View Full Version : Erwin Hiking Center Update
Miss Janet
08-17-2007, 15:20
Hello everybody!! I really miss this site and being able to keep up with everyone! I think I am still having withdrawal symtoms even though it has been weeks since I cut off my internet.
Well, I have bad news and good news...
Bad... My first proposal was rejected by the land owner. He does not want to further develop his land at this time.This was my preferred location after months of searching so it has been hard to let that plan go.
Good... I am working on Plan B and it is starting to really excite me. The property I am looking at now has a very different setting and with that comes good things and bad things, of course. But I think it has a lot of possibilities.
I am slowing making headway with the sorting and packing at the house. WOW, where did all this stuff come from???? I am also working with the Small Business Development office and a local business attorney. I hope to reopen with a better business plan but still be able to offer a "homestyle" service.
I appreciate your phone calls and visits. It has been great to see friendly faces the past few weeks. Rainman and Grass, YoYo and Zero, Wonder and Uncle Silly, BooBoo and Mad Scientist... thanks for stopping by, sorry everything was such a mess!
well miss hanet, i hope plan b comes to reality. we will be keeping our fingers crossed and prayers sent!!!
Miss Janet
08-20-2007, 18:19
Thank You!! I will take all the good thoughts I can get!
The new proposal goes in the mail in a few days.
Jim Adams
08-20-2007, 18:26
Yo baby! Plan B? LOL
Keep rock'in on dear and please let me know if there is anything that I can do to help!
My nunber is still the same...call me.
geek
SGT Rock
08-20-2007, 18:28
Let me know if you need some help lifting stuff.
StarLyte
08-20-2007, 19:04
I am thinking of you today. :sun
the goat
08-20-2007, 19:27
rock on miss j, keep us posted on any new developments!
Hikerhead
08-20-2007, 20:50
Good luck. Need a truck?
Sorry I haven't called! Let me know if there is anything you need help with......I'm not that far! Good luck with Plan B, you know that we are ALL rooting for you!
Mountain Maiden
08-21-2007, 15:32
You Go, Girl!! I am excited about your plans and confident that it will all work out!
You know I'd come help you pack (I have so much experience...) but, here I am in Maine and it is all your fault! :D
Going to Rangeley Sun/Mon and hope to hook up with "Bonnie Carolyn."
WHEN and HOW will we ever catch up????????
Good thoughts and lots of Love,
S
Hugs to the Girls!
I can offer a truck and some muscles also if you need them.
Miss Janet
08-22-2007, 19:19
YOU GUYS ALL ROCK!!!!!!
Thank you for the well wishes. I really needed them today.
I had a slightly stressfull meeting this afternoon with the Erwin Planning Commission concerning thier NEW regulations for Bed and Breakfast establishments. I was INVITED to attend. Someone thought my comments might be helpful, seeing that I have ran the busiest "B&B" in Erwin. I was happy to give my opinions and advice. Erwin is a great town for B&B's and I hope to see many new ones open here.
Well, another business owner... who resides in the county... with no plans to open a B&B... attended as well. The general public was allowed to attend so it was ok but a little strange. What interest could this person have in drafting a new ordinace for B&B's??
Well, that became clear when he introduced himself and then spent several minutes detailing how MISS JANET"S HOUSE had hurt the reputation of AT hikers in our community. He ended his comments with how glad he was that now that I was closed that maybe hikers coming to Erwin could gain a better reputation in Erwin.
I wasn't even going to say a word about this. I have always tried to take the higher road. I have been ashamed of my self lots of times when I have let my temper get away from me and have said negative things. Or when I have let myself be upset by fabricated rumours... but this was such a blindsided attack that I am blown away by his audacity! His comments had NOTHING to do with drafting a new ordinace for the city of Erwin. Am I just being overly sensitive to think that he attended this meeting only to get a few jabs in? He knows that I am planning a new facility... do you think he has already started a new campaign to try to hurt this new project?? I am having heart palpatations just thinking about those first few years of hell when I was getting Miss Janet's House started. I had truly believed that we were beyond that stage and that the transition would be without the fear of HIM trying to sabatoge my every move!
How many ways can you spell naive??
Sorry to vent here. I am sure this isn't the right place... but Fabian just looked at me with his headed cocked sideways and said "Bummer! Can you feed me now, please?"
The Weasel
08-22-2007, 19:26
Janet ---
Winston Churchill once famously said, "Democracy is the worst system of government, except for all the others that have been tried." You just saw that. I know it hurts.
But still, it was good. You know someone who is not - yet - your friend, and you know what she/he will say. You can contact them, and try to show them how they are wrong, and you can contact the Planning Commission members (separately, perhaps) to do the same (this is called, "lobbying," and now perhaps you'll have a nicer view of "lobbyists." It really is democracy. And, on balance, that's a good thing. Honest.
But I'm sorry it upset a nice lady.
The Weasel
Miss Janet
08-22-2007, 19:31
I know it is better to know what might be coming at this point. I can get ready for the battles and the lobbying!
But, the man was Uncle Johnny and I am weary of his games.
But, the man was Uncle Johnny and I am weary of his games.
never would have guessed him, :rolleyes: , are there any ordances against slander, or just being a (bunch of words that will get bleeped out)?
Mountain Maiden
08-22-2007, 19:46
As the saying goes...
"Consider the source."
And---keep smiling!! Whatever is meant to be---willl be.
Extra hugs,
S
SGT Rock
08-22-2007, 19:56
Win the lottery and buy him out.
Two Speed
08-22-2007, 19:59
. . . I had a slightly stressfull meeting this afternoon with the Erwin Planning Commission concerning thier NEW regulations for Bed and Breakfast establishments. . . Off the wall question, but does the Erwin Planning Commission have any authority outside city limits? Might want to consider looking at unincorporated Union County.
As far as UJ offering his opinion do you know if he represents the opinion of the Commission or is just commandeering the forum? This sort of thing happens more than you might suspect. If UJ is abusing the process he could be alienating the Commission members. Might be worth your time to talk to the Commissioners and/or their staff and see what their take is.
Anyway you slice it ya gotta love local politics. :rolleyes:
. . . now that I was closed that maybe hikers coming to Erwin could gain a better reputation in Erwin. . . Don't know if closing your hostel is going to improve the hiker's reputation. However, the closing of your hostel has severely damaged the overall reputation of hostels in Erwin. Anyway, that's the way we see it on Planet Two Speed.
The Weasel
08-22-2007, 22:51
never would have guessed him, :rolleyes: , are there any ordances against slander, or just being a (bunch of words that will get bleeped out)?
Indeed. I would not have suspected that, and it saddens me. I enjoyed my stay (twice) with him in '00, but this is enough to make me defer doing so in the future. We have not met, Janet, but I have never seen you behave or referred to as other than a lady, with grace and goodness.
