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Uncle Wayne
09-27-2002, 07:03
Here is my gear list from my Central Virginia Section hike last year, planned to be out for a month (June). This is my FSO weight but does not include food or water. For my hike next month I'm using Teva Trail Shoes instead of Vasque Sundowners. That's a saving of 24 ounces. Have to admit I'm skeptical about giving up the ankle support but very pleased at the weight reduction. You can tell I'm not an ultra-lighter yet but working on it. Suggestions appreciated.

Gear for Appalachian Trail 2001 Weight

Housing / Storage
Backpack Peak 1 external frame, 5000 cu. in. 6 lbs.
Tent (complete) Peak 1 Aries 5 lbs. 4.0 oz.
Pack Cover REI 6.0 oz.
Sleeping bag Maramot 30-degree & Stuff sack 1 lb. 9.0 oz.
Thermarest Pad, LE, length & stuff sack 1 lb. 9.0 oz.
Sub total 14 lbs. 12.0 oz.
Clothing
Pants REI Convertible, one pair 13.5 oz.
Nylon Shorts, one pair 6.5 oz.
Tee Shirts, two Coolmax short sleeve 9.0 oz.
Underwear two boxer wicking type 6.5 oz.
Socks 3 pair Smart Wool& 12.5 oz.
Liner socks 3 pair poly-propolene
Rain Jacket & stuff sack 10.0 oz.
Sub total 3 lbs. 10.0 oz.

Cooking
Titanium 1 quart pot,lid & Lexan Spoon 6.5 oz.
Matches ,Candles & Bic Lighter 2.0 oz.
Campsuds & Scrub Pad 2.5 oz.
Fuel bottle & MSR Super Rocket Stove 12.0 oz.
Sub total 1 lb. 7.0 oz.

Water
Polar Pure Iodine Crystals, 1 bottle 3.0 oz.
1 quart Nalgene bottle 3.5 oz.
1 - 32 oz water bottle 2.1 oz.
Sub total 8.6 oz.

Medical
First Aid Kit, homemade, in zip lock bag,
12 Imodium AD tablets
36 Blood Pressure tablets
12 Benadryl capsules
18 Alieve tablets
12 Vitamin I (Ibuprofen)
4 Neosporin type ointment pouches
4" x 4" moleskin
10' duct tape
4 alcohol wipes
4 large Band-Aids
12 Maalox Tablets
Sub total 5.0 oz.

Miscellaneous
Swiss Army Knife 0.8 oz.
Bug Spray, Deep Woods Off, small pump bottle 2.0 oz.
Pencil & Journal, small shirt pocket size notebook 2.0 oz.
Tooth brush, paste & floss 1.8 oz.
50' - " parachute cord 0.5 oz.
Gaiters, short style 5.0 oz.
roll TP 4.0 oz.
2 Photon Lights & 2 spare batteries 1.0 oz.
Ear Plugs, 1 pack 0.1 oz
Pack Towel 2.5 oz.
Small Camera, ultrapod, & 3 rolls of film 10.0 oz.
ID,Credit,BCBS cards, Cash, Key 2.0 oz.
Boots, Vasque Sundowners with gel insoles 40.0 oz.
Camp Slippers 8.0 oz.
Eyeglasses & case 2.5 oz.
Bandana 1.5 oz.
Bear bag 2.5 oz.
Watch 0.5 oz.
Leki Poles, 11 oz. per pole 22.0 oz.
Hat 8.0 oz.
Guide book pages, map 3.3 oz.
Sub total 7 lbs. 8.0 oz.
Total Weight 28 lbs. 15.6 oz.

Corrected weight, Thanks Kerosene.

SGT Rock
09-27-2002, 09:18
Here are my constructive ideas, ignore them as you see fit.

1. Your backpack can be a huge weight savings. There are some plans on the internet to make one, and honestly, it is pretty easy. But before you go there, reduce all the other pack contents first. You could save over 5 pounds here.

2. Peak 1 Aires is a nice, inexpensive 2 person tent. I own one myself. But a tarp is lighter, as are many tents out there. And if you go solo, try to keep the shelter weight below 2 pounds. A 6x8 cheap tarp can do this and actually have more room. Use a 7 ounce Coolagan's bug net under it in buggy weather. If you really want to go light, a sil-tarp is the poop. You could save 2 pounds easy here.

