walking poles, creeks, pepperspray and mapdannas

[brit4jesus]

hey all,
im starting to plan a 2009 hike ( i know its a long way off) i have just a few quick questions,

hiking poles: walmart sells light weight alu ones for $10.00 are they usefull or will they become dead weight?

second: are there creeks and streams along the trail to get water friom ?

has anyone have any opinions about taking peperspray or stun guns for personal protection/bears (no stunguns for the bears)

and ive heard about these things called mapdannas they have sections of the at printed on them dose anyone knowwhere i can get them from are they any good/ readable would love your imput on these things
thanks

[hopefulhiker]

walking poles are really useful, even the cheap ones from Walmart

you can drink from some streams, bring a filter or chemical treatment..

forget the pepper spray, stun gun, guns. or big knives,

Mapdannas are pretty good, I carried the set. You can get them from Antigravity Gear online i think...

[Monkeyboy]

has anyone have any opinions about taking peperspray or stun guns for personal protection/bears (no stunguns for the bears)




A hiking instructor for Boy Scouts once told me the way to identify bear scat is that it is the ones with bells in it that smell like peppers......

[Pedalsndirt]

I believe hiking poles used properly are totally usefull in all situations. Ups, Downs, Flats, Slippery areas, Rocky terrain etc. you name it.

Get the cheap ones and go to the Leki website, there is some good information there on what they call Nordic Walking. Works awesome when applied to hiking. imho

=D

[Monkeyboy]

Saw hiking poles at Walmart for $10.00 each.

[Time To Fly 97]

Hiking poles are very important and I recommend Lekis. The poles will take 15% of the weight off your knees, give you more of a full body exercise, helpful if you are about to pull a muscle, used for tarp poles at camp to save weight, great for river fording, etc. etc. Lekis are a little more expensive, but they will hold up and you won't have to replace them. I'd take a look at outfitters like campmor.com for real gear over WalMart shtuff(IMHO). Whatever you choose for poles, I think features like suspension and telescoping sections are really helpful (better for elbows, better to stow when not in use).

Of course there are streams to get water : ) However, some areas are dryer than others. Since staying hydrated should be one of your priorities, you should frequently check a map to guage how much water you should carry. I "camel up" at water sources so I don't have to carry as much water weight - at the same time I am crystal clear on how far I will hike until the next water source.

I took a very small thing of mace with me, but never used it. You are surrounded by truly great people the whole time. It is also a little ridiculous to attempt to stop a bear with mace : ) I think it is illegal to carry mace - so be careful there if you decide to go with it.

Not sure about mapdannas. Go with earth tones - they attract less mesquitos.

Happy hiking!

TTF

[rhjanes]

Visit Amazon.com for some books from past thru-hikers. AWOL on the AT is good and is recently written. Model-T, his first book is good, Bare Foot Sisters, Postcards book is great (He was doing the PCT this year, but had to leave due to family issues). etc.

[oldfivetango]

I would recommend at least a walking stick that is stout enough with
a pointy end that is capable of at least inflicting injury to a dog.
Knives under 3 inches are usually legal.Guns are legal only if you have
permits and are really not practical.Pepper spray may or may not be
an option depending on whether or not it is too windy or effective etc.
In any event,don't go out there totally defenseless unless you want to
be a victim for a predator of the four or two legged variety.:D
Oldfivetango

[Lilred]

yes on the hiking poles, although I don't know how longlasting ten dollar poles will be. Leki is more expensive, but they have a lifetime warranty. Bend a pole and Leki will ship you new one. Can't beat their customer service.

pepper spray, stun guns No.

I have a mapdanna, and yes it is very informative, but mine became more of a conversation piece than anything else. Kind of expensive for a bandana. If that is all you are going to use in lieu of maps, you should do fine with the info that is on them.

Good luck with your hike.

[Rainbow_Brite]

My hiking partner Mt. Dew used cheap hiking poles fro Bass Pro Outlet (they were $15 a piece). He made it all the way through most of Pennsylvania before one of them broke. So you'd probably need at least two pairs of the cheap ones to finish the trail. I love my Leki's, and consider them indispensable. =)

[wilconow]

In addition to taking this good advice in response to your questions, make sure you go on some backpacking trips. That's the best preparation you can get.