Perhaps I'll drop him a note. Others may wish to. There should be room in Erwin, of all places, for more than one hostel and provider. Perhaps if John realizes that others feel there is room for both of you he will be a bit more reserved.
Letters, notes and emails to him would likely be more helpful, it seems to me, if polite, than outraged. Comments to the Companion that John is a source of some controversy might be useful to the Companion, as well.
The Weasel
The Weasel
Tennessee Viking
08-22-2007, 23:03
Hikers hurt Erwin...bull crap
Doesn't the guy know that a lot of the tourism that Erwin receives is from hikers.
The only troubles I have ever seen around the area are the idiots that drive up to Beauty Spot and Unaka Overlook, get drunk or high, and trash the place. Then m THP buddies tell me the stories of the drugs being trafficed over the state line. Those are the real problems.
Rain Man
08-22-2007, 23:08
Well, that became clear when he introduced himself and then spent several minutes detailing how MISS JANET"S HOUSE had hurt the reputation of AT hikers in our community. He ended his comments with how glad he was that now that I was closed that maybe hikers coming to Erwin could gain a better reputation in Erwin.
How come I suspect that the folks in Erwin might know better about what comes out of his mouth? And know better about the CLASSY Miss Janet?
I'm sure you took the high road, and your class showed, as did his lack of class.
As the ol song goes, "Stay on the sunny side."
Rain:sunMan
.
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 07:04
Doesn't the guy know that a lot of the tourism that Erwin receives is from hikers.
hikers spend very little money. if hikers never stepped a foot in erwin again they wouldn't be missed
Gray Blazer
08-23-2007, 07:50
Yeah, I'd be worried about UJ. The guy has a spotless reputation.......NOT!!
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 07:56
the closing of your hostel has severely damaged the overall reputation of hostels in Erwin. Anyway, that's the way we see it on Planet Two Speed.
huh? ain't gettin' that one. :-? the best hostel used to be on the river at the rafting center
But, the man was Uncle Johnny....
????!!!!.....Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Just when I thought things had changed. I've heard he'd turned over a new leaf and was making serious efforts to make amends within the AT community. Obviously this is wrong and proves once again, "You can't put first class knowledge in a second class head."
Other than greed, I don't understand what this sorry individual's problem is. Yes, I have met him, can relate a personal story or two about him and haven't liked him since Spring, 2000 (pre Miss Janet's Hostel).
What's his real name anyway? "Uncle" is too nice a title for him.
max patch
08-23-2007, 10:07
huh? ain't gettin' that one. :-? the best hostel used to be on the river at the rafting center
Yup. Nolichucky Expeditions was a great place to stay. Good food if you were there when the WhiteWater Cafe was open. Spent one night in the bunkhouse and another camped just a few feet from the river.
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 10:09
Yup. Nolichucky Expeditions was a great place to stay. Good food if you were there when the WhiteWater Cafe was open. Spent one night in the bunkhouse and another camped just a few feet from the river.
it was always easy to get a ride back and forth to town too.
Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 10:17
hikers spend very little money. if hikers never stepped a foot in erwin again they wouldn't be missed
Except at Miss Janets, the grocery story, the Holiday Inn, the restaurants...
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 10:19
Except at Miss Janets, the grocery story, the Holiday Inn, the restaurants...
Raft people spend ten times more.
Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 10:28
Raft people spend ten times more.
No doubt. But the amount hikers spend is not insignificant.
In 2000, I bought some provisions from uncle johnny - he happily took my money, I nabbed a shuttle from miss janet - she happily took my money, and I overnighted at Holiday Inn Express - they happily took my money.
If one or the other goes under or closes down, there will be other to take their place and happily take your money.
Better to let the Erwin business community sort out their own differences.
bulldog49
08-23-2007, 14:48
No doubt. But the amount hikers spend is not insignificant.
Say 2000 hikers a year stop-off in Ewrin and spend an average $50, that's only $100,000. Barely enough to keep any self-sustaining business afloat.
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 15:15
Except at the grocery story, the Holiday Inn, the restaurants...
those businesses will make more $$$ this week from NASCAR fans than 5 seasons worth of hikers spending. Go #8!! WOO HOO!
Two Speed
08-23-2007, 18:30
huh? ain't gettin' that one. :-? the best hostel used to be on the river at the rafting centerWell, let's see. First, "used to be" is probably the operative phrase, but being a generous sort of guy, I'll take your word for it that the rafting center is still a great place to stay. From what I've seen UJ's "hospitality" is extremely likely to vary depending on how long it's been since his last visit to the liquor store. That makes staying there undesirable in my book.
So, a little basic logic, Two Speed style.
We had two good, cheap places to stay in Erwin, and one that was "variable." Now we have one good, cheap place to stay and one that's "variable." That would reduce the number of desirable places to stay in Erwin by about 33% the way I figure it.
Next, the owner of one of the cheap places to stay in Erwin has a regrettable habit of trashing another hostel owner. That qualifies as "low rent" in my book.
So, to reiterate, on the average, Miss Janet's closing has severely damaged the average reputation of hiker lodging in Erwin, as seen from Planet Two Speed.
If you've got a different opinion, well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, aren't they?
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 19:43
Well, let's see. First, "used to be" is probably the operative phrase, but being a generous sort of guy, I'll take your word for it that the rafting center is still a great place to stay. From what I've seen UJ's "hospitality" is extremely likely to vary depending on how long it's been since his last visit to the liquor store. That makes staying there undesirable in my book.
So, a little basic logic, Two Speed style.
We had two good, cheap places to stay in Erwin, and one that was "variable." Now we have one good, cheap place to stay and one that's "variable." That would reduce the number of desirable places to stay in Erwin by about 33% the way I figure it.
Next, the owner of one of the cheap places to stay in Erwin has a regrettable habit of trashing another hostel owner. That qualifies as "low rent" in my book.
So, to reiterate, on the average, Miss Janet's closing has severely damaged the average reputation of hiker lodging in Erwin, as seen from Planet Two Speed.
If you've got a different opinion, well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, aren't they?
well son, all i can tell you is 21 years ago when i first hiked the trail there were no hostels in erwin. not even the one on the river. matter of fact there weren't a lot of them anywhere. hostels aren't a necessity on the AT. now there's a {scat} load. camp in the woods i say
[QUOTE= Go #8!! WOO HOO![/QUOTE]
#8? Are you on something? :D Just kidding. Going to Bristol?
Lone Wolf
08-23-2007, 20:31
#8? Are you on something? :D Just kidding. Going to Bristol?
nope. not this year. i've gone the past 3 though
warren doyle
08-23-2007, 20:50
I love camping near my 'secret' swimming hole in Jones Branch or in the beautiful rhodo thickets before Curley Maple Gap Shelter.
