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couloir99
07-12-2007, 11:30
I'm planning a thru-hike in 2008. I plan on starting early (beginning of March). I am curious what crowds will be like at the shelters. Should i still plan on bringing a tent/tarp? I plan on hiking/running it fairly fast (less than 4 months), and am thinking I might be able to find a shelter each night, which would save me some weight and help with keeping a small load. Any insight would be much appreciated.

wilconow
07-12-2007, 11:32
Yes, bring your own shelter.

taildragger
07-12-2007, 11:40
Bring your own shelter, you might not always be able to outrun the weather...

Kerosene
07-12-2007, 11:41
Most definitely, you'll need to carry some form of shelter, regardless of when you start.

Lone Wolf
07-12-2007, 11:42
I'm planning a thru-hike in 2008. I plan on starting early (beginning of March). I am curious what crowds will be like at the shelters. Should i still plan on bringing a tent/tarp? I plan on hiking/running it fairly fast (less than 4 months), and am thinking I might be able to find a shelter each night, which would save me some weight and help with keeping a small load. Any insight would be much appreciated.

ALWAYS carry some sort of shelter. NEVER count on shelter space

Tractor
07-12-2007, 11:57
100% Agree with above. ALWAYS bring some sort of shelter!

shelterbuilder
07-12-2007, 11:59
Even if it's just a tarp and some light-duty rope, bring a shelter of some kind with you. Shelters fill up fast sometimes, you can't always outrun the weather, you (or someone else) might get hurt and have to make camp unexpectedly - it's just good insurance.:cool:

sparky2000
07-12-2007, 12:03
ultra lite poncho/tarp will give u a shelter, rain gear, pack rain cover, and wind breaker.

Lyle
07-12-2007, 12:48
As others have said, bring your own shelter. It's not just the thru hikers who fill up the shelters, so being ahead of that group doesn't assure shelter space.
Often times it weekend groups of locals or section hikers who will fill a shelter, and they will be out there the entire summer.

twosticks
07-12-2007, 13:23
I know it would be a silly venture, but has anyone been successful in doing that? Going from shelter to shelter and not carrying their own tent?

Marta
07-12-2007, 13:35
I know it would be a silly venture, but has anyone been successful in doing that? Going from shelter to shelter and not carrying their own tent?

As far as I know only late-season SOBOs can get away with it. (After Labor Day, I never failed to get shelter space, but I carried a tarp or tent the whole rest of the trip.)

Seriously, when bad weather is threatening, some NOBOs in the spring pack will stop hiking around lunch time to get a shelter space. Especially if you're planning a fast hike, it wouldn't be worth it to handicap yourself that way. Really fast hikers, like Brian Robinson, almost always tarp so they can set up when and where they feel like it, instead of basing their hiking plan on the spacing of shelters.

Yeah, you can usually wheedle your way into a shelter by making some better-prepared hiker move out into his/her tent, but that's really bad form.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Creek Dancer
07-12-2007, 13:42
I don't know if anyone has been successful, but on three separate occassions, I have seen thru-hikers show up at a full shelter without a tent and ask other people who are not thru-hikers to move to a tent. Very nervy IMO.

Mags
07-12-2007, 13:55
I know it would be a silly venture, but has anyone been successful in doing that? Going from shelter to shelter and not carrying their own tent?

Every year people do it.
I knew of people in 1998 and 1999 who directly did that; I have heard anecdoatal evidence from other years.

I guess they are successful in the sense they hiked the AT. Unsuccessful in the sense they will be in for a rude awakening if they venture off the AT and its shelter system.

Truly going lightweight does not mean you count on space in a lean-to. Carrying shelter of some sort is just prudent and makes sure you do not impose on others.

( I realize Two sticks is not advocating going sans shelter, just getting on my soapbox again. ;) )

DavidNH
07-12-2007, 14:35
couloir99,

If as you say you are starting in March, even early March in 2008.. the shelters in Georgia will be filled to capacity. So many damn people hike the trail in Georgia during thru hiker season.

YES you MUST bring some sort of portable shelter. 1) It will give you freedom to camp where you want and 2) you may not find space in the shelters. Saving weight is one thing.. saveing weight by leaving behind a necessity like shelter is just nuts.

