External frame packs [Archive]

Scrollner

08-07-2007, 19:54

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-07-2007, 20:06

The he-dino use the Kelty Trekker 3950 (http://www.kelty.com/kelty/products.php?terms=trekker&id=193). We have a pair of the really old Keltys - from the 1970s - and this pack is basically the same.

Scooter

08-07-2007, 20:20

After thirteen years of sectioning with a Kelty Trekker, I'm now starting to wonder. Finished up a 70-mile section in Penn. this Spring with a bruised kidney and the only thing that really makes any sense is the external frame, pounding on my torso. Granted, strap adjustments to the pack could have solved the problem, but I'm now considering going internal. I guess life is always greener on the other side....

Ender

08-07-2007, 20:22

I own a very very old version of this pack...

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=14753288&memberId=12500226

...that I used when I was a kid in boyscouts. The pack is very comfortable, and since the frame is plastic, it flexes a little making it move with the body a little bit. Kelty also makes great packs.

Campmor.com has a whole section on external frame packs, and none look to be over $110.

Auntie Mame

08-07-2007, 21:54

I'm with Ender. I have seen the Outdoor Products Mantis, which is a smaller version of the Saturn. Holds a lot, its sturdy, weighs probably @ 4#. If you are a light weight kinda hiker, youth packs might be good: they hold @3000 cu, and are cheap. Jansport Scout, Kelty Yukon, Mountainsmith something-or-other. I like the concept of it being able to sit off the ground somewhat, when leaned against a tree.

map man

08-07-2007, 23:37

I never miss a chance to praise the luxurylite external frame pack (luxurylite.com). Mine holds 4200 cubic inches of stuff and weighs just over two pounds (you can customize it to your own needs). I've hiked over 400 miles with it and like it more all the time. Hopefulhiker, on this site, hiked the length of the AT with it. It's not for people who are tough on their equipment, and it's expensive, but it's one to consider.

Jimmers

08-08-2007, 00:18

Recently, I used a friends external frame pack when I visited him for a weekend hike. I liked it more than my internal pack. His was an old Kelty (early 90's) but was not willing to part with it. It seems that externals are out of favor nowadays. Why is that? Also does anyone have any reccomendations for a current model of external?

Just my own theory, but I believe the internal frame craze is almost entirely due to marketing. Internal frame packs just look better/cooler in advertisments, so alot of people started picking them up. Internal frames are undeniably better for rock hopping and scrambling, since they keep your center of gravity closer to your body for better balance. But they're horrible at keeping you cool in summer heat, and there's just something nice in knowing that you can just strap anything you don't want inside the pack onto the frame and go, like wet clothes and tents. For the AT an external frame is just fine.

trapper4077

08-08-2007, 00:23

I have a Gregory Evolution external frame that I have used for the past ten years until I bought an internal frame. This Spring I had to use my external frame pack again while I was having my internal frame repaired. I hope I never have to use the external again. It was so stiff and clumsy, I was snagging low branches the entire way. I still like my Gregory but only as a back up.

Scrollner

08-08-2007, 04:10

wudhipy

08-08-2007, 05:38

:bananaI have a Kelty Tioga........I got it mainly for the reason I expected to more or less be a Sherpa on backpacking trips with my wife....no not that... I mean carrying the stove, water filtration ect.. the weight distributation is utterly fantastic. Well balanced.... and the weight of the pack itself is comperable to most internals I have tried. Perhaps the external frame and the adjustments give the feeling of it weighing less once it's on than while putting it on ... if that makes any sence. Anyway it has been my loyal garage on three section hikes on the AT now and hopefully someday I will live out of it from Springer to Katadin.

see ya in the woods

wudhipy

Toolshed

08-08-2007, 06:05

SQUEAK step step SQUEAK step step SQUEAK.
They can be annoying. I have had several over many years and still have my '72 lake cruiser from Camp Trails.
Everyt ime I get a nostalgia bug (about once a decade) I see one dicsounted and pick it up - take it out for a few days and then remember why I like internals. Then I sell it on Ebay.

