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Lilred
07-18-2007, 14:17
Edit LW? No, he gets away with all the snarkiness he wants. He's a "legend" this site needs for cache. But Lil Red and her pissant 700 miles, well, let's just d*** her to hell.

You are not to argue with them? Are you serious? What is this the Bush White House? Am I going to banned? Lose my talking privileges? Gimme a break.

End the d*** thread, but don't selectively choose who you are going to jump on based on their trail miles.

Keep posting Lil Red.

Thanks for your support Yahtzee, but I don't think my miles has anything to do with my being 'warned'. I think that the atmosphere of this site is changing and we all have to change with it. The name calling and swearing has to stop, but at the same time, I sincerely hope that this site doesn't become 'politically correct' as to where everyone has to word every post so as not to offend anyone else. This place surely will go down the tubes if that happens.
The thread from the hooking up forum has drifted off topic. Has it resorted to swearing and namecalling? no, so there is no reason to threaten anyone with deleted posts or lessened priviledges. Simply move the thread to a more appropriate forum. Here's a clue, if the author of the thread is actively involved and interested in how the topic has drifted, leave it alone. Warren and I were having a nice discussion, I thought. And then I was warned to stay on topic, so I did, I thought, and then I was jumped on again. You can imagine how I felt when another person jumped to my defense. I'm still not sure just what happened there.

Admin, personally, I think that what has been voiced in recent posts is fear. Fear that Whiteblaze is going to go nazi. Whiteblaze has been what it is for so very long now, that lessening the impact some have on here will in some way lessen Whiteblaze. Frankly, I agree. L.W. and others may not say things in the most politically correct way, but I guarantee you they say things a lot of us wish we had the balls to say.


this is my observation of what has happened here at WB and I'm probably wrong but here goes. Some very opposite poles have come in contact with each other and over the years the tensions have increased to heated public discussions. Other 'new arrivals' have read these arguements and are offended by the language or simply by the fact that we all don't get along. BTW, I include myself as a new arrival, having only been here for four years. Once an arguement deteriorates into namecalling, it becomes old real fast, and others are tired of it. I agree. I'm sure people can get their message across, whether nice or not, without swearing or namecalling.

But I read a post recently by a newbie, I think it was only their fourth or fifth post, and they were really upset about people not getting along on this forum and that they probably wouldn't be back. I remember the phrase, 'if this is what it's like on the trail' being used.

I sincerely hope this forum doesn't turn into a politically correct piece of white bread where not a discouraging word was heard in order to please those that are easily offended. I sincerely hope that the opposing poles on this forum can continue their heated disagreements without worrying about offending others. If we are all made to 'play nice' then this site will lose a lot of it's charm and appeal and freedom. Isn't that one of the reasons we love the trail so much? The freedom? It's gotta be the same way on this forum, or I'm afraid this place will lose much of what we come here for. There are certain individuals who will jump into a conversation just to point out that someone is not being nice. They have no contribution to the discussion, they have no dog in the fight whatsover, but will jump in and be like the tattletale on the playground. "They're not playing nice, they're at it again teacher". THAT is stirring the pot. Delete those posts and any with language or name calling issues. I'm fine with that. But delete my post cause I'm not nice?

Delete posts for language and we'll all probably thank you. Delete posts for its substance and we'll all probably start leaving. If a thread drifts off topic, simply move it to an appropriate forum and retitle it, I think we'd be able to find it and happily continue with whatever discussion was going on.

I recently had a post deleted because I wasn't nice. I didn't swear and I didn't call anyone a nasty name, I just quoted what a poster said and made a two sentance observation about the quote, in a not so nice way. Yes, even I can stick it to people now and then. The moderator made no mention on the thread that it was being removed, thank you. Instead a pm was sent to me telling me the reasons why. I thought the way it was handled was very professional and nice and I wasn't upset. However, after this recent posting of mine has been questioned, I feel the shift from cleaning up the language, to cleaning up the substance is happening.

When one member of this forum feels they must jump to the defense of another member, against a moderator???..... then we're all heading for trouble.

That's just my observation. Any and all comments are welcomed. Even those that are not nice. Just don't swear at me or call me an idiot, I already know I'm the latter.

John B
07-18-2007, 14:55
"...but I don't think my miles has anything to do with my being 'warned'. I think that the atmosphere of this site is changing..."

I agree. I don't particularly care much for some of the decisions of some of the new moderators.

Heater
07-18-2007, 15:00
Well said, 'Lil Red...

:clap:clap:clap:clap

Alligator
07-18-2007, 15:09
I edited your post Lilred(a single one myself) in the 2010 thread because I had just asked (nicely) for those interested in having the off-topic discussion to start a new thread in a more appropriate forum. When you quoted my post, I assumed you had read that request and chosen to ignore it.

Splitting and moving a thread can be a PITA, so I asked the more interested parties to start a new thread. This allows you to frame the discussion. Nobody did. It wasn't the topic, it was that it was off-topic/in the wrong place. The reasoning there is that the hooking up forum is simply a place to arrange hikes with other hikers. Having a hugely blown up thread about WD in the hooking up forum does not reflect well to newcomers. The exact same thread had already initiated a bashing fest previously so stronger measures were taken to keep the thread on topic.

Heater
07-18-2007, 15:20
I edited your post Lilred(a single one myself) in the 2010 thread because I had just asked (nicely) for those interested in having the off-topic discussion to start a new thread in a more appropriate forum. When you quoted my post, I assumed you had read that request and chosen to ignore it.

Geeee, Whodathunkit?!! I never woulda seen that comin. :rolleyes:

Even if I had, Expessing my thoughts would have been considered argumentative... ;)

Us "small potatos" can never win... :-?

Alligator
07-18-2007, 15:44
Geeee, Whodathunkit?!! I never woulda seen that comin. :rolleyes:

Even if I had, Expessing my thoughts would have been considered argumentative... ;)

Us "small potatos" can never win... :-?If there's something specific you wish to discuss don't hold back:rolleyes: .

But it sounds like a personal grievance, you can PM if you like.

Ender
07-18-2007, 15:56
My personal observation is that the moderators generally do a great job around here. And considering they don't get paid, they gt a thumbs up from me.

My opinion is that Whiteblaze has been a sorta madhouse, and I don't mind a little cleaning up of language, especially of the personal attacks. I can think of 5 people right off the top of my head that came to Whiteblaze, but left after witnessing attack after attack... can't say I blame them, but it's a real shame they didn't stick it out because there's a veritable treasure trove of good info here.

I think the transition period from "madhouse" to "mostly madhouse" may be a little difficult, for both moderators and users alike. Change is never easy. The moderators here have acted in good faith in the past, and I have faith they will continue to act so. Sure, mistakes may be made from time to time, but heck... they aren't getting paid.

And besides, it's an internet forum... stop taking it so seriously folks :p

Heater
07-18-2007, 16:02
If there's something specific you wish to discuss don't hold back:rolleyes: .

But it sounds like a personal grievance, you can PM if you like.

Why PM. This is on topic.

I have no grievance with you. I think you as part of the mod-squad :D knew exactly where I was coming from last night as evidenced from your follow up. The Admin didn't. This is just a prime example of what I was trying to get across to you. I hope you see that now.

I will not be so ready and willing to offer my helpful input and thoughts on the subject in in threads not dedicated to that subject the future. Sometimes the only way to learn is from mistakes. Sometimes, you just gotta let it run the course.

mweinstone
07-18-2007, 16:04
boring negitive.

Chaco Taco
07-18-2007, 16:10
Im sticking my nose here for a specific purpose. I dont know the situation too much but do understand about the personal attacks. The part that really messes with my head is that I hear about some of this crap when i am actually out on the trail. Its so stupid. Im not finger pointing but "some" of you are grown freakin adults, try acting like it.
Lil Red, i agree with alot of what you say. If there are people here that are using mileage as merit then I just assume that I dont want to be apart of this forum because someone has their head up their behind and wants to use their "mileage" as a credential for making it seem like they know more than anyone about anything. I have hiked with some that have done 3 times as more than I have and have been at it much longer than me. That doesnt make them any better than me. Grow up people!:rolleyes: :mad:
If this is too nasty, delete it but Im ticked off that "certain" people on here think they are better than others because they have got more miles. I do lean on them for advice but when they attack someone, whatever, I just assume drop my membership

mweinstone
07-18-2007, 16:14
i just found out i have aprox 4000 mi. i thaught i might be around 2000. wow. im cool. a friend helped me with the math. i never cared . now do i get to boast? if so , i would like to start by saying, i can eat more than you. thank you very much.lol.