David

Alligator
07-12-2007, 15:27
...
So many damn people hike the trail in Georgia during thru hiker season.
...DavidBuncha damn thruhikers, what's with those people anyway:confused: .

Yes bring a shelter. It may sound like uncommon sense but it really isn't.

Appalachian Tater
07-12-2007, 16:04
I don't know if anyone has been successful, but on three separate occassions, I have seen thru-hikers show up at a full shelter without a tent and ask other people who are not thru-hikers to move to a tent. Very nervy IMO.

Did people abandon the shelter for them?

Creek Dancer
07-12-2007, 16:09
On one occassion, yes, other backpackers yielded to them.

UCONNMike
07-12-2007, 16:42
I know it would be a silly venture, but has anyone been successful in doing that? Going from shelter to shelter and not carrying their own tent?

I ditched my shelter in PA around the middle of August durign my SOBO hike in 2005, and prior to that I used it maybe 6 times, and that was just to get away from the bugs

Egads
07-12-2007, 18:13
What everyone else said, bring a shelter

Egads

Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-12-2007, 18:46
Another vote for carrying some sort of personal shelter. You may want to plan on using your shelter frequently so you can make more miles since your plan is to finish in under four months.

couloir99
07-12-2007, 19:07
Thanks for all the replies. It definitely solidifies my position to bring a tarp of some sort. I was just curious if anyone had tried going shelter to shelter. But I'll play it safe and pack a couple extra pounds. Thanks.

Skidsteer
07-12-2007, 19:12
I don't know if anyone has been successful, but on three separate occassions, I have seen thru-hikers show up at a full shelter without a tent and ask other people who are not thru-hikers to move to a tent. Very nervy IMO.


Did people abandon the shelter for them?


On one occassion, yes, other backpackers yielded to them.

That might be the only reason I'd ever stay in another shelter: Just for the satisfaction of saying no to jerks like that and offer to rent them a tent.

Doctari
07-12-2007, 20:30
Can you? Yes.

But it would be totally irresponsible to do so. If I'm in a shelter, all nice & cozy, & someone wants me to leave cause he/she felt a personal shelter was not needed, I DO NOT leave. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part!!! Yes, I have done this.

Granted, I no longer stay in shelters, but I'm not the only one out there that feels that way. In a true emergency, sure, but just cause you are a moron, sorry.


Doctari.

hopefulhiker
07-12-2007, 20:49
A tarp or tent can offer many advantages too, Snoring free, more space and other benefits..

Appalachian Tater
07-12-2007, 20:51
ultra lite poncho/tarp will give u a shelter, rain gear, pack rain cover, and wind breaker.

Culoir99, that would probably be the best advice for you.

Lone Wolf
07-12-2007, 21:32
shelters suck majorly. did i ever mention that?:cool:

The Mayor
09-07-2007, 11:41
I know it would be a silly venture, but has anyone been successful in doing that? Going from shelter to shelter and not carrying their own tent?

I've done it many times, but always for short section hikes, and usually in the off season. I'll go out 3-5 days and I've never had a problem. Sure I've been rained on and spelt in some crowded shelters, but that's going to happen.

I'm definitely bringing a tent to thru hike next year. There are many times when I hike without a tent that I find find myself stopping early at a shelter only because the next shelter is 10+ miles away.

Cannibal
09-07-2007, 11:54
Carry a hammock for a shelter. That way you can make yourself a nice comfy place to sit and enjoy the views wherever you find them. Beats sittin on a rock or trying to sleep in a shelter.

Suzzz
09-07-2007, 16:25
I've read a few threads concerning access to shelters & lean-tos. Am I understanding this right? They're mean to be used by thru-hikers in priority and section hikers can use them IF there's space left? Is that just some people's interpretation or it is an actual fact?

I was under the understanding

Suzzz
09-07-2007, 16:27
Sorry, I pressed send too early in my last post.

So as I was saying, I was under the understanding that the shelters were available to ALL the users of the AT on a first come first serve basis. That being said, I have no intention of going on a hike without a tent/tarp.

hiker5
09-07-2007, 16:33
First come first serve.

