:25
That's L. Wolfe, not L. Wolf

eyahiker
05-25-2004, 21:27
Sorry, my typo:)

Kozmic Zian
05-26-2004, 00:18
Yea.....Pot smokin' hippies. Ah...wha da madder Lone Wolf, you don't like us...Aw, too bad. We like you. You such a nice guy.

Photofanatic
05-26-2004, 00:52
..........

Mountain Dew
05-26-2004, 00:53
Weary... You owned a gun and have hunted for atleast 60 years ? Assuming you didn't own a gun until you were about 14.... you must be about 74 right ? Great job discovering that 400,000 acres in maine, but the NRA is still a great organization.

Kozmic Zian....the best self defense to slander is the truth.

This is some funny stuff.... "You can't say I smoke weed because it's slander....HEY pass that pipe bro"..... hahahaaa Classic

Lone Wolf 1 liberals 0

JLB
05-26-2004, 00:56
Well, there are many complicated reasons, but I'll tell you a personal anecdote. I've owned a gun for at least 60 years. I've hunted for at least 60 years. I've worked to protect wildlife habitat for 50 years. Some think I'm mostly responsible for the recovery of 400,000 acres that Maine preserved when it sold its public domain 150 years ago and then forgot it owned the land.

Twelve years ago I ran for the state senate against an incumbent who had fought against every legislative bill that sought to protect wildlife habitat during her several terms, who routinely opposed efforts to create more land for hunting and fishing opportunities.

But she was supported by NRA and by the Sportsman's Association of Maine, the NRA Maine affiliate. A good friend who was president of SAM said I was rejected because of a wrong answer on one of the NRA questions, a question about whether outdoor shooting ranges should be allowed in residential neighborhoods. Knowing NRA, I knew when I said no, that I had lost any chance for an endorsement.

Weary

I'm sorry for your personal political reasons that make you upset with the NRA. Their job is to protect gun owner's rights, and as such, will endorse you or not only on that issue. With that in mind, you should not hold a grudge against them for doing what they are supposed to do, which is select the most pro-gun candidate available to endorse. Also, the good that they do on a national level should far outweigh the personal reasons you have with them.

budman5
05-26-2004, 01:19
You wouldn't catch me in the bush without my trusty rifle....I don't want to be found in a pile of bear dung smelling like pepper...:D Alaska has some very Big bears...

Lone Wolf
05-26-2004, 03:47
Yo Kozzy Kupkake? You havin a bad day? Gonna sue me for slander in one breath then admit to being a pot smokin hippie in another breath. You oughta leave that s**t alone. Seek counseling. :jump

SGT Rock
05-26-2004, 07:27
I'm sorry for your personal political reasons that make you upset with the NRA. Their job is to protect gun owner's rights, and as such, will endorse you or not only on that issue. With that in mind, you should not hold a grudge against them for doing what they are supposed to do, which is select the most pro-gun candidate available to endorse. Also, the good that they do on a national level should far outweigh the personal reasons you have with them.

Well I tend to see Weary's point about how a group like that can actually hurt themselves with people that would tend to agree with them because of certain points. I was an NRA member back in the 80s. But there was a law that they were trying to stop that had to deal with the legality of automatic weapons and I just couldn't abide by their position, and it was the poistion I read about in their magazine. So I dropped my membership and have never continued it. I still own multiple weapons, but feel that gun ownership and laws about gun ownership need to come from a point of common sense, not a questionaire.

JLB
05-26-2004, 08:15
Well I tend to see Weary's point about how a group like that can actually hurt themselves with people that would tend to agree with them because of certain points. I was an NRA member back in the 80s. But there was a law that they were trying to stop that had to deal with the legality of automatic weapons and I just couldn't abide by their position, and it was the poistion I read about in their magazine. So I dropped my membership and have never continued it. I still own multiple weapons, but feel that gun ownership and laws about gun ownership need to come from a point of common sense, not a questionaire.

Automatic weapons have been illegal to own without a tax stamp from the Treasury Dept. since 1934. The manufacter of new transferable automatic weapons was banned in 1986.

There has NEVER been a crime commited with a legally owned automatic weapon in 78 years. They are not a problem.

I own a machinegun, btw. Lots of fun. :sun

SGT Rock
05-26-2004, 08:47
True, but I still don't have to agree with the position that it should be legal to own a machinegun. But by supporting the NRA when they make a stand on this point, by defacto I am supporting something I don't agree with.

I am a very pro-gun ownership person, but I feel that there has to be some limits for various reasons. I wouldn't want a range in my neighborhood, I like my range being out in the country. But by Weary supporting the exact same position as I would, despite all his gun and hunter friendly positions, his oponent got the support of the NRA despite her apathy to wildlife habatat protection. This is what I mean about the NRA sometimes not looking at the whole picture to it's constituents. I am not the only person I know that has had this kind of problem with the NRA, and I am not the only person I know that has cancled my membership.

Anyway, we are getting way off topic at this point.

smokymtnsteve
05-26-2004, 10:32
you rock....sgt rock.

I enjoyed our discussion of this issue at HARD CORE...

LBJ
05-26-2004, 10:57
Unless one has taken the time and trouble to learn how to use them properly, "protection" aids such as mace, knives, etc. might help your peace of mind, but in fact, probably pose an equal threat to the owner. The single best tool for self-protection in the backcountry is simple commnn sense.

Seems to me I saw a picture of you wielding a HUGE Bowie knife on the trail somewhere awhile back

SGT Rock
05-26-2004, 11:35
I had a good time there too Steve. It is nice to work and talk with someone you might just disagree with while agreeing on other issues.

pvtmorriscsa
05-26-2004, 12:15
There has NEVER been a crime commited with a legally owned automatic weapon in 78 years. They are not a problem.
Not entirely true. I seem to remember last year a swat team member used his "legally" owned MP-5 to kill his neighbors. I think it was in New Jersey, but I could be wrong.

JLB
05-26-2004, 12:35
Not entirely true. I seem to remember last year a swat team member used his "legally" owned MP-5 to kill his neighbors. I think it was in New Jersey, but I could be wrong.

SWAT members do not own machineguns. Their Departments own them. He may have been able to take the weapon home, but that doesn't mean he owns it.

weary
05-26-2004, 13:12
Weary... You owned a gun and have hunted for atleast 60 years ? Assuming you didn't own a gun until you were about 14.... you must be about 74 right ? Great job discovering that 400,000 acres in maine, but the NRA is still a great organization.
]

Had I not had a birthday earlier this month, your calculations would be right on. No one person is totally responsible for recovering 400,000 acres. But I did write about the lost lands and kept the issue alive long enough for the political and legal forces to come into play.

The lands were scattered 1,000 acre and 1,280 acre blocks in the unorganized townships that encompass half of Maine. They were preserved to provide a means of financing the first settlements. But thanks to the opening of the midwest and the discovery of gold in California, settlers never came to much of northwestern Maine.

After a 10 year legal battle, the Maine Supreme Court ruled the lands still existed. Before and after that decision a number of companies had settled by swapping the scattered lots for a few large preserves.

The 45,000 acres of public lands bordering the trail in the Mahoosucs, the 35,000 acre Bigelow Preserve, the Four Ponds area south of Saddleback and part of the Nahmakanta Preserve south of Baxter were created as a result of these settlements.

Though many people helped in the recovery, when I walk these areas I think of them as my special lands. The real hero of the recovery was a guy who lived in a tarpaper shack who first told me about the lands, and a dumb editorial writer who read my first story and blamed it all on a governor who had only been in office a few months.

To protect himself, the governor named a commitee of department heads to investigate what most people thought to be a pretty silly idea. Even Maine couldn't lose 400,000 acres, most seemed to believe. The committee allowed me to keep the issue alive until someone noticed. I wouldn't let that committee cross the street without writing a story in the newspaper where I worked.

My first hint that I was onto something big was when all the paper companies that claimed the lands wrote letters defending the governor that they usually were at war with.