Two Speed
08-23-2007, 21:08
well son, all i can tell you is 21 years ago when i first hiked the trail there were no hostels in erwin. not even the one on the river. matter of fact there weren't a lot of them anywhere. hostels aren't a necessity on the AT. now there's a s chitt load. camp in the woods i sayI don't believe you're old enough to qualify as my father, but if so could you please forward all the back allowance I never received?
While we're at it camping is good, too.
rainmaker
08-23-2007, 21:57
those businesses will make more $$$ this week from NASCAR fans than 5 seasons worth of hikers spending. Go #8!! WOO HOO!
Ain't goin to happen dude. Junior is a nice kid, but does not have the same fire in the belly as his Daddy or for that matter his Granddaddy Ralph. As for the economic impact of hikers on a town the size of Erwin, I have to agree with you.
The Weasel
08-23-2007, 22:52
One person's "minor economic impact" is another person's job or, as Lenin put it, "One man's death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.
Even if the total revenue is $100,000, that's "incremental money" for most stores and services in Erwin, i.e. on top of the rest of their regular income. There's a "multiplier effect" of around 2 to 3, as well, since the person who earns a buck locally will likely spend some of it locally, as will the person who earns that piece, and so on. So the impact is about $250,000. That's 10 jobs or more, and if someone came to the Erwin Chamber of Commerce (nice people, very helpful) and said, "We have an opportunity to put 10 people to work here," the COC would be very happy.
Janet, the COC is (or was, in '00) a very nice bunch, with offices right downtown. You might want to check in with them, and also the Erwin Economic Development people (combined county and Erwin, it appears), which the COC can point you at. You're bringing money into town, and they will like that.
The Weasel
SGT Rock
08-24-2007, 06:48
Yes, don't forget us folks that come to Erwin more than once a year because of places like Ms Janet - we drive in and spend money too. So just because the majority of her customers are dirty walking hiker trash that don't spend a lot of money doesn't meant they all are. Funny how I always have trouble finding a place to park when I drive there.
Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 06:53
Funny how I always have trouble finding a place to park when I drive there.
those are section hikers parked cars
SGT Rock
08-24-2007, 06:59
No ****. I never thought of that.
Lone Wolf
08-24-2007, 07:00
just thought of it myself
generoll
08-24-2007, 07:50
so when is a hiker not a hiker? ah, when he's a section hiker. o.k., got it.
Gray Blazer
08-24-2007, 08:51
I always drop a few bucks at Irwin Burrito and the thrift store.
Rain Man
08-24-2007, 12:43
those are section hikers parked cars
Dang... you saw my car earlier this month?!!! LOL
Rain:sunMan
.
Back to the original topic of the thread:
Cloud 9 is for sale. But, I guess you already know that!
Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 12:55
Hmmm. I just read this whole thread. Very sorry to hear about the recent unpleasantness in Erwin; I'd thought that was pretty much in the past.
And the funny thing is that I was considering writing the Editor of the Thru-Hikers Companion suggesting that they re-instate Uncle Johnny's place in next year's book (They've not listed the place for several years due to the extraordinary volume of complaints about the establishment). In recent years, tho, I've heard many favorable comments about the place, its staff, and even its management. I figured they'd been out in the cold long enough, and that things had finally changed there, and that they deserved to be back in the Companion. I was going to suggest to the Companion's Editor that in light of a changed atmosphere there, they should be re-listed in next year's book.
Guess I figured wrong. Doesn't look like much has changed, which is a pity.
Well, at least that's one letter I won't have to write this week.
Next year's hikers take note: I haven't commented on matters in Erwin for a very long time, as I was under the impression (wrong, obviously!!) that the ugliness there was a thing of the past. So I'll comment now: If Janet Hensley has a hiker facility open in or near Erwin next year, they absolutely should stay there. If she doesn't, then folks should stay at a motel.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 13:18
So no decent hostel now exist in Erwin. Guess Erwin will drop off the radar as a hiking town / resupply point unless Miss Janet reopens something in the area.
As LW and Rock have noted, some of us section hiking types have been to Erwin and spent $$$ in the local stores, restaurants and other businesses solely because Miss Janet's establishment was there. Without Ms. Janet's, there is no reason to stay in Erwin long enough to spend any $$$.
When people like Krewser,a man I have known several years and have never heard say anything bad about anyone else, say to avoid Uncle Johnny, I listen. I've never met him because I have heard very few good things about him and have gone out of my way not to meet him.
Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 13:24
There are plenty of reasons to still visit and stay in Erwin, it neither should or will "drop off the radar." It's a friendly town, with good services for hikers. And as for lodging, there's a perfectly good motel within walking distance of the Trail.
That being said, I hope Miss Janet relocates in or near Erwin. It'd be great for her, and even better for next year's hikers.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 13:34
I should have qualified that to say section hikers. We tend to base out of an area with a good staging area - and without Miss Janet's, there isn't a good staging area in Erwin.
As you note, the best thing that could happen is for Miss Janet to find a new place in the area and to be available to next years thru and section hikers. Maybe she can find a place on the river and spare the rafting crowd some of Uncle Johnny's 'hostitality' :D.
There are plenty of reasons to still visit and stay in Erwin, it neither should or will "drop off the radar." It's a friendly town, with good services for hikers. And as for lodging, there's a perfectly good motel within walking distance of the Trail.
That being said, I hope Miss Janet relocates in or near Erwin. It'd be great for her, and even better for next year's hikers.
Alligator
08-24-2007, 13:38
As a section hiker, I passed through Erwin twice. It was an endpoint for two sections. It's not just thrus passing through town.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 15:25
What's his real name anyway? "Uncle" is too nice a title for him.John Shores
warren doyle
08-24-2007, 15:29
John Shores has always treated me fine over the years.
As a section hiker, I passed through Erwin twice. It was an endpoint for two sections. It's not just thrus passing through town.
I ended a section hike in Erwin just so I could start my next section from Miss Janet's. I also stayed with her on spring break one year and got some slackpacking miles in. Had Miss Janet not been there, I wouldn't have considered Erwin as a stopping point, given U.J's reputation.
Miss Janet will do just fine with any hostel she opens anywhere, Erwin or not, simply because.............she is Miss Janet.
YOU GUYS ALL ROCK!!!!!!
Thank you for the well wishes. I really needed them today.
I had a slightly stressfull meeting this afternoon with the Erwin Planning Commission concerning thier NEW regulations for Bed and Breakfast establishments. I was INVITED to attend. Someone thought my comments might be helpful, seeing that I have ran the busiest "B&B" in Erwin. I was happy to give my opinions and advice. Erwin is a great town for B&B's and I hope to see many new ones open here.