Cannibal
09-07-2007, 16:38
Thru hikers didn't exist when they built the shelter system; they didn't think anybody could thru hike it back then.

warraghiyagey
09-07-2007, 16:46
Bring a tent. You'll need it eventually. Learn to enjoy it. Trust me, it's more comfortabel than any shelter. You don't have to worry about if the shelter is full. More importantly, you don't have to be a slave to shelter milage. There are so many places in between that you will wish to stop for for the night. With a tent you can.
For less than two pounds - a tent is a necessity.

Appalachian Tater
09-07-2007, 16:48
I've read a few threads concerning access to shelters & lean-tos. Am I understanding this right? They're mean to be used by thru-hikers in priority and section hikers can use them IF there's space left? Is that just some people's interpretation or it is an actual fact?

I was under the understanding

Where did you see that?

There is one campground at Baxter reserved for long-distance hikers, "The Birches". In the Smokies where reservations are required for shelters and a couple of spots are left open for long-distance hikers, it's still first-come, first-served for those spots. In the Whites, long-distance hikers are sometimes allowed to work-for-stay in the huts.

Othewise, there are no special rules regarding long-distance hikers. It is first-come, first-served without qualification everywhere else.

So really, the only thing special a long-distance hiker gets is an obligation to set a good example in leave-no-trace ethics and a slice of pizza in Hanover.

warraghiyagey
09-07-2007, 17:09
Sorry, I pressed send too early in my last post.

So as I was saying, I was under the understanding that the shelters were available to ALL the users of the AT on a first come first serve basis. That being said, I have no intention of going on a hike without a tent/tarp.

Hey Suzz, maybe you've heard that larger groups that hike the AT, Scouts, college groups, and other large group programs are told to bring their own shelters as the shelters are meant for AT hikers. These groups almost always abide by this unless the shelter is empty at dark. It is an unspken rule but you can count on its effect about 98% of the time.

Tater, that pizza is rather forgettable - sorry if it's you're favorite. At least it's free and the owner is a great guy.:)

Appalachian Tater
09-07-2007, 17:17
Tater, that pizza is rather forgettable - sorry if it's you're favorite. At least it's free and the owner is a great guy.:)

I had some pretty good Indian food in Hanover instead, at the Indian restaurant in a house over near the public library. Never tried the pizza, but I was trying to think of some special privilege to which thru-hikers are entitled!

warraghiyagey
09-07-2007, 17:24
I had some pretty good Indian food in Hanover instead, at the Indian restaurant in a house over near the public library. Never tried the pizza, but I was trying to think of some special privilege to which thru-hikers are entitled!

How about the free rub down on Spaulding Mountain.:)
My favorites were the free pepsi at the stream crossing at Rangeley.
Or that somewhere in Hanove a frat or sorority will let you tent behind their house.

Appalachian Tater
09-07-2007, 17:30
How about the free rub down on Spaulding Mountain.:)
My favorites were the free pepsi at the stream crossing at Rangeley.
Or that somewhere in Hanove a frat or sorority will let you tent behind their house.

Don't section hikers get these "privileges" as well?

warraghiyagey
09-07-2007, 18:38
Don't section hikers get these "privileges" as well?

Depends on accumulated facial hair/odor.:D

TinAbbey
09-07-2007, 18:41
i could have slept in a shelter every nite on the trail. not that i did. it just worked out that way. there was always shelter space. i was early in the season.

superman
09-07-2007, 19:06
I hiked with a couple different people who hiked with out a shelter. One bought a $20 wal-mart tent when he got to New England. The other one got caught sleeping without a shelter when it rained. Another hiker let her share his tent. The next day hours were passed trying to determine if he could put a notch on his bed post since he slept with her but nothing else happened.:-?

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 19:12
My reasons for choosing a personal shelter over the AT shelters:

1. Sleeping in the great outdoors includes getting fresh air - not much available when you share a shelter.

2. Mice live in the shelter with a primary goal of stealing food and p**ping in the shelter.

3. Hikers settle in and rise at different times, so you will be awake with the latest to bed and earliest to rise.

4. Privacy is an issue.

5. I prefer to snore alone rather than in symphony.

6. Hikers in general are very friendly and easy to get along with. Where do you go if you are sharing a shelter with the few who aren't?

