View Full Version : Horse Poop
This concerns the hiking trails in the Kennesaw Mountian Battlefield Park, in Marietta, GA. A lot of Wbers use the park for training etc. This is a letter to the editor of the Atlanta Journal, and the Marietta Daily Journal I wrote this afternoon. If any one here in the Atlanta area uses the Park, you may want to respond to the Park Officials.
The Federal government just spent a lot of money building a horse/pedestrian bridge across John Ward Creek, in the Southern end of the Kennesaw Mountain Battlefield Park. Prior to this bridge, there was a smaller foot bridge to handle the pedestrians, and the horses had to ford the creek. On the second day, it opened, the bridge was covered in horse manure. The Park has scheduled the old bridge to be torn down soon, I think the old bridge should stay, so pedestrians can have a clean place to walk, until a solution is reached on how the horse owners, who use this bridge, are going to clean up their mess. Those who agree, please contact The Kennesaw Park at 770-427-4686. And also contact your Congressman.
Appalachian Tater
08-23-2007, 15:22
That's another good reason to filter water. Horse poop.
Footslogger
08-23-2007, 15:29
I remember dodging a lot of horse biscuits in the Smokeys ...
'Slogger
Footslogger,
Did you notice lots of horse manure in your Winds trip? That (and the Bob) seems to be a horseman's paradise!
Footslogger
08-23-2007, 15:34
Footslogger,
Did you notice lots of horse manure in your Winds trip? That (and the Bob) seems to be a horseman's paradise!
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Sure did ...pretty much everywhere you looked. Should have guessed it though when we saw 3 - 4 huge horse trailers parked at the trailhead.
'Slogger
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Sure did ...pretty much everywhere you looked. Should have guessed it though when we saw 3 - 4 huge horse trailers parked at the trailhead.
'Slogger
Yep..more horsepackers than hikers there. Cirque of the Towes is a climbing mecca..but overall it is "dodge the poop" while admiring the awesome scenery.
Footslogger
08-23-2007, 15:46
Yep..more horsepackers than hikers there. Cirque of the Towes is a climbing mecca..but overall it is "dodge the poop" while admiring the awesome scenery.
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On a bright note, as it relates to horse poop (or maybe not) ... I ended up staying at Mollies Ridge along with some hores riders. They cooked up a huge batch of sausage/onions/peppers and shared it with the hikers.
So ...horse poop can be a good sign !!
'Slogger
Personally I don't mind dodging horse poop. I don't mind sharing the occasional trail, and I certainly don't mind sharing a bridge. I am not a horse person but I see them as one of those things that should be encouraged just like hiking, cross country skiing, cycling, paddling, sailing etc. I do not put them in the same league as ATVs and Snowmobiles and Powerboats. I don't mind sharing some trails and rivers with those either, I think they should be less encouraged, along with all motor vehicles. But too often we are opposed to other activities simply because its not what we do, like the way I am opposed to hiking sticks. I might look for reasons why they should be prohibited, even when there are no reasons. We should be careful about what our real motives are, even when there might be reasons.
"Damn all motives, ulterior ones, and others."
- Boris Pasternak, 'Dr. Zhivago'
===================================
On a bright note, as it relates to horse poop (or maybe not) ... I ended up staying at Mollies Ridge along with some hores riders. They cooked up a huge batch of sausage/onions/peppers and shared it with the hikers.
So ...horse poop can be a good sign !!
'SloggerWhen out skiing or hiking when I come across a snowmobiler or ATVer I always ask for a beer. Good way to break the ice. ;)
The Weasel
08-23-2007, 17:55
That's another good reason to filter water. Horse poop.
No joke: Came to Apple Orchard Shelter in GSMNP in '00 to get badly need water, found the entire spring fouled with horse apples in the water.
The Weasel
Personally I don't mind dodging horse poop
Well, I am not against horses in the backcountry (you have to be tolerant out west of horsepackers), but I'd be lying if I said I don't mind dodging horse poop. :D
In all seriousness, I really find horsepackers to be nice, friendly, yada yada yada.
But poop is still poop. ;)
Two Speed
08-23-2007, 18:05
Yeah, familiar with that problem at KeMo. I wonder if the intellectually challenged part of the horse crowd has considered that pedestrian bridges ain't built to accomodate livestock loads. The bridge'll take the abuse for a while, then there's a good chance horse & rider will take an ugly fall.
Frankly, come the day I'll probably have more sympathy for the horse than the rider. :cool:
I'd like to see commercial packers use horse diapers, such as they use in cities, which would have to be dumped well off trail.
No joke: Came to Apple Orchard Shelter in GSMNP in '00 to get badly need water, found the entire spring fouled with horse apples in the water.
The WeaselThat can't be good.
I don't mind shoveling, gardening with it.
I might even try using some for fuel.
But that can't be good.
Still, a few bad horse apples don't spoil the whole bushel.
I'd like to see commercial packers use horse diapers, such as they use in cities, which would have to be dumped well off trail.I'm not an expert but I think its better spread around. I would be concerned around water sources, but otherwise no. Then again I am use to pretty low traffic hiking. We have horses on our trail in our park in the city, and it isn't that bad, but its a pretty big park and a pretty small city.
Pedaling Fool
08-23-2007, 18:58
Are the horses responsible for creating those deep narrow gullies at various points throughout GSMNP?
shelterbuilder
08-23-2007, 20:17
Personally I don't mind dodging horse poop. I don't mind sharing the occasional trail, and I certainly don't mind sharing a bridge. I am not a horse person but I see them as one of those things that should be encouraged just like hiking, cross country skiing, cycling, paddling, sailing etc. I do not put them in the same league as ATVs and Snowmobiles and Powerboats. I don't mind sharing some trails and rivers with those either, I think they should be less encouraged, along with all motor vehicles. But too often we are opposed to other activities simply because its not what we do, like the way I am opposed to hiking sticks. I might look for reasons why they should be prohibited....