Well, another business owner... who resides in the county... with no plans to open a B&B... attended as well. The general public was allowed to attend so it was ok but a little strange. What interest could this person have in drafting a new ordinace for B&B's??
Well, that became clear when he introduced himself and then spent several minutes detailing how MISS JANET"S HOUSE had hurt the reputation of AT hikers in our community. He ended his comments with how glad he was that now that I was closed that maybe hikers coming to Erwin could gain a better reputation in Erwin.
I wasn't even going to say a word about this. I have always tried to take the higher road. I have been ashamed of my self lots of times when I have let my temper get away from me and have said negative things. Or when I have let myself be upset by fabricated rumours... but this was such a blindsided attack that I am blown away by his audacity! His comments had NOTHING to do with drafting a new ordinace for the city of Erwin. Am I just being overly sensitive to think that he attended this meeting only to get a few jabs in? He knows that I am planning a new facility... do you think he has already started a new campaign to try to hurt this new project?? I am having heart palpatations just thinking about those first few years of hell when I was getting Miss Janet's House started. I had truly believed that we were beyond that stage and that the transition would be without the fear of HIM trying to sabatoge my every move
Let us know in plenty of time and we can start a callin/faxin/letter writing campaign supporting what you are trying to do.
Scrollner
08-24-2007, 17:44
Any time the "pie" shrinks, (ie loss of $100,000 of potential revenue) the businesses in the area suffer. Some may go out of business. A loss of that amount of business in a town the size of Erwin will have negative consequences for many.
max patch
08-24-2007, 17:48
I've never stayed at UJ's -- so I'm not going to comment -- but this recent news article doesn't make UJ seem like the demon that this website generally makes him out to be.
From the Unicoi County (Erwin) newspaper:
http://www.vbbeacon.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2007/04/12/461e5897e4b70?in_archive=1
In 2005, a young lady named Colleen Norwine, came to Uncle Johnny's Nolichucky Hostel and stayed for a while. She was secretly researching a book she was writing, and no one knew about it until three months later when the book was published. The book, titled "Great Hostels USA - An Inside Look at the Best Adventure Travel Accommodations," featured The Nolichucky Hostel as one of the best in Tennessee.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 18:00
Unicoi County alone gets approximately 1500 section hikers yearly, and the numbers keep increasing each year.If 1500 people come there to section each year, I'm betting more than $100,000 will be lost in revenue.
Max Patch, John Shores' service has been spotty for years. That's why he is not listed in the Companion and why guys like Krewser who never have anything bad to say about anyone recommend avoiding him. When he chose to go to a town meeting and bad-mouth Miss Janet, he lost a lot of business from hikers. Behavior has consequences.
Jack Tarlin
08-24-2007, 18:07
Hey Max:
I think it's kinda interesting that in an article dated April (tho published today) the author didn't bother to interview or quote ONE 2007 thru hiker. You'd think that in April of 2007 when this piece was allegedly researched, she might have encountered or talked to some real hikers. The article reads more like a paid advert than a genuine news story.
And it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that John Shores' greatest champion on this thread is Warren Doyle, who says he's always been treated swell there. Gee, I'm so happy to hear it, tho it surprises me to hear that Doyle patronizes a place that not only charges money but is also known to be notoriously tight-fisted. But then again, maybe this is a trait that Warren can appreciate.
But in fact, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that this is evidently one of Warren's favorite Trail hangouts.
Birds of a feather nest together, as they should. It serves the dual purpose of keeping themselves happy and away from a better class of birds, who nest elsewhere.
Everyone's happy.
Glad you like the place, Warren. Hopefully next year, you'll find it easy to find a vacancy there.
I suspect that as it approaches next year's hiker season, vacancies there won't exactly be a rarity.
Miss Janet
08-25-2007, 00:26
It is strange that this article seems to have been REPUBLISHED today.
This article first appeared in the Beacon on May 3, 2007. It was mentioned in a thread here on Whiteblaze several months ago.
I am not so upset about his comments at the meeting anymore. It takes too much energy. He really looked a little sickly and really may not be a well man.
I think his comments were out of place but he hurt himself with the mayor and the planning commission more than he hurt me. They were really baffled.
But lets please let it go for now, ok?? I am content in my support from all of you and it makes me happy to read your good wishes.
Hopefully, I will have some news about my project to report in a week or so.
It is strange that this article seems to have been REPUBLISHED today.
This article first appeared in the Beacon on May 3, 2007. It was mentioned in a thread here on Whiteblaze several months ago.
I am not so upset about his comments at the meeting anymore. It takes too much energy. He really looked a little sickly and really may not be a well man.
I think his comments were out of place but he hurt himself with the mayor and the planning commission more than he hurt me. They were really baffled.
But lets please let it go for now, ok?? I am content in my support from all of you and it makes me happy to read your good wishes.
Hopefully, I will have some news about my project to report in a week or so.
So Miss Janet, I guess the pot is sufficiently stirred, now you're happy.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-25-2007, 06:32
Chief, Miss Janet is a class act. She is saying that the man is not worth the considerable spiritual energy it takes to be upset with someone and she is letting it go.
Miss Janet did not attack John, John attacked Miss Janet. When he decided to do that, he decided that his actions might become public and to accept the consequences that come with the actions.
I do hope the newspaper will get in touch with Miss Janet and interview her about her plans. What she has planned could actually bring groups to Erwin for a week or so at a time and that would be good for the local economy.
In the meantime, Miss Janet, are you still offering September shuttles to Davenport Gap?
Jack Tarlin
08-25-2007, 09:13
Um Chief, like what is your major malfunction?
Janet didn't stir this up. John did. If you look at any of the Uncle Johnny threads on Whiteblaze, you'll see that Janet has continually said that she wanted this whole thing to go away and that she was glad that after many years, it apparently had. She has told more hikers than I can count that she DOESN'T want to talk about it anymore and prefers that others don't. When the subject of animosity in Erwin came up in her house, she told people bluntly she was tired of the whole thing and wanted folks to change the subject.
So your post was way out of line.
Janet didn't stir the pot here. It wasn't Janet that went to a town meeting in Erwin with the sole intent of slamming the name and reputation of anyone else in that town. It wasn't Janet who revived this whole stupid thing.
Here's the news, Chief, whether or not you want to hear it: John Shores had a good thing going. A beautiful facility, a great location, a town that needed a facility. He pissed it all away by the way he operated the place. There hasn't been a place on or near the A.T. in a dozen years that has generated the negative commentary that his place has, and there hasn't been another
that I can think of that was removed from a major hiker's guidebook because of the number and seriousness of the complaints raised about the establishment. In short, he had a great thing going, he ruined it, and he has spent the better part of a decade looking for someone else to blame.
