View Full Version : internal or external frame???
which do you use, internal or external for the AT or any hike.
JimSproul
11-02-2003, 14:23
I am an old guy and have been using an external for 35+ years. I have tried two different internals which were comfortable when adjusted correctly (which takes some time and throught), but I just could not get by the heat. I generate a bunch of heat, huffing and puffing up a trail. Even at high altitudes (above 8,000), I need the more cooling effect on my back.
I have used Jansports for a long time but plan to upgrade to Kelty's "thru Hiker" suspension. Under weight I have not found any bag as comfortable. Your can get a Kelty Continental 4800 for about $80 at campmor.com. You will pay a eight price since they come in at about 7 lbs 4 oz (2 lbs more than my Jansport)
a friend of mine said externals bounce around a lot when u move to fast or go down hill.
how about a selection for non-frame packs like the Gearskin?
I have an external pack and although it does shift a little bit, I would not say that it bounces around a lot. So far I like it and I find that if I arch my shoulders back, I can get a great air flow between my back and the pack. Boy, I sure do like that. My pack is a Kelty Trekker 3900 ST and you can pick it up at Campmor for 90 dollars on sale. It weighs in around 5 1/2 #'s.
I use the womans kelty tioga 4200 external frame. Had it now for about two years and its the best pack I have ever owned.
My first pack was also an external, camptrails explorer 4600. I traded it in for the kelty to save 1.5 pounds.
Can't say that I have tested an internal frame on the trail, but I have tried many on just for piece of mind, but just can't find the right feel, fit, and versatility as with an external.
Maybe it is just me but internal frames make me feel like I am hauling a sack of flour on my back.
Jester2000
11-25-2003, 19:47
I have an internal and an external frame. I am more likely to wear the external frame on flatter, less scrambly hikes or when it is very hot. I tend to use my internal where I'd actually have to use my hands, scramble, or anyplace (Mahousuc Notch!) where balance is important and I don't want to screw with my center of gravity. Oh, and when it's not so hot.
Both types of packs are pretty well engineered, you'd think, so if it's sliding around or uncomfortable it may just be mis-fitted or not the right size pack for you.
If I every do the whole trail again, I'd think about wearing my internal in the beginning (GA,NC,TN, part of VA), switching to my external for the middle (N. VA,WV,PA,NJ,NY,CT,MA) and then switching BACK to internal for the end.
But that's 'cause I've already got the gear. I wouldn't go out and buy 2 packs at once.
My next pack is the ULA P1, which is actually a frameless pack. I currently have a Xframe, and really like it comfort wise, but as it weighs 5Lbs, and holds over 5,000 ci, it no longer fills my needs. I am now using my old frameless pack (a Brisbane by Kelty, no longer made) but it is a bit tight; I can carry 4 days of food but have no room for any more.
Another option would be to keep using the Brisbane & get a smaller sleeping bag as that takes up about 55% of the space in my pack.
Will keep the frame pack for winter camping cause I can get as much clothing as I may need it it.
Good poll, thanks.
Doctari.
The Wicked Lobstah
12-08-2003, 10:22
Neither, frameless. Love it.
Former Easy
12-16-2003, 20:52
I use a Gregory Shasta 2002 model which is 6 pounds off the shelf, the models before 2002 were 7 pounds.
My pack weighs 4 1/2 after modifications.
1) I don't use the lid
2) cut excess strapping
3) cut out sleeping bag divider
4) hacked (cut up) sealing area on top theres 2 layers I hacked second (you have to have this pack or simular to know what I mean)
This pack is awesome carrying 35 pounds which I do. Everything and I mean everything fits inside. Nothing on the outside of this pack except my Nalgene's.
The suspension system is awesome, I would rather have 35 pounds riding on my hips that 25 pounds hanging on my shoulders any day. I tried a Go Lite with 25 pounds for a day 10 miles and hated the feeling on my shoulders. The only drawback to this pack is its off the shelf weight, but with a few mods this pack is awesome. I am considering cutting out the sleeping bag compartment zipper and permanantly sewing this shut, this will also save a few ounces. If you want everthing inside your pack and not hanging outside like a gypsy, this is the pack for you.