Weary

pvtmorriscsa
05-26-2004, 13:40
SWAT members do not own machineguns. Their Departments own them. He may have been able to take the weapon home, but that doesn't mean he owns it.My point was not that the criminal owned it. Be he a swat guy or not his actions clearly label him as such. I was only pointing out that the firearm in question was "legal"
At some point I would love to own a full-auto. Right now though I am not prepared to drop $5,000+ for a rifle. Hell I can barely afford to feed my 1911A1.
Course I will spend that much to walk from GA to ME. Go figure.
True story. We got CCW in Ohio a few months ago. The local gunshop had some fool call to find out if he could carry his Class III submachinegun as his concealed carry weapon. The answer was no of course. That someone asked cracks me up.
As for defense on the trail. I will be carrying my Mod-1 brain. Worked for humans before there were firearms.

JLB
05-26-2004, 13:52
My point was not that the criminal owned it. Be he a swat guy or not his actions clearly label him as such. I was only pointing out that the firearm in question was "legal"
At some point I would love to own a full-auto. Right now though I am not prepared to drop $5,000+ for a rifle. Hell I can barely afford to feed my 1911A1.
Course I will spend that much to walk from GA to ME. Go figure.
True story. We got CCW in Ohio a few months ago. The local gunshop had some fool call to find out if he could carry his Class III submachinegun as his concealed carry weapon. The answer was no of course. That someone asked cracks me up.
As for defense on the trail. I will be carrying my Mod-1 brain. Worked for humans before there were firearms.
Although it's legal for a cop to carry a dept issued weapon, it doesn't meet the definition of a tax stamped weapon under the 1934 firearms act.

A machinegun is a little on the heavy side as a concealed carry weapon. :D

Chappy
05-26-2004, 17:29
But I did write about the lost lands and kept the issue alive long enough for the political and legal forces to come into play.

Good for you, Weary. Writing can certainly turn the tide. Since I've been in Korea my home county in the US announced this spring they would suspend mowing county roads and begin spraying herbicides instead. From Korea I began a letter writing campaign to inform the citizens that this is not the thing to do in order to save $30,000. Citizens began calling the county commissioners and they reversed their decision. My only concern is that this is temporary and will surface again next year. Hopefully, when I'm back I can start garnering more support to permanently defeat the issue.

Weary, any suggestions on organizations I could ask for guidance, procedures or assistance? Thanks.

eyahiker
05-26-2004, 20:40
You GO Chappy! I'm behind you all the way on this issue of mow/pesticides.:)
here in FL we have trucks up and down every street spraying mosquito crap day in and day out, get's on your vehicle, can't ride a bike within 1/2 mile behind them or your throat will burn, nasty stuff............

smokymtnsteve
05-26-2004, 21:09
Mosquito she fly high
Mosquito she fly low
Mosquito land on me
she ain't gonna fly no mo!

steve hiker
05-27-2004, 00:29
The best protection is a good lover. I sleep with a gun named Amy, she has it tattooed right on her slide. Sometimes if she is good she gets to hike two weeks with me. She is a wonderful gun. She has killed mice in the shelter for me and jumped out of my pants to yell boo when bears got to close. She is very protective of me.

Kozmic Zian
05-27-2004, 23:14
The best protection is a good lover. I sleep with a gun named Amy, she has it tattooed right on her slide. Sometimes if she is good she gets to hike two weeks with me. She is a wonderful gun. She has killed mice in the shelter for me and jumped out of my pants to yell boo when bears got to close. She is very protective of me.

Yea.....Killed Mice In the Shelter. Man this guy UGH needs to get real and get a life. He's more dangerous than the gun totin' math teacher or the motorcycle ridin' conservative with the beard. Yikes!......what have we created, a country full of crazed geeks hikin up The Trail shootin' all our wildlife and hippie friends. What has the world come to>? Guess it's time to retire to the farm! Take me home sweet Lord, I'm ready to ride. [email protected]

Mountain Dew
05-28-2004, 00:17
JLB....."Seems to me I saw a picture of you wielding a HUGE Bowie knife on the trail somewhere awhile back" <-----referring to Baltimore Jack... I seriously doubt Jack was carrying a HUGE knife. Most likely it wasn't him or he was making fun of another persons knife. His knife last year was about pinky sized.
__________________

JLB
05-28-2004, 00:56
JLB....."Seems to me I saw a picture of you wielding a HUGE Bowie knife on the trail somewhere awhile back" <-----referring to Baltimore Jack... I seriously doubt Jack was carrying a HUGE knife. Most likely it wasn't him or he was making fun of another persons knife. His knife last year was about pinky sized.
__________________

That was LBJ who said that, not me.

I'm JLB. :)

Mountain Dew
05-28-2004, 02:06
Sorry JLB.....all these similar screen names....JLB, LBJ, Lone Wolf, Lone Wolfe........

Pencil Pusher
05-28-2004, 04:36
I suppose it really doesn't matter about the thru-hikers that do carry firearms, since they don't have criminal intent (which would affect us). They'll probably get in trouble with the law because someone will notice and tell them someone is packing heat on the trail. Carrying a gun is a huge liability in more ways than one. I'm with everyone in the 'just use common sense' camp, but to each their own.
PS I think your claimed 17oz weight of a loaded 357 is BS.

Lone Wolf
05-28-2004, 07:26
Glock model 33 in .357 weighs 19 ozs. Who cares about weight anyway? I don't carry a water filter, mace, whistle, Leki poles or lots of other crap that hikers carry. My Glock weighs 23.9 ozs. Guess the model. :)

c.coyle
05-28-2004, 07:49
Glock model 33 in .357 weighs 19 ozs. Who cares about weight anyway? I don't carry a water filter, mace, whistle, Leki poles or lots of other crap that hikers carry. My Glock weighs 23.9 ozs. Guess the model. :)

Happiness is a warm gun
(Bang Bang, Shoot Shoot)
Happiness is a warm gun
(Bang Bang, Shoot Shoot)
When I hold you, in my arms
And I feel my finger on your trigger
I know no one can do me no harm
Because happiness is a warm gun
Yes it is

(Words & music by Lennon & McCartney)

Lone Wolf
05-28-2004, 07:55
Lennon & McCartney.Now there's a coupla dope smokin liberal hippies who put out marginal music. Model citizens. One of em anyway. :cool:

LBJ
05-28-2004, 08:57
JLB....."Seems to me I saw a picture of you wielding a HUGE Bowie knife on the trail somewhere awhile back" <-----referring to Baltimore Jack... I seriously doubt Jack was carrying a HUGE knife. Most likely it wasn't him or he was making fun of another persons knife. His knife last year was about pinky sized.
__________________
Hey MD, before you doubt my integrity, why don't you ask Baltimore Jack himself if there was a picture of him posted with a huge knife?

JLB
05-28-2004, 13:42
I suppose it really doesn't matter about the thru-hikers that do carry firearms, since they don't have criminal intent (which would affect us). They'll probably get in trouble with the law because someone will notice and tell them someone is packing heat on the trail. Carrying a gun is a huge liability in more ways than one. I'm with everyone in the 'just use common sense' camp, but to each their own.
PS I think your claimed 17oz weight of a loaded 357 is BS.

My bad. It's 18.5 oz, unloaded. I never claimed 17 oz loaded. See for yourself.
http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293503&sw_activeTab=1

I could have chosen a 12 oz .357, btw, which would have put at 17 oz loaded, but I prefer extra barrel length.

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293496&sw_activeTab=1

See, you learned something new!

JLB
05-28-2004, 13:43
Glock model 33 in .357 weighs 19 ozs. Who cares about weight anyway? I don't carry a water filter, mace, whistle, Leki poles or lots of other crap that hikers carry. My Glock weighs 23.9 ozs. Guess the model. :)

That would be a 19, 23, or 32.

What do I win? :D

Jack Tarlin
05-28-2004, 13:56
Hey, LBJ, before you go riding Mountain Dew, who happens to know me very well, indeed, perhaps it is YOU who should get your fact straight:

1. I do not now, nor have I ever owned or carried a Bowie Knife.
2. On my first few long-hikes, I carried a Gerber in a hip-belt sheath. The blade was less than six inches long; you evidently know less about Jim Bowie and his cutlery than you do about me.
3. I haven't carried this thing in years, realizing there's no real use or need for such a weapon on the Trail. 99% of the time on the Trail, you use your knife to cut rope or slice a block of cheese.
4. The fact that I used to carry a somewhat oversized knife is irrevant to this discussion. I never wore or carried this thing anywhere where it was not legal to do so; several posters here have repeatedly ignored the fact that it is highly illegal in most cases to carry a firearm on the Trail. One poster has repeatedly mentioned his intention to carry while he hikes for a month on the Trail. If he insists on doing so, he will be committing a criminal act. What this has to do with my carring a rather large knife years ago escapes me.
5. I have no beef, and no problem, with law-abiding gun-owners, collectors, hunters, etc. I do have a problem with criminals; they deserve what they get. I respect law-abiding gun-owners, and I respect their right to defend themselves and their loved ones as they see fit.....as long as they obey the law. When they willfully choose to NOT do so, I have no more respect for them than I do any other criminal.
6. It is my considered opinion that a gun is not needed on the A.T. This will not, of course, deter some folks from carrying one anyway. They should do so, however, in the knowledge that they are, in all likelihood, breaking several laws, and have nobody but themselves to blame if they are called to account for it.