I have grown accustomed to a pack that moves with me, hiking without taking my pack off for 2-4 hours at a time, with flexibility.

With the Eframe, you can't lean over too easily, You are always catching branches & and spider webs. Blowdown is horrendous to ger through. I also find I cannot walk as fast with the E Frame as I can with the I Frame.

You can find one oncloseout at www.eurekacampingctr.com If you were so inclined.

hopefulhiker

08-08-2007, 07:43

I hiked the trail with a luxury lite 2 lb external frame pack which featured a counterbalancing front pack...

Time To Fly 97

08-08-2007, 09:46

I thru-hiked with a Camp Trails Wilderness. It held up fine with 35-45 pounds. I loved the external pockets and "kitchen sink" pockets inside. I used the frame as a little table under my tarp to keep my gear off the floor. If it started to creak, I put water on the frame attachments. I had no problems with it except that time in Maine when I mis-stepped and the pack lurched me over and 4 feet deep into a bog pit (which was surprisingly warm - does that make sense?)

The frame was pretty much shot after my thru-hike and I have a Gregory Denali now. I think there are better alternatives with regard to weight (the Denali is 7 pounds dry) out there. Since I don't carry a lot of weight in it, I have been extremely comfortable with it. The suspension and padding are the best and I like the "hatch" layout of the pockets.

Whatever you get, just make sure it carries weight comfortably on you, allows you to organize and access gear the way you like, and has some element of coolness which you feel allows no substitute. You'll know what I'm talking about when you see your pack.

Happy hiking!

TTF

taildragger

08-08-2007, 09:46

I love my external for lighter loads, mainly because I don't have to worry about the bulk of items. It's great for just walking.

I also just recently switched to a larger internal pack (Gregory Whitney, not something that I'd really recommend for the AT). I decided to retire the external from most jobs after a week of hiking through blowdowns. Straps got caught on limbs, caused me to go without a sleeping bag for a night (thank god for dry clothes and having a hiking partner). Coming off of the CDT, I had part of the frame, or a strap catch a limb, knocked me off balance, and nearly caused me to go down a very large and undoubtably fatal cliff. After those experiences I decided that an internal was the better back for more technical movements.

Now, if I was walking in more open country, I'd use my external. If I were to do something like that AT, I'd probably use my external till Maine, then think about changing.

oops56

08-08-2007, 09:55

How in the world do you change pack frame in the middle of a hike. Do you have it air drop to you.

taildragger

08-08-2007, 09:58

Very very good friends, or else I'd imagine that your SOL

Jim Adams

08-08-2007, 10:21

[quote=Ender;389690]

...that I used when I was a kid in boyscouts. The pack is very comfortable, and since the frame is plastic, it flexes a little making it move with the body a little bit. Kelty also makes great packs.

Since the frame is plastic, does anyone have any thoughts or info on the durability of it vs. the traditional aluminum frames?

I used a Peak 1 external on my 1990 thru hike. I was doing reseach and developement for them with the then new XPD suspension system. It had what appears to be the same (nylon /plastic/composit?) frame as the pack pictured. It was the most comfortable pack that I've EVER carried. It had all of the advantages of the external but because it also flexed, it had some of the fit of an internal. It lasted for years and I had a little over 4,000 miles on it when I sold it. It was still going strong! I wish that I could find another one new or almost new. I would buy it in a heartbeat!
I currently have 7 internals of various sizes and brands. Some are vastly better than others, some are very similar. None are as easy carrying and as comfortable as that Peak 1.
:-?
geek

taildragger

08-08-2007, 10:42

Jim Adams

08-08-2007, 10:57

Hey Jim, I have the same model peak 1 that you are talking about, the thing is great with loads under 35. Did you ever experiment with a different hip belt, I found that mine wasn't very comfortable when I had to start carrying heavier winter gear. That, and the belt needs to be replaced.