I've put a bunch of miles on a ULA Zenith (uses a Z-rest as a partial frame) and like it a lot. I've found it more comfortable for loads under 25 lbs than my small mountaineering pack. I've also got a big, huge Serratus Condor, which is now relegated to winter trips, where I barely fill it half way.
The Zenith is showing somewhere, but ULA fixed a bunch of it. I'm hoping to get another 3000 miles of hiking out of it before it retires, but it might not make it. When it fails, I'll buy another pack from ULA, although the Zenith may be discontinued by then.
RagingHampster
12-17-2003, 11:19
External Frame!!
Frame/Suspension of CampTrails Adjustable III w/OR Advanced Hydroseal drybags lashed on (Project almost finished!).
trailsnail
12-17-2003, 11:39
I've always used an external frame pack. I like the way it rides and having the ability to organize and access my gear.
My biggest complaint: It squeaks and creaks when I hike. My daughter's internal frame pack doesn't do that.
Is it just my pack?
how about a selection for non-frame packs like the Gearskin?
### Yep! Using mine for a winter hike starting this Saturday, Fontana south to Springer (I hope) for New Year's Eve.....
Rain Man
12-17-2003, 14:27
I've always used an external frame pack. ... My biggest complaint: It squeaks and creaks when I hike. My daughter's internal frame pack doesn't do that. Is it just my pack?
Nope, not just yours. I've read several posts saying that is common of external frame packs. Sorry!
Blue Jay
12-17-2003, 14:34
My biggest complaint: It squeaks and creaks when I hike. My daughter's internal frame pack doesn't do that.
Is it just my pack?
Wrap some duct tape around any joints and/or pins. That quiets them down.
trailsnail
12-17-2003, 22:18
Thanks, I'll try some duct tape on the joints.
Trailsnail
Wrap some duct tape around any joints and/or pins. That quiets them down.
OR you could get an Internal pack!
i use an internal pack after a couple of bad experiences with external frame packs....shifting, generally not fitting well.
internal for me, ALWAYS!
hey BLUEJAY, can you put duct tape on my knees to hold down the creaking & squeeking? hehehehehehehe ;)
see ya'll on the trail in 2004! :D
papa john
02-07-2004, 19:14
I still remember the first time I ever went backpacking was the day I started out at the AT approach trail. We were using internal frame packs and as we hiked up to Springer that wet Sunday morning, I can still see the weekenders hiking back down with their external frame packs with pack covers on. They looked like they were carrying a full-sized mattresses on their backs!
Never owned an external frame. What makes then so heavy? The frame or the bag? I like the idea of an external frame pack, just can't get past the weight issue.
Kozmic Zian
02-19-2004, 13:54
Yea.....Backpacks. Infernal or External. Well, I've been hiking since Boy Scouts (40years) off and on, with External Backpacks, but have tried both. 'Infernals have their place, like on an approach, with a two/three day max, load. Maybe, climbing or some other hiking thing, but not distance backpacking. Internals rest right on your back. No air, arrrrgh! Maybe in winter. Not on AT in summer. There is nothing like arching your back when you turn sideways to the wind to cool your back with an external. Forget about it w/ internal....you gotta' down pack to cool off. Slows you down. I never had any problems with an external shifting around, in fact the frame being stiff, allows you to cinch down on everything alot more than you can with an internal. You can get that sucker so tight(if you want)it dosen't move at all! As far as weight goes, most of the internals I see('cept for the new ultra-lites, go-lites, etc.)weigh alot more than my Kelty(4.5 lbs). I'm not a gear grinder. I like light weight within reason. Comfort, also within reason. It's a delicate balance of trade-offs, gear is. There is nothing more comfortable than a good, well designed, light-weight external frame pack. There's not too many weigh less than 5lbs. You see guys going up The Trail with all kinds o' s*** hanging off of their packs. My Kelty holds it all inside, nothing hangs, makes it all rather neat and organized. The frame helps keep everything in proper relationship to everything else. The 'bottom pocket' makes Bag access a breeze. Four side pockets for essentials, and a big back pocket for maps and flat things. Old Dick Kelty has paid his dues and done his homework....For the money(think I paid 80.00$ for this one in '99) you can't beat 'um. Plus, Kelty have an internal frame pack(rather 'spensive) that weighs less than 1 lb. Check 'um out.... www.kelty.com (http://www.kelty.com/). KZ@
__________________________________________________ ________________________
'The Pack Makes The Backpacker'......Hart, Sierra Club Books
Yeah... who needs a frame anyways? I love my Equinox Kathadin, though I don't know if I would trust the silnylon construction for 2000 miles I use it all the time on my short trips. I'd like to give it a try on a 2000 miler one day.