JLB
05-28-2004, 14:22
One poster has repeatedly mentioned his intention to carry while he hikes for a month on the Trail. If he insists on doing so, he will be committing a criminal act. What this has to do with my carring a rather large knife years ago escapes me.

For the 10th time or so, let me repeat:

I will be carrying in areas where my concealed weapons permit allows me to do so legally.


As for your carrying a large knife....

Did you check the local laws on knife length for every town you passed through?

It's illegal to carry a concealed Bowie knife in Georgia, or a knife larger than two inches in length. Did you break the law?
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ga.txt



Did you carry that knife in North Carolina?

14-269. Carrying concealed weapons. (a) It shall be
unlawful for any person, except when on his own premises,
willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his
person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger... razor... or other
deadly weapon of like kind.
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/nc.txt



Did you carry it in Tennessee?

Tennessee - 39-17-1397. Unlawful carrying or possession of a
weapon. (a)(1) A person commits an offense who carries
with intent to go armed a firearm, knife with a blade
length exceeding four inches, or a club....
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/tn.txt


Virginia?

Virginia - 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons... A. If any
person carries about his person, hidden from common
observation... (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade
knife, ballistic knife, razor... he shall be guilty of a
Class 1 misdemeanor, and such weapon shall be forfeited to
the Commonwealth...
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/va.txt


Are you starting to see the point yet?

You are now an admitted criminal, for carrying that large knife around on your thru hike.

After all, you said:


I do have a problem with criminals; they deserve what they get. I respect law-abiding gun-owners, and I respect their right to defend themselves and their loved ones as they see fit.....as long as they obey the law. When they willfully choose to NOT do so, I have no more respect for them than I do any other criminal.
Now do you feel that you deserve to be prosecuted for carrying that deadly weapon around with you?

Jack Tarlin
05-28-2004, 14:38
JLB--

Interesting post. I confess I was unaware of those rules and regulations, and would certainly have behaved differently had I known.

It should also be stated that on on those several trips when I carried that weapon, it was always in plain view, and was seen repeatedly be Rangers, Sheriffs, Police Officers, etc. Nobody ever commented on my knife, or my propriety in carring it. Presumptive conlusion: These folks either didn't care, or these were laws that were on the books but that nobody felt the need to enforce, at least not as regarded hikers.

Nevertheless, you're right. Ignorance of a law or statute is a weak excuse. I'm glad I no longer carry that knife; I'm also glad I came to the mature realization years ago that I didn't need it. Someday you may feel the same about your gun.

As to you repeated statement (was it really 10 times?) that you intend to obey all laws while you're out on the Trail, well I applaud this......if it's true. Unfortunately, I can think of nowhere that one can hike for a month on the A.T. without breaking firearms laws, unless one is a member of an elite law enforcement agency. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of anywhere one could hike a week or more without running into jurisdictional problems and regulations regarding the carrying of a firearm, concealed or not. But I may be mistaken.

But if you've found a way around this, and carry legally throughout your trip, I wish you well. At the very least, it's good that you're informed on this so that if someone were to report you or turn you in, at least you wouldn't have to plead ignorance of the law.

c.coyle
05-28-2004, 14:54
(to Jack Tarlin)
You are now an admitted criminal, for carrying that large knife around on your thru hike.

After all, you said:


Now do you feel that you deserve to be prosecuted for carrying that deadly weapon around with you?

He most certainly does not. De minimus non curat lex.

JLB
05-28-2004, 14:55
JLB--

Interesting post. I confess I was unaware of those rules and regulations, and would certainly have behaved differently had I known.

It should also be stated that on on those several trips when I carried that weapon, it was always in plain view, and was seen repeatedly be Rangers, Sheriffs, Police Officers, etc. Nobody ever commented on my knife, or my propriety in carring it. Presumptive conlusion: These folks either didn't care, or these were laws that were on the books but that nobody felt the need to enforce, at least not as regarded hikers.

Nevertheless, you're right. Ignorance of a law or statute is a weak excuse. I'm glad I no longer carry that knife; I'm also glad I came to the mature realization years ago that I didn't need it. Someday you may feel the same about your gun.

As to you repeated statement (was it really 10 times?) that you intend to obey all laws while you're out on the Trail, well I applaud this......if it's true. Unfortunately, I can think of nowhere that one can hike for a month on the A.T. without breaking firearms laws, unless one is a member of an elite law enforcement agency. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of anywhere one could hike a week or more without running into jurisdictional problems and regulations regarding the carrying of a firearm, concealed or not. But I may be mistaken.

But if you've found a way around this, and carry legally throughout your trip, I wish you well. At the very least, it's good that you're informed on this so that if someone were to report you or turn you in, at least you wouldn't have to plead ignorance of the law.
Jack, I was not trying to slam you, merely point out that everybody operates in their own reality. You did not feel like a criminal carrying that knife, because in your own mind, you are a law abiding member of society. The knife was only a tool for you. A gun is merely a tool for me. A last ditch tool for the worst possible circumstance, the need to defend my life or my kid's life.

I'm trying to open a few eyes here. One out of twenty people in my state carries a weapon, and nobody thinks twice about it, because they know that those people who do carry those weapons, on average, have more training than the local police, know the laws better, and have chosen to rely on themselves for protection, rather than somebody else. With power comes responsibility.

Carrying a large knife illegally is no different than carrying a gun illegally. Both can kill, but that power does not reside in the object, but in the owner's heart.

Alligator
05-28-2004, 15:55
:welcome J - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Tater
05-28-2004, 19:53
You gotta say one thing for JLB. Unlike several of his critics, I do not remember one post in which he resorted to a personal attack on another member of this forum. He sticks to the merits, which unfortunately in our society is the only option left for those who don't spout off the liberal line. Unfortunate because those on the other side are bound to no such restraint.

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 20:54
You gotta say one thing for JLB. Unlike several of his critics, I do not remember one post in which he resorted to a personal attack on another member of this forum. He sticks to the merits, which unfortunately in our society is the only option left for those who don't spout off the liberal line. Unfortunate because those on the other side are bound to no such restraint.

As an aside, I don't appreciate being called a liberal any more than I liked it when uber-liberal Weary called me an arch-conservative. Neither of you were correct. But, hey, y'all slap those labels around if it makes your world easier to comprehend. We live in a complicated time.

The data that's missing on this thread is how many innocent hikers have been injured by Idiots With A Gun (IWAG). I don't know of any hikers on the AT injured last year by bears, nor do I know of any hikers hurt by other people where the situation could have been improved by the hiker having a pistol, including the 4 Pines incident. But I do know that last year two hikers on the AT were shot by IWAGs. One was on a section of trail I hike several times a year.

Gotta say one thing for JLB, the questions he has posted have make him appear clueless about backpacking. That's not a personal attack, it's an objective assessment of his non-gun postings. If you disagree then please provide links to posts that show otherwise. He would have us believe that a clueless newbie backpacker need not be an IWAG. Well, maybe so and maybe no. I assume you're willing to risk it, Tater? Would you want his tarpline to be the one you trip over in the dark?

To summarize: He argues that it is his right to hike armed. Most experienced AT hikers (can we say an overwhelming majority?) believe it's unnecessary. He doesn't, but then he doesn't know anything about hiking. There will be a communal sigh of relief when he returns safely.

Gotta say one thing about this thread: Nobody's changed their mind. I don't expect this post will have any such impact either.

JLB
05-28-2004, 21:35
As an aside, I don't appreciate being called a liberal any more than I liked it when uber-liberal Weary called me an arch-conservative. Neither of you were correct. But, hey, y'all slap those labels around if it makes your world easier to comprehend. We live in a complicated time.