It had been hoped that this was over and done with. I haven't commented on this matter in months, maybe years, partly because I knew Janet didn't want it raked over again, and partly because there was no need to bring it up. It had appeared that things had changed in Erwin. I heard from lots of folks who stayed with John who had a great stay, and I was glad to hear it. I was actually geting ready to contact the Editor of the Thru-Hikers Companion to suggest they re-instate John as it seemed that things had straightened out there. Well I guess my sentiments were pre-mature. Nothing has changed there, evidently.
In any case, Chief, you're way off base with your above comment blaming Janet for the latest chapter in this sad story. Your hero John was a way of shooting himself in the foot when it comes to his reputation in the hiking community, and with his recent performance in Erwin, it seems he's doing it again. Instead of blaming Janet for this, you might want to write HIM. The way for him to restore his good name and the reputation of his business is to treat people right; to stop giving anyone reason to register a complaint; and to give up his atempts to sabotage other people's businesses-----he should instead concentrate on his own. As long as he continues a decade-old campaign to hurt other people, and as long as he continues to blame other people for his own troubles, then nothing will change in Erwin, as it is apparent from his recent performance that in fact, nothing has changed there.
I'm sure Chief will have some sort of response to this, but the only thing I wanna hear from him is regret for his last comment. It was uncalled for, it was out of line, and it was wrong. What Janet wants is peace and quiet, and the opportunity to spend her time on her own affairs. Other people should do likewise.
First of all, I commend Jack for standing up for his friend. Secondly, I didn't place blame on Janet for this particular mini-feud in Erwin. Janet is probably right, UJ continues hurt himself more than her. However, I do believe Janet's post (at least on some level) was meant to rally the troops here on WhiteBlaze after UJ's latest gripe. Hey, I would do it too. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought I too had an agenda. Sorry Jack, I stand by my comment. The pot was stirred and I believe, not with the goal of "peace and quiet" from either party.
First of all, I commend Jack for standing up for his friend. Secondly, I didn't place blame on Janet for this particular mini-feud in Erwin. Janet is probably right, UJ continues hurt himself more than her. However, I do believe Janet's post (at least on some level) was meant to rally the troops here on WhiteBlaze after UJ's latest gripe. Hey, I would do it too. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought I too had an agenda. Sorry Jack, I stand by my comment. The pot was stirred and I believe, not with the goal of "peace and quiet" from either party.
I think you are right, chief. That is what I thought too after she named the person as Johnny. She was exposing him. I don't blame her. He was being an ass.
The Weasel
08-26-2007, 04:09
Janet - whom I have never met - seems like a good and kind person, and I remain a bit surprised at this whole event, since on the occasions I stayed at 'Uncle Johnny's' - before she opened her hostel - it seemed to be a friendly and good place, both in terms of guests and staff. I tend to recall that John was considering, or actually had, acquired the Laurel Creek Hostel, which had its own problems in '99 or '00, and that he was considering a facility in Damascus. I'm not sure what happened in all of that.
I do know there can be strong feelings about (and against) places and people on the Trail, and a very competitive spirit on occasion. Perhaps there is a way that, since it appears that both Janet and John will remain in Erwin, they can find a way to make a sort of peace among themselves. For their sakes, as well as that of all who walk past Erwin, I hope that can occur, without further inflamed feelings.
The Weasel
Jack Tarlin
08-27-2007, 19:18
Geez, Weasel, that's what we ALL hoped, as the whole thing had quieted down for quite awhile.
But one doesn't "make peace" by continually making trouble; speaking ill of one's competitors or neighbors; and interfering with someone else's right to make a living. It's been said before, but needs repeating: There's plenty of room in Erwin for several hiker-related business, offering different services. In most places, it's GOOD for hikers to have several options when they arrive at a Trail town.
But the best way for a place to get a good reputation......or to regain a deservedly tarnished one.....is to treat people right; concentrate on taking care of one's own customers; refrain from interfering with other service providers; and basically, mind one's own business.
THAT's how you get and keep a good name in the hiker community as a service provider.
Very simple really, but I guess some folks just don't get it.
The Weasel
08-27-2007, 19:26
Geez, Weasel, that's what we ALL hoped, as the whole thing had quieted down for quite awhile.
But one doesn't "make peace" by continually making trouble.
Jack, there are many ways of 'making peace', and I say that as a litigator who knows, from direct experience, that they can work and work well, even when there is antagonism. The best is called 'mediation' and occurs even without litigation or formal disputes, where people can find a neutral who can help them reach an accommidation. Not a process where someone "wins", or has a "judge" say they were right or wrong, but where someone with good training - and they exist in the Erwin area as well as most places - can help people reach solutions they can live with.
Perhaps if someone - Janet, John, or anyone with ties to either - has an interest in knowing more, they can let me know and I can help point them in the direction that might - might - make life easier for each. As Winston Churchill (I think) once aptly said, "There is no such thing as a good war, or a bad peace." It can happen, and it would be good for each if it did.
The Weasel
Jack Tarlin
08-27-2007, 19:39
You're missing the point, Counselor.
There WAS peace, up until very recently.
All Janet wants is a good leaving alone to tend to her own affairs.
This matter will be resolved when certain people realize that their behavior has an affect on their reputations and future standing in the hiker community.
This matter doesn't require lawyers or mediators. It requires instead, common sense, maturity, and decent behavior. Until then, nothing will change. But if people want to fix a poisoned well by pouring strychnine down it, that's their problem. Prudent folks wil simply opt to draw water elsewhere.
The Weasel
08-27-2007, 20:03
You're missing the point, Counselor.
No, Jack, you are. Disputes either last, or end. If they end, they either end because they died out, permanently, or because those involved realized - both of them - that it wasn't productive.
This one didn't die; it may have been quiescent, but it is now back. It can last, or it can end, and dying out is not likely.
Mediation is a good way to end things like this. It's a process that helps people find ways to deal with such situations, and doesn't involve "winning" or "losing" or even arguing. Good mediators can reduce conflict and, sometimes, help people find ways to end it. It works, and it's a good thing. Good mediators get a lot of training in this; some are attorneys, but others are businesspeople, psychologists, and even a few engineers. It works all the way from small communities up to national and international issues. The most famous mediator of all got a Nobel Peace Prize: Teddy Roosevelt.
Here, I see two people who have interests that they wish to obtain for their own benefit, and some of those interests conflict. Perhaps they could have been avoided in the past, but that's water over the dam. The interests, and the conflict, remain. But there may be ways that both can discuss, with a little help, how they can achieve their interests without the conflict remaining. That may involve some soul-searching by each, but this doens't look to me to be something that is unresolvable.