[weary]

Start with the White Blaze articles. (Go to "Home" and you will find them. Topics under "Thu hike advice" include
> Physical Preparations
> Basic Advice For Newbies
> Inexpensive Thru-hike
> River Crossing Safety Tips
> Things to leave behind
> Suggestions, to do differently
> Datto's AT Thru-hiking tips
> Hiking Rates, by sections
» Gear
> Backpack Comparison Chart
> Cheap gear - how to go cheap
» Tips and Tricks of the trade
> Knots
> Photography
> Navagation tips
> Trail tricks / Words of Wisdom, etc."

Then join the Appalachian Trail Conservancy and get their packet of basic information on AT hiking.

Water is available in streams and springs. Some filter water they find, or treat it with chemicals. Some don't. It doesn't seem to make much difference.

I carried one light weight wooden pole, an alder sapling I found where it had been cut by a trail maintainer. I've since made other poles with saplings I've cut in the woods. I find two poles a nuisance. I like to keep one hand free. Your wooden pole should not weigh more than 9-10 ounces.

A single wooden pole provides all the protection you need on the trail. If you are lucky you will see a bear -- usually the rear end of a bear as it escapes into the woods. Ugly dogs are dogs that have been abused. Waving a stick at them causes most to run away. Nothing you carry will discourage two-legged predators. They are not in the habit of warning you in advance. They just sneak around and do their thing. Luckily they are very rare. In 60 years of wandering the trail, I've yet to see one. Well, there was a grey jay once that stole some of my GORP.

Weary

[veteran]

Mapdanna

http://www.antigravitygear.com/products.php?cat=78

[brit4jesus]

yeah i definatly want to do some over night hikes , where can i go for that , im in pa and i dont want to do any trail as that will sort of spoil it for me any sugestions?

[wilconow]

yeah i definatly want to do some over night hikes , where can i go for that , im in pa and i dont want to do any trail as that will sort of spoil it for me any sugestions?

http://www.pahikes.com/

[jrwiesz]

There are four versions/sections available.

https://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39140335&memberId=12500226

This site is also a great option for other reasonably priced gear.:sun

[Pokey2006]

I'll be different and say that, hey, by all means bring pepperspray, if it'll ease your mind. Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it. As a girl who hikes alone, personally I think it'd be really dumb and foolish not to carry it, or something equivalent to use as a defensive weapon. You never know when you might need it.

Water is along the way -- get good maps and a guidebook to help you plan.

Hiking poles, well, I'm a fan of the Wal-Mart ones. They're cheap and do the trick. I never understood why anyone would spend more than $20 for a pair of hiking sticks. I do recommend some kind of poles. They help you keep your balance, take a load off your feet and knees and keep your hands from going numb on flat stretches.

Good luck with your planning! Once you learn your way around the site, you'll find that it's easy to get all your questions answered on Whiteblaze!

[oldfivetango]

Start with the White Blaze articles. (Go to "Home" and you will find them. Topics under "Thu hike advice" include
> Physical Preparations
> Basic Advice For Newbies
> Inexpensive Thru-hike
> River Crossing Safety Tips
> Things to leave behind
> Suggestions, to do differently
> Datto's AT Thru-hiking tips
> Hiking Rates, by sections
» Gear
> Backpack Comparison Chart
> Cheap gear - how to go cheap
» Tips and Tricks of the trade
> Knots
> Photography
> Navagation tips
> Trail tricks / Words of Wisdom, etc."

Then join the Appalachian Trail Conservancy and get their packet of basic information on AT hiking.

Water is available in streams and springs. Some filter water they find, or treat it with chemicals. Some don't. It doesn't seem to make much difference.

I carried one light weight wooden pole, an alder sapling I found where it had been cut by a trail maintainer. I've since made other poles with saplings I've cut in the woods. I find two poles a nuisance. I like to keep one hand free. Your wooden pole should not weigh more than 9-10 ounces.

A single wooden pole provides all the protection you need on the trail. If you are lucky you will see a bear -- usually the rear end of a bear as it escapes into the woods. Ugly dogs are dogs that have been abused. Waving a stick at them causes most to run away. Nothing you carry will discourage two-legged predators. They are not in the habit of warning you in advance. They just sneak around and do their thing. Luckily they are very rare. In 60 years of wandering the trail, I've yet to see one. Well, there was a grey jay once that stole some of my GORP.