The data that's missing on this thread is how many innocent hikers have been injured by Idiots With A Gun (IWAG). I don't know of any hikers on the AT injured last year by bears, nor do I know of any hikers hurt by other people where the situation could have been improved by the hiker having a pistol, including the 4 Pines incident. But I do know that last year two hikers on the AT were shot by IWAGs. One was on a section of trail I hike several times a year.


Please post me a link to the stories of the hikers who were injured by IWAGs, as I cannot find anybody who has been shot by accident, only murders.





Gotta say one thing for JLB, the questions he has posted have make him appear clueless about backpacking. That's not a personal attack, it's an objective assessment of his non-gun postings. If you disagree then please provide links to posts that show otherwise. He would have us believe that a clueless newbie backpacker need not be an IWAG. Well, maybe so and maybe no. I assume you're willing to risk it, Tater? Would you want his tarpline to be the one you trip over in the dark?

Sorry, but being clueless about backpacking, and I never pretended to be otherwise, does not translate to being clueless about firearms. Indeed, most of you seem very knowledgeble about backpacking, but don't know squat about firearms.




To summarize: He argues that it is his right to hike armed. Most experienced AT hikers (can we say an overwhelming majority?) believe it's unnecessary. He doesn't, but then he doesn't know anything about hiking. There will be a communal sigh of relief when he returns safely.
Why? Is my gun going to ambush me?




Gotta say one thing about this thread: Nobody's changed their mind. I don't expect this post will have any such impact either.
I see that the poll says as many people carry guns on the trail as do knives. How do all of those people seem to survive, do you wonder?

JLB
05-28-2004, 21:38
You gotta say one thing for JLB. Unlike several of his critics, I do not remember one post in which he resorted to a personal attack on another member of this forum. He sticks to the merits, which unfortunately in our society is the only option left for those who don't spout off the liberal line. Unfortunate because those on the other side are bound to no such restraint.

Reasoned logic, backed up by experience works best when arguing with liberals.

Emotional responses don't work very well when confronted by the facts.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 21:38
http://georgiatrails.com/at_shooting.html

The Old Fhart
05-28-2004, 21:42
First, I see no reason to carry a large knife on the A. T.. Second, before any hikers start saying: “ did I unwittingly break the law by carrying a knife?”, look at the facts. Another poster has tried to make you believe that it is illegal to carry a knife on the A.T. and that isn’t really true. No one can seriously believe that your Lexan utensils are “weapons”. To quote part of the law regarding carrying knifes while leaving out important parts to try to prove your weak case is akin to lying. Lets look at what a few states say about knifes.

GA 16-11-126 A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view……………………………
Admin Note: Only under school carry is the length of a knife blade mentioned in Georgia Law. As 16-11-126 it looks like open carry of a knife is legal.

NC-14-269 Provisions for the legal concealed carriage of long or fixed blade knives, switchblades, or other types of generally prohibited weapons, do not exist. Generally speaking, there is no prohibition against open carry of handguns, nor the open carrying of certain types of knives that would normally be considered illegal if carried in a concealed manner.

TN 39-17-1307 A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4"), or a club.

VA § 18.2-308
If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation……………………………..,

W. VA. §61-7-2. Definitions.
a hunting or fishing knife carried for hunting, fishing, sports or other recreational uses, or a knife designed for use as a tool or household implement shall not be included within the term "knife" as defined herein unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death.

Baltimore Jack committed no crime by openly carrying his knife in the past. He admitted it was in plain view and its purpose was to cut rope or slice cheese. That hardly qualifies as “an attempt to go armed”, even under TN law. When was the last time you read of a report of police raiding a picnic area or wayside in VA and arresting people for having illegal knifes? Despite what one poster would have you believe, Jack committed no crime other than believing the BS from that poster. Jack wasn’t carrying a “concealed” weapon as it was in plain view. The purpose of his knife had nothing to do with fear of others but was utilitarian and multi-use. On the other hand, when was the last time you saw someone slice cheese with their Glock? How many times have you seen news reports involving confiscated guns? If you compare my quotes of the state weapons laws you will find that they differ wildly from what was posted previously. I'll let you decide who edited the quotes to slant them to push their own agenda.

There are specific prohibitions against certain items in national parks and other areas. For instance, you are not allowed to carry glass containers through the Shenandoah but when I went thru, the campground stores were selling peanut butter in glass jars. I don’t think you’d find rangers waiting to arrest hikers leaving the camp stores with jars of peanut butter. Also I don’t believe they have classified Leki poles as deadly weapons yet either. They could be considered a weapon only if they were “knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death”, as WV law defines a weapon. This principle is almost universal and why cars can be viewed as “deadly weapons” when intentionally used to kill someone. It certainly does not mean that all cars are deadly weapons.
Are you starting to see the point yet?

On the other hand there are very specific rules regarding firearms, concealed or not. They have no other use other than to shoot. They certainly don’t work well to drive in tent stakes because you could end up one shot (yeh, that’s a horrid pun). All the pithy arguments and clichés from JLB won’t change the fact that guns are not multi-use and are generally banned in most areas the A.T. passes through. Carrying a weapon out of fear of meeting a “problem” person on the A. T. is not justification for illegal carrying. NC case law says it well: “Carrying concealed weapons in reasonable apprehension of deadly assaults is not justification of a violation of the statutory offense, but in aggravation thereof, and may be considered by the trial judge in imposing the sentence...". Carrying for what sounds like first-strike capability is just scary whether you claim to carry legally or not. I have met and had pleasant talks with several hunters carrying legally on the A.T. and I have nothing against them nor do I fear them.

I request that this thread be closed as well as it is obvious that it serves no useful purpose. Hey, you can even use this post as proof of that if that would help end this thread!

Tater
05-28-2004, 21:43
http://georgiatrails.com/at_shooting.html
Aren't you late for your plane to California?

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 21:46
Aren't you late for your plane to California?


Plane to CA??? who is flying to CA????

Im a conservative ...I would take the train or bus.
or I would walk..
it's not nearly as far to CA as it is to Maine! :D

JLB
05-28-2004, 21:53
http://georgiatrails.com/at_shooting.html

That person was shot by a hunter, armed with a .243 deer rifle, not by a "IWAG" hiker.

Not the same thing, my friend.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 22:00
[QUOTE=JLB]Please post me a link to the stories of the hikers who were injured by IWAGs, as I cannot find anybody who has been shot by accident, only murders.[QUOTE]


you only mentioned IWAG not that the IWAG also had to be a hiker.

Alligator
05-28-2004, 22:05
:welcome -L---------------

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 22:09
That person was shot by a hunter, armed with a .243 deer rifle, not by a "IWAG" hiker.

Not the same thing, my friend.

Who said only hikers could be IWAGs?

You may only argue whether or not the hunter was an idiot, or whether he had a gun.

Second IWAG, as requested:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/trailnews/tn_janfeb03.html

Second Hiker Wounded in Hunting Accident
On New Year's Day, a hiker was shot and seriously wounded on the Appalachian Trail in the Jefferson National Forest near Bastian, Va., his family reports. The victim, George Ziegenfuss, a 1989 thru-hiker and retired Lutheran minister, was on his almost-daily hike about a mile north of Laurel Creek (Va. 615) when he was hit by a .45-caliber bullet in the back.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 22:13
Who said only hikers could be IWAGs?

You may only argue whether or not the hunter was an idiot, or whether he had a gun.


or both..an idiot and that he had a gun....

maybe we should post links about IWAGs ....there are a lot of idiots with guns.


Even President Bush...knows about IWAGs....and he should know

http://www.eyeshot.net/idiotguns1.html

JLB
05-28-2004, 22:26
First, I see no reason to carry a large knife on the A. T.. Second, before any hikers start saying: “ did I unwittingly break the law by carrying a knife?”, look at the facts. Another poster has tried to make you believe that it is illegal to carry a knife on the A.T. and that isn’t really true. No one can seriously believe that your Lexan utensils are “weapons”. To quote part of the law regarding carrying knifes while leaving out important parts to try to prove your weak case is akin to lying. Lets look at what a few states say about knifes.

GA 16-11-126 A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view……………………………
Admin Note: Only under school carry is the length of a knife blade mentioned in Georgia Law. As 16-11-126 it looks like open carry of a knife is legal.
Wrong.


