New to trails, few questions help appriciated.

[HappySack]

Hello WB, I have been lurking on here and reading for a while now, tons of great information but I have not been able to find a few key things I'm looking for I was hopeing I could get some help.

I am rather new to hiking long distance, I hike a couple times a week just day hikes right now but never a big trail like the AT.

I leave for the AT on the 30th of this month starting in Maine and going south, since im starting late I figured i would be better to go south since it would get colder slower. I am going for as long as I can with no real set goal on miles or anything I just want to get out there and hike/camp for as long as possible. I have everything prepared for the most part for this trip other than some minor things (Seemingly)

My question is this, I see comments on this site that lead me to beleive that you have to stay in shelters or in designated areas when your camping, is this so? I am going Hammock/Tent so that I would have a choice between the three: Shelter, hammock, tent. I would rather avoid shelters, I have been sleeping outside for almost 4 months now as part of my preperation for the hike and I sleep better in my tent than I ever did inside.

Would I be breaking trail rules if I camped away from the trail in the woods? Is there somewhere I can find the trail rules? I have looked with little luck, my AT Data Book and Companion still have not come in the mail so I haven't been able to do that kind of planning yet but hopefully soon.

Any insight would be great, I searched around and couldn't find my answers.

Thanks and happy hiking.

[T-Dubs]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25785

Recent thread on this. I hope this helps.

TWS

[Lone Wolf]

Hello WB, I have been lurking on here and reading for a while now, tons of great information but I have not been able to find a few key things I'm looking for I was hopeing I could get some help.

I am rather new to hiking long distance, I hike a couple times a week just day hikes right now but never a big trail like the AT.

I leave for the AT on the 30th of this month starting in Maine and going south, since im starting late I figured i would be better to go south since it would get colder slower. I am going for as long as I can with no real set goal on miles or anything I just want to get out there and hike/camp for as long as possible. I have everything prepared for the most part for this trip other than some minor things (Seemingly)

My question is this, I see comments on this site that lead me to beleive that you have to stay in shelters or in designated areas when your camping, is this so? I am going Hammock/Tent so that I would have a choice between the three: Shelter, hammock, tent. I would rather avoid shelters, I have been sleeping outside for almost 4 months now as part of my preperation for the hike and I sleep better in my tent than I ever did inside.

Would I be breaking trail rules if I camped away from the trail in the woods? Is there somewhere I can find the trail rules? I have looked with little luck, my AT Data Book and Companion still have not come in the mail so I haven't been able to do that kind of planning yet but hopefully soon.

Any insight would be great, I searched around and couldn't find my answers.

Thanks and happy hiking.

You're SUPPOSED to camp in designated areas in Baxter Park, above treeline in the Whites, in Shenandoah Nat. Park and the Great Smoky Mtns. Nat. Park.

[peanuts]

happysack, welcome to wb, and why are you taking a tent and a hammock?

[Jack Tarlin]

There are very few places in Maine (or anywhere else on the A.T. for that matter) where you are limited as to where you can camp. Baxter State Park in Maine is one, obviously. And there are some high-use areas that restrict camping; these are almost always posted with a sign. And obviously, on private property, camping may be forbidden.

But otherwise, you can pretty much camp where you like, with a few common sense caveats:

*Many places ask (or require) that you don't camp immediately adjacent to
a stream or other water source
*You shouldn't camp at or above tree-line
*In some areas (like the White Mountains),you can't camp immediately
adjacent to any facility such as a Hut or other lodging facility. These areas
are also posted, as a rule.
*As a general rule, you should get away from the Trail, and out of sight, if
possible.
*Always try to stay at a campsite that's already there, as opposed to
carving out a new one.
*Keep fires to a reasonable size, or better yet, do without one. In some
places, they are banned.
*Always leave your campsite better than you found it, i.e. always make an
attempt to make sure that your presence there can'teven be noted....
that's what the phrase "Leave No Trace" is all about.
*A few very high-use areas might demand a small fee for overnight use.
However, these places are easily avoidable if you want to save your money.