7. I only carry enough Scotch for my needs. There I said it, I never learned to share as a kid. Actually, my brother and I do share, that is how he got the name "Bartender".

It all comes down to having options. If you do not carry a shelter, you have one less option.

Suzzz
09-07-2007, 19:34
I didn't actually read that the shelters were for thru-hikers only. However, the way some messages are written it gives the impression that they are. I was just curious and wanted to clarify. Again, I have no intention of leaving home without my tent. Mainly because I don't want to have to sleep outside and I want the convenience of stopping anywhere on the trail.

SGT Rock
09-07-2007, 20:28
Shelters suck. Bring one yourself.

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 20:35
Shelters suck. Bring one yourself.

You speakith with a L. Wolf tongue.

SGT Rock
09-07-2007, 20:41
Naw, I cam to the conclusion on my own. But I think he is with me - or I with him on this since he has been doing it longer.

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 20:56
Naw, I cam to the conclusion on my own. But I think he is with me - or I with him on this since he has been doing it longer.

I am sure you did and I became a believer after experiencing AT shelter life in person. The shelters are a good place to get out of the weather for a spell, prepare a meal or meet some interesting people. I just don't care to sleep in them anymore.

SGT Rock
09-07-2007, 21:01
I am sure you did and I became a believer after experiencing AT shelter life in person. The shelters are a good place to get out of the weather for a spell, prepare a meal or meet some interesting people. I just don't care to sleep in them anymore.
In a way I suppose shelters are like Backpacker Magazine. At first you think they are all cool - that it is great someone went to all this trouble to make one for you to stay at (or a magazine that specializes in backpacking). Then you start to realize you are never totally comfortable in one, the mice suck, you have to deal with people you don't want to deal with, sometimes the mileage between them ain't right for you, sometimes they are in lousy places compared to campsites, sometimes there isn't space, etc etc etc. Eventually you come to the conclusion they are not worth the inconveniences when you could stay ANYWHERE on the trail you dang well want to stay. Eventually you outgrow the desire for one.

Then a pound and a half for a hammock sounds like a good idea.

emerald
09-07-2007, 21:18
Never tried the pizza, but I was trying to think of some special privilege to which thru-hikers are entitled!

I never tried pizza either. I pretty much stick with monocots and legumes. Keeps the pack weight down, you know.;)

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 21:19
In a way I suppose shelters are like Backpacker Magazine. At first you think they are all cool - that it is great someone went to all this trouble to make one for you to stay at (or a magazine that specializes in backpacking). Then you start to realize you are never totally comfortable in one, the mice suck, you have to deal with people you don't want to deal with, sometimes the mileage between them ain't right for you, sometimes they are in lousy places compared to campsites, sometimes there isn't space, etc etc etc. Eventually you come to the conclusion they are not worth the inconveniences when you could stay ANYWHERE on the trail you dang well want to stay. Eventually you outgrow the desire for one.

Then a pound and a half for a hammock sounds like a good idea.

Yup. You had me there, right up until the hammock bit. Hammocks s*ck. LOL. Sorry, I never tried a hammock, so I can't really say. I like my tent. It is easier to share with my brother than a hammock.

emerald
09-07-2007, 21:24
Shelters suck. Bring one yourself.

I prefer shelters in winter. When it's hot, I like to sleep along creek bottoms, but that's getting harder to do.

Pennsylvania Game Commission doesn't allow camping there. They want A.T. hikers to camp 500 feet from water sources. I always drink my water straight and I don't like floaties, so must I admit their idea is good.

They don't permit oxen on the A.T. where it crosses State Game Lands. I'm thinking I might give up hiking altogether and quit posting too.

SGT Rock
09-07-2007, 21:31
I prefer shelters in winter. When it's hot, I like to sleep along creek bottoms, but that's getting harder to do.