If Jack carried the knife in his pack at any time in Georgia, he commited a crime.


Georgia law
16-11-126.
(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in an open manner and fully exposed to view, any bludgeon, metal knuckles, firearm, knife designed for the purpose of offense and defense, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character outside of his or her home or place of business, except as permitted under this Code section.

Notice that there is NO EXCEPTION FOR HIKERS!!!




NC-14-269 Provisions for the legal concealed carriage of long or fixed blade knives, switchblades, or other types of generally prohibited weapons, do not exist. Generally speaking, there is no prohibition against open carry of handguns, nor the open carrying of certain types of knives that would normally be considered illegal if carried in a concealed manner.
Once again, if he carried his knife in his pack, he was illegal. Carrying guns openly, just like knives, is legal.




TN 39-17-1307 A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4"), or a club.
His blade exceeded 4" by his own admission. He broke the law.




VA § 18.2-308
If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation……………………………..,

W. VA. §61-7-2. Definitions.
a hunting or fishing knife carried for hunting, fishing, sports or other recreational uses, or a knife designed for use as a tool or household implement shall not be included within the term "knife" as defined herein unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death.
I did not comment on West Va. before.





Baltimore Jack committed no crime by openly carrying his knife in the past. He admitted it was in plain view and its purpose was to cut rope or slice cheese. That hardly qualifies as “an attempt to go armed”, even under TN law. When was the last time you read of a report of police raiding a picnic area or wayside in VA and arresting people for having illegal knifes? Despite what one poster would have you believe, Jack committed no crime other than believing the BS from that poster. Jack wasn’t carrying a “concealed” weapon as it was in plain view. The purpose of his knife had nothing to do with fear of others but was utilitarian and multi-use. On the other hand, when was the last time you saw someone slice cheese with their Glock? How many times have you seen news reports involving confiscated guns? If you compare my quotes of the state weapons laws you will find that they differ wildly from what was posted previously. I'll let you decide who edited the quotes to slant them to push their own agenda.
By your own posts, it is legal to carry a gun openly, if it is legal to carry a knife openly.

Are you starting to see your hypocrisy yet?




There are specific prohibitions against certain items in national parks and other areas. For instance, you are not allowed to carry glass containers through the Shenandoah but when I went thru, the campground stores were selling peanut butter in glass jars. I don’t think you’d find rangers waiting to arrest hikers leaving the camp stores with jars of peanut butter. Also I don’t believe they have classified Leki poles as deadly weapons yet either. They could be considered a weapon only if they were “knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death”, as WV law defines a weapon. This principle is almost universal and why cars can be viewed as “deadly weapons” when intentionally used to kill someone. It certainly does not mean that all cars are deadly weapons.
Are you starting to see the point yet?
Yes, you are confused about what can be a deadly weapon and what isn't. It goes back to what I have been saying all along:

It's the intent that makes it illegal or legal, not the weapon.

All you have done is bolstered my argument, by posting case law that says a knife is considered the same as a gun, in Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina.




On the other hand there are very specific rules regarding firearms, concealed or not. They have no other use other than to shoot. They certainly don’t work well to drive in tent stakes because you could end up one shot (yeh, that’s a horrid pun). All the pithy arguments and clichés from JLB won’t change the fact that guns are not multi-use and are generally banned in most areas the A.T. passes through. Carrying a weapon out of fear of meeting a “problem” person on the A. T. is not justification for illegal carrying.
I don't carry a gun for a multi uses capability. I carry it for it's intended purpose, for defense.



NC case law says it well: “Carrying concealed weapons in reasonable apprehension of deadly assaults is not justification of a violation of the statutory offense, but in aggravation thereof, and may be considered by the trial judge in imposing the sentence...". Carrying for what sounds like first-strike capability is just scary whether you claim to carry legally or not. I have met and had pleasant talks with several hunters carrying legally on the A.T. and I have nothing against them nor do I fear them.
Why are you scared? You should only be scared if you intend to do me harm, and if you do, then my gun has already achieved it's purpose.




I request that this thread be closed as well as it is obvious that it serves no useful purpose. Hey, you can even use this post as proof of that if that would help end this thread!

No, I think you guys are learning a lot here.

Alligator
05-28-2004, 22:29
:welcome --B--------------

JLB
05-28-2004, 22:29
[QUOTE=JLB]Please post me a link to the stories of the hikers who were injured by IWAGs, as I cannot find anybody who has been shot by accident, only murders.[QUOTE]


you only mentioned IWAG not that the IWAG also had to be a hiker.

I don't see how your analogy is valid, as I am not going to be hunting.

Do you have any stories of hikers carrying guns injuring other hikers?

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 22:32
only idiots

JLB
05-28-2004, 22:32
Who said only hikers could be IWAGs?

You may only argue whether or not the hunter was an idiot, or whether he had a gun.

Second IWAG, as requested:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/trailnews/tn_janfeb03.html

Second Hiker Wounded in Hunting Accident
On New Year's Day, a hiker was shot and seriously wounded on the Appalachian Trail in the Jefferson National Forest near Bastian, Va., his family reports. The victim, George Ziegenfuss, a 1989 thru-hiker and retired Lutheran minister, was on his almost-daily hike about a mile north of Laurel Creek (Va. 615) when he was hit by a .45-caliber bullet in the back.

Key words:


"Hunting accident"


Again, no hiker having a firearms accident with another.

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 22:33
Sorry, but being clueless about backpacking, and I never pretended to be otherwise, does not translate to being clueless about firearms.

&

Why? Is my gun going to ambush me?

First part: So you say. And I'm a circus performer who can juggle 5 flaming torches. On the Internet, that is.

Second: It's not only you that I'm worried about.

JLB
05-28-2004, 22:37
First part: So you say. And I'm a circus performer who can juggle 5 flaming torches. On the Internet, that is.

Second: It's not only you that I'm worried about.

The great thing about America is that I don't have to prove anything to you to exercise my freedom.

Why are you worried, since you cannot point to a hiker having a gun accident?

Do you worry about bear attacks? There seem to be more black bears killing people than hikers.

Try to rationalize your fear.

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 22:37
Key words:


"Hunting accident"


Again, no hiker having a firearms accident with another.


Key words: Idiot. With A Gun.

Why do you insist on changing the subject?

Alligator
05-28-2004, 22:38
:welcome --- ----------

JLB
05-28-2004, 22:40
Key words: Idiot. With A Gun.

Why do you insist on changing the subject?


Yes, I don't like idiots with guns either, but lets stick to the ones on the trail, o.k.?

Can you show me a hiker having a gun accident, or not?

Alligator
05-28-2004, 22:43
:welcome ----H------------

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 22:56
The great thing about America is that I don't have to prove anything to you to exercise my freedom.

Why are you worried, since you cannot point to a hiker having a gun accident?

Do you worry about bear attacks? There seem to be more black bears killing people than hikers.

Try to rationalize your fear.

I never said anything about restricting your freedom. That would take Legislative action. We're talking about exercising choices. Agree?

Who's worried about a hiker having a gun accidents? I'm worried about hikers who might be HURT by a gun accident.

I worry about bears, racoons, mice, snakes, ticks, mosquitoes, chiggers, poison ivy, giardia, blisters, dehydration, hypothermia, heat exhaustion, sprained joints, sunburn, pulled muscles, spilling my fuel, getting lost, puncturing my sleeping pad, running out of Bourbon, and having dead batteries in my radio. Those are all fairly predictable, avoidable, or manageable. I can't tell when someone might have a gun accident near me, but if they aren't carrying a gun then the chances are greatly diminished.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:07
I never said anything about restricting your freedom. That would take Legislative action. We're talking about exercising choices. Agree?
I agree. I will exercise my choice, and you will exercise yours. Both will be happy as a result.




Who's worried about a hiker having a gun accidents? I'm worried about hikers who might be HURT by a gun accident.
That's an irrational worry, as you cannot point to an example of an accident by a hiker.




I worry about bears, racoons, mice, snakes, ticks, mosquitoes, chiggers, poison ivy, giardia, blisters, dehydration, hypothermia, heat exhaustion, sprained joints, sunburn, pulled muscles, spilling my fuel, getting lost, puncturing my sleeping pad, running out of Bourbon, and having dead batteries in my radio. Those are all fairly predictable, avoidable, or manageable. I can't tell when someone might have a gun accident near me, but if they aren't carrying a gun then the chances are greatly diminished.
On 2100 miles of trail, your chances of running into somebody whose gun is going to jump out of his pack and have an accident are .00000000000001%.

