View Full Version : Stove Choice
At the recent ALDHA Gathering in Hanover, NH, an overwhelming number of recent Thru-Hikers voiced a preference for Alcohol Fueled Stoves for backpacking.
Is there another point of view?
I have heard that some use wood fuel.
I have heard that more use white gas as fuel.
Some prefer Butane.
Is this merely a personal preference decision or is there really a better way?
What do you think?
Skylander Jack
Skylander,
I remember you bringing up the stove issue in the class of 03' and 04' meeting about thru-hiking.
The majority of hikers are using alcohol stoves now and to be honest I don't see why you wouldn't use one. The only draw back is the lack of power. If you're someone who needs their dinner cooked in 3 minutes than go with a whisper lite or canister stove. Otherwise I dont see why you wouldnt use an alcohol stove.
They weigh nothing, are very easy to use, no moving parts, just light. You have to be a bit patient but I never went hungry. Sometimes it'll take 8 or 10 minutes to prepare a meal but thats no biggy. They cost nothing and mine went the whole way. They;re also fun to make.
If you wanna carry an extra pound or more for no reason and pay 70 dollars, be my guest. If you wanna deal with a clogged jet or a broken piece be my guest. Otherwise look into alcohol stoves. The fuel is everywhere!
A-Train
If you want a very well made alcohol stove and sweet potsupport\windscreen, pick one up off ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16036&item=3631723992
Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013
Kerosene
10-16-2003, 18:00
I use a lightweight (3 oz.) Snow Peak GigaPower canister stove for my week-long section hikes that works well for me. The weight of the fuel/canister/stove compares very favorably to alcohol stoves over that period of time. Click here (http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles.asp?subcat=2&cid=57) for a good thru-hiker.com test.
That said, if I was thru-hiking I would probably switch to alcohol since it is easier to obtain fuel and you don't have to guess at how much fuel remains in the canister and deal with having to correctly dispose of empties.
I remember you as well, A-Train, and as I mentioned in my query, I said that the 2003 Thru-Hikers were almost unanimous in their preference for Alcohol -- Fuel, I mean.
My inquiry was made to obtain a variety of opinions from the hiking community.
I have heard recently that some prefer a small wood burning stove for backpacking. Others prefer Butane (as do I when possible, though I do not believe it is practical on the AT or on Long Distance hikes).
When I visited Campmor the salesperson dissuaded me from purchasing a Svea or a Coleman Peak stove but steered me to a Simmerlite which uses white gas for fuel.
You mentioned that Alcohol takes longer to heat than white gas. In the evening this may not be crucial but in the morning when that first cup of tea or coffee is needed it would be comforting to know that the stove will function efficiently and quickly.
The other aspect of my inquiry comes from my unfamiliarity with using alcohol stoves. I understand that they can be made from using beer cans or Pepsi cans or even purchased ready made but I am not sure how they work, whereas I have used white gas for decades.
The purpose of my inquiry is to allow discussion of a variety of fuel source uses on the AT.
I am glad that you have a preference. Now, if there are others who have different preferences I am ready to hear your side.
Thanks,
Personally, I use an alcohol stove and like it very much. Just the bottom inch or two of a beer can. Very simple.
However, you wanted another point of view. Let's say you are going to get an early jump on a thru hike and are leaving Feb 1. It is probably going to be bastard cold and you might have to melt snow for water in places. Alcohol stoves rely on the alcohol evaporating and the gas burning. When it is really cold out, they really suck (so do cannister stoves). What you want is a white gas stove. Not only does it throw out a ton of BTUs, making melting snow and cooking in the cold, but they work well in the cold. But, you don't want something that is hard to fix. So, buy yourself a Whisperlite or an XGK. Sure, you are going to be hauling around at least an extra pound of metal, but you've got a solid stove that you can use in all climates. When it warms up, maybe you'll just tuck the stove into a bounce box until you reach New Hampshire and cold weather again, opting for an alcohol stove in the warmer months.
Suppose, additionally, that you want to buy a 1-stove-does-it-all (ignore, for the moment, that alcohol stoves are free) model. You might decide to hike in Chile or Nepal or somewhere other than North America or Europe. You'll need to be able to burn really dirty kerosene, which is widely available. The XGK or the Whisperlite International will do so with a simple jet change and maybe adding a filter.