The last few years that Peak 1 made those packs they had 2 different suspension systems. The original was really "hurting" for a good hip belt--pun intended. The XPD system had a very good, dual density foam hip belt and was incredibly comfortable. I had done alot of backpacking prior to the A.T. but never more than a week at a time. My first day on the trail with no extended long distance hiking experience in my past, my pack weighed 65 lbs.! I quickly got it down to 40-42 lbs. which was light for the day and kept it there for the remainder of the hike. The XPD system was constantly evolving as I walked and several components of the system were re-thought, re-designed and re-fitted until I got the system to it's final design before N.Y. It was a great system! Does your pack have load lifted straps from the shoulder straps to the top of the frame? If so it is XPD, if not it is the old system with the poor strap and hip belt designs.
I feel sure that you can match up a modern hip belt as they attached to the frame easily with straps.:-?
Hope you can fit some new suspension because that frame rocks!

geek

Pennsylvania Rose

08-08-2007, 12:34

Just got my 16 yr old son an Outdoor Products external with a flexible plastic frame. We haven't had a chance to test its durability yet, though. He and I have been sharing my ancient boy scout external and an internal frame pack (can't remember what brand). We both prefer the external because of air circulation, it's easier to organize and you can strap more stuff on the outside (that's important to me because I have 5 and 6 year olds who can't carry much). My absolute favorite pack, though, is my ex's old Kelty Tioga (circa 1990).

Ender

08-08-2007, 12:51

Since the frame is plastic, does anyone have any thoughts or info on the durability of it vs. the traditional aluminum frames?

Well, mine is over 20 years old and as good as the day I bought it. The pack fabric is showing signs of age, but the frame is in great condition. So, pretty durable.

I'll agree with Jim Adams that it's one of the most comfortable packs I've worn. The Luxury Lite pack is another very comfortable pack, but it's a bit more expensive. Great pack though, and super lightweight.

Man I own a lot of packs...:p

tanpuma

08-10-2007, 00:20

REI used to rent Ext frames, maybe they still do?
good way to try it out for yourself.

trail ronin

08-11-2007, 20:43

Mystery Ranch (Dana Gleason) makes the most technical external frame packs ever designed . They are called the N.I.C.E. frame systems. You buy the frame and packbag seperately. The U.S. Marines , Army Special Forces and the Navy Seals all use these to carry heavy loads in extreme conditions. They are not cheap! but from what I've seen, worth every penny. Check out the website http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/

warraghiyagey

08-11-2007, 23:57

I have an XtFrame Campmor. No idea of the cubic inches. None needed. Like deciding to hike SOBO it just came to me and it was just right. It carried 70 lbs through the 100 mile before I learned I only needed about 40 lbs. It was made around 2000. I'll probably use it on my next thru as well. I like seeing the packs my trail friends have and have considered changing. But like going south on the trail, it fits, it's comfortable and I haven't found a compelling reason to change. It also elicits reactions which are fun for me to interact with.
And my more seasoned trail friends seem to have a respect for it as I do. In the world of distance hiking right now, it's different, it works so well and it is so much my companion each night providing me with what I need to spend the next day on the trail. If you have a pack on your back and your on the trail, the make isn't the issue. It's that you have what you need to live on the trail.
Happy hiking.:)

Peaks

08-12-2007, 07:49

Just my own theory, but I believe the internal frame craze is almost entirely due to marketing. Internal frame packs just look better/cooler in advertisments, so alot of people started picking them up. Internal frames are undeniably better for rock hopping and scrambling, since they keep your center of gravity closer to your body for better balance. But they're horrible at keeping you cool in summer heat, and there's just something nice in knowing that you can just strap anything you don't want inside the pack onto the frame and go, like wet clothes and tents. For the AT an external frame is just fine.