Chaco Taco
07-18-2007, 16:18
i just found out i have aprox 4000 mi. i thaught i might be around 2000. wow. im cool. a friend helped me with the math. i never cared . now do i get to boast? if so , i would like to start by saying, i can eat more than you. thank you very much.lol.


thats funny right there:D . I literally busted out laughing after that MW. Thanks!:banana

Appalachian Tater
07-18-2007, 16:20
"Hooking Up" should be a straight-forward only forum. But when Warren Doyle advertises his Circle, he's not looking for a hook up, he's selling a trail service, so you could make the case that it is the wrong forum.

I also think the moderators here do a wonderful job and are fairly hands-off.

Heater
07-18-2007, 16:23
Waitaminute... hold on... What was the topic? Short term memory loss? Please help me. I am lost.

Alligator
07-18-2007, 16:24
Why PM. This is on topic.

I have no grievance with you. I think you as part of the mod-squad :D knew exactly where I was coming from last night as evidenced from your follow up. The Admin didn't. This is just a prime example of what I was trying to get across to you. I hope you see that now.

I will not be so ready and willing to offer my helpful input and thoughts on the subject in in threads not dedicated to that subject the future. Sometimes the only way to learn is from mistakes. Sometimes, you just gotta let it run the course.I think I see the problem(s):) .

When you quoted me (76 posts), it reads like you're saying I let the posts slide. That's not really what you are saying correct? You feel that certain people are getting away with things, the big potatoes? This appears to be true but is technically incorrect because moderation changed course midthread. I'm not personally going to go back and overrule admin. We try not to step on one anothers toes. Jack did get moderated early in the thread though. Further, the new policy is specifically aimed at the big potatoes. And some posts get deleted and you never see those.

FYI, I deleted your last post in that thread. I was considering what to do with it, moreso from an off topic perspective than an argumentative position, when I got a PM. I hadn't made a complete decision on it, but it got deleted in the heat of the moment.

PM is a good vehicle to express problems first. It's like unbinding mediation. Many times it can clear up misunderstandings related to the more limited method of discussion that is a forum. PM is general protocol too for questioning mods/admin decisions. If it doesn't work, one can always go public.

Alligator
07-18-2007, 16:33
...If there are people here that are using mileage as merit then I just assume that I dont want to be apart of this forum because someone has their head up their behind and wants to use their "mileage" as a credential for making it seem like they know more than anyone about anything. ..That comment last night was way off base. I read most everything here. I know that Lilred is a teacher, a section hiker, she does long distance several week hikes over the summers, and that she recently moved. I had no idea how many miles she had, nor would I ever belittle her for however many she has. And I give grief to Jack, LW, and Warren quite regularly:D .

Blue Jay
07-18-2007, 16:41
I sincerely hope that this site doesn't become 'politically correct'

Admin, personally, I think that what has been voiced in recent posts is fear. Fear that Whiteblaze is going to go nazi.

I sincerely hope this forum doesn't turn into a politically correct piece of white bread where not a discouraging word was heard in order to please those that are easily offended.

When one member of this forum feels they must jump to the defense of another member, against a moderator???..... then we're all heading for trouble.

Too late, the politically correct nazi Alligator now rules, and I thought Dixicritter was bad. Next they're going to allow Minnisota Smith to bew a moderator. Great post though Lil Red, but I doubt Alligator cares now that he has power. Mr. Phelps, this post will shortly self destruct

Alligator
07-18-2007, 16:42
"Hooking Up" should be a straight-forward only forum. But when Warren Doyle advertises his Circle, he's not looking for a hook up, he's selling a trail service, so you could make the case that it is the wrong forum.

I also think the moderators here do a wonderful job and are fairly hands-off.It seems like common sense that it would be, given that it rarely needs moderation. Do you think we need to do that for the selling/buying used gear forums too so that we don't have flame wars there?

This doesn't sound like he is making money. If you have other hard information present it.

A $20 annual donation is requested to cover expenses incurred during the 2.5 preparation period. For those folks who decide, after a 2.5 month preparation period, that they want to participate in the expedition, a donation to cover expenses of the expedition (i.e., gas, support van upkeep, group supplies, campground fees, etc.) is requested within a month of the expedition's start. Suggested donation is set by prevailing gas prices and the number of participants. Either I, or the support van driver, keep receipts of all expenses and if there is money left in the donation pool at the end of the trek, it is refunded to the expedition members if they want it.

Heater
07-18-2007, 16:47
I think I see the problem(s):) .

When you quoted me (76 posts), it reads like you're saying I let the posts slide. That's not really what you are saying correct? You feel that certain people are getting away with things, the big potatoes?

No. Whoa! I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth. That was in response to another poster LATER in that thread that said (not directed at me, I think) that the complainers, and I will paraphrase, were "small potatos in the wrong part of the garden need to find other places to root".

You disagreed. Remember?




This appears to be true but is technically incorrect because moderation changed course midthread. I'm not personally going to go back and overrule admin. We try not to step on one anothers toes. Jack did get moderated early in the thread though. Further, the new policy is specifically aimed at the big potatoes. And some posts get deleted and you never see those.

FYI, I deleted your last post in that thread. I was considering what to do with it, moreso from an off topic perspective than an argumentative position, when I got a PM. I hadn't made a complete decision on it, but it got deleted in the heat of the moment. That was the one pointing out that the whole "off topic discussion" discussion was in fact "off topic", right? I did notice but really could not care less about that deletion. I did wonder, why... though.



PM is a good vehicle to express problems first. It's like unbinding mediation. Many times it can clear up misunderstandings related to the more limited method of discussion that is a forum. PM is general protocol too for questioning mods/admin decisions. If it doesn't work, one can always go public.I am going to agree with you 1000% there. I had two PMs from SGT. Rock in the past for minor things and that was all there was to it. DONE. Problem solved. That is not happening anymore. People are being called out (myself included... twice, and YOU a couple of times as well if I remember correctly) without the courtesy of a PM beforehand.

I wasn't going to say it but since you brought it up I think Rock was much more diplomatic and got the "job" done with less problems. I miss Rock.

Alligator
07-18-2007, 16:50
Too late, the politically correct nazi Alligator now rules, and I thought Dixicritter was bad. Next they're going to allow Minnisota Smith to bew a moderator. Great post though Lil Red, but I doubt Alligator cares now that he has power. Mr. Phelps, this post will shortly self destructActually I do care BJ. The reason the policy was needed was due to trolling, like you're doing here. Good job BJ. We know you don't care.

Heater
07-18-2007, 16:56
Actually I do care BJ. The reason the policy was needed was due to trolling, like you're doing here. Good job BJ. We know you don't care.

On topic.

There was a time (last week, last month) when you would have jabbed back all in good fun. Sad response. :(

Alligator
07-18-2007, 17:00
No. Whoa! I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth. That was in response to another poster LATER in that thread that said (not directed at me, I think) that the complainers, and I will paraphrase, were "small potatos in the wrong part of the garden need to find other places to root".

You disagreed. Remember?Sorry, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. It was a little enigmatic, I've never heard that phrase before. What I thought he meant was that I may have been speaking to the wrong folks. I disagreed because there were many people reading the thread.


I am going to agree with you 1000% there. I had two PMs from SGT. Rock in the past for minor things and that was all there was to it. DONE. Problem solved. That is not happening anymore. People are being called out (myself included... twice, and YOU a couple of times as well if I remember correctly) without the courtesy of a PM beforehand.

I wasn't going to say it but since you brought it up I think Rock was much more diplomatic and got the "job" done with less problems. I miss Rock.PM's go both ways right? Not that I haven't used them, just not in all cases. And I miss Rock too.

Alligator
07-18-2007, 17:01
On topic.

There was a time (last week, last month) when you would have jabbed back all in good fun. Sad response. :(You're right, but I did delete three posts first;) . You want me to be more diplomatic or do you want me to raise hell?

Heater
07-18-2007, 17:23
Sorry, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. It was a little enigmatic, I've never heard that phrase before. What I thought he meant was that I may have been speaking to the wrong folks. I disagreed because there were many people reading the thread.

Yeah. That is why it will be next to impossible to (efficiently or more importantly fairly) moderate all the threads on a site with the kind of volume this place generates. Your gonna need a lot more mods. As others have intimated, this place did not get 10,000 plus subscribers by strictly moderating posts. This site has been, with the exception of a few posters, almost self-moderating. IOW, It was FUN to come here. I do not know why this latest trend of heavy moderation has come about but it could be detrimental to the continuing success this site has enjoyed. If it 'aint fun anymore, it'll be Trailplace.