Weary

Gee Weary,
I must have missed something.Gee,what WAS I thinking?
I forgot that "nothing you can do will discourage two legged predators.
They just sneak around and do their thing."
So nobody should have any means of self defense?Like,hey
man,resistance is futile right?So just let anybody that wants to just use
you for a doormat?Is that the line of reasoning here?
Anybody that subscribes to that line of reasoning is absolutely
DELUSIONAL.Be prepared,besides,it's the Scouts motto.(along with being
kind,brave,clean,and reverent):D
And for you ladies out there-they make powerful stungun
pens now that also double as a fine LED flashlight and pack quite a
wallop.
Oldfivetango

[hopefulhiker]

On the use of pepper spray or a stun gun...

I have a question.. If you are out on the trail, miles from any road, and you have a confrontation with an evildoer and you use pepper spray or a stun gun, what do you do then?

In many areas there is no cell signal and many places are out of earshot... These weapons might be more effective in an urban setting. I mean it seems to me that if you used these weapons then there is a good chance of just aggravating the assailant.

A friend of mine who is a weapon dealer lent me a large steel knife in plastic sheath that would mount on the front of the pack for quick access. I decided not to take it. I took one of those little tiny swiss army knives with the LED built in...

Remember that with a pack you are not that free to move quickly... I still think the best defensive weapon one can take on the trail is your brain....

[weary]

Gee Weary,
I must have missed something.Gee,what WAS I thinking?
I forgot that "nothing you can do will discourage two legged predators.
They just sneak around and do their thing."
So nobody should have any means of self defense?Like,hey
man,resistance is futile right?So just let anybody that wants to just use
you for a doormat?Is that the line of reasoning here?
Anybody that subscribes to that line of reasoning is absolutely
DELUSIONAL.Be prepared,besides,it's the Scouts motto.(along with being
kind,brave,clean,and reverent):D
And for you ladies out there-they make powerful stungun
pens now that also double as a fine LED flashlight and pack quite a
wallop.
Oldfivetango
I suppose there may be dumb two-legged predators who announce in advance their intentions so you will have plenty of time to reach for your weapon of choice. But they are far fewer than the wise and sneaky kind, I suspect, you know those that just come up from behind and bash you in the head, or grab you in a neck hold.

I didn't say resistance is futile. Just that few predators step aside long enough for you to use a weapon.

Somehow in all the posts I've read on this and other forums, I've yet to hear from anyone who thwarted a predator with a weapon. Have you?

However, everyone should carry whatever makes them happy or comfortable, regardless of whether it's useful.

Weary

[oldfivetango]

I suppose there may be dumb two-legged predators who announce in advance their intentions so you will have plenty of time to reach for your weapon of choice. But they are far fewer than the wise and sneaky kind, I suspect, you know those that just come up from behind and bash you in the head, or grab you in a neck hold.

I didn't say resistance is futile. Just that few predators step aside long enough for you to use a weapon.

Somehow in all the posts I've read on this and other forums, I've yet to hear from anyone who thwarted a predator with a weapon. Have you?

However, everyone should carry whatever makes them happy or comfortable, regardless of whether it's useful.

Weary

Have I ever thwarted a predator with a weapon? Yes,but not on the
AT and it is a LONG story.Fortuneately nobody got hurt and I did not
have to use my weapon although I was prepared to do so.

For your information,one of my former classmates was raped and
murdered here in Georgia on a benign little bike trail just over a year
ago.Of course her rapist/murderer did not announce his intentions.He
just acted.She reacted.Apparently she fought so viciously that he was
bloody and scratched to the point that his own family turned him over
to the police.She was a brilliant young lady when I knew her-too bad
she did not have any pepperspray or a stungun with which to resist her
attacker or it may have had a different outcome.