*Lastly, to answer your main question, there are extremely few places on the
Trail where one is required to overnight at, or immediately adjacent to a
shelter. As a rule, you are NOT required to stay at these places.

[wilconow]

*As a general rule, you should get away from the Trail, and out of sight, if
possible.


not sure if I understand this one. I've seen plenty of tentsites/firerings right next to the trail in tn/nc, va, even parts of PA. why not stay there?

[Lone Wolf]

not sure if I understand this one. I've seen plenty of tentsites/firerings right next to the trail in tn/nc, va, even parts of PA. why not stay there?

no reason not to. if it's established, use it.

[wilconow]

no reason not to. if it's established, use it.


I have! This is one we used just north of the Priest. Great spot. Some hikers woke up us in the morning, but no big deal, no need to sleep in when backpacking..

[Kerosene]

This is one we used just north of the Priest. Great spot.There is a lovely view (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=458) right next door to this campsite.

[jlb2012]

You're SUPPOSED to camp in designated areas in Baxter Park, above treeline in the Whites, in Shenandoah Nat. Park and the Great Smoky Mtns. Nat. Park.

wrt SNP I guess it depends on your definition of "supposed to" - the regulations permit backcountry camping in most of the park with some exclusions. Unfortunately the exclusion wrt 0.25 miles from Skyline Drive makes it difficult for the thru hikers to find good legal sites considering how close a lot of the AT is to SD. The reg to list your campsites on the free permit is a PIA also when you don't know the park and so hikers just list the usual huts which are all that they know about because they appear on the maps and are listed in the mileage guides.

SNP backcountry camping regs: http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm

[Moon Monster]

not sure if I understand this one. I've seen plenty of tentsites/firerings right next to the trail in tn/nc, va, even parts of PA. why not stay there?

As written, Jack's very next bullet point trumps that general rule for the cases you describe.

Balance all the ethical concerns against each other depending on the specific situation. Even Leave No Trace-brand ethics acknowledge a need for picking and choosing between their rules.

By the way HappySack, I endorse your shelter combo, assuming the total weight is in check. I redundantly carried a tarp and hammock together on an 8 day trip in California last year when temperatures would be occasionally and unpredictably too cold for the hammock. Even with the added weight of having two shelters, I was happier than having to choose just the tarp. Though, I did this for temperature reasons. You could consider carrying only your hammock until Autumn sets in.

[Lyle]

HappySack,

I think others have covered the camping question pretty well. I'm surprised nobody pointed out that the Companion is available online. You can start planning before you actually get your hard copy.

http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm

Have a great trip.

[Jack Tarlin]

In some cases, (like the White Mountains) Rangers and Ridgerunners prefer that one does not camp immediately adjacent to the Trail. Also, in terms of privacy and security, a lot of folks prefer to be in less exposed areas.

[modiyooch]

You're SUPPOSED to camp in designated areas in Baxter Park, above treeline in the Whites, in Shenandoah Nat. Park and the Great Smoky Mtns. Nat. Park.Has the requirements changed for Shenandoah? When I went through in 1980, I didn't stay at the shelters or the campgrounds. I pitched off the trail and out of sight every night.

[berninbush]

*As a general rule, you should get away from the Trail, and out of sight, if
possible.
*Always try to stay at a campsite that's already there, as opposed to
carving out a new one.


This is a general hiking question I've had for a while... I like camping off the trail, out of sight or nearly so... but how on earth do you find "established campsites" if you're doing this, if they are not marked on a map? By definition, a currently-unoccupied off-the-trail site can't be seen from the trail. And on my favorite local trail, there aren't really established sites within sight of the trail either. How would you more experienced hikers/ leave-no-trace advocates choose a place to camp on a trail like that?

I should note that last time i was out there, I had to uproot some small undergrowth to make a space wide enough for my tent. I still got a hole in the floor from a stray small woody plant poking through. I don't like disturbing vegetation but I couldn't find any alternative... the only place without undergrowth was on the trail itself.

[HappySack]

Lots of great info, thanks for all the replys.


happysack, welcome to wb, and why are you taking a tent and a hammock?