I agree! Marketing has driven externals into oblivion. Consequently, there are very few companies that currently make externals. And they haven't kept up with the latest trends, like using light weight fabrics.

shelterbuilder

08-12-2007, 21:46

I agree! Marketing has driven externals into oblivion. Consequently, there are very few companies that currently make externals. And they haven't kept up with the latest trends, like using light weight fabrics.

Internal frame packs are better for bushwhacking off-trail, since the frame can't snag on brush. But for folks like me who sweat waterfalls when we hike (in all kinds of weather), nothing beats the external frame pack's ability to get rid of that perspiration quickly without letting it soak into the pack fabric!

Peaks

08-13-2007, 08:24

Internal frame packs are better for bushwhacking off-trail, since the frame can't snag on brush. But for folks like me who sweat waterfalls when we hike (in all kinds of weather), nothing beats the external frame pack's ability to get rid of that perspiration quickly without letting it soak into the pack fabric!

I'm sure that is very true. But, in reality, how often does anyone bushwack off trail with a full pack? Most of us stay on established trails. Perhaps, on occaision, we do get on a badly overgrown trail, but that's about it.

modiyooch

08-13-2007, 10:05

I have an Alpenlite external frame. It weighs about 5 pounds. It basically supports the weight from my hips, giving my shoulders/back a break. It is too large in capacity, but everything has it's own compartment. It is freestanding. It never comes inside the tent. It is from 1980, and I will never switch to internal. How much do the internal packs weigh?

Heater

08-13-2007, 10:37

scout005

11-29-2007, 23:19

I always use an external for trail hiking. The plastic frame versions are great. I have no idea why internal frames are so popular except that they're marketed more heavily. They're just a sack of potatoes hanging off your back and sweaty potatoes at that.

LIhikers

11-30-2007, 08:26

The last time I was at Campmor I noticed that they had quite a few external frame packs hanging on the wall in their pack section, if anyone is interested.

Summit

11-30-2007, 09:59

I still have my usable JanSport D3 external frame pack that I used for years - did the John Muir Trail (JMT) with it in 1977. One "Pro" for externals is they are cooler on the back. I tend to sweat profusely in mild/warm/hot weather in the area where my Gregory internal pack contacts my back.

The major negative, which has already been mentioned, is they tend to be stiff and on very uneven / rugged terrain can throw your balance off more easily than a properly fitted internal. Other than that, a pack's a pack! ;)

Summit

11-30-2007, 10:00

Oh, it stands to reason that externals are going to be a good bit heavier than internals due to the frame.

Tipi Walter

11-30-2007, 10:07

Off the top of my head, here's a list of externals, old and new:

Mystery Ranch
Coleman(black plastic)
Dana Designs(Terraframe, Loadmaster, etc)
North Face(old Back Magic)
Kelty
Outdoor Products(the bright orange things)
Alps
Camp Trails(the rugged standby)
Luxurylite
Yuccas of BSA fame
Army ALICE packs
Trapper Nelson packboards(ancient wooden frames with trump lines, etc)

There's probably many more.

Summit

11-30-2007, 10:09

Yes, JanSport had an extensive variety in their hay day.

Tipi Walter

11-30-2007, 10:17

Opps! I forgot the stalwart Jansport! And the Alpenlite. Here's a fotog of me wearing the old North Face external in 1984, I lived out of this thing:

EWS

11-30-2007, 10:26

John Lennon wasn't murdered! ;)

rafe

11-30-2007, 10:34

Oh, it stands to reason that externals are going to be a good bit heavier than internals due to the frame.

You'd think so... but my first "fancy" internal frame pack (MountainSmith FrostFire) was substantially heavier than the Camp Trails pack that it was intended to replace.

Tipi Walter

11-30-2007, 10:37

John Lennon wasn't murdered! ;)

Letting my freak flag fly . . .

John B

11-30-2007, 10:44

Tipi, you'll need to add a Eureka.

My very first pack was a bright yellow Eureka external, maybe about 4,000cc, that even had two small aluminum rods on each side of the top section. The rods served absolutely no purpose except to make the pack look squared off, which I guess is important for those who want to style while hiking.