Conclusion? Still carry an alcohol stove. Otherwise, go with an XGK or Whisterlite International. Besides, I get a big kick when new users over prime them and almost burn their tents down/
Blue Jay
10-17-2003, 07:54
No gas stove on the market today is "an extra pound of metal". They do weigh more than a beer can, yes, but it's not a pound. I have used various alcohol and gas stoves. The advantages of alcohol have been stated well by Chris. There are some disadvantages. If you have a universal gas stove, it will burn car gas. This is easier to find than alcohol, not a lot, but I have never had a problem finding this in any state of the AT. Alcohol sometimes has to come from a store that is far from the trail. Alcohol has a more inconsistant flash point depending upon how much water it contains. Add to that the fact that the flame is invisible and you have many hikers without eyebrows. Alcohol fans will deny that but I have seen it many times. I'm not saying to not use alcohol, if you are go lite it is almost a religious requirement. I have also used an army surplus wood burner. I like it, but that is very heavy.
Old School (pre-shaker jet) Whisperlite: 11.1 oz.
22 oz. Fuel bottle: 8 oz.
Stove repair kit with windscreen: 3.5 oz
Okay, so I lied about the pound of metal for a stove. I'm short 4.9 oz, but it is hard to run the stove without the fuel bottle, and the repair kit is a good thing to have.
smokymtnsteve
10-17-2003, 10:20
the repair kit is a must thing to have ..along with a fuel bottle!
Pedestrian
10-17-2003, 10:51
Hey Chris,
Use that 4.9ozs. to carry an alcohol stove and enough fuel for a couple of burns. That way when that wisperlight fails, you can go ahead and cook while you repair that thing.
Keep it simple friends. Don't buy something that they strongly recommend a repair kit for. That only means it's going to fail at the worst possible time.
As for starting in January, Georgia only gets about 3-4 snow storms or ice storms a year. Sure you can expect a few storms but I doubt you will have to melt snow. The springs don’t freeze up to were you cannot get to the water.
Cold weather tips for alcohol stoves:
Keep you fuel and stove inside your tent at night. Denatured alcohol has a very low freezing temperature so it will not freeze but at colder temperatures it does not evaporate as quickly. Keep it as warm as possible. On cold nights I keep mine in my sleeping bag wrapped in my fleece jacket that I use as a pillow.
If your fuel is too cold to evaporate and wont light, do one of these two things:
Heat the underside of your stove (filled with fuel) with a lighter and then set it down and light the stove.
Spill a small amount of fuel on a rock or on your reflector pan. Light the spilled fuel (it evaporates quicker because of the thinner surface area of the spilled fuel) and set your fill stove onto the fuel. It will light from the burning fuel.
Practice with it. Put your stove and fuel in the freezer at home. Take it out and try different things to get it to light. Find what works for you.
I believe an alcohol stove is the way to go. I gave Hepcat one at Low gap shelter in Georgia and he completed the rest of his hike with it. I gladly mailed home his wisperlight.
As I, apparently unsuccessfully, tried to indicate in my post, I use an alcohol stove now. The Whisperlite hasn't seen action for a while. The repair kit is a good idea. It is hard to know when an O-ring will fail or a spring will have to be replaced. Or when you might have to field strip and clean the stove. Alcohol stoves don't break; unless you step on them, that is.
I've had to melt snow in the Smokys in February and it hadn't snowed all that recently. Just remnants of previous storms.
chknfngrs
10-17-2003, 11:23
I keep Coleman in business and rock the dual fuel stove. I simply don't get to hike enough to worry about it. I have had 2 dual fuel and one Whisperlite. All great stoves.
Pedestrian
10-17-2003, 11:36
I'm sorry Chris. My post was written poorly.
I was agreeing with you on the most part.
The melting the snow thing was the first I have heard of anyone having to do on an AT thru-hike.
Your tips for alcohol stoves in the cold are good ones. I tend to put my fuel bottle in my sleeping bag with me when the temps will get below freezing. Things are good to go in the morning, but in the evening cooking can be a bit tough if it is really chilly out. Most of my winter hiking is in the Smokys. It gets cold and snowy up there. Also, beautful and devoid of tourists.
In terms of weight, I understand that the Alcohol Stove made by cutting a tin can (aluminum) can be very light compared to a manufactured stove such as the Simmerlite or other MSR or Coleman but is that the only weight difference? And does one-half pound matter that much in light of the fact that a white gas fuel is more efficient in lower temperatures?
Now the International MSR has the option of using multiple fuels and wouldn't that make it the more desireable stove to use since the availability of fuel would be greater?
Blue Jay
10-17-2003, 12:56
Give me a break. Hundreds of people have used Whisperlights for thousands of miles. If they broke often they would have been history long ago. I have over 6,000 mile on a Whisperlight, never had it fail (although this post is tempting fate). Replace the O Ring after a thru. You don't need a repair kit. You all most likely will look better without eyebrows anyway.