Thanks for the welcome, Taking both so that I can switch back and fworth, I love sleeping in a tent but I'm sure there would be times I would want to sleep in my hammock, also it makes a kick ass seat :D


There are very few places in Maine (or anywhere else on the A.T. for that matter) where you are limited as to where you can camp. Baxter State Park in Maine is one, obviously. And there are some high-use areas that restrict camping; these are almost always posted with a sign. And obviously, on private property, camping may be forbidden.

But otherwise, you can pretty much camp where you like, with a few common sense caveats:

*Many places ask (or require) that you don't camp immediately adjacent to
a stream or other water source
*You shouldn't camp at or above tree-line
*In some areas (like the White Mountains),you can't camp immediately
adjacent to any facility such as a Hut or other lodging facility. These areas
are also posted, as a rule.
*As a general rule, you should get away from the Trail, and out of sight, if
possible.
*Always try to stay at a campsite that's already there, as opposed to
carving out a new one.
*Keep fires to a reasonable size, or better yet, do without one. In some
places, they are banned.
*Always leave your campsite better than you found it, i.e. always make an
attempt to make sure that your presence there can'teven be noted....
that's what the phrase "Leave No Trace" is all about.
*A few very high-use areas might demand a small fee for overnight use.
However, these places are easily avoidable if you want to save your money.

*Lastly, to answer your main question, there are extremely few places on the
Trail where one is required to overnight at, or immediately adjacent to a
shelter. As a rule, you are NOT required to stay at these places.

Thanks this cleared alot up!


As written, Jack's very next bullet point trumps that general rule for the cases you describe.

Balance all the ethical concerns against each other depending on the specific situation. Even Leave No Trace-brand ethics acknowledge a need for picking and choosing between their rules.

By the way HappySack, I endorse your shelter combo, assuming the total weight is in check. I redundantly carried a tarp and hammock together on an 8 day trip in California last year when temperatures would be occasionally and unpredictably too cold for the hammock. Even with the added weight of having two shelters, I was happier than having to choose just the tarp. Though, I did this for temperature reasons. You could consider carrying only your hammock until Autumn sets in.


My weight is fairly mild its around 27 pounds total with everything, my hammock is rather light I have an Eagles nest outfitters Double nest I love it.


HappySack,

I think others have covered the camping question pretty well. I'm surprised nobody pointed out that the Companion is available online. You can start planning before you actually get your hard copy.

http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm

Have a great trip.

Thanks! I don't know why I didn't think of looking for it online.



I should note that last time i was out there, I had to uproot some small undergrowth to make a space wide enough for my tent. I still got a hole in the floor from a stray small woody plant poking through. I don't like disturbing vegetation but I couldn't find any alternative... the only place without undergrowth was on the trail itself.

Another good reason to have a Hammock for when you run into problems like this.

---


Thanks for all the information everyone, big help.

[peanuts]

happysack, ditch the tent:D:D your body will thank you!
and you will find more places to hang than tent:)

[HappySack]

happysack, ditch the tent:D:D your body will thank you!
and you will find more places to hang than tent:)


Ahh maybe next year I can ditch the tent with comfort but I don't sleep very well in the Hammock yet, I always wake up around 2-3am and end up having to crawl into my tent.

I'm young I can take a little extra tent weight :D (If I end up adjusting to the Hammock better I can always ship the tent back home)

[peanuts]

what problem are you having with the hammock?you don't have bottom insulation, or how are you hanging your hammock?

[HappySack]

I Think the problem is that I'm a side sleeper and have very little success sleeping long on my back, I toss and turn alot when I sleep. I have woken up a few times half out of the Hammock.

Any suggestions or tips for a side sleeper?

[FanaticFringer]

I Think the problem is that I'm a side sleeper and have very little success sleeping long on my back, I toss and turn alot when I sleep. I have woken up a few times half out of the Hammock.

Any suggestions or tips for a side sleeper?

What kind of hammock are you using and what's your weight/height?

[HappySack]

Eagles Nest outfitters Double nest Hammock.

I'm 6ft 189 pounds. I fit in it just fine, the hammocks great and very comfortable I just don't think I can sleep on my back for more than a couple hours. I'll try some side attempts tonight see how that goes.