The Pennsylvania Game Commission doesn't think that's a good idea. They want people to camp 500 feet from water sources. I must admit, I always drink my water straight and I don't like floaties either.
The last time I slept in a shelter was winter. Hiked to Derrick Knob in the Smokies and followed the rules. Though we had a fire to help keep warm - the lack of a good comfortable night's sleep was a PITA. I would rather have slept outside in my hammock.

As to not liking hamocks - I understand that. To each his own. Leaves more trees for me and my kind ;)

shelterbuilder
09-07-2007, 22:14
I didn't actually read that the shelters were for thru-hikers only. However, the way some messages are written it gives the impression that they are. I was just curious and wanted to clarify. Again, I have no intention of leaving home without my tent. Mainly because I don't want to have to sleep outside and I want the convenience of stopping anywhere on the trail.

Suzzz, the shelters are for everyone on a first-come, first-serve basis. The unwritten rule is that, when the weather is bad, there is ALWAYS room for one more hiker. While the thru-hikers are the most colorful and sometimes the most visible user-group, there are church groups, scout groups, college buddies, large groups, small groups, and individuals - and the shelters are for these folks, too.

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 22:19
Suzzz, the shelters are for everyone on a first-come, first-serve basis. The unwritten rule is that, when the weather is bad, there is ALWAYS room for one more hiker. While the thru-hikers are the most colorful and sometimes the most visible user-group, there are church groups, scout groups, college buddies, large groups, small groups, and individuals - and the shelters are for these folks, too.

The shelters are also for a large group of whinning high schoolers who start with "thou shall not invade" and apologize after the invasion has pushed you out of the shelter ("make room, three more coming in") into the pouring, freezing rain with no place to set up a tent. The adventure ended a day early, but we still had fun.

shelterbuilder
09-07-2007, 22:26
The shelters are also for a large group of whinning high schoolers who start with "thou shall not invade" and apologize after the invasion has pushed you out of the shelter ("make room, three more coming in") into the pouring, freezing rain with no place to set up a tent. The adventure ended a day early, but we still had fun.

My God, I think I met the same whinning high schoolers once, down here in Pa. Maybe that's why all of the newer shelters are so big.:D

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 22:35
My God, I think I met the same whinning high schoolers once, down here in Pa. Maybe that's why all of the newer shelters are so big.:D

No shelter is big enough for this group and us. :D It was raining hard, it was a tough Moousilauke climb, it was cold - so what? We licked the mountain in spite of the elements. We just did not care for the whinning, human elements.

hopefulhiker
09-07-2007, 22:43
Another way of interpreting this question is how far should you camp off the trail? To stealth camp should one camp right off the trail or blaze a little place somewhere out of sight?

Tin Man
09-07-2007, 22:51
I like to get out of sight. In areas where stealth is legal, you need to be 200 feet off the trail and in areas where stealth is illegal, why invite discovery? Being out of sight also helps the wildnerness experience, especially in the morning when you are trying to determine where the heck the trail is. :D Although a tent set up right next to the trail after sunset with the intent of breaking camp at first light is also stealthy. ;)

emerald
09-07-2007, 22:59
The last time I slept in a shelter was winter.

It's just out of habit. They remind me of barns.;)

SGT Rock
09-07-2007, 23:00
Don't forget that in some places if you stay in a tent because the shelter is full - the tent (or hammock) is supposed to be in sight of the shelter.



Reservations are required because of the high demand
for the limited space available.

The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons
qualifying as thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by
definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is
using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park
and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles
outside the park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside
shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied.
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/07%20Compendium.pdf page 13

emerald
09-07-2007, 23:16
In areas where stealth is legal, you need to be 200 feet off the trail ... Being out of sight also helps the wilderness experience, especially in the morning when you are trying to determine where the heck the trail is. :D

Pennsylvania Game Commission and the PA code (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=348003#post348003) which pertains to it have different expectations. Thou shalt not camp more than 200 feet from the A.T. on SGLs and then only when thru-hiking the A.T. Camping on SGLs is otherwise prohibited.

That means, I presume, it's perfectly acceptible to camp right smack dab in the middle of the A.T. on SGLs, which is contrary to LNT, isn't it? I recently came across a fire ring in the middle of the A.T. in the middle of the afternoon with coals warm to the touch. Maybe it was better not 200 feet off the A.T. in the leaf litter?