I consider that I have a virtual frame pack which is neither internal or external. :D :D
Tha Wookie
05-11-2004, 20:29
frames are for suckers
:jump
papa john
05-11-2004, 21:01
You know, not everybody has the same needs as you. Just because carrying a bag on your shoulders is right for YOU doesn't mean that everyone else is a sucker if they decide to do it differently.
gardenville
05-13-2004, 12:41
7oz - External, I make my own. It is a full size external using the Army Ruck design and the last one uses Titanium and Aluminum. Has a frame only weight of under 7oz. Yes, space fans, under 7oz. With the hip belt, shoulder straps and bag it should be under 16oz. This set-up is for hiking on the AT in warmer weather and a full pack weight of 22 pounds or less. The frame can carry much more weight, I don't. The bottom of this frame pushes away from my waist 4" to provide real air space between my back and the pack bag. Much cooler than most other external designs that leave very little or no air space between you and the pack. I am working on the Pack Bag and it will be about 2900cu inches plus side mesh pockets and a full back mesh pocket. These mesh pockets will add to the total pack size by ??. There are a couple pictures of the first two external frames I made, the heavy ones at 20oz and 8.9oz somewhere in the Gallery here, but not under my name.
cburnett
03-07-2005, 13:46
I hiked the AT last year with a Moonbow Gearskin.
no frame and uber comfortable
MoBeach42
12-02-2005, 08:56
I choose "internal" but I prefer a frameless - Granite Gear Virga
justusryans
12-02-2005, 09:08
i like external frame packs. sue me! :D
http://www.geocities.com/jimmywinn3/pic5.jpg
Amigi'sLastStand
06-04-2006, 20:25
I use a 22 years old Jasper external. I dont like internals at all. No air flow, my gear poking me in the back, if they are full and are one large space, they sag. Also, if you deep woods camp and hike ( no point to point trails like the AT ) I can take off the pack and use the frame to carry wood and waterbags strapped to the frame.
cowboybsw
08-23-2007, 11:41
I have all three, external Kelty, internal Kelty, and frameless Fanatic Fringe. I prefer either the external or frameless. Not a big internal fan. my sleeping pad provides all the frame needed for the ultralight and if I ever carry more than that I like the comfort of the external. My external frame pack only weights 4lb 9oz which is competitive if not better than most internals, it is also more comfortable, cooler, and can carry heavier loads better if I don't want to resupply all the time. The frameless is sweet too though, definately my favorite. I just love going light, but as was mentioned earlier, I don't know that I would want to attempt a long distance hike with it, though the material is tough and I have had mine a long time with no probs I don't think I would want to be that careful with my pack all that way, at times I am sure I would want to just drop it after a long day of hiking.
The Weasel
08-23-2007, 12:00
Poll should be changed to reflect that sometimes most of us different packs for different kinds of hikes, and should include pack bags without support stays.
I use a Jansport K2 (actually designed by Skip Yowell personally, he told me at the LA Book Fair this year!) with the hinged semi-rigid hip suspension system. I've carried as much as 80# for distance with this pack (not happily, but had to), and since it literally sits on your pelvis, it has most of the advantages of an internal (not much sway) while all of the advantages of an external (size, coolness, etc). But when I am by myself, trying (pant!) to move fast, I will go to an internal, if the weather is right. When I'm really trying to move fast and light, I'll go to a pack bag, which doesn't count even as an internal (e.g. GoLite).