You are far more likely to be abducted by aliens.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:08
:welcome ----H------------

Padding the post count, eh? :bse

Alligator
05-28-2004, 23:10
:welcome -----S-----------

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:18
gun in a pack??? you gonna have to be quick to protect yourself if you have your gun in your pack...them bears run away fast.

dred and coaly you better run fast
when the bear feed on the mast.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:23
gun in a pack??? you gonna have to be quick to protect yourself if you have your gun in your pack...them bears run away fast.

dred and coaly you better run fast
when the bear feed on the mast.

Fanny pack = pack.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:26
so your going to carry a fanny pack for a month long hike???

SGT Rock
05-28-2004, 23:27
Oh come on now JLB. Geeze. No wonder you have been banned from even gun sites.

A hunter shooting someone on the trail certainly qualifies for an accidental shooting and an IWAG. Sice someone pointed one out to you, now you want to change it and dare them to find something to fit your definition. Sounds a little like sour grapes instead of admitting that even a trained and experienced gun owner (if you read the articles) can have a gun accident while not intending to.

It would seem to a fair minded person not totally bent on defending their position that a gun accident in this case is inexcusable but certainly shows the fact that even a person without any intent of doing a fellow human being harm can still do so with a gun. The bugaboo about knives is still a total straw dog because if I slip when cutting the cheese with my leatherman Micra I will not end someones life or take the ability to walk away from them forever. Carrying a 4" knife on your belt certainly is never going to be the same as a person with a .38 hidden in their belt. I would certainly consider target B the most likely threat in combat and so would you, so why not stop even pulling out that false balloon, it makes you sound a little like a bad lawyer trying to win a case.

Honestly you keep saying we fear guns, well any sane person would have a fear, or rather a respect for guns. But on the other hand you continue to say you have no fear because you have a gun. Does that mean without the gun you are afraid? Please take that as a retorical question that doesn't really need an answer on the board. On the other hand, a lot of sane and experienced hikers here (and even us other gun owners) have told you that you don't need a gun. It is a friendly gesture to help you along by pointing out what we already know. Again you tell us that you are more experienced with guns and don't need our advice on such things which I guess means you feel smarter or more expereinced than us. the funny thing is, some of the people you have accused of being gun fearing liberals because of this are actually law enforcement, combat veterans, etc. Instead of arguing and bantering to the point of trying to narrowly define an issue to win, maybe you should take "let it slide 101" and "passive/active listening 102". Really, some people here are trying to help, not trying to win an argument.

Anyway, unless this thread gets a little more rational, I intend to shut it down because of the banter this has developed. Geeze. If you disagree with JLB, you couldn't change his mind even if God himself came down and told him.

Alligator
05-28-2004, 23:30
:welcome ------ ----------

Dances with Mice
05-28-2004, 23:32
Rock said a lot of stuff better than me. I'm letting it rest.

JLB - Have a good hike. And don't be an idiot.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:34
yea ROCK is a smart guy...I'm glad he protecting us ..and he owns guns.

One thing for sure we know that ROCk isn't an IWAG...

others we are not so sure about.


GO ARMY

Alligator
05-28-2004, 23:39
:welcome -------D---------

SGT Rock
05-28-2004, 23:40
Yes I own guns, and might even be able to keep up with a lot of people in a good GUN SITE (note: this is not one of them, please) and maybe even able to keep up on some ranges with the competetors. I do even have a little background at what getting shot at really feels like and what shooting back at another human really is like. I even have hiked and sadly, used to carry - and I know I was illegal at the time now thanks to some good people on this board. I have lashed myself with something hard and painfull in repentance and now I do not carry because I have found unneeded and it actually has interfeared with the enjoyment of my hike. Maybe if I were hiking and hunting and doing it somewhere like Alaska, then I would be into getting into a discussion about it. But this is an AT forum and it would be like talking about driving my Ford Focus own the trail - it just doesn't belong.

Anyway, if you want to talk guns and hiking, please do it on some other board. most of the answers to the question about what you carry for protection on the trail was a jest, it was never meant to get this stupid and this serious.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:44
I always bring my legs with me :D

Alligator
05-28-2004, 23:51
:welcome --------O--------

SGT Rock
05-28-2004, 23:52
Alligator must play a lot of "Wheel of Fortune"

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:52
Oh come on now JLB. Geeze. No wonder you have been banned from even gun sites.
What is that supposed to mean? Is winning an argument cause for banning?




A hunter shooting someone on the trail certainly qualifies for an accidental shooting and an IWAG. Sice someone pointed one out to you, now you want to change it and dare them to find something to fit your definition. Sounds a little like sour grapes instead of admitting that even a trained and experienced gun owner (if you read the articles) can have a gun accident while not intending to.
No, a hunter is not a valid comparison, because they are walking around with guns, and have the intent to shoot something. Mis-identifying a hiker as a deer is not the same thing as a hiker having an accidental discharge, I'm sorry to say.




It would seem to a fair minded person not totally bent on defending their position that a gun accident in this case is inexcusable but certainly shows the fact that even a person without any intent of doing a fellow human being harm can still do so with a gun. The bugaboo about knives is still a total straw dog because if I slip when cutting the cheese with my leatherman Micra I will not end someones life or take the ability to walk away from them forever. Carrying a 4" knife on your belt certainly is never going to be the same as a person with a .38 hidden in their belt. I would certainly consider target B the most likely threat in combat and so would you, so why not stop even pulling out that false balloon, it makes you sound a little like a bad lawyer trying to win a case.
Exactly what I have been saying. It goes once again, to the intent of the owner. A responsible gun owner will not have his gun out, as it is not a dual use item, thus it is impossible to have an accident.

A man with a knife is just as dangerous as one with a gun, if he wishes to do you harm.




Honestly you keep saying we fear guns, well any sane person would have a fear, or rather a respect for guns. But on the other hand you continue to say you have no fear because you have a gun. Does that mean without the gun you are afraid? Please take that as a retorical question that doesn't really need an answer on the board. On the other hand, a lot of sane and experienced hikers here (and even us other gun owners) have told you that you don't need a gun. It is a friendly gesture to help you along by pointing out what we already know. Again you tell us that you are more experienced with guns and don't need our advice on such things which I guess means you feel smarter or more expereinced than us. the funny thing is, some of the people you have accused of being gun fearing liberals because of this are actually law enforcement, combat veterans, etc. Instead of arguing and bantering to the point of trying to narrowly define an issue to win, maybe you should take "let it slide 101" and "passive/active listening 102". Really, some people here are trying to help, not trying to win an argument.
A lot of you do seem to fear guns, as you cannot point to a hiker misusing one, yet still you object to their prescence.

I never said I have no fears, but my fears are confined to the things that can do me harm beyond my control, not to inanimate objects, that some think can transform an honest man into a felon.




Anyway, unless this thread gets a little more rational, I intend to shut it down because of the banter this has developed. Geeze. If you disagree with JLB, you couldn't change his mind even if God himself came down and told him.
I agree that there is little rational thought coming from those who are arguing against firearms, but that is par for the course. Knowledge and logic are the cure for irrationality.

dixicritter
05-28-2004, 23:53
Or maybe hangman? :D

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:53
Rock said a lot of stuff better than me. I'm letting it rest.

JLB - Have a good hike. And don't be an idiot.
You do the same. :)

SGT Rock
05-28-2004, 23:54
I guess you missed the point of everything I said.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:55
Yes I own guns, and might even be able to keep up with a lot of people in a good GUN SITE (note: this is not one of them, please) and maybe even able to keep up on some ranges with the competetors. I do even have a little background at what getting shot at really feels like and what shooting back at another human really is like. I even have hiked and sadly, used to carry - and I know I was illegal at the time now thanks to some good people on this board. I have lashed myself with something hard and painfull in repentance and now I do not carry because I have found unneeded and it actually has interfeared with the enjoyment of my hike. Maybe if I were hiking and hunting and doing it somewhere like Alaska, then I would be into getting into a discussion about it. But this is an AT forum and it would be like talking about driving my Ford Focus own the trail - it just doesn't belong.

Anyway, if you want to talk guns and hiking, please do it on some other board. most of the answers to the question about what you carry for protection on the trail was a jest, it was never meant to get this stupid and this serious.