[peanuts]

happysack , i am a side sleeper also. the hammock its the only place where i can sleep in my back. if i am reading your last post (#22) you say" you don't think you can sleep on your back" have you tried it?
if you tried it last night, how did it work out? and did you have enough insulation?

[peanuts]

oops, i forgot to mention, i too, have the eno hammock!

[HappySack]

happysack , i am a side sleeper also. the hammock its the only place where i can sleep in my back. if i am reading your last post (#22) you say" you don't think you can sleep on your back" have you tried it?
if you tried it last night, how did it work out? and did you have enough insulation?


I have tried numerous times on my back like I said though when I sleep on my back I end up waking up around 2-3am (Damn near same time every night) Although I don't use insulation, I'll give insulating a try and see if that makes a differance.

I side slept for a few hours last night but it didn't end up being very comfortable, I'll keep playing around with it and experementing, I'm going camping in a few hours and only taking the Hammock so we'll see how it goes.

ENO makes a great Hammock though I love the thing, one of the best places to read a book!

Peanuts do you have the slap straps? I wanted to get the slap strap pros but they didn't have them in stock so I rigged something up, should I break down and buy the regual slap straps do you know anything bout them? I couldn't find any differances between the pro and the regular but don't want to break down and buy till I find out.

[peanuts]

happysack, the fact that you have not been using bottom insulation, is the answer why you wake up the same time all the time. and not sleeping confortably. you will see the difference when you do. i usually use a ccf or if ist going to be below 40, i use the dowmat 7 in my hammock.

i do have the slap straps and have been using them for over 3yrs. it does make set up easier, but it will take time for them to stop stretching! the slap strap pros are longer and narrower than the reg slap straps, so lighter.
i just recently switched to the ring/webbing system. if you have not checked into hammock forums.net do so. its stricktly hammock 24/7! the ring/webbing thread is there.

hope this helps!

[Tennessee Viking]

There might be restrictions on where you camp depending where you are at. In wilderness areas, camp fires might be prohibited. Some sections of trail were it might be too wet or the ground is not suitable for camping.
There are a few places in TN/NC where campfires are prohibited. But for off trail camping, some forest areas might prohibit this especially in the dry season.

Grab the Trail guide for the sections you are in to get a detailed info.

[HappySack]

happysack, the fact that you have not been using bottom insulation, is the answer why you wake up the same time all the time. and not sleeping confortably. you will see the difference when you do. i usually use a ccf or if ist going to be below 40, i use the dowmat 7 in my hammock.

i do have the slap straps and have been using them for over 3yrs. it does make set up easier, but it will take time for them to stop stretching! the slap strap pros are longer and narrower than the reg slap straps, so lighter.
i just recently switched to the ring/webbing system. if you have not checked into hammock forums.net do so. its stricktly hammock 24/7! the ring/webbing thread is there.

hope this helps!

Ahh thanks for the info Peanuts!, I worked the home made system out a little better after taking it out in the woods saturday and having it snap on me haha.

As for the insulation it did help a bit, I managed to sleep through the night without a whole lot of fuss.

Thanks for the insight on the slap straps, I think I will stick to my home made get up for now but slap straps hall be a future investment.






There might be restrictions on where you camp depending where you are at. In wilderness areas, camp fires might be prohibited. Some sections of trail were it might be too wet or the ground is not suitable for camping.
There are a few places in TN/NC where campfires are prohibited. But for off trail camping, some forest areas might prohibit this especially in the dry season.

Grab the Trail guide for the sections you are in to get a detailed info.


Thanks for the heads up, I'll look for trail guides.

[dperry]

My perception (which may be incorrect) is that between the time you enter Massachusetts and the time you enter Shenandoah at the north end, camping is generally limited to designated spots (with the exception of large swaths of Pennsylvania.)

However, even there, a.) you don't have to sleep in the shelter itself, you can tent nearby, and b.) not all campgrounds have shelters. GSMNP is the only place I'm aware of that you absolutely have to stay in shelters, when space is available.