3. Clothing. If you have convertable pants, why have shorts too? Three pair socks, I think 2 would be enough - same for shirts. Where is your cold weather clothing?

Kerosene
09-27-2002, 09:41
Uncle Wayne:

Switch to an Ultra-light Therm-a-Rest to save 9 ounces.
Switch to a sil-nyl pack cover to save 3 ounces.
I'd go with a hammock over a tarp. The Hennessy Racer comes in at only a pound and provides bug netting!
Look at the weight of your stove setup. A lot of folks go with alcohol stoves. I rely on a titanium canister stove for my section hikes that balances convenience with efficiency and weight. You might be able to save a quarter pound or more for equivalent burn time.
Every hard Nalgene 2-liter bottle I weigh comes in at 5 ounces. Consider swapping for a flexible plastic 2-liter Nalgene, which weighs only 2 ounces.
The lightest pair of Leki poles weighs 17 ounces. You might want to re-calibrate that weight.
I bring along multiple pairs of socks also. However, once the heavier socks get wet they'll just stay wet until you can dry them out in the sun or a laundromat. The liners have a chance of drying on the back of your pack, though. Cut out one pair of SmartWools.
If your convertible pants have a mesh liner, consider dropping one of your boxers and saving one for camp, saving 3.25 ounces.


Question: Where did you find "camp slippers" that only weigh 8 ounces? For my size 10 feet, I haven't been able to find anything less than 10.5 ounces that has a chance of standing up to the mud around a shelter if I need to make a quick jaunt to the privy.

Uncle Wayne
09-27-2002, 10:41
Originally posted by SGT Rock
1. Your backpack can be a huge weight savings.

2. Peak 1 Aires is a nice, inexpensive 2 person tent.

3. Clothing. If you have convertable pants, why have shorts too? Three pair socks, I think 2 would be enough - same for shirts. Where is your cold weather clothing? [/B]

Thanks Sgt Rock for your advice. I agree the pack and tent are items I could definitely improve on as far as weight goes, thanks for your suggestions.

Clothing- I hiked in one pair of smart wools, liners, boxers, nylon shorts & one of the tee shirts. I change into the convertible pants, dry tee shirt and one pair of socks at camp. That was one way to keep dry and warm after hiking in the rain / sweating all day. At bed time the dry clothes go in my sleeping bag stuff sack for a pillow and the next morning back in my pack. The set I wore hiking the day before go back on me. My feet are always cold, even in summer, so I always sleep in socks, which is where the other pair of socks comes in. The camp shoes are nothing more than the cheapest, lightest pair of house slippers I could find at Wal-Mart. The socks I wear around camp get dirty in these shoes so I don't wear them in my sleeping bag. One thing I'm going to try on my next hike to keep my feet warm is to put my feet in a garbage bag inside my sleeping bag. Since I was going hiking in June I didn't carry any cold weather gear / clothing. I planned when I was coldest I would have on each item of clothing I brought, rain coat and all. So far this has worked well.

Uncle Wayne
09-27-2002, 10:56
Originally posted by Kerosene
Switch to an Ultra-light Therm-a-Rest.
Switch to a sil-nyl pack cover to save 3 ounces.
I'd go with a hammock over a tarp. The Hennessy Racer comes in at only a pound and provides bug netting!
Look at the weight of your stove setup.
Every hard Nalgene 2-liter bottle I weigh comes in at 5 ounces. Consider swapping for a flexible plastic 2-liter Nalgene, which weighs only 2 ounces.
The lightest pair of Leki poles weighs 17 ounces. You might want to re-calibrate that weight.
Cut out one pair of SmartWools.
consider dropping one of your boxers

Question: Where did you find "camp slippers" that only weigh 8 ounces? For my size 10 feet, I haven't been able to find anything less than 10.5 ounces that has a chance of standing up to the mud around a shelter if I need to make a quick jaunt to the privy. [/B]