PM's go both ways right? Not that I haven't used them, just not in all cases. And I miss Rock too.

Chaco Taco
07-18-2007, 17:30
it'll be Trailplace.

I was thinkin it but wasnt going to be the one to say it

Heater
07-18-2007, 17:37
I was thinkin it but wasnt going to be the one to say it

Me too, but it has already been said several times. Soooooo......... :-?

dixicritter
07-18-2007, 20:05
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.

Yahtzee
07-18-2007, 20:42
My guess is things will go back to self-moderating goodness. BJ, LW, WD etal, all care about the trail in their own little way and I am sure they will see what is going on and tone down. Naive? Maybe. But I don't think the AT or this site are so far gone that problems can't be rectified.

My opinion is moderate and delete away. If they don't like it they can go elsewhere. It's your site. Just like Trailplace is WF's. People can stay or go, if they like. People left Trailplace because WF was a bit of a fascist. His way or the highway. I don't get that here. My sense is admin wants to keep the conversations civil.

And on that note, Matthewski---boring? negative? "I learned it by watching you dad, I learned it by watching you."

Jimmers
07-18-2007, 20:47
Dixi,
I think you and the other admins are doing a great job with something that is usually thankless. Keep it up!:D

I rather enjoy not having the ugly flamewars breakout everytime certain people post on the same thread. How many times can the same laundry be aired in public before it gets old? Nothing's changed except the enforcement of the rules is a little stricter now.

Alligator
07-18-2007, 21:02
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.Well if you think it can't be worked out I had something to say to BJ anyways.


Too late, the politically correct nazi Alligator now rules, and I thought Dixicritter was bad. Next they're going to allow Minnisota Smith to bew a moderator. Great post though Lil Red, but I doubt Alligator cares now that he has power. Mr. Phelps, this post will shortly self destructWell then Sticky, it's play ball time. Power dumbass? There's no power in being a mod. It's about service. I helped out and stepped up because admin asked for help. There are no perks to moderating the news, the hooking up forum, nor the ride board you whack job. I don't know where you get your ideas from but those programs you hear in your head are not sent from aliens. If you never noticed, I do enjoy bashing crackheads like you, but I was willing to forgo that in the hopes of ending some long-standing, festering, trolling. Not you per se, because every once in a while I think, he can't be all that bad, there are occasional moments of lucidity. But rather another poster, FOS thief whose initials adorn lubrication cans. So if this is the way you like it BJ, I'll be more than happy to serve it to you:cool: .

Roland
07-18-2007, 21:07
Feel better now, alligator? ;)

Let me go on record to say that I think you and Dixi are doing a great job, and I appreciate your efforts.

You can't always please everyone, but in the end a more civil WB is a better WB.

warren doyle
07-18-2007, 21:37
I like the new and improved Whiteblaze. I think WB will still be very informative but with differing opinions to be voiced in a more civil way.

The moderators have my trust and support for their new policy.

Marta
07-18-2007, 21:52
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.

Dixicritter--Please don't run off mad. I really appreciate your efforts and will greatly miss your sense of humor and fair play. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect way more people support the enforcement of a civil tone than resent its restraints.

Marta/Five-Leaf

SGT Rock
07-18-2007, 22:16
I am disappointed.

My wife, out of the goodness of her heart came here to help out while I have been deployed on and off over the last 57.5 months. She did it to help me and support me because she knows how much I love this site. But over the last year or she has had a few times she has wanted to throw in the towel.

Tonight I was out in the field training soldiers and I got a call from her. She has been putting up with my absence for the last 19 months with a few weeks sprinkled in where I have got to be home. Add to that she has been raising the boys, keeping up the house, and dealing with our daughter and grandson's issues. On top of all that stuff, she has been dealing with WhiteBlazers that have caused her more grief than all that other stuff put together. Tonight she was fed up to her potential to deal with it.

So again, I am disappointed. Here was someone that came here to help out of love, loyalty, and dedication - and got a great deal of grief.

No good dead goes unpunished. Thanks for how you have acted to my wife. I just want you all to know that in consideration to her, and for my love for her and consideration for how it has affected her, I am considering tendering my reservation as well.

Now I am headed back out to the machine gun range. Y'all want me back instead of her, well it may not happen.

Frosty
07-18-2007, 22:19
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.Can't say I blame you a single bit. Thank you very much for trying. And thanks for your efforts, too, Alligator. Must be tough to try to keep things running smoothly but be insulted and attacked for your efforts. Now you know how administrators in nursing homes and asylums feel. Keep the faith. Kharma will out.

Midway Sam
07-18-2007, 22:31
This is a freaking forum about a trail. Lighten up folks. I think some people here need to log off for a few days and actually go walk on the trail. It'll change your perspective.

Moderating a forum is a thankless, paylees, rewardless, and all sorts of other "-less" things. I have personally hosted and administered a discussion forum of 8,000+- members for 7 years now. I could probably find 10 threads just like this one where either I or one of my mods got so freaking disgusted at it all that we called it quits. My forum is about woodworking, this one is about the Appalachian Trail but it seems the same moronic types frequent both.

Dixi, Rock, et al... Take a break. Forget about this place for a while. Then come back once the "pot stirrers" have gotten bored and moved on to something else they feel they can ruin. Those of us who appreciate you and your efforts will gladly and warmly welcome you back.

Roland
07-18-2007, 22:34
Rock,

Don't let a few vocal ingrates get you down.

There are plenty of us here that appreciate your dedication and sacrifice you, Dixi and the other administrators/moderators have made for this website.

SassyWindsor
07-19-2007, 00:51
I am disappointed........

..........Y'all want me back instead of her, well it may not happen.



Sounds like SNIVELLING to me!!!

Jimmers
07-19-2007, 02:24
Another county heard from.:rolleyes:

Grow up, comments like that are exactly what Rock is talking about. They're unneeded and unappreciated.

gregdog
07-19-2007, 08:02
Ok, gotta put my 2 cents in now. Rock & Dixi, seems like by far the vast majority of users here appreciate this site and what you do to help the hikers. I have recently finished a section with the help of a WB member, (Tiamalle) who shuttled my boys and I, gave us valuable info about the area, and ensured us that if we ran into any issues we could call him for help. All happened from networkin on WB. Don't play into the hands of a few, I wouldn't even react to them.stay motivated by the many who enjoy this resource and moderate however you see fit, you need not explain yourself at all.

Ender
07-19-2007, 09:20
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.

I can't say I blame you, though I personally wish you wouldn't go. I think it's just a very loud, very vocal minority that continues to act like spoiled brats. I know dealing with these people must be frustrating beyond belief, and I want you to know that you have my full gratitude for dealing with all this, to whatever extent you decide to deal with it.

I've felt for quite a long time that the total lack of civility of certain posters on these forums has been nothing but detrimental to the purpose of this site, regardless of the experience that these people could have passed along to the newer members. I was quite liking the direction that WB was turning towards recently in trying to curtail this. I hope you don't give it up entirely!

Just know that you have my thanks for your efforts. And I believe that except for this pissant minority, the bulk of the posters on this site feel the same way. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it. We're just less vocal. Maybe it's time we, the quiet majority, stop being less vocal and start speaking up in opposition to these immature posters.

Anyway, thanks again, and I hope you don't go, and I hope you don't give up... but if you do, you have my full thanks and support in that as well. I don't think I could deal with what you've had to put up with.

fishinfred
07-19-2007, 09:29
WOW...someone call the WAHHHHMBULANCE
Rock,Dixie,Troll and all the others who help ya out ...YOU ROCK !What you have done here is created the BEST DAMN INFORMATIVE WEBSITE for ANYONE interested in the AT.HOW AWSOME ! THANK YOU !
Its just like on the Trail the folks 99% are GREAT FOLKS mostly out there for similar reasons whatever they are.....its what BONDS us all together as a community !Then theres that other 1% that always seems to show up somewheres ....Its just the way it is out there.
DON'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY HERE ......REMEMBER THAT THIS IS YOUR SITE that 99% of us are here because we enjoy the Trail and getting all the ifo we can about it!

Im sure that all the folks here would think it just fine if the 1% of Pack Sniffin ,**** stirrin ,off topic (over and over) ...on and on were GONE!
It dosent have to go down like TrailPlace eithor...give em 1 warning if they think its a joke ,have a vote between ya'll, if ya'll agree BOOM ...Problem solved!
Don't let that 1 % get to ya ! Whatever you do 99% of us are sure to keep on enjoying what ya'll do with this site !
:banana
THANKS AGAIN!
PEACE!
FF

berninbush
07-19-2007, 10:13
I'm definitely "on the fringes" of this website, not one of the primary members, but perhaps I can offer a different perspective here.