The pack weighed about 6 lbs. but got me through numerous overnight hikes in my teen years, which means that it was almost bomb proof.

My wife tossed it out a year or three ago when she was getting rid of all of my "useless junk."

Summit

11-30-2007, 10:45

John Lennon wasn't murdered! ;)If you find where Elvis is hiding out, you'll find John too! :D

Palmer

11-30-2007, 11:58

My JanSport D3 is still the most comfortable pack I've ever used. I had an Alpenlite (with a plastic frame) back in the late 70s that was never really comfortable, possibly because it didn't fit properly. I've tried a few internal frames, but none has been as comfortable as the JanSport.

Nowadays, I carry a Kelty Shadow during the summer, but switch back to the JanSport in the winter. The JanSport is huge, so it's easier to fit all the extra stuff I need when it's cold. I sometimes have a hard time convincing myself to switch back to the Kelty in the spring.

Based on my experience, I think that internals are lighter, so if weight is your major concern, then you should use an internal. Externals carry weight better, so if you're staying on a trail and don't mind an extra pound, then the external works better. I agree with other posters that it's unfortumate that external frame design hasn't kept up with the times. I'd love to see a nice carbon fiber frame with silnylon pack cloth.

Grampie

11-30-2007, 12:23

I started my thru with a 1970s Kelty external pack. When I got to Hot Springs I was going to switch to a newer pack. The guy at the outfitters convinced me to just change out the pack hip belt and shoulder straps to what Kelty is now using on their current external packs. I did this and now my 1970s pack is much like the current Kelty Trekker.
The pack gave me great service. I never had any problems with it. I have just replaced a zipper on one of the pockets. I like the fact that you can put stuff in the outside pockets that are easy to get to. I like that after seeing others, with enternal frame packs digging for stuff in one large compartment.
I have seen Kelty Trekker packs for less than $100.:sun

Tipi Walter

11-30-2007, 12:27

Here are some other pics showing different externals. The first shows an old Kelty. The second show the back view of the North Face Back Magic. The third shows two Kelty packs, a smaller Tioga 4100 and the big daddy, a Kelty Ultra Tioga, their most extravagant external attempt. And finally, the 4th shows a fully loaded Camp Trails(on the left)with the Ultra Tioga.

BTW, I didn't know Eureka even made external packs . . . Any pics?

Summit

11-30-2007, 16:37

I also have a Kelty that looks more like your NF Back Magic. These pics are making me want to dig out my stuff and photos from yesteryear! :)

Palmer

11-30-2007, 18:32

I kinda like the looks of the NF Back Magic, but I'm a sucker for any unique design.

I think that the hipbelt is what makes the JanSport so comfortable. It's got aluminum stays that attach to the frame and then to the hipbelt, so the load is actually carried on the side of the hips rather than in back. Of course, the system adds weight, but if you'be already got a heavy load, a few extra ounces don't matter.

Summit

11-30-2007, 19:04

Here is my JanSport D3. I'm on the JMT/PCT at pass looking into Yosemite NP in 1977. I was 27 then . . . oh, those were the days! :)

Tipi Walter

11-30-2007, 19:52

Here is my JanSport D3. I'm on the JMT/PCT at pass looking into Yosemite NP in 1977. I was 27 then . . . oh, those were the days! :)

Wow, let me look but I think I have almost the same one that a friend had(he got it from Campmor about 4 years ago):

Palmer

11-30-2007, 20:47

Here is my JanSport D3. I'm on the JMT/PCT at pass looking into Yosemite NP in 1977. I was 27 then . . . oh, those were the days! :)

Looks like you've got it propped up on the side stays - nice!

NICKTHEGREEK

11-30-2007, 21:13

Recently, I used a friends external frame pack when I visited him for a weekend hike. I liked it more than my internal pack. His was an old Kelty (early 90's) but was not willing to part with it. It seems that externals are out of favor nowadays. Why is that? Also does anyone have any reccomendations for a current model of external?