Thanks Kerosene, some very good observations. I trust you will read my reply to Sgt Rock so I won't repeat much of that reply but will try to address some of your points.
I tried the ultra light thermarest and it just doesn't work for me. I can't rest on it so I splurged and got the LE and feel much better come morning.
The pack cover is interesting. How durable are they?
I'm going to investigate the hammock idea. Thanks for the suggestion.
I have rechecked my Nalgene and it is just a tad over 3.5 ounces. But you caught me on the Leki's! That is the weight on one pole so my total weight is off by 11 oz. (Corrected now) Bummer, usually when something sounds to good to be true....
Please read my reply to Sgt rock about the boxers, socks and slippers. The Slippers only keep my feet off the ground but do little to protect from mud, dirt or whatever. They are extremely light and feel so much better than the Vasque at the end of the day.
Thanks again.

SGT Rock
09-27-2002, 11:04
If you decide to switch to a hammock, then you could also switch back to a foam pad since you will not need the extra cushioning of the Thermarest. What you want is a higher R-Value, and as I remember it, the foam pads have the best R-Value by weight. The Thermarest is too narrow and slippery, but Ozark Trails makes a blue pad sold at Wal-Mart with an egg crate pattern that has a surface that doesn't slide as easy, is 24" wide, and can be trimmed to length because it's 72" long. I've got mine at 68" and 14.7 ounces.

SGT Rock
09-27-2002, 19:48
I split Uncle Wayne's Packing list into a new thread. No offence Uncle Wayne, I'm just mad with POWER!:cool:

Uncle Wayne
10-25-2002, 08:39
Gear for Appalachian Trail 2002 Section Hike from
Clingmans to Fontana Dam
Housing / Storage
Backpack Peak 1 external frame, 5000 cu. in. 6 lbs. 0.0 oz.
Pack Cover REI 6.0 oz.
2 Fleece Blankets 3 lb. 0.0 oz.
Thermarest Pad, STD. length 1 lb. 4.2 oz.
Construction grade garbage bag 4.5 oz.
Sub total 10 lbs. 14.7 oz.

Clothing
Pants REI Convertible, one pair 13.7 oz.
Long Sleeve Shirt (flannel) 10.5 oz.
Tee Shirt, Coolmax short sleeve 6.6 oz.
Underwear 1 pair boxer wicking type 4.1 oz.
Socks 2 pair Smart Wool 6.6 oz.
Liner socks 2 pair polyprolene 1.7 oz
Rain Jacket 9.0 oz.
Rain pants 6.8 oz.
Sub total 3 lbs. 11.0 oz.

Cooking
Titanium 1 quart pot and lid & Lexan Spoon 6.5 oz.
Matches, Candles & lighter 2.0 oz.
Fuel bottle for MSR Superfly Stove 12.1 oz.
MSR Stove & stuff sack 6.1 oz.
Sub total 1 lb. 10.7 oz.

Water
Portable Aqua & Iodine taste remover 2.2 oz.
1 liter Platypus 0.9 oz.
1 - 32 oz Gatorade bottle 2.1 oz.
Sub total 5.2 oz.

Medical
First Aid Kit, homemade, in zip lock bag, Sub total 4 oz.
12 Imodium AD tablets
12 Blood Pressure tablets
12 Benadryl capsules
18 Alieve tablets
12 Vitamin I (Ibuprofen)
4 Neosporin type ointment pouches
4" x 4" moleskin, 10' duct tape
4 alcohol wipes,4 large Band-Aids, 12 Maalox Tablets
1 Chapstick