As I said, if either Janet or John or anyone who knows either of them well has more of an interest in helping resolve this, I'd be glad to help them learn more what mediation is, and can do. PM me - anyone - and I will share information. No hard feelings if no one does, but it would be good, I think.
For those interested, here is a link to the Michigan system, which is often, but not always, a part of "litigation". Most mediations are not part of the court system, but the legal system really likes mediation because it is a good way for people to get good results far more quickly and inexpensively, often free. Other states are very similar to Michigan, and I can help anyone who really needs more info to find sources in their own state.
http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/dispute/
The Weasel
Scrollner
08-27-2007, 21:02
Weasel,
Maybe mediations in Michigan work differently than in Florida, but nrecently we had a "mediation" that really only worked for one side. Wal-Mart wanted to put a store here at the beaches, which the community overwhelmingly did not want. The case went to mediation, and the mediator decided that the solution was that Wal-Mart pay the city back legal expenses and hire a 24 hour security guard for the first three months. The city of Neptune beach was told by the mediator that if they pursued it in court, they would most likely lose since the case went to mediation. This is a case of mediation where both sides did not get thier best intrest looked after, only Wal-Mart did.
The Weasel
08-27-2007, 21:31
Weasel,
Maybe mediations in Michigan work differently than in Florida, but nrecently we had a "mediation" that really only worked for one side. Wal-Mart wanted to put a store here at the beaches, which the community overwhelmingly did not want. The case went to mediation, and the mediator decided that the solution was that Wal-Mart pay the city back legal expenses and hire a 24 hour security guard for the first three months. The city of Neptune beach was told by the mediator that if they pursued it in court, they would most likely lose since the case went to mediation. This is a case of mediation where both sides did not get thier best intrest looked after, only Wal-Mart did.
Scrollner:
Take a look at the link. The kind of 'mediation' - "true mediation"- I am referring to is sometimes called "faciliation" or "facilitative mediation". It's confidential - so the Walmart situation you mention isn't true mediation. And there are no decisions in it by mediators; that's "arbitration", and there aren't even usually recommendations (never public).
Honest; take a look at the link. It's a good thing for both sides; I've been a mediator in about 75 cases, many of them what would seem "small" to you (but important to the parties), involving business disputes, parent/child disputes (teenagers), neighbor disagreements, and a lot more. About 50 of those actually resulted in the parties reaching an agreement about what would happen in the future (written and signed by them), and of the other 25, about 15 either ended up much reduced or, after some times, agreed on a resolution close to the last positions of the parties. Of the other 10, I think it was valuable since each side had a better idea of what and why the other side felt and acted as they did.
This whole process is part of what is called "alternative dispute resolution," i.e. different from court litigation. It includes things like arbitration and "case evaluation" like your Walmart case, but "true mediation" really, really, really works to get people to solve disputes by reaching their own agreements, rather than ones that are "imposed". The Miss Janet/Uncle Johnny situation cries out for this kind of approach, and I wish I was a couple thousand miles closer so I could explain it to each. (By the way, it's usually free or very inexpensive, including when the mediator is an attorney.)
Honest, read the link.
The Weasel
Miss Janet
08-27-2007, 21:33
As the oldest of 7 children I was very often the mediator for conflicts with my younger siblings. It was often a good experience and everyone hugged and went back outside to play when the "mediation" was over. Unfortunately, as soon as I was out of sight, the two involved often started right back up.
Thank you for the advice. I do understand how it might be helpful in many circumstances and I would be willing to participate. I just do not believe he would. Mutual friends tried to get him to sit down and come to some resolutions with me and he refused... 4 years ago.
BUT it will never be solved here on an internet forum. I am really sorry that I ever brought it up at all. I should have just sucked it up, put it in a box and taped it up!!! I am increasingly aware that my life is lived out here in the REAL world, alone, and fighting my battles alone... what happens in here can be theoretically(sp) helpful but I am still the one that has to live it. So, any chance that I can put the ugly genie back into the bottle???
bulldog49
08-27-2007, 21:52
I generally agree with what Jack has to say most of the time, but I believe whether or not UJ's place is listed in the guide ought to based on the service he provides to hiker's, not how he gets along with other busines establishments.
However, I don't think his actions at the C of C meeting would lead me to believe he has changed his methods from those which led to his delisting from the guide in the first place.
I usually don't respond to threads, I just like to read them but this one I just felt compelled to support Miss Janet. I spent nine days at UJ in April while my husband was thru-hiking the AT. It was during Spring Break, we were meeting up with my husband, the family was along and we were going to be doing some hiking with him too, trail magic, sight seeing, etc. I spoke with Miss Janet before we came and she was great, after discussion realizing I was bringing kids with me, staying for such along time and with kids, I opted to stay at UJ. However, we went over to Miss Janets all the time, ate breakfast,hung out, helped with shuttels, helped with Easter dinner, she bought eggs for my kids to color for Easter and let them hide them in the back yard. It was great. She asked my to invite UJ and his wife, Shelly and Frank over for Easter dinner. I did. They didn't show. Miss Janet is a fine lady with a big heart. Our stay at UJ was nice, we had no problems there. We dealt more with Shelly than we did with UJ but they were good to us while we stayed there, maybe because we had kids. I know Miss Janet has tried to make and keep the peace, it's someone else that has issues with making peace. There might be a lesson here for UJ, what goes around comes around. For you Miss Janet- Don't focus on your giants, let a higher power take care of that, you just focus on getting your hostel up and running so we can come and visit this Spring!
... So, any chance that I can put the ugly genie back into the bottle???
I know what you mean, sometimes it don't matter how much you drink, some Genies just don't get prettier at closin' time.
It's been 10 days since you started this thread, what's the news in Erwin?
Got land?
Got a roof over your head?
Do they still crown a Queen for the Apple Festival in the Fall?
Any chance for Frau Dino might be it this year? Baltimore Jack?
Miss Janet is "Good People" ::::::::::::::: Johnny is NOT!!!
The Weasel
08-28-2007, 00:16
Well, of course she is. But, I suspect she would agree, not yet perfect in every way. And, I suspect, there are redeeming qualities which have not been dwelt upon here that John Shores possesses. What a grand thing it would be if someone would ask them to take a moment and sit together, perhaps with a common acquaintance assisting, and each see the good in the other.
I think of all the times I have tried to overcome a problem, and not succeeded, sometimes because of others who were at fault somehow. Yet that does not mean that the problem could not be solved; it just meant that, perhaps, there might be a different way to solve it that I hadn't yet seen. I rather hope that there are those in, or close to (literally or figuratively) Erwin and these two who might help them find that solution. It would be so wonderful for them, and even better for those of us who, like they each do, find Erwin a gentle place along our Trail.