I'm sure had I put some dry tinder on it and blown, I could have burned a significant number of acres and in the process denied PCG of revenue needed to look after the A.T. corridor. Please don't burn down Penn's Woods, okay?:cool:

Tennessee Viking
09-08-2007, 00:22
I'm planning a thru-hike in 2008. I plan on starting early (beginning of March). I am curious what crowds will be like at the shelters. Should i still plan on bringing a tent/tarp? I plan on hiking/running it fairly fast (less than 4 months), and am thinking I might be able to find a shelter each night, which would save me some weight and help with keeping a small load. Any insight would be much appreciated.You will be hiking with the main pack. So it is likely you will be calling shotgun. And spring times is usually when scout and school groups start hiking the trail as well. When kids hit the trail bring yourself a tent whenever you get to the more popular sections of trail.

Tennessee Viking
09-08-2007, 00:27
From the thru hikers I ran into, they usually plan to hit the Smokies before the first heavy snow, or as soon as the snow/ice melt. In TN, I usually see sectioners/early birds in Jan/Feb, March I see the first set of thrus, then April is the main pack.

Tin Man
09-08-2007, 07:36
Regulations vary by state and by section of the trail. Study the regs and use some common sense and you will be okay.

shelterbuilder
09-08-2007, 18:12
I like to get out of sight. In areas where stealth is legal, you need to be 200 feet off the trail and in areas where stealth is illegal, why invite discovery? Being out of sight also helps the wildnerness experience, especially in the morning when you are trying to determine where the heck the trail is. :D Although a tent set up right next to the trail after sunset with the intent of breaking camp at first light is also stealthy. ;)

In Pa., ON STATE GAME LANDS, primitive one-night camping is permitted only within 200 feet of the footpath. Since the AT crosses State Game, State Park, and State Forest land - as well as federal land - you almost need a scorecard to tell the players! Or a really good map....

Shutterbug
09-08-2007, 18:37
Another way of interpreting this question is how far should you camp off the trail? To stealth camp should one camp right off the trail or blaze a little place somewhere out of sight?

If you intend to build a fire, you should camp where there is already a fire ring. If not, hang your hammock anywhere you want. Hammocks leave no trace.

Tin Man
09-08-2007, 21:29
you almost need a scorecard to tell the players! Or a really good map....

Quite correct. Too many states/parks/organizations with different regs for different situations/concerns.

saimyoji
09-08-2007, 23:19
In Pa., ON STATE GAME LANDS, primitive one-night camping is permitted only within 200 feet of the footpath. Since the AT crosses State Game, State Park, and State Forest land - as well as federal land - you almost need a scorecard to tell the players! Or a really good map....


But NOT within 500ft of a stream, spring or other water source. I was just up on the Pinnacle today and some of the signs actually had this part circled to obviate the point.

Of

saimyoji
09-08-2007, 23:22
OOPS clicked accidentally.......

..OF course, there were still obvious signs of violations of these rules...I even saw a group of hikers bathing in a spring......WITH THEIR DOG. :mad:

THey were all smaller than me so I kicked their asses, skinned, BBQed and ate the dog, and purified the spring. :)

aaroniguana
09-09-2007, 10:47
As long as you cooked the dog in a fire ring...

shelterbuilder
09-09-2007, 11:29
As long as you cooked the dog in a fire ring...

...and as long as the danger of wildfire wasn't "High, Very High, or Extreme", as defined by the Bureau of Forestry!;)

emerald
09-09-2007, 11:50
I've more than once determined to look for a link to DCNR's current fire index ratings. This would be a desirable link to post here or on BMECC's website where it can be easily found by those responsible for knowing it.

Can someone link this information? DCNR should have it right on their front page (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/) or linked directly from it. Seems to me they have a responsibility to make this information more accessible if they want to hold people accountable for knowing it and acting accordingly.