Considering that 12% of your members have indicated that they carry a gun on the trail, this discussion is as valid as a bear spray discussion, isn't it?

Alligator
05-28-2004, 23:55
:welcome ---------G-------

SGT Rock
05-28-2004, 23:56
yep, you did.

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:57
Or maybe hangman? :D

now that's a good idea.

dixicritter
05-28-2004, 23:58
now that's a good idea.
LOL.... didn't mean to give you guys any ideas there. ;)

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:58
Considering that 12% of your members have indicated that they carry a gun on the trail, this discussion is as valid as a bear spray discussion, isn't it?

you don't need bear spray eithier..the bears run away to fast..that is if you are lucky enough to see a bear.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:58
yep, you did.
The title of the thread is:

What do you Carry for Protection on the Trail?


Since 8% of your members admit to carrying a firearm, why do you think this topic is not valid?

edit for proper %

smokymtnsteve
05-28-2004, 23:59
LOL.... didn't mean to give you guys any ideas there. ;)


well nearly all hikers carry a "hanging" rope..and if they don't they should.

JLB
05-28-2004, 23:59
you don't need bear spray eithier..the bears run away to fast..that is if you are lucky enough to see a bear.
So now 25% of the members here are wrong, right?

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:00
:welcome ---------- ------

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:01
Hey Aligator hurry up with those letters. It's past my bedtime and now I couldn't sleep not knowing what the rest is. :rolleyes:

SGT Rock
05-29-2004, 00:02
Everyone waits in anticipation for what Alligator is spelling :confused:

steve hiker
05-29-2004, 00:03
JLB I'll tell you what you need to be a-scared of, it will sneak up on you and you won't even suspect it. When you get to the NJ portion of the trail there are these bars near the trail that you'll go to at night, and some of them girls are real friendly and will take you home with them. But watch out JLB, some of them gurls gots REAL BAD CLAMP.

I speek from experience. :o

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:03
well nearly all hikers carry a "hanging" rope..and if they don't they should.
Well at least rope is multi-use.....LOL.

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2004, 00:03
So now 25% of the members here are wrong, right?

that why most folks come to whiteblaze..to learn what they need or don't need for thier hike. why myself I don't even carry a knife.

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2004, 00:04
Everyone waits in anticipation for what Alligator is spelling :confused:


can I buy a vowel????

SGT Rock
05-29-2004, 00:04
yea, he had to borrow mine

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:04
:welcome -----------H-----

JLB
05-29-2004, 00:05
JLB I'll tell you what you need to be a-scared of, it will sneak up on you and you won't even suspect it. When you get to the NJ portion of the trail there are these bars near the trail that you'll go to at night, and some of them girls are real friendly and will take you home with them. But watch out JLB, some of them gurls gots REAL BAD CLAMP.

I speek from experience. :o

I'm married, but thanks for the tip. :D

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:06
:welcome ------------E----

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2004, 00:06
JLB I'll tell you what you need to be a-scared of, it will sneak up on you and you won't even suspect it. When you get to the NJ portion of the trail there are these bars near the trail that you'll go to at night, and some of them girls are real friendly and will take you home with them. But watch out JLB, some of them gurls gots REAL BAD CLAMP.

I speek from experience. :o

you should have carried and used protection :banana

JLB
05-29-2004, 00:06
that why most folks come to whiteblaze..to learn what they need or don't need for thier hike. why myself I don't even carry a knife.

I'm glad you are happy with your choice, as I will be happy with mine. :banana

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:07
:welcome ------------- ---

SGT Rock
05-29-2004, 00:07
I quit using protection after the "proceedure" :o

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:09
:welcome --------------F--

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:09
Three letters to go :banana

Oops make that two

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:10
:welcome ---------------K-

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2004, 00:11
well I use protection every time cause I'm packing a "deadly weapon". Have it with me all the time. even sleep with it ;) and it can be ready at a moments notice given the right circumstances :D

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:12
well I use protection every time cause I'm packing a "deadly weapon". Have it with me all the time. even sleep with it ;) and it can be ready at a moments notice given the right circumstances :D
better safe than sorry..... right Steve?

SGT Rock
05-29-2004, 00:12
I think old 'gator is missing some letters

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:14
:welcome ----------------S

Sorry DC for the language.

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:25
I guess I can C the point of this thread. :jump

Alligator
05-29-2004, 00:29
'night Jack.

The Old Fhart
05-29-2004, 00:31
JLB-“Wrong. If Jack carried the knife in his pack at any time in Georgia, he commited a crime.”
Yes, and using your illogic, if pigs had wings they could fly. Jack didn’t say he carried it concealed, you are trying to imply that. Please stick to the facts, don’t create hypothetical situations and use them as facts, you can do better than that. .

Georgia law
16-11-126.

JLB-“Notice that there is NO EXCEPTION FOR HIKERS!!!
Absolutely correct. Notice I never said there was an exception-for anyone. The statute is talking about prohibiting concealed weapons. What it says pertaining to open carry of weapons is that that is legal. What can’t you understand about open carry?

NC-14-269

JLB-“ Once again, if he carried his knife in his pack, he was illegal “
I really beginning to like your sense of humor! Do you really believe that by clicking your heels and saying “there’s no place like home”, you end up in Kansas? As you are fond of saying: “for the 10th time”, Jack never said he carried concealed. Stick to the facts, repeating the same old hypothetical is getting old. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it will never become fact.

TN 39-17-1307

JLB-“ His blade exceeded 4" by his own admission. He broke the law.
Sorry you can’t read the bold text which says: “with the intent to go armed
If there was no intent to go armed, there is no conflict with the statute. Once again, you missed the mark, are you sure you are a highly skilled marksman like you claim?

W. VA. §61-7-2.

JLB-“ I did not comment on West Va. before.”
Of course you didn’t comment on WV, it again doesn’t support your claim. It clearly excludes knives from the weapon category unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death. Let me say this in simple terms so you can understand it. The law realizes that ordinary people, not limited to, or excluding hikers, use knives for eating at home and for picnics, etc. The law says this use is legal with the only reservation being when they are use to produce serious bodily injury or death. A “legally” carried gun becomes a deadly weapon if you beat someone to death with it even though you haven’t used it to shoot anyone. Can you understand that simple concept? .


JLB-“ By your own posts, it is legal to carry a gun openly, if it is legal to carry a knife openly.”
Once again you use illogic to try to fool people. Because cats and dogs are both animals doesn’t mean that a cat is a dog. Both a knife and a gun can be weapons, a gun always is. That is why many more knives are used in kitchens than guns. (Actually I don’t know about your kitchen!) There are more regulations on owning and buying guns than knives. I don’t need an FFL to sell kitchen knives and they can’t be modified to cut full automatic. I do hope you can tell the difference between a knife and a gun, or I hope you don’t use your gun as an eating utensil!


JLB-“ All you have done is bolstered my argument, by posting case law that says a knife is considered the same as a gun, in Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina.’
The laws in those states don’t consider guns and knives the same, that’s why they have different sections of the laws mentioning each. In Georgia, only under school carry is the length of a knife blade mentioned in Law. Are you implying that section also said guns are legal in schools? Your arguments are laughable and would be truly funny if you didn’t really believe all those half-truths you post.


JLB- Why are you scared? You should only be scared if you intend to do me harm, and if you do, then my gun has already achieved it's purpose.

Ah, at last your signature comeback! I see you don’t understand the nuances of the English language. Please reread this quote: “I have met and had pleasant talks with several hunters carrying legally on the A.T. and I have nothing against them nor do I fear them.” I haven’t said I was scared at all. The statement “Carrying for what sounds like first-strike capability is just scary whether you claim to carry legally or not.“ doesn’t imply I’m scared but rather the thought of you loose among normal people should be a cause of concern. Your saying “You should only be scared if you intend to do me harm, and if you do, then my gun has already achieved it's purpose” sounds like a remark from a scared, insecure indididual and you have used it before. What are you afraid of. Why do you have to continually remind people that you are armed and won’t hesitate to use deadly force against them? Why are you so paranoid. Don’t answer the last question, it was rhetorical. I know you have trouble understanding English.

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:36
Sorry DC for the language.