I've been a moderator on another forum, and I know first-hand what a hard, thankless, time-consuming task it can be. You pretty much can't win. No matter what you do, someone will cry that you're being "unfair" or "too strict" or "too lax." And from a purely technical standpoint, there's a whole lot of tedium in thread management that the members have no idea about. (Moving a large number of posts from one thread to another can be incredibly time-consuming if your software makes you move them one at a time, as many do.)

The forum I volunteered for (where I still participate as a member) is much, MUCH more strictly moderated than Whiteblaze. That is appropriate, due to the nature of the forum, which is used by many children and adolescents. Safety (physical and emotional) is a primary concern; also, the founder's primary reason for starting it was to avoid the intense negativity he saw on other similar websites.

Some of the forum rules include "no profanity" (strictly enforced... including some words you might not even consider profane!), all threads must stay strictly on topic (even two or three posts off topic will generally bring a mod comment, and single off-topic posts may be moved), and the "respect" rule which says that anything a member says should be respectful of other members (and people outside the forum as well). I'm not saying these rules would be appropriate for Whiteblaze, which has a much older and more diverse membership. But perhaps they provide a good ideal for Whiteblaze users to think about before they post.

It is indeed possible to forcefully disagree with someone and yet still avoid disrepsect and profanity. It just requires more thought and creativity. Abuse is easy to pile on; ad hominem attacks are a cheap shot to take; well-reasoned debate is a much more difficult art to master.

As far as keeping threads on topic, I've seen the value of this first hand. You may roll your eyes when a mod jumps on a slightly-off-topic post... but on the other hand, if the mods do nothing, every thread will disintegrate into a free-for-all and valuable information will be lost in the jumble. Think of walking into a library where a bunch of people are amusing themselves by picking up all the books off the shelf and throwing them at one another. Not only must you fear getting hit in the cross-fire, but your chances of finding what you need are slim.

One thing I've noticed on Whiteblaze: a lot of threads seem to have a "honeymoon period" where they stay on topic and answer the original question. Sometimes the original poster will even return, thank everyone for the replies, and say that they are satisfied. Then after that, people get bored and start picking on one another. Perhaps threads should be closed once their original purpose is served, and if someone wants to renew the topic they can start a new thread or ask a mod to re-open the old one.

jesse
07-19-2007, 10:41
I love wb, I hope Sgt Rock and Dixie stay around forever.
The problem with the thread in question, IMO, is it was in the "hooking up" forum, and the "hooking up" forum is suppose to be straight forward, stay on topic. Mr Doyle opened up the thread with "not so straight forward" phrases such as "this is not slackpacking". It took several post before he gave us his definition, (which is 180 degrees opposite of the the common use definition) of "slackpacking".
Bottom line: If someone wants their "straight forward", or "hooking up" threads to stay on topic, then they need to be more clear in their orginial post, and not invite an argument.

Ewker
07-19-2007, 11:07
Bottom line: If someone wants their "straight forward", or "hooking up" threads to stay on topic, then they need to be more clear in their orginial post, and not invite an argument.


seems to me anything posted by WD is an invite to an argument by some no matter where it is posted :p

I may or may not agree with what he says or does but no need to rehash it time and time again.

Alligator
07-19-2007, 11:15
I love wb, I hope Sgt Rock and Dixie stay around forever.
The problem with the thread in question, IMO, is it was in the "hooking up" forum, and the "hooking up" forum is suppose to be straight forward, stay on topic. Mr Doyle opened up the thread with "not so straight forward" phrases such as "this is not slackpacking". It took several post before he gave us his definition, (which is 180 degrees opposite of the the common use definition) of "slackpacking".
Bottom line: If someone wants their "straight forward", or "hooking up" threads to stay on topic, then they need to be more clear in their orginial post, and not invite an argument.Those are all good points Jesse. It's not exactly straight forward, which is Q&A for instance, but it's a reasonable way to think about it.

I agree, it was an invitation for commentary. One could even go so far as to consider it a well-crafted troll, but not everyone might see it that way:-?. By the time I returned, the definitions had been squared away. Understandable discussion surely.

Now, in general, WB is very lax about off-topic posts. However, there has been a part of the user agreement which states
"Do not post inflammatory messages, spam, “off topic” posts, or hijack topics." It was not unreasonable to request that the off-topic discussion be moved to another thread, given that it was the hooking up forum, that the thread was moving off-topic, and that it was a WD thread.

Further, I don't expect that there will be a strong emphasis in the future for catching every off-topic thread. But it is not unreasonable to ask for a little bit of order once in a while, given the circumstances.

Lilred
07-19-2007, 11:45
well this thread sure went south in a hurry. I was hoping for a conversation on how things can be run better or, more specifically, how posts could be addressed better.

Alligator, I'm really dissappointed in you. Go back to that post and read your warning. It sounded to me like the first sentence you wrote was addressing the original topic and the second sentence you wrote was addressing the drift. Then I got attacked by you and others for posting what I thought was on topic. I rarely look at forum headings. After having a post deleted and then that mess, I really felt like this place was losing it. Now I read your post to Blue Jay and there you are, swearing and namecalling. Doing exactly what you are supposed to be cleaning up. I guess you think if you take the 'u' out of the f word you're not swearing? think again. How can you possibly moderate threads when you can't even moderate yourself.

Dixie and Rock, I apologize to both of you for starting this thread. I was hurt when I wrote it. You guys Rock and I would never want to hurt either of you. I've learned a lot on W.B. and I've made some very good friends here. Please just close this thread.

oldfivetango
07-19-2007, 11:47
Would it be appropriate to have a General Chatter or BS thread
where there are no real topics to which one must adhere?I wonder
how that would be perceived?It would be a "visitation forum" for
gerneral bs.Anyway,I would like to put it in the Sugestions Box.:D
That way the other threads could have more opportunity to stay
on topic.
Oldfivetango

berninbush
07-19-2007, 12:00
Would it be appropriate to have a General Chatter or BS thread
where there are no real topics to which one must adhere?I wonder
how that would be perceived?It would be a "visitation forum" for
gerneral bs.

The forum I helped moderate has a thread like that. It can help keep other threads on-topic... but it also has to be watched if it is not to degenerate into a flame war.

On the other hand, if certain people really WANT a never-ending flame war, perhaps it makes sense to give them a place to do it where the rest of us don't have to be disturbed. :D As long as they agree to keep it there and off the rest of the forum.

Alligator
07-19-2007, 12:01
...Alligator, I'm really dissappointed in you. Go back to that post and read your warning. It sounded to me like the first sentence you wrote was addressing the original topic and the second sentence you wrote was addressing the drift. Then I got attacked by you and others for posting what I thought was on topic. I rarely look at forum headings. After having a post deleted and then that mess, I really felt like this place was losing it. Now I read your post to Blue Jay and there you are, swearing and namecalling. Doing exactly what you are supposed to be cleaning up. I guess you think if you take the 'u' out of the f word you're not swearing? think again. How can you possibly moderate threads when you can't even moderate yourself.
...Lilred-I posted that piece to BJ as a very cold example of how 'self-moderation' of the site used to work. Dixi gave the go ahead to return it the way some of you are advocating it to be. Just to be straight, there was no coordination between her and I in any way though. I took the opportunity myself.

Regarding my warning, you are referring to this post?
It seems like both definitions regarding the term slackpacker have been presented, which was somewhat pertinent to Warren's future trip. Whether or not the modern definition of slackpacking or backpacking is harder is best covered in another forum. Please start another thread if there is to be any further discussion on that matter. Thank you.

Which was followed by this post
It's in the hooking up forum, which is about trip plans. The suggestion was that if people are interested in a more general discussion, to simply have that discussion in a more appropriate place. Periodically, old trip plans are removed from this forum.

At which point I edited your post #71. There was a second paragraph there, regarding the difficulty of slackpacking vs backpacking. It was short. That got deleted.

Then, I quoted your post #71, my post #76, which did not have the deletion at this point. I assumed you would remember the remainder of your post.

At this point I said (#76)


And sometimes people use terms in their older context. Warren stated the definition he was using, and his use was supported by both Lone Wolf and Steve the Ferryman. Regardless, this isn't an English Language site. This forum isn't to debate language. It's to connect hikers who wish to hike together. If you have other issues, move them to the appropriate forum. That's the last time I will ask.
From there, the definitions were out, with no more need to continue arguing the point.