Here's the exact words cut and pasted from a Pennsylvania Game Commission document I linked elsewhere concerning fires:


Small open fires for cooking or warming purposes are permitted, except when the Fire Index Rating used by the Bureau of Forestry, DCNR, is high, very high or extreme. Fires must be contained and attended to at all times.

oldfivetango
09-09-2007, 12:15
ALWAYS carry some sort of shelter. NEVER count on shelter space

Uh,LW,you forgot to mention that he should burn the shelter
anyway.:D
Oldfivetango

The Old Fhart
09-09-2007, 12:36
Shades Of Gray-"Pennsylvania Game Commission and the PA code which pertains to it have different expectations. Thou shalt not camp more than 200 feet from the A.T. on SGLs and then only when thru-hiking the A.T. Camping on SGLs is otherwise prohibited."
Here is a photo of one of the signs I found in PA around the State Game Land borders. This sign (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=2320&catid=member&imageuser=1531) makes it perfectly clear, doesn't it? :-?

emerald
09-09-2007, 12:42
Can someone link this information?


I just spent about a 1/2 hour trying to locate it without success and emailed a link to my earlier post to someone who may be able to help us find it or make that information available online.

Anyone headed toward the PA 501 trailhead will see the fire index rating posted at the top of a rise north of Bethel. The information exists, how to make this information more accessible to the public is another matter that should be addressed by DCNR IMO.

emerald
09-09-2007, 13:01
Here is a photo of one of the signs I found in PA around the State Game Land borders. This sign (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=2320&catid=member&imageuser=1531) makes it perfectly clear, doesn't it? :-?

I've mentioned to a number of trail club friends that a Pennsylvania A.T. sign gallery would be a valuable educational tool. It could be a single page linked directly from A.T. maintaining club homepages or an article here which points out the many things unique to the Pennsylvania A.T. or may be unexpected by those who hike it.

There are at least some who realize more should be done to make this information more readily available. Of course, hikers need to take the time to learn the rules and respect them if they are to accomplish their intended purpose.

shelterbuilder
09-09-2007, 16:59
I've mentioned to a number of trail club friends that a Pennsylvania A.T. sign gallery would be a valuable educational tool. It could be a single page linked directly from A.T. maintaining club homepages or an article here which points out the many things unique to the Pennsylvania A.T. or may be unexpected by those who hike it.

There are at least some who realize more should be done to make this information more readily available. Of course, hikers need to take the time to learn the rules and respect them if they are to accomplish their intended purpose.

SOG, I just copied your post to BMECC's webmaster - at least I think I got it sent correctly (I'm just barely computer-literate:o ) - so we'll see what happens. I agree that a page or link for all of these signs and regs would be helpful, but we can't count on the state to do it - we hikers have to take care of our own!:D

emerald
09-09-2007, 19:34
I've more than once determined to look for a link to DCNR's current fire index ratings. This would be a desirable link to post here or on BMECC's website where it can be easily found by those responsible for knowing it.

Can someone link this information? DCNR should have it right on their front page (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/) or linked directly from it.

PGC's preoccupation with wildlife:rolleyes: and apathy toward draft animals:( combined with my farsightedness may have hidden what was right in my face from view.:o

Now wearing glasses with my brain more engaged, I can click on my link above, click County Burn Bans in the box on the right-hand side and convince myself it's to what PGC refers.

I'm not certain I have the final answer, but I may be getting warm.;)

shelterbuilder
09-09-2007, 20:18
PGC's preoccupation with wildlife and apathy toward draft animals combined with my farsightedness may have hidden what was right in my face from view.

Now wearing glasses with my brain more engaged, I can click on my link above, click County Burn Bans in the box on the right-hand side and convince myself it's to what PGC refers.

I'm not certain I have the final answer, but I may be getting warm.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that you're going to find the wildfire index anywhere on the DCNR website. I just finished going through 300 documents on that site, and not one mentioned the index.:(

The next time you're in Cressona, stop at the District Forester's office and talk to them. Or stop at the Rt. 501 shelter and talk to Ron. Or the guy that has the sign along Rt. 501 in Bethel.

emerald
09-09-2007, 20:34
I emailed someone who I believe to be on vacation.