Miscellaneous
Swiss Army Knife 0.8 oz.
Bug Spray, Deep Woods Off, small pump bottle 1.2 oz.
Pencil & Journal, small notebook 2.9 oz.
Tooth brush, paste & floss 1.8 oz.
50' - " parachute cord 0.5 oz.
roll TP 1.9 oz.
2 Photon Lights & 2 spare batteries 1.0 oz.
Ear Plugs, 1 pack 0.1 oz.
Pack Towel 2.5 oz.
Small Camera (6.3) ultrapod (1.6) & 2 rolls film(1.8) 9.7 oz.
Credit Card, Driver License, ATC card, BCBS, Cash, Key 2.0 oz.
Boots, Hi Tec Outpost 39.6 oz.
Eyeglasses & case 1.7 oz.
Bandanna 0.8 oz.
Bear bag 2.5 oz.
Watch 0.5 oz.
Leki Poles 22.0 oz.
Hat 8.0 oz.
Whistle 0.3 oz.
Map & Guide Book 2.4 oz.
Clorox Jug (1 gallon)used to tote water 2.0 oz
Sub total 6 lbs. 8.3 oz.
Total Weight
Without food & water 22 lbs. 11.2 oz.
Nikon CP 950 1 lb. 1.7 oz.
Wide Angle Adapter 2.6 oz.
4 extra rechargeable AA batteries 3.8 oz.
Total weight + Digital Camera 23 lbs. 11.2 oz.
(w/o Olympus Camera & film)

Thoughts for next time: With all the rain, my boots stayed wet all 3 days. I didn't bring shoes to change into at camp. Might bring some next time. Used grocery store bags inside the boots over my dry socks this trip around camp. Lighter backpack, sleeping bag, stove and fuel also things to look for. Definitely need a new (and lighter) rain cover for my pack. The old REI one leaked badly. Need to prove (or disprove) the rumor that Smart Wool socks work well without liners. Probably don't need both a bandanna and a pack towel. I've carried the whistle now on 5 backpacking trips and have not used it yet. Don't know why I keep toting it around. I could wear a lighter hat but I'm too attached to this one so forget that option. A lightweight headlamp would have been useful while reading, writing or looking for stuff in my pack. Might be time to invest in another lightweight, weatherproof camera. Two extra batteries for the camera? All the moisture played havoc on this one, now 10 years old. I left the digital camera behind but included the weight total just for info purposes. Need to leave a little more plastic around the handle of the Clorox jug to prevent some of the flexing while pouring. Patsy brought an insulated mug, I didn't.

Food (7 meals + snacks, 2 people) 7 lbs. 9.0 oz.

Breakfast: Cereal (Fruit Loops, Smacks, Pops, Frosted Flakes, and Apple Jacks) Pre cooked bacon, Instant Oatmeal
Dinner: Cinnamon Raisin Bagels, Peanut Butter, Jelly
Supper: Campbell's Ramen Noodles, Melba Toast
Snacks: Snickers, Rice Krispy Treats, Cinnamon Toast Bars, and Oreo Cookies
Drinks: Crystal Light Tea, Lemonade, Kool Ade, Coffee, and Swiss Miss Cocoa

We had enough snacks to eat some at each meal and also when we took a break. This menu worked really well and the only thing I would do different is bring cheese next time.

Suggestions or questions always accepted.

SGT Rock
10-25-2002, 09:45
My reccomendations are just that, throw them out as you see fit.
Originally posted by Uncle Wayne
Gear for Appalachian Trail 2002 Section Hike from
Clingmans to Fontana Dam
Housing / Storage
Backpack Peak 1 external frame, 5000 cu. in. 6 lbs. 0.0 oz.
Pack Cover REI 6.0 oz.
2 Fleece Blankets 3 lb. 0.0 oz.
Thermarest Pad, STD. length 1 lb. 4.2 oz.
Construction grade garbage bag 4.5 oz.
Sub total 10 lbs. 14.7 oz.

1. Pack - Moonbow Gearsking. Carries a lot of weith or just a little. 20ounces weight for $125. Get a sil-nylon cover for about 2-3 ounces.

2. 3 pounds of fleece blankets? Ouch. Look for a good down bag like the Arroyo. Warmer than both hose bags and lighter too. You can find these on sale sometimes.

3. Replace the thermarest with a Mt washington - 8.0 ounces about $20.

4. Replace the construction grade garbage bag with a trash compactor bag - 2.0 ounces and very tough. Perfect size for a pack liner.



Clothing
Pants REI Convertible, one pair 13.7 oz.
Long Sleeve Shirt (flannel) 10.5 oz.
Tee Shirt, Coolmax short sleeve 6.6 oz.
Underwear 1 pair boxer wicking type 4.1 oz.
Socks 2 pair Smart Wool 6.6 oz.
Liner socks 2 pair polyprolene 1.7 oz
Rain Jacket 9.0 oz.
Rain pants 6.8 oz.
Sub total 3 lbs. 11.0 oz.