WalkingStick75
07-19-2007, 12:14
Im new here to WB but not new to the AT (WalkingStick"75") This reminds me of some shelter logs. Swearing is not necessary and even if you put the ?* marks it is all the same, delete the post. I think everyone has to remember that a lot is lost in the written word, something can be said and you dont think anything of it but taken wrong if written.

So far I really like WB but like on the trail hike your own hike.

Marta
07-19-2007, 13:06
Thread drift is one of the charming features of WhiteBlaze. I'd be very surprised if the moderators clamp down too hard on them in any but the Straight Forward forums.

Personal attacks are ugly, counterproductive, and horrifying to newbies who come here looking for information about hiking. I'd be happy to see them (that is the personal attacks, not the newbies) disappear without a trace.

Marta/Five-Leaf

D'Artagnan
07-19-2007, 13:14
Im new here to WB but not new to the AT (WalkingStick"75") This reminds me of some shelter logs. Swearing is not necessary and even if you put the ?* marks it is all the same, delete the post. I think everyone has to remember that a lot is lost in the written word, something can be said and you dont think anything of it but taken wrong if written.

So far I really like WB but like on the trail hike your own hike.

I can't remember the quote exactly or where I read it, but it was something to the effect: "Profanity is a weak mind trying to express itself forcibly."

Lilred
07-19-2007, 13:36
You posted that remark to Blue Jay as an example?? LOL and your other posts to him in the past were examples too? Oh please Alligator, you seem to be backpeddling here.

WB is trying to crack down on the swearing and namecalling and flaming on this site, like you and Blue Jay were engaged in just a few posts ago. It seems we have a moderator that is the pot calling the kettle black. Should us members just sit back and let it happen? Not this one. The 2010 thread was a civil, interesting thread until Alligator decided it was off topic and started threatening and censoring. Even Warren was engaged in it and interesting. It is very rare when we can have a discussion with Warren without the flaming, too bad it had to be interrupted.

berninbush
07-19-2007, 13:42
Lilred,

If you were to be asked to be a Whiteblaze moderator, would you do it?

Alligator
07-19-2007, 13:46
You posted that remark to Blue Jay as an example?? LOL and your other posts to him in the past were examples too? Oh please Alligator, you seem to be backpeddling here.
I said I enjoyed it when I wrote it. But it was definitely made over the top on purpose.

WB is trying to crack down on the swearing and namecalling and flaming on this site, like you and Blue Jay were engaged in just a few posts ago. It seems we have a moderator that is the pot calling the kettle black. Should us members just sit back and let it happen? Not this one. The 2010 thread was a civil, interesting thread until Alligator decided it was off topic and started threatening and censoring. Even Warren was engaged in it and interesting. It is very rare when we can have a discussion with Warren without the flaming, too bad it had to be interrupted.I quoted Dixi specifically to note the rescinded policy. I also refrained from tagging BJ immediately preceeding that, it's right there for your perusal (#20). In fact, I have not had to have the pleasure of speaking with BJ in quite a long time.

Baloney on the civil part. That same thread was locked down previously. It was a repost. In addition, there were already moderated posts early in the thread(post 2 edited, + a deletion before 3, Deleted post by Jack between 9 and 10). Try to keep the facts straight here please.

attroll
07-19-2007, 14:08
I want you all to know that I have not been sitting back and letting Dixie do all the work and moderating of the web site. I have also been just as active editing, deleting things on the site. All the blame if you want to call it that does not need to go on her shoulders.

I think everyone has a misconception of what we are doing here. We have been tolerating the bashing of Warren and others on the web site for a long time. I am not sticking up for Warren because as we know Warren also brings this on all by himself as we all know and he tries to stir the pot as well.

Like I said the bashing is not just on Warren. It is also on other people. I could list a whole bunch of names but listing the names is not going to help. The bashing is not helping the web site. I think what people need to do is stop and think for a minute about the reason why they logged onto WhiteBlaze for the first time. WhiteBlaze was created as a interactive INFORMATIVE WEBSITE and for people to stay in contact with each other. It has turned into more then that some good and some bad. The bashing is the bad. As Dixie said we get a lot of email and private messages from new and old users that say they doe not like how the web site is revolving with the bashing that is going on and that they will be leaving and not coming back. Some even ask to be deleted.

We are not turning this into a Trail Days (Wingfoot) web site as some of you have expressed worry over. We just are stopping the bashing and foul language that people are trying to use. We want to make this the best INFORMATIVE WEBSITE on the web. We do not want others like the new users to read bashing posts and things like that and think this is all this site is about. Think back to when you first logged on. If you started reading bashing posts when you first came to WhiteBlaze would you think it was a friendly atmosphere and would you want to participate?

What would you all do if there as no Administrators like Rock, Dixie or me on the web? What do you think it would be like right now without us? I am sure I will get some start ass remarks to this question. If we took WhiteBlaze offline now then look at the good information that would be lost to a lot of people. May of you take things for granted and do not realize what the site owners and Administrators go through.

I do not have time to type anymore because as it is now I am running late for work and I felt like I had to post something before I left for work even though I didn’t really have the time.

I talked to Dixie this morning on this and we have some things we are working on and talking about to help with this. We will make some announcements later with what we have discussed. That is of course if she stays on.

Thank you Dixie for all you have done in the past. I probably appreciate it more then anyone and I hope you and Rock both reconsider and stay on as Administrators.

Lilred
07-19-2007, 14:26
It was civil when I was engaged in it. Warren was being very informative and interesting. No one was flaming, there was no reason for you to jump in like you did. Again, if the author of the thread is engaged and interested in the way the topic has drifted, leave it alone, like the first moderator had done.

Alligator, I'm through with this thread and I'm through with you trying to justify jumping on my post. Anyone can go back and read what was written and decide for themselves. If what you did was so necessary, then why did I have people jumping to my defense?

The new WB policies were enforced in order to stop the namecalling, swearing, and those that jump into threads specifically to harass an individual. Neither one of my posts that were in question fell into any of those categories. If they did, I wouldn't have started this thread.

Yahtzee
07-19-2007, 14:53
Besides stopping the namecalling can we also edit and delete any of Lone Wolf's posts that are designed to show everyone on Whiteblaze how cool he is? I've flamed LW many times for his constant/pathological need to infect every thread with his "I'm cool and you're not" BS. Please tell me you are going to manage this as well. Imagine you are newbie coming to Whiteblaze for info about shelters, or trail magic, or water purifiers, how do you think LW's self-serving pithy one liners are going to make the AT community seem? It seems to me that his posts do way more damage than a flame war between BJ and WD. There the target of the flame is known and we are all just witnesses to the wordplay, whereas with LW his posts are directed at everyone who doesn't hike exactly like him.

If I were a newbie visiting this site, I would think to myself, "man BJ and WD sure don't like each other and who is the LW cat who doesn't like anyone but himself".

Much like the Dead scene in the 80's, the AT is becoming a place where people who society cast off as a-holes are tolerated becuase of some idealist vision of the "community". Well, sometimes an a-hole is an a-hole is an a-hole and no amount of kindness or respect will change that. It will only be mocked and taken advantage of.

Way to go Lil Red. Now I feel bad for stickin' my nose in. You can take care of yourself just fine.

Alligator
07-19-2007, 14:56
It was civil when I was engaged in it. Warren was being very informative and interesting. No one was flaming, there was no reason for you to jump in like you did. Again, if the author of the thread is engaged and interested in the way the topic has drifted, leave it alone, like the first moderator had done.

Alligator, I'm through with this thread and I'm through with you trying to justify jumping on my post. Anyone can go back and read what was written and decide for themselves. If what you did was so necessary, then why did I have people jumping to my defense?

The new WB policies were enforced in order to stop the namecalling, swearing, and those that jump into threads specifically to harass an individual. Neither one of my posts that were in question fell into any of those categories. If they did, I wouldn't have started this thread.
I'm going to add a few more facts to the list.
1. The thread was locked down previously.
2. It was moderated as early as post 2, with at least one if not two posts deleted before that.
3. Jack's post between 9 and 10-deleted.
4. Gentle nudge from Dixi, #44.
5. A light touch from FD, #46.
6. You enter the thread at #49.
7. Some mild bashing by Fiddlehead in #56.
8. A little trolling from Warren in #62.
9. Requests to move off topic to different forum. #67, #69.
10. Pleasantries throughout from Warren thanking admin for editing the thread.