I wonder if the answer is found by asking who decides upon a county-wide ban and how the index relates to this? Maybe fires on the "A.T. corridor" are restricted on a county-wise basis, rather than based upon decisions by each individual management unit?

When I last spoke with the aforementioned person who may or may not be on vacation, he mentioned other times based not upon the index but rather the calendar when fires are not permitted on BOF-administered units.

sb, perhaps our conversation on this subject should move off-board until we have better information and can post it.

emerald
09-10-2007, 01:37
When I last spoke with the aforementioned person who may or may not be on vacation right now, he mentioned other times based not upon the index but rather the calendar when fires are not permitted on BOF-administered units. The times he mentioned surprised me.

When browsing SATC's content-rich website yesterday, I found the dates to which I referred above mentioned at least once. Go here (http://www.satc-hike.org/update.html) for times in the fall and spring when snow is not normally on the ground and when burning -- read campfires -- are prohibited at least on units administered by DCNR Bureau of Forestry.

I'll attempt to locate and link this information which is no doubt somewhere on DCNR's website later today.

Twofiddy
09-17-2007, 10:58
I'm planning a thru-hike in 2008. I plan on starting early (beginning of March). I am curious what crowds will be like at the shelters. Should i still plan on bringing a tent/tarp? I plan on hiking/running it fairly fast (less than 4 months), and am thinking I might be able to find a shelter each night, which would save me some weight and help with keeping a small load. Any insight would be much appreciated.


Like some others have already said, you must bring a shelter!!
A LOW GAP, 1 or 2 shelters north of Neals Gap, when I hiked through on March 19th or 20th there was abour 45 hikers already in, on, under, and around the shelter at about 7PM. I hiked another mile or two to a camp site on the boulevard. It downpoured that night like I have never seen. The boulevard became a brook, then a stream, then a river. I'm glad then that I had a tent with a floor.

Eventually I ditched the tent for a versital setup that included a sil nylon tarp, seperate bug protection, and a ground sheet of tyvek. If I was starting a thru-hike tommorrow and tomorrow was March 1 08. I'd probably start carrying an MSR HUBBA. 150 Miles in after the undetermined drop off the trail, I'd switch to a tarp, and then pick up bug netting in Virginia. However given the weight changes that are going to take place to the HUBBA series with the new fabrics in 08 it looks like it is going to be a tad bit lighter, making it an even better shelter to carry the whole way.

If you dont want to purchase a $300 tent, just start with the one that you have, and purchase a good sil nylon tarp made by ETOWAH OUTFITTERS before you start hiking. When you are ready to ditch the tent, just get your tarp mailed to you. Carrying 13oz vs 4 lbs sure makes a difference.

Sloth
09-17-2007, 14:04
I like staying in my own tent. I'm sure everyone will thank me cause i snore like a grizzly bear! I was looking at the big agnus seedhouse tent, looks great for laying under the stars but can the rainfly keep out the high winds in 40 degree temps? tarp tents look like great tents for spring thru fall too. i'm just worried i'm not going to be able to block out the wind and cold in early march with one.

dessertrat
09-17-2007, 15:43
On one occassion, yes, other backpackers yielded to them.

I would probably yield too, if I had a tent with me. I know they are dumb for not having a tent, but I am not going to decide that someone should be without shelter for being dumb; I would move to my tent to let the tentless dummy have shelter.

Appalachian Tater
09-17-2007, 16:36
I would probably yield too, if I had a tent with me. I know they are dumb for not having a tent, but I am not going to decide that someone should be without shelter for being dumb; I would move to my tent to let the tentless dummy have shelter.

Great, then they will be able to reproduce and have dummy children. Better to let nature take its course.

Kirby
09-18-2007, 20:27
I have found I sleep great in shelters when I am very tired, even when there are mice everywhere. I sleep well in my tent to though, but the key for me is that I need to be very tired, and when I am I fall asleep quite fast.

Kirby

WILKEBEAST
09-25-2007, 07:09
im not sure if any one mentioned this or not...only read a couple pages of the posts...but in new york/new jersey area there are very few shelters.

also if its raining out don't we all make room? and if the weather is nice he can cowboy it.

that being said i always had a shelter with me.