You'll probably find that methyl alcohol is just as (or more) common than white gas along the trail. Unless you really want to burn (cancer causing) diesel, an alcohol stove is probably going to be the most flexible. You don't want a whitegas stove that simmers. The additional machinery to make it simmer makes it more prone to breakage and harder to fix when it does break. This gets rid of the Simmerlite as a competitor.
Adding up the weights on my old Whisperlite for stove, fuel bottle, and repair kit, you get to 22.6 oz. My alcohol stove, pot stand, and windscreen (same as the MSR one) weighs 3 oz. Add a 1.5 oz soda bottle for a total weight of 4.5 oz for cooking. Ounce counters can drop this by a couple of oz. So, by switching to something you can make for free, you save approximately 18 oz. Now, the BTU output of whitegas is higher than that for alcohol. But, I don't think it will be high enough to overcome the weight disparity. That is, although fuel weight should be less, it won't be enough to make up the difference. I think SGT. Rock has a detailed study of this somewhere.
You probably won't feel the loss of 18 oz. on your back. But, if you combine the change in stove with a couple of other simple changes (headlamp, rain gear), you can lose 3-4 lbs pretty fast. That you will feel. Unless you are hauling 50 lbs, that is.
After posting the above, I saw Blue Jay's post and have a short comment. My Whisperlite breaks all the time, but it dates to around 1987. The beauty of the design is that I can fix it in the field right away with the repair kit. Of course, it really sucks to have to fix your stove after hiking 30 miles, when all you want to do is eat and sleep. You don't really need the whole thing, just a few pieces of it.
Pedestrian
10-17-2003, 13:48
JackW,
Check out SGT. Rock’s website for good comparisons of stoves.
http://hikinghq.net/stoves/stove_compare.html
He also has some very good designs.
Don’t get me wrong. The wisperlight is a good stove. I’ve had mine for years. It has needed repair several times, but I’ve not used it that much. The first time it broke down in the field is when I began looking for other types of stoves. I just believe, in most cases, in the most simple solution is the right one.
Denatured alcohol fuel is now available along the trail because it is used by so many hikers. Denatured alcohol is usually sold by the oz. at hostels and outfitters.
Plus the feeling of using something that you made yourself is quite gratifying.
Why not try making one before you buy something else? If you’re not comfortable with it then buy a stove.
Blue Jay,
The only time that I have come close to losing my eye brows is when I put too much fuel in the priming cup of the wisperlight. There’s no need to get personal when you loose an argument. Don’t go away mad, just go away.;)
Blue Jay
10-17-2003, 14:33
Argument?? Mad??? over stoves?? You need to read more than the last few entries. I already said I use alcohol stoves. Sheesh
smokymtnsteve
10-17-2003, 14:41
squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,s quawk
squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,s quawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,squawk,sq uawk,:banana :banana :banana
Lumberjack
10-17-2003, 20:04
I wont debate the merits - if ya want a simple and easy first stove get a round altiods can or simialer cut a layer of fiberglass to fit inside - done
Make an Altoid Stove with a tin and fiberglass? Now, where does one begin to understand what that is all about?
I have seen some "stoves" that were made by hikers and even after seeing them I cannot figure out how to make one.
Is there some manual or book or pamphlet which explains the process or is the way to learn simply a matter of finding someone who will show the process?
When I went to the Hennessy Hammock exhibit I was shown a prototype of a product which will be coming out in the near future. It was an Alcohol Stove with a warming cozy and some other gear.
But I am interested in finding out how to build one even though I am not sure that I would use one on my Thru-Hike in 2004.
I would like to test various stoves "in the field" this winter.
Streamweaver
10-17-2003, 20:40
Wings stove archives (http://wings.interfree.it/)
Wings has several alcohol and wood burning stove designs with instructions and pics. Most of these are very easy to make !!
Sgt Rocks Hiking HQ (http://www.Hikinghq.net) <<Sgt Rocks site also has excellent instructions as well as test results for alcohol stoves Streamweaver
Clicked on "Wings" but there was nothing on their site except for sponsors ads at the top.
worked Ok for me - scroll down and click on "Enter the Archive"
Be aware that if you are testing stoves inthe winter, different results might show up. Alcohol Stoves do not work as well in very cold (less than35deg) weather.
Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013
type 'pepsi can stoves' into a search engine and you'll find a variety of different stoves with instructions on making them.