There were problems throughout the thread, you just refuse to see them.

I will add that I had a precedent previous for this heavier moderation with similar circumstances and there is also the WB user agreement which states
"Do not post inflammatory messages, spam, “off topic” posts, or hijack topics."

I don't have anything else to say to you at this time Lilred.

Nightwalker
07-19-2007, 15:50
Fine y'all want the flame wars, and Jack vs WD crap back.... so be it. I'm done. I'll have a heck of a lot more time to spend with my family anyway.

I'd appreciate it if you don't make up your mind just based on a few people. The BJ/WD stuff has been a terrible symptom of what's wrong, and I'm glad that you're doing something about it. It's just sickening.

You guys got on me a while back, and I totally cleaned up my act. Please keep doing what you're doing, and thanks for being here.

Marta
07-19-2007, 15:53
Besides stopping the namecalling can we also edit and delete any of Lone Wolf's posts that are designed to show everyone on Whiteblaze how cool he is?

I think LW is a hoot. His pointed and pithy comments almost never strike me as the kind of flaming that is vicious and mean-spirited. He does use off-color language, which is being damped down by the moderators. What he usually does I would classify as expressing an opinion without being insulting about it. I mean, who's going to get all worked up when someone says something like "Lekis are for weenies" or "Shelters suck?" (Sorry, I can't help myself--I have to capitalize and use punctuation.) It's an opinion, but the reader would have to be pretty sensitive to take it personally. FWIW, I use Lekis, sleep in shelters, and even (horrors!) treat my water.

My $0.02.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Nightwalker
07-19-2007, 15:54
Sounds like SNIVELLING to me!!!

Anybody wanna guess who this really is?

Folks, we're going to end up losing this place if we don't watch out. Cut it out.

Ewker
07-19-2007, 16:09
I think LW is a hoot. His pointed and pithy comments almost never strike me as the kind of flaming that is vicious and mean-spirited. He does use off-color language, which is being damped down by the moderators. What he usually does I would classify as expressing an opinion without being insulting about it. I mean, who's going to get all worked up when someone says something like "Lekis are for weenies" or "Shelters suck?" (Sorry, I can't help myself--I have to capitalize and use punctuation.) It's an opinion, but the reader would have to be pretty sensitive to take it personally. FWIW, I use Lekis, sleep in shelters, and even (horrors!) treat my water.

My $0.02.

Marta/Five-Leaf

a lot of times LW is posting what we are thinking but don't post :eek: sometimes it bother folks other times it doesn't :cool:

SassyWindsor
07-19-2007, 17:24
.......we're going to end up losing this place if we don't watch out..........


This also sounds like SNIVELING !!!!

Heater
07-19-2007, 17:37
This also sounds like SNIVELING !!!!

I think you should re-read ATTtoll's post in this thread and pay real close attention to paragraph 5.

mweinstone
07-19-2007, 17:44
borrrrring

Yahtzee
07-19-2007, 17:56
I think LW is a hoot. His pointed and pithy comments almost never strike me as the kind of flaming that is vicious and mean-spirited. He does use off-color language, which is being damped down by the moderators. What he usually does I would classify as expressing an opinion without being insulting about it. I mean, who's going to get all worked up when someone says something like "Lekis are for weenies" or "Shelters suck?" (Sorry, I can't help myself--I have to capitalize and use punctuation.) It's an opinion, but the reader would have to be pretty sensitive to take it personally. FWIW, I use Lekis, sleep in shelters, and even (horrors!) treat my water.

My $0.02.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Maybe I'm the only one who sensitive to LW's incessant negative postings. When he said "shelters suck" i got i the first time. After 3 times he's just adding negativity to the world.

Suppose you are a newbie and you ask about shelters and the first reply you get is LW's, which is probable based on his number of posts, are you saying that isn't going to impact that persons view of the AT? It's not that I give a hoot about WHAT LW says its just that he insists on saying the same thing over and over again. And it is always negative. I was like that. At 11.

But hey, if I'm the only one who doesn't appreciate LW's "you're an idiot and a pansy if you don't do it like me" postings I will cease my remarks but I will continue to flame him whenever he brings that crap unnecessarily into a thread.

Heater
07-19-2007, 17:59
borrrrring

::Sigh:: Take another toke. Read another verse. Go to church on Sunday and make it all better. Till then, save the "boring" dribble in a paper cup and mix it with ener-g for your next "escape" to lala land. :rolleyes:

Austexski - out. :cool:

Appalachian Tater
07-19-2007, 18:02
Maybe I'm the only one who sensitive to LW's incessant negative postings. When he said "shelters suck" i got i the first time. After 3 times he's just adding negativity to the world.

Suppose you are a newbie and you ask about shelters and the first reply you get is LW's, which is probable based on his number of posts, are you saying that isn't going to impact that persons view of the AT? It's not that I give a hoot about WHAT LW says its just that he insists on saying the same thing over and over again. And it is always negative. I was like that. At 11.

But hey, if I'm the only one who doesn't appreciate LW's "you're an idiot and a pansy if you don't do it like me" postings I will cease my remarks but I will continue to flame him whenever he brings that crap unnecessarily into a thread.

No, you're not the only one.

SassyWindsor
07-19-2007, 18:27
I think you should re-read ATTtoll's post in this thread and pay real close attention to paragraph 5.

I guess you mean "attroll" and not "ATTtoll"??? You "Musta notta gotta lotta sleep last night"???

Heater
07-19-2007, 18:36
I guess you mean "attroll" and not "ATTtoll"??? You "Musta notta gotta lotta sleep last night"???

Wow! Congratulations on catching heinous typo! :)
You get a GOLD star, Sassy.
:sun

Nightwalker
07-19-2007, 19:18
Wow! Congratulations on catching heinous typo! :)
You get a GOLD star, Sassy.
:sun

Sounds a lot like Steve Hiker, except he hasn't made any racist remarks yet.

dixicritter
07-19-2007, 19:25
Not exactly, but I do have the IP logged and this poster is definately not from the UK.

Marta
07-19-2007, 19:25
But hey, if I'm the only one who doesn't appreciate LW's "you're an idiot and a pansy if you don't do it like me" postings I will cease my remarks but I will continue to flame him whenever he brings that crap unnecessarily into a thread.

My take on Whiteblaze policy is that flaming is never the appropriate response to someone's postings. Never.

If someone says "Shelters suck," and you disagree, you might feel moved to respond, "Shelters rock!" But that's a whole different thing than flaming the shelter-hater.

Though I haven't tried it out myself--yet--I hear that there's this Ignore feature which allows you to not see the posts of people who routinely piss you off. Not reading posts you know are going to annoy you is another way to keep down the urge to flame.

Flaming is like shooting someone in the head--there may be extreme circumstances when it's necessary, but generally it is a really bad idea and just opens the door to a lot of nasty consequences.

Marta/Five-Leaf

Yahtzee
07-19-2007, 19:38
I would love to agree with you and at one pt. in my life I did. And you are probably right. But my sense is that the decent positive people of the world have got to start speaking up against the persistent negativity that exists. Self-righteousness is not enough, anymore. I know it is considered rolling in the mud with pigs, but if that is the only way to stop 'em from squealing then it has to be done. Much like Elizabeth Edwards recently vis a vis Ann Coulter. Someone has to say enough is enough. That is what I am doing with LW. I'm just saying "enough".

Skidsteer
07-19-2007, 19:41
Not exactly, but I do have the IP logged and this poster is definately not from the UK.

Big surprise there! ;)

Midway Sam
07-19-2007, 19:49
I would love to agree with you and at one pt. in my life I did. And you are probably right. But my sense is that the decent positive people of the world have got to start speaking up against the persistent negativity that exists. Self-righteousness is not enough, anymore. I know it is considered rolling in the mud with pigs, but if that is the only way to stop 'em from squealing then it has to be done. Much like Elizabeth Edwards recently vis a vis Ann Coulter. Someone has to say enough is enough. That is what I am doing with LW. I'm just saying "enough".

Yatzee... I know where you're coming from, but the forum needs personality. LW is a great personality who adds a lot of character AND helpful information to the site. If everyone was "civil" this place would be sterile. We don't need an "AT Wikipedia", we need a community of enthusiasts willing to share info and knowledge.

We also need to be able to poke a little good natured fun at each other from time to time.

dixicritter
07-19-2007, 19:54
You know what absolutely astounds me? How all these accusations can be flung in my direction without anyone ever bothering to ever ask me what my philosophy is regarding this site, what I stand for, or where my heart lies. Y'all assume things about me without ever having taken the time to get to know me.