Everybody needs to have a plan in the event that something awful
is visited by upon them by another and it is totally irresponsible for
anyone to suggest otherwise.
Oldfivetango

[Uncle Silly]

Not sure about mapdannas. Go with earth tones - they attract less mesquitos.

i always thought we wanted to attract the mesquite-os... so's you can properly flavor your campfire-grilled T-bone :D

[bigcranky]

Hi, Joe,

First, :welcome to Whiteblaze. Please ignore the bickering over the usual controversial topics. (Try asking about cell phones next :-? )

By all means start walking right now. Walk during your lunch hour, walk after work, walk on weekends. Do some overnight backpacking trips, starting with a local trail. You'll spend the best part of every day on the trail walking, so the more you do now, the better.

If you don't have any gear right now, you can probably rent a backpack, tent, and sleeping bag from a local outfitter. This is better than buying gear and then wanting something lighter/better/etc. You can get a lot of information poking around the articles on Whiteblaze, and by asking specific questions here on the forum. You may be able to take classes and trips from your local outfitter, too. Once you've had a few weekend trips, you'll be in a better position to start buying gear.

As for your questions, poles are a good idea, there is usually plenty of water along the Trail, some people bring pepper spray but I've never seen a stun gun, and the Mapdanas are cool, but not really a substitute for a Databook or an ALDHA Companion.

Finally, if you can get out on the Appalachian Trail for a hike, do it. It won't ruin the experience. Plenty of people keep hiking the same parts of the Trail, or go back and do repeat thru-hikes. I often hike the closest part of the Trail to my house, and it's always different.

[weary]

....Everybody needs to have a plan in the event that something awful
is visited by upon them by another and it is totally irresponsible for
anyone to suggest otherwise.
Oldfivetango
It's a choice all of us have to make. We can spend our lives carrying around things to protect us from the unlikely, and avoiding new places and new experiences, Or one can choose to live.

I tended over the years to choose the latter. Admittedly death is less traumatic for those who have never chosen to live. (Not an original thought. Henry T. said much the same 150 years ago.)

Weary

[dperry]

It's a choice all of us have to make. We can spend our lives carrying around things to protect us from the unlikely, and avoiding new places and new experiences, Or one can choose to live.


Or one can carry things around for protection and go to new places and experience new things. One might even enjoy living more, since knowing that one has the tools with which to deal with problems tends to be relaxing.

That having been said, brit4jesus, I wouldn't count on pepper spray being effective against bears. By the time the bear gets close enough for the spray to have any effect, it's almost certainly too late already. Short of carrying a shotgun or high-powered rifle (which, in turn, opens up a whole other set of problems that you have to deal with), the best tactic is probably avoidance. Make a lot of noise as you hike; cook in a different place from where you camp; make sure to bag your food, etc.

For problems with humans, it might be more worthwhile, if for no other reason than to give you some time and space to get away from a person and to weaken their ability to threaten you. However, I'd still be prepared to use some other method of defense as well, llike swatting them with your hiking poles or taking a martial-arts course or something. Of course, if the assailant has a gun, you're screwed anyway.

The other point is that by far the most dangerous part of your thru-hike is the drive to and from the trail.

[dperry]

My hiking partner Mt. Dew used cheap hiking poles fro Bass Pro Outlet (they were $15 a piece). He made it all the way through most of Pennsylvania before one of them broke. So you'd probably need at least two pairs of the cheap ones to finish the trail. I love my Leki's, and consider them indispensable. =)

I use the Wal-Mart specials and so far my only complaint is that the rubber tips come off and get lost way too easily. In fairness, I haven't used them for two thousand miles or fallen on one or anything yet. In unfairness, Mt. Dew's experience suggests that you could get through the whole trail with two or three sets, and at those prices it's still cheaper than the Leki's.

[Lilred]

In unfairness, Mt. Dew's experience suggests that you could get through the whole trail with two or three sets, and at those prices it's still cheaper than the Leki's.

It may still be cheaper than Leki's, but Leki will replace or fix your poles for free for as long as you own them. At traildays, 2005, a friend of mine had $75 of parts and labor done on his poles for free. If your pole breaks on the trail, you'll have to get to the nearest Wal-Mart to replace them, (and hope they have them) or with Leki, you just have to get to a phone, and the new pole will be waiting for you at the next town. If you're gonna do a thru, and never hike again, or never have a use for hiking poles again, the cheap is better. If you plan to continue hiking in your lifetime, Leki's may be better. Customer service like that is worth it to me.