Kelty made an Ultra-Tioga with a black spectra pack in the 6000+ cu. in. range. The kid got it for Philmont, and it was a very comfortable BIG load hauler. Pricy devil too. At the time I used a Super Tioga, and it wasn't at all comfortable, Strapping on the Ultra with a heavier load was a pleasure by comparison. If you want a big load external and you run across a nice used Ultra, try it out.

Summit

11-30-2007, 22:33

Looks like you've got it propped up on the side stays - nice!Yes, that is one thing I loved about it, you could stand it up by itself anywhere. I have to admit that those side bars dug into my hips some, especially when carrying a lot of weight. When I started this hike at Whitney Portal, it was 150 miles to Red's Meadows, the first place to mail drop more food to yourself. So I started out, hiking up 14K ft Mt. Whitney with 14 days worth of food, arghhh! This picture and the above one were about 3 weeks apart. I don't know if you can tell, but I lost about 20 lbs between the two pics, and I was in pretty good shape in this one! :eek:

Summit

11-30-2007, 22:36

Wow, let me look but I think I have almost the same one that a friend had(he got it from Campmor about 4 years ago):Cool, very close. Yours is a later version of the D3 where they improved/expanded the side pockets to hold a little more.

Summit

11-30-2007, 22:37

I think they also modified the side bar and improved the suspension system too!

atraildreamer

12-01-2007, 13:20

Off the top of my head, here's a list of externals, old and new:

Coleman(black plastic)

A friend just gave me an older Coleman Peak 1 backpack with the external plastic frame and 2 sidepockets. (He got it for $5 at a yardsale). Is this worth using? The frame is flexible, and the bag is in good shape, but I'm wondering about the durability of this model. :-? Anyone have/use this one?

(Sorry...no picture available.)

Footslogger

12-01-2007, 13:31

A friend just gave me an older Coleman Peak 1 backpack with the external plastic frame and 2 sidepockets. (He got it for $5 at a yardsale). Is this worth using? The frame is flexible, and the bag is in good shape, but I'm wondering about the durability of this model. :-? Anyone have/use this one?

(Sorry...no picture available.)

==================================================

That's what this is ...

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/0/IMG_2651-1.JPG

...and heck yeah, it's a great pack if it fits and holds the load you carry. Pulled this one out of the storage room a week or so ago and pulled it on. Forgot how light and comfortable this pack was ...

'Slogger

Summit

12-01-2007, 13:33

I remember those, like a heavy plastic frame? If you find some intrinsic value with it, you might use it, but from what I remember of them they are very cheap and I heard people report the frames breaking a lot.

atraildreamer

12-01-2007, 13:50

==================================================

That's what this is ...

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/0/IMG_2651-1.JPG

...and heck yeah, it's a great pack if it fits and holds the load you carry. Pulled this one out of the storage room a week or so ago and pulled it on. Forgot how light and comfortable this pack was ...

'Slogger

That's the one. I won't be using it though...the wife wants it! :rolleyes:

Deadeye

12-01-2007, 15:02

My old (circa 1969) Kelty is the same as pictured on the left in Tipi Walter's post #44. I replaced the webbing, shoulder straps, and hip belt a few years ago, and it's still going strong. I like the ventilation an external gives you, and the fact that it will stand up and stay open instead of just collapsing. And it still makes a great backrest, ala Colin Fletcher.

chezrad

12-02-2007, 12:52

After 25 years I finally replaced my Coleman Peak 1 black plastic frame pack. The frame is in great shape. No cracks or anything like that and I never babied it. The bag is about trashed. I had to remove the plastic tie on pieces several year ago since the plastic had disintegrated with age. Threw some silicone seam sealer over the holes and kept on going. The hip belt sucked. But the shoulder straps were great. If I could get, or make a new hip belt for it I'd keep it arounf for heavier winter camping.