So what is my philosophy you ask? Sure I'll tell you. That WB is for every hiker no matter the mileage on their footwear. That I will stick up for EVERY member's right to post without being harassed or attacked no matter who they are. And that I try my hardest to make WB the best damned AT site on the web.

That's it, and for the last 18 months (at the very least) that's what I've tried to do. I've poured my heart and soul into this website. I've worked on it even when I really should've been taking time off to preserve my eyesight, something not many people here know about. But like Rock said no good deed goes unpunished I guess.

Instead I get called Wingfoot, or Nazi, or some other names that I've chosen to forget now. Been told REPEATEDLY that I'm single-handedly turning WB into another Trailplace, sucking the fun right out of this site, oh let's see what else have I been responsible for? Gosh who knows, but I'm sure it wasn't good whatever it was. Oh yeah, let's not forget how many times I've been told that SGT Rock would let xyz happen, and oh by the way "why don't you just go away" so we can do whatever it is we want.

Someone in this thread said that they thought this site was all full of adults, well guess what, it's not. There are several active posters right now that are under the age of 18. We've had Boy and Girl Scout leaders express to us that there was NO way they'd recommend any of their troops visit our site due to the language used here, and frankly I don't blame them one bit. We've tried over and over to ask y'all to self moderate on that, but you won't, and guess what it is even in the site rules.

Was I angry last night? YES. Wouldn't you be when you felt you were being attacked for the millionth time just for caring. However more importantly I was hurt deeply. Because as I said, all I've done is care about this site and try to make it the best it could be for the members.

Do I have trail experience? Yes I do. Am I a hiker? Yes I am. Got any other questions.... ask me.

Chaco Taco
07-19-2007, 20:01
This is just wrong. You dont call ANYONE a Nazi. And you dont call someone that takes time out of their time with children to help build a place that teaches people like me, who is new at all this, how to make their time out in the woods more enjoyable. The AT saved my life and Im not going to let anyone gang up on the mods because they make this place what it is, so watch the language and people bashing. I said it earlier, it sucks to hear so much negativity while Im on the trail about this site and some of the characters involved. Help people like Dixie and Rock who sacrifice so much time and effort and what not to build something to help us. You baddies should all be ashamed of yourselves!
Dixie, please dont go!

Blissful
07-19-2007, 20:14
I can't wait to meet all of you in person. What you see on these forums is NOT necessarily what you get. These are mere words on a screen. Meet the real people instead. I got to meet Lone Wolf this year in Damascus. He told me he knows he stirs up stuff on WB. Seemed even sheepish about it. But he's a neat guy and we enjoyed hearing about his life and his plans.

It's true though that there are hikers in the hiking communty who are turned off by WB. Several hikers I met on the trail said the site was too controversial. They couldn't get past the bickering. I, however, tried to steer them to the incredibly useful things about the site. And puffed it up where I could. But obviously the negativity is affecting the community which is sad. But I have seen great changes on WB since I have been here. The great welcome with open arms of new members. The useful info. Without WB I truly believe I would not have gotten as far as I did on my hike this year (with still 630 miles to go - hopefully starting next week if my ankle cooperates, all the way to the big K in Sept!)

To the great moderators and others who maintain the site, thank you all!!! You rock! Speaking of which, my son Paul Bunyan can't wait to do some trail magic for you, Sg Rock, next year. He's mentioned it several times. And I am trying to think if you were the one I met in the Smokies in March who told me it's all downhill from there to Maine. (I know you were on the trail that day because you signed one of the registers). Wish I knew if I had run into you. :)

And a Hi to Fishinfred, we met you long ago in March near Albert Mtn, I think, when you were down there with your trail angel goodies (one of the few days you were there).

I know Paul B. also met many of you at Trail Days. Also, many thanks to those who tirelessly check on our progress and are rooting for us this year.

And of course - I would be amiss not to mention our good friend of WB and supporter Shades of Gray whom we met twice while in PA with info on water and other important trail info. A true WB'er and hiker.

Just some of the real people of WB...

woodsy
07-19-2007, 20:37
Well i have to give credit where credit is due. And that is to Dixicritter, Attroll and Sgt Rock for tolerating some of the BS from some of the posters here, me included on a couple occasions. If I were a mod here being called names and putting up with arguments from posters about he said she said crap I would just banish these posters for life. This is a private website paid for by private individuals which means it doesn't have to be a public free for all. Thanks to the moderators for tolerating so much and for all the time they donate to this site in order to maintain it's original intent. I for one have learned much here!

Heater
07-19-2007, 20:39
Also, many thanks to those who tirelessly check on our progress and are rooting for us this year.

If you cannot make it back, will PaulB continue? Does he want to continue without his hiking partner? Just being nosey.
:)

dixicritter
07-19-2007, 21:01
Thank you Dixie for all you have done in the past. I probably appreciate it more then anyone and I hope you and Rock both reconsider and stay on as Administrators.

You are welcome attroll, as I stated in my earlier post it has all been for the good of the site in my mind. With that and our conversation in mind as well as your request here, I guess I'm sticking around.

Chaco Taco
07-19-2007, 21:09
You are welcome attroll, as I stated in my earlier post it has all been for the good of the site in my mind. With that and our conversation in mind as well as your request here, I guess I'm sticking around.
Thank you :banana

Marta
07-19-2007, 21:44
You are welcome attroll, as I stated in my earlier post it has all been for the good of the site in my mind. With that and our conversation in mind as well as your request here, I guess I'm sticking around.

Thank you very much. I look forward to reading many more of your witty and wise observations.

Marta/Five-Leaf

dixicritter
07-19-2007, 21:50
Thank you :banana

Careful, you'll get in trouble over that nana. (just not by me I like the little guy) ;) Oh and You're welcome. :)


Thank you very much. I look forward to reading many more of your witty and wise observations.

Marta/Five-Leaf


Oh great! No pressure there. LOL. You're welcome too Marta. Can't wait to see ya again sometime. :)

serenityrich
07-19-2007, 22:11
I guys. I've learned so much in preperation of my AT hike from this site. When life stresses become more that I want to deal with for the moment. Whiteblaze.net is where I go for a break. Very entertaining... :D

Just want to thank all of you for the time you spend here sharing your love of the trail.

Ender
07-19-2007, 23:30
I guess I'm sticking around.

Yeay! :sun :sun

Jimmers
07-20-2007, 00:09
Now that news deserves nanas!:banana:banana:banana:banana

Tha Wookie
07-20-2007, 00:44
Got any other questions.... ask me.

Don't you think that %(#*@ boy scouts and girl scouts should be outside anyway?

:D glad to hear you're hanging around, Dixi.

The site will chill out, burn out like a flame.... right folks?

Ya'll give our sister some support now

Blue Jay
07-20-2007, 02:28
Well if you think it can't be worked out I had something to say to BJ anyways.

Well then Sticky, it's play ball time. Power dumbass? There's no power in being a mod. It's about service. I helped out and stepped up because admin asked for help. There are no perks to moderating the news, the hooking up forum, nor the ride board you whack job. I don't know where you get your ideas from but those programs you hear in your head are not sent from aliens. If you never noticed, I do enjoy bashing crackheads like you, but I was willing to forgo that in the hopes of ending some long-standing, festering, trolling. Not you per se, because every once in a while I think, he can't be all that bad, there are occasional moments of lucidity. But rather another poster, FOS thief whose initials adorn lubrication cans. So if this is the way you like it BJ, I'll be more than happy to serve it to you:cool: .

To have you in charge of anything, especially name calling, is just plain sad. You are not even aware of what a troll is. Please crawl back under the rock from which you came.

Nightwalker
07-20-2007, 02:49
Was I angry last night? YES. Wouldn't you be when you felt you were being attacked for the millionth time just for caring. However more importantly I was hurt deeply. Because as I said, all I've done is care about this site and try to make it the best it could be for the members.

Do I have trail experience? Yes I do. Am I a hiker? Yes I am. Got any other questions.... ask me.

Please don't go away. You're a big part of what this site is. I'm really sorry that you were hurt, especially since I did something similar in the past.

Yahtzee
07-20-2007, 02:57
C'mon Blue Jay, read the tea leaves. Things were moving in a slightly more positive direction. I know getting in the last word is a compulsion (I think most of us share it) but the crap was blowing over. Just let it go. Even if you are right.

Peace.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-21-2007, 20:20
Holy Moly. I leave town to take care of my mom and aunt and a privy hits the fan.