[oldfivetango]

It's a choice all of us have to make. We can spend our lives carrying around things to protect us from the unlikely, and avoiding new places and new experiences, Or one can choose to live.

I tended over the years to choose the latter. Admittedly death is less traumatic for those who have never chosen to live. (Not an original thought. Henry T. said much the same 150 years ago.)

Weary

So being prepared to defend oneself means that someone has
lost part of the essence of a full life experience.Ahh,what an
interesting hypothesis!:D
Oldfivetango

[weary]

So being prepared to defend oneself means that someone has
lost part of the essence of a full life experience.Ahh,what an
interesting hypothesis!:D
Oldfivetango
When someone tells me that a weapon carried on the trail saved their life I'll ponder carrying something more than my 10 ounce wooden walking stick, which has managed to survive 3,000 trail miles, despite having been used as a club to break off hundreds of dead spruce and fir branches.

But even then I may not bother, having never been threatened in 74 years of wandering in the woods, most often by myself.

Weary

[Quiet Chuck]

Just 2 pages of great information. I gess i'll put in my 5 cents worth in.
Being an "Old Timey" hiker I favor my trusty 5' hickory walking stick with a lanyard on top. It's been a trusted companion for many a mile. Aside from balance & stream crossings it makes a formidable weapon. The only time I had to use it as such was to keep a couple of domestic dogs at bay, also moved 2 rattlers off the trail. Then again gess you could do the same with trecking poles.

As for people, most you find on the trail are quite human. To me it's all how you conduct yourself.

As for maps I favor the ones that come with the ATC Guidebooks, good detail & info. Bandannas have many uses least of witch is a map.

In short do the research, do some planning, Get out there! Enjoy. My best to you in life, and on your hike.Keep us posted.

Quiet Chuck


"Strive to be human"

[shelterbuilder]

I have to agree with Quiet Chuck - a 5' hickory stick makes a great walking "companion". While it's not adjustable for height, a little work with a knife and sandpaper puts the "grip" just where it should be. Great for "doggie defense", moving snakes, tarp pole - and nothing's more natural than wood. It just seems like it belongs on the trail.

[Scrollner]

I've used the "cheap" Wal-Mart poles for about 1200 miles so far, mostly along trails in Florida but also through the Shenandoah National Park this past summer. So far no issues with them. My knees feel great, which is the biggest benefit to me.

[rickb]

despite having been used as a club to break off hundreds of dead spruce and fir branches.

Weary

Weary, Weary, Weary.... From the experts at LNT:
"Firewood And Cleanup: Standing trees, dead or alive, are home to birds and insects, so leave them intact. Fallen trees also provide bird and animal shelter, increase water holding capacity of the soil, and recycle nutrients back into the environment through decomposition. Stripping branches from standing or fallen trees also detracts from an area's natural appearance" http://www.lnt.org/programs/lnt7/campfires.html

[weary]

Weary, Weary, Weary.... From the experts at LNT:
"Firewood And Cleanup: Standing trees, dead or alive, are home to birds and insects, so leave them intact. Fallen trees also provide bird and animal shelter, increase water holding capacity of the soil, and recycle nutrients back into the environment through decomposition. Stripping branches from standing or fallen trees also detracts from an area's natural appearance" http://www.lnt.org/programs/lnt7/campfires.html
Well Rick. During the time I've been active in the group, our town land trust has protected around 800 acres. Most of these acres are open to public access. From time to time we build trails on these lands -- around 18 miles at last count, though some loop over into the domain of friendly neighbors.

I fight to preserve natural woodlands -- and to allow damaged woodlands to recover. Sadly in Maine a willingness to allow a woodland to be wild is considered wasteful and the sign of being an "environmentalist." Real men chop down trees.

Anyway, in my effort to allow the vegetation on at least a few acres to live and die as nature would allow, I've found that it is important to have allies. One way to achieve allies is to invite people to visit and enjoy a natural forest. This requires trails. As I scout harmless trail locations, quite often I run into the dead branches near the bottom of otherwise healthy spruce and fir trees. My "trail building" consists mostly whacking off those dead lower branches with a 10-ounce alder walking stick to ease passage by humans.

However, Rick, I'm open to alternative suggestions. Tell me how do you create support for preserving and rehabilitating wild places in your New England coastal town.

Weary