1. Personally I would only carry shorts. If you need long pants you can wear your rain pants.



Cooking
Titanium 1 quart pot and lid & Lexan Spoon 6.5 oz.
Matches, Candles & lighter 2.0 oz.
Fuel bottle for MSR Superfly Stove 12.1 oz.
MSR Stove & stuff sack 6.1 oz.
Sub total 1 lb. 10.7 oz.


1. change to an alcohol stove and 12 ounce soda bottle full of alcohol. If you use my stove, your total start weight would be 11.4 for the whole set up and that would be enough fuel for 2 weeks.



Water
Portable Aqua & Iodine taste remover 2.2 oz.
1 liter Platypus 0.9 oz.
1 - 32 oz Gatorade bottle 2.1 oz.
Sub total 5.2 oz.

Medical
First Aid Kit, homemade, in zip lock bag, Sub total 4 oz.
12 Imodium AD tablets
12 Blood Pressure tablets
12 Benadryl capsules
18 Alieve tablets
12 Vitamin I (Ibuprofen)
4 Neosporin type ointment pouches
4" x 4" moleskin, 10' duct tape
4 alcohol wipes,4 large Band-Aids, 12 Maalox Tablets
1 Chapstick

Miscellaneous
Swiss Army Knife 0.8 oz.
Bug Spray, Deep Woods Off, small pump bottle 1.2 oz.
Pencil & Journal, small notebook 2.9 oz.
Tooth brush, paste & floss 1.8 oz.
50' - " parachute cord 0.5 oz.
roll TP 1.9 oz.
2 Photon Lights & 2 spare batteries 1.0 oz.
Ear Plugs, 1 pack 0.1 oz.
Pack Towel 2.5 oz.
Small Camera (6.3) ultrapod (1.6) & 2 rolls film(1.8) 9.7 oz.
Credit Card, Driver License, ATC card, BCBS, Cash, Key 2.0 oz.
Boots, Hi Tec Outpost 39.6 oz.
Eyeglasses & case 1.7 oz.
Bandanna 0.8 oz.
Bear bag 2.5 oz.
Watch 0.5 oz.
Leki Poles 22.0 oz.
Hat 8.0 oz.
Whistle 0.3 oz.
Map & Guide Book 2.4 oz.
Clorox Jug (1 gallon)used to tote water 2.0 oz
Sub total 6 lbs. 8.3 oz.


1. Replace the Clorox jug with a 3 liter plataus. Instead of a hose use one of those pull and drink spouts. It only weighs about 1 ounce, folds flat when not in use, and carries about the same ammount of water.

2. Lighten up and wear trail shoes. If you know your going to get wet feet, then don't try and fight it, just work with it. In camp wear them unlaced without socks - like slippers.

3. Pull the cardboard tube out of the toilet paper.

4. Cut the pack towel in half.



Total Weight
Without food & water 22 lbs. 11.2 oz.
Nikon CP 950 1 lb. 1.7 oz.
Wide Angle Adapter 2.6 oz.
4 extra rechargeable AA batteries 3.8 oz.
Total weight + Digital Camera 23 lbs. 11.2 oz.
(w/o Olympus Camera & film)


Am I reading this right - you have two cameras? Just use one.



Thoughts for next time: With all the rain, my boots stayed wet all 3 days. I didn't bring shoes to change into at camp. Might bring some next time. Used grocery store bags inside the boots over my dry socks this trip around camp. Lighter backpack, sleeping bag, stove and fuel also things to look for. Definitely need a new (and lighter) rain cover for my pack. The old REI one leaked badly. Need to prove (or disprove) the rumor that Smart Wool socks work well without liners. Probably don't need both a bandanna and a pack towel. I've carried the whistle now on 5 backpacking trips and have not used it yet. Don't know why I keep toting it around. I could wear a lighter hat but I'm too attached to this one so forget that option. A lightweight headlamp would have been useful while reading, writing or looking for stuff in my pack. Might be time to invest in another lightweight, weatherproof camera. Two extra batteries for the camera? All the moisture played havoc on this one, now 10 years old. I left the digital camera behind but included the weight total just for info purposes. Need to leave a little more plastic around the handle of the Clorox jug to prevent some of the flexing while pouring. Patsy brought an insulated mug, I didn't.