I live with a soldier.... :rolleyes: I thought that language was normal everyday stuff... ;)

Seriously, not offended by the language, am upset that Whiteblaze and it's members are getting trashed like this. Whiteblaze is about hiking the AT, and before I get slammed... no I am not a hiker, never have claimed to be one, however, that said... SGT Rock is and I support HIM. The AT means a great deal to him, as does this site. Don't make me get ugly folks. I'll start lining y'all up like I do my boys.

Now behave, and go talk about hiking, or trail blazing, or gear or how much something weighs for goodness sakes.
:cool:

JLB
05-29-2004, 00:42
Yes, and using your illogic, if pigs had wings they could fly. Jack didn’t say he carried it concealed, you are trying to imply that. Please stick to the facts, don’t create hypothetical situations and use them as facts, you can do better than that. .

Georgia law
16-11-126.

Absolutely correct. Notice I never said there was an exception-for anyone. The statute is talking about prohibiting concealed weapons. What it says pertaining to open carry of weapons is that that is legal. What can’t you understand about open carry?

NC-14-269

I really beginning to like your sense of humor! Do you really believe that by clicking your heels and saying “there’s no place like home”, you end up in Kansas? As you are fond of saying: “for the 10th time”, Jack never said he carried concealed. Stick to the facts, repeating the same old hypothetical is getting old. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it will never become fact.

TN 39-17-1307

Sorry you can’t read the bold text which says: “with the intent to go armed
If there was no intent to go armed, there is no conflict with the statute. Once again, you missed the mark, are you sure you are a highly skilled marksman like you claim?

W. VA. §61-7-2.

Of course you didn’t comment on WV, it again doesn’t support your claim. It clearly excludes knives from the weapon category unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death. Let me say this in simple terms so you can understand it. The law realizes that ordinary people, not limited to, or excluding hikers, use knives for eating at home and for picnics, etc. The law says this use is legal with the only reservation being when they are use to produce serious bodily injury or death. A “legally” carried gun becomes a deadly weapon if you beat someone to death with it even though you haven’t used it to shoot anyone. Can you understand that simple concept? .

Please try not to tell me that not one person on this board, including yourself and Jack, has ever carried their knife in their pack.

As to the intent, the intent is not known until after the crime has been commited, not before. You may not intend to be armed with your big knife, but you still may kill me with it.



Once again you use illogic to try to fool people. Because cats and dogs are both animals doesn’t mean that a cat is a dog. Both a knife and a gun can be weapons, a gun always is. That is why many more knives are used in kitchens than guns. (Actually I don’t know about your kitchen!) There are more regulations on owning and buying guns than knives. I don’t need an FFL to sell kitchen knives and they can’t be modified to cut full automatic. I do hope you can tell the difference between a knife and a gun, or I hope you don’t use your gun as an eating utensil!
I never said a gun was a dual use weapon, infact I said the opposite. Pay attention.



The laws in those states don’t consider guns and knives the same, that’s why they have different sections of the laws mentioning each. In Georgia, only under school carry is the length of a knife blade mentioned in Law. Are you implying that section also said guns are legal in schools? Your arguments are laughable and would be truly funny if you didn’t really believe all that half-truths you post.
The laws I posted treat the carry of gun and knives in the same manner. Concealed is not ok, open carry is ok. I have a permit that is valid in multiple states, so I can carry either way.




Ah, at last you signature comeback! I see you don’t understand the nuances of the English language. Please reread this quote: “I have met and had pleasant talks with several hunters carrying legally on the A.T. and I have nothing against them nor do I fear them.” I haven’t said I was scared at all. The statement “Carrying for what sounds like first-strike capability is just scary whether you claim to carry legally or not.“ doesn’t imply I’m scared but rather the thought of you loose among normal people should be a cause of concern. Your saying “You should only be scared if you intend to do me harm, and if you do, then my gun has already achieved it's purpose” sounds like a remark from a scared, insecure indididual and you have used it before. What are you afraid of. Why do you have to continually remind people that you are armed and won’t hesitate to use deadly force against them? Why are you so paranoid. Don’t answer the last question, it was rhetorical. I know you have trouble understanding English.
No, as I have said before, you will never know I am armed, unless you attack me. This is the internet, not real life. We are arguing the merits and legality of carrying weapons, so try to stick to that.

As for being paranoid, I should ask you the same question. Why are you so paranoid about something that means you no harm?

JLB
05-29-2004, 00:48
I live with a soldier.... :rolleyes: I thought that language was normal everyday stuff... ;)

Seriously, not offended by the language, am upset that Whiteblaze and it's members are getting trashed like this. Whiteblaze is about hiking the AT, and before I get slammed... no I am not a hiker, never have claimed to be one, however, that said... SGT Rock is and I support HIM. The AT means a great deal to him, as does this site. Don't make me get ugly folks. I'll start lining y'all up like I do my boys.

Now behave, and go talk about hiking, or trail blazing, or gear or how much something weighs for goodness sakes.
:cool:

Why would you be suprised that if somebody starts a thread about protection on the trail, that we might actually discuss PROTECTION ON THE TRAIL?

Why would you think that just because most of your members choose a different method of defense, that the rest of us might find this topic interesting?

Who is getting trashed? We are having a discussion here, and we are having it on a thread that has as it's topic, the very thing we are discussing.

dixicritter
05-29-2004, 00:52
Why would you be suprised that if somebody starts a thread about protection on the trail, that we might actually discuss PROTECTION ON THE TRAIL?

You aren't, you are arguing guns.


Why would you think that just because most of your members choose a different method of defense, that the rest of us might find this topic interesting?

This site was created to discuss the AT not guns.


Who is getting trashed? We are having a discussion here, and we are having it on a thread that has as it's topic, the very thing we are discussing.

Ok whatever.... :rolleyes:

JLB
05-29-2004, 00:57
You aren't, you are arguing guns.
Which are a valid means of protection in the woods. Otherwise, Lewis and Clarke would have left theirs at home, right?




This site was created to discuss the AT not guns.
This thread was created to discuss guns, as it's listed right there in the poll.

Go look.




Ok whatever.... :rolleyes:
Indeed.

smokymtnsteve
05-29-2004, 00:59
they say mental illness can be contagious....we better get out of here dixicriter..we are being exposed :D

JLB
05-29-2004, 01:01
they say mental illness can be contagious....we better get out of here dixicriter..we are being exposed :D

I'm sorry I exposed your mental illness. Hoplophobia is treatable, with education, and trigger time. :)

attroll
05-29-2004, 02:20
This thread is getting close to closing also. Here is the warning. Stop feeding JLB and then he will stop replying to your remarks. If you don't reply then he has nothing to reply to. But if you give him something to reply to then he is always going to reply to it. Again I am not singleing out JLB. Whom, says he is only defending himself. Well if he does not have any replies to his remarks then he does not have anything to reply to. So if you are tired of hearing from him then don't reply. It is as simple as that.

JLB
05-29-2004, 02:28
This thread is getting close to closing also. Here is the warning. Stop feeding JLB and then he will stop replying to your remarks. If you don't reply then he has nothing to reply to. But if you give him something to reply to then he is always going to reply to it. Again I am not singleing out JLB. Whom, says he is only defending himself. Well if he does not have any replies to his remarks then he does not have anything to reply to. So if you are tired of hearing from him then don't reply. It is as simple as that.

I agree. Besides, I'm sure you all have some opinions about whether or not I should bring my beagle with me on my hike, so I would like to hear all of the pro-dog, and anti-dog opinions. I'm not leaning either way, so you will be educating me for a change. :D

attroll
05-29-2004, 02:31
I agree. Besides, I'm sure you all have some opinions about whether or not I should bring my beagle with me on my hike, so I would like to hear all of the pro-dog, and anti-dog opinions. I'm not leaning either way, so you will be educating me for a change. :D
Shut Up. We have heard enough!

budman5
05-29-2004, 04:39
JLB..Good show, you certainly have supported your assertions with fact and good natured debate. Why have so many attacked you for discussing one of the topics in the poll header? Debate doesn't have to be Mean Spirited if you can backup what you believe in.

SGT Rock
05-29-2004, 07:27
I'm going hiking and I think ATTroll is too. So, we will be off the net for a couple of days doing something some of y'all need to do - BACKPACKING.

Play nice!

If you can't be good boys and girls, then you will have to go to the hole until you learn better.

If someone annoys you, just put them on ignore or something for goodness sakes.