Dixie, it is hereby decreed that I will hunt you down like a dog and sink my pointy little dino teeth into your toes until you return if you even think about quitting again.

Not sure who call Dixie a Nazi, but I've got a gaint dino tail with your name(s) on it. It's a great deal - most people have to pay millions to go into orbit; my tail will send you for free.

I'm a moderator on this site -- all of the admins and moderators are people just like you. They have feelings and they get tired of dealing with the same crap over and over. They have good days and bad days. They have a limit to what they can stand before they blowout. They are human and they aren't always going to make decisions you like - sometimes I don't even like my decisions, but I try to be fair and even-handed. All of the people who moderate the site try to the same.

Hindsight is 20 / 20 and I can assure you there are times when all moderators wish they could turn back the hands of time. It is hard to read a thread and know exactly what someone is trying to do or say. The other clues that help in face-to-face conversations are missing. Sometimes something that wasn't meant to be snarky comes across as snarky. Sometimes a person says something snarky to a friend as a joke, but the moderators may well not know the posters are friends.

Moderating is a tough job. We do the best we can. Please be gentle with us. We are people just like you.

Now join me for a few rounds of Kumba-ya.

Marta
07-21-2007, 20:26
Oh great! No pressure there. LOL. You're welcome too Marta. Can't wait to see ya again sometime.

No pressure. Wit and wisdom come naturally to you, so you just have to be yourself.:)

Maybe you'll be at the fall hammock gathering? I'm heading out tomorrow to the JMT. I should be back by the middle of August.

All the best to you and your family--
Marta/Five-Leaf

SawnieRobertson
07-21-2007, 20:51
Wow! I really missed something, and maybe I should be glad. You folks sound like people in Estes Park, experiencing serious cabin fever as the winter winds down. Did this happen while White Blaze was down???? Well, if it caused it, I'm mad because I missed WB yesterday and until a little while ago today. I like it here, folks, and, if some put a dash of cayenne pepper in their posts, I can find that amusing or use the mouse to move on to the next thread. It's cool in SW Virginia tonight. Would be an awesome time to be sleeping trailside. Today though I helped bury/say goodbye to one of the landowners who gave up property that you walk on, VA 670 to Partnership Shelter. Particularly because of the continued hostility and bickering that we have had to deal with in Tennessee, I appreciate his determination to take the high road in cooperating with the government about his land. He could have chosen to grumble about it for the rest of his life (87 years). We can choose to grumble and grouse here, or we can enjoy and respect each other. It's a choice, always a choice.--Kinnickinic (only slightly more than 400 miles)

SawnieRobertson
07-21-2007, 20:53
Wow! I really missed something, and maybe I should be glad. You folks sound like people in Estes Park, experiencing serious cabin fever as the winter winds down. Did this happen while White Blaze was down???? Well, if it caused it, I'm mad because I missed WB yesterday and until a little while ago today. I like it here, folks, and, if some put a dash of cayenne pepper in their posts, I can find that amusing or use the mouse to move on to the next thread. It's cool in SW Virginia tonight. Would be an awesome time to be sleeping trailside. Today though I helped bury/say goodbye to one of the landowners who gave up property that you walk on, VA 670 to Partnership Shelter. Particularly because of the continued hostility and bickering that we have had to deal with in Tennessee, I appreciate his determination to take the high road in cooperating with the government about his land. He could have chosen to grumble about it for the rest of his life (87 years). We can choose to grumble and grouse here, or we can enjoy and respect each other. It's a choice, always a choice.--Kinnickinic (only slightly more than 400 miles)

HOW DID MY POST LAND HERE IN THIS THREAD??? I was responding to something between LilRed and Alligator and Austex and Minnesota Smith and who knows how many others.--Kinnickinic

SawnieRobertson
07-21-2007, 21:01
HOW DID MY POST LAND HERE IN THIS THREAD??? I was responding to something between LilRed and Alligator and Austex and Minnesota Smith and who knows how many others.--Kinnickinic

Oh, I see. My 'puter's just wacko tonight.--Kinnickinic

Lugnut
07-22-2007, 01:09
Dixie, I'd like to apologize for my Trailplace comment. It was not directed toward you or any one else. When posts went from no limits to the hammer down in only a couple days with no explanation it just seemed like the thing to say. The blame rests entirely with the Miller Brewing Co. ;)
You, Rock and Rick are appreciated by all of us. Thanks!

dixicritter
07-22-2007, 08:28
Don't you think that %(#*@ boy scouts and girl scouts should be outside anyway?



That's right Wook, Let's kick those scouts outside where they belong! ;)


Please don't go away. You're a big part of what this site is. I'm really sorry that you were hurt, especially since I did something similar in the past.

Don't fret, I can't leave.... Troll won't let me. Besides all was forgiven on your part a long time ago.


Holy Moly. I leave town to take care of my mom and aunt and a privy hits the fan.

Dixie, it is hereby decreed that I will hunt you down like a dog and sink my pointy little dino teeth into your toes until you return if you even think about quitting again.


Now join me for a few rounds of Kumba-ya.

Yes Ma'am! Got it!


No pressure. Wit and wisdom come naturally to you, so you just have to be yourself.:)

Maybe you'll be at the fall hammock gathering? I'm heading out tomorrow to the JMT. I should be back by the middle of August.

All the best to you and your family--
Marta/Five-Leaf

Rock and I did talk about taking the boys to that gathering. We just might see ya there!

All the best to you too!!


Dixie, I'd like to apologize for my Trailplace comment. It was not directed toward you or any one else. When posts went from no limits to the hammer down in only a couple days with no explanation it just seemed like the thing to say. The blame rests entirely with the Miller Brewing Co. ;)
You, Rock and Rick are appreciated by all of us. Thanks!


Water under the bridge Lugnut! LOL @ the miller brewing co comment that's a good one, explains a lot. :sun

Lilred
07-22-2007, 12:32
I would like to publicly apologize to Admin and everyone else for causing such a problem. I in no way meant to slam admin. I don't know what came over me. Can I plead temporary insanity? Pre-menopausal hormone imbalance? Alien abduction? Seems the only time I open my mouth lately is to change feet.

I guess it was my turn to be an ......., well you know......
I'll go crawl back under my mossy rock now.

warren doyle
07-25-2007, 16:29
Thanks for sticking with WB and for your efforts to help make WB less mean-spirited.

leeki pole
07-25-2007, 17:18
thanks for what you do...much appreciated!

"I wish I was in the land of Cotton, old times there are not forgotten
Look away, look away, look away, Dixieland" .... from a Rebel....:)

Krewzer
07-27-2007, 09:37
Hey Dixi, I see you've got your hands pretty full here and I'd like to help out.

The Swineheifer twins up in New Market, Al. just happen to be out of work and jail. They're famous up there for gettin' to the point and settlin' disputes. Their Daddy owes me a favor...it was a small thing concerning, shall we say, a "lost hog" in the back seat of his buick late one night and a few hundred pounds of corn meal and sugar.

BTW, it's probably not a good idea to call them yourself....and for "heavens sake" don't let them talk you into comin' over, especially if your neighbors have any half-way decent looking huntin' dogs.

dixicritter
07-27-2007, 09:51
I would like to publicly apologize to Admin and everyone else for causing such a problem. I in no way meant to slam admin. I don't know what came over me. Can I plead temporary insanity? Pre-menopausal hormone imbalance? Alien abduction? Seems the only time I open my mouth lately is to change feet.

I guess it was my turn to be an ......., well you know......
I'll go crawl back under my mossy rock now.

I was hoping we could let this whole thread just drop away. Water under the bridge. :)


Thanks for sticking with WB and for your efforts to help make WB less mean-spirited.

You're Welcome.


thanks for what you do...much appreciated!

"I wish I was in the land of Cotton, old times there are not forgotten
Look away, look away, look away, Dixieland" .... from a Rebel....:)

Thank you leeki! That made me smile.


Hey Dixi, I see you've got your hands pretty full here and I'd like to help out.

The Swineheifer twins up in New Market, Al. just happen to be out of work and jail. They're famous up there for gettin' to the point and settlin' disputes. Their Daddy owes me a favor...it was a small thing concerning, shall we say, a "lost hog" in the back seat of his buick late one night and a few hundred pounds of corn meal and sugar.

BTW, it's probably not a good idea to call them yourself....and for "heavens sake" don't let them talk you into comin' over, especially if your neighbors have any half-way decent looking huntin' dogs.


I'll keep the twins in mind and let ya know. LOL.

Now I think it is time to close this thread once and for all. Say goodnight Gracie.