Food (7 meals + snacks, 2 people) 7 lbs. 9.0 oz.

Breakfast: Cereal (Fruit Loops, Smacks, Pops, Frosted Flakes, and Apple Jacks) Pre cooked bacon, Instant Oatmeal
Dinner: Cinnamon Raisin Bagels, Peanut Butter, Jelly
Supper: Campbell's Ramen Noodles, Melba Toast
Snacks: Snickers, Rice Krispy Treats, Cinnamon Toast Bars, and Oreo Cookies
Drinks: Crystal Light Tea, Lemonade, Kool Ade, Coffee, and Swiss Miss Cocoa

We had enough snacks to eat some at each meal and also when we took a break. This menu worked really well and the only thing I would do different is bring cheese next time.

Suggestions or questions always accepted.

Jack Tarlin
10-25-2002, 12:56
Good ideas so far; a few quick thoughts:

1. Lose the underwear. Virtually nobody (male, anyway) wears it

2. Lose the Pack towel; consider another bandana instead, it has a
ton of uses

3. Consider replacing pot lid with sheet of tin foil

4. "Off", "Cutter's", or anything like it like contains approx-20-25%
Deet is worthless against bad bugs. But then again, in June you
may not encounter bad bugs. I'd still get something stronger,
tho, like Ben's

5. Consider lighter footwear. Also, I cannot reccommend Hi-Tec boots

6. All this stuff is minor---much more significant savings could be
with different pack, sleeping pad, bag, water carriers, etc., as
several other folks have pointed out

chris
10-25-2002, 14:11
Hmmm...It seems like Baltimore Jack and I are just meant to disagree. I wear underwear on the trail, at least when I'm not naked. The underwear is a pair of what I call grippies. Essentially, cycling shorts. One pair is made by Bike, the other by Andiamo. I bring one pair for a long trip. The Andiamo's are pretty much see-through, so I tend not to bring them if I will be spending a lot of time in nothing but underwear in public. I've found that wearing such things helps cut down on chaffing.

wacocelt
10-25-2002, 14:24
Sorry bit off topic, but I laughed and laughed when I read it.

Sgt. Rock said

I split Uncle Wayne's Packing list into a new thread. No offence Uncle Wayne, I'm just mad with POWER!

Imagine a high ranking NCO on a power trip? NEVER!:D

Jack Tarlin
10-25-2002, 15:08
Geez. "Grippies"???? Can't say I even like the SOUND of this particular accessory. Sounds like hiking gear from the period of the Spanish Inquisition, if you ask me.

And as to an anti-chafage remedy, the best, lightest, and cheapest I've seen is plain old panty-hose stockings, which do the job, weigh next to nothing, can be purchased for a handful of change at places like Wal-Mart, and when you cut the lower legs off 'em, you can save the bottoms and use 'em in place of designer sock liners, thus saving even more money. As to spending lots of cash on lycra-spandex type "sports" underwear, I think it's a waste of money. However, if you do take the panties option, avoid getting hit by a truck or at the very least, change your drawers before getting to the emergency room, as it may prevent some raised eyebrows on the part of the attending medical staff. Or, if you can get past the unfortunate name, I suppose one could go with the Grippies.

SGT Rock
10-25-2002, 15:26
Two thoughts-

1. I use spandex for the same reasons, but I would love to get rid of them. The problem is I have tried going sans underwear or spandex and end up with thigh chaffee. I don't want to vasaline my thighs, I haven't tried panty hose (but that and a kilt - WOHOO!). Honestly I want to get rid of them because they are HOT. IT is like having my privates in a sauna. And before ya'll joke about it - not my Privates^.

2. I did one trie the panty hose inside the socks as liners and they got chewed up. I also sometimes hike without socks at all, but don't do this unless your ankles have thick skin.