The Weasel
I've been using an Osprey 65 internal. It doens't have the usual internal frame problem of airflow because of the AirCore suspension. In winter, I can store stuff in this area. I use it also for dayhikes. I strap the bottom with the bag straps to close off most of the lower inside area to keep everything from sinking to bottom. My brother who has a very sweaty back, uses another Osprey (Stratos?) with same AirCore suspension.... and he loves it also. On lots of summer hikes, neither of us every had a hot back problem.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-24-2007, 12:56
He-dino prefers an external frame because it allows him to carry more weight comfortably (a need because she-dino has serious limits to what she can carry due to injuries) and because it allows air to get between him and his pack.
She-dino uses an internal frame pack designed for females that is used primarily by climbers. It keeps the weight up close and balanced and the adjustments allow the she-dino to conform to she-dino curves.
taildragger
08-24-2007, 13:07
What, no option for both, blasphemy.
I use my internal for when I need to carry more gear (its freaking huge and has good suspension). I still like my external for footing over the trail, where I'm not going to encounter anything class 3, deal with a lot of blowdowns. Its uber nice on hot days since its so far off my back. That being said, I can vent with my Gregory very nicely, but still not as nice as my old Peak 1
I have an old Peak One also... nice pack. The thing I liked most about the external frames is that the frame keeps the pack up off the ground when you set it down.
Whiskyjo
04-13-2008, 23:53
I have tried using an internal pack but just can't get use to the feeling after many years using an external. Id love to save some weight but my Gregoery Evolution has always pulled me thru.
Yeah... who needs a frame anyways? I love my Equinox Kathadin, though I don't know if I would trust the silnylon construction for 2000 miles I use it all the time on my short trips. I'd like to give it a try on a 2000 miler one day.
200 miler one day? Tha's haulin' ass... http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/MrGrover_uk/emoticons/bolt.gif
200 miler one day? Tha's haulin' ass... http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/MrGrover_uk/emoticons/bolt.gif
2000, too! :D
Use to use a Camptrails external back when 60-70lb was "normal" pack weight. I've never tried an internal frame type pack so I can't comment on those. Will be using a Jansport 'Carson' (4900 ci) external for my AT hike this year.
I use both. (not at the same time though.) :)
I like the ventilation of the external.
I just got an Osprey Atmos 65 so it may make my external obsolete.
I have a ULA internal as well.
Cherokee Bill
04-14-2008, 18:21
:rolleyes: For 20-years I used the same External Frame pack (Mt. Mckinnley). Then I got to the point where I was afraid of a thread/fabric failure due to age. So I purchased an Internal Frame pack. I have used it twice and hate it :mad: Soon as I can sell it I am going back to External frame packs;)
I have one internally framed pack, a new McHale 36LBP. Other than that I have three frameless packs. An MLD Zip, an MLD Revelation, and a ULA Conduit. All are great packs for the niche that they were designed and made for.
:rolleyes: For 20-years I used the same External Frame pack (Mt. Mckinnley). Then I got to the point where I was afraid of a thread/fabric failure due to age. So I purchased an Internal Frame pack. I have used it twice and hate it :mad: Soon as I can sell it I am going back to External frame packs;)
What specifically did you hate about it? I'm still shopping around for my first pack and am trying to get all the internal vs. external pros/cons.
Morpheus
04-19-2008, 20:07
The Internals may be a bit hotter in warmer months, but well worth a better center of gravity. The pack weight feels better distributed and you don't loose balance on sketchy footing because of weight shift/swinging you get with most externals.
I started backpacking with a Jansport external then switched to a internal Lowe Contour IV. I also use a Dana Big Sky for day/ overnights. I'm sold on internals, but to each his own.
Internals and frameless packs are very hot on the back. No circulation or evaporation at all. In summer, on the AT, you can cook dinner on your back. That is too hot. When will someone develop a very small, lightweight, spacer frame that can be placed between an ultralight backpack and ones back. Should be simple given today's high tech, lightweight materials. There is a market for such a thing.