The Weasel
dixicritter
08-28-2007, 07:01
What a grand thing it would be if someone would ask them to take a moment and sit together, perhaps with a common acquaintance assisting, and each see the good in the other.
The Weasel
Mutual friends tried to get him to sit down and come to some resolutions with me and he refused... 4 years ago.
Weasel, it has already been tried, didn't you read what she said? Let it go now like the lady asked please.
The Weasel
08-28-2007, 08:05
Yes, I recall that, Dixi. But one hopes that John might be more accepting to such a process four years later. Frankly, while of course it seems to me that Janet has tried a number of reasonable steps, I also have hopes that John might see some of the posts in this thread - WhiteBlaze is rather more widespread than even some of us realize - and reflect on how to resolve some of this. But I may be wrong; still, I hope he does. That would be a good thing for him, and Erwin, as well as others.
The Weasel
Lone Wolf
08-29-2007, 19:54
Johnny's should be listed or the Companion should get out of the business
Rocketman
08-29-2007, 21:01
Sounds like nobody had heard UJ's side of the story.
I feel that there could be extenuating circumstances that nobody here has talked about.
I stayed with UJ for weeks, and found him to be nice and sometimes "nicer than was good for himself". And this has caused subsequent problems.
On the niceness side, I saw two occasions when thru-hikers came in with broken suspensions on their packs, and his staff were able to fix them and get them going. The alternatives were expensive shuttles to places for service/exchange or lengthy stays waiting for factory repairs.
No charge for the fixes.
Mini-Mosey
08-30-2007, 07:45
All I have to say is that I fervently hope (and somehow plan) to be hiking on the AT in that area one day and meet Miss Janet.
Be sure to stop in at Uncle Johnny's also. Nice place!
warren doyle
08-30-2007, 14:33
Removed - name calling
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-30-2007, 14:36
::: Dino quietly prays for reconciliation and respects Miss Janet's wish to drop this :::
the goat
08-30-2007, 14:41
Removed - response to name calling
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 14:43
Uncle Johnny was "unfortunate" in that he upset a lot of people, dozens of whom registered formal complaints with ALDHA and the ATC about their treatment at his facility/business. The decision to remove him from the Thru-Hikers Companion was based on these complaints, which were compiled over several years. It wasn't a sudden decision.
This matter had not been discussed in recent time until Johnny himelf re-opened the matter with his recent comments at the meeting in Erwin, comments obviously directed at Janet Hensley. If Johnny's friends and admirers really want this to go away, and really want to "hear the end of it" they'd do well to tell him to let it go. But as long as HE revives the unpleasantness, it's going to be commented on.
Johnny's should be listed or the Companion should get out of the business
That would be like quitting your job after ejecting a single unruly customer.
That said, I kind of think it's silly NOT to include him in the Companion, and I was field editor for the Erwin section the past three years. Although he's only one man, I compare it to services turning away hikers because of a few idiots. Yet, I can see ALDHA's point in not including him. In the end, it's a trivial fact whether he's included or not, as it's not going to make or break anyone's hike.
The Weasel
08-30-2007, 15:23
Uncle Johnny.....
Removed - response to name calling
That would be like...
Dino's hope is shared by me. Those who wish Janet well, and those who wish John well, those who wish both or neither well should, I think, respect the fact that Janet has suggested an end to this discussion, and John has said nothing. I will join Dino in her hope, and hope others too will do so.
The Weasel
SGT Rock
08-30-2007, 15:26
No it isn't. BUT if I were a hiker and walked off the trail in Erwin and there was a hostel across the street that wasn't listed. I would kind of wonder if someone were putting personal issues ahead of informing the hiker.
I think if the guides are going to list a business that specializes in hikers - they ought to include 'em all unless they abuse hikers. The internal back issues should stay internal back issues. Serving the hikers needs are the job of the guide.
And, BTW, I still love Ms Janet.
Dino's hope is shared by me. Those who wish Janet well, and those who wish John well, those who wish both or neither well should, I think, respect the fact that Janet has suggested an end to this discussion, and John has said nothing. I will join Dino in her hope, and hope others too will do so.
The Weasel
Y'all get over it, this is a discussion board.
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 15:29
Y'all get over it, this is a discussion board.
it's becoming a somewhat heavily monitored one.:cool:
the goat
08-30-2007, 15:30
Removed - response to name calling
am i missing something? this isn't the straight-forward forum, and i didn't call anyone a name; so why was i edited, fd?
Footslogger
08-30-2007, 15:30
[quote=SGT Rock;399360]
I think if the guides are going to list a business that specializes in hikers - they ought to include 'em all unless they abuse hikers.
=========================================
...and even then they should be included, but possibly with a cautionary note.
'Slogger
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 15:31
Note to F.D. In regards to your editing of my post above (#92), there was no "name calling" on my part in my original comment. My post was in direct respose to a post by Warren Doyle in which he falsely accused me of being responsible for Uncle Johnny's getting pulled from the Companion. In my post, I made it very clear that this was purely an editorial decision by the ATC and ALDHA and not mine, as I had no say in the editorial process of that book at the time.....or now, for that matter. Had I voiced complaints about his place? Well, sure, along with scores of other folks. I was further commenting on Mr. Doyle's contention that we'd have "heard the end" of this unfortunate matter, if it wasn't for me. This contention was also false.
But for F.D. to both poorly re-write my post, and to then say that the post needed to be re-written due to "name calling" on my part is completely untrue. By selectively editing my post and removing my references to Mr. Doyle's false statement, it also implies it that I'm interested in furthering this discussion, despite the fact that both Miss Janet and website administrators have made it clear they want it to go away.
My above post was made SOLELY as a response to a false and incorrect statement about myself made by another poster, and while I'm glad to see that F.D. dispatched that post to the trash, I can't say I'm happy with her selective editing of my own...... telling another contributor that what they've written about you is a falsehood is hardly "name calling", F.D. In other words, pointing out that someone is a dissembler is not a crime...... Or to put it really simply, calling out a liar for what he is, is a statement of fact, and not mere "name calling." Pity you can't distinguish between the two.
The editing privileges taken by moderators are not only increasing here at WB, but they are often questionable. I respectively suggest that in future, this editorial recourse be applied with a scalpel and not a trowel.
Lasltly, I agree entirely with Rock when he says that places that abuse hikers can expect to be removed from hiker guides. And this is PRECISELY what happened in Erwin, even if there are some who refuse to acknowledge this.
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 15:32
am i missing something? this isn't the straight-forward forum, and i didn't call anyone a name; so why was i edited, fd?
no explanation needed. she GOTS the POWER baby!:eek:
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 15:33
warren didn't NAME you.
the goat
08-30-2007, 15:33
no explanation needed. she GOTS the POWER baby!:eek:
this is starting to be like trying to surf the 'net in china.:-?