I have problems with horses and hikers sharing the same trail, and for very practical reasons. Horses can cause EXTREME trail erosion. The AT, for instance, was never designed as a hardened trail. Hundreds of hikers walking over a section of the trail will cause a certain amount of erosion, but one horse (weighing over 1,000 pounds and wearing metal shoes) will chew up that same section of trail in no time. In Pa., on the south side of the mountain from Eagle's Nest shelter, there is a campground that caters to the horse trade. There are hardened roads that can be ridden by horse and rider and the horses will do little damage here. But some of these folks don't understand how much damage they do when they ride onto the footpath. And I've seen groups larger than 100, some of whom become beligerent when you try to explain that, after they go through, the trail will look like a rototiller was used on the footpath.
The poop I could live with, the trail damage breaks my heart - and my back.:(
Tennessee Viking
08-23-2007, 21:56
Bear Branch to Bitter End is another. Unaka Mountain.
The Weasel
08-23-2007, 23:04
That can't be good.
I don't mind shoveling, gardening with it.
I might even try using some for fuel.
But that can't be good.
Still, a few bad horse apples don't spoil the whole bushel.
Ummm......they do when they fill the spring.
The Weasel
CaptChaos
08-23-2007, 23:12
Hello:
You do not know horse crap until you come and visit the Mammoth Cave National Park here in KY. I no longer hike the trails due to it being so bad. they don't clean it up, the trails have been turned to slush with horse crap and horse urine. I have been hiking the trails for the last 20 years here and I don't go anymore due to the horse crap on the trails.
Capt Chaos
Bowling Green, KY USA:(
Appalachian Tater
08-24-2007, 01:53
Is the horse crap worse than the mud in northern New England?
Grumpy Ol' Pops
08-24-2007, 09:02
As an interesting aside to this discussion, a nature show I watched a few weeks ago iterated that one horse can produce an average of 25 POUNDS of poop each day. Let's hope the number of horses on our trails isn't too great!
Just think of it as recycled grass. And if you're biking, ride w/glasses on and mouth closed.
max patch
08-24-2007, 11:12
Lets get this thread back on topic.
Thats some bridge, isn't it!
We already share 99.9% of the loop trail with horses, so I can't get excited about having a separate bridge for walkers/runners. Although I do see your point since the original bridge is still standing. Liability issues, probably.
I hope I'm not wrong, but I really don't see this as a big issue. I'll concede that I may have a different opinion if I had seen the bridge in the condition you described.
The bridge was clean enough to eat off as of 9:00 am today.
I think if I was going to pick a fight with the Park, I'd direct my efforts to having the water fountain near Kolb Farm repaired.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 11:23
When you find a spring with a reasonably good flow fouled by horse apples - you clean out the srping making sure to remove all the offending material and move it downsteam. Wait 20 minutes for the spring to clean out any residue and then treat to be sure.
For many years I've tried to avoid hiking in areas where horses are allowed, but realize this isn't possible on the AT. Horses are one of the reasons I've not done that much hiking / backpacking on the AT though I've done a considerable amount of backpacking and hiking in my lifetime. The other reason is crowds. I prefer solitude in the woods.
Max, yes they cleaned up the bridge. If they (horse owners) will keep it clean there will not be a problem. Only time will tell. I spent 20 minutes yesterday on the phone with the Park Ranger, he is going to od what he can to let the horse owners know it is their responsibility to clean up their mess.
BTW, we must have just missed each other this morning. I crossed the bridge NB around 8:20, and SB around 9:00am. I hope to meet you out there some day
VerticalClimb22k
08-24-2007, 11:41
I can think of few things worse that losing a shoe to the stinky dirty (as my son calls it)
max patch
08-29-2007, 10:38
The old bridge is about 2/3 removed.
max patch
08-31-2007, 07:46
Jesse,
Your letter to the ed was printed in todays paper.
-The horse riders seem to have lots of pull with both the National Park and the National Forest Service. They pretty much have free reign around here, in the souther Appalachians. Horses are high-impact on the trail systems, many times their camps are left trashy, and then there is the poop. I've never seen them held accountable by the Park Fuzz. What gives?
There was a small amount of poop on the bridge this morning. I took a picture then took a stick and removed it. Every time I see it, I am sending an e-mail to the Park Ranger, and my Congressman.
Footslogger
08-31-2007, 22:17
Horse Poop ?? ...maybe not, but this thread gave me cause to remember some carefully placed animal excrement we encountered on our recent section hike in Maine - just north of Rangeley.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/0/Poop.JPG (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=18346&original=1&c=553)
Seemed like a very inconsiderate place to deposit poop !!
'Slogger
birdygal
09-02-2007, 23:05
We hike and ride on the Pinhoti trail that runs by our home the only destruction to the trails I have seen is by ATV's which are not supposed to be allowed at all in that section but there are plenty of tracks although I don't think we get alot of traffic either I only came across one person in the many times My husband and I have been on it in the 20 mile section which they were on a mountain bike.
Two Speed
09-09-2007, 11:34
. . . I think if I was going to pick a fight with the Park, I'd direct my efforts to having the water fountain near Kolb Farm repaired.Repaired as of this morning.
While I'm bumping this thread up, how many of ya'll would be interested in getting a regularly scheduled hike going at the Battlefield? I'm thinking something moderate, about an hour or two every Sunday morning.