At antigravitygear.com, you can purchase a stove, pot stand, pot and cozy at a very reasonable price. This is the Tin can stove man's website. He was one of the original builders of the pepsi can stove back in the '80's. Check it out.
tlbj6142
10-18-2003, 20:54
Switching gears a bit. Honestly, are canisters really that hard to find on the trail? Or does no one bother to look for them because alcohol stoves are so neat, cute, cheap and light?
You can easily get 10-14 days worth of meals from 1 canister. You ought to run by an outfitter every 2 weeks. Either that, or put one in your bounce box. Which gives you a month worth of on trail meals before you need to find another one.
Switching gears a bit again, someone recently mentioned that Primus canisters have more fuel in a lighter canister than the snowpeak/msr canisters. Is this true?
sdoownek
10-19-2003, 09:44
Originally posted by tlbj6142
Switching gears a bit again, someone recently mentioned that Primus canisters have more fuel in a lighter canister than the snowpeak/msr canisters. Is this true?
I've got six 110g snow peak cannisters here. 3 weigh 197g each, 2 are 198g, and one is 196g.
The empty one that I have weighs 92g.
Given that, they roughly contain 105g of usable fuel in each cannister. I don't know what the others are, but you have, at least, 1/3 of your answer.
Well, actually, in looking around, it would appear that the primus cans only come in 225g and 400g sizes, which pretty much makes this entire post moot, but I went to all the trouble of weighing the damn things, so I'm posting it anyway.
Sleepy the Arab
10-19-2003, 17:29
Originally posted by tlbj6142
Either that, or put one in your bounce box. Which gives you a month worth of on trail meals before you need to find another one.
Whoah, hold there a second! You can't just throw a butane canister in your bouce box and mail it ahead to yourself. The post office gets mighty anxious about sending flammable liquids through the mail unless they have about forty dollars of special stickers slapped on the outside of the box.
Canister stoves are readily available on the AT. I found quite a few in hiker boxes and didn't find a single outfitter that didn't have them. I've used the Pocket Rocket for over 3,000 miles over the last two years. Sometimes I had a couple canisters in my pack but not often. I didn't cook breakfast and was able to use a single canister for 18-24 days at a time. Note, this isn't the same as 18-24 *meals*. Many nights I was in town getting dinner and didn't use the stove.
You don't need any stickers to send fuel via USPS ground. You can just write on the box and expect the package to take a little longer.
tlbj6142
10-19-2003, 22:31
Originally posted by Sleepy the Arab
Whoah, hold there a second! You can't just throw a butane canister in your bouce box and mail it ahead to yourself. The post office gets mighty anxious about sending flammable liquids through the mail unless they have about forty dollars of special stickers slapped on the outside of the box. What I find funny is that you need to use the same sticker for canisters as you do to ship purell. How many bounce boxes out there do NOT have red stickers on them even though they contain a 4oz bottle of hand sanitizer?:D
smokymtnsteve
10-19-2003, 23:02
Originally posted by tlbj6142
4oz bottle of hand sanitizer?:D
a 4 oz bottle???
man,that's lot of hand sanitizer
tlbj6142
10-20-2003, 10:00
Use it to refil your 2oz bottle.
If you are cooking for one, the lower BTU output of alcohol stoves is mute. When you are only heating up 2 cups of water, then the extra time needed for alcohol isn't a big deal.
It becomes a big deal when heating water in larger quantities, or melting snow.
I have been a long time user of Whisperlite. But, like other thru-hikers, I now use a Pepsi can stove in mild weather and when solo.
has anyone tried to increase the BTU's of an alcohol stove by using a can with a wider diameter such as a fosters can of beer?
Youngblood
11-10-2003, 11:36
has anyone tried to increase the BTU's of an alcohol stove by using a can with a wider diameter such as a fosters can of beer?
Yes, I use the tins from tea light candles. Sometimes one, sometimes two and in cold winter conditions I might use three. If I am cooking something where I need to bring it to a boil and then simmer for while, I will half fill one tin and fully fill the second tin. The tins work pretty well with the right pan, stand, wrapped wind screen and ground reflector/preheat pan. If you just set one of these tins out by itself it is pretty puny, but with the rest of the setup it works very well (especially two tins) and you can extinuish the burners by blowing them out and it takes about 15 seconds for them to cool down enough to pick up and pour the unused fuel back into my fuel bottle. The preheat pan quickly & easily lites the alcohol in the tin and the radiant heat from the blackened pan keeps the fuel warm enough to produce a hot flame.
Youngblood