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 15:35
It was crystal clear who he was referring to, Wolf.
This would be patently obvious if F.D. restored his original comment! Then people could judge it......and its falseness.....for themselves.
I would have no objection. :rolleyes:
SGT Rock
08-30-2007, 15:38
Can't restore content once edited that way. That is one reason I hate to snip people's comments.
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 15:39
time to snip off the snipper's snipper:D
the goat
08-30-2007, 15:47
seriously, what happened was:
1.) warren made a veiled attempt to insult jack, in which he said: "uncle johnny made the mistake of offending a notorious internet bully/intimidator"; and then he said: "it will never end".
2.) i said (word-for-word): "nor will your poorly-veiled attempts to insult jack, i suppose".
3.) FD deleted my & other posts.
4.) i am still sitting here confused why my post (if any for that matter) was deleted.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-30-2007, 15:47
First, Dino has no problem with somone taking snippers.
Second, if I remove a comment, I must remove the comments that respond to that comment. Goat did not call anyone a name, but he quoted a removed comment and responded to it. His comment would not have made sense without knowing what was said.
JT, I felt you made some valid points and did not want those to be lost. However, since I removed the obvious reference to you, I edited your response to the removed reference.
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 15:51
Y'all take this stuff WAYYY to seriously. go hikin' for crissakes. i'm goin' runnin'.:)
the goat
08-30-2007, 15:51
i'm goin' runnin'.:)
me too. peace out ya'll.:)
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 15:55
You're missing the point, F.D.: My entire post was written in the first place BECAUSE of the reference. By removing Mr. Doyle's comment, and re-writing my words in which I directly refuted Mr. Doyle's comment, you basically rendered my whole post unnecessary....anyone reading it would wonder what I was talking about.
And you didn't address my above contention that your editing my post on the grounds that I was "name calling" was completely uncalled for. I was merely attempting to tell WB readers that what another poster had sent along was a manifestly false personal attack. Pointing out false statements made by liars is hardly "name calling." I'd prefer to see it as house-keeping. Thank you for doing your bit to toss out the trash, but I'd appreciate it if you hadn't tarred me with the same breath. The decision in regards to the Erwin situation was not made by me, and anyone who says or implies otherwise is a liar, period.
Not "name calling", ma'am. Just the facts.
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 15:57
I'm too tired to run. Think I'll walk to 5-Olde and see if the Sox can actually win one in New York for a change. :D
The Weasel
08-30-2007, 15:58
Thoughts, perhaps wrong, but valid withal:
1) This thread no longer serves a purpose, and might well die out.
2) "Personal attacks" aren't allowed, under the "Useage [sic] Agreement." Someone has to decide what's covered, and the Mods and Admins are them.
3) Our Mods and Admins are pretty loosey goosey about what's over the line. Let's leave them alone when we disagree, or at least take it private.
4) That said, I sort of wish that the posts hadn't been deleted.
5) THAT said, I sort of think even more so that Janet's request to end this whole thing is a good idea. Perhaps those who like her will do so, and perhaps those who don't will help calm this down, for John's benefit. Perhaps. Perhaps not.
6) Those who wish to help either (or both) do no favor by continuing the flaming.
The Weasel
SGT Rock
08-30-2007, 15:59
Actually I think this thread's point was the Erwin center update. I think a simple prune back of all the "extra" is best.
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 16:03
I sort of agree with Weasel (surprise!!) except for one thing......
There has been a goodsized increase in the ammount of editorial moderating on WB lately, and some of it has indeed been questionable. It is eminently proper to discuss this in public, so that others can give their own opinions on the subject.
Weasel is indeed correct when he talks about "personal attacks."
And that's why I was upset. NOT only was my post re-written poorly, but the grounds for doing so were non-existent. All I was trying to do was point out taht another poster was passing along falsehoods. Likewise, I can't recall anything unworthy or mean about Goat's coment, also deleted.
In short, the whole editorial thing here is starting to concern people....talking about this on a public forum is, in my opinion, a good thing.
I'm too tired to run. Think I'll walk to 5-Olde and see if the Sox can actually win one in New York for a change. :D
5-0 Yanks with 2 out in the ninth! :(
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 16:04
Hmmm. Maybe I'll stay in the Library! Looks like it's gonna be a long September!
Lone Wolf
08-30-2007, 16:10
I'm too tired to run. Think I'll walk to 5-Olde and see if the Sox can actually win one in New York for a change. :D
actually i'm too tired too. rock wore me out the last few days. guess i'll hit dot's and the baja for weight lifting instead.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-30-2007, 16:11
Jack, Warren's reason for the edit is "Name calling'. Your reason and Goat's reason is "response to name-calling'. I did not say either of you engaged in name calling. Neither of you did.
Jack, do you want me to remove the rest of your post? I felt it addressed the question of why Uncle Johnny's hostel was left out of the ALDHA Companion - not the problems between Janet and Johnny (which Janet has made clear she wants dropped from discussion).
Jack Tarlin
08-30-2007, 16:23
Nope. I don't want you to remove much at all, F.D..
You just said my post was edited because of my "response to name-calling."
Um, excuse me, is this now a crime? If someone on a Forum says something personal about me that is nasty, injurious, malicious, and false,and intentionally hurtful, are you telling me I'm not supposed to consider responding to it?? Or that forget about considering a reply.....I won't even be PERMITTED one! And that if I have the temerity to defend myself and call out another writer for posting falsehoods, then I get punished equally with him?
Whazzup with that??
And your editing DID NOT permit me to fully address the facts, by the way the salient fact being that John's omission from the book was an editorial decision made at the highest level by ALDHA and ATC people, and not by me. This is precisely what you DID NOT let me get across, hence my displeasure with your heavy-handed editing.
Bottom line is that if peole get lied about here, F.D., they're gonna be tempted to imediately write back and defend themselves. If this option is denied them, they're gonna be unhappy.
P.S. Speaking of lies and liars, we can settle this once and for all: I invite Mr. Doyle to present evidence to support the accusation he made in his original post. If he can't immediately produce proof that getting and keeping this establishment out of the Thru-Hikers Companion was all my doing or mny decision, then he should publicly retract his original comment, admit its falsehood, and apologise for it.
Can't exactly say I'm holding my breath on this one, tho.
I'll walk to 5-Olde and see if the Sox can actually win one in New York for a change. :D http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=399396)
5-0 Yanks with 2 out in the ninth!
Who gives a da*n! There are only 2 seasons in a year.
1. Football and
2. The Void
SGT Rock
08-30